 And we're back with another great session. We've got Carnell Smith up. He is the number one expert in America on paternity fraud, has a lot of other helpful things to say. He's an author, he's an advocate, he's a coach to men. He's out there to help young boys. He's out there to help men in marriage and men on the other side of a nasty divorce. Would you please welcome Carnell Smith to the stage? All right. Thank you, Pastor Mike. All right. All righty. Good day. How are you? As you've heard, I'm Carnell Smith. I am the paternity coach. And what comes to mind when you hear the words paternity coach? No, I don't teach people how to get pregnant. Instead, in applying the name of paternity coach, it is what do you do when you have questions and concerns about family identity? Because you are either related to a child or you are not. And depending on what the answer to that question is, it will determine what strategies you need to apply on what you just choose to do next. So as you can see, I'm also the author of Trap by Law. It's my first book. I have a couple of others in the works. And it's Trap by Law Stopping Child Support for Paternity Fraud. And I'm deemed controversial by some. A lot of women organizations do not like me. And I don't care. And they say, you men, you support the patriarchy. I'm like, yes, I do. Yes, I do. I find that in relating to men that we are very honorable when it comes to dealing with matters on truth, fact, fairness, and justice. And rarely do I find men wanting to take advantage of women as much as I see in the family law arena where oftentimes men are being used and abused in a family court arena that tends to view them strictly by their resources, making money for the state, making money for the court, and making money for mom. Wow, what a deal. All right. As you can see here, I'm also a guy who works with the women's organization, a 501C3 organization called the Women Against Paternity Fraud. I also founded the Citizens Against Paternity Fraud. And due to my own experience with the topic, I ended up forming my own DNA services, provided legal DNA services worldwide through four-true identity. I thought that it made sense to make sure we offer more DNA testing and not less. I co-founded the National Family Justice Association. I've been cameoed in the Red Pill movie, also in the Hauses of the State movie, produced a multimedia project called Real Life. I participated in a academic study called the Paternity Fraud Survey because I recognized that there need to be services for men and boys who are affected by this issue. Largely, taxpayer funds are often taken from men, but yet when men need services, men are often excluded. There's something just not quite right about that and it didn't sit well with me. So I was willing to participate in this so that we could highlight from an academic and a peer-reviewed study point of view, what are the issues that men and boys face when encountering Paternity Fraud? And I also am the creator of the Neck and Truth University. It's a workshop that I've conducted for over six years in helping men and fathers who wanted to do something about their legal situation, but they also needed to have some mind-shift mentality to help them avoid repeating the things that got them into a trap in the first place. All right, that is me. I'm also featured on the Dr. Fields show. The show was called Parent Trap. And what I think would be a moderate degree of success, I've been featured in Time Magazine, Reason Magazine, in addition to being on the Dr. Fields show with one of my clients. I only point these things out because so many people told me there's nothing you could do about an injustice. Well, if someone is willing to work with mass media and major media networks and become strategic in their messaging, then they can leverage helping the media with a good story while they also reach more victims and family members and lawmakers to help bring about change. A strategic approach, something that I copied off of a famous guy you may have heard of, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He himself was not affected by many of the things that he spoke about, but he had the microphone, he had the voice, he had the platform. So I studied what he did to help bring attention to things that were unjust, unfair, unrighteous, and that he needed to have something done about them. I'll skip the video. I wanna just say this in terms of what level of success was achieved in getting the law changed in my own state. First, how did I come in contact with the issue? Like so many men and boys, I was lied to. I was duped, I was snuckered, I was fuckabooved, I was played by ex-girlfriend who she said these words that I will model after Chris Rock the actor. She said, that's your baby. And it turned out 11 years later, I found out it was a huge lie. That lie was so big, man, you couldn't fit it in this room. But if you've heard anything about intimate partner relationships, often men and boys are taken advantage of in this way because we don't know that the child's mother has one or more intimate partners during the window of conception that she said he did it. And the family court operates in such a way that if she said you did it, you did it. You are presumed guilty and then it is on you to prove to the contrary. And there's some problems with that. So what's the problem? So to have any kind of conversation, we gotta have some kind of common defining of terms. I think that would be reasonably fair. But ternity fraud is when the mother or legal guardian of a child, they