 The next item of business is a debate on motion number 13112, in the name of Rosanna Cunningham, on Scottish apprenticeship week. Could members who wish to speak please press the request to speak buttons now please, and I call on Rosanna Cunningham to speak to and move the motion, cabinet secretary, maximum 13 minutes. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I have seen the look in your eye and will try to bring it in a little more short than that. Today is an opportunity to promote the forthcoming Scottish Apprenticeship week to celebrate the success of Scotland's modern apprentices and everyone associated with the programme, which has become a key element of our approach to economic development and to youth employment. The prominence of apprenticeships across manifestos for the recent general election illustrates cross-party understanding of their importance. They are unique in terms of supporting young people into sustainable and rewarding careers while contributing to the skills and needs of our businesses. Modern apprenticeships do not only support young people, they are open to people of all ages, and given the diverse needs of the businesses that use them, it is right that this is the case. However, today I would like to focus on the important role that they play in supporting our ambitions for youth employment. The overall success of Scotland's modern apprenticeship programme is undeniable, and its contribution to our economy continues to evolve. The Government has grown the programme from 15,000 starts in 2007 to more than 25,000 new places each year for the last three years. Those opportunities span the Scottish economy from sectors with a long tradition of training apprentices—like construction and engineering—to grow in newer sectors for apprenticeships such as financial services. We are now committed to increasing the target to at least 30,000 new modern apprenticeship opportunities each year by 2020. That is a central part of our ambition to develop a world-class vocational education system that matches our world-class and free system of higher education. We need to ensure that work-based learning, like all parts of our education system, is valued by employers and offers opportunities to all young people irrespective of their background. We need to ensure that more employers, particularly small employers, engage with the programme, and we need to align modern apprenticeship opportunities with emerging growth sectors across our economy. I want to say something about the week that is upcoming. I congratulate Skills Development Scotland on the work that it does to deliver Scotland's modern apprenticeship programme. I also congratulate the network of delivery partners, including private training providers, local authorities, third sector providers and colleges, who work every day with thousands of apprentices and employers across the country. Scottish Apprenticeship Week, which SDS is co-ordinating across Scotland, will highlight the reach and impact of the programme. I will be taking part in a range of events, including a business conference with SCDI and a visit to GTG training to meet some of their apprentices in training. The Minister for Youth and Women's Employment is also undertaking a number of visits. I understand that SDS has invited members to local apprenticeship week events around the country, and I would strongly encourage everyone to see for themselves the benefits that the programme delivers. Over recent years, Scotland has made significant progress in addressing youth unemployment. It is important to acknowledge the crucial role played by employers, training providers, colleges and third sector organisations in supporting our young people toward and into work through an extremely challenging period of the recession. A return to the levels of youth unemployment to pre-recessionary levels is an important milestone, but we must maintain our commitment to going further than that. In partnership with local authorities, we have embarked on the implementation of an ambitious strategy to reduce youth unemployment by 40 per cent by 2021. That will take Scotland to a level that will match the top performing European countries and expanding our modern apprenticeship programme will provide a key contribution to that. Equally, that strategy is as much about promoting to school pupils and those who influence them that there are many routes into a wide variety of good jobs. The world is changing rapidly and jobs are evolving. We need to develop our collaboration and crucial links between schools, colleges and business across children's broad general education and senior phase in exciting new ways in order to make this vision a reality. One way in which we are doing this is through the introduction of foundation apprenticeships, which offer young people the chance of work-based learning as part of an existing modern apprenticeship framework, but while still in the senior phase of school. Any expansion in modern apprenticeships must be driven by employer demand. Our apprenticeship scheme is tied to real jobs in the labour market. We already prioritised the funding contributions for modern apprenticeships towards key and enabling sectors of the economy and will continue to do that. Skills investment plans and regional skills assessments are important elements of Scotland's skills planning system. Developed in partnership with industry, they provide a detailed insight into the current and future skills needs of Scotland's economy, allowing our education and skills system to align with employer needs. We want to persuade more employers to participate in the programme, so it is important that the quality of training being delivered remains at a high standard. This year, we are introducing a pathfinder project to independently quality assure the training delivered through the modern apprenticeship programme. In its report, the commission for developing Scotland's young workforce, the Wood commission, highlighted key equality challenges across vocational education. I know that there are a number of members in the chamber who have very particular concerns in this area. Not just across vocational education, of