 Well, it is time for us to move on to another interesting and lightning panel discussion talking about connected TV challenges and opportunities for marketers. But with this, let's welcome our esteemed panelists with what Ajay Kakar, CMO, Aditya Billa Capital, Ateet Mehta, Head Marketing, Vaju, who will be joining us shortly. Deba Ghoshal, Vice President and Head of Marketing Botas Limited and Session Chair, being Mohit Joshi, CEO of Havas Media Group India. But with this, we'd really like to welcome all our esteemed panelists. It's going to be a great discussion and we're looking forward for this exciting discussion. Mr Joshi also, Mr Kakar is expected to join us shortly. So with this, I just pass on the live agent to you to take it off with your panel. Over to you and welcome once again. Thanks Bhavna. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. I welcome Deba, my co-panelist and Hi Mohit. I'm waiting for Ajay also to join. I think we'll give him a couple of minutes because I'm sure he's joining any moment. And it's a pleasant afternoon. I'm sure the sessions have been going on. I was going through the session list and I've been very, very exciting and invigorating sessions. So let's hope that this one is equally engrossing for our viewers. And I don't see Ajay having joined. So we'll just wait for another minute before he joins. Sure. So Mr Joshi, what we can do for the time being, maybe we can start and start the conversation. Of course, we've got Mr Bolshan with us already. And Ajay also could be shortly joining us. So maybe, you know, just getting the crux of the topic. And once he's in, I will personally just throw him in the screen as well. Sure, sure. Absolutely. So, you know, I think it's a very interesting session that has been given to us, which is around connected TVs and the challenges and opportunities that exist for our brands. And I have Deba, my esteemed co-panelist here, who's the vice president and head of marketing for Boltaz, also my very dear client. And hopefully we'll be having Ajay very soon and Atit towards CN. It's a very interesting time that we are living in. So today's brand equity, I'm sure all of you have seen, which says it has a very interesting article which says that it's time for the almost to become the chief metaverse officers. You know, and that's how fast we are moving in this digital age. Well, that's not going to be the session, the discussion of today's session. We'll, we'll keep it for another day. However, we should acknowledge the fact that connected TVs have been the very foundation stone of the digital disruption that has been going around and which is resulting in the transformation of our universe into a metaverse very, very fast. So I think what we are going to be discussing today is connected TVs India as we know is a country where television rules the rules even today. You know, till 2021, you would have seen the various reports that have come out, whether it's the group M report or the Madison report which still shows, which still shows that that that the television is the medium number one medium when it comes to advertising though digital is picking up very, very fast. And that's going to be another discussion. We have close to about 200 million TV households today and if my estimates are correct connected TV which is very important still is around in the range of about 13 to 14 or at best about 15 million homes. So what we are discussing today is, is, is not something that has reached significant number of people, but where the growth of reach has been very, very fast, and it's reaching a very relevant set of audiences for most of the brands that we talk about. So, you know, moving forward with this thought. We all know that in the age of. So we have Ajay also who's just joined I'll take a minute. Hi Ajay, welcome to the session. So obviously welcome to our panel with what Mr. Joshi was our session try to take it for you. Thanks. Thanks. Once again, Bhavna. Hi Ajay welcome on the session. I just started by giving a context to the whole thing and how today the CMOS have to become the chief Metaverse officers as well as per the latest brand equity. So coming to the main crux of the discussion today in a in an age of connected TVs, which is what we are discussing with increased data penetration and availability of global content advertisers are wanting to achieve the reach of television with the benefits of digital advertising obviously you as advertisers want the best of both worlds and which is what is relevant and correct to ask for. Now in this context I want to ask both of you and I'll start with Deba. Since CTV combines the best aspects of digital video and TV, what are the opportunities that you see for brands in India when it comes to connected TVs. So Deba, if I could start the question by proposing the question to you. Thanks Mohit and good to see you here. And thank you the entire team for bringing us on board on for this conversation. This is a very niche segment for for a brand like Volta's which is an all India player and and the leader in its own category. So, but we are looking at it very seriously as we progress, you know, towards towards this segment, last two years we have seen a lot of traction and as suggested by all experts we should be there in the segment as such. But let me just take a step back and just tell you what's happening. As far as, you know, the way we see it from a device perspective, being in the consumer business. I'll just share some figures with you in India after the transition from analog TVs to digital TVs now to smart TVs. There's a huge number which is being created every year. It's being added every year to every household. Now almost India sells approximately 12 to 13 million TVs every year. That means it goes to every household right out of that. Just guess how much is smart TV. Anybody's guess is 85% now 85% of TV sold in this country are smart TVs potential to connect. So if that is happening on a yearly basis, what's happening to the usage of the smart TVs, that should also grow