 When do you need to pull this to the target? Should I get sick? All right Yeah, right Amber are you here you ready? Well, it looks like you're probably pretty close to being ready So I'm gonna call the meeting at the s-extinction City Council to order for September 27th Regina are there any addition agenda additions or changes? I do not have any Any from council? No? Great seeing none We don't need to approve the agenda. So we'll move on to public to be heard This is a portion of the meeting where members of the public can bring comments or concerns to the board For items that are not on the agenda. There is no one here in the room So I will go right to zoom and ask if there's anybody Attending on zoom that has anything they'd like to share or ask the board Please raise your hand on zoom I don't see anybody So we will move on to the first business item Discussion strategic planning updates and it looks like we have Ashley here Hello Really We use to move forward with our different projects and activities that we have throughout the next five years This project started this month and we'll continue through February 2024 And so this month I have been working with future IQ to start working and doing the pre-planning of the project We have been working on establishing the steering committee and their monthly meetings We've been doing the timeline for the project's launch and for some of the bigger projects coming up within the project and then we've been Starting gathering information through some interviews and some of the reports that we've done over the years I've also listed out some of the upcoming dates That you guys should all be aware of and have on your calendar. Um, these are the bigger projects and activities that we have within the project through December But this is not all of the engagement activities that we have. These are just some of the bigger ones The first is the launch of the strategic plan, which will be october 6 This will we will launch the community survey that will run through the end of october This will also launch the project portal, which will be the website where you can gain Any information about the strategic planning process? It'll have data from our surveys and our activities that we do It'll have reports that future IQ will prepare for us And then we'll be a place where people can find All the information that they need to know about the strategic plan And then lastly, we'll be advertising obviously the project through the sx reporter our website front porch forum and our facebook page The next event is the pumpkin plaza that we're going to participate in this We're going to seek community feedback at that event and it will be facilitated by the city staff and the steering committee The next big thing is the think tank workshop. This will be a two-day workshop beginning the week of october 30 We don't have a date for sure, but it'll be that week Future IQ will be facilitating this two-day workshop during that week The next thing is the train hop We'll be asking again for community feedback at that time And that will be facilitated by the city staff and the steering committee And then the next thing for future IQ is the next workshop, which will be in december that week of december 4th And future IQ will facilitate this workshop We obviously we don't have final dates on the two workshops yet, but those will be coming out Over the next few weeks once we have those dates kind of finalized and where that's going to be in the times for that And then there'll obviously be some more activities going on in january and february, but that's still a ways out there That's the next phase of the project within the planning with future IQ So very brief overview of what we've been doing and working on with the strategic plan And if you have any questions or want me to clarify anything i'm happy to do that Any questions comments from council? Looks great It's underway Um Actually just out of curiosity All these events great. I'm just curious about whether or not Feedback or input from the community Will be somehow available on a continuous basis or is that strictly going to happen through Either an event or a facilitated You know, uh event with the with residents how yeah, sorry Yeah, just in case you know Let's just say somebody were to participate or maybe they ran into us at one of these particular events But they wanted to give feedback later on is there an emails or another way that they can communicate in order to give feedback During this process Yeah, so obviously we're wanting everybody to take the survey as much as so there'll be this initial survey And then there'll be another survey later on as well So there's two community surveys And then there'll be some opportunities that i'm creating for myself Regina and the council and the steering committee to be out in the community at different already Free worked activities. So if somebody in the community is having a meeting that we can go and attend and get the feedback from Short little bits of feedback Is what we're looking for for that obviously But yes, we'll have many opportunities and if on our On the project portal, there's an opportunity for people to sign up for Emails to get updates on what's happening within this strategic planning process And there'll be other opportunities on the website for them to give feedback You're welcome Sounds great I appreciate the update. I don't think we have anything else Excited about excited that this is underway and looking forward to participating Thank you so much Thank you Ashley. Thanks Ashley all right I be discussion of 2025 annual meeting date So just bringing up the packet memo here for you Oh, you know what excuse me. Yeah, I apologize. I did not ask for a public input on that item So we'll go back one for a second. Is there anyone There's no one in the room Is there anyone on zoom that had any questions or comments related to the strategic planning item we just discussed I'm not seeing any hands on zoom so One more time. Is there anyone that wants to offer any comment on that portion? And it doesn't look like it. So sorry. Would you know we'll move on to 5b? Thanks Okay, so this conversation is um Just no action needed tonight. Just a discussion and thoughts concerns pros cons about the Potential option of moving the annual meeting in 2025 not 2024 in 2025 to the traditional vermont's town meeting day as opposed to the April day that The village has used and the school district is Considering this move and have decided to put the question to the voters in 2024 About making that adjustment in the 2025 annual meeting If folks recall We asked the voters last april to Contemplate a tar charter change amendment in the city charter that would allow the council to set that annual meeting date as opposed to having to Ask the voters an entire year beforehand precisely what date that would be We're just going to have to play that Timing by ear over the next couple of months to see if the legislature takes up that charter change This legislative session and at what point they do that we may Find ourselves in april also asking the voters what the precise date is going to be in 2025 um So we'll sort of sort out the logistics of how that works one way or the other but um in terms of my perspectives on on the pros and the cons The I think the community has always wanted to maintain that one Voting day so if the school moves and we move the benefit of staying together is great um if mailing ballots remains what we do the opportunity to continue to share the cost of those ballots Can happen if we're talking about the same date um and Vermont league of cities and towns is really helpful at talking about the schedule of setting one up for town meeting day Not our day in april. So it just would be a big benefit from that perspective um One pond certainly is just that we have one more month to put the budget together. We have one more month of data of existing Actuals in the current year before putting the budget together Um, but I think in the big picture one month doesn't necessarily make or break any major decision making so um Yeah, so I think that's it. So this is on here just for Um opportunity for you folks to talk about um Your own thoughts about That's great. Thank you. I I think it's fantastic that we're getting to this point. Um a little sooner than I thought we would I think I think it's great. I think it'd be nice to have the whole community note in the same day And