 and welcome to this live show right here, we're streaming of the internet where a lot of things are happening around the world. And hello, so please introduce yourself. I usually say, who are you? I'm Roberto Nucenti and I'm a person that is very active in social field and in technical side of activity, informatics, free software, open hardware. Even if I'm not an expert myself of hardware, together with other volunteers, we have set up a community five years ago, then after two years, so around three years ago, we have set up an association, a profit association, to try to build up an open hardware motherboard for notebook, and we have set up an association that not only is active for this difficult project to set up an open hardware motherboard notebook with the PowerPC architecture, but even we set up an association that in general is active for different side of free software and sharing the knowledge. So actually, you are doing a PowerPC notebook project and you've been working on it for a little while, right? And you've been talking to me, chatting to me about when we're going to do this live chat. I'm sorry, we didn't do it a little bit earlier, but it seems that you are still in a phase of designing a PowerPC-based laptop, is that right? Yes, yes, is right, is the idea, that the project start a little bit of time ago, I mean in 2014, at the end of 2014, and that moment was a good moment because other project was started to design other notebook open hardware based on other architecture. And PowerPC was not used in consumer and the last notebook realized from Apple was a year ago and so was a difficult fight. But we believe, we have believed and we believe that was an interesting architecture and was good for a notebook. So we have started this difficult fight time ago. So is there like a community of PowerPC fans out there who are excited about this? Or I can imagine some people have been working on PowerPC projects for many years. How long back does it go? It goes to like the 80s, no, or the 90s. No, kind of like more like the 90s, but there was stuff in the 80s also, right? In fact, the PowerPC is one of the more recent architecture because it's designed the processor in 91, so it was more new than ARM, than X86 and many others, except in the last days, I mean days, view risk, but in relation to the other, it was an architecture that had more experience thanks to the previous architectures. So it's very important because now or in any case, from five years, when already FreeSoft and Linux was around many devices, in particular, ARM in mobile, we ever see that Linux can change the architecture from, say, X86 to ARM or other, even PowerPC. So thanks to FreeSoft, we have started this project because we have the occasion, the possibility that never was possible because the problem of PowerPC before the FreeSoft was, all the software was written for X86, so it was very difficult for close architecture like Mac OS and other OS to migrate to another architecture. But thanks to FreeSoft, this is a task that is already ready and so we can try this because thanks to this sharing community that is the FreeSoft and the open source community. So as far as I understand, PowerPC is a reduced instruction set system, right? Which is like a cousin of the ARM kind of. And so it kind of means that it's much better than Intel, right? Yes, yes, and in fact, when we have started our project, was not already build open power foundation, that is a foundation where there are many, many, many environment parts other than the architecture that share the bios, the layer of our hardware around the process or so. Respect to X86, there is a more open community. And recently time have even the instruction set that it is not chained by royalty. So there is a situation more near my feeling that is the feeling of FreeSoft, of share, of open, the college, the resources. So as far as I understand, there's a bunch of PowerPC happening in the embedded world, like NXP is doing some chips and some other companies are doing some embedded CPUs that have PowerPC, right? And there's also, I see when I go to super computing conference, I see IBM showing huge server systems based on power. And I think, is it true that they claim to have something like double the performance of an Intel server in a specific market of what they're doing, which is virtualization or something like that? And how is that related to the PowerPC notebook? Okay, the PowerPC notebook is based from the NXP processor because it's more on the market of embedded at the moment, but at the moment could be that the situation change in the near future. Power architecture from IBM are more oriented to the server. So they have a very powerful processor with a very huge number of core with optimum efficiency. Our choices was to use a processor not for server because we have started the project for notebook. So we have used an NXP processor that are a processor with a more modest number of core because it needs to be run by battery, no? But in any case have the same, the similar extraction set, I mean that there are little difference between the Altevec modality because Power9, Power8 can run in little endian even with the acceleration, but NXP processor cannot run in little endian with the acceleration. So there is for us a bit of work to follow the big endian distribution of Debian or other Linux distribution. So there are little difference. So how far, because it's in the title of your website when I see it says, you know, Linux open hardware, that's kind of like the first part of the whole title and then it says PowerPC notebook. So it's for sure Linux on PowerPC. And how far is that in general? Like for example, just some things that people know. I mean, I would guess as far as I remember that the Wii, maybe the Wii U and the PlayStation 3 and stuff like that, they're all using PowerPC. Are any of these Linux