course, those equality challenges are felt across the whole of the labour market and, indeed, society. We have all got to take those challenges seriously. Through our youth employment strategy, we committed to bringing forward new initiatives to encourage more people from underrepresented groups to take part in the modern apprenticeship programme. As cultural norms do not change quickly, some of that activity will need to address wider societal issues in the long term. However, we have also got to look to make improvement where we can now. To implement that commitment, we provided SDS with additional funding in 2014-15 to develop a range of equality activity. I would like to highlight examples of some of the work that that supported. First, in regard to occupational segregation, it is important that we recognise that progress has been made on occupational segregation within the modern apprenticeship programme. In 2013-14, 41 per cent of modern apprenticeship starts where women compared to only 27 per cent in 2008-09. That is good progress, but there are still significant gender imbalances that need to be addressed. We need to widen young people's perceptions from an early stage to ensure that they make more informed choices. SDS is already working with leading gender equality organisations and local authorities to challenge and tackle gender segregation. Through the recent SDS campaign, You Work, You Learn, You Earn, we promote modern apprenticeships as a career option for young women, encouraging them to consider modern apprenticeship roles in sectors that are traditionally regarded as male dominated. For the minister and myself, we have met a number of young women in areas of the labour market that would not normally be associated with women's employment, but they are beginning to move into those areas. It is very good that those role models now exist. SDS is also working with a number of wider partners, including in gender, close the gap, equate the Institute of Physics and CITB, to identify and address some of the most difficult and ingrained issues that are preventing young women from considering non-traditional areas of employment. During 2013-14, only 0.4 per cent of all modern apprenticeship starts declared themselves as having a disability. I know that that is a matter of concern for a very great number of people. That figure is based on self-declaration, with evidence of some under-reporting. Nevertheless, it is clear that disabled people are under-represented within modern apprenticeships as they are in the workforce as a whole. We need to work on a number of fronts to change the perceptions of employers, parents and, indeed, young disabled people themselves. Some of the steps that SDS is currently taking to achieve that include working with Barnardo's and Remploy on specific targeted pathway projects to help over 100 disabled young people through the employability fund to enter into a modern apprenticeship. That will align with the help that is available through Community Jobs Scotland, where we are already providing support and job training opportunities to unemployed young people aged 16 to 24, including those who face additional barriers to employment. However, increasing the participation of disabled people in work goes beyond the modern apprenticeship programme, obviously. The DWP's access to work programme plays an important role in helping disabled people in Scotland to remain in work. I would be concerned if reported proposals to limit the support that is available through access to work adversely impacted on disabled people in Scotland. I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for taking intervention. I listened to what she had to say in terms of societal norms that need to be overcome, and I think that she is absolutely correct in that respect. However, she will be aware of the fairly significant discrepancy between the figures of disabled people involved in modern apprenticeship south of the border and those north of the border. I think that the same issues of under declaration probably still exist. Is there any work that has been done by the Government to try and get a better understanding about why that discrepancy is there? We are looking at that very carefully, because there is a significant difference, and we need to understand how that has come about. It will not have happened overnight, and there are some real issues there. One of the things that we are looking at in Scotland has always traditionally been a jobs-led apprenticeship programme, and there has been historically perhaps a bigger challenge with some employers. However, I would not want to make that a gross assumption that that is the only thing that has been happening. I think that there may be more going on. We are building a capacity across the skills and training landscape, and SDS is taking concrete steps through a programme of continuing professional development to ensure that SDS staff and training providers are better able to support disabled people into modern apprenticeships. We want to take a range of actions. SDS has also set up an equalities advice line, and it is also developing an additional support needs resource guide for training providers in this area. It is also working with employer bodies to highlight the benefits to employers of recruiting from a more diverse population, including young disabled people, and helping them to access support for disabled employees. I want to say something about the group of young people who would be broadly classified as BME. They are less likely to participate in certain vocational pathways for a number, again, of complex reasons, including in some cases the cultural attitude of their parents. Changing the perceptions of the value of modern apprenticeships will play a key role in increasing the number of BME young people considering that as the right option for them. SDS is currently working with a number of organisations to engage directly with BME communities to change those perceptions and raise awareness. SDS is also undertaking research to better understand the barriers real and perceived and building an evidence base on which to base an improvement plan. I am conscious of