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You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. It was always a nice, always seemed when watching the movies and stuff that life was amazing and then you start to interview these people and you start to actually feel sorry for them because it is a life, it is a real life, a pain and you know this prime example you were in the middle of it but first and foremost how are you? I am good and you know the problem with the light and by the way I love you guys accents, you know the way you guys talk so it is so different from us but you know I go over to the UK a lot so I travel around that area a lot but you know what the problem is is easy to get away from the life but it is hard to get away from the dumb fucking people in the life you know so you know where they constantly trying to challenge you and you are trying to have a different life because you know the end up the end up is if you resort to what you used to do your life is going to be finished. You look great anyway, you are looking well. Thank you. Before we get into it I would like to go back to the start, John get a bit understanding about you, where you grew up and how it all began. Yeah. You know I grew up as a young kid around gambling joints my father was a partner is what a guy called Blackie Luciano Charlie looking Luciano's first cousin also a maid guy and the Gambino family my father grew up with him and my uncle ran a three-card game of Monty in the Bronx so I was around these guys since I'm a baby and as you're getting older you're looking up to them you're seeing them dressed nice making money you hear stories while you're sitting around as a young kid you know tough guys stories and you know you start getting drawn to it. Was that an attraction for you straight away but it became the known? Yeah it was an attraction because my father was in a money guy he was just a boxer he was in the ring he was in the Navy fighting so he liked that tough guy stuff but he wasn't a gangster himself just friends with him all and in business with him he owned a couple bars as a kid up and down with money because he was a gambler and you know so I was always had street guys around us. What was it like being an Albanian kid in America was there any sort of teasing or bullying because you were different? Yeah you know the problem is in you know growing up there wasn't that many Albanians. Albanian was shut down he was a communist country so we were always a country that was poor and suppressed that my family was poor and you know when you come and you're an Albanian in this country in the Italian world you get a lot of these guys if you know you're in this business that they talk nonsense because if you talk about the Kray brothers they're not Italian. Brian is a friend of mine a tax man he's not Italian so you know guys from the UK they're tough guys real tough guys and then you got these dummies yes or they ain't Italian was I got to do with being a gangster you know they just talk out of school because they're not street guys or they wouldn't talk like that. How well you at school John? Did you go to school? Yeah I went to school but I was a baseball player I had a full ride scholarship at baseball I was a captain of my high school team but I didn't really bother with the studies you know I should have but I didn't. Is that how you ended up good with a bat later on in life? Yeah. I started with the bat. Then finished with it? Yeah. So what did you do in school? Did you see your father being active and around all these kind of high profile men? Yeah my father brought me around a lot of big time gangsters because he was in a track also he was a gambler so he would be at the horse track and that's where all the gangsters were especially back then as a little kid he'd bring me to introduce me all kinds of guys he's always bringing me to card games and things like that so he started getting me to hustle with him in card games you know and the attraction was there he didn't mean it but that's what he did. Yeah that's all he knew. Yeah. So he wouldn't mind if you were hustling and doing your stuff would he be happy if you turned out to be like him? Yeah he wanted me to be that way but he didn't want me in the drug business and I ended up going in the drug business he thought I could scale like he did you know just go on the street be rough with your hands go to the gyms box gamble book make Shylock money but that's it he didn't want me going out becoming a a shooter and you know using bats and stabbing guys and you know I went into a different direction than he did. Because your friends were shooting at twelve and thirteen is that correct? Yeah I was I was very like I was more of a shy guy and I wasn't violent as a kid all my friends were yeah they were getting locked up they were all in juvenile jails and I wasn't. When did that violence start appearing to you? I think at around fourteen I started changing a little bit and then by a little after that I was in I used to work at Jamaica Avenue at a deli that was all gangsters and mobs that's hanging around there and gang street gang friend of mine they were all in a gang called seven and nine and guys were getting hurt on a regular basis they were coming through the neighborhood they were getting stabbed up or killed and then I started looking at changing my life in that direction with them because I seen the money and I seen the guys moving around and just you're hanging around those type of guys you start becoming those type of guys. Was it like doing your first bit of violence? Were you scared? Yeah you know the first time you getting you know I was collecting money and then for a bookmaker was with another family and I was very close to him he was across the street from us and his niece was my girlfriend his brother was also a made guy and they asked me to collect money from and eventually he asked me to hurt a guy and my adrenaline was running and the guy answered the door and I was nervous I wanted to do it I didn't want to do it I wanted to show I can do it and your heart's beating like crazy and the thing as soon as you opened the door I just started swinging and also because of my own fear of I didn't want to chicken out I wanted to be so if I knew if I started talking at all I wouldn't do it and as soon as you opened the door I just hit him with that bat. It's for human beings it's not a normal thing to do it's harm other people in my own opinion it's the fear of being embarrassed being calling a chicken being calling a shite bag where it makes you want to do it because you care too much about what other people think did you see that? Yeah I mean listen it's funny you said it because one of the biggest things as were kids because since we were kids my father always had us in the ring boxing downstairs it wasn't the fear of getting beaten up it was the fear of losing you didn't care about fighting but you didn't want to lose you don't want to be embarrassed you don't want to say no you got your ass kicked by so-and-so I remember you know I'm good with names so he was a kid he was kind of friend of mine Ronald Mankey and we were playing dodgeball we hit a guy and I hit him in the face with the ball he wasn't playing he was looking and then he said something I went after him and as soon as I stepped up to him I didn't expect him he punched me in the face and after he punched me in the face he was a tall skin thin kid strong he started to run but the next day in school everybody said Ronald and John give him a black eye and my eye was puffed up and I was more jealous more angry and mad that he did that and I wanted to get even with him now I want to fight him every day actually it was kind of a friend of mine the pride gets dented it's crazy that it's men how much destruction it's caused all around the world just by pride just because how you feel internally it's fucking crazy so Steven you started when did you start making a reputation for yourself what age as a young kid they would all say it was fearless I got to another fight with a really big guy and I was boxing him and he was beating me I'm young and the guy's name was Alfred and I got this bright idea to wrestle him and throw him on the floor when I was boxing and he landed on top of me and he starts giving me a beating and my friends most of my friends were there they were trying to break it up and you know he's crying the guy was a nice guy he was just a big guy and he's crying and he's pummeled me and you know I'm bleeding and he's you know bloody in my lip my nose and he's crying please stop he's asking me to please stop and I'm like nah I'm gonna get up but I couldn't get up he was just too big and he's got his legs on my arms and you know at that time I didn't know how to fight especially with wrestling you know I don't use my hands only not wrestling I didn't grapple yet later on I learned to grapple but you know that gives me you know it sort of gives me a reputation that this kid's nuts, this kid's wild this kid's you know he's fearless and even though I'm getting a beating I kind of got at the better of him because he doesn't want to hurt me How many was on your crew? A ton of guys probably in total about 100 guys after my main guys and my main guys all got crews with them so when did you become friends with Gotti Junior? I met him when he was about 16 I guess something like that 15 or 16 he was I was a year old he was in military school Is that when your life then went right into the mix of it? You know sort of around that time I was already getting violent was already in drug business but not in a big way and then in the next year or two yeah I start really getting violent Is that a regret in your life? Yeah of course I regret it you know the problem is you can't take it back and the problem is all these big mouths you want to go back and it's your ego and you want to slaughter someone talk like that but you know at the same time you want to go in a different direction so it's pretty frustrating but you deal with it See if you're making a name for yourself in New York and feel this does the other families then get wind of it and want you to join like the Earth crew or how does it work? Yeah I mean you know I started off really with a lot of guys from Jersey because that's where my father was he grew up in the Lower East Side but his partner Blackie was from North Jersey they called the Lodi area and then the Lucchese family and the guys I really started staying with as a kid when I was collecting and book making because that was my little girl my father but then later on after that I started running around with the Gambino family because my baseball coach is Albert Ruziano who's father is the neighborhood boss at that time How big were the Gambino family back then in the 80s? Yeah yeah The Audio Big the Gambino family was you know it depends on the years it changes but at one time it was the Lucchese family the major family in New York the violence during the wars with the Colombo family the Gambino family later on gets strong so it's an up and down between all but it's not like people think most of these families we all work together you know until there's an issue if somebody kills somebody without getting permission and then the hitting starts or the money grabs guys get greedy and they get killed and then some of the shooting starts How many people are in each family John? Is it very? Yeah it varies you got on an average about 200 made guys in each family you know a little more a little less and then you got the associates that are around all these guys depending how big some guys' crews are So you are known as a hit man but there's not a lot of trigger men See I always thought everybody had a gun everybody was a trigger man everybody was ready to kill so did I you're not saying something that as a kid I think everybody's doing what I'm doing you know that's the misconception of the mob everybody thinks there's a bunch of guys doing this but I run through names all the time and people ask me different I like Pete Gotti but he never shot a gun another guy Jack you know these guys become bosses they never shot a gun they never did no arm robberies they didn't do anything you know so everybody fits a position depending on what you need and most of the guys are like sheep so the guys that are violent everybody steps aside I used because of the UK and you're on that from that end from Scotland and different things you can name these street guys like the Kray brothers have a big reputation or Malvin Herbert right a black guy he's a good friend of mine he talks to me a lot Patrick Jenkins from you know from over there was in prisons with me guys Justin the guys were in prison with me in Brazil so you know these some of these guys got reputations another guy he was originally not from the country he was from Africa and he was in prison with me in Brazil and all these guys got a reputation of being dangerous when they want some of them a little more than the others are very dangerous guys so when people are talking at a school they just really don't get that there's only a certain nobody's gonna really tell them what to do and if they do you're gonna have to kill them to stop them I think America though it's more organized with the mafia it's it used to be all underground but everybody now is out talking and telling and it's crazy but with the UK it's not as organized there's organized crime of course but it's not as ruthless as it was here is with the five families everything organized thousands of men ready to go maybe run the streets run the drug trade but it's not as organized I think the UK is a free-for-all it's kind of embarrassing I think in the UK yeah well you know the problem is like I said if you have a good five to ten guys that are shooters guys that are the violent guys with a half a brain not just a shooter you could take over this stuff because they don't have these kind of shooters like everybody thinks you know they just don't it doesn't exist there's a very small percentage of guys that go out and really do this kind of work the rest of them are just moving around hustling making money white collar crimes little schemes here and there dealing drugs but then I gangsters out there shooting you could go through a list if you did a little research and see you know a guy shoots one guy maybe another guy shoots one or two guys but they're not out there really putting work you know day and night see the five families if you've