significantly but that's not happening. Because of various factors, could be data penetration could be could be various other factors which could be, you know, not contributing towards the actual usage of smart TVs. So I would say from a device perspective, we are in the right track, everybody, everybody wants to buy a smart TV and wants to stay connected. From a content perspective, we are on the right track, there's a lot of content being created and people aspire to be a part of the content. Somewhere, the usage is not so high as you correctly said 15 million is the is the usage of connected TVs in over a base of 200 million CNS households. So that's that's just 7%. Now, somewhere this this whole this whole progress of buying a television which is smart and using it effectively, we need to we need to ensure that it happens over a period of time. That's that's my initial thought towards this whole discussion that you need to have a device which connects and if you have a device which connects you need to bandwidth or data which connects you to that content right. If that is there, there's a story over here. There's a case over here. That's all the stuff I think. Yes, thanks. I think 85% is this is a is a astonishing number that you just mentioned and makes us all think about how how how this whole thing is moving forward, you know, the connected TVs as as as a device. So thanks for your inputs. That was my question to Ajay. So again, the question is given the situation in which we are since CTV technically combines the best aspect of both the digital video and television. What are the opportunities for the brands in India as per, you know, you and your experiences with your own brand as well as environments around you. So, I'd say these are early or if I may say very early days, I was relying on the Madison before and report and according to that connected TVs is that around 40 odd million and expected to grow four times in about the next three years of 2025 as they said. So the first opportunity is to reach out to a very niche audience in relatively larger numbers than where we are today. I think that's one big opportunity or that's an opportunity for an advertiser. The second is the fact that with a mobile first order mobile addicted customer base, you now have the mobile screen coming back. And you know what a mobile screen allows you to do versus what a small screen constraints you from doing. The third is the fact that because it's a large screen you can target multiple users at the same time. It's not the private viewing or the personal viewing that a mobile restricted you to the next one. We are told because of these benefits sharper targeting as against let's say the linear TV most definitely that this media allows you. So with connected TV, I can do sharper targeting and it can impact and monitored impact to the fun. So I think this is the IP if I can actually track I can sound like an investor in this medium, rather than just a spender on this medium because I can show what is the top of funnel and I can show what have I got out of that funnel. So these are the four or five opportunities I think that it presents to advertisers. Great, I mean, the fact that you said investor versus a spender in the medium it's a very interesting thought, and I think it's a change of mindset as well because when we talk about advertising budgets, then normally look that as pins but happy that you're, you're mentioning them as investments because that's what essentially they are. And now my second question will will come from there itself. Yes, sharper targeting. Yes, better possibilities of slicing and dicing the data, but then the costs also start going up right. And end of the day, there is a very thin line between the, you know, the cost versus the quality and the, and the cost and somewhere we have to balance both of them. And in an in a country like India, where the discussion happens purely on costs, a cost per thousand on television will I mean mass television will any day we much, much, much better and lucrative compared to any other medium, at least for the next few years right. So how do you see an agile I'll come to you with with this, how do you see the brands reaching out to the audiences through CTV in a cost effective manner, how do you, I mean you you made a very relevant point about investment versus spends. So, how do you judge cost in an environment like this. And then what what is your perspective on that. What for example if you sell a luxury product. Well the cost will be higher, but the gain will also be higher wanted the margins are much higher so similarly out here in our context the way I look at it is that this is one medium, the connected TV is one medium which allows you to reach the affluent. Okay. Yes, and just when India's trying to catch up on smart TVs you're looking one ahead of the pack, which is your connected TVs. It reflects the viewership of TV so it allows you to reach out to women. It allows you to localize your messaging. So the advantages that it gives today and that's why I'm calling it an investment investments give benefit or returns as you know in the term. And therefore I look at it right now I look at the cost as an investment and the minute I look at it as an investment. I am evaluating it on these filters. It gives me specific focused targeting abilities which are not available to me otherwise. It allows me to localize it, which is not possible otherwise. It allows me co viewing opportunities. I'm reaching out to one but I'm covering many as against the mobile first, which I spoke about, and it gives me viewership for long form content. So therefore, it allows me to make an emotional connect. If my content is right. So if I have these ingredients right, starting with the content to is a product which is right for this profile of audience. Today, I can accept a slightly higher cost for what I believe will be a slightly higher return point taken. Absolutely. I agree with you at a personal level on on this particular front and happy that that you know we we are