based or they were not? They were like using kind of proprietary OSes, right? Yes, yes, yes. In fact, the gaming console that use a, not a general purpose OS, but a specific purpose OS for gaming, in general have changed architecture more frequently than other PC than the PC because they have a reduced number of application and the game have rebuild from scratch. Or in any case, they have cross-platform system development. So in fact, it's more simple for the console the change of architecture. In any case, Linux is running in PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360 from the beginning. So we can see in any case in many architecture, run in Linux even if architecture related only to some particular field. So this is the situation. On these supercomputers that IBM are selling and are any of these like embedded products that NXB or other people are making power? Are they using Linux? Or is it some kind of IBM, Watson OS kind of thing running on there that's kind of like a proprietary and that's not Linux? No, no, no, there is, IBM is using with power eight, nine, seven. All the release of it's a processor, run the more common distribution like Ubuntu, Debian, SUSE and Void Linux and others Fedora and so on. So it's very good supported Linux. So means that there is a software developer that inject and contribute to the code of the many parts of the kernel or other part of GNU. So yes, even I think they can run the more classical legacy OS of IBM, but in any case, thanks to the interest of IBM to this world, the processors, the power PC processor and in particular, the more recent one are very well supported. Even if we can improve if we go in the consumer side and we can improve the performance of the processor we go in the consumer sector, we will improve this support. So there's one comment from Andy Freik. He's talking about the VLE, the variable length encoding aspect of something that NXP has been doing, I guess, or what is this? Is this something that, do you know about this? What is, did you see the chat message that he's writing? Yeah, he says, power PC VLE, especially E200 are still popular, but are slowly more often replaced by ARM. Do you think there is a future for embedded power PC? Power PC VLE was also deleted from power PC ISA 3 and then there's a sad face. Okay, okay, okay, understood. Even if I'm not an expert of this detail, but I understood and the person that asked, no, what is asking? Okay, so I've checked that in the last ISA there is the latest something that was inside before. So, no, in particular, I have no knowledge about this detail. In particular, he asked in relation to the embedded market, what I can say that in this moment is not the main market of IBM. So, and the NXP is very active in ARM architecture, more active than in power architecture. So, this is the situation. So at the moment, I can be agreed that the older power is not to develop in particular for embedded. So, I've been doing video blogging since 2004. I mean, since as early as I could try to do it. And I remember one video I did with one of the designers of the cell processor for the PlayStation 3. I think it was a guy that was kind of like IBM, maybe Sony or something like that. And it was really interesting. And they were talking about Linux support, I think, in my video from 2006. And I saw something recently where some people, somebody was saying that this amazing cell processor, which is PowerPC from 2006, PlayStation 3, actually rivals some of the newer Exit 86 kind of performance on specific kind of, you know, like that was always the challenge for them. It was using all the power of that cell. But I guess that's another part that's not really maybe PowerPC related. That's on the SoC that does acceleration of a whole bunch of other stuff. But in general, the world of risk, and I guess, PowerPC is that you can customize and have extra performance and stuff like that, which is maybe one of the reasons people were designing PowerPC chips. I don't know if that makes sense. But regarding the cell processor, I remember that in the moment that was going out was one of the few of the unique processor with so much core, even if our specific core for manipulation with signals, but was very strong advanced for the time. What happened now? I think thanks to the open ISA, I think that will be more simple to see many the derivate from the basic extraction set. I mean probably as is not a problem to build up a power processor, I mean for other factory, for other silicon factory other than IBM, probably will be more simple to see many different flower, many, many different extension. And as they are open, come back in the same, could be they come back in the same main line. So probably we can see something we have seen with the Linux scanner or with other open source software. So it can be that this architecture can grow up in many different direction, even if it starts already with many, many, many functionality. So is it okay if I add your screen so you can share from your screen and explain what's latest with the design of the PowerPC notebook? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I'm gonna click like this, boom, there. Okay, so what are we looking at here? Okay, this is I go to the first page. Okay, this is the first page of our electric schematics, electronic schematics of our notebook motherboard designed around the processor, PowerPC, NXP processor. You can see here the block diagram where there is the main component, then that you can... Can you zoom in on that, is it possible? Yes, yes, yes, yes. And for example, we can see except the main processor that is in... So what's the processor, yeah, can you explain? Is the NXP T2080, it is what is in pink color and connected to this processor. There are controller for SATA 3, M2, with other switch that can connect audio chip and USB 3 controller. There is a particular solution that we use video card that is upgradable. So we use a connector, a MXM connector that permit us to upgrade. So now we have here written a model of AMD video card but the people can upgrade. So this is a particular solution. And the other information, not particular, there is a USB hub to connect other part of the notebook. What we can say that... So this is the block diagram and every part is already designed in terms of schematics. So it's already... It's a big work to do that, no? So who did that? It's a big work, yes. Our group is a group where our association is a no profit. We are all volunteers. So we have different people, few, very few that have competence in hardware. So it was not possible to us to realize directly. So we have involved in the project, another organization, a designer, a factory that is a cube system. And so thanks to the donation of the people, we have realized the design paying an engineer to realize that. What we have done is a revision. So we have a few people in the association that can look to the job, to the worker realized. But even now we are in the PCB design, we are. And we are in the campaign for the PCB design. And even for this step, that is more near to the prototype because after the next step, we will make the prototype for this part, we pay the engineer to design. So can we go back to your screen right here? There's one question from Martin Crest. Yes. He's asking, what is, what's called TDP is a thermal. Okay, the processor, the processor TDP. Yeah, how much power is it gonna use and stuff like that? Is that what the question is? Okay, okay, the processor we have selected is around the maximum TDP is 18 Watt. Is a four core with dual thread every core, so our eight thread is a processor that is going out five years ago because we have started five years ago, but as we are all volunteer and we take time. So, okay, so I mean, I say that because it is a process that have a miniaturization that is not the best because it's 28 nanometer because this processor is not for consumer, is for aerospace, for military, for activity that not need the same refresh of consumer. Like airplanes, no? Like airplane systems use PowerPC or something like that? Yeah, even they won't go to the moon with the sentinels. So he's very, very strong in terms of affidavit of, because he's... So you can go in a sauna with your laptop. Oh, okay, yes, yes, okay. Yeah, just, yeah, or maybe something like that. I don't know, it's like, it's built for the moon and for Mars and, you know, okay, so maybe. No, it's very powerful. It's that kind of chip. It's very powerful in thermal networking because it's very much used even for networking. So I have a huge number of capacity to encrypt, to manage a package for networking. So even if you can see in this schematic, you can see there are two ethernet. One is not connected. It is this with eight pin header is something that remain internal because I must remember that we have not designed the chassis ourselves. We use an already built chassis. So we have used the same space, size and connector. So in this notebook, that is the SlimBook notebook, there is one ethernet. So we use the same little IO board of this original book that is a separate board that have only one ethernet, like usually the other notebook, but we have another ethernet that is hidden inside. It is this, and so people can expand it. But the possibility of the processor itself is very much more than only two ethernet can arrive to 10 in this process. So those 18 Watts, is that the standard kind of thing that we see? For example, I'm using an Ampar and Chromebook, the Samsung Chromebook Plus right here, or is it more similar to an X86? How far is 18 Watts? Do you say 18 Watts? It sounds like a lot, no? No, I say core, eight core, I mean four real and eight virtual with dual thread. There are also model more powerful of the processor, but not in terms of TDP, the problem was in terms of cost because this processor that can arrive to 24 core, we have not select because cost too much, because the sector in which they use have different price instead of consumer. So this processor have 1.8 gigahertz that is not too much, but in any case, we use it with a developer kit we have set up a desktop with this developer kit. And so we have already tested some performance. It is even if our motherboard will be more powerful because the dev kit from XP is very simple, have not all the architecture that we have made around with controller and processor and so on. In any case, we have see that even if the clock is not too high, the number of core is good for a notebook is very good the experience using the buy-in with this processor. So do you think all the features that fans of the PowerPC would want is there? Like there's one question from Paseo, is this only EMMC storage? No, expect storage, there is SATA 3 and M2 storage. There is the possibility to plug a SATA 3 SDD, HDD or even the M2 storage. So there is not the DVD because the chassis that we use have not as many other chassis now have not the DVD, have the space for the HDD and for the M2. What is this MXM module? MXM is a standard interface. Like when you use a PC and you put in PCIe your video card, this is the same in notebook. In a notebook, you use the MXM that is a standard interface between video card, especially designed for MXM interface. So I don't remember exactly the number of pins. So in any case, support all the video signal. And so the notebook can be upgraded. So you can put around the computer you can put another video card except the notebook will have a video card that is inserted, but you can upgrade. In any case, we will have some parameters to guide how much TDP have because in any case, we use the MXM 3A that is not the bigger one because the bigger one is too much big to put inside a notebook. In any case, in theory, can arrive even to 100 Watt but I think we will not permit this. I think we stop to upgrade until 50 Watt. In any case, this particular detail is not already defined. We are fine-tuned with this information. So the last PowerPC MacBook, was that 10 years ago? Yes, yes. So what's the performance of that compared to this? What do you think? I think a little bit more than 10 years. I think because it was 2006, probably 14 years. 