yeah, I'd There's That complex issue around improving the charter and everything else. So yeah, we'll have to see um and I think I mentioned before what that then does to backing up All those other dates with the public meetings and everything else, but overall, I think this is great I don't see any real cons to it Anyone else? So I'll say that since I ran and malin may have had a similar experience. I don't know but um Having run this last election cycle You would think it was the top issue on people's minds a lot of times because it came up so often People wanted this question like what wait, we're not doing this. Why aren't we doing this? Anyway, so From what I heard from Our constituents It seems to be a resounding yes that they would like to have it on the same day and on town meeting day So I'm all for this one That was my experience as well people would love to have it on the same day that all the other communities in Vermont It is exciting that day There's so much, you know the excitement around it So much general promotion around the election. Yeah, and then oh ours isn't happening Right. Yeah, so I assume we'll keep the polling place at the fairgrounds and I guess Regina has there been any conversation with CVE as to whether that would pose any problems for them or whether we should be Free to use that space in march as well Great question. I know we definitely we plan to continue to Um use that space. It seems like that was a big success Um, I have not talked with them. Um, and I don't believe susan has either about what Uh town meeting day would mean for them. So that's a great question that we can get sorted out Voters really liked that this year this past year going to the fairgrounds They really Good Andrew nothing. All right thrilled to see this happen. It's just about time Well, great. Let's keep on keep on keeping on to that goal and Is there anything else you needed for that? No, okay So, uh Public comment. Is there anyone on zoom that has any comments on that item? Now would be the time to raise your hand and offer them A few moments here for that to happen if there's anything anybody wants to share And I'm not seeing any so we'll move on to five c Which is discussion of amendments to the policy regarding city council meetings. Does this look too small? I guess it looks okay Um, okay, so, um, if folks remember when we had the council orientation back in May end of april may We identified two policies that really could use some updating The communications policy, which we finished in august and this was the second policy to really Think through more how these meetings run Who does what where the public can find the information? So elaine did lots of legwork on this. Thanks elaine for getting this updated And ashley and myself Have taken a look and updated it as well. So what you've got in the packet Is a draft document with some comments and flags of discussion items to think through There is no Immediate rush on this it doesn't need to be Adopted tonight if the direction is clear On where you want to go we can also make sure to get all those edits correctly incorporated and bring this forward on The next meeting in the consent agenda so Okay, so So right i wonder if we should just go by go through and see if there any comments section by section. Yeah, okay Elaine ashley virginia. Thank you for going through this Um, so I can go to the comments, but then let me know if anything comes earlier than this. Um, so This is section one c Um, and i'm sorry. I hate how the pdf is making these comments come up. I much prefer the other Sideway version. Um so, um emergency meetings, um I think before it said in order to set an emergency meeting there had to be the Call of the count three or more council members to make that happen. It seems like logistically it makes sense that The council and the manager is doing that and we would need to figure out if we had a quorum from everybody else so Uh, that seemed to make sense. I don't know if anybody has any comments on that Well, especially since section b special meetings those are called on held on the call of the president of the city manager, so yeah, like just consistency So you're saying to make them the same in the sense that you can't have the meeting with the quorum anyway, so And the difference for everyone listening is one day notice, you know special meetings are 48 hours notice emergency meetings are 24 hours In curiously we don't look it up, but I didn't think of this before but Is there A statutory difference required between those two things or we just declaring one versus the other So the special meeting, um the emergency meeting actually can be Warned without notice. That's that's the concept of it. It's the special meeting that has Uh, all right. I'm reading this. I'm reading it. Yeah, sorry Yeah So all of our regular meetings at minimum 48 hours notice when you get to the special meeting minimum 24 hour notice emergency just Yeah, this is real emergency if we and something needs to be called together right away and you don't have time to notice it Okay, and those three distinct things are spelled out express expressly in statute Okay Okay, uh, move on to the next comment unless anybody has something else along the way Regina just for you in case you want to make it easier at yourself If you close the bookmarks and then click on the chat box to the right On the right on the right rail to it. Yep. You click on that. It should open up Thank you. You're welcome. All right. I've lost my zoom window. So I'm not gonna be paying attention to that. I'll keep an eye. Get it out of the way though Okay, awesome. Thank you, Marcus Okay, next comment. Um, so this is on the warrant. So As it currently works right now you have your warrants on your consent agenda, but those are Uh checks that have already been cut um, so that it's a little bit of a False practice that you're approving it when it's already been done And if there was an issue with something on the warrant, uh, what you know Your it's too late to actually have any impact if something isn't correct on there Certainly if there was if it happened quick enough, we could stop a check Or we certainly could make any kind of internal corrections to make sure that doesn't happen again But from my perspective and just want to sort of lay out how we get to the warrant Just so folks are aware and understand what the process is getting up to that point um So Essentially big picture the council sets the budget um, and then uh for any Contracts or grants that are over 40 000 that comes your way for approval um Then when we get into the purchasing policy components of it, um in the accounts payable system Anything over 20 000 gets approval by me gets approval by jess She sees everything over a thousand dollars and gets approval by the All purchases get approval by the department heads so, um Then uh The co-fax system that we use for accounts payable Um, Cindy looks at every single one of those. She is the final approver for every item that goes through that whole process Um, and she looks at that on a daily basis um Then once we are prior to setting up that check run, uh, she runs the report Jess takes a look at that whole report That co-fax ends up feeding nemric. Nemric also has its own internal controls It will identify if there's any duplicates in there and spit out a report about that um and once Jess approves that Check run then it goes back through Cindy and she processes them and then the checks themselves are signed by Susan there your clerk um What Susan really is doing at the end there is she's sort of checking for things like check numbers Like is there a check number missing because that's an identification that perhaps there's a fraud someplace in the system where a check is coming out um, so That's the whole process of how we get to that to that system and then the It's coming to you folks after that the whole process is done and the check the checks are run um The suggestion the suggestion here is that we would still put it on your packet So everybody can still see and uh the transparency of the checks that are cut But it would be in the reading file as opposed to consent agenda Just to clarify the actual role there That makes sense to me And no changes without Okay, uh, moving on Appreciate the explanation sure Okay section three Um, did I miss did you want something something? Yeah, actually I have an Section two E Um, oh, there's a mention of a third location So in the