got someone outside of the five families has a team of five ten they're making a bit of money they're dangerous and they didn't go and work for another family does their life become in danger I mean listen if you got five or ten guys that are very capable you'll get guys off shooter guys like we had the Irish gang the Westies so they can't track the families we can't track work to them and they'd be doing killing for the family the code is sponsored by fire away pizza the fastest grown pizza company in the UK with over one hundred and fifty stores with their fresh quality ingredients and unique pizzas they will have you coming back for more use code James twenty for twenty percent off that's James twenty for twenty percent off when they get a little out of hand if you can lure them in the problem is guys they all betray each other especially for money and they manipulate guys with betrayal they don't have it's not what everybody thinks that these guys so loyal to each other and I will use myself as a prime example because when I went to prison in Brazil I'm sitting in a penitentiary I went on the run everybody's the way you guys use the word grass everybody's grassing on me I'm sitting in a penitentiary and the whole organization's giving me up so it's not what people think a guy like me never got caught so what am I doing in front of the justice system unless everybody's grassing on me because I never got caught how much was it for a contract killing a nays these days they're not really killing anymore that's over I don't even think they had two killings in the last five years but probably to that depending on who you're going to hit if they're going to if somebody's offering you money to hit them or if somebody's in our world like when God he was the boss the father he'll tell you go do a piece of work and if you're going to go do that piece of work it's not where he says I'll give you a hundred thousand but what they do is put you into action you know like they put me in a book making business it started giving me big players so you make it big money maybe they'll give you another guy who has a Shylock book and like here with Sammy Gravano ratted he had a half a million dollars on the street and a big Louis took his book Sammy didn't do anything he's hiding somewhere so you know there's your reward you get you take over somebody's book with a half a million on it so you're making all kinds of money it's Shylock money excuse me we're not his book it's Shylock so that's the things you get offered things but moving on around and you're getting different on your office especially when you're you're you're violent whether it was guys like Roy DeMayo I just did a show on him on my podcast these guys are making money like crazy before in the car business so you know basically they're running that that that industry who was your boss before before Gotti I had different people Fat Andy before that Louis Gatti was one of the guys that I asked another guy before Louis his brother so depending on the years and what year when you're growing up and when you're coming around who you're answering to so Gotti became boss was it was it Castello? yeah yeah yeah it was Castello was a boss Castellano was a boss of the Gambino family and was it Gotti that killed him to kill him yeah so Castellano did he not have a big family why was there no retaliation a lot of reasons Gotti was smart what he did was he started taking aligning himself with the younger generation of gangsters the older guys that Castellano around were a little older he had his driver Tommy Bellotti who was a younger guy but Tommy didn't have that many guys anymore and Tommy was the next guy that's supposed to go into position so not only is Gotti smart enough to kill Castellano he knows he's got to kill Bellotti because Bellotti will be the next guy in line for the boss position so he understood that and he took the younger guys like Frankie DeChico who had a big following in Brooklyn he took Frankie Lucasio in the Bronx who had a big following so he took the younger guys that the older guys couldn't challenge him and you know at the time when he set it up he had a big crew himself you know he had his brother he had his the canig Johnny Canig he had different guys Tony Roach you know Willie Boy Johnson before he they found that he was in a form and he gets killed but he had shoot at Sangelo Rogirio so that was Gotti's boss was Castellano at the time so there was a friendship by those two no no he didn't like him at all he didn't respect Castellano was a business man that made billions of dollars for himself and for the family billions actually not millions and you know Gotti had an outlook of him as a business man but that's not completely accurate either actually under Castellano's rule he hit more guys than on the John's rules so Castellano did have a lot of guys he hit and he had one of the most dangerous crews around he had the Roy D'Ameio and Nino Gadji and the Testa brothers and Sentha so you know Anthony Sentha so these guys were the biggest hitters probably in a mob in the last 100 years prior to the other generation of Albert Anastasia murder rank I don't think there's anybody that killed more than these guys so if you're a boss and you've got someone like John Gotti who's moving through the ranks making money, building an army how does a boss handle that surely they've got wind of he's becoming dangerous he's potentially becoming a target because made men are not supposed to get killed the bosses are not supposed to get killed did he feel that that would never have happened to any of them or was there always suspicion that all the bosses get killed over the years Gotti gets killed the rules are there only to break I talk about this all the time they got rules but nobody stands by him and you know Paul knew he was in trouble with John he knew he was getting a reputation he knew that John wanted the position but Paul had two cases going at the time the mission case that was a big case that everybody went to prison about and then all the bosses and he also had a case with Roy DeMail and here's Paul's problem he ends up killing Roy DeMail that's his hit squad so it weakens him tremendously within the family but he also wanted to hit him because he had too many bodies and he had a case Roy so at the time when John decides to hit Paul Paul's hands were tight because he had two major cases going he was probably going to jail for life he was fighting he didn't need anymore to ride around them if he would have killed John or somebody then that would have been another case a little more pressure on Paul at that time John used that as a fact to say let's kill Paul because he's going to kill us John was smart and he maneuvered the rest of these guys and they wanted to take the leadership role and take over the family so John was smart he manipulated and he killed Paul and there was a little obvious trouble not within our family but the other families for not getting permission or commission to kill Paul so that's when they start clipping the hitting guys in our family one at a time so when God it becomes boss because the mafia were underground they should be secretive and everything's just kept in house but was it God who changed all that and glamorized being a gangster or was it already done beforehand you had different guys you had Al Capone that glamorized there was other guys that glamorized and I know you hear the media because John was the last one to bring it out in the public eye the way he did but there's been a lot of guys that brought out in the public eye there's guys that wrote books like Colombo you've got guys now doing podcasts all over the place I kind of started that here in the states and then you've got a lot of guys that follow now they're all doing podcasts but I'm not active the difference is I'm finished I'm retired these guys that are doing podcasts that are active or whatever their situation is guys don't like it they call guys rats but I have my own understanding of that and I already told guys every rule that I could go through with you they have broken every boss and every crime family in the United States for the most part is ratted not every single one but a good majority of them are ratted worldwide is in different things so this organization from Albert Anastasia and I talked about him he was a rat he murdered a rank he actually brought in his best friend one of his best friends for murder rank so when he brings in he gives him up he hands him right over to the FBI he's a rat Lucky Luciano at 16 got caught with the heroin business and he said I was just a kid at the time when he grasped it's not what people it's about survival in my opinion the only way it stays loyal is if you keep a small group of your childhood friends and even then guys break weak on you but they'll have loyalty and you get 5, 10 guys you can get away with it when you get mass numbers like this they all start rolling too hard to control it's too hard to control it's what happened with me you know again I'll say it what happened to me I'm in Brazil penitentiary I'm not talking I went on a run I left my family I spent millions of dollars and everybody's ratting on me they're all grassing so you know when guys talk about the loyalty I could show you each boss like I tell everybody guys like Joe Massina Warawaya and on the banana family you got Sammy Gravano and the Gambino family he's ratting you have guys in the little Casey family like Diaco that was one of the bosses he ratted then later on you had gas pipe one of the biggest killers around he ratted you know I go over to Philadelphia Ralph Natale Lee and Eddie they ratted you know so you know I could go on with this list Chicago you had the Chicago in Pittsburgh you had Chucky Porter he ratted another boss in Boston you had the Irish mob you had Whitey Bulger he ratted it's not what people think that you know that they're only these guys are all moving around and then how many informants are within all these organizations and his jealousy and it's about money also and it's about fear if they think I'm going to kill them of course they're going to start dropping dimes and talking to the police and tell them this guy's killing guys and shooting guys this is the real world that I'm not the bullshit everybody watches movies all these typewriter guys that are gangster and on a typewriter you know pushing buttons they'll talk about whoever whether it was the Kray brothers whether it's me whether it's any other guy but if you sat them in this hotel room they're going to sit there with their hands folded and they're going to be quiet because they realize okay if I open my mouth I'm going to go out that window so it's even got it became boss and your friends with his son the due sense the due fuel another bit of power coming your way because you had then more room to play with or was it just the same nah you know my mistake was I should have never got involved with them I grow up around it I got involved with them I had my own crew I made my own money I did my own shooting I didn't work I didn't need nobody it was a big mistake I was just young and like those guys I was impressed and exactly what you said earlier I thought everybody was doing a shooting I didn't know you're young people don't go out in odd day there was guys getting killed left and right you know I'm getting shot up I'm getting stabbed up all my friends same thing most of us got shot stabbed everybody's getting killed so we don't know unless they're your immediate friends you don't know who's pulling the trigger so if you carry yourself well you're not sure if this guy's a killer or not in these days nobody's killing so you know none of them are killers you know it's not like in odd day where everybody's dropping bodies every day I mean every day there was a murder yeah what was it like shooting someone for the first time John you know again it's an adrenaline rush you want to do it because you believe in that life and if you think somebody crossed you and you know somebody shootings they do it guys are trying to kill me guys are talking about killing me worse than trying to kill me is talking about it and you get a lot of guys that just talk bullshit because they're impressing somebody and once you hear about it you're going to go shoot them if somebody's fucking with our money or our drug business you're going to go shoot them there is no warnings there's no talking you do a lot of talking now because you're not killing nobody but when you're in that life you're not talking what was it like killing someone for the first time really nothing I mean it's adrenaline to shoot them but you know you really don't care I've talked about this you know when I was in court the prosecutors asking me questions about what I ate and this is how detached you are like I was or most of us I guess is I'm like thinking to myself what the fuck does he care what I ate you know I'm actually left I'm saying once this guy nuts but he's trying to show that right after I killed somebody I remember what I ate where I went to eat at bringing guys I'm laughing I'm joking so he's trying to show these guys are just fucking nuts we just aren't in reality of real life like we take a life and no big deal we go eat a chocolate pie after that have a soda have a burger and obviously it didn't affect us you're not like in a corner somewhere throwing up I'm laughing because it is fucking nuts but do you then look at it and think how psychotic he's all where it's like a fucking mental institute it's like everybody's because they're so ingrained in that life like you say you're putting a bullet in someone's head and then go and eat in a chocolate pie yeah yeah you know my friends are at a pool hall on 111 street in Atlantic and Liberty Avenue it's in Ozone Park where we grew up and I get a call from Frankie Burke he's Jimmy Burke's son the one from Goodfellas a real good friend of mine and he says to me are you I'm in my callback because we didn't have phones I had the phone in a callback we just put the phones in there anybody that was making money in drug business we had phones so I go he goes I'm not around but Joey Danka and Angel Castelli they got a problem in that pool hall shoot that so I call them I'm calling the bar now I'm trying to get them I don't get them on the phone anyway I end up putting a pool stick over the guy's head in the middle of whatever's going on between them and the guy's big guy same thing he comes after me and he