14 years ago. 14, I think. Nice. So what do you think is performance difference? But I have a G4, a G5, as many of ours of the association. So we have already compared in terms of experience, at least when we go to the presentation, we go with our desktop version, the reduced version of this. And so we can show to the people running to the application, video, many other things, is incomparable because even in relation to the G4, G5, so the more powerful that going out with Mac, with Apple is very, very simple to experiment the difference. So I don't know how much times, but it's another type of experience, yes. So another type, does that mean better? Better, yes, sure. So you're better than Steve Jobs? No, no, no, I'm only a volunteer. I'm only someone that sometime like to try to launch impossible project. And there are many, many, many people that join with very good behavior with generosity, with more competence than me, more inspiration, more precise, so I don't know. It could be that I was more crazy than other, I don't know. So some of these, what you call enthusiasts of the PowerPC, do they have this history in working with this architecture in the past? Yes, yes, in the project there are volunteers that are one side, one good part are people that is from much, many more, very different from many more, very much time is years that are already active to support PowerPC architecture, but there are even other people that are near to the Amiga OS, other people that are near to the free software in general, so they like to decide to design together a motherboard that is designed around GNU Linux. Other are lover of open hardware, so there are different companies because we know from the beginning that it was a very difficult project in particular selected this project for notebook. And so even if we were not sure to have such as with PowerPC is open even for other architecture, even for other activity, for example, we recycle old notebook, we install Linux, PowerPC, but not only PowerPC. So our spirit, our soul is open with many different flavor of people. And so there's another question here. I found out how to put it in the chat. It says David Koch is asking from the Koch brothers, maybe. What benefit face to arm equivalence? So what is the history of just arm versus PowerPC? Because they're both risk, right? So that PowerPC go into some kind of more like higher performance kind of road and arm went to Nokia phones and small things. There was this kind of thing that happened or what would you say? See, I blessed the moment, I thanks the moment in which arm was very, very diffused in the mobile. So it was a very important moment. Thanks I think to the free software, to Linux and to all the environment around. So I thanks very much in that moment and in fact, the first open hardware notebook project and prototype and product start with arm. So for me it was a very good moment because broke a monovision where there was only one architecture. And so it's very, I mean, this project was possible to think only because before there was arm and there was people that build up project of open world hardware with arm. So I think the destiny of the project is connected to the destiny to the story of arm. So yes, I think the arm is growing up to be a more light processor, more near to something that consume less energy. Even if in any case, power PC was a near cuisine, a little bit more full of extraction, at the beginning, I mean. And so a little less, a little more angry of energy, but a little more. So in any case, more good for a notebook than from my point of view, in relation to X86. Power PC is, I think it has a good point of application in mobile in terms of notebook. And the reason why X86 was able to move very good, even notebook is for the continuous miniaturization. But in terms of the same miniaturization, I think risk and so arm and even power PC are more good for this side. So I think that. Also, one time I did a video at the booth of the OpenPower Foundation, I believe. So is this what's happening? What's happening with the, who kind of controls the power of future? Is there a future? I mean, I'm joking, but is it IBM or is it not IBM? Or how does it work? Is it free? I take part personally in OpenPower Foundation from the beginning. So 2013 before I was in another initiative before of another factory that is related to power PC. So in general, I follow this in 16, 16, see our association is build up the Power Progress Community Association and we join the OpenPower Foundation. So is very, very good because even if in effect with our project, we doesn't use the power processor that is in the OpenPower Foundation because they use, they have developed the power user tree, but our processor that is the only one that we can use with notebook at the moment have the older ISA. So even if we doesn't exactly use the technology that this foundation promote, in any case they support us, in particular, even the Houg Blaming have in its presentation, OpenPower Foundation in Australia have mentioned, have told that there is our project. So my experience, because for the reason that we don't use directly the technology of OpenPower Foundation, I am not so much involved, but I'm involved in terms of collaboration. So we take a part to coffee, to virtual coffee with other enthusiasts and other people from, I don't know, Voidelinos distribution that's up of power. So what I say, what is my experience that is open way to share the document, the working group they