file a lawsuit claiming or alleging that the male is the biological father of the child. Look, key words here. Without advising him, without advising the government officials and the courts that someone else could be the father. This is not an accident. And out of all of the people who were involved, there's only one person in that scenario who knows there are other potential paternity candidate that exists. And who is she? The child's mother. And she knowingly and willingly conceals the existence of that other guy or other men from the guy who she might want really hard to be the father. That's the guy she's in love with and he's already into the relationship with her. And she wants to bring him back into the relationship using a bait baby. If you've ever heard of fishing, you can't catch fish without bait, right? Well, how do you get access to the guy's resources and get the full weight and enforcement of the court system all the way up to the attorney general's office in a state? If you can get that guy to believe that he's the father and you can get him to put his name on a document based on that belief, it'll get you access that is enforceable under pay or go to jail. That doesn't sound like a real good deal when it presented that way. And some women groups have hated me for saying it like that. But you know, a lie dressed up like a pig with lipstick on it's still a pig, right? You can't blame me about the presentation when the facts don't always agree with your feelings. And what I say to the rad feminists, the facts don't care about your feelings. The facts are, there is no current law that requires a full and truthful disclosure of all material facts to who? To the alleged father, keyword. Alleged, presumed, was told he was. Now my father comes from a generation where they had this little very famous song that says, smile and faces sometimes don't tell the truth. Which is amazing to me because when I got to court, they insisted, I mean, all but demanded that I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. See if I had kind of like played it shady with my financial affidavit and say, you know what, I didn't really make six figures, your honor. No, I didn't, no, I didn't, no, I did not make that bunch of money. Your honor, I only made $1,000 the whole year and therefore you should base my child support on that $1,000 for the whole year. Now as asinine as that sounds, you were like, man, there's no way you could pitch that idea and get away with it. But yet, a child's mother who has to submit no proof that a husband, boyfriend, fiance, one nightstand, she is not required to submit any proof that that guy is a father. That says to me there's potential for fraud. Listen to what some appellate court judges have said. And this is the United States Supreme Court of the United States. In the field of contested paternity, the truth is so often obscured because social pressures create a conspiracy of silence or worse, deliberate falsity, AKA lying on purpose. Say, well, how does this apply? The courts don't ask the mothers the relevant question. The relevant question is, did you have intimate relations with anyone else beside the accused during your window of conception? They don't want to ask that question. Why? That would narrow the field of people who she can point at. What else the judge said? The person that alleged to be the father has a legitimate interest, a legitimate interest in not being declared the father of a child. He had no hand in bringing into the world. It is important to him that he not be required to provide support and direct financial assistance to one not his child. I think that's a right decision. And since it's coming from the United States Supreme Court, or better yet, we refer to SCOTUS as Supreme Court of the United States, that is a 1987 decision when I was doing legal research to try to help my case. In my own state, the appellate court in Georgia said, not only has the putative father been cock-holded, the law adds injury to insult by requiring him to pay child support even after he established he is not the biological father. He has been framed for a pregnancy that he did not commit and he has proof that he did not commit. He has legally admissible proof. He's not the father, he never was the father, he will never be the biological father and doesn't matter how much the child's mother cries and say, but I believed he was my baby's daddy. I want him to be the baby's daddy. I've gotten used to getting that $330,000 a month check. And you think that number is imaginary. I'll show you later in the slide, there is a guy who actually ended up paying $330,000 per month for child support and the key had turned out to not be his and he was just as ticked about it as I was about being sued for $1,800 a month. Men do not like being taken advantage of. We don't like being manipulated. We don't like being threatened. We don't like having an ultimatum of you either pay it or you go to jail and once the balance exceeds $2,501, you are facing a felony prison conviction for what they call child abandonment. Does that sound like a good deal to anybody? Yeah, the state loves it. It is a rather revenue generating activity. So to create fiction in this matter does not make the male the biological father of the child. It simply makes him the victim of the law. While the courts may preach their false policy, they lose the respect of any citizen with common sense. The legislature should address this issue. Man, when I saw that statement from a pellet court judge, I said, hallelujah, somebody