it says the agenda is also posted to the city office to Lincoln brownout library and xxx Yeah personally I In thinking about this because it wasn't acknowledging a third location. I got a question that we need it. Yeah Um, I think here at city hall and at brown out perfectly logical But one of the things that I was thinking about in regards to this information was we're not putting this on to Facebook or social media. We do put this information into front porch form But we don't share it We don't share the meaning Nor do we share the agenda on our own facebook page. So i'm wondering whether or not And I don't know that that needs to be called out here But it was just one of the things that I I noted but uh personally I think To Lincoln and brown out were perfectly fine that We'll meet the third option Oh, you made instead of having three. Do we need three? We do need three locations and the third location used to be the town office so, um We've been wondering if ejrp makes sense if max market makes sense and so just curious if you folks have a thought or Idea of where that third physical location has to be and then you bring up a great point, which is a Where else can we should be do we want to think about posting it in a digital world as opposed to the physical location? and does it Statutorily doesn't matter if it's digital or if it's physical you have to have three physical locations. Um, and I'm pretty sure you have to be putting it on the website at this point Because my concern in thinking about again thinking about it because I know that there was a comment concerning max was the fact that max's While it's a perfectly fine Store, it's not the type of grocery store that I think is drawing in such Numbers Or the population entity of our community that I would say it's the most ideal there was a time And the grocery store was kind of one of your central locations in your community. I'm not sure max would be that So I'm a little concerned that It would fill the statutory requirement to put it there But I don't know that it's Reaching the people Yeah, I would probably go with EGRP for now. I'd hate to require any of our employees spend time on facebook as requirement I I think EGRP is a Trying to think of any other example around here I suppose if we fix up the clock tower the clock Um Sign at railroad in main. Um, we could also post it in there. Um, Which would give us an impetus to get that repaired. Um, What are you gonna say, Andrew? I was gonna say I would uh, I would propose that clock tower if it were repaired My only hesitancy with EGRP as compared to a max is EGRP is open at a much limited number of hours compared to max and so In terms of a walkthrough and flow as to where the people hang out It's not necessarily EGRP. Although EGRP has an external bulletin board Right and for the people who are going to EGRP That's generally kids With some parents, but yeah It's also a municipally owned property as opposed to a private business It feels like the third option it's going to be about filling the statutory need not necessarily What I would I'll just badly wear it and say the best possible location Oh, another possible place that gets a lot of traffic is the post office On the post office square and perhaps they would permit us to put Right and of course we're we're presuming that max would want to as well exactly that's what I'm saying Let's go for a municipal or a federal So why don't we put EGRP and and for the time being as a placeholder and maybe we can reach out to Both the post office and max if anybody else has any other options Of course, we can still post it across the street And in the bulletin board If that's possible Yeah, and this you know Certainly we have to do the three that doesn't mean we don't we can't do more right right if we wanted to post it Physically in more places. I will say logistically EGRP would certainly be helpful just in the sense of Ease of this office emails it to the staff and then they can post it Okay, you know what might also be nice is Well, I was going to say putting it in the senior center, but it's in the building Um, they do have a different entrance. We could email it to their contact and say yeah for your information It might be a nice addition for them to just be on the list and people to receive it. Um and you know Extending that to them Yeah, that's a good idea and we you know, we also email it out to um a variety of different folks I don't know who all those folks are but um, certainly media and um other outlets. So I'll take a look at that for sure forgive my lack of Knowledge on this but do we have I know we just talked about it for the strategic plan people can sign up to get information But do we have a system where people can hopped in to Receiving updates from the city we do right? Yes. So that is something we can Also publicize and say if you want to receive this on a regular basis and maybe that's something that can happen. Yep People can just be notified when documents are available like that. Um, they can also go to the website and look for them But they can also receive them passively That way maybe we could just let let them know Um Yeah, we could I was just thinking we could add that into this policy But I think actually there I think it's probably spelled out here at some point Elaine has that great suggestion to go back to this concept of a more simple Once we finalize this a much more simple just on the website If you're from the public, here's how you you know, here. So you engage with the board. Yes Yeah, so we could sort of put it there as a way to Put that as a permanent button on the front. Yeah, something like that so that people Sure Okay And maybe right next to a c-click fix link, you know up above the fold Okay, um Okay, this comment is a little bit off its target, but um, so this comment is about the pledge of allegiance. Um My where is that? Yeah So section three a one My understanding is uh, that hasn't been done here since covet or pre-covid times. Um, it's uh I think Certainly raises a equity and inclusion issue And just been sort of curious to see what some of the other communities are doing. So Um, I've only reached figured this out for four communities, but of them Uh, Heinzberg does not do the pledge before the select board meetings south burlington does wenewski does burlington does not An s success going back to it They also stopped during the pandemic stopped during covid. Yeah, they stopped Yeah, they do but they do it now No, i'm remembering back in my time there. Okay I mean, we've done it when i've been on the board, but we did stop. Um, I'm Perfectly happy to keep it off. Can you talk about what you mean by equity and inclusion issues regarding the pledge? um, I think just the their reference to god and whether everybody Aligns with that or doesn't align with that. Um, and there's It's been interesting just sorry thinking about this topic and um looking at various supreme court cases of of this and Mostly involved with schools and whether um students Need to adhere to saying the pledge or not And I hadn't realized before looking at this that that phrase was added in 1954 So it just was interesting to me. I assumed it had been part of it all along and not so For me, it's going back and looking at the history of it And reading about it. Um It was very much a tool for other reasons. Yes, and for that reason and a bunch of others And the whole idea around compelling speech as opposed to volunteering And its use for furthering certain religions over others and the questionable addition of the under god phrase and the reformatting of it for all of those reasons I think our I think we demonstrate every time we come and every time someone participates they're demonstrating their allegiance to the Form of government we enjoy in our country and By actually doing the work And that's why I do the work That's just my that's just my opinion. I think you've been doing great work without it and Um, yeah The exact reasons that you talk about or haven't brought that to Andy and I when we were having a meeting at one point time And that's when we had to stop because the most verbatim is what he had said so I mean, no, no, yeah section five Oh, sorry It feels like that belongs back on the previous page, right? Yeah The comments are showing up in this in the strange part. I think oh, this was still in the order of the agenda. Yeah, so Right now as your agenda reads Under the reading file you have the council member