lands on top of me and we're rolling around and Angel will start shooting them so I'm screaming Angel are you going to shoot me too you know because you're shooting we're all tangled up now we're wrestling we're tangled up and he's blasting away at the guy and I think he had a big gun maybe a 350-70 he had something big he had a cannon on and then the other guy's fighting Joey Danka who's one of the brother-in-laws of Vinny Gotti and then Angel shoots him he's trying to run out on the guy shoots him in the back now we take off we go to a diner again to eat I walk in a diner in Brooklyn in Canarsie this happened in Queens we go to Canarsie Brooklyn and the waitress knows me and she says John I said what she goes the whole back is full of blood so I was soaked with blood my back so now I'm like this guy shoot me somewhere you know without because you're adrenaline so we go in a bathroom and they bring me one of the bus boys clothes I put it on and I'm like how the fuck is do I got blood all over me like that because it's behind me it's not in front so I don't know how that blood got all over me because and then I said to Angel will you fuck him on you could have killed me man what's wrong with you meanwhile he's snorting coke he's drinking eating only you know and everybody so you know most likely both these guys died you know I don't know if they did or didn't but most likely you get hit with a cannon and you know but this is every day for us we're going to eat then you know it's just one shooting after another we're all and we're tight with each other we're all moving drugs within each other you know we're all hang out the same place PMPub and ozone park and guys are getting massacred there if you're from outside the neighborhood you're stupid enough to come there there's got to be something wrong with you if you know we're all there because there's too many killers at that time staying at the same bar. Is your dad still alive at that time? Yeah my dad's still alive he's in a nursing home I go see him I full around him and I put some tapes of me full around with my hands with him because he's not all there but he still moves and you know he's in a wheelchair and he'll move around and I'll full around I'll slap him he'll try to kick me it's funny so I just I try to keep him alive like playboy. What was he saying when he realized you became a killer? Did he know? Listen even as I got old my father always hit me you know he would hit you be great be little you know he just he tried everything I mean you know my father's behalf because there's a book that I did the darkest hour when I was growing up and people see my father's being like an animal and I'm like it's not true my father loved me he just didn't want me to get bullied on the street he grew up in low east side with Vito Genovese and guys like that so he just wanted you to be tough to handle yourself he didn't know he was going to develop me into a monster because basically that's what he developed me into without realizing you know he didn't want me doing this shit he didn't want me selling drugs he was the first time he found out he was steam and he was mad at me disappointed we'd argue he'd throw me out he sent me to California to go by one of my uncle's house I got locked up there three or four times they brought me back they kicked me out of the state and he tried and he did what he thought was best for me as a father you know I don't blame him for nothing it was me I was nuts it was my friends because you sold drugs as well that's been known I thought that was like not allowed in the mafia another bullshit another bullshit bro everybody's selling drugs too much too much money those movies ought to get fucking banned then because they're all fucking fake that's what he said I can give you all the rules that are above everything's bullshit that you know these you only you only can press dumb kids with it and you know when we're young we're dumb as we get older we understand life you know this like you know like I said there is no nationality that makes you a gangster the gangster in whoever's a gangster whether you know and I talk about a lot of black guys because I got a lot of black friends they're tough tough street kids but they're killing like crazy in every neighborhood you know still so when guys talk to me about that I said man stop telling me about this bullshit that you know the mob is organized in a different way but as far as if you got like I said three or four or five guys that are legitimately killers with you there ain't nobody saying nothing all that made guy in titles don't mean nothing when you get when you got guys that do this and then everybody shuts the fuck up because they know they'll run through you you know you'll come in you'll run through guys I mean in this day and age there's cameras everywhere so everybody talks bullshit because you know there's cameras they know you can't do anything there's no cameras trust me if we shut down the cameras everywhere you'll see all those gangsters on those computers stop typing because then they know they're open game it's like going hunting again you can take whoever you want because all the damage you're done will get away with stuff back then because there was no CCTV yeah there was no CCTV you can do what you want if you had balls you can do what you want you got a big drug dealer you go see him you want him you do business with me and the guy doesn't listen a lot of guys are stupid you know they got egos they talk shit they're gonna do this but they're not really about that and then when you got a real serious guys a group of guys we had serious guys really he's dead he was a serious guy Frankie Burke Jimmy Burke's on he's dead he was a serious guy Tito he got killed by Frankie but he stayed with us he's dead Joey Danka we all put where all of us were put in work so there's not one guy Greg Ryder he's dead Dennis Pittman Kevin Pittman Ed dead I go through this all the time when I'm talking about different people Scott Schumann wild guy he got killed shot him 35 times that's all whole crew guys we stayed some of the guys were a little closer than other guys we were born again everybody's dead there's nobody that's alive you know so all of us we just and everybody was shooters it wasn't just like I was a shooter they were all shooters all these guys so you know if we had a problem I call me Angel take a ride with me you know he's in he's game he's gonna come you call Joey Danka Joe take a ride me no problem brother you come in you know we picture each other up and all of us at the one work we're all you know we found out somebody had a half a million dollars in a house somewhere we're going we're gonna go take it and we don't wear masks never none of us we used to go face up if you come back look up for us you know what we're gonna do to you I'm surprised that it's not because there's so many coppers on the pay as well yeah we had a lot of cops I had the guy Phil Barone the detective he killed with me he was my drug partner he was my bookmaker partner he had other cops that worked on to him so you know I'm bringing a load of drugs he's in the car with me I got pulled over to one time for sure that we got pulled over bad another time he seen them pull me over he pulled up he just happened to be there and so you know he handled that part of any like just local police or somebody pulling you over for some dumb shit he flashed his badge and that was that so you know we had that you know so you have a lot of that too you have guys moving drugs for me that were cops I had different drug spots in Brooklyn and you know in the area it was a different era it was complete different era see when you're killing people join starving people beating people up see the screams they're ever playing your mind no nightmares I mean I don't sleep good so subconsciously you know people say I you know because once in a while I just got mad a guy put the tape up this not do kid I abused the shit out of them and the only reason they talk like this is they know you're not gonna do nothing anymore they're challenging who you are talking bullshit about you put a tape up like that if you ever did that years ago I'd go send that chop his head off I was you know but it's a different era so you gotta lose the ego but yeah that stuff bothers you but yet it like I always say it's your DNA nothing's gonna change in you know this is who you are you just learn to control it you learn to control your ego you learn to you want a different life you know because when you do what you used to do with suicide I might as well kill myself what was your daily routine like back then what was your daily routine what was it like we'd be out every night drinking champagne a bunch of us and differently back then we always dressed suit and ties and there would be a gang of us this guy Richie would be what is Joey blue eyes there was a ton of us and we'd be you know we'd be out every night champagne in it all different girls with us we'd fly all over the place you know back then you could fly at any hour we go to the islands we go to Florida we go to California we'd be in a Bahamas and then during the day we'd get up on a regular and do our drug business go and collect go our guys call us if they had a problem at a bar with another guy if another guy started selling drugs at that body giving a name I'd send a couple guys to him the guy doesn't listen I'd go hurt him you know about him if it's a little more serious you shoot him it's just that's your money you just following your money around how much were you making back then big money I mean you know guys ask me all the time you gotta remember we're moving four keys basically in about a week or two in pieces in quarter grams have grams grams little eight balls and then we got weight that we're moving and I had so many guys I mean we're making you know a million it's hard to even put a number on it because I got guys like Guy Peaton Andrew Rizavuto I got Joey Dank Arani Warnum we all got guys Tommy Chrissiam named some of the guys of Fat Angelo these guys all around with me and I'm supplying them all and they all got guys so Frankie Scott Benito from Keith Croce and these guys all got guys under my guys this guy Joey Squiggs so say I give just small amount I give each guy two kilos this ten guys that's 20 kilos they're gonna break it up in pieces they're gonna move it around the neighborhood they got I don't know how many guys working for them then they got guys like Guy Peaton that comes to me and he's taking four to ten keys a month and we're flipping those it's very hard to say because it's too much money we're going out for every every ten grams you give these guys they supposed to bring you back 700 they get 300 for your work it's back in those days and you know if they give discounts and whatever and sometimes if we got some real good blow to go up to 120 a gram so I mean I'm just giving you some quick numbers how much percentage goes to the bosses and I said well you're hiding money it depends on what you get we had some spots we had the one spot flight 116 the guy there moose would give me and got a 800 a week just for the spot so we'd make 1600 on the corner plus we would supply him and then at the end of the week depending what he told me he moved you know he would give us a percentage of that but the problem is you know people say well how do you know he's not moving something else because we used to check we'd have guys buy I know our own product you know it be marked up products whatever we at that time I forget what some of the names would call it but you know and we'd package it in certain things if we found out somebody was moving something else that means they're not buying from us and they're making maybe they're moving a key without us and if you find out you get hurt, you get killed, you get shot up you get bad it so guys didn't do it actually moose was pretty loyal he didn't do it but then you had another guy Glenn Erskowitz that had nothing to do with me he used to just giving the guy that and you're talking about a different area he'd give him about 500 I think a week out of that spot these are the only couple spots we had 100 spots do you have a photographic memory I got a pretty good memory I remember these names from 30-40 years ago that's why when guys talk and question me I say their whole names I give names I give locations you know we had a dust spot with Tony DeMayo up in Forest Park we had another place by the dome with Johnny Lido there you know he was moving these guys were moving back in those days black beauties and dust and angel dust and coke so is that to verify everything you're saying yeah that's what I said to everybody you know some of the guys that ain't alive but I'm giving names I'm giving locations I'm not just saying all these guys over here so when guys talk all the time I'm always telling them the same thing you can talk but I'm very direct because I have a good memory I remember everybody's names I remember guys that can list names from prisons that were with me that know me good from whether it's Brazil or prison in 1991 my cellmate in 1991 his name is Alex Garrett he's the next fighter tough guy gangster black guy we were good friends I mean I just name names all day with so many people with so many egos involved in a mafia so much pride so everybody wanted to be a top dog for someone from Albania someone who was dangerous a hit man making money how far could you have went you know people could say what they want I took over the streets if I was that bullshit guy you know because if you watch a lot of these shows or you watch them type they blast away at me and I laugh I say I'm Donald Trump or the mob I just talk because I let it roll off my shoulders I know what they are because if they're real men and they're killed they're going to be right in that nonsense I say they're right like idiots but I wouldn't be sitting here if I wasn't what I was especially making the money especially for every country I lived in I lived in Columbia I lived in Cuba I lived in Africa I lived in Brazil I lived in Brazil penitentiaries for almost 3 years you're not going to stand here and sit here if you're full of shit eventually your car gets pulled by someone and they kill you you know and in our life we all get stabbed up jumped at it it's part of the life but as an Albanian and you don't want people to say that there's only one thing that rules the streets it's the violence and the money and you're violent