 Both of my boys loved to play with cars. They would pick up sticks and everything was a weapon to them. And it wasn't for me. It was like the craziest thing to see it play out. I think it really is something to them. Where should I look? Granddad, just at me. Just at me. Just at me. He's good. That's such a great question. You're very conscious of the technical aspects because I love it when people are like, is my head in the frame? It's like perfect, perfect question. Okay, so hey, my name is Ty. Hi, I'm Amy Mosby. You host a camp called Camp 42. Yes. Do you think it's very important that people should go to it? I do. Why do you think that? I would love to know more about this and why do you think it's significant for other people to know about it? Well, I think there are two reasons. One is that it's a summer camp. And summer camp is very beneficial for young kids. It's one of the first opportunities they get to be away from home. Their first chance at independence, being with other like-minded peers. It's the first time that they get to make responsibilities and choices on their own. So summer camp by itself is a huge benefit. All right. Summer camp by itself. By itself. Just in principle. In principle. They have Christian summer camps. Why do they have to go to your camp? Well, and that's the other reason. Just two more in case we didn't hear the first three. Right. So ours is important because there are no strings attached. We take kids exactly where they are and we see their value in what they are as they are. We don't try to brainwash them. We don't try to change them. We don't try to tell them what to think. We try to give them tools to evaluate and tools to help them think and to be able to evaluate information. And then once they arrive at the decisions that they've arrived at, we try to give them or instill in them the courage to stand by their convictions. So that- These are like really great things, but I wonder like in concrete terms, like what are some examples? Like could you give me a mail down or something? Okay. Yeah, yeah. What's the best example of something? One of our activities that we do is something called Socrates Cafe. Oh my gosh! I love Socrates. Yeah, so Socrates Cafe is something. There's a book, Socrates Cafe, and there are Socrates cafes across the country. So this is not anything that's unique. So I don't know what a Socrates Cafe is. You have the worst luck about this. I'll say at least they're informative interruptions. They are. Socrates Cafe, what is that? So it's a philosophical discussion group. And this is where we talk about big picture questions. Sometimes it's something as big as like the meaning of life. Yeah. Sometimes it's do we have souls? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But the big thing about it is it's camper lag. And we have a staff member that facilitates it to kind of keep things on topic. And kids will raise their hand and they'll keep a list of names so that, you know, the kids don't have to keep their hands raised. Because a lot of times when you're in a discussion and you're having your hand raised, you're waiting to talk, right? You're not necessarily listening. So by having the adult facilitator take care of that, the kids can really concentrate on listening. So this is where they can talk about different ideas. And they really get a chance to listen to each other and to have practice engaging and dialogue with somebody who might not believe the same way they do about a topic. And, you know, as adults in this country, we're all the time meeting people that believe differently than we do. And it's really important to be able to have a conversation about the merits of a topic without it getting personal. So this is an opportunity. Or at least be exposed to new ideas. To be exposed to different ideas. Yeah. And to speak up for them. And to, you know, not just think, oh, I disagree with that, but I'm not going to say anything. Yeah. So it's a safe space for them to express their ideas. And the kids are actually surprisingly respectful of each other. Do you ever get, like, a very religious kid who speaks up and says, my mom told me this, this is what I believe. I like to express it at this count. We don't. Or at this moment. We haven't gotten a lot of kids with strong religious backgrounds. We've had a few from mixed families to where one parent might be an atheist and another is a Christian. So some of them do have a religious background. And we do have one camper that she probably would identify as a Christian. But she has been very accepted and is very accepting of the other kids. And it's just very respectful of the way the kids do this. So to throw this out, whether you're a religious kid or not, you can benefit from at least being part of a conversational group of different ideas. Right. Because we talk about ideas and ways to, like I said, to evaluate ideas and we do value the scientific approach and evidence-based approach. And another thing that we do is we have dialogues about social issues that other camps, especially religious ones, might shy away from, like gender identity and gender expression. And so we have several trans campers and we even have trans staff. Wow. We even had a camper first year came as birth identity female and came out that week as gay. And I felt so honored that that person felt safe at our camp to be able to share that, you know, with these people that they had just met that week. And the following year, they were registered to come to camp again as female. And a couple of days before camp, their mom called me and said, can my child come as a boy? And I said, yes. So how long has this camp 42 actually been going on? My South Carolina camp has been in existence since 2012. Okay. That's the long, that's, as far as summer camp goes, that is street cred merit-worthy. Like it's been around for a while. Yeah. And we take it very seriously. Like all of our staff, including me, we're all volunteers. But I don't like to leave with that because I don't want it to seem like we're just volunteers. We are youth development professionals. And there's a whole industry on summer camps. And the American Camp Association covers that in the United States. And there are conferences, national conferences, regional conferences. And we attend the national ones and the regional ones. In fact, I was just in Nashville a few weeks ago for the national conference. And so, you know, we take, we take it very seriously and work with other camps to see what they're doing that's new to keep up with trends, to kind of see what other camps are doing with different issues. Some camps are exploring gender neutral cabins. Okay. So, you know, kind of keeping on the cutting edge of what, you know, this can, can lead to where it's gender inclusive, I guess I should say. I hear what you're saying. I know what you're saying. Can I throw one thing out? Sure. So I feel like I have a better idea about camp 42 is now. How would you improve it if you could improve it moving forward? What's something that you feel like you can do to improve it? Not that it's lacking now. Right. But what can you do to optimize what you're trying to cut out? Well, that's great. I was thinking, like, what's next? Yeah. I didn't really try to have that mentality about what's next. Yeah. I would like to improve it as a whole. I would like to have more offerings as far as locations. And to be able to do more fundraising to get camperships. But our locations, we have three, the South Carolina location, one in