aligned on that particular front I also personally feel that it's the cause that you're putting for for for for building a brand in a very, very, very enclosed and selective environment, the engagements are significantly higher, and hence somewhere you you are able to justify the cost, the higher cost or the high investment. If I may use your terminology to justify that in a very good way. With this I'll, I'll, I'll come over to Deba and Deba you know, we spoke about the possibilities, the cost angle. Now, now let me talk about the the inventory angle so for a consumer it doesn't matter the consumer is is looking at content right and the content could be coming from a connected TV could be coming from regular television could be coming from a fire stick anywhere. Now, and that's why the inventories are spread across multiple sources like the streaming devices, the smart TV makers, the digital video publishers. So, how do in that environment, do you have a concern how do brands access quality inventory without any hassle because you know when I'm talking about a non connected TV, I'm talking about the inventory that the channel has and clearly getting getting getting exposed within that environment right here when I'm talking about a YouTube environment, there are various environments from where the ads are being pushed into that domain. So, how do you see that as an as an as an advantage, or do you see that as a challenge, what has been your experience. I think brands have to be have to follow a very simple, simple tool of, of deciding where to go on this front. If you just look at what are we looking at looking at connection, we're looking at context, we're looking at content right you just follow these three principles. I think you can, you can be home in terms of choosing the right inventory. Also, I personally feel that you know you need, you need not be placed just this place nearly placed I would say you need to look at the creative which you're using in such a medium because the creative makes a lot of impact in the way it is being used in such a media. So, I don't think the regular stuff will will work here in terms of creating that engagement with the audience. I think it's unique to move beyond placements, you need to move beyond looking at it from a very conventional perspective and you can look at it from a perspective that is the creative fitting the bill of the medium. And I think it's important to keep in mind, as a brand. Also, one needs to look at, as Ajay correctly pointed out that one needs to look at what is a PG, which you're addressing, and whether, whether, whether your TG agnostic or your TG specific that's something you need to keep in mind. Because many times people forget that you know, let's let's go and let's speak the whole floor, irrespective of what we are talking to, especially when the absolute value of investment is not so high. I know you spoke about the cost, but many marketers forget about this cause because when I look at this cause vis-à-vis the overall media plan, they feel okay fine let's take a chance. And that doesn't hurt them too much. So then what happens is that because of the risk, which they take, they forget about, you know, creating that content which is getting that creative which is more appropriate for this medium. So I think combination of these factors should be considered by marketers whether it is whether you have big budgets or small budgets. You need to align the content of your communication with the content of the platform, so that you're home with the audience. That's my take. Thank you so much. Thanks, Deba. Ajay, if I may have your views on that, you know, given that the ad inventory is spread across multiple sources there. So how do you access quality inventory or what has been your experience? That is a challenge, no doubt on that. But again, if you look at where was I yesterday or even possibly today. If I'm on linear TV, I am buying inventory depending on trends, depending on projections, depending on gut. I'm choosing a particular channel, I'm choosing a particular program, I'm choosing a particular time. And if my consumer is there at that channel at that program on that time, my inventory will be seen. Here, I am going to inventory by choice whenever a customer sees it. Well, I will be there. Now I have to decide and that's the opportunity of plenty, right. Where do I back my inventory. And therefore, to that extent, I think brands can target CTV consumers programmatically where one can profile the target audience and through artificial intelligence, or, you know, automation. And the brand can buy inventory accordingly. So I think there is a challenge, but there is also an opportunity as against where I'm coming from or the alternate that I have. Got it. Absolutely. So, you know, understood. So talking to a very select set of audiences, we can pay a higher cost because you are connecting with that quality set of audiences with that in the right context with the right content as they were specifically put out and as you said, you're connecting and hence, there is a possibility of spending on a higher, you know, cost per CPM compared to other environments. Now, let me talk about the challenge one very obvious challenge is, and I want to have your point of views on this is that while we would want to, we would want to test out. If I had a television plan when I would go with a television plan, a CTV plus a normal TV plan. Are they measuring capacities, capacities where you could build the reach of of CTV on top of the linear TV. Now, while every agency would have its own model and so to be right but at an industry level. People have a challenge over there. Right. And I want to hear from both of you on that particular front while you know, digitally digital per se can be 100% measured CTV on its own can be measured but as a marketer both of you would want to know if I'm taking how is it adding incremental reach or incremental, incremental layer of visibility on my, my regular television plan. Right. And that's where I have personally