and you're smart and you have a crew you're going to do whatever you want to do really you know people tell you that you're bullshit and I'm always talking about Irish guys and serious tough guys it doesn't matter if they're tough they're tough and if somebody can't put you on their lap that means they got to try to hit you a different way they got to do a drive by they got to try to catch you somewhere and if they miss they know you're going to come after them and they know what you're going to do if they come after them there's a factor of it's like Roy De Mayo nobody wanted to kill him the whole two dangerous I did a show on him the other day I wrote a list of names I read a list of names the guy killed killed about 30, 35 names I read of so that's just what we know who knows how many he killed besides that with his crew and the way they killed him was his crew killed him so see because of so many killers as well was there people who were frightened of other killers even though they were killers you're not afraid it's people ask me how to tell me are you worried about it well I wouldn't be worried about it you see how I come here I'm in New York by myself it's just part of it if it happens it happens I mean I've been stabbed up a couple of times I've been jumped and you know people talk shit you're not invincible they can get you so it's part of it but it's like a boxer you get a fighter he goes in the ring you don't give a fuck who he's fighting he fights you're going to win lose doesn't matter you're going to fight and in this mentality it's the same thing you know what you're going to you're going to do business you're going to try to align yourself it's like yourself if you were on the street I would try to be a friend and do business with you but if it doesn't work like that and I feel you challenge it me instead of working with me and then I'm not going to say nothing to you we're just going to let it go we're going to act like we're friends with each other and then maybe I'll tell two guys let's take this guy out next week if we feel you stepping on our toes but it's better to get along and make money together so you do try to make alliances don't get me wrong I had alliances with every crew around whether they were gang street gangs whether they were bloods whether they were a black gang the black hawks there were a motorcycle gang excuse me Tomahawks well whoever it is you're trying to you're trying to have alliances to make money you know one of my friends at the time president here in New York his sister was my girlfriend as a kid you know obviously I was very close with him he died since but you know so you had alliances with guys and you make money with him and if there's a problem you can't handle then he would send somebody through his guys and that's the good thing about alliances across every country not just here when I went to Colombia, when I was in Brazil Commander Vimella was the big outfit there and I was in prisons with these guys and some of the bosses were my friends and we got involved in things together so yeah I mean this is part of how you survive and you make deals and when you're talking about you know you go to East New York back then in Brooklyn I had a lot of black friends so I'd go into another guy goes in there that's not going to work out so well for him you know because I used to pull up leave my car running and Brownsville and you know somebody was saying I still go to Brownsville, I have a lot of guys and I do talks there now for kids so you know but they all know me from school, from hanging out in the neighborhood from Jamaica Avenue it just depends on who you how smart you are and how loyal you are to the people you make your money with What sort of levels of violence is there John? So if someone was chatting up a gangster's wife someone owed a thousand dollars ones okay just beat him up or is everybody just getting killed off and stabbed and whether they live or dies there's a different levels to it from what people owe or what they've done Yeah it's levels to it because it depends on what they've done like you know a guy does hurts one of my guys that are on the street that's moving drugs for me I can't allow that, I might not kill them but you know you're going to hurt them you're going to hit them with a bat and I'll tell them that he understands don't ever go near one of your guys again you know if a guy goes into one of my bars because you know I had a ton of bars I don't know 60, 70, 80, 100 bars we're moving drugs everywhere if you're going to come in there I think you're going to move packages in there and my guy tells my whoever he works for they let John know this guy is starting to move packages in here we'll go to him and I'll tell him you want to move you got to buy through us because if you don't buy for us after that warning if he doesn't buy from us and he's in there then we hurt him and this is how we control the drug business in our sections you've done a lot of violence yourself why but just going yourself I mean like you never had your crew you've done a lot of damage I mean I had guys that did work for me also but mostly I did it yeah someone's done right so I make sure I do what I want to do I sent two guys and actually three I told them to hurt this guy but don't kill him and I gave him the wrong bullets in the gun purposely the guy testified on this he was testifying against us and he tells the story and everybody's laughing because they're making fun of us saying look how stupid that they put the wrong bullets in but the witness for the government said I'm the guy that John gave the gun to and John told them these are wrong bullets he says but give it to them because he knows they're too stupid no matter what he tells them so they stabbed the guy which I didn't want either but they stabbed him they robbed him they tied him up and they tried to shoot him with the gun they kept clicking the gun and it wouldn't go up it was the wrong bullets when did you feel you're safest John in that life of crime you never safe in that life of crime never you know because a 16 year old kid can hit you and it's that guy that wants to make a name for himself that wants to fight you and I hear it till today guys challenge me every day they don't stop online is that talking because they want to make a name they think if they get to say something about you online that everybody says wow look at the way he talked to him you know so you know it's what it is you gotta laugh at it you know once in a while you do get mad people say well I thought you were working with kids you lose your temper here and there but you control it verbally is okay as long as you're not doing it physically how does it heighten the paranoia I'm not paranoid but I'll go to restaurants people say to me all the time I sit on my back to the door I go anywhere I want I mean there's a couple of times since I've been home guys try to jump innocent that's part of it you know if they catch you short you trunk or you whatever and you let you go down but then you know they know what's going to happen after that you know if if they were real guys trust me the guys real guys like in my day I'd be dead I wouldn't be sitting here because there wouldn't be no talking if you had guys like and I bring their names up a lot you know I bring up like to be there and these guys and far be guys that I'm real good friends with now they used to be my enemies when those guys were looking for you to kill you if they found you they ain't punching you they're not doing any of that dumb shit they're going to sit there they're going to take you they're going to kill you they're going to torture you they're going to hit you good they're going to shoot you 10 15 times stab you up they're real guys now you got a lot of fakers they won't want to fake their way get a reputation so you know they talk bullshit for a man who loved that life when did it start thinking in that you started asking questions what the fuck is it you're actually doing yeah because I started noticing that you know I'm getting smarter obviously as I get older and I see the life and I see these guys ain't doing no work they're full of shit you know I've been abusing Sammy for a while now I says in some idiots right you know he put the work in back then I don't know what part of they don't get that he only killed one guy he runs around all over TV he said 19 I'm good at murder and I'm good at this shit that's why he has people when they talk to him well tell him since you killed so much tell us who tell us the names tell me where you were when it happened they don't do it because they weren't about that they got you know I say he's the Kamala Harris to the Joe Biden and the vice president he's there for fucking namesake bullshit for because politically it's good for whatever reason but he ain't that guy he's not a Roy DeMeo you know so when these guys are talking that nonsense they're not really guys putting in the work there's guys that put in the work and I know who they are which guys are tough and there's a lot of don't get me wrong there's a lot of mob guys are tough guys but he ain't one of them and you know so when you when you go through some of this and you say I started realizing these guys ain't what they say they are and then when I see like when I was on the run and I was worth millions I mean I lost 35 million and I say 35 was more than that my nightclub alone was making 34 million a year my parking company was sold for 17 and a half million so you know my properties I got a piece of state that's 10 million somebody else got now but you know when I was sitting there the whole mob was giving me up I never got caught so I said then I started realizing like what the fuck am I doing what do I believe in I believe in bullshit every rules broken and everybody I protected now that I'm on the run nobody's doing the right thing for me and the rest of them all rat on me so you know when I see everybody grass and I'm like this organization is nonsense it's people that don't know any better that believe in this crap So how did you end up on the run John? I went on the run and I had police that worked for me that told me that they got two indictments down looking for me and I ended up being on the everybody was in the poll was looking for me I was on America's most wanted list and I went from country to country I had a lot of connections one of my connections was my good friend one of the biggest drug dealers in Denmark the boss Klaus and we were in prison together in Brazil so he helped me gather some passports in Europe and I ended up in Cuba for a while in and out in Africa where I picked up passports in Senegal and then I ran to 20 different countries and hiding my country I was in Albania for a while but the poll was on me and I knew that my time was limited too many guys giving me up too many made guys, mafia guys and so I said there's no way I'm going to end up okay through this you can't kill everybody again you could every time somebody opens their mouths or somebody's rat or somebody's just talking stupid how many guys you're going to kill you just can't do it you kill one is another one you do that is another one you get older I had the wrong understanding of this life and it's too late now but I paid the price for it when did you get caught? I got caught in 2004 in Brazil they came with the army what were you thinking then? I was thinking I'm fucked I was sitting on a corner actually I was fixing a guy up with a girl that I knew Susan and he went on a phone and I was on Copacabana behind Copacabana Palace it's like a four lane loud tourist everywhere street that everybody's looking out the window at me there's a helicopter above and usually the helicopter is on the beach side it was on the building side which I knew right there and then everybody's looking out the window I see snipers I see the army military police coming after me and it's complete silence and that's how you know you're finished and they told me to put my hands up and get on the floor and I wouldn't do it and I wasn't trying to be a tough guy so I'll be the first one to say I guess some were self-consciously I just said fuck it let them kill me it's over so I wasn't put my hands up and then finally I was just lucky that the guy that was running that arrest was a nice guy because he said to me afterwards put your hands up and I just went you know I was disgusted I was like I don't know I guess I just wanted them to shoot me and you know you didn't think about it at the time it's just the way I reacted and I was just and the guy I was with wasn't a gangsta and he's going hey it ain't me they weren't 100% sure it was me and he kept saying it's me and I looked at him like hey shut the fuck up but you know it's and then that was it and they started getting shipped around to these penitentiaries and I was the first guy ever in their country brought into a penitentiary without a charge in their country so I wasn't charged with a crime there they were just holding me to bring me back I was supposed to be in one jail and they ended up sending me to one of the worst prisons around I don't think they could, how could they extradite you because you have such high profile name I fought the extradition for a while but you ain't beaten those once you know yourself what are you thinking then because what sort of charges were you up for I was up for everything they came my indictment came 30 years back so it was from 1980 to 2005 2004 excuse me and it was murders armed robberies drug deal and certain amount of kilos of life sacks and shootings I was accused of a couple dozen shootings and it was just done there was no way and once I was in penitentiary and word was out that all these guys were talking against me everybody that was going into court were blaming me so it was I knew it was over so what was that then if you're in that life of crime you've done all the damage you've done all the bad stuff you would have died for that life about that life to then reading statements that people then turned on you and pointing the finger when did you have that moment to go fuck this I'm doing the same back was that a hard decision or was it an easy decision no it was a hard decision I didn't do it for three years I was sitting in the pens in Brazil I wouldn't do it and you know in those pens are real pens not like a luxury even the worst gels here is not like that there everybody's got guns just killings left and right there's no lights you got a little