and manager comments that Just has felt a little bit awkward to me because it's we're not Reading file typically we're not talking about it, but we are talking about it So we could just pull that out as just a separate section of the agenda just like we do everything else That's just what that note means I I would be fine with that. I don't see a reason not to I'd like us to think about So for folks listening at home and for the council You know, we're slightly modifying our current. I would call this a slight modification and update of our current policy My hope for long term two to three years from now is that we've come up with We've had time to engage with the community and figure out and research A different way of handling these meetings and this interaction and this business For a number of different reasons so For instance, we talk about counselor comments and concerns or managers report. We talk about public to be heard Not for this policy right now, but you know, are there different ways we can Have conversations with the community as part of our gathering That fit statute that fit the process Do we have to be gaveled in for that? Do we not should we not be gaveled in for that? And how does all that work? That's one example For me time of day time of week Length of meetings all of that's all of those items. I think I would love for us to be able to talk about in the next year or two I just don't think we have the capacity right now to to modify this to that level So I've I just want to say that during this portion of it As we talk about the makeup specifically of how the meeting flows Because I have heard from people that really would like to see some changes And for me it comes down to the frustration of capacity And I think we all have our ideas on what we want to do with it and we'd love to hear more But right now we need to get this to a place where we can still function And tweak until we have a chance to really Do some interesting research and engage about about how it could be different And that might be another role that the commission coming up next year whenever it comes up Looking at governance. They might be able to also look at some of that And do some of that like work for the council and staff So I just wanted to put that in there that We haven't given up on some of those things It's just a There's a big list So sorry if I hijacked there for a minute, but I don't I think that's fine if we want to separate it out from the reading file It's just another item anybody else Amber I can't see you She's good thumbs up. All right Okay, now let's see where this comment actually belongs That was that comment Okay, so this is just a note We will probably add in need to add in a section here about The clerk role so the charter added the clerk role position Without some specifics about what that what that role is And there's Some information in statute, but it's also Relatively vague and not entirely clear Um So yeah, still more thought and thinking on Defining that role and what and what that looks like Way back pre-covid I I think I had to sign minutes Yep That was my clerk role was essentially signing minutes Um And if nobody's no one was available to take minutes and we weren't Doing what we're doing now with zoom recordings. I I wouldn't have to actually take the minutes that I did that once Um, but we're not doing that anymore. Um, so yeah, we can We'll find something It's clerk on the select board. I signed off on checkpoints. Yeah, okay. Yeah all 26 pages Um, because I We're for the public. We're all looking at Marcus because right now he's clerk. Yeah. Um I think we're in the section right now concerning section five, right? Yes, I just want to make sure that we're we're all in the same age literally, um So, uh, let me ask this question since we're talking about the chairperson role We're talking about roles, but the chairperson role there is, um In here the vice president shall be elected chairperson for the meeting involved and I'm I wonder whether or not this language is The role of the the reason it comes up for a question means because the vice president In this language, it sounds like their only role is when The president is not available for the meeting But I'm wondering Yeah, I'm a 30,000 foot view as the vice president not the president when the president is unavailable regardless because let's just say you're on vacation Out of country I don't know and decisions have to be made That require the president's input with the city manager Is that not Then ambers will hold while you are Is the the language that I see in statute is really about being In some form and and I'm it doesn't seem to speak to Vacations out of statements whatever I suppose and yeah, I mean I suppose in this case this being specifically about the meetings. Yeah You know that that's kind of two different conversations. You know one. What are we going to do? structurally if Or if anything if I'm away In this case because I'm currently president, but in this case This is what would happen You know if if there was something Some reason why the president whoever that would be is not available. Yes. All right. That's a good check on me because that's right This is about the meeting and it got me thinking about the whole role versus Just the meeting so I am curious though about the word elected chairperson Is that is that a defect that just automatically happens because it sounds like that's a step that has to be taken So I wonder if maybe that should be In the absence of the city president the vice president shall be chairperson for the meeting involved as opposed to elected And Andrew sorry Go ahead I would just advocate that we go back to the That staff go back to the charter and just use the languages in the charter because spelled out in here as to What the roles are we don't need to reinvent the wheel just to your point Um, I would definitely recommend that and I'm fairly certain it does say this that the vice president acts As it is not elected to the role of president if the president is incapacitated for whatever reason Because we don't want to put an extra step in there. Yeah, for sure Okay Moving down if there's not anything else Have something on section six So public participation so I strongly feel that we should allow During public to be heard at the beginning of the meeting to people to share About any item including items that are already on the agenda and I say this for one major reason I believe it's an equity issue because of the fact that there are whether we're talking Because then the community could count on that on wednesday at 6 30. They would have an opportunity to talk on Whatever subject matter because right now Anything that's on our agenda relies on them following along which can be difficult And onerous on some individuals Got kids. You don't have You know, maybe sooner you're at home. You're following on zoom. You're waiting for that last time on the agenda Who knows how long it takes for those subjects to come along and you're trying to manage your life While you're trying to get to that particular topic I think allowing them the opportunity right up front and then knowing that they'll have the opportunity up front Gives everybody an equal opportunity to share on these topics and more So I would like to see us do that I'm not saying that we don't give them that opportunity later during the agenda specific to those topics I think we can talk about that, but I think that We need to open up that public to be heard at the beginning I would say that if said person does share on said topic. I would ask them to then not reiterate that again later but I want to open it up For equity at the beginning I like that idea. Mike. I have concerns on it You know period. I like it period my concerns are often their background Is what they've read in the board the agenda packet And I think there is value to hearing it discussed more openly to having a more thorough introduction by the manager or the appropriate staff member There's a significant time concern that I have generally about our meetings and I think that for me that issue around accessibility to our meetings almost trumps This although they're they're slightly different And then the idea that that person wouldn't Would perhaps not get a chance to speak again after you know that that troubles me a little bit after the fact of having more information to inform their opinion Um, or maybe they've said something that isn't as