 You good you ready? Yeah. All right, cool. All right, so what's going on everyone? We are back with another episode of the after hours podcast today. We have a super special guest This guest is important and really special to me because I've spent so much time talking to him way too much time Especially in the beginning So I just know his story is incredible and it's awesome So, you know, just the same as usual Harry and I have like a mission to do these podcasts and Not necessarily just talk about trading even though it always ends up there But we love talking about the emotional roller coaster that is not only life, but navigating the markets and all that So, you know, without further ado, we kind of get started And I guess it's like the same way to start every single time as I guess Tom, you know What was your life like before trading like take us into life before you do anything about the markets Where were you? What were you doing and kind of take it take it from there? All right, so guys Yeah, you know long story, right? so I basically grew up in Europe and I went to LA for college For like I went to see some how state Northridge So I spent like, you know, five years there You know, just basically the study right and then I Try to kind of stay in in the states and So I kind of apply all the jobs there, you know in LA But at the end, you know, I couldn't get a green card, right? So I had to go back so I moved back, you know to prop and You know started doing some, you know, basically like, you know, just normal jobs like every other person, right? so I've graduated from from finance and Like Economics, you know, to be exact. So I got a job at the, you know, this is like a firm of financing kind of firm Yep. Yeah, what year is this for concepts? What year is this? I Think it was like 2012 2012 2013 So, you know, I apply for a job there and I got, you know, like basically kind of office kind of job So what we're doing back then is we have to cold cold people, right? I mean, you know, this is just the fucking the hardest job that you could imagine Cold calling socks Cold calling people like and and you're asking them for money, right? It's even worse You know, they don't know you and then you I'm like, you know financial product and so basically you trying to get money out of them, you know For them to kind of invest and and all that So it got me, you know, so I stayed there for like two and a half maybe three years and then You know at one night, you know, I kind of came across a website I mean, I was always thinking about doing something for myself, right? You start my own business, you know, because I'm tired of this, you know, full-time job I always wanted to do something, you know, either it's gonna be open a new business or, you know, try something for myself and And and as I was looking online, I said, you know, there's a lot of ways to make money, right? like, you know, either be, you know, outside or like, you know, like online as well and so I was, you know, looking up at Amazon, eBay and all that and Everything takes, you know, some certain money, right? Yeah, so I Went like, you know, I just came across a website. I won't, you know, mention that website here But I think a lot of us kind of, you know, got hooked to him in the beginning, you know His first name start with the teeth, right? so and You know, and That's when, you know, I started to know about trading Yeah, were you married at this point? You were because your son wasn't born, but were you married at this point? I was, you know, with my wife at that time We just like, you know, dating and and and and all that, but after that we got married So, you know, long, long, long story short. I got interested in that, you know Trading and I went over his materials, you know, DVDs all that and yeah, I said, okay, so Because at first, right, you don't know what what's you're gonna, you know It's like all you see is all those lambos, you know, fast money and you're gonna be rich tomorrow, right? And, you know, at that point, I'm always desperate, you know, to make money To have some sort of money, right? Yeah, so I was hooked, you know I got in apply for, you know, monthly and all that, you know, I Put in, you know, my like I had some somebody back then on savings. So I put that all in And I think within like one or two months I blew it So I went back to my job and then I sold some new materials coming in, okay So maybe this time is the right one, right? I mean last time, you know, I trying to do that and this and that didn't work Did you feel like Like, did you feel like having to go back to work was like Hell, like was it like hard for you to like get into trading, see trading and then go back to your like cold-calling job because like I know for me like Even now as like a profitable trader going to my normal job sometimes it's tough And that's like something I know like I can do both, but I can't imagine like trying to do it Struggling and like losing money and then be like shit I gotta go back to to life like and see like was that hard like I don't even know like what did that feel like in that Bro, it feels like shit. It's like shit. I'm telling you, but what else do I have left, right? I mean, I have to pay bills. I have to survive in a way. Yeah, if I couldn't get a job I have to go to McDonald's maybe, you know, yeah, right. That's it. Yeah, that's the end of story. I mean Either way you have to survive somehow, right? Yeah, you have to find something that you can, you know, make money Like, you know month like our money, you know, and you can basically pay your bills and I mean The hardest part I think for me that that point was like all the money, right? I've been saving for that I think for like one for the last like a year on that year because I was out of college I didn't have much money anyway, right? So I saved, you know, a few grand So that I could maybe buy a car or just something like that But I blew that old up, you know, went back to my job and, you know, feel sucks, bro I mean, it's really tough But then, you know, I I saw like, you know, I always believe like not like, you know, I of course I do believe in myself, right? But I see the you know, the real potential in this job Right. Yeah. So Let me I think let me break it to this way. So I'm a immigrant, right? You know, we went to to Europe. So I try to stay in in the state. You know, I couldn't have to go back. And as you know, Europe, you know, as especially in Czech Republic, it's really a conservative country. Right. I mean, if they have to decide between, you know, an Asian guy and a white guy, right? With the same degree of college, they're going to choose him. Like, no, like it just you have to be something or you have to have something different from that guy or that girl, right? So what made you live there? Was it just opportunity? Because being there is better opportunity than where you were? My mom and dad, they like, I think it's the same story as Bao. Yeah. Oh, because of that Vietnam war and we have to kind of hear. So he went to