bulb that goes out there's because your third world country the electric grid goes out you shit in the floor you got rats this big you got mosquitoes and you know when people ask me that all the guys from the UK we all stay together and still talk and you know so they did some interviews they talk about you know exactly how I was there and me stabbing guys inside prison and different things so the survival there is very difficult and this guys from around the world we're all in touch with each other by the way I want to say hello to Nereo because he just got in touch with me a couple of months ago from Italy and you got a lot of guys that were with us another guy Max Klaus was with us a guy chimmy out of Turkey Justin from the UK Lewis in the UK we call him O so we're all you know we all stayed in touch with each other all these years because we survived because of each other so you know when people talk about you know it's concentration camp but when I was sitting there I held out when I came home I was with a guy a black guy that I got very friendly with and he I came back in and he told me hey brother man you better get with the game and he was a disciple from Chicago and we used to play chess together and I couldn't beat him no matter what the guy was a good chess player and he said you better get with the program who you holding out for you know these guys are all giving you up fucking you know I watch the wise guy after wise guy come in here made guys and they're all just just blaming everything on you every crime there was a couple trials while I was in Brazil too and the captain made opening statements about me and saying that I'd kill him like everybody else that I'm a rogue loose cannon blah blah blah it woke me up and then I says I don't know any of these guys nothing that's fucking me so it's over for me I'm not staying loyal to nothing now they're not loyal to me I'm not loyal to them but I get a little kick out of the guys at talk whether it's gangsters or whether it's just regular individual you know trolls on the on the internet because they call everybody a rat he's a rat rat rat rat I got caught because everybody's ratting on me that's what I got I never got caught you know I never got caught at a scene I never got caught with guns I never got caught killing nobody I never got caught with drugs so there's nonsense they say they're right everybody's a rat they rat it on me I own a nobody and I never had any qualms with it after they all gave me up I said no they this life is fucked up and and also not just the guys that ratted on me when I asked the mob to go kill some of these guys that are ratting everybody would do it but it was okay when I was doing it for everybody so then I woke up I go listen I'm naive it's about self survival these guys do it's about money that's it it's not about they like you or they love you or they they're either afraid of you so they listen to you or you're making the money or when you're gone you're expendable new guy up and that's that that's it that's the life do you feel used yeah it's my own fault I don't blame nobody I'm used because I was stupid and I bought into the bullshit I drank the Kool-Aid you can't blame nobody but myself so see when you're in court you're back here you've read the indictments you've read everything against you what sort of deal was put in place you know they don't give you a deal you got assigned to life so it's not what anybody thinks you don't know what you're going to get you know so you're fighting for your life but the more that the problem that you did they're not supposed to use against you and in Florida that's where my indictment came they started to try to use it against me and I try to get a plea deal without talking to them at all and I try to get 22 years they wouldn't give it to me then I went up to 35 years and they wouldn't give me that so that was it so I think I believe they wanted to give me 37 I don't remember how you crazy number so everything you've told them you've done that's why you can speak about it it's all covered yet so when I started talking about it I had no qualms some guys would come in and they sat down at the table and there's a lot of people in the room and they asked me they thought I killed some guy Dennis Harrigan so I said I didn't kill him but I killed him I killed him yeah I ordered the killing him and they looked up and I go so now you know I'm serious I'm going to give you what I'm going to give you how could you have trusted them because you could have gave everybody up gave yourself up got life you're known then I was getting life anyway so it was just that was that a last option oh yeah I was getting life too many guys ratted on me how many guys over 60 guys over 60 60 guys gave me up went into grand juries talked all my co-defendants everybody was giving me up see that's the thing they called me a serial killer they called me a loose cannon they called me a rogue they called me all these names then when I came out of jail he never did anything he's full of shit they got both stories but when someone says that I didn't combine because I didn't do anything and call in the poll and tell them take those videos down that I'm the most dangerous guy in Brazil and the most important got to have a court in Brazil and believe me the way they treated me and beat me because I got beaten in there from their government they had me chained up like a Hannibal Lecter with chains around my legs my neck my hands black boxed me they moved me around like that on a regular basis they kept me in solitary confinement and these guys that were with me everybody knows how they treated me so when did it come to an end then John? what I mentally said then I'm a jerk off for being loyal to guys that ain't loyal to me then I said that said it's over was there anyone loyal in that life? is there anybody you can look back on who was 100% done the damage done their time in prison never broke? nobody I did business with or anybody I know they all make their own justification of how they act I did a lot of work and I helped a lot of guys in different families too and when I reached out to them I'm sorry you're hot there's too much heat on you I'm sorry there's too many 302s guys that giving you up like crazy we can't go near this I even asked to see guys that were involved with families that seen lawyers of those families even a lawyer refused to come see me because the guys they worked for told them now I don't go see them you gotta stay away from this too much violence in this case so with your statements did anybody how many people went to prison? I only testified in two trials so the one trial I testified was Charles Connick and he went to jail he got life and who's he? he's not a gangster he was a gangster they made him he was Johnny nice guy Johnny I like we all like them tough guy funny guy, money guy one of the loyalists of John Gotti he was a good guy his brother was a heroin addict crack head did some low life crimes and gave me guns to kill a couple of guys and for 750 dollars he gave up to cruise that I was gonna kill him so I didn't owe him nothing he's another guy you know sold me out sold out Johnny Connick steps on adopted son excuse me so when guys talk about this they don't have knowledge because these guys already betrayed me all of them in different ways so I don't have I don't feel any loyalty to him if you know in jail if he was with me in jail I would have tried to kill him but he wasn't so that's just the way it is you know when people say to me well you feel bad no I don't feel bad I says you know this guy did what he did to me he asked me to do stay loyal to him I kill guys and I said yeah no problem gave me the guns and then you sell me out for a couple dollars because you're a junkie I mean that's not to say he shouldn't have been made in the first place he did something like I said he did some fucking low life killings and crimes that ain't mob related so I'm not with it yeah in my own set of roles I'm surprised they even gave you a deal honestly with the damage that you had done I'm surprised they didn't just want you in well the United States is the way the United States works especially depending on what they want like that's why they gave 60 something guys deals off of me guys were getting hardly any they went to trials they should have got life they didn't do what I did they went to trial lost the trial then they gave me up and they did nothing couple years two years three years five years the problem is they all wanted me and even the way they came to get me when they got me in Brazil they didn't put me on a commercial plane they put me on a Gulfstream 5 with a dozen agents coming to get me this is how bad they wanted me so you know when they come after you like that you know this there's nothing to say you're done it's the United States of America you know it's not like this little town that's coming after you United States of America wanted me my time on the street was finished and the mob betrayed me it's not you know like I said once the mob betrayed me it was over from there and I was disgusted at the time obviously because I believed in these guys and while I was sitting in those penitentiaries and I left my family I left all that money and one after another just giving me up and guys used to tell me all the time in a pen in Brazil why are you even waiting when you do something save yourself your life and I just get because I believed in that craziness and brainwashed myself into thinking I'm being loyal to something that's not being loyal to me so you know guys talk I ran into a guy that I know and he was talking bullshit and he was sitting at the table and I said let me ask you something if you were in jail and your wife just banked six guys because you went to church and said you're going to stay married forever you're going to be loyal to her and he looked at me I go answer the fucking question and then you know I got a little more rude with him about his wife I said so you're going to say loyal to her you all want nothing don't you I said same with you fucking guys I will not need nothing you just fuck me I fuck you back that's it I can't kill 60 it's done when did you go I got out in about 2013 I think the end of 2012 to 2013 something like that what did you end up doing my whole sentence I did 10 years on this case and my whole time I did I was supposed to get 8.5 years credit for Brazil I got they gave me a 3 years they didn't give me any credit I should have got 8.5 years credit for the time because of the way you do your time I did 4 years prior to that I did a year or 2 prior to that then a year so I did about 18 years did you have to go into protection no I never did none of that shit and then you're on to another time people talk about that I thought people would turn snitch at the end they force me and anybody that was in prison with me in Florida knows that they couldn't get me into a solitary consultant cell I was fighting them left and right to stay on the tears and anybody knows me everybody knew the story so to me I said I ain't going nowhere they should go witness protection they should have rat me out so I wouldn't go I was staying in and somebody dropped a note on me finally and said they were going to hit me inside the jail and they grabbed me and I was fighting that and I was like let them hit me they're stuck here with me I'll hit them that's when they put me into solitary that was the end of it after that but it took me it took them a while to get me locked down but right after that I came right back to my neighborhood I still live right here listen I ain't hiding I didn't betray them they betrayed me so there's nothing to say anybody talks any bullshit I want to tell all these gangsters I say it all the time there's so many guys they grassed out here and bosses why don't you fucking kill them you gangsters right you do a lot of talking but you didn't do what we did my generation there were guys like me they talk a lot of nonsense but they ain't doing nothing and I can tell you every rule they broke all of them what are the rules and the mafia John supposedly supposedly you can't admit to the existence of the mafia they all admit because they get three years off their sentence now so even though they said that's not a rat it is a rat one of our rules because they if you're a mob guy they got to prove that you're a mob guy but since these last hundred guys just said the mob exist that's good enough to give you the extra time I says you're not allowed to plead to a position in a mob that you're a made guy, you're an associate you're a captain, you're a boss they all do that too because they saved two, three years you're not so these are all the things that these guys do you're not allowed to sell drugs, we all fucking sell drugs you're not allowed to talk to the media they all talk to the media you're not allowed to write books, they write in books you're not allowed to be on podcasts, they're on podcasts you're not allowed to put your hands on another made guy they do you're not supposed to kill a guy that's a made guy if you put your hands they don't do that you're supposed to be responsible for the guys that rat so if they were responsible all the guys that ratted on me I wouldn't be in jail but they don't want to kill the guys that rat why don't you kill your guys it's just that rat so I can go on so there is no fucking loyalty they're not supposed to touch my personal money it ain't the mob's money they wouldn't touch my personal money you know that I'm supposed to send anybody to speak to my wife they send guys to my wife's house you're not supposed to take my ex-wife and put her on a date with another made guy they did that to when I was in jail so he did everything to me to make me if I could have killed them I would have killed them don't get me wrong but I couldn't and it was just too many of them so it was done the corpus must just sit back and laugh yeah they laugh of course they must just think fuck say I'll see you in five years when yous are all turning on each other or yous have killed each other they must just sit back grab their hands if you watch guys make excuses why they met with the FBI you watch guys where and why is like Joe Messina the last boss who are they bullshitting what kids are they bullshitting they were all rat if you watch Sammy Gravano talking shit and he's hiding Arizona is Sammy in here that we don't know is he hiding under the bed because why ain't he here right they want