with some common sense. The judge got it right. So guess what I did? I took the issue before my state lawmakers and we got the law changed with the full legislative support of the House of Representatives, 163 to zero. And into my house of Senate, 45 to five. And the governor who I had brought the issue to a year prior, he told me a year prior to that. He says, there's nothing I can do about it. I understand what you're saying. However, unless legislation comes across my desk, even though I am the leader of terms of the executive branch of the state government, there's nothing I can do until a bill comes across my desk. I said, I got you, I'll be back. And in one year, thank God almighty for his help and his favor, in one year we came back while at the same time my own case was going up to the United States Supreme Court. And I watched the governor sign it in the law with the judge from my case there and the judge on my case apologized and said his previous ruling was wrong. How's that for some poetic justice? Now mind you, while we're having that conversation, I'm still facing that pay or go to jail order. And this judge can no longer rule on the case. But he wanted to get, I guess maybe some conscious matter, you know, and when my lawyers told me he wanted to talk to me, he was not on my list of people I ever wanted to talk to again. But I figured if he was big enough to come to the signing of the bill, I was gonna be man enough to hear what he had to say. He stuck his hand out and apologized and said I was wrong and I'm glad that the law has changed. That further emboldened me. That emboldened me so much so that once the United States Supreme Court had two meetings on my case, they made me send them a copy of the Georgia law and then they sent me back a letter with one line and it said petition to grant certiori denied. I was not exactly the happiest fellow that you could believe right then. And according to most people, you can't do anything after you've appealed to the highest court in the land. Now there are some radical people like myself who believe there is a court that's higher than the United States Supreme Court. There's a court that's so high that every judge is gonna have to bow down to this court. And that's gonna be the court where God is the king. And at that moment in time, I believe he reminded me of some things that I had written into the law. And I remember what I wrote in and I was like, wait a minute, hold on, this case is not over. Using the things that I wrote into the Georgia law with my state lawmakers, I went back to court and on February 6th, 2003, I won. I won my case as the first person using the law and walked out with two television cameras in the courtroom saying to myself, free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty, I'm free at last. My family's not gonna risk me going to prison. My newborn baby and my wife at home are not gonna become homeless. And with the stroke of a pen, it wiped out all of the payments that I had not paid. And it wiped out all of the future payments cause I wasn't willing to agree to pay anything. Once I knew the truth. And it gave the mother 30 days to get my name removed off the birth certificate and provide me with a certified copy. But I did say this to her. I said, listen, my family and I, we love your daughter. We would love to continue to see her and we'll do things for her directly but not put money in your hands. She said, if you're not willing to stay under the court order, you can't see her unless you pay for supervised visitation. I'm like, man, this just, there's no reasoning here. And I declined that offer cause I would have to pay for supervised visitation. So I haven't seen the child. She is now a college graduate. And somehow she is angry with me for exposing paternity fraud worldwide. Thanks to be being on the show, Dr. Fields' show called Parent Trap with one of my clients, a doctor whose wife lied to him, had an affair with her coworker. And my client being the doctor on staff at two hospitals, he made a lot more money than the high school counselor she had to affair with. So when asked, should my client still pay her? The ex-wife said, yes. She wanted that $3,000 a month. She was insistent on getting it. Must of her surprise, Dr. Fields chewed her out and told her, you are the fault of this whole mess, lady. I was rather proud of Dr. Fields. So this has led to paternity fraud being exposed in over 145 countries. And that show has become so popular that it's reared over seven times. And I hear from people worldwide, but yet some countries don't wanna take the position that paternity fraud needs to be stopped. France passed a law saying that men could not get a paternity test without permission of the child's mother. What? Does that make sense to anybody? She's the person who had the affair. She's the person who lied to the guy. She's the person who had multiple other potential candidates. Is she going to agree to a paternity test that will expose the truth? Nope. So does the guy risk going to jail to get legally admissible evidence that he could then use to sue her? I don't tell people what to do when there's law that's against them, but I tell them, I says, you know, we as men, we tend to be pretty good at risk assessment calculators. What will it cost you to pay her for another 15 years of ever increasing payments? Cause she's not gonna be happy with the current amount. If you start making more money, then you need to make a quality informed decision. Y'all see me, right? A quality informed decision. Do you wanna