Germany and all France and all that. And then he moved back to Prague. But, you know, for a story short, for you to be able to become successful, right? Or to have any like, you know, higher position in Europe, it's really hard. You have to be really good. You have to be absolutely. You have to be even better than white people, right? Yeah. I'm not being racist, but, you know, that's, that's, you know, cold blooded truth. That's all there is. I mean, if I have the same college degree as him, they're going to hire him, right? No matter what, I have to have something special. So that's where, you know, I like the most about trading, you know, because based on my, you know, circumstances, right? Like I don't have, you know, I don't give a fuck, you know, or nobody cares about me. Right? Yeah. I can do whatever I want in trading. I can trade with a million dollar account. Nobody knows shit. Right? I can kind of million, you know, by just sitting here. I don't have to interact with anyone. I don't have like, I don't need the, you know, a Harvard degree. Right? I don't need any connections, you know, and all that, you know, that's how you can succeed in life, right? Yeah. But as an immigrant, it's really hard to have that, unless you're looking for a rich family or whatever. Yeah. Like, you know, out there in society, you have to have money first, you know, and then connections and then education and all that combined all together for you to succeed, right? And for me, that's impossible. So how can I be able to make a lot of money? Right? Yeah. Either winning a lottery or do something like gambling, right? Yeah. That's got me hooked. The idea itself, it got me hooked the most. Yeah. And I agree, because like, I mean, if you if you even look around in today's society, like, I mean, you can either like start a business similar to James, go into real estate, trade, and like, that's really about it. I mean, there's like some online business dropshipping that it kind of falls in that category. But like, this is one of the only things where like, you really just need your mind and you need some work ethic and you need to be able to kind of study. And, you know, as long as you can like have self discipline and be consistent every day, like you can really exponentially grow your account. Exactly. And, you know, that's why like kind of in today's society, like a lot of people say, like even I say it myself, like, I don't know if the market's going to be around in 10 or 20 years or, you know, wherever, like it's just a means to an end. You know, everyone's like, oh, yeah, you long these stocks. But at the end of the day, I'm taking my money from point A to point B. I'm shutting my computer down and leaving for the day. And that's exactly the job. And that's exactly because, you know, if the market's going to be around today, tomorrow, the next day, but we're just going to show up every single morning and just bank, you know. And that's that's exactly kind of my mindset towards it. I think people forget for people forget to like trading. It's like it's like it's the only job where you can create as much wealth as you want, and you can also lose everything you have. So it's like it's it's it's such a emotional job to have every day until you can kind of I don't think you ever master your emotions. But when you get there, I'd say Alex is probably as close as you could get to mastering the emotions and like, but, you know, it's just it's so fucking hard. So like, so Tom, like when you were at that stage, like given everything, like, did you have pressure on yourself? Like, did your family have like, not to be personal, I guess, but like, did you not ask if you came from money, but like, you know, did you have any back and did you have a fallback of like security? Or is it more just like pressure on yourself, either make it in trading or like you're fucking done? Bro, I mean, you know, at that point, like, luckily, you know, like this, I've kind of experienced almost like everything. Okay, so I blew up the account, you know, I went to my mom, I borrowed somebody from her, I went to my dad or somebody from there, went to my uncle, borrow somebody from him. That's why, you know, all those small accounts, right? That's why it adds up to that fucking 30 or whatever, 35. Yeah, no. But the point is why I didn't give up because, okay, if you want to start a business, why with few K, what are the odds that you're going to be successful with that? So the odds are really minimal, right? But we're trading. Yes, it's really hard, but the odds are still better. If you, let's say you open a business for three grand, you're going to fail, no, like, you know, like, not 100%, but 99.9%. Right. If you start with eBay, Amazon with three K, four K, you're going to fail too. Yeah. So, so we trading, at least I know if I work hard, right, I could get there. Yeah. But that, that is a chance, you know, the office is still better than putting money in something else, maybe trembling or something, but, you know, talking about that. So, so after all the boring money and all that, it gets to the point, you know, that I think that was my last account and I'm done, you know, I blew up, I blew that one up as well. Are you still in the other room at this point or are you by yourself? I was, you know, after that, I was like, married already. And because, you know, like, I think for like three or almost like three or four years, you know, all that account and blew it up for like three or four years straight, right? Just like, all right, just put in some money, I take, you know, three or four months off and then put again, again, again and over and over again. What type of strategies were you using? Was it like more longing, more shorting, OTC? Shorting only at that time, because, you know, got me hooked with that idea of small companies, they're going to crack, right? You know, so we just need to find, you know, which stuff and then they're all going to come down anyway. That's what, yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking. But, you know, with, you know, with another, you know, good timing and all that, that's why you blow up the account, right? Yeah, exactly. And also discipline, you know, I was treating like, you know, from the market open till close, every single day. Like, I could trade anything I want. I mean, you know, just anything that moves. I mean, that's funny. Yeah. And also with that and, you know, a lot of money spending on those chat rooms, right? And you bought a scanner, you bought something, you know, all that extra kind of tools, you know, books, DVDs and all that for you to learn, but I didn't learn shit. Was it, was your wife, was your wife, because you said, we're at this point in time, you're at your last account that you funded. Was your wife ever like, Tom, fucking stop, like stop fucking trading or the whole time? Was she kind of like, do your thing? Like, you know what you're doing? Um, or like, I guess have that work out. Like, cause that's a, that's a tough dynamic. I feel like, because I know