produce if I'm not active in any working group. I am a member, so I receive a notification, I can vote, in any case I have the occasion to talk even with people important in the organization of OpenPower Foundation. And so is an environment very, very open that I have not find in other place. So what I can say is my spirit is very positive of this foundation. So maybe we can take one more question from a captain Salman is asking, Sir Roberto, can I have one for free? But the question that I would kind of ask is how will people be able to get this one? And so are you crowdfunding or what's exactly what's happening? See, what is a donation campaign because the Crown Funding General is related with a product, with a prototype. But as we are an association, we doesn't commercialize any things. So we have designed already the schematics. We are in the moment, in the middle of the path to design the PCB. And so the schematic we have already released public, we open hardware, we upgrade soon a new release of the schematics. Then, so in any case, what we can, what we provide directly as association will be the project, the design. So for the prototype, sure, we realize a few to demonstrate that it works. And a CUBE system at the moment is the producer and with the collaboration of Slingbook is the producer that when we finish the prototyping, a CUBE is interested very much to sell to this product. In collaboration with Slingbook because Slingbook is provided the body of the notebook. And the CUBE will produce the mother bone. So when we'll be ready, depends even how much, how many people know our project because at the moment, I know that many people doesn't know. And we have a goal to close the PCP donation campaign in the end of June. In fact, we have postponed due to the COVID emergency that's locked down, obviously, the donations. So the idea is to finish the design of the PCB at the end of June. Most can be that the PCB campaign stop in June and we can imagine that take a little more time to conclude. But in any case, after that, we need to start the other campaign, more little that is to the simulation then the campaign for the prototyping. And so the idea is to go fast, but we can guarantee the timing because depend from the donation. So if I go in here and I go into Slingbook, so they are helping to do the whole design of the laptop, is that right? Slingbook is providing the body. I mean their model Eclipse, Slingbook Eclipse that you don't see in the product is the bigger one. We have selected this chassis that you can see in our web page that there is the chassis. It is the same of Slingbook Eclipse is a notebook that have the capacity to host, to be a host to our motherboard that is quite big, I mean not big because itself because we have even a separate video card. So we need more space. And so we need a good dissipation of power because we have a powerful video card. So we have selected a chassis that have a good dissipation. This is a typical gaming notebook. Is it this one there I'm looking at, do you see? Yes, yes, this is the chassis that you saw except to can change only the writing will be a little bit different, but the chassis is this. Inside, instead to have X86 motherboard, there will be the power PC motherboard with a upgradeable powerful video card. And so I think you also have a YouTube channel, right? I'm just trying to find that one. Yes, yes, yes, yes. There is a YouTube channel, see? It is the one where there is our video. So if you start from our donation campaign video, you jump into the our video channel, YouTube channel, where there are a few, even if you click on the donation campaign, there are also a few video where there is the demo with some games, 3D games. So there is some demo. I think maybe you have some neighbors watching Netflix or something is using a little bit. I don't know if it's on your side, on my side, it's a little bit complicated, the internet high works. There is the next question. Have you considered starting with a small desktop Nuke style device that way price could be considerably lower than a proper notebook, seeing MacBook versus Mac mini? Yes, yes, yes. This is in fact already in the design, I mean the design, I mean the project, but we have started with the project of notebook that is sure more complex, more expensive in terms of, particularly in terms of product, in terms of design is quite similar. But after this goal, we need to focus in this. We are open too. We want to see even what happened in the change in the PowerPC processor from OpenPower Foundation because it could happen in the next two years that other Silicon will produce other PowerPC processor and can be that the next one will be more good to fit in something like Raspberry with PowerPC because at the moment there is the processor that we use or even the lower version or the bigger, very bigger for the service. So I think in a couple of years, we will see other opportunity to this. So we have the time to conclude this project and to see for the next one. So if people support right now, they're just helping you to do the PCB, right? And then what do you think will be the price for one of these laptops? So as I have told, it doesn't sell directly the notebook. It will be a cube, but in any case what we have shoes is to produce the motherboard in Italy where it's based myself and even a cube systems. So this means to pay in a more honest way the workers and even means to produce in a little number because at the moment we are imaging that I don't know, 200, 300, I don't know how many, but some hundred people is the people that we imagine that reach our project, no? Reach in term of buy a product, no? So if you produce in a little number of pieces, you produce in a country where there is a good or in any case honest retribution for the worker and you do that because it's a value because for us it's important how the people work. So