seen a challenge coming when it comes to measurability research, or, or, or those elements. So, Ajay, if I may start with you what has been your experience and you see that as a challenge or, and how do you handle it in in situations like that. This has possibly been the bane of our industry for years right for decades if I may say, measurability point number one, where two of us sitting around the same table have the same measurability, even for the same medium, and I'm talking digital at this time. So if you look at connected TV, that problem does exist that you added a new opportunity you added a new layer, but you do not have a way of being able to measure a standard measurement system across channels or across platforms. So on one hand, I think a standard measurement system is imperative. It's a long, long drawn ask a long drawn expectation that marketers or brands have, and I don't know how soon we can fulfill that, because the minute you have that one can compare between different channels to see the full potential of CTV so I think the owners will going to be on the industry to prove that they can get your incremental value for which they will have to create benchmarks versus what I'm currently getting and kind of accepted or reconcile myself with. I think the owners will be on them to quickly prove because like I've given an earlier reference if you're buying a luxury product. You have to tell me that I've earned a badge value. Right when I wear that watch, everyone's looking at me saying wow. Here you have to marketers want the wow in a measurable way in a comparative way and a tangible way. I think this pressure or this ask is going to remain on the provider's office. Yes, we have that challenge, I have that challenge at my end to give that data across to you. Deba, you are aligned on that thought as well because I think it's a challenge which is which is constant across. But I think I'll be a little hard little less harsh on this platform because you see this is a very small platform and it's going to grow. So what's going to happen is if you get the numbers behind this platform, you will automatically invest in measuring systems right right now it's it's taken for granted that you know it's a small media it's a niche. It's called luxury and niche still because you know I'll wait for it for a time when this whole platform becomes actually larger in size and more becomes more more effective for large grants. So, you know, if this is the context, and if the numbers grow, you will surely you will surely put in mechanism in place, which will give us the right kind of output right today we are a little bit in the dark about what what's happening on this platform in terms of investment but I think if the platform grows in numbers automatically they will be mechanism in place and they will be investing a lot more on these on the systems which I was talking about. So I have I have faith in this system for the future because if the number comes up numbers come up, then of course investments in systems will also be there and we'll get a more, you'll get a more transparent return on whatever we invest in. Can I add to that. Yeah please. So what I feel is that if at the end of the day, the whole story of chicken and egg that what comes first. As an industry, we will be looking at potential spenders like this. If we say that put your money and faith in my medium, I will tell you tomorrow why it was worth your life as against if we first invest and say here take this is what we are giving you visa be the other. Now tell me why will you not chase me. I think the growth and the chaser taste equation will change if as an industry we first invest and then reap the benefits. Just a point of view. No fair point absolutely I mean and I agree with the with the analogy that it's a chicken and egg and I as as as a media agency, you know, when I come with a with with the recommendation to you, you know, how do I sell it across to you is very very critical and that's where if I have use cases if I have if I have data to substantiate and prove and and build the reach on top of an existing television plan, I will be able to sell it more. I would say convincingly and and then you will be able to accept it more convincingly and I think that that that challenge always exists. We need to come out of these cohorts, specifically you know, digital versus offline and and the integrated way of planning is the way forward. In fact, we talk about planning audio visual planning because, as I was saying it's not consumer is not in is not specifically watching a particular channel, the consumer is watching content and the content could be anywhere and and in today's day and age, there is no concept of TV planning I I considered it to be an audio visual planning where there are so many other other environments on which you need to have your brand presence so thanks for your inputs on that now. You, you did mention and touched upon it and I just want to ask you a little more in detail, given that you know, CTV is is is one of the best platforms from a programmatic advertising perspective right and and obviously programmatic advertising will offer real time measurement and better control on the ad frequency so how do you see that do you see that as a reality. What is your experience and how do you see, because tomorrow there have been a lot of discussions about television becoming 100% programmatic in India, obviously it will not happen it will start with the CTV and slowly start percolating into into traditional TV as well. There are countries where television has become 100% programmatic in the West, but then again it's not linear TV it's all connected TV in those specific countries so you didn't did fleetingly mentioned in one of your responses around the the the the possibility of programmatic advertising on CTV wanted to just ask you to elaborate that a little more for me. I see it as a one way journey today promises to be the best platform that we have for programmatic advertising. On one hand it offers real time measurement