relevant as they thought and then left the meeting Not offering a more nuanced set of input after hearing what we're actually talking about. There's a number of Issues there and I wonder if maybe that isn't one of those things where we can When we get to a different way of having our meat of holding our meetings and taking care of our business Where we can almost and this is I wasn't going to bring this up tonight, but you know like one one paradigm might be We have a pre-meeting agenda two weeks out We get to the point where we've done the strategic plan we have We have a list that's public of the general topics that are coming up And we just sort of have dates that they're coming up and that's on our website It's a static list on our web dynamic list on our website That people can reference and then they can say oh look second meeting in october They're going to be talking about this and here's some background on it and I can prepare I can even hit the button next to it and send my thoughts in at a time or I know And and we're running so efficiently that we can predict it's going to be in the first hour of the second hour Because guess what we're only having to our meetings Like I'm you we're all chuckling like the like that's ever going to happen But that is significantly a goal of mine Because again that gets back to how accessible it is for people to participate and have people to serve So I I hear what you're saying. I'm just not 100 convinced that We're there yet In terms of how we're able to provide the background to people to make that I will argue that a long-winded thing. I apologize because Now I appreciate that you gave me some things to think about but let me let me add in this. I'll simply Work up your comment to say this we should be efficient and And effective in our Discussions and dialogue so that we can get through so we can do the work that means I'm not worried about I'm not worried about meeting a particular hour I'm concerned that And I Totally hear you about having that nuance view. I don't think I think if Again if I were on the other side and I was sharing something in public and I said it at the beginning If we still provide that opportunity later on they could still catch that discussion and say I want to revise my earlier comments Here they are now We do know there are the most values that are doing public to be heard at the beginning and then not taking public comment after that So it's not uncommon I wouldn't say that it was necessarily ideal But I would like to I would like the attention to be more on again giving them access And not worrying about whether or not You're too late So I appreciate what both of you are trying to accomplish here And I really like the ability to have the public comment at the beginning of the meeting While also maintaining the public comment for each agenda topic Um, we generally have an idea of when there's going to be a lot of public comments Because we can see people show up in the audience and we know that there's going to be discussion And we are within the right of the council to put time limits On public input if there's you know, eight people waiting to speak on something like you are able to do that It's not illegal. It's not hurting anyone's constitutional right to free speech It's a meeting efficiency tool And so I just want to put put it out there that that is the thing that we can do But I also appreciate the opportunity to have the public Speak at the beginning because they might not be able to stay the whole meeting and then If they are able to stay the whole meeting great, they might have an opportunity to say something at the Point of each piece of business. So I'm I'm I'm arguing for both With the understanding that we can as the city council say to the public We need to move along If there's so many people here, we need to have time limits or you know, we can we can work with them to Make the meeting as efficient as possible I want to make sure that's true because I thought we had some guidance that it was in terms of time limits Recent that yeah, I think we can I was wondering where that that question was coming from and I I think it's possibly during the Dog ordinance procedures that we talked about that because that procedure is more of a quasi judicial Hearing and so that's different than just our general meetings. I don't think there's any prohibition from setting a time limit I'll simply say that I know Burlington doesn't post that regularly I know that the early communities that do impose that regularly I will say that I there was a time that I actually sent a previous president a note saying please impose time limits And I believe that if I recall the comment correctly, it was a matter of this was our tradition our practice And I and I got that and I think that as long as we're up front about the fact that we May or may not put those in there so that the public understands that we'll do that I think it's fun. If you're just doing Cold I can completely understand why The public would not respond positively putting time outside But as long as we're up running and at the same time acknowledging look while we may give you three minutes or whatever it is You know, whatever that number They still have ways to interact with us still have emails still have You know, yeah, the concern though is that if we're if we're making a decision which we often are During those first conversations. Sometimes they're our first conversation So I agree and that's one of the reasons why I think I've made my comments Still at the last meeting about why I would really love to see us get to a place where we're being proactive because then we have Time to bandwidth or space to be able to give ourselves times for that interaction and get feedback so that we can again We don't have to keep making decisions in the moment And trying to react to to those comments also in the moment while giving these items enough consideration and thought and discussion I think we do. Andrew just one second. I think we because Andrew's way into I think we do actually Do a pretty good job of filtering out the the topics that actually require A lot of conversation versus Those that Are less complex We can certainly do more I'm open to it. I just I'm not gonna lie. I'm worried about um The time it will take although this evening it wouldn't take wouldn't have taken any time at all So I guess Andrew, what are you thinking? Would advocate for today's purposes to keep this pretty close to as is already presented just for the fact of If the big goal is to be able to improve how we interact and engage the public That's a different conversation in general and this is really What's currently being talked about about when public Comments can happen at our meetings is one tool as a part of a very large tool chest that exists And I would wait until after the strategic planning process is done to then have staff and or potentially a committee Really dive deeply into that topic into how to engage people so that that for the public so that in that way When the meeting happens by that point in time, you've already had the public comments You've already received so much information that you're just synthesizing you've had the time to process at these meetings to then make the decision Um instead of waiting until this one time To be the time that the public can't participate if you get the nuances to what i'm saying um I think there's other other ways to solve this problem other than Just when the public can talk at at our meetings Yeah, a lot of things have to come together for it to work the way I think we're all and we're all hoping it will and I think the public really wants it to um Maybe there's a middle ground we can find where as we're setting each meetings agenda we can try to predict You know, this is our meeting policy But we can always Come to a meeting or warn a meeting and say we anticipate this is going to be You know, we want more input on this And this is what we're going to do for this meeting. We're going to put this topic at the beginning For these two topics at the top and we often do this right when staff need to attend Put the topics at the top so our staff can join the meeting and then go home um Put those at the beginning and do sort of a hybrid of what we're talking about for the time being and say For tonight's meeting we understand there's a lot of input that people have we're going to change it up and almost approach it from a public hearing One of