when I talk to my girlfriend about it, I feel like she's dumb as shit because like, I, she doesn't understand. Like I could tell her, yeah, I lost, you know, a thousand dollars today, which is just like a day's work or whatever. And she's just like, what the, what the fuck? Like, she's like, lost. She's so scared. She's like, are you okay? Like, what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, Jesus. I mean, actually, I was talking to her about trading only like once or twice and after that, I'm done, you know, and like every time she showed me, like, you know, opening up, like, turning on a computer and it said, you know, I'm just, you know, observing, right? So I can learn more, but that, in fact, I was borrowing somebody from someone, but I couldn't, you know, send the fact that telling her about it, because she told me, okay, so you blew up, like, you know, several accounts now. Why are you still trying something? Yeah, why, why are you still trying, like, you know, to pursue something that is not working, right? Yeah, but I said, you know, okay, I'm going to stop. All right, I'm going to go back to my full time job. So that time I was like, you know, going back to work and do all that and that. And, and it gets to the point that, you know, I blew up my last account. So I'm done. Yeah, I couldn't borrow any money. So I had to work, you know, and I think after that, I got saved, like around like a thousand or something. Yeah, after like, you know, two months, after all the bills and all that, right? Because I was making like 1500 a month like that. Yeah, and I had to kind of put a grant away for my family, right? Basically paying the bills and, you know, good thing is that here, everything is cheap. So so I got saved, you know, a thousand bucks. And right after that point, I think M.I.C. Open, you know, M.I.C., like around August, right? Yeah, August. And when I heard that from Bao, because, you know, like this, Bao, I mean, you know, all those years, right? I was in the chat room, you know, all different chat rooms and, and I knew Bao, like, not personally, but I knew him from Twitter. Yeah. And I was following him, you know, I saw, oh man, he's Vietnamese, man, he's real successful, whether I was showing him, you know, playing golf and all that shit. And I thought, you know, I must have make some really, you know, good money, right? You know, all the cars and all that. So and I said, man, this guy is really good. Let me dig in a little bit deeper. So I try to kind of dig in following him on Twitter. I saw like every single tweet from him. All the trading fish, I went through everything. Okay. And, you know, something inside of me saying that, oh man, this guy is real. Okay. The one thing is, you know, all those different chat rooms, you know, I can feel some sort of, you know, fake or like, you know, just something from them I don't like, right? But from Bao, I can sense, you know, like the truth, you know, from him, the personality he is, but even though I never met him, right? And ever even talk to him. But I, you know, I kind of felt something, maybe also because he's Vietnamese or Asian, maybe just because of that. But the way, you know, he kind of talked all the way he tweeted, all those that can, like, you know, that and I kind of feel, you know, I close to him and I said, yeah, this guy really know about trading. He knows about trading. And right at that point, he was saying something to Alex, right? That they're going to open a chat room. And I said, man, OK, so my legend, you know, my kind of, yeah. So my guy, right, the one I'm look up to the most, he's opening a chat room, right? So this is, I mean, at that point, I was like, you know, I'm, I'm done with trading, bro. I'm done. Yeah. After all that, you know, I'm done, basically I'm done. And I hope, you know, I don't even want to say that amount anymore. I mean, thousand grand. I mean, you just don't do anything, right? I mean, I traded with, you know, seven, eight thousand, ten thousand, four thousand blew up anyway. So grand would not make a difference. So right after that, I decided, OK, so I'm going to split, you know, two months by my C and then seven hundred to my, you know, that account. Yeah. And after that, you know, I joined my C and all that. So the rest is history kind of thing. Yeah, that's that's the turning point for me. Yeah, it's crazy. It's funny you say that about Bow because I feel like a bow and I'm sure Harry agrees. I mean, he he makes you feel like even if he's tweeting or if he's just messaging, like you almost feel like he's just talking to you. Like something about bow makes you feel like this dude just gives a shit about you, about whoever's receiving the message. And I think that's such a rare quality in people that like people it's such an under like it's not even expressed enough how much bow kind of makes you feel like there's like hope to do this. It's weird. I don't know how to explain it, but I don't know. Harry, you know, yeah, for me, one thing is I feel like he keeping it real. Yeah. You don't have to use like whatever fancy words and all that. Yeah. I mean, this is the reality and because I have experienced that trading period, right? So that's why I understood kind of more his treats. And it's kind of, you know, clicking my head, man, this guy is saying exactly the same thing that I experienced. Yeah. But nobody told me that before, right? Yeah. That's why that's the thing kept me going. And also, like kind of believing him even though, you know, I have never talked to that guy and I never saw him. So yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. He's genuine, I think. And he's not just like, you know, like it was before he was on Twitter, you know, he was on Twitter for so long, like not selling anything. Just the DMs giving genuine advice, making a killing while he's frigging doing it. Like basically said, I'm never going to open up a chat room. You know, I don't need the money. I don't need this. I don't need that. But then I think he was like, he kind of realized that, like all the other chat rooms kind of at the moment that I see, like other than maybe maybe a couple are just like, you know, either giving some type of alerts or pumping or, I mean, even now, like you, you, how much change, you know, you can just see now, like, well, I mean, before you couldn't even find a chart from him. OK, not talking about fucking entries and exits and fucking fields. You didn't push it. And now people are all getting it for free and they don't appreciate it. I mean, what the fuck, man? You know, sitting every day waiting for him to post something. But no, I was waiting for like a month or two to have some sort of, you know, ideas of what he's doing, you know, was he shorting and all that. And now they've been getting for free. And that just I say I'm buying like people don't even members in M.I.C. don't appreciate some of it sometimes because I remember back then like waiting for Bauer, Alex or someone to post what they traded, how much they made for inspiration