remain trapped? You can't blame the men, right? Cause most of them say, oh yeah, I want out of this trap. What have we found out? What have we discovered? Cause my state lawmaker said, all right, we understand that you have men in this room right now who are paternity fraud victims from the United States armed forces, from the army, navy, marines, the coast guard, from people who are pretty much every walk of life. We had those men in the room and I've met five pastores who are paternity fraud victims. Yes, I said it, clergymen are not exempt. So I leveraged the clergymen to help me reach the faith-based community because as much as society has become a cesspool, in my opinion, from embracing the impact of the radical feminist ideology, some of them have allowed that cesspool into their churches. And as a result, you have women who cheat on their husbands in the church. And for one pastor, the only way he found out, a guy called him up and says, hey man, I want you to get your name off my son's birth certificate. I told your wife to tell you that baby is mine. So when they said, you need to give us some more data. So I contacted the DNA lab that was providing all of the services through child support enforcement for my state and using the Freedom of Information Act, you ever heard of FOIA? I asked for the aggregated data for three calendar years and I wanted to know how many have you tested and what was the exclusion ratio? So out of all the people you tested, how many turned out not be the dads? They said, we tested 90,000 guys and out of the 90,000 we tested, a little over 30,000 of them turned out to not be related to the child that the mother swore was the father. So then I said, well, tell you what, let me get a better data sample. Let me go to the accrediting body that certifies all of these DNA labs to be able to do legal family identity testing. Cause sometime that identity is for paternity, sometime it's for maternity and our immigration laws also use these services. And roughly 450,000 per year are tested and nationally for 45 different labs, they said 30% of the guys tested nationally turned out to not be the dads. Now I don't know about you, but I believe if you're testing for an issue and you find out 30% of it was supposed to be true and it wasn't, I say we should do more testing so that we can get a better data sample, right? Right? Cause if you tested 30% people in a particular city or county and they had come up with this God awful pandemic thing that we supposedly have gotten a review mirror, you would think you need to get more people tested so if you decide there are some services that should be rendered, you would base it on a better data sample, right? I know I'm being a smart alec with this, all right? But my lawmakers were impressed with the fact that I was able to get this data and since that time, the American Association of Blood Bank no longer publishes their annual study on parentage. The information is still available but now is hidden in a study that's called family relations. I was like, well, during, why are you making it harder? I'm like, when people wanna get their state laws reform, they need to find out what's the ratio in their own state based on what taxpayer dollars are paying for and why does that relate to the national? What that simply means everybody is we don't get 100% of the mothers telling the truth. We're probably never gonna get 100% of the mothers to tell the truth and this radical guy said, you know what, we should do DNA testing at birth. I don't even wanna ask the child's mother a thing. Hey, when my baby was born at the hospital, they didn't ask me for all those 20, 30 tests that they ran on the baby. They just did them as part of their battery and then said it was for the child's health. Well, can we not say that getting accurate family identity so that we send the right baby home with the right people is a good idea? Also, so if you're gonna look at family medical history, if someone's on the birth certificate as having created a child, is it a stretch? Is it unreasonable to say, well, all right, well, that's the guy you say fertilized your egg. Well, all I say is let's do like one of those presidents said, we trust but verify. Trust, yes, yep, that is his wife. We want verification that he indeed fertilized that egg and if so, then those people's names should go on that baby's birth certificate and we could be darn sure. The people who go out of the hospital with that baby, they are indeed related to that baby. Now, when I said that some radical feminist groups in including the gay and women's lesbian league came out against me and you would have thought I was son of Satan. They was like, no, you can't do that. I'm like, but why? I mean, you guys say you believe in equality and equality should include equal accountability, right? And equal responsibility and rather than embarrass the child's mother, we just do the test. We don't ask her anything and we'll ensure that the kid gets accurate information on the birth certificate. Well, 30% tells me that ain't gonna happen all the time. So how do men find their way into paternity or are traps? Men and boys find their way through four primary paths. Number one, they sign a confession. V.A.P. means voluntary acknowledgement of paternity. The technique goes like this. They are coached in the hospital and by the way, the hospitals who participate in this program through Title IVD funding, this is a section of the social security section and it works out bonuses and incentive payments to the states, the hospitals