you when it doesn't actually require a public hearing So that we can On the one hand that sounds okay on the other hand it sounds like on tonight We could guess that maybe there'd be something on here that would take a lot of I don't know. I'm just again, I'm I am concerned about Feedback I get about how long Some of these meetings go as I go out and try to recruit people to do committee work and board work and Yeah, it's a it's a it's a difficult balance. That's all It's not so much. I think about any one of us. It's You know right now we're actively recruiting for people to to put their Their hand in and say I want to do this and when they see three or four hour meetings It's just a flat now And before you even get started And I just suggest that a possible way to solicit public input before the meeting begins that would be easy for us to accomplish now Is on the agenda when we have like we have the zoom information and all that we could just say public input on agenda items Prior to the meeting is welcome email Whoever it is you want them to email Submit your comments in advance here And then you'll have some feedback Not for the meeting That's a great idea. Can we Get that distributed as in the End them to the packet so that we have it Here, I mean, how does that work with So if we take that comment not to drag this out But if we take that comment for four days, you know If we from friday to twos to wednesday noon or whenever my cutoff is to make it make it available That's then public record You know, what does that do to where does it get put? What's the cutoff is that does that meet all the rules just some you know, we can do it But I mean, is that okay? In the past in meetings, I've been to where public input has come in after the packets been submitted to the board The board received paper copies of it at the table And then it's discussed but also it's added to the packet For the public to look at afterwards because it arrives Sure. And in fact, we had a lot of that during the merger conversation So great. Thanks for the reminder But I think that sounds good. So where are we with this? We've got I think it's a perfectly good Uh addition to put that on on the top of the packet right at the top and find a way for people to submit Remind them that they can do that What's the feeling on which way we want to go in terms of public to be heard? I know I said a lot but at this point Um I feel like Marcus's suggestion of not limiting it to items not on the agenda I think it's okay for folks to talk about what's on the agenda Regina, what do you think? I agree with all the points that have been brought up It totally makes sense to me that um, you know, you're sort of missing the introduction and the full discussion by providing the comment upfront, but I do completely agree that some people might want to address an agenda item and If they can do it at 6 30 but can't do it at 7 then they're sort of out of luck My only caution if you're going to do this and it's going to fall onto whoever sitting in that chair Is to navigate the dynamic of when somebody says something could be completely egregiously wrong Um potentially fairly off topic. Maybe even damning or damaging um to be able to uh say thank you and this isn't when we're actually addressing that topic though So we're going to receive your information and we're going to set aside until the agenda item comes up And to not engage in that back and forth Because otherwise you're having the that agenda item happened early on in the meeting instead of when that actual time frame is So that's just the only dynamic and why For me, I would want to default to what those of you who are going to be here in another year want to do I will say an uh, I will say an observation of other town meetings other Council and select board meetings What I have observed is exactly that we do I think the public really appreciates the fact that there is a dynamic council here that does interact I have seen many others that just take public to be heard Give them thanks for showing up and then they're on their way There isn't that back and forth that happens and I I can absolutely see Andrew's point and I would I would I would agree with that Because I think it's it's well said that again If they want to have more dialogue Do that during the topic But during public to be heard that is your opportunity to If it's a specific question like hey, what is the process for getting a speed study done That's a great question to bring up at that time that you can interact with it sign the agenda item Thank you for your input. We'll be discussing that later on level I think that's a perfectly reasonable expectation for the public and for us Amber, what do you think? Any thoughts on this? This is a document that we can obviously change if we find that there Or we run into a situation where we think we do need to change it. So Happy to test it out See how it works So we are going to put Um As marcus suggested a section where we're going to change the public to be heard language basically is what we're doing I think if you're just updating this document, it's just omitting On matters not on the agenda Just remove that and I think let's add in to the Somewhere where it makes sense then in a way that makes sense Time limits may be imposed and set by the chair Um on a meeting by meeting basis Based on we don't have to base it on anything but my my personal thinking doing this would be it would be based on complexity of the evening complexity of the agenda complexity of the topic number of people That sort of thing it's going to be dynamic Um It's in c Sorry, it's in c All right. I just want to make sure that they're gonna Okay Sounds good. Thanks marcus Okay, I do have one other thing on this Because I sorry you met your two minutes Well done, Rajesh No, no, I noting that Regina I don't believe there were any other comments that that anyone that I saw on your pdf I just want to make sure that I we don't I have something in section eight. So I just want to um Yeah, I can I don't remember On page 11. Yeah, okay It comes after section eight. Okay. So let's stop at section eight I would just like to get a little clarification because um, I know this is state statute But I want to make sure that I'm understanding this correctly. So in the case of We meet quorum of three members We in order for us to do any business. We have to have a unanimous positive or navel one way or the other No Just unanimous Just because it the language the presence of three members shall shall Constitute a quorum Three affirmative votes shall be necessary to take binding council action So that sounds like a unanimous vote of three individuals whereas it's four its majority Five its majority, but in the case of three we have to have unanimous Okay, you need three yes votes no matter what Okay, okay minutes. I think these next comments are gonna I've got sort of double comments down here, but I can't seem to open them Okay, so I think what's going on here from remember friendly. Um, so Section nine a This comment doesn't have anything to do with section nine. I think this document is messed up the Input from when you ski is How you handle a disruptive member of the public and it almost seems like that text is Missing in its entirety here I think it's um 6d At the bottom of page nine 60 pdf page nine any person making a personal impertinent boisterous or slanderous remarks in the city council meeting Yes, okay, so that comment way down there that's talking about when you ski rules of procedure is here at at 60, um Uh, and it just sort of laying out this, um Process, you know, I don't know that we this document previously talked about Calling the police if you needed to this lays out a little bit more of what how you would try to bring the meeting to order before you Had to take that step Uh, hopefully we don't ever get to the point where you'd have to call the police to get somebody removed from the meeting but That is what that comment was referring to up here is just this sort of order of operations There was a case in a municipality that's escaping me where they had removed somebody and then the ACLU ended up getting involved about how you're Taking was more failure So I don't recall how that one ultimately played out. So don't quote me on any of this I just recommend somebody take a look back at that to see what the ram of think it played out that it couldn't But I can't quite remember the details remember seeing it