to go by titles where the fuck is he I'm here this is the point like when guys talk shit well if he's such a tough guy where the fuck are you not just him all these bosses because years ago they didn't rat the bosses because they didn't have Rico as soon as Rico came they rat more the underlings they make guys as a made member of the mob in their underwear and I left because one of my friends got made in his underwear I said why don't you tell your fucking bosses that we're making you getting your underwear we use the guys that are setting us up we do the work and then you set us up so you know who's buying into this I don't know and of course they're going to attack me the way to do because look at the way I talk was there anybody you respected in that life and still do now yeah I respect a lot of it I respect the Johnny Kine a lot I always talk about he's one of the one of John Gotti's main guys over the years he got locked up for a heroin he did a lot of time he did about 30 something years and 30 years and a good guy tough guy didn't act like a jerk off always in boats and motorcycles and hollies and he was a real guy you know he wasn't so I like him because he wasn't he's one of those guys that did put in work he's one of those guys that did do those that time he's one of those guys that were good to the guys to the younger guys to all of us see the Gotti the new one on Netflix I love it as well I love the stories even listening to yourself John I love them because they're exciting, they're interested and they're mad as fuck but even the Gotti thing that works I couldn't understand why he was using the phone I don't get it I don't understand then surely he must have knew that they were wired you know what the problem is it's hard day and night not to talk you know we go to a cafe it's not that you forget it's just it's almost impossible not to talk eventually you're gonna talk and you're gonna say like for 99 hours in a row you didn't talk but if you talk for two minutes that two minutes gets your life yeah you're in a car you can't talk you go to the same restaurant you can't talk you know people think that they gotta bug this table they have ones that bug the whole room so if you're sitting at that table that table that table if you frequent there and they know you frequent there they bug it they get you on the street they bug the the meters where you're walking they bug people wear wires on you I mean they get on and on and on it's it's just not a good life that's why I say the truth what idiot says this is a good life is a fucking liar the only ones that think it's a good life are the frauds the fakers they're white collar criminals they go out they do bullshit things they're not killing nobody they're not shooting nobody they're going out stabbing nobody they're not getting stabbed shot they never been to jails no one did a deep dive in the mob now and see how many of these guys go to prison they don't want to do nothing they talk like tough guys because you know they'll run around with ten guys they're fucking cowards and they'll jump one guy they're not doing any work they're not shooting and they know nobody's going to kill them anymore same thing because they notice the same thing I notice cameras everywhere but those same guys have been around 20 and 30 years ago there was no cameras back then they never did fucking shit all so if they didn't do it then when there was no cameras they ain't going to start now what's the mafia like now the start of four so everything came fizzling out fizzling out I mean there's somebody old time as a gangsters like I said there's a percentage of gangsters that I respect that I say are gangsters I mean I respect them for what they are I don't want to be in that life but there's got to be 5% of them are real 10% of them are real the other 90% aren't the other 90% are full of shit cowards 5% or 10% are real guys there's some tough guys out there that I grew up with that I know are serious guys intelligent guys money-making guys but they know themselves in their heart they can't trust nobody here's the thing how are you going to take an order from your boss no one maybe your boss is going to be a rat like these other bosses it's not like years ago so you take an order and this guy decides to flip you're done or how about if you're one of those bosses how are you going to give an order to an underling and then the guy gets caught with something he doesn't even got to get caught one of his kids get caught in something and he says I got to give up to save my kids life and he's going to give up his boss this way it's over now people say years ago guys didn't flip like this years ago guys didn't get life sentences like this now they're hitting you over the head with life sentences but before if you get 30 years you do a third of it you do 10 years you hit the parole board it's a different world now what's the worst thing about being in the mafia John the worst thing is you destroy your family you know your family whether you like it or not people like I say it all the time if I ever was going to do something again maybe because somebody did something to my family you know guys are fucking cowards they mix I'm around every day so if you want to do something here I am but I say the same thing in a way I don't want nothing I'm not fucking with nobody's money I'm just saying don't fuck with me because my DNA is never going to change it didn't change all of a sudden one day and go oh this guy is a different guy he's a different guy that controls himself he's a different guy that doesn't have an ego he's a different guy that wants a different life so all those other guys that you're involved with on the street whoever they may be go fuck with them they're fucking with your money I'm not even though you know how dark and how much destruction that life causes not just with yourself but everybody around you do you miss it you miss the excitement I always say that but is it worth the excitement of course not you know when people say that you miss it you know you because that's our life you can't erase your life there was a lot of you know joking listen we joke a lot too the guys that I like you know we'd have some fun we joke but is it worth it not at all you gotta be an idiot to say it was worth it you know much suffering we do and you know people talk about you know he thinks tough guy this guy no I'm honest about everything you sit then you cry your eyes out you cry your eyes out in your cell you get up you wipe them and if you gotta kill somebody after you do you go to court you cry because it's your life and stress and what you did to your family but then you wipe them again and if you gotta bust somebody's head you do just human but people don't like to hear the truth right you know so I hear a lot of that all the time a guy's full of shit he hit his wife yeah I did I don't lie I shouldn't have did it but I did I wasn't a beater but I slapped her I shouldn't have slapped her I just I just talk honest because I want kids to really know the truth about this life I know gangsters from every every crew every that are friends of mine that are out of life too and you know whether they're Spanish whether they're black whether Italian and we all say the same thing you know I go to church now I talk about God I go and I got a different outlook on life you know but the same human being you just don't want to cross that line anymore is there a lot of suicide in that leave John because I know not a lot army men who see killings and shootings I know a lot of gangsters as well so called tough men who just couldn't handle what they've seen or what they've done in life take their own life there's a lot of suicide in your life Greg the Palmer killed himself Louis Tory killed himself in jail Greg was started to rat he didn't want to rat he killed himself Louis the Louis Tory same thing he wanted to hear them rat he didn't want to rat his uncle ratted him out and he didn't want to rat he killed himself a kid from Canada I won't say his name it's reason he just killed himself there's a lot I've got PTSD you know so I'm not ashamed to say it I say it all the time I got a lot of veteran friends you know we've seen a lot of action we did a lot of things so you suffer through some of that stuff you have you know you get into the emotional because of PTSD you fight yourself not to go after guys because of PTSD it's listen there's nothing good that could come out of that life and if somebody says I've said this on TV if you're a movie actor if you're a ball player if you're a police officer if you're an executive if you're a lawyer a doctor a complete gangster killer gangster tough guy what idiot wants to put their kids in this life not none of those people I just mentioned if it was so good they'd all put them in this life a gangster throws that kid in this life it's got to be fucking serious garbage because he's got to know what he's doing to his life and this guy's out there to put their sons in this life and you know because they want the money they want them to collect from they want this and they justify their mind oh he's only doing this you're full of shit you know what you're doing you're choosing your ego your greed over your child's life and a lot of them lie to their kids and they admit their kids believe they're tough guys and this is why the kids act the way they do and they don't know who's real who is it because they're all father lies to them see when you're a stone cold killer John and you block everything out and you're just ruthless when does a conscience then come in to play the damage you've done the least that you've took did it ever hit you that you're a violent man yeah I look back and like what the fuck was I thinking it's like I'm talking about another guy now you know I know it's in me because I know when I lose my temper sometimes I think about what I would do to this guy but I also know look what I did to my family and for people I know I lost my daughter last year and thank you and that's the pain that you'll never forget and then I start thinking about pain that caused other people even though they were gangsters just like me I don't have any crimes against like other people yeah I don't have any bad crimes I never killed anybody like an armored guard or anything none of that that's not me I never robbed it even a drug deal and killed them I didn't believe in that I didn't believe in killing about money I killed and this is me trying to justify it I guess I killed guys that were trying to kill me and guys that were trying to make moves against us money wise whatever they're trying to rob us that's what I'm talking about but I wouldn't kill them by just robbing them like take it and tell them if you come after me we'll kill you but those are my own set of rules to justify I guess in my head the shitty life yeah because when you're in that life like you say you're cold you're just trying to do a job and you feel it's normal but see when it then hits you because obviously every mother and father will always love their son and daughter no matter what so when you're taking lives their mums and dad the destruction even if someone took your life the destruction and the pain your dad would have had to went through so see when you're taking other people's lives and I know your daughter God rest her soul passed away with an overdose did that then sink in even more like the destruction of losing sons and daughters yeah of course it does you know what the worst feeling in the world is there's two actually this is the worst feeling at five in the morning please because when you kill somebody every day you wait for that daughter to be knocked on and that never goes away you will never have peace in your life again because you're waiting for that door is going to get knocked and mostly if people think they're getting away with it they're crazy it carries with them for a while just one murder and the other thing is when you're in prison and you hear the jingle of the keys all day those fucking keys you just want to kill the guidance walker with those keys you can't stand opening those doors every steel door through the thing locking and slamming cages those two things are probably the things that I'll haunt you the most about prison is that in the door you know that door is going to get knocked on when you're doing the things we're doing when you go to jail for like bullshit stuff you know you're coming out when we're in jail guys that do work you never have a peaceful moment because you know you're waiting for them to come get you when you're in jail too and hit you with the next charge now even though you suffer through what you used to do you got a clear conscience you're not going to go back to jail for fucking no one's knocking on your door and say well you killed this guy again let's go because you only you know you only get one life and you only get all those years I cheated myself and my kids out of spending time with me for what for the guys that I thought I was loyal to the guys that ain't loyal the guys that won't crack an egg all these bullshit guys that tell you they're gangsters because they put on a supertie and they smoke a cigar and you don't know but if you actually sat down and I've asked a lot of guys why not any of you guys that are doing these interviews asking them walk me through each guy you killed tell me how it happened the killers they say they are they say they're shooters they say they're hitmen okay so tell me this guy what was his name where were you when you did it had you shoot him had you set it up what day did you kill him what year did you kill him what location did you kill him go to the next guy tell me when you shot him tell me how you killed him then go to the guys you killed me tell us trust me most of them you're going to end that one most of them zero the ones are on straight now for me like for families everything for me is everything for me to let my kids my mom my sister my brother in law you had a rough life as a kid you know for the people that don't know I know and the smartest thing you ever did is turn your life I got two of my best friends since we kids they're not fighters they're the biggest men gentlemen around you don't got to do what we do to be a man that's the misconception everybody thinks all you the guys that do what I did are a fucking idiots honestly it's idiots just egos and you can't control your temper before you're very impulsive I learned to control it now but I didn't