and the fact is that with current penetration and the expected penetration that we are all talking about and it could be conservative because this is early times and like I said just yesterday I heard it on YouTube at 40 odd million. It does seem to be one of the best platforms to capture the attention of the users. Now, the question will remain which I'd alluded to earlier also is the content. If you have time and you ask me a next question I'll give you all the caveats I believe. So on one hand I believe connected TV is manner from the sky, it has all the promises that one wants and expects, but there are certain caveats, and in the caveats content will become an important one because on one hand it gives you the opportunity to engage because it's long format content that I can use on the other hand, I don't want to see ads right. And if you're going to give me the old format ads in a new medium, if you're yet going to give me banners and you're yet going to give me statics and you're yet going to give me pre roles. I think the advertising or the communication and the formats of that will actually help give life to what I'm saying is the most promising platform today for programmatic advertising. Got it, got it, you know, very, very relevant deba what is your experience in this and do you agree with Ajay on the fact that in a digital environment the kind of content and the ads that one needs to have would will have to be very different, or progressive compared to linear TV and and vice versa. Sorry, I was mute. Yeah, 100% I in fact I spoke about it earlier much that you know, this this this is a given. Yes, you can't expect the same, the same content of communication to be there on this platform, you know, it's, it becomes too inclusive and then, you know, it loses charm completely. I think you need to really customize need to be very accurate in your content, whatever you're creating, you need to make some investments on your content, you just can't see that I've done something this thing and it will go all across the board for this campaign. It won't happen like that. So I think we need to be a little more aggressive when we make the investments behind our own content. And then customize it accordingly. That's what people don't do. People say that you know, let me save any here and if any there but what happens is that then you then you lose the charm of the media or the medium and you don't customize your content accordingly. So you need to be a little more smarter here and see the long term returns of this platform and invest in customized content for this platform. Great. I mean, completely agree with both of you on that particular front. As you said the context and the content is very, very critical, both of you mentioned then and emphasize that I completely agree with you on that particular front and we need to together make this new medium, more work harder for our brands and somewhere you know you as as clients and we as agencies have this have this responsibility, collective responsibility of doing that. Now, I would keep this question open. You know, it could be your own brands or it could be some other brands that you have seen around you. Any interesting case studies around connected TVs where where you've seen a brand leveraging connected TV advertising, you know, and I'm sure all of you are CTV viewers in your own rights because you know, at least this this audience over here would be a CTV. So, any any specific case study brands that come to your mind, which you feel have leveraged connected TVs. Well, anything that that anything that comes to your mind, I'll keep it open so whoever between Ajay and Deba wants to respond on this. Personally, I think it's too early to bring out the champagne. I think we're yet getting used to the medium what it allows us to do how it allows us to do. And therefore right now it is. We've also tried for us to be able to become master of the art for this platform and create content create formats that are for this platform, and then show and share benefits because like on one hand we said you can get attribution panel. The true test is when a brand has cracked the model, invested in it and reap the benefits. I think it's too early days to cop the champagne. Point taken Deba, you agree with that. Yeah, 100% you know, I think we need a long tail over here, which is missing. I think that's something we need to create. I think it will get created and I think I am very bullish on this. I know, again, coming from the industry, you know, from a different industry or media industry, but CDID industry, which you call it consumable industry, you know, you need to we need to look at the pricing of smart TV which is going down every year, it's the ASPs are shooting down year after year 35 inches and above which you are what you were buying five years back are very much affordable. So that's going to drive this whole cat in whole medium asset because more smart TV is going to come in. So I think the pricing of smart TVs will play a vital role in this whole game. Of course, global content as we all know will play a vital role. Local content of course is already playing a big role. And lastly, the data penetration, which is a critical factor to convert that device into actually a live device, right? That's something we need to look at because if these three things come together, I think you have a business here. Got it. Absolutely. Now we're coming to the end of our session and I'll open it for some questions as well. But before we do that, just wanted to ask you on a personal note, I'm sure you have been interacting with your own CTVs for a very long time. And especially during the pandemic, it gave us a little more time compared to pre-pandemic to a little more. So any show, any content that comes top of your mind which you loved, which you saw on connected TVs during this particular period that stands out and content I'm talking about, or it could even be an ad, anything that stands out top of your mind for both of you. Ajay, if I may start with you. For