and also like a sort of guidance of like, holy shit, this is what they did. And I remember like, like I would have done anything for a watch list for any insight from any of these guys. And like to get it now, even at the monthly costs, it's like I would pay more. Like I just like think back on my early days, like if they caught me when I first started out, I would have paid more, which is crazy. But like, I would have invested in that. It's like, it's like now it's like, you know, bow commenting almost every single day. Alex doing a watch list, you know, I think it's just the fact that like the members that got so used to the idea to the fact that they have all those information, right? But when you got a lot of it and you like, you know, it makes you don't appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, less is more sometimes, right? And maybe fucking cut it for a week and then you see what happens out of that, right? You're dying of fucking for comment. Of course. To me, it's like we have two seven figure traders, a guy who made a million dollars a day with these people offering their help and their teaching, even even paid. It's like that cost is nothing compared to what you're getting. That's like to me, like getting basketball lessons from Michael Jordan. And fucking the bulls like that's like, it's like you can't even fathom how great that is. And like, and like, I think it shows like, look at the mods like most of the mods were members since early on are like, you know, look at how far they've come, look how far everyone's come just from being in the room and putting in that kind of work for that. It's crazy. I mean, like Tom, I mean, we'll get more into it, I guess, but like, I remember like when we first started trading together, it was like, you know, we talked about shit, like we were just so fucking confused on certain things. And like, we just talk about it and get through it and like looking back on those times being like, wow, like shit's changed so much. Like it's you just work harder, you put in the work and your life changes. And like, you know, I know I know Tom, like you're kind of famous for that, for like the story would like Uber and stuff like that. How you were like Ubering and all that. And can you kind of dive into that because at this because you have to be close to the timeline at this point, right? Because you just write your last account. And I want to touch on that because that's like one of my favorite stories you have. So if you have anything about that on that one, I mean, it's pretty, I mean, it's pretty fucked up, you know, when I think about it back then. I mean, you know, I was saving for that grand, right? Yeah. And I asked that fucking boss at me. Can you imagine that? I fucking, you know, saving that money for trading. I was thinking, OK, let me kind of work this job, which is a little bit maybe longer, maybe six, six months or a year. So I can, you know, save up some more and put it in more. But then, you know, after that, he fucking sacked me. And I think at that point, I couldn't have it. I contacted Bao. And I said, I mean, bro, I mean, I really wanted to be in M.I.C. I really wanted to be, you know, to continue and all that. But I just can't afford it, bro. I mean, and also, you know, with my priority now to be able to feed my family, right? That's the most important thing. I mean, you know, reality hits. I mean, even though I want to trade, but, you know, with $700 account, I'm not going to go anywhere with that, right? Yeah. If I push it, if I, you know, force myself, I want to blow up, right? And then, you know, I'm broke after that. Yeah, I can't trade with pressure, so. Yeah. So I had to find a new job, you know, right after that. But I couldn't get hired and everything. And I said, you know, fuck it. I have car here. So what? I'm going to drive Uber. Yeah. And I was looking for, you know, a kind of time frame, which one, like which hours, you know, can make the most. So usually in the morning, you know, six, seven a.m. And at that time, you know, market, it's, I think market opens here at 3.30, right? 3.30 p.m. Yeah. You got a sign at this point, right? You had your son now? Yeah. So I, you know, like my, my, my, my son is here at that point, Anna. So basically I had to feed my family, right? And I couldn't focus on trading. And I have to find something else. No matter what, right? You know, even though I'm really good at trading, even though, you know, I could, you know, make money from trading, but with 700 bucks, you know, you can do shit. Yeah. You know, you can do it anyway, right? No matter how, how good you are, it's going to take time. Let's say you want to be there. You're either trading so small, yeah, there's no money or yeah, you're going to blow up. Let's say, you know, if you experienced like Bowen, but we started with 700 bucks, it's going to take him a few years to get to the next level, right? Yeah, of course, of course. I kind of realized that and I said, okay, let me find a job. So I started Uber and also the time is like, what interests me the most is that I can trade from 3.00 p.m. You know, I can drive some, you know, in the morning, when I'm done with trading, I can trade, and you know, I can go, you know, at night as well. Usually around midnight is good, you know, pay as well. So- So are you working like 12 hours a day, like 12 to 15 hours a day at this point, like? I would say like, I work like almost like full day, except when I come back for trading. Yeah, yeah. So when, yeah, I have to come back around like 1.00 p.m. or 2.00, just to prepare myself in the market. So maybe one or two hours and then trade for one hour. So it was like three or four hours, right? And then after that, I'm just driving Uber. That's it. But, you know, it's doable, right? Yeah. And that's the only thing I like about it is because I don't have to go to 95. If I'm going to 95, right, I can trade, right? And with that, okay? So the money might not be as good as normal job, but I still could fit my family with that, with, you know, that I could also do trading, you know, at the same time. So that's, you know, it went well for me, even though, you know, the money is not that good. But all I need at that point was, I don't have to worry about monthly payment. I don't have to worry about, you know, putting food on the table, and that takes the pressure off. Right? I mean, of course there is some pressure, right? And 700 bucks. But, you know, I don't have to worry about that. Or now, you know, I can only worry about focus on that trading to grow the account. I have to be careful because, you know, if I blow up, it's going to take me maybe six months or a year driving Uber to save another grant, right? Or maybe, you know, more than that. So, yeah, so that was like really tough, bro. But then, you know, the consistency came and it just become much more easier. When you get to that two, three thousand, you know, four thousand, five thousand, it, you know, it gets so much easier. And then you make, let's say, you know, you make, you