the time that I want to make sure that I do get this in, because what we want to do is commit to taking real, tangible action that follows on what Liam McArthur said, to improve the accessibility of modern apprenticeship opportunities to all young people within our society. Today, I can announce an allocation of £500,000 to the SDS specifically to support the final development and early delivery of an equality action plan, which will look across those various areas. In conclusion, I am proud of how far we have come since 2007, and I am proud of the work that we are doing and the targets that we are setting ourselves for 2020 in terms of apprenticeships and 2021 in terms of youth unemployment. I hope that everybody in the chamber today will join with me in celebrating the success of the programme at one of the many Scottish apprenticeship events that will take place next week. I thank the cabinet secretary and the Government for bringing forward this debate to celebrate the Scottish apprenticeship week. I welcome the money that the cabinet secretary has just announced, although probably, with my remarks, you will understand why I am maybe not welcome that it is SDS that will be the function for that, but I welcome the money and any help that will address the issues that the Labour has brought to the chamber today. It is a great opportunity for me to offer our support as a Labour Party to working with the Scottish Government to help as many young people as possible in Scotland to access apprenticeships. The belief in the potential of our young people and their capacity to excel if we empower them to do so is undoubtedly a belief shared across this chamber and Scotland. The Parliament works best when we come together across the chamber and work towards improving the opportunities of our constituents. I and my colleagues welcome the commitment made by the Government in December 2014 to take forward the recommendations of Sir Ian Wood's commission for developing Scotland's young workforce. I hope that the Government is successful in the aim of cutting youth unemployment by 40 per cent. Apprenticeships, as highlighted by apprenticeship week, are obviously a key part of that. Throughout our public sector, decision makers and staff on the front lines make a tremendous effort to ensure that opportunities are open for as many young people as possible. I know that several colleagues have worked in and around local government, and they will not need me to remind them of some of the leading edge schemes that our councils have come up with. Falkirk and South Lanarkshire councils' efforts to facilitate apprenticeships in their communities are well worthy of recognition and merit. Given time constraints, I will mention only one—my native North Lanarkshire. Schools in North Lanarkshire offer their pupils real practical opportunities. During the 2013-14 session, the in-school vocational education delivery model enabled more than 2,000 senior students to undertake vocational training courses alongside traditional subjects in 63 custom-made facilities across 24 mainstream and eight specialist schools. The subjects are varied from construction, craft to beauty care and are SQA certified. Two North Lanarkshire schools have pioneered a programme where young people are offered the opportunity to learn the trade of professional cookery, while working with North Lanarkshire for a period of one year, gaining practical work experience while they undertake a vocational qualification. Our councils are at the front line against youth unemployment, and I have always held a view that it is those who deal with such issues every day who are best equipped to know how to tackle the same issues at a national level. I think that it is important that our Government continues to empower them to improve their offer to young people at a local level. I know that the Government says that it is a key aim of the Administration to enshrine qualities into every aspect of its legislation. Perhaps it is the years that I spent on the Parliament's Equal Opportunities Committee, but I feel that it will be remiss of me not to mention the real concerns that I have about their success in doing so with the apprenticeship programme. I acknowledge the efforts of the Government to offer the opportunity of an apprenticeship to all regard us of background. It is to be welcomed that the number of young women entering apprenticeships increased significantly by 2012-13 to the point where there were almost four times as many female apprenticeships as there had been in 2008-9. Yet the Audit Scotland report for March 2015 indicated that the Government's flagship modern apprenticeship programme had only served to reinforce gender segregation. As I am sure many in the chamber already know, in 2012-13 98 per cent of construction apprentices were male and 97 per cent of childcare apprentices were female. The Quality and Human Rights Commission has stated that the uptake of modern apprenticeships in Scotland is typified by significant gender segregation, with ethnic minorities and disabled people also appearing to have low levels of access to all forms of apprenticeships. It is a depressing fact that less than 0.5 per cent of all modern apprenticeship placements are taken by someone with a declared disability. Skills Development Scotland has been tasked with addressing the gender imbalance that exists in sectors such as construction and health and social care. However, that seems to have had little impact. SDS's own figures indicate that, as of December 2014, only 4 per cent of engineering apprentices in Scotland were women. To ask SDS to take the lead while attacking a societal issue such as occupational segregation and expect them to make great strides seems to me to be a rather optimistic course of action. Yes, it should be incumbent on them to encourage young women to seek out alternative careers, but really that seems to be outwith that organisation's abilities and remit. During my time on equal opportunities committee, gender segregation in Scotland was an issue that was spoken about time and time again. While it was compiling the women and work report, we heard evidence that indicated that there