me, I'm embarrassed to say that, and that's why I hope to be able to spend a few minutes if you allow me later on the drinks. I think I'm yet to consider myself as a smart TV consumer as against a connected TV consumer. So I'm yet using connected TV to enjoy the benefits which I would have got from smart TV any which way. I haven't looked at it as well, I have gone one degree ahead, now every three months I can get an upgraded experience. I can, I do, what I'm saying is mindset wise, I'm yet that smart TV. So I think whatever I have enjoyed, I could have enjoyed if I was just a smart TV consumer as much as I'm a connected TV consumer. So I'm personally somewhere there. Point taken, point taken. Well, I'm not a screen guy personally, I don't get the time. So unfortunately, all of us have the same board. But yeah, whatever I observe around me personally around my family, at a personal level, I see my young son watching a lot of stuff. So euphoria is something which I heard about is doing very well in that segment below 30. So I'm keeping a track on that. And so I generally keep a track at a personal level with an interest in mind. The interest is what's happening in this early on. So 30 minus is something which is really hot. And I think the content is happening in that space. 30 plus is some in that space, the content of the little predictable. So, so that's what I observe and I'm not really into it myself, but yes. Great. You mentioned that you wanted to talk about the the Bains if I would you want to. Yeah, I would because I don't want to be all one way. So David has talked about David has talked about all the advantages that the costs are coming down, whether of smart TV, whether of connectivity, whether of, you know, the content prices are coming down. So accessibility and connectivity is increasing. You will have a great search in the audience. All of that is, I'm really looking forward to that. The, the chinks or the buyer beware that I wanted to share with the first one is that it is going to be a concept set. It's going to be a concept set. If you look at audiences per se aspiration value is like I talked to you in my own context is yet smart TV. I read smart TV I have arrived. Who is going to tell me that I miss something and there's something called connected TV as a consumer. I'm saying as the consumer. Maybe a learned consumer, maybe a niche consumer but first I'm saying it's a concept set. The second is that you are betting on the Indian who I told you is a mobile first or elected consumer who is a private content viewer. I'm happy to look at the big screen again, which is shared content. The third one I feel is that the content will become the most important and again repeating the content and the format of the content. It cannot be old wine new bottles. So if you give me the same formats of communication, I think it's going to be a limited success. And if you start looking at things like okay I will put a QR code in my head etc. Then you're asking a TV customer or viewer to go to a mobile and then marry the two. So I think the faster we realize that we have a catch up game a concept sell to marketers or to viewers or to users, otherwise knowing this word in the next three four five years we don't know. Before we achieve maturity for connected TV, we may have some new format in front of us. So therefore I think we should be aware of the chinks where we have to all individually and collectively invest, whether in content whether in format whether in measurement, whether in engaging with this medium per se as advertisers, and get it a faster momentum before time and technology tells us that even this one is dated. Thank you so much I think that's very well put. So, you know I'll just just just summarize a few things that that stood out for me so the first thing was obviously investment versus spending and, and I think that that's something to be very, very cautious, very, very cognizant of as, as, as marketers as well as as media specialists, we need to take this medium more as an invest investment environment. We spoke about the being TG agnostic versus TG specific and that's something that again is very, very important. And then we are talking about this medium we're talking about the TG specific and, and once we start looking at the TG specific with the TG specific filter in mind, the costs will not look at will will not come across as cost but as investments, we also spoke about the concept cell. I think that's, that's absolutely critical. We need to start at that, given the numbers the way they are and given the fact that traditional TV has been this country for such a long time and and has its own advantages let's not forget the fact that, that we still have challenges of data research and, and, and more importantly, a common panel where we can look at, look at the incremental reach that one is getting on television plans through connected TVs, and also very interesting It's not about, you know, graduating from smart TV to connected TV because you know, while we feel that what the moment you have a connected TV smart TV, you automatically get into a connected TV environment but I think there is a thin line of graduation there as well So, these are very, very interesting points that that came across thanks Deba. Thanks, Ajay for your for your for your very, very relevant pointers. I do not have a kid because he had to rush into a meeting with the founders and but I think we had a great session with with Deba and Ajay thank you for your for your point of views and hope we had a good session. Thanks, Bhavna and over to you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Joshi. I have to say that you know we were absolutely glued to the screen and a lot of responses coming in from the audience. So we'd like to thank our panelists thank you so much, Mr. Gosha and thank you so much for those views you brought about and the fourth edition of TV first, it definitely enlightened us on a lot of aspects. Thank you once again. Thank you so much. Thanks Deba. Thanks Ajay. Thank you. Thank you.