know, 100 bucks a day. But imagine here, like I'm driving all day, right? To be able to make that 100 bucks. Yeah. I'm not talking about, you know, service to my car, changing oil and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just net. Yeah. So, you know, with all that, I could make maybe like 50 bucks only. You know, deduct it from all the gas and all that. But making here 100 bucks a day, that's a fucking life changing for me. And I said, okay, now we just need to stick with it. Now we just need to keep it. Yeah. See, hearing this, hearing this, this is the alpha because it's like, I get so many DMs, people saying, I don't have time to watch videos. I don't have time to do this or trade this. It's like, hearing this just reminds me that like, if you want it bad enough, like you'll make it fucking happen. Exactly. Yeah, you have to drive fucking Uber, if you have to fucking, I don't know, find a job that you hate to fund an account or pay you there. We all grinded hard. Like, hard, hard, bro, I mean. I mean, discipline, you know, is something that you have to do what needs to be done, right? Yeah. Without even, you know, wanting to do it. Yeah. What other choices do I have, right? I have to do it. Otherwise, you know, I'm fucked. Either way, I mean, you know, if you don't want to do it, you're going to be broke, right? So go back and fucking your miserable life, you know, do whatever you want. But if you don't want it bad enough, you're not going to succeed. No, you know, no doubt about it. Trading's the one job where like you can, it's tough because you can put a billion hours into it and also not get anywhere. But if you really put your head down and focus on the right shit and like you like hustle and like grind, like Harry said, I think every mod in this room has grinded to a point to get to even where they are now. And it's like, you know, anyone who comes into this thinking they're just going to pick it up fast. It's like, or, you know, or they don't need to watch videos or education or be in front of the screen. That it's not going to fucking happen, right? Bro, look at Bao, right? He mortgage his house to 30K. He basically hit the rock bottom, right? But that's, I think that's one thing it's missing from the members here. A lot of members here, I think they still have something, you know, outside of trading. They still have something they could rely on. So that's why they've been fucking around. I mean, you know, I blew up this account, you know, I can find another new one. Oh, you know, if I lose this, I'm going to be fine. But if I imagine if it's your last account and your family is depending on it, you're going to be fucking disciplined. I'm telling you, you're going to be fucking disciplined. Yeah, it's funny you say that. Dude, like that's for me. Like what changed the corner for me was like, because no, like I'm not someone like, I never had the rock bottom phase of trading because I was always, I had the business, right? I was a little bit younger when I started. I had the business and, but what did it for me, because it's funny you said that because everyone always asked what the turning point was. And it wasn't until recently I realized I wanted to be able to provide for my sister and my family going forward and give them what they gave me. And when you have a reason like that or like whatever it may be to put food on the table, whatever, that's when discipline becomes almost easy. It becomes like, you know, you have to fucking do it. If you don't, you're not going to achieve this goal. Yeah, I mean, it's just all about mindset, I think that's all. And it's just how bad you really want it. If you want it bad enough, you're going to be able to do it. If not, it works. And it also took you a while to kind of learn the ropes, you know, it wasn't, you know, necessarily overnight, but I mean, you know, a lot of people are here for like, I don't know, two or three months, they see a bit of consistency and then maybe, you know, they don't really follow the risk management or there's a discipline issue, stuff like that. They kind of go back to the beginning and then they're like, oh, well, I quit. But it's like every single pullback, you know, if you're in an uptrend, you're going to have pullbacks, right? And you're always going to have some little tiny setback, whether you over-traded on a day or whether you were really green and lost some things. But, you know, it's just like, you just need to keep moving forward. And I think that's the point that we're all trying to make is that for all three of us, I know that I've had setbacks, like people have, you know, witnessed me having setbacks, people have witnessed, you know, Tom, whether it was the market changed or like James as well, whether James maybe got squeezed or I got dumped on or whatever, but we just kept going, you know, we kept showing up every single day. I think that's important. It really is, it's just showing up, dude. Just showing up to the fucking job every day. Like, this is why I rant about this is like, if you just show up, like it, trading is one of those weird things. And I always revert back to like Jesse Livermore, if anyone's read the Reminiscent of a Slog Operator, the dude has blown up more times than fucking anyone, right? But he still just came, he fucking flushed his ass, saved money, do it again, do it again. And it's like, as tough as that is sometimes, it's like, once you get into this job, it's hard to walk away from it. If you understand it at all. And when you know that there's this endless possibility, so it's like, just show the fuck up, you know, do your best. Like you see guys like Bow and Alex stick to discipline over and over, you know it's possible. This isn't like, believe bullshit. It's like, you see Harry doing the same shit every day, Tom doing the same shit. And I remember, I remember so vividly when Tom started becoming consistent, because I think we were at very similar points in trading, but like, I remember when you were on that like 30 day win streak, right? Or something crazy like that, like it was some crazy shit every day. It'd be like 30 days green, fucking 40 days green. Like I remember thinking like, holy fuck this guy is really doing it. And it's crazy. Like and Tom, like how did you even, I guess, I hate to bring it back, but how did you even get to that point from like, when you kind of had that Uber and you got your account and you've had some money to 40 days fucking green? Or what got you there? What was the strategy type of thing? Strategy, like what changed it for you? Maybe it's funny, you know, to say it, but because we're in MIC, right? But basically that was the missing piece for me. And, you know, basically watching the videos, it kind of blew my mind. I mean, of course I was trading before, right? And watching the new material, I mean, it just makes more sense to me. And I knew what I was looking for, shorting or longing, yes. But I didn't understand the concept of it. And I think the most important fact is when Bao talking about risk