Okay, I'll we'll look that up um And so then that would impact v five there the online attendee I I guess I was wondering as well Host muting versus removal On a zoom world You know, the middle ground would be you can stay on the meeting if you Stop acting in a way that is whatever Much the same on zoom you can attend the meeting. We're not going to let you speak if you're yelling Whatever you're yelling or whatever you're doing So I guess that's more about Can we do that? but Regina, are you typically the host in these meetings getting into zoom language right now? Yes, okay, so you can actually do that. All right Um, okay. Yeah, and the only you know experience thus far being here was during the hearing for the it RFP and we did have somebody come in who repeatedly was coming in and talking so You know the other option is if we did have a zoom license Which I think we do is we could you know, I don't think it's to this point yet It's not been really a problem But if it becomes a problem we can start making these webinars as opposed to meetings and there's there's different controls and that if that's In terms of when you open up comment when you open up microphones when you open up But there's still participation and so public to be heard would be a time when the when the the phone lines are open and But we haven't really approached them anywhere near that kind of issue Yeah, and I think that the easier way to go is that we just set it up with a waiting room So which we don't do now everybody just can join the meeting as soon as they come in But we could set it up with a waiting room so that when we're starting the meeting we're admitting everybody and then if somebody is disruptive then we Yeah, remove it if you join the waiting room just not let them in. Yeah, I mean you're still sort of effectively Getting them out of meeting, right? I've just highly recommend engaged body in this. Yes. Yeah. Yeah And again, this is really hasn't come up that much at all Once or twice when I've been here Right now my misrememory. I don't want to go through this again. We'll just those joint meetings wasn't just that It wasn't me Okay We'll do all right. So sorry these comments are so messed up. I'm gonna have to keep matching them up with where they go Long I think that's the same comment. You're a comment about reviewing for best practices is this exact same topic area that we're talking about um I think these comments are in their right location down here So part c. Yeah So this is uh c and what page we're on page 11 that talks about A counselor request an abstract of their remarks remarks on a subject discussed at the meeting being added to the minutes from the previous meeting And uh, I'm Not sure if this has been used in practice and I'm not sure that there's a benefit in We've never really used that practice And also you have the opportunity to edit the minutes in the following meeting amendment. So So But when you're this is talking about amending the minutes, right? So I guess I mean, I mean, I this can't this came up for me last year. Um Not going to identify the issue but um Where I felt like I continually had an issue around getting my point across it's reflected in the minutes And I think it's very subjective listening to the to the meetings And trying to paraphrase without Editorializing it's very difficult with some topics. So I I don't know necessarily how I feel here It's kind of trusting the the more experienced folks in the room to be quite honest that have dealt with us more In terms of what the pros and cons my cons especially might be to that because I think there's a difference between what you're talking about Where's like no, no, you don't understand. That's not what I said versus Taking the opportunity to Customize a message after the fact after that and put it into the minutes. That's inappropriate. Okay. All right. I guess I get it this way Yeah, I would just agree with what Elaine is saying largely in one of the things that I think The the village trustees and our council now Hasn't really well as we've avoided using this as a platform Or right more political. I've definitely seen that happen before so that I think having this opportunity allows for it to be used in ways That we haven't done in the past and I don't think we want to see our community go in that direction Yeah, okay fair enough And I think one time the one I think I just we just solved it by me going back and actually asking for a quote to be put in From the recording. So it wasn't Adding or subtracting it was just simply asking for it to be accurate and then you get the whole council to vote on Right, right. Yes. Okay. Great. That sounds fine. Thanks Okay And then this other comment is just we'll make sure that we're getting the Voice votes correct now that we're in this sort of hybrid environment and how that how that needs to be properly identified I guess and under the under consideration other considerations, you know, is this a public to understand our meetings work or just for the council? I think I think it's both and I think it would be also to add to that You know, we talked about something on the web page A more narrative version of essentially, you know, welcoming People to these meetings and on the website, maybe a paragraph of like the order of operations and and how it works and You know Really stressing how to provide input and when I think the last time we had it on the website. I wrote that so I'd be happy to Figure that out again when you're ready Oh I'm just going to ask to meeting participants I please we're going to have an opportunity For comment in a minute. Please don't use the chat because the comments in the chat are not reflected in the minutes But we do want to hear what you have to say If there is a reason that you can't speak during the meeting, let me know and I will try to accommodate that somehow Great, is there anything else from the board? Regina no, all right members of the public There's nobody in the room. So I'm going to look at my participants list And see if there's anyone with a hand up. I'm just going to read through this real quick Uh, annie cooper Yes, I have three quick things to say one is that In the discussion about max market and the post office and such I think it's important to think about the the land of equity and that People do walk to max market even though even though it might not seem like it's the popular place to go It's a very utilized Community resource for groceries. They do accept food stamps. They do in all the all the things So I think that that's really integral to the conversation and the post office like a like says I think it's important to maintain your thoughts about where people who live in all the apartments and things like that My next point, please is about The discussion about where public can be heard. It is very taxing for example during one of the dog discussions I know That my friend sat and waited for an extraordinarily long time and her dad was there and it was That you know, they had a baby at home and they were so patient and so polite and respectful about that weight But at the national level I'm on many committees and we have time frames And we seek to live inside the time frame And I think that if you were to just gently Put some time frames to your topic Ones that you can achieve even if they're, you know, maybe a little ridiculous at first But if you know that you can land a 7 15 p.m start time for agenda item 5a And and then if you can try to at least Open the floor at that time or something so that you can Number one is more professional to try to live within a time frame in a meeting And I know it's hard because these discussions are really graciously open ended and everyone's Comfortably casual and I mean that in a good sense. It's a really great sense of community and relationship So once everybody at the table and discussion inclusive staff But I think if you were to put time frame And then at least If you can't get to the allotted time frame in time Pause a second at that time and call it out and say, okay This is the 8 15 time and then you could let someone talk But I also want to agree with Elaine that the Ability to send it in ahead of time and then have it land in the information The revised packet and then have it read aloud. So even if somebody does talk to the agenda item during public to be heard that I think it should be written down and then reread and introduced Again during the discussion. So when you