who participate in this earn money for getting people to sign up. And it goes like this, get the guy to hold a baby and then tell him how much the baby looks like him and oh, by the way, you do want your baby to have a father, don't you? Now, I appeal to your sensibility. Is there a possibility that this guy might be emotionally disarmed at this time and unable to make a full informed decision that could affect them for the next 18 to 21 years of life? Without legal counsel of signing this document, in some states they have added small print that says if you agree to this, you are waiving your right to a DNA test later. The big print giveth, the small print taketh away. To me, that is emotional manipulation in order to gain a legal upper hand on the guy. Number two, incorrect default judgment. Would you believe me that anybody here in this room could be sued for paternity by someone you don't know? You never met her, you never touched her, but if your name shows up on that judge's paperwork and you don't show up at that hearing, you can be ruled the father of a kid that you don't know, that you are unrelated to simply because you didn't show up at that hearing to assert your defense saying that it's not mine. I don't know her, I didn't touch her. And some of the mothers have gotten so slick with this is that they put their own address down for service or process. So if she's gonna get the papers for the lawsuit, how is the guy going to know about the lawsuit? I'll tell you when he finds out. He finds out when an income deduction order is issued by that court to get his resources. And military men are targets for this one. Cause if you are out of the country, there's a strong possibility you may not make it to that hearing. If you're in combat duty like one gentleman that I know, in order for him to be the father of the child, this woman would have had to been in a gestational period of 13 months for him to be the daddy. Now, most people who understand how pregnancies work know that that's not even biologically possible. But this lady understood the system quite well. She put his name down. He didn't show up. And next thing you know, while he is in combat duty, his paycheck lost a huge bite out of it. Then when he got out, he lost his GI benefits. He lost a whole lot of other resources fighting. And a judge said, yes, this is, yeah, this is unfair, it's unjust, yes, it's fraud. But according to the laws of California, you didn't challenge it in time. What a way to treat our service people. What a way to treat somebody when the child's mother is the one who is manipulating even the very courts and the legal service of process. And dare I say, violating the guy's constitutional rights because you should have a right to be informed of a lawsuit against you so that you could adequately defend yourself. And even when it is discovered that the child's mother lied and she herself may admit later she lied, men are often blamed on the incorrect default judgment saying it's your fault, you didn't show up at court. Number three, the marital presumption. There are states and countries that still support any children born to your wife while you are married to her are automatically yours. Even if you are deployed and out of the country during the window of conception, even if you are legally separated from her, you are working the oil fields in Alaska. She's sunning it up in Miami Beach. You have no physical access to her but because she's still under your name, they will remove the boyfriend's name off the birth certificate and put your name down. What a deal. And I asked, well, what did the guy, what did the guy that was married to do wrong? I'll tell you the one thing he did wrong. As soon as you and her no longer share the same physical address, you gotta take the steps to file for a divorce and get that woman out of your last name because she is a future financial liability that has your freedom tied to it. Number four, mistaken identity. During the early 70s when welfare reform was taking place, a very particular program was put in place called the data match program. And part of that involved skip tracers and some other investigative units that worked with child support enforcement to find a person that they say is trying to avoid his responsibility to pay child support. And yes, there are some guys who will leave a job and jump across a state line. But imagine if your name was Tom Smith. Is there a possibility that there's another Tom Smith in the entire United States? I'm gonna say yeah. So the way it works is they take money first and ask questions second. So using the power of the court and the income deduction order, they can hook up this vacuum hose to your checking account and then suck the money dry out of that thing based on a court order that's in a name that's similar to your name. However, you and the other guy have different social security numbers, have different birth dates, but without some form of identity associated with the court's order, their position has been shown as they take money first. Now it's on you to fight to get your money back. Now, here's a radical question. After your checking account and your savings has been raided, how do you hire legal help so you can fight back? Can we say disadvantaged? Yeah. Is that a good deal? No. I actually came across a case in the news where I'm gonna believe this little boy was about 14. He was ordered to pay child support for a 19-year-old. Think about that for a second. 