before I was impulsive somebody did something I want to go after somebody said something I wanted to go after whatever it was whether it was and I did it everywhere in stores in the daytime in the street I went through the windows in the house I did everything now I learned to control that because it's not it's about having a decent life and living with yourself you know and and God has a lot to do with that to be honest did you ever get therapy John? yeah yeah yeah I always went to that that's why I said I'm very open I talk about everything went to Derby for years and you know and it helps me but still I always got a temper everybody has everybody's got a killer in them I don't give a fuck I had amazing women on Sarah Sands who I'm amazing friends with now one of an old man that abused her son she got a blade but around the plug they can't kill them a woman everybody's got it in them it's just about having that element of controlling the older people interview you tend to see everyone have a tough upbringing's broken homes bullied or abused when they're younger they then use that violence for a defence mechanism because they're broken every violent man I know is because they're broken it's not because they're tough they're hiding something and that's from one personal opinion just come through life and interview some amazing people but you tend to see it's because they're broken John but you know what I you know you're right but I'm gonna tell you something one of the biggest things I learned as a kid and I always and I still carry it I respect everybody a 16 year old kid I show them respect because at 16 our kids probably more dangerous even realize but I always show respect and I think when you're in jail a lot of years and you're secure with yourself because you know what you are you don't try to abuse people you don't try to take advantage of people you don't try to talk down to people but all the the cons they do that because they don't in their heart their cons they know they're not they're not men they're not tough guys they're not serious guys and I'm not talking about tough guys being killers either I'm just talking about tough guys as a family man tough guys that go through things people that go through things through life or the heartache in life are generally nice at a people it's these insecure people that do that because they got no good life they don't have good family life they don't have a good job they don't have the ability or confidence to do something so this is what they do because I don't know I know you don't do it I guarantee you know I don't do it do you get up in the morning and go on a computer and see some guys are writing on his page yeah many guys do that to me I'm like what kind of fucking life do you have you're a man you don't like what I say what are you watching it for what are you writing that you're all you know how many a guy just wrote me last week and then I wrote him back shitty and then he's trying to threaten me you know because he knows what he's doing and I'm like hey motherfucker you are writing me you're bothering me I didn't bother you you can have your opinion go have it I ain't writing on your pages I ain't writing you DMs I'm not following you around why you follow me go follow your wife go follow your kids what do you follow me for what's wrong with your life that you follow me what are you what are you so frustrated you want to prove that you're tough I know you're not tough or you wouldn't be right not to me and they don't get it though because if they were tough they wouldn't do that yes a real tough guy I know a million real serious tough guys are such gentlemen I ran into a guy in a summer in Virginia that know the guy he was sitting there with his girl I was there with somebody and back of what we kicked the conversation shook his hand and as I was leaving I said to him I know you've been down for a while I said I could tell just the way you carry some of your gentlemen strong guy big guy young guy and he smiled he goes you could you could tell like a hundred percent I said you don't want to reasons why I know just the way you're such a gentleman you're not an insecure guy I said see you later you know it was over because originally he was sitting and I took the seat I don't know we're sitting he didn't come up like a tough guy I get off my seat he didn't say that at all he's excuse me you know and you said it like a nice guy I said no no and I went to get up he goes no no don't stay but just the way he carried himself you know the guy's real yeah what's the biggest trigger and not leave John yeah it's got to be ruin my life you know listen I can't like I say regret things because I regret my whole life what I do things different a hundred percent it's a shitty life it's it's just not a good life and everybody that tries to glamorize that life it's there is no glamor is there excitement yeah it is it's not even close is it worth it to do it again I would never do it again you gotta be a moron to want to do it again all the suffering all the loss of family all the fucking hours of anxiety pain depression how's it worth do you believe in karma John yeah I believe in God I don't know if this karma I just believe in God I believe that you know maybe it was a purpose behind it that's why I talked to kids about it maybe that's why I talked the way I do I'm very straightforward about the violence and you know people saw he's bragging about it's not bragging it doesn't do what fucking bragging it's a stupid thing people say I'm just trying to be real of what was real what wasn't real and it's not worth it and when you when you when you're really honest and you tell everybody about the crying part or the it's not sleeping part or you know what it was to blow so much head off what to bat them to death they watch too many movies they don't get it if they were sitting here they throw up they wouldn't even be able to stay in a room you tell them stay in a room that's the way they'll learn but you can't do it and get it back if you could say oh you really want to see this since you've got a big mouth here watch watch when someone's dying watch what happens when there's blood all over you watch when they shit themselves watch the smell then they'll understand the same fucking TV what's that like when you see a man dying did you just kill someone and move on or did you actually watch them die watch them and is that to make sure they're dead no you know how you get some sort of kick from it usually you execute I mean you know it depends on the situation when they came to try to kill me on my property I executed them I mean it depends there's other guys like you in a bar incident I don't know if they're dead for sure I mean with Angela when he was the shooter on that I mean I would say they're dead he got I think they got hit with the 350 or Magnum or something he was a big he had a big cannon I just don't remember which type of gun it was but most like he's daddy blood out I mean the one guy I thought for sure was dead right on the scene the other guy probably bled out he hit him in the back did nobody find out was it not news newspapers to find out if they were dead or not there was no internet back then was there no no and you know what's funny all the shootings I did nobody ever knocked on my door not one cop ever knocked on my door and just said something to me you're under investigation or nothing it's a completely different era that's fucking nuts do you ask for forgiveness through life or do you just try and do a good to try and you can never rectify the violence that you've done but if you can stop kids from doing the same mistakes that you've done then I believe it's still a great thing to do but do you ask forgiveness anywhere the life that you've caused through the years oh yeah I mean listen I go to church at least once a week I go to chapel I try to go a couple times a week I ask for forgiveness I try to do the right thing help as many people that call me write me I mean you know like I said people write me some bullshit and I'll write them back bullshit you know that sometimes it depends if they catch me in the wrong move because they're sick of me when they do it honestly I don't even know that that's one thing I need to learn to get over because I can only imagine how kids kill themselves because these fucking idiots that do that teach other kids to do that then the kids that can't handle it kill themselves and get bullied 24-7 because you got these weak minded people that have nothing better to do with their life but write them shit go on some of my shows I mean you got shows they probably do it to you too I just laugh because you were in that life you always had to respect you know the damage you can do it frustrates you because you think you'd know nothing because they are just assholes or just someone sitting in their underpants eating a packet of skittles just hating on life I wear a lot of glasses the guys always writing why do you wear glasses what do you give a fuck about my glasses stupid fucking other guys talking about my hair and all I'm not banging you what kind of hair I got you know it's so crazy I just shaved my hair and people are saying you had a hair transplant and a were fake tan and I'm thinking what the fuck are you talking about who cares even if I did I don't even if I did I don't give a fuck just how's life now John obviously at losing your daughter and I think one of your sons are in prison how do you try and kick on and do the right end life that's why I got a son in prison same thing when he shot a guy he had nothing to do with him he just happened to be sitting out of the house where the guy had a problem with the guy that owned the building he was out in front of another guy so threatened anyway the end up is he ends up shooting the guy the guy leaves two or three times when the guy leaves my son goes upstairs gets a gun the guy shows up my son shoots at him seven times the guy ratted on ganks I told my son I said how did that work out for you why didn't you go in the fucking house and stay in the house in your apartment he goes did you do that I go did I ruin my life he says you should learn from me I ruined my life so now he's at the beach the guy didn't die he's at the beach he's getting laid he's going to eat dinner and you're in jail like a moron so who won and this is where I try to tell my other kids I don't want you guys if I wanted you guys to be gangsters we could have took over well I got four sons I just said a couple cousins well I don't need nobody else but I know what that life is why would I do that to my kids because all I do is suffer now I'm suffering double that because he's there you know it's one thing us being there but then when your kids are there and suffer more and after my daughter it's a pain that's never going to go away anybody that loses a kid it's day and night pain day and night I want to explode don't get me wrong inside I'm so frustrated because I can't change it and you know sometimes when people bother me I'm like I'm looking to take it out on somebody like when I was on the street and they're too stupid to know like stop bothering somebody and you know certain people snap and you know not I'm under control but today but you never know I can't tell you what I'll do two years from now next year next month I just take it day to day that I'm a different person and I'm going to keep it this way and therapy and religion and God it helps me and you know meditating a little bit you know I learned to control myself yeah because people say times are healer but that's bullshit people who say that have never lost a loved one you adapt to the pain the pain's always fucking there you live with it every day but you seem to just adapt to it where you think you accept it today but the pain's always there yeah I told somebody you know when you get a toothache and it hits the nerve because you let it go and you had that pain that doesn't go away just put that in your heart put it in your head and you're never going to stop that pain it's just never going to stop and you know anybody that like I said unfortunately lost a child out there or your baby's always a child doesn't matter how old she or he is it's just so it's unbelievable it never changes the agony in your heart and your head every time you look at a picture every time you go get something to eat you remember them every time you walk down the street you wake up in the light to go to the bathroom when you look at the pictures it's just never going to go away it's never going to get easier it's just going to be that and unfortunately for a lot of people it's so and you know some idiot wrote and said something well that's karma from him and I said this is the fucking dogs mutt whatever word you want to use from coward that says something stupid karma my daughter didn't do anything I did you want karma then wish me that what the fuck is I got to do with an innocent girl this is just weak pieces of shit that say shit like this how much with the trolls because of your life because of my life because of my life if I ever gather them in the room like I said see there's a difference I wouldn't have no qualms with just shooting each one line them up and killing them wouldn't be anything to me and they know it and that's why they do it because they say well I know now he'll never do it again because I hear the way he talks he's got a different life so now I could say what I want there's frustration there's cheating on them either they could never meet a woman either they're fucking broke or they could their cowards every time there was a problem they ran away something you don't act like this for no reason you know there's got to be some sort of underlining hate for themselves why they do it and ain't about me actually it's about them but it's still overall you know listen if you're in a good mood and you're looking for the most part you left once in a while you triggered because maybe whatever from something else what do you think now John if everybody's speaking out gangsters, drug lords shooters how do you see it all everything's changed now this is the kind of but I seen the two-pack guy he just got himself fucking charged for murder sitting on a podcast what's his name he was sitting on a podcast talking about who was there when he shot two-pack and just got charged with the murder oh yeah yeah yeah yeah because if you've got immunity then you can talk about anything but there's people who think because