go to this point where you're about to ask for public to be heard Let's say I said this up front then somebody would read my statement aloud This is what got said about this topic because it might be that something that gets said during from the public Is integral to your discussion conversation and then to Andrew's point. I think it is Really Andrew your your leadership at this table will be sorely missed and I really appreciate you and thank you for your time here I just want to throw that out there, but uh, it is very important to Take the bigger picture about where your input can be done And now I've talked so much that I've used up time and I don't remember my third point Wait, can we have a second? which was Oh By the way, the chief of police was sitting at the table during that moment where somebody with Literally sitting in the room So I think and I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh because actually it's the whole thing I'm laughing out of kind of nervousness. It was a very challenging situation to be viewing in real time I think that it's important that Maybe You all make decisions about who's going to make those decisions because what happened in that room when it got Confusing was that nobody really knew how to make a decision Karen paul did a great job of staying focused and staying respectful But I think no one really knew how to make a decision I'm going to go back to the Andrew cheerleading team again and Andrew you handle that that time when there was a lot of verbal abuse coming towards the The community and the table you handle that very well You shut it down effectively But I don't know that everyone's going to be able to think on their feet the way that you did in that moment I think that it's important to give someone the Kind of authority to give everyone else a heads up of okay. This is how we're gonna This just happened. Let's let's say we give that role to I don't know Marcus that You know something starts happening Marcus certainly handles himself well and challenging situations on the radio And would you know someone that kind of knows when to say all right enough like you might want to say to me now All right, thank you very much I'm going to because we have a participant that has expressed that they're Losing their voice read these comments. It's not something I normally would do from the chat um I think this melissa's iphone melissa if you could for the record type me your last name for the minutes Sort of as a quid pro quo for reading your comments nicely It would help us a lot. Um, but I think you're referring to the section where we were talking about removing a disorderly person Um, the decision should not solely be left in one chairperson Given that it's quite likely the chairperson knows nothing of the person or their conditions which may have inadvertently offended them What was discussed about giving a community member time to Sorry, that's moving around time to calm down before having them physically removed by law enforcement is much more civilized Obane the chairperson is also some strong language Um melissa ham hyphen ls elias Thank you Any further comment from the board on what we've heard? Okay Quick question. I was just for clarity's sake Uh, this is just to talk about it as a first pass. We're not approving it tonight. Right. So come back to us again So this isn't the only time that correct, right? It's not the only time we're going to talk about it It's not the only time people can weigh in on it Um, I think we we had the possibility if there weren't that many comments and it was clear that we could Clear up, but I think we have some questions. So I think it's going to come back sometime in the next couple months Great. Thank you Um scrolling That wraps up our business items except for our executive session So I would uh entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda Some more second awesome Uh about discussion all those in favor of approving the consent agenda say aye. Aye Those opposed nay motion passes reading file Manager comments you want to start? yes, uh, so, um Every year we give out longevity awards to staff. It's sort of a five-year increment And last year so i'm just going to read through these Last week we provided library staff mary denison for 10 years Ron bundy in public works 10 years Caitlyn fey at ejrp technically 11 years because we missed her last year, but uh 10 years Um carol boucher at the library 15 years wendy hisco at the library 15 years brad luck ejrp Problem with that also 16 somehow missed him. I think the issue really is the calendar year of fiscal year, but and Very big one ricky jones of 35 years. He's been with the city. So, um, that was really fun We had a staff lunch over at ejrp. It was a beautiful day on friday. So that was uh, really great That's fantastic. Yeah um So wastewater treatment facility, um last week A&R de c completed their first state inspection of the facility in four years It was a positive inspection and a follow-up report will be Provided to the city with action items if there are any Um, chelsea will be working also at the wastewater treatment facility with two norwich university residents Residents sorry students for the school year on investigating solar expansion at the facility So we've already got some solar panels down there, but uh, they'll be looking at that um Latest on our construction projects. Uh, the brickyard project is completely done Lines are striped. Um, and I think some little bit of grass has even been growing at this point. So it's exciting Um Crescent connector. We are moving along there got some curbs in and some sidewalks. So that is really exciting Uh, main street water line. We have run into some ledge So, um Really, uh, it's a pretty significant amount of ledge. Um on the other side of athens drive So we'll be coming back to the council with what that sort of looks like and what our what our strategy is there, but the thinking is at this point is to Try to get 75 percent of the of the project 100 percent done this year And essentially the the challenge is we've got our old water line Right up smack next to this huge amount of ledge and if we attempt to move remove that ledge Before we remove that water line, it's going to break and we're going to be in a bit of a mess So we've got to figure out a strategy on how to manage that section. Um in a different way So you'll be hearing more on that I'm sure Um, and then uh, I know there's been some questions because since we've talked about that code enforcement Conversation that we had a while back And we're hoping to move forward on the sandwich boards Towards the end of october. I know that still seems like a long ways away, but It's Gonna take a little bit of effort just to try that we're attempting to put a system together that we can Kind of play out and then see how that works and and use it for other things That's a good point because people have questioned why the sandwich boards to start with and I think one important thing to remember is That is that they're trying to come up with an efficient system for staff a nice process for the public And all of that and the sandwich boards seem to provide A relatively low impact way to test that out. Yeah Just want to say that out loud so that people had a somewhat of an idea of why we're starting there Yeah, great. Thank you. Any council comments amber lane? I think Um Really nice to hear that's great. I hope the luncheon was nice I definitely thought about it and I thought that you're doing a whole heck of a lot right now. Yeah, sure. No problem No, no That's true. Give it up. We do a drive-by clap. Um, no, we're very happy for them and really appreciative And if there's food Just want to call out the sx chips movie up at The sx cinemas our american family, I think that's worth checking out For people take a look if they have the time to go to go view it and listen to the discussion Um, and that's all I have So without anything else I would entertain an executive session motion And I will say ahead of time that we're not going to come back and make any decisions It will be relatively brief. So if you have the form I will do it correctly swear I move that the city council enter into executive session discuss a personnel evaluation Um, pursuant to one vsa 313 a3 to include the city council second Great, any comment, uh All those in favor say aye. Aye Disposed name Great motion passes Said I couldn't find it. So is that is there just the one?