14-year-old ordered to pay child support for a 19-year-old. And the only fault here is the little boy had the same name as the biological father in that case. And when the boy's mother says, no, no, no, you guys got this wrong, there's no way that my son could be the father of a 19-year-old. Look, rational minded, calm thinking people could say, no man, that dog don't hunt, man, there ain't no way that a 14-year-old could be the father of the 19-year-old. Not possible. Do you know that the child support agency would not drop the order until the mother gets an idea like my services offer? Go public. You know, a lot of the major cities have television investigative consumer news story units. And the squeaky wheel gets oil. Show this lady how to go out there and talk about how the agency was trying to steal their money. And they had proof. And the news media thought that was so unbelievable that this had to be a fluke. They thought it was a one-off, but guess what happened when they did the story? The news of a lot more people started coming in. And as a result, someone made a command decision at the child support enforcement agency. They decided that we need to make this case go away as quickly as possible. And suddenly, you didn't hear a thing. It got resolved, but it didn't get resolved for everybody. So let me tell you what, there is a paternity fraud now in the state of Florida. And it is because of a conversation behind these news-related stories. A young man, his mother was playing with the boy in the yard, and a little boy told the grandmother, I have two daddies, very proudly, stuck his chest out. The grandmother said, hold, wait, say that again. So she calls her son over and said, listen to what the baby just said. And based on that story, this young man went out on YouTube World and found me, the paternity coach, and he contacted me. He says, man, I just found out that I am not the father of this little boy and the little boy knew before I did. So how did the little boy know? His mom had already introduced him to his biological father and she was quite happy with, listen to this, double dipping. She's getting money from the guy she lied to and she's getting money from the biological father. What a deal. Did she see anything wrong with that? Nope. Did she wanna disturb that order? Nope, but yet. In these all four of these scenarios, because I publicized this and this in my book Trap by Law, people said that this is men's fault. Now think about that. I can't convince most rational, you know, logical people. All the guy did on a sign confession was he got emotionally manipulated. On the incorrect default judgment, sometimes the guys make the wrong decision to not show up at court cause he knows he can't be the dad. Sometimes he never knew about the lawsuit until in conduction orders are in place. The married man. Sometimes there's a resistance to be the first one to file the divorce. Hoping your thing can be saved. Let me say this loud and clear. Once she starts sleeping with other people, you need to say I'm done with her. Hello? She needs to be fired. Yes. And get her at your last name as quickly as possible cause she's a financial liability to you. Mistaken identity. If you're not being heard, sometimes you gotta do something strategic and you gotta help, shall we say, bring all the attention and when some dark stuff is going on, I happen to believe once you start putting light on that situation, something will get done about it. Anywhere from $200 a month for the moderate income, low income guy. I found myself around a $1,400 range. You say, what is this cost? If I told a guy that if you sign these documents, you were potentially giving up $856,000 of your own money. Now, I'm not guaranteeing a rate of return at 10%. I use 10% because that's what a lot of the state child support agencies charge men and a few moms who are on child support for arrears, they charge them 10% interest. All right, you might bicker with me about whether or not it's annually compounded or monthly compounded, not the point. But if you were able to put away this kind of money and average a rate of return at 10%, 1,400 a month, hey, that's a pretty good chunk. You could pay for a vet with that, right? You could literally go to the lot and tell them, no man, I'm not paying, what's the cash price? They ask you how you gonna finance, you say by check. But I actually met a guy who's paid $330,000 a month. Billionaire, the late Kirk Cacourian, major shareholder of MGM Studios. He owns one of them big hotels down in Las Vegas. The guy said, conservatively, because legal team, he was making a million dollars a day. He could pay the 330,000 a month, but when he found out the four-year-old child wasn't his, he was just as ticked off about being used and abused and legally trapped as the guy who pays $200 a month. There's no justice in that. And then here, the impact. We pay men and boys, we have no services available to us. So that's why I was willing to participate in an academic study so that we could get the peer-reviewed impact on what happens to men and boys who discovered this horrific surprise. Emotional, mental, financial, they're shocked. She would never do that to me. This was, this is my high school sweetheart. This is my wife. Maybe he would be unreasonable to believe a one-night stay and claim he's dead. I'll concede that. But should the courts just take the mother's word? When we have proof of a large number of women over two decades have lied, and the legal atmosphere supports a presumption of guilty based on her word alone, she's not required to submit any evidence that the guy caused the pregnancy. So you