it's 25 years ago please don't fucking forget I don't know why they do it this became a business for me also somebody said something oh he's making money from it no shit I'm in this business I do interviews, I do magazines, I do talk shoes I do movies this is my line of work I'm not a gangster anymore they say dumb people just say some dumb shit that I don't know why they say it like I said it's something with their own personalities because the one thing I don't do is I watch your show obviously and I said I enjoy your show I'm not a hate, I'm like good he does good for himself what's the problem, why am I going to hate you what am I going to dislike you why am I going to wish bad on you why am I driving a nice car I don't hate the guy who's driving a nice car I'm just wondering how he got it what do you do for a living to get that car I want to do what you're doing you want to copy the guy so you can be successful like the guy so if I watch a show I try to take a little point I watch somebody else's I try to take a point from that show what is your show and stuff social media is for people to come and contact we've got a big audience in the UK everybody will know your story anyway it's a little different journey today just try to understand you more what you've done, what you've fucking try to overcome well in the UK I did a lot because I did your TV guide cover I did the GQ center fold I did the Trevor McDonald who's a great guy and I got along great with Trevor and we stayed in touch for a while me and him and actually I got his picture up in the house what means he's a that's a real gentleman the guy's a gentleman they know a lot of stuff I'm talking about because they want prisons, what we all hung out with me so hopefully people listen to it and they understand where we're coming from pretty good I'm talking about what is all your YouTube's and social media stuff for people to come on board and watch your own stuff something you know is under my name John Elite is my podcast if they just go under my name my Instagram is the same Blue checked I think I got about a half a million on that Facebook I'm on that I think I got a lot of pages on Facebook I think like 20 pages or something so I just try to get out there and do a lot of elections for schools and kids and stuff so I stay busy I got a new movie coming out called Pony actually Pony's in development right now and it's about dirt car racing and fentanyl and the reason why they asked me to take the lead part is because of the fentanyl and they asked me if I would do it for awareness for my daughter so I said 100% I mean it's not easy to do because of that but it gets into the fentanyl and how many people in the United States are dying a year and that numbers they keep saying fentanyl deaths in opioids but that number is double people don't know this is it's very hard to detect fentanyl in your blood after they pass away unless you have an autopsy and they look for it so that number is not 100 it's 200 and this government is not doing shit about it they just talk a good game but they got that board wide open and it's causing all kinds of death terrorism and people getting killed on the way over kids are getting raped, they're getting child traveling they're sleeping on the street it's not humanitarian, it's terrible what they're doing so as fentanyl for people who don't know because we don't have that in the UK fentanyl is like a grain of salt salt could kill you so what they're doing is they're putting it in cocaine so if you're asking for cocaine they're putting fentanyl you snort it and notch it out and they use it actually in hospitals in which we have an operation it's very lethal these dummies can control it but it's very addictive so that's why they're putting it in so they can keep people addicted to their drugs and they make crazy money for a kilo of fentanyl you can make a million dollars off it because you put a little drop they're putting it in marijuana they're putting it in pills, they're putting it in diet pills they're putting it in Adderall for college students they're putting it in everything you can think of and people are dying left and right here listen I sold drugs back in the day I've done a lot of stupid shit not to your level but see when you sold drugs as well and other people are destroying their life throughout your own greed my greed is that when you then look at your life as well and think fuck me look at the shit that I've done is that changes hard John you know yourself you're still trying to change you're still trying to do good but see when you start questioning it all when you start waking up to life and start understanding the mistakes that you've made to be even thinking that was normal how hard is it to then see all the shit that you've done and then sometimes I say well to see what I've done maybe this had happened to me so I can wake up to what you're saying because I wasn't waking up to it before I was going out and buying a Corvette convertible cash back in those days I was the car going buying a Mercedes cash going to buy houses and properties and I thought it was successful but you left out the part of how I got there you know you bullshit yourself but now you when you change your life and you're doing the right thing you start learning like maybe this was a purpose and needed to go through all this the suffering all the years in solitary confinement because I spent years in solitaries and you know it was conditions in Brazil and maybe that's what I needed to wake up to say that this life is all bullshit get into do the right thing with your life and you know and you wake up and you start realizing the society and these young kids something so when you start doing positive things hopefully when they listen to this and other shows like this they say themselves oh this ain't all glorified like I thought it was you know so they don't follow this go be a truck driver and you can get rich you don't gotta go to college I tell everybody you know get a career as a a electrician a carpenter a plumber you can get very wealthy you can have a good life just get a trade any kind of trade be a camera man I mean there's a million jobs you don't have to be a lawyer a doctor that's you know the old you know thinking but thinking out of the box you don't need that be rich either to be happy so How's life like today John? I mean I try to get through things life's so it's a different type of struggle now because what we mentioned earlier but I try to stay positive I try to be a motivational guide of people and say listen we all go through struggles that's what life's about is just up and downs and struggles and you gotta get to the finish line doing the right thing not the wrong thing so as things keep happening you gotta be smart and go in the right direction and hopefully we'll make change by leadership not by you know by our actions just before we finish up because I know you've came to went back and forth where did that came to beef stock because he was talking nonsense about kids and me helping kids and he said fuck them and then I got into he killed that 15 year old kid wasn't a gangster and I'm like you're a coward man I said you don't even want to admit it you sold drugs with your family you won't admit it you got it you're a racist bastard because he knows I have a lot of black friends Spanish friends and we got into that and he's got an AB fake AB tattoo on him so you came a bullshit say you're not you got the tattoo on you you're a fucking racist your daughter was friends with his daughter his daughter's nice I mean I got along good with his daughter she dated a black guy she has an interracial he has an interracial granddaughter pretty girl nice girl so now how you now that you got that dumb tattoo on your chest or on your arm wherever you put it I says how do you relate that now so this is why I'm reading about the guy honestly I haven't done he's a phony he's not a tough guy who wouldn't be hiding in Arizona he'd be here just like I am and you took and borrowed $3,000 off me and I give you the $3,000 you took it you won't pay it back you're just a fucking low like just that's why I keep saying it I says I won't stop saying it I really ain't never going to say it because it's the point and I'll take the $3,000 in front of you and throw it out the window it's not the $3,000 I'm just going to keep abusing him to show what kind of character of this guy you know imagine he won't even address it address the $3,000 why won't you pay it you said that you owed it you said it on your own show so why won't you pay it I mean he's just a fucking coward you got a half a million in Brooklyn you let Louis take it from you and you didn't do nothing but you're on these stupid shows telling everybody you're on the boss and you got records up that you killed Paul Castellano when you didn't kill Paul Castellano you had nothing to do with it you know possibly you were five blocks away you caught him in so many lies I don't believe him Why did you do your free food? He had no money he has to borrow $3,000 and then he made some stupid story up and you know he went on 40 minutes talking about me on a tape that's on my Patreon about you know I'm a tough guy killer blah blah blah you know all that stuff and now he's trying to retract saying he just did it because of the $3,000 so you had that much of a clown to even say you imagine if that's true that you took $3,000 just to say that so you know again either way he's a he makes a clown of himself so and so I don't know how that's that's never going to go away because I don't respect the guy I just think he's a fucking big mouth. For anybody watching John that's maybe thinking about going down that leaf of crime what advice would you have for them? We'll go look at the end up of everybody the bosses Joe Massino wearing a Y and Sammy Gravano hiding in Arizona this is the life you want that life and that's what you'll get nothing but suffering lose your family and not have a good life it's just not a good life it's not if it was a good life I'd say hey I promote kids into life why wouldn't I instead I promote him into doing the right thing John would you like to finish up on anything else? No just that you know on a positive note I said it the other day but there was a guy Louis it was in a restaurant Spanish guy I believe is Spanish with his girlfriend and I was on the other side of the restaurant I got up and chased him outside the door to tell him that you know everybody always wants to talk negative about people but he got up to help this old white guy that was in a wheelchair and she was with a wife and another older they couldn't get him in he jumped up and helped him so people always talk a negative there's something positive you know there's some good people out there still and very humble guy I said that I would talk about him and I meant that I said because it just kind of I shook my head I said finally did some you know see some nice people that really just genuinely good guys there be anybody you'd like to sit across from and do an interview with or any victims families as well I've talked to victims families I did do that I spoke to victims families when I first came home met with them sat in a house with them emotional you know you cry you talk you know they lost loved ones because of me and you know we talked it out and they were gangsta families too so they understood the life but we don't understand why the fuck we live that crazy life and you know it gets emotional obviously because you're destroying their family and I met them there the families of the people you had killed and some of them were also killers so you know it's a dangerous situation because I didn't go with nobody by myself too you never know what's on somebody's mind but it was it was rough to do it but I had to do it I needed to talk to them why? what you said living with myself conscience trying to get forgiveness for myself and for them for our lives so trying to talk about talking to other kids about not following the pain that we caused each other and other people not easy to do did you rate John Gotty as a boss? I mean no one's perfect I mean as a you know I looked up to him so as a boss in the street he had some really good qualities of he knew how to maneuver people as a street guy he could have been a CEO I told people this because he just knew how to maneuver people he had a charisma about him and he was good to hang out with drink with and he was good to me he treated me more like it doesn't matter what other people said I don't care but I was in his house I slept in his house I was with him all the time I was in all the weddings I was around constantly holidays I mean I guess you've seen it all picking him up from court he trusted me he liked me he looked up to me he looked at me I looked up to him because I had a similar background he grew up on Jamaica Avenue where I grew up he went to the same high school where I went he had a rough life so he lived in Cherry Hill where I lived later on in Jersey when he was in trouble so we had a lot of things in common and listen nobody's perfect like I said it's a shitty life so there is going to be no good raiding for anybody in that life did you ever go to work with somebody who shot themselves and didn't want to do it you were surprised I mean there was a guy Frankie that was out in Long Island he ran out at a place where I was in the middle of doing something so there was a lot of listen at the time I was steam but I wanted to kill him there was another guy that ran out of another situation with me Vinny in the middle of a drug deal I wanted to kill him you know guys are trying to be involved and be part of something and faking their way through and they're not about it and that's fine and now I look back and say well they were smarter ones not doing it so just before we finish up John Leica says if I'm coming on they didn't give me a time telling your story listen I've thoroughly enjoyed that I believe you're a good guy I believe what you're trying to do is amazing and you deserve that you're always going to get our souls speaking and talking shit but that is what it is John would you like to finish up on anything else no just anybody that suffered a loss of a child God bless them follow black posted project with Dee Gillan it's a great project she does with families that lost family members from Fatnall and opioids so John listen thank you God bless you mate God bless you thank you and take care appreciate it