you must imagine that and you use a chassis that is a gaming notebook. So when you think of a gaming notebook, you imagine to pay more than 1,000 euro. If you imagine to use a gaming notebook that even have an upgradable video card, you imagine around 1,500, usually normally, no? So in any case, our chain is that we produce a cube, not a cube, a cube we produce in a little number of pieces and in a country where the work is remunerated better than in other country, no? Not the best, but in any case is an honest retribution. So this notebook will not cost less. I mean not less than 1,500, but probably not too much more than. So I think in any case, if there are people that spend 3,000 euro for design, for I don't know other value, there are people that for the value of open hardware, value of free software to design another border for free software, to develop work, to develop, to design something for people that ask can give value to pay more than discounted notebook. So here's a question from Joe Kai Katie. Does corona affect the manufacturing process assuming that you are manufacturing in China? And I'll try to do a video about China in the future, but you are actually in Italy, right? Yes, no, the manufacturing of the motherboard will be in Italy. For example, a cube will do in Italy. The project is open hardware, so could be that someone other can copy, I don't know, but a cube producing in Italy. The chassis that arrived from sleepbook, yes, is produced in China. There is not the, for us is there is no possibility to find in Italy someone that produce notebook chassis with all the parts, so it's something that we can manage. We will see in the future if other factory join and can do in its counter, there is no problem. So I can hear from your accent that you are in Italy, right? So it must have been, if we can talk a little bit about the corona, it must have been really strange. Yes, yes. The atmosphere. But the atmosphere in Italy change in the places. So in my place, one is the more beaten from this. Are you in the north? Yes, yes. In particular in Lombardy, so in the place, not in the province, more affected, but near. So. You are near Lombardy? Lombardy is the region. And in the region, there is a place that is more, it is not my place, but in any case in my region that is a percentage very high. So I am working from home from 40 days, 40 days, see, to one more than one month. And what happened that is, the people is stressed to stay home. Now, luckily the curve is down. So there is, we can see a solution of the situation. But for me was stressed to stay on the time home. In general, I like to move myself. And so there is anxiety about the situation. So it was not simple. We have even other problems that are not isolated to the economy, like many other countries. So this lockdown in this situation where there are even situation already compromised in terms of economy is difficult. So for myself as an informatic person, I have continued to work, but I'm not so happy about the general situation. So I hope like in the other country, they inject the needed amount of money that are only bit in computers. So there is not any scarcity of money in reality. I hope that they need even here because it's only the oil that make the economy run. It's not the resources. Money is only oil. And what do you do? So you work from home? What's your day-to-day kind of thing? Yeah, I design virtual infrastructures. So usually the people I tell that I am a DevOps, I don't know, something like this. I design even software infrastructure. I mean microservices and application or I integrate different software. So it's more heavy because it's more difficult working with my colleague. So in the house there are my children that are not so little. They follow the video lesson of the school. So after 40 days, I like to come back to the office. Not only to stay home. Can your children help with the software? No, no, my son is good in blender design, but he will start electronics next year in high school. But at the moment, he's not involved directly. Other children, other children are involved. Some other collaborators are some daughters that design some patterns for the media. So there is some collaboration even from young people. So hopefully this whole Corona thing is gonna be seasonal or under control, hopefully with treatment or some people talking about vaccine and everything. So hopefully society will come back to normal. And as you were mentioning, you're talking about that there is so much money in society. And one thing I've been fighting with for 10 years or more is all these, I'm always waiting for awesome arm power laptops, but there's never the money. There's always Intel somewhere hiding, like the Intel agents, they're hiding and they jump in and they kill projects. Hopefully when I look at the Open Power Foundation, for example, I see logos of Google and all these IBM and big companies. There's so much money out there. And also the EU needs new projects, needs new talents to work hard on new kind of cool things. And this could be a great project to work on, to have some kind of like a new European laptop. So potentially it could be, it's just a question of what's gonna be the restart of the society? What's gonna happen? And maybe this could be part of that. So to do new kind of awesome, new special projects. By imaging a change of the society in terms, so I like not to come back in the same situation. I want to go further. And so I imagine that a society with more democracy even in terms of distribution of college. So why is that? In terms of distribution of college. So why continue to produce only in few countries? Why only to have engineer that must go abroad? Why not produce in every country? Why not design out in every country? So I imagine something more distributed, some more similar to a bigger blockchain, some more similar to decentralization. I