walk in and the family court mistakenly believe even that family court is a court of law, and it is not. Family court is a court of equity. So based on what I learned about the US Supreme Court decisions and the appellate court decisions in my state, that told me what you have to do is you have to protect the rights of the men and boys via their substantive rights with statutory law. And what that means is in family court, a judge cannot go outside of the bounds of a statue that limits their discretion. They cannot exclude the DNA test then that's been properly submitted as legal evidence. And a host of other things, but we put a lot of stuff into the law to, shall we say, we don't need a judge to try to figure out whether or not the guy is the father. Okay, well, if you disagree with the first test, then you order a second test from a different lab, right? And if the preponderance of evidence shows this guy, A, did not cause that pregnancy, he is not the biological father. And see, he is not willing to pay her for a kid that's not his. And I'll dare say most times not even allowed to see. These men are shocked, stunned, paralyzed, and theirs followed with anger, anxiety, depression. I even had one client commit suicide right after he helped us get the law changed in Oregon. And I pleaded with the guy, do not isolate yourself. But what happens a lot when we men deal with tough issues? We tend to isolate ourselves and try to, you know, occupy ourselves with something else to do. And when you go through some words I consider to be somewhat traumatic. That is not the time to go off by yourself. You're in need of some help. Homelessness, drugs and alcohol, they use those as coping mechanisms. Well, I'm saying this is a need for services for men and boys. Jail, prison, credit ruin, job loss, business loss, no driver's license, and financial asset fees. What a deal. All based on a lie that's legally enforced. Are kids the only victims? Kids are the only victims that get sympathy. But believe it or not, the biological fathers are often victims of paternity fraud. A lot of times they didn't know they had a kid. But the only person who's facing going to jail or prison is that man or teenage boy whose name's on that court order, who have some of these men that I've identified over the past two decades, military men. Several of these military men have been confirmed as sterile. And I even met a U.S. Naval Intelligence Officer who found out he thought he had two children from his first marriage. Turns out none of them were his and that he was indeed sterile. Same thing for a Vietnam era veteran who had been in contact with Asian Orange. He had been affected from the Nam era war and all of his previous two marriages, none of the kids were his. Clergymen, executive scientists, professors, teachers, athletes, actors, musicians, politicians, law enforcement, corrections, fire rescue, border patrol. What I'm getting at here, whether you're blue collar, white collar, no collar, they can all be at risk. Doctors, attorneys, what that should say to you is the better you are financially successful, the more attractive you are or more attractive you can be for a trap using a bait, baby. What a deal. I don't think it's fair, I don't think it's right. I know of a professional where they collegiate athlete who had a full ride scholarship at school. He said the child support agency irritated him so much, telling him he needed to get a job, he needed to get money. But when you are a college athlete, you kind of limited on your choices and abilities to do things for income until there have been some like recent changes at the collegiate level. But what the young man did was he dropped out of college to go get a job and someone recommended to him to get a paternity test. And what did he discover? The child he had gone through all that mental, anguish and harassment from the state agents for was not his. What do you think happened to his scholarship? Once he dropped out, that scholarship went up in smoke. He can't get back in because without the benefit of his scholarship, he can't afford to get back into the university. And because he willingly waved his scholarship, he can't get back into the college. Here's the challenge. Can we get 100% of the most be truthful? I am not that optimistic. I say no. Can we hope men and boys discover the truth within 30 days without some massive public awareness that happens on a consistent basis? And I don't think so. My recommendation is that we have a PNA which is a paternity notification affidavit. Mother is required to fill out this affidavit before the court and notify each of the parties she was intimately involved with during the window of conception for that child, she has to notify the court of all of them and then you test them all till you find out which guy actually fertilized that egg. A judge said, you are weaponizing DNA testing against women. I was like, what? Hey, I thought best interests of the child should be based on the truth. I thought information on the birth certificate should be based on the truth. And every time I've talked to men for the past two plus decades, they said all I wanted was the truth. Do DNA testing at birth or at first child support hearing. Eliminate these hidden time limits depending on where you are in the process. You could have as little as 60 days if you're a single guy and you sign that paternity admission. If you don't discover the facts, after 61 days, it now requires a signed judicial order to get you out of the trap. And my experience across the nation, it