Mississippi and one in Florida. And when we have been expanding, we always look to make sure that somebody is within a four-hour drive of a camp. I wish that we could do more. But I think we could serve more kids if we had more. So that would be the one thing. And I know that's not exactly what you were asking, but that's kind of like what's next that we're working on is just expanding out. So we got the kids on the camp. They're driving there. They're at camp right now. Right. Now that they're here, what can you do to improve it? Right. I would like to actually offer more in terms of, and I don't think we'll sound backwards for summer camp, but more in terms of technology. So technology-based, we are in no-screen camp so we don't allow phones or a connection to the outside. And primarily it's not so much that it's technology, but it's that we want campers to be present in the moment and not have the distraction or communication with the outside. So like, don't take pictures. Take memories. Right. I see. Right. And don't be playing on Facebook like be present and have these conversations in real life. But I think moving forward, because I want to stay innovative and I want to stay on the cutting edge because I think those values are important really to everybody as young kids move forward because, you know, more and more job creation is based on innovation and creativity. Can I ask? Go ahead. Oh, sorry. Can I ask? This is more of a, let me know if this is a fair question. Okay. Just let me know. But I found that it sounds like there's a lot of progressive attitudes being taught. Yes. Because a lot of kids maybe in a high school environment never get a chance to be exposed in a safe place. I would say shared as opposed to taught. Shared. I like that. Shared as opposed to taught. The way how I understand progressive lessons is that they tend to be incompatible with non-progressive lessons. Like if someone says, hey, you're free to express yourself however you want. You don't need to fill into these gender stereotypes that we set up arbitrarily. The other side would say, if you're a man, you do this, if you're a woman, you do this, if you're a boy, you're good at this, if you're really good at that. Are both of those mindsets equally expressed or do they have room to be expressed at a camp 42? And if they do, does one get, no, it's actually, it should be like this. Does one get force correcting the other one not? At camp, we go with values based on human value and human worth. So from a camp program point of view, they would not be equal. So we go with the freedom to be who you are and we can love to have conversations about them, but as far as gender, we try very hard to break down any walls that may have been built up in society that are arbitrary about boys wearing nail polish, don't wear nail polish girls do. And we have something called HONAB, which is House of Nails and Beautification. That's an elective where kids can paint their nails are, put on makeup and boys, you know, and so, you know, breaking this down what should be. And I think that really comes down to what we are as a free thought camp is we want kids to have the ability to think through thoughts and express them how they have. Now, if campers want to have, if campers have an opinion, that's their opinion and their thoughts. And they're welcome to express it within an appropriate way. Simply as a campers like, I'd be totally for gender expression however you want, but I am a boy and I like snails and I like smashing things with hammers. I'm not going to smash snails, but I'm going to smash inanimate objects because I like doing that. I like breaking stuff and learning how things go together. And I like camping. And I like doing stuff that's stereotypically considered boy stuff. But I'm totally cool. Everybody else do whatever they want to do too. I just want to share that perspective of like inside the stereotype is also cool too. Oh right, yeah. It's totally fine to be. I want to be a girly girl. If girly girls are fine. Or a boyy boyy. Boyy boyy. Is that how you say it? Boyy lead boy? Yeah. To be that is totally fine too. Like anywhere on that spectrum. Anywhere on the spectrum. As long as that camper or staff member treats everybody else with respect. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I feel like that could be really, I feel like what we're getting, or I feel like we have definitely the, there's an urge to instill values of like everybody's equal. Right. And then there are also people, since everyone's different, there's also people who already fit a stereotypical mold. Right. Without realizing like, I'm actually really comfortable here. Right. I'm sorry for being who I am. I'm also expressing myself too. It's like, you don't have to be sorry. Exactly. You're in that stereotype. You're you. You're good. She's you. We just want people to communicate with each other. Right. And to not feel like they need to. If my son, and you know, before I had kids, I thought I'd be all one way. And you know, that went out the window. But my, both of my boys. Yeah. Love to play with cars. They would pick up sticks and everything was a weapon to them. And it wasn't for me. It was like the craziest thing to like see it play out. I think there's really something to this. Like these boys pick up sticks and they're just always beating stuff up. Testosterone loves beating stuff up. It's a great, have you ever beaten stuff up? With a stick? It's amazing. Oh man, when you do it and you get that hormonal rush, you're like, oh, I'm going to keep doing this. This is great. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. I think it is not necessarily wrong or right. Like it's appropriate and appropriate and look at the actions or the impact that it has on other things. Sure. But my boys would definitely be very much a stereotypical boy. And anybody like that or a girl, a girl, that's totally fine. And they can have their thoughts on however anybody else is or what, but to judge somebody else would not be okay. Right. So that would not be okay. I think it's not so much, let me know if this is fair. I think it's not so much a standard of expression. It's a standard of how you get well with other people. Right. And it sounds like what this camp does is facilitate a space for people who get along with each other, even if they're different. Because it's not whether they fit a standard or not a standard. Right. It's what should be standardized as easy facilitation of expression. Yeah. And it's what's common among us. Yes. We really look out to our common humanity and what do we share because there's always so much more that we share with people that we think we'll disagree with if we could put our differences aside. Yeah. Just a little. And not that differences aren't important because sometimes they are, especially in a public sphere when it comes to rights and whatnot. But I think it is important to kind of look to see where we can connect. Okay. Cool. Katie, just to summarize real quick then. Camp 42, awesome place for kids to get along with each other and express themselves in a free environment. And that also means whether they're girly girls or boy or like more... Yeah. Whatever it is on the spectrum, whatever it is on the boy spectrum, they just have a chance to express themselves and hear from other people on a level playing field. Yep. And I think that's really, really cool. Thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Cool. Awesome. Awesome. That's it. All right. Thank you.