think is the moment of our society is going to the decentralization, not to decentralize. So I hope that is a contribution to share knowledge, to stimulate new engineer, new innovation for humanity, not innovation only for profits or something very different in paradigm. Yeah, monopolies are kind of like the real virus. They're like, they're really corrupting society in a way that's really, maybe people think I'm crazy when I say, but when you look at Microsoft and Intel, I think they have slowed the potential of humanity's progress. Because if there was more architectures and more options out there, then laptops would be cheaper, more diverse, more special. There would be more innovation and we'd be on Mars by now. So hopefully in the future, there'll be more diversity that might be possible out there. Yes, I think in general, every monopoly is not healthy for the evolution of the humanity in every kind of situation. You can see in the biology, the multiplication of complexity guarantee the evolution, the possibility to continue to the life when you select only few types of vegetables, only few types of animals, a few types of cultivation, you risk to destroy the equilibrium. So I think even for human organizations, the future is with the multiformity, with the convergence of diversity. You mentioned this to factory, but it's a general bad way to think to concentrate. So I imagine that in the future, with innovation, the real improvement arrives not with monopoly, because more intelligence, more people that contribute to taking part give more opportunity to the evolution. So it's more good. I don't know if Italy is angry with the EU a little bit, with the lack of support, especially one month ago when there was a lot of problems in Italy. But hopefully now there's a president of the EU Commission, who's a lady, who's my favorite, who's doing all the digital stuff. I think they should hopefully go a little bit, let's say, crazy in a way of, there's always talk about China. I love China and China is great, but as you're mentioning, maybe the EU should take advantage of, like, flip the problem. There's a lot of migrants, and maybe more and more migrants will come, because there's no way to stop them. Maybe there's some kind of way to give them jobs in Europe to manufacture a bunch of stuff right here. Why not? We can make stuff here, and we can make stuff differently, potentially, and right there in Italy, you can have huge factories. Why not? Just like a big building and start producing something different. I think in general, every place must have the possibility to have what is needed, even because we need to go to the zero kilometer in terms of movement of things. So if things go, we need to go to, in the term of climate change, to decrease the number, decrease the stupid movement of things, because every country can grow up its industry with the help of each other, not because of what happened, that now there is not so much solidarity between countries. So I think the goal of one country that they have many knowledge industries to help other countries to do the same, not to try to sell everything itself. So I imagine in Europe that is more really in help to have industry in the North Africa, industry in the East, industry in every country, industry I mean, not big industry, but in any case, the self capacity to build up what is needed, not to depend for the technology from one country, for the vehicle from another. No, every country should have the capacity to self produce and to help to have the knowledge. So the people need to, so the people is not forced to emigrate. If I want to live in a place because I like, it's good that I am free to, but if I am forced to go because in my place I cannot work, it's not good. So I think there is a change to do in this situation. And here's another question and it's a little bit connected to what I was thinking before Corona, there was, I think there was a big story of just a few, two months ago, two, three months ago, three, four months ago, that somehow, all the Intel processors have kind of like a backdoor that was there all the time. And there's something like half a billion servers and PCs and laptops, they all have pretty much like a huge security issue. And here's a question from Gregan Dach. Is the PowerPC CPU, does it hide some kind of embedded hidden thing like this Intel management engine? Is there something like that in there? I think we don't know until you have the possibility to have an open scale of the CPU. So I cannot say that. Until now, there is there is not any sign about that, but could be that one day when the CPU design will be open, we can put our hand on the fire. Here's another question that's put it up right here from Joe, and he says he wants to do a project, but he's wondering about the Chinese manufacturers to rely on them. Have you thought about working with Chinese production before, or why are you thinking to do everything in Italy, or is it in Spain? It's going to be made in China in the laptop eventually, right? What's your consideration in terms of having a design house in China or something like that? Do you think they have any kind of PowerPC expertise over there too? No. A cube system is a little producer that have already first is a little reality so there is a relationship where we can collaborate directly. Second was already a producer of PowerPC motherboard from the time of Amiga from 10 and more years ago. So there is this expertise. As the project starts from a group of people in Italy at the beginning before starting the project I have checked the real possibility to realize. So for me it was important to have a direct relationship so it was more simple in Italy. By any case I have at the beginning contacted other PowerPC producer but nothing happened. So it was possible with a cube system and so which is the only possible part that we have