varies, you may have all the evidence and the mother's sworn statement as she lied and they still won't let you out of the trap. And restitution, I think if you've been taken for over $320,000 like me, I should have got a shot to get my money back. I know what would have happened had I been in arrears for $330,000. You can't file bankruptcy and get out of that. So if you owe, it's like taxes. You gonna pay that till you're dead. And after that, they may go after your estate. Reactive law, we should free 100% of the victims. Hey, either he caused the pregnancy or he didn't. That is not real hard as a logical leap. Proactive law, DNA testing at birth. Let's stop the marital presumption. In these days, married women are cheating on the scale and magnitude of single women. In fact, the married women are hanging out with the single women and I dare say that might be why some of them ended up in divorce court. Stop the sign confession. We shouldn't be asking a guy to admit to something with a 18 to 21 year obligation without giving him all of the facts, giving him opportunity to get legal consultation on it and then he can make a fully informed decision. Cornel Smith says he shouldn't sign nothing till he get a DNA test in his hand that says 99.99% or better that you did it. If it says zero and you haven't signed anything, consider yourself having avoided a trap. And let's stop the states from making money off of it. With the Title IVD section where states are making money based on incentive payments to the states, this is the Title IVD section 458. The states really only have to meet a couple of metrics. They have to do better on getting the number of paternities established this year over what they did last year. It doesn't say they have to correctly identify fathers. The metric just says improvement year over year. Now, there's money allocated for DNA testing but since there are alternate ways that you can get him legally responsible without him getting the test, guess what? There's not much of a push to educate men and boys about why that test is in their best interest. You wanna connect with me? I think we should get the other states laws changed. And if so, if you are a person that is so minded to be an advocate, would like to participate in the strategy of getting the laws changed in the other states, you can connect with me at ThePaternityCoach.com. It gets you to all of my social media. Thank you. Any questions? Any questions? First off, I wanna say thank you for everything you've done for fathers. I'm an aspiring father and I hope to actually be a real one, right? Not get trapped, unfortunately, as so many other men have. What advice would you give to a man like me to kind of keep away from some common red flags that might indicate, hey, you're about to get, you're about to get screwed over? Okay, all right, great question. What advice would I give to an aspiring father? Well, first, I would say you gotta be willing to spend some years vetting the young lady that you are considering to be your wife. My position is take every active step to make sure you do not become a father without, what a woman who's not in your last name who is committed to your mission with you together. And in vetting her, you gotta watch, you gotta observe her over multiple scenarios cause some people will be wearing a mask for a long time. I didn't have any children with my wife for eight years. I had a two year engagement with her. I've been married 31 years, okay? So I support marriage, but with the current day climate is extremely financially risky cause you make a bad decision with someone who's wearing a mask and you don't know who she really is, she could cost you big time. She could cost you so much so that you may literally have to start over again. That'd be my advice. Yeah, really appreciate what you did for men in this country. It's really inspiring. I do have a question about foreign women and I know it's a bit of a side topic but do you have any suggestions when it comes to meeting women abroad and perhaps importing them to this country? Like, anything to watch out for? All right, all right. I understand you're right. You're talking about what a lot of the fellows have seen as get your passport and find you a traditional woman who embraces a traditional role in other countries. And I say, if that works for you, God bless you, go for it but I wouldn't be quick to do it just on emotion. I would vet them too. And if you have some people that you could, it might be worth doing investigative work on or background checks, all of that stuff. Cause like I said here, people can wear a mask for a period of time to achieve an agenda, right? But I do know of a lot of men who've said in countries that are patriarchal in nature and they embrace the traditional family led by the father and they reject the feminist agenda. Men are having some great success there and men are enjoying that but they also have to be watchful that once you bring her here, you gotta be mindful of the vultures who will try to become friends with her. So if you have an extended family and you have honorable wives in the family, I say get her connected with the family circle because the common theme in messaging about families, well, better yet, God first, family second and then supporting the unit working together not one being, there is no queen. She can't be a queen without a king and as you all know, hey, a king can elevate a woman who has no status. That doesn't happen when it's in reverse, all right? Thank you. Awesome, let's take them again. All right.