management, when MIC talks about risk management, and that's really kind of clicked for me. Yeah. And when he said, you know, making money is not a problem, but the problem is keeping it. And that's just blew my mind and say, oh man, that's, that's all right. You know, I don't have problems making a few hundred bucks in there, but then I ended up, you know, giving back all. You're pissing away, yep. But once you grabbed that code, you know, and that code was provided by MIC, right? And then it's just, you know, kind of blew it up from there. It's just like rolling, rolling. And then, you know, when, like, I think the major part here was like the daily match. Yep. Right? And I was, you know, I think I was pretty lucky at that point, you know, when I joined MIC and it was like with 700 bucks, 700 bucks I was be able to grow it to 203K, you know, pretty fast. I think in the first two weeks, and it didn't happen, you know, luckily that time the market was good. It was like in October. And well, that two weeks when I joined MIC, I went straight win, you know, straight green posting on my Twitter as well. You guys want to see it. But it's like 100 bucks, 200 bucks, 300 bucks. So it hats off. And then after two weeks, okay, now I have fucking 203K account, I can raise a little bit more, right? 100 bucks to me, that's fucking pretty big. I mean, to you guys in the US, my, you know, small, but for me, 100 bucks is like, you know, worth like at least two days of driving Uber. That's huge. Crazy long, yeah, it's amazing. And the moment you realize that, okay, so let me set my daily max to fucking 100 bucks so I can, you know, make it back next day, next day after that. But, you know, still right after that, I had some setback as well, you know, I've been green and then, you know, I blew up like, not like blew up, but, you know, I get back all for take all those, you know, one, two weeks at once. I mean, it happens, right? Yeah. And the more you, you, you lost, the more you realize what needs to be done after that. And so the, all the risk management came and after that, you know, it's just like, that's it. The moment I can control my loss, you know, that's when I craft the code. I mean, you've just been growing since. Yeah. The key thing here is not about taking a loss. It's about, you know, when, when you hit some certain stop loss, right? When you hit a max weight loss a day, being able to walk away from that, that's the huge, you know, I think that's, that's the most important fact because before I was like losing, right? So, all right. So I hit my max loss, 100 bucks, 200 bucks, what I'm going to do, I'm going to sit back and fight. I'm going to revenge trading. The next thing I know of fucking loss, you know, two or three times, now I'm fucking frustrated. Now I'm going to load the boat because, you know, 200 shares, you know, 300 shares is not going to do shit. But I lost more than that. I need to size up to make that back. And I think that's the key, you know, thing when you realize that and being able to walk away from that. And that's basically, that was my code back then. Yeah. Now, at your stage where you're at now, are your, is your family and your wife, everyone, are they fully supportive of like trading, like knowing that now you make money, now that it's like a real job and you treat it like a job? Do they, are they 100% supportive of that? Oh yes, of course, no doubt about it. Fucking bought my house and I'm in an apartment. Of course, they're gonna support me. If not, I'm gonna fucking throw them away. But, you know, I kind of, I think that was the main, you know, that's something I'm really proud of myself and it's not about the money, right? It's not about, I'm proud of it because I've proved to, you know, to those people that they are wrong. Yeah. And that's what I'm proud of the most. And they said, fucking, you know, you thought it was gambling, right? Look at this, okay? Okay. And all those people, they, I think there's not a one single person trusted me like that. Not a single one, even my wife. It's crazy, right? What can you do? I mean, the reality is that I blew up several accounts. Nobody would have believed that anyway, right? Yeah, yeah. It's hard to ask for, you know, their trust after that. I mean, you know, maybe after once, twice, three times, you know, maybe it's a mistake. But the third time, the fourth time, she's not a fucking mistake anymore. It's a choice, right? Yeah. And, you know, after that, I kind of prove that, you know, to them. And it makes me really happy. I love that. I know Harry had a similar thing too, right? Like the proven people, like that's not gambling. That it's actually just making, it's a job that it's like anything else. Like if you work really hard at it, it's you're not throwing your money at a fucking dartboard, you're trading. Yeah, it's so funny when you're, you know, you're studying, you're grinding, you notice that like maybe some of your friends or some people aren't there as much or even your family treats you like a little bit different. Then once you start making it, it's like, oh, we were supporting you the whole time. We knew you were gonna be rich. I was your rock. Oh my God, I love that. And like still some family members will always ask me, what's your five year plan or what's your whatever plan? It's like, I'm just banking every day. And, you know, I mean, it kind of sounds douchebag when you're like, I'm banking every day. I'm making money every day. And, you know, do you necessarily need a plan to year out? I mean, what happens if this like crazy transaction tax gets passed by the plan in the States? Like there's gonna be no more fucking market if that happens. So I mean, you know, you just gotta take it day by day. It's a means to an end for me. I mean, if trading ceased, I have enough money saved that I could probably go into real estate or go into a different venture. But, you know, we all have a common theme where it's like every single day we're just showing up, we're trading, we're sticking to the process, you know, line to line. And that's really about it. And, you know, of course, in weekend mentoring as well, we're always there, you know. Tom as well, Tom's posting the friggin' links, copying every single day. Tom's a video guru. Tom just fucking drops that link. Here we go, here's six videos. But I mean, you know, it's really just the, you know, the work ethic and really the sacrifice that kind of brought us to where we all are. So I mean, if there's anything that anyone takes away from this, it's that, you know, when you listen to Tom, it's, you know, it's hard. It's like the first account, the second account, the third account, the fourth account, and everyone's like, oh, Tom, you're an idiot. But, you know, once you make that all back, you know, like the accounts that I blew up early on, like super early on in my trading career, you know, I could make that now daily. That's what's crazy, is that like that little investment, it's like, I'm making that daily now. So, if that's- I think about that all the