found. In any case I have I want, I have try every time to continue to be sure to produce in a country where there is a level of work that is with about some rights that are very important. So at this time is in Italy because a cube but in any case I don't like to produce far to produce to produce where all the factory produce because the idea is to make the factory near where I live in my territory to have the experience to continue to make hardware. And as is an open hardware project the same I hope the other can do with territory with its factory so the idea is not to to decentralize. Here's another question from Mike he says PowerPC Ubuntu. So you were talking about Debian, is that the most advanced distribution on PowerPC right now? Debian or how about Ubuntu? We have many of us as volunteers we have G4, G5 machine other than we have Power9, Power8 virtual machine and our our pair of dev kit with our processor. So we have already used Ubuntu but during the years the we have seen that Debian between Ubuntu inside the Debian packaging point web we have seen that with Debian we have a more large number of packages a more solid and continuous care about PowerPC architecture this was our impression of all the people that already installed Ubuntu, Lubuntu and other I don't say that it's the only one option but at the moment we are concentrated in Debian packaging and we have selected between the Debian packaging instead of Ubuntu we see better to follow the more good support of Debian here's another question from Paseo I would love to see Manjaro compatibility what do you think so it's another Linux right it's the R-Clinic something like that okay back to run on PowerPC yeah just that's one guy Paseo said that sorry in any case if it's run on PowerPC thanks to have suggested we will see because in general what happened for example we have tried OpenSUSE that are very collaborative like organization we have tried a little bit even Fedora Ubuntu, Lubuntu recently we have intention to try Voidlinus because we joined in the OpenPower foundation coffee meeting so if you suggest Manjaro we will try so why not the idea what happened thanks to the intelligence of every people like you that suggest we can improve what happened until now and I think it's the key point of value of our way to work together so how far in the future is it how soon do you think you will have it in front of you and how soon can people buy it kind of around I hope to go in a moment of singularity I mean now you can say you can see this curve of donation and of progress that is something that take times I think so I hope that this curve in some moment arrived to a moment where we cannot image now grow up so at the moment if I see continues with the rhythm we have I can say that prototyping can happen before the end of the year but can be that something new happen and so I don't know a butterfly effect happen and I don't know the number of people that joined that push the project grow up in a way that I can imagine and so the time will go more fast so the prototype can imagine for the end of the year so the production later but is only because I see my experience but the future is not already written so it depends on anyone because of course IBM is watching this video do you think they should help put one of their huge processors in a laptop or is it going to be way too much power consumption like one of their huge really like super computer kind of CPU but what I know that as is open eyes and open probably in the future we will see other silicon join and so in case IBM is focused in server can be that someone other will be more focused in other market I don't think is something that in this release of the motherboard we will see I think we have the time between now and the new processor come more good for mobile we have the time to see that happen our notebook so after that the future is open so we will push forward to see other other processors going on but at the moment I think we need to conclude this I think cool and it's been a long time you've been working on it yes it was see you must have faith that there is good people around and I think that there are more people good and with more more capacity than imagine the future is very open we will see cool hopefully please stay safe hopefully all your friends and family are staying healthy in a strange northern Italy situation but everywhere in the world it's kind of strange right now so back for business and this is online right now and the power pc notebook.org and chat with you about the future about that project so sorry it took a little while before we did this video I think we were talking about it for a couple months or more the time is now now is the time to do these online chat shows right now is everybody is at home right yes cool thank you for the question because it's very good this opportunity to have contributions I hope other people suggest other ideas and improve because there is anytime something to learn cool alright future is European tech yeah there is something here in Europe it's going to be big projects in Europe open source Europe is kind of like invented the linux is a European guy right is open source is free and arm is open source but it's kind of like a very small license Europe is good at making stuff that changes the whole world but they don't make so much money that's the problem sometimes the Americans and the Chinese take all the money but maybe we can find a way to get stuff financed anyway we see I think the economy is a consequence of the relationship between humans so if we build up a relationship we can change the economy the world and doing something good alright thanks for the show see you later thanks everybody for watching and everybody try to not catch the corona it's probably not a good idea if you catch the corona so stay safe and all your family and everybody and see you next time bye