time, right? Harry, that actually just triggers something like- You know, like what's 700 bucks? Like a small stop out now? I mean- Yeah, seriously, it's a 10 cent stop, right? It's like, you think about, you think about investing, right? Like this is a really good way to fucking like, like talk about, like think about it, is like when I invested in my business, I mean, I have no problem talking about it. Like it cost me like a hundred grand to get the first shop going. Like between like, you know, the build out and advertising, everything dude. Everything, it cost me a fuck ton of money. All the money I had saved up at that point. And then some. So, when you think about trading, it's like, dude, you fucking blow up two accounts, three accounts, 10 accounts, even a thousand dollars each. It's like, okay, you invested 10 grand, but for the opportunity to make a lifetime of money. I mean, like 10 grit, I've seen fucking people make, you know, I've seen guys, both of you make that in a day, right? Like, I mean, that's the reality. So all that money you invested, every time you fucking had to refill that account, it's like, it's like that's your investment. Like, did you expect to get into trading without almost losing is the wrong idea. The idea is that you're investing, and that's why MIC exists, and that's why I think that MIC is so important to people is that you're investing in your education. So what's $200 a month? What's $2,000 a year for the opportunity to make fucking $2,000 a day? Yeah. Right? And I mean, also, if you go to university, I mean, university's not cheap, right? Yeah. Like this is number one way cheaper than university. If you do it right. I mean, I'm not saying take out $100,000 alone and then just start trading 4,000 or 5,000 share positions. But I mean, if you compare like the amount of money I put into trading when I first started versus one year of university that I paid, it's I paid way more money for that first year university than I did for all the accounts, for all the blowups, the education, the everything. I mean, you can't really put a price on time. Bye. Oh, no. It's just something that you cannot put, you know, money on, right? I mean, for MIC and especially borrowing knowledge, I was at that time and those are the only two persons that trust them, right? They have like, they believe in me. And that, you know, that sells something. Yeah. And sometimes all you need is just for someone to trust you, right? For you to kind of do it. And I think, you know, MIC, that was the breaking kind of point for me. And, you know, I think without it, I don't think I could, you know, get here. And so basically, Val and Alex kind of changed my life in a way. And so that's why I said to Val many times, bro, I mean, you know, you've done so much for me and what can I do for you, right? What can I do to help? And all he said was like, okay, try to be successful, right? Try to be good at it. And that's how you're gonna pay me back. And, you know, that works, right? I mean, fucking shocked me. And I said, fuck it, okay? I'm gonna fucking help as many people as I can because if I can pay, you know, forward, if I can pay it back, I have to pay it forward. So that's why, you know, trying so hard to help the members, not because, you know, of the money or anything, you know, we don't get shit here, right? But because we wanted to, I believe in karma, you know, you know, one, it takes one, it doesn't take one, each one takes one, right? And someone's, you know, been helping you just out of, you know, nowhere, and Alex, you know, helping me with MIT, all that, they believe in me, but, you know, compared to my family, right? Nobody gives a shit about me. What the fuck? I know, it's a weird, it's a weird family dynamic that we have actually in the group that it's just like, it's like trading such like, it's a lonely job, but it's a hard, it's a job that only traders understand, I think, and the fact that you have people here to kind of have a shoulder to lean on and like actually believe in you and make you feel like that without ever meeting them is the craziest thing in the world, but that's the reality. And sometimes, you know, when you think about it, a lot of members right now, they might only need us to tell them that we believe in them, right? Yeah, it's crazy. For them to have an extra push, you know, in their one journey or whatever. And that's all it takes. Sometimes it's just, you know, a one word, you know, I believe in you, you know, good job, you know, keep it up and it kind of pushed them. It kind of motivates them, you know, working harder. Yeah. And that's basically the purpose of life anyway, right? That's why I kind of changed my Twitter to the way it was because my Twitter used to be all the time where, you know, my Twitter would just be like strategy or like chart or like whatever. Yeah, I mean too, mind you. And no one, I mean, people would like listen to it, but like, I mean, the problem I found on Twitter is that there wasn't a lot of like realness. Like there's a couple of people for sure, but there wasn't a lot of people saying that no one, like I find on Twitter and like on a lot of stuff like that, like once people make it, they like to just forget about the journey, the sacrifice, the struggle. And I think that comes back to the idea of why me and James did this in the first place. But like, I mean, you never hear a lot of professional traders talk about like, oh, I blew up this many accounts. Oh, this was a struggle. Oh, I had this, you know, conflict with my family. Oh, I had this, I had that. Like you don't really hear a lot of that. And maybe as these podcasts and as these stories start to pop up, people will kind of jump on the trend and start talking about it. But that was kind of stuff that I saw like a year ago, whatever, it's all like, oh, here's my chart. Here's my entry and exit that actually mean nothing. I mean, as much as I can show a lot of people a chart as to why I went long here, you know, they're not going to be inside my head, you know? As much as I try and, you know, it just takes, you know, the consistent work and the consistent, you know, just course in the time, you know? Yeah, I'm telling you, bro. Yeah, I'm telling you, bro. I mean, MIC, we have like everything. Like, I mean, the masks, three of us here, it's not because we do it because we love it. We love helping people who want, you know, to be able to change, you know, people's lives, right? That's exactly how Bob and Alex changed my life, you know, changed your life and also Harry's. I mean, but sometimes, you know, a lot of people, they don't appreciate it and that's their fault, right? Of course. There's not much, you know, you can do about it. You know, you cannot please everyone, right? Yeah, I mean, yeah. Well, we have a ton more members compared to the days that, like, Nico was here. Yeah, of course, you know, it was Nico. But, you know, for me, the purpose in life for me is, you know, to be able to help someone, okay? And I might not need it in the future, but I might need it. Who knows, right? My son might need it. Of course. My son, you know, when he grows up and someone else will help him. Who knows, right? Yeah. That's, you know, basically the purpose of, like, my purpose of life, of living. And, you know, I try to kind of make a difference. And I love that. I mean, how many of you guys have gotten the message? Oh, yeah, if you're ever in my area, like, come down for a drink or if you're ever here. I mean. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna do a meet up here. Thou could go wherever. You could drive around the states and just write on Twitter or write an MIC. Hey, bro, I'm in Florida. Like, who's up for a drink in this town? I'm sure like, 50 people would just drive there and be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know? Like, what's up? They had an impromptu fucking Miami meet up and like, 50 people showed up. I mean, it's like, it's awesome, right? Yeah, I mean, it's insane, yeah. Yeah, it's wild. But, but as we're, I mean, we are coming up on the hour mark, which is what we're trying to keep. And, but I guess to end it, we could kind of wrap it up with like, Tom, what do you, what's the best piece of advice you would give a new trader right now that you wish you could talk to yourself again when you first started? What would it be? The process, right? I mean, it sounds really simple, but, you know, it's gonna get you to where you want it. Again, the process, everyone is different. You have a different process. I have a different process, but you have to find something, you know, working for you. So it's for you, right? All to, I mean, we're not gonna go over, you know, the parents and all that. We have the, you know, the videos for that. But once you grasp that part, right? Once you found something that's been working for you, you know, try to stick with that, right? I mean, a lot, I mean, the 90% of the traders, why are they still losing is because they still don't know what they're looking for every day, right? And that's why they trade on the fly. That's why they're revenge trading because, you know, you don't have an edge, right? You don't know exactly what you're looking for from the market. Yeah, I mean, the market is telling you, the market is giving you the signal, but you are still confusing with that, right? I mean, same thing with playing a blackjack. You know, if you know that you have 19 and 20 hands, you're gonna bet on those, right? The odds are you're gonna be more like, you know, succeed on that. Instead of right now, all you see is, you know, 14, 15, 19, 17, all that. And you don't know which one to choose. And when you, like, same thing with open business, like you, James, I mean, once you found the product, you're gonna stick to that product, right? And all the researching, all that, all that shit before, you know, that's the beginning, right? It takes time to find a good product, but once you've found it, stick with it. Yeah. And stick with that. Acute with risk management, you're gonna be fine. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Like, I mean, like, me and Tom don't have the same style. Me and James don't have the same style, you know? Exactly. But we're all able to make money, and it's so crazy because if you look at the stocks that I traded today, like, I know that, I know James wasn't trading or, I didn't, I wasn't, I was like kind of in and out, but like, I can guarantee you that, you know, Tom wasn't trading the stocks that I was in when I was long. And when Tom was short, I was not trying to go long where Tom was short. And that's because we have our own process. And, you know, for Tom, it's going to be shorting into a resistance or shorting into POPs or waiting for the stock to come down and then shorting abouts, you know? There's all those different things. But I understand, you know, just as much as I understand what Tom's doing, you know, Tom understands what I'm doing as well. And I think that's why we can all get along because Tom isn't going short at the bottoms into the weakness, right? Tom's waiting for the POP. And, you know, that's why I think, you know, with me, I've been able to kind of meet a lot of people. And if I ever wanted to go short, I could easily just be like, oh, Tom, you know, 460 line, like that one's looking pretty good, you know, because our cells always match and our covers always match, you know? Exactly. That was one time it was long, right? Well, exactly same entry as you. Yeah, same entry, almost. Yeah. So, you know, I think it's all comes down to that process I was talking about. And I think that's the most important for the new traders to find, you know, the edge, right? To find, to know what they're looking for. Because you coming into the market without even knowing what exactly what you're looking for, I mean, that's hard, right? How can you keep up with that? All the prints, you know, all the charts, all the tapes, it's impossible. Acute with, you know, emotions, discipline, you know, a timeframe as well sometimes, you know, flow, you know, easy to borrow, fucking market cap, dilutions. You have all that, you know, informations and also in the chat room that we have, you know, plenty of ideas coming in, right? All the text and if you take that, all that seriously, all at once and you don't even focus on what you do that, you're gonna, you know, be confusing. All those information are really overwhelmed and it happened to me before, right? When I was like, you know, talking to, like chatting to so many people at the same time. So that would be my, you know, my best advice, focus on that process, define what is your process and stick to that. Yeah. I love it. I love that. I love it. I can't really repeat it, but like, you know, it's just, you know, every single day, like, you know, it's just a camaraderie, all the mods and just like really, it's really like a team environment and it's really just like a family environment. Fun as fuck. Fun as fuck. Every single day we're just, we're just trading. Yeah, I think right. It's not like I'm like, oh, Tom, I'm gonna get you. I'm gonna get you, Tom. I love it. Because Tom's shorting it to the pop, you know? Oh, yeah. I love it. It's the best thing that you could, you know, wish for, right? Being able to trade, having fun, making a lot of money, you know, have, you know, met a lot of new friends and being to help people at the same time. I mean, what else do you want, right? I mean, like us now, we trading for like, maybe 30 minutes or like an hour. Sometimes I'm done, like, you know, after 15 minutes that opens. Man, I was stopping all day to like friggin three o'clock, but yeah, you know, did anyone just keep posting like as the day it went on? I was busy. I didn't have fucking any time. That's funny as shit. So I love it. Honestly, I think this is a cool fucking interview, dude. I love this shit. I really do. I love you guys. I love talking about this shit. I think. And yeah, I guess we'll just wrap it up here and you know, see you guys for the next one. Yeah. Later guys. Yeah.