was not a high female uptake among young women at school for science, technology, engineering and math subjects. SDS indicated that only 15 per cent of those doing IT courses, for instance, were female. If we are serious about breaking through glass ceilings, that is a problem that has to be tackled at a much earlier stage. We need to hear the experiences of successful women in those fields and listen to how they think that we can foster a new generation of young female apprentices in those areas. I do not want to have a prolonged discussion. I think that the person who trained the first female joiner in Argyll well over 20 years ago, and as I am sure Liam McArthur will confirm, the Orkneyland Council now employ a young apprentice female stonemason. Do you feel that there is an opportunity for employers to realise the significant benefits of introducing women into their workforce? Yes, I totally agree, but the depressing thing is that we are talking about one in your example there after 20 years, and I know that it is supposed to be something positive, but I think that we have to do a lot more than we are doing just now. As I said, I do not want to have a prolonged discussion on this during a debate on apprenticeships, but I cannot fail to mention the Government's cuts to colleges and the disproportionate effect that they have had on women. There has been a drop of 41 per cent—that is 41 per cent—in the number of women at college in Scotland since 2007-08. How can we expect women to reach their potential if we are pulling ladder out from underneath them in this way? After the publication of the Government's response to the Wood commission, I wrote to the minister and asked her about the Government's plans to tackle occupational segregation in the workforce more broadly. I was heartened by her response when she outlined some of the pilots that the Government is sponsoring, and I hope that similar schemes will prove effective in challenging gender segregation in the workplace. In the past, I have received correspondence from SDS regarding concerns that I have put forward in Parliament that the modern apprenticeship programme does not deliver for not only women, but the protected groups under the Equality Act in general. I do not doubt the sincerity of the commitment of those at SDS to predicting our vulnerable groups, but I think that the organisation could do more. In October 2013, I asked the then minister, Angela Constance, how many people participating in the programme identified as being part of the LGBT community. The letter that I received from Mr Danny Loog, then SDS director of operations, made clear that their organisation did not gather that information. For a public body task for ensuring that a programme is representative to neglect gathering the most basic information is unacceptable. Similarly, in December 2013, I asked the Government how many people in the modern apprenticeship programme had a learning difficulty. The response that I received from SDS indicated that, while they asked about disability, they did not differentiate between physical and mental challenges. With the only question asked of applicants, do you have a mental or a physical impairment that has had a long-term and adverse effect on your ability to perform normal day-to-day activities? There is no opportunity for candidates to elaborate. A yes or no is all that is required. Given that the challenges facing those who identify as having a physical disability and those who have complex mental health issues are so different by any standard, they should not be lumped together. No useful information can be gained from such a narrow and standardised test. I also think that I have to look at a pretext for apprentices currently serving their time, whose employers are faced with redundancies. I know that this is an issue that I have spoken about before, but I believe that a lot more should and could be done in this area. Recently, I had the pleasure of attending the Young Scotland's Got Talent Lanarkshire event with My Region. The event was a great example of third sector and private sector groups coming together with local authorities to help young people with complex conditions to achieve their potential. The event appealed to the aspirations of those attending and encouraged employers to offer motivated young people with conditions such as autism and an opportunity to beat through a job or an apprenticeship. Among the attendees, there was an agreement. If the support networks were in place and opportunities were available, young Scots of various backgrounds could reach their potential. There was a sense that if we worked together, we could achieve so much more. Across the chamber, I believe that there is much in the way of common ground and common purpose on this issue. On those benches, we are happy to support the Government's motion. However, more work needs to be done in raising the number of apprenticeships that is being taken up by women and LGBTs, black, Asian and minority ethnic people. That is why, for serious, we must support Labour's amendment and move the amendment to my name. Presiding Officer, if I continue on the common purpose and common agreement, we also welcome this debate going into Scottish Apprenticeship week to highlight the work done, the opportunities gained, the life chances enhanced, and to look at how much more we can do. This would include ensuring that modern apprenticeships are open to all who could benefit from them, and I will also be doing my visit next week. I move the amendment in my name, and I can say that we support the Government's motion and the Labour amendment, and I trust that our amendment will be taken as positively and constructively as it is written to improve accessibility to modern apprenticeships to all in future. I would like to go to the numbers for male and female apprenticeships and not just look at the occupational segregation, because at level 2, male and female apprentices are almost equal. At level 3, there is about 50 per cent more males than females. At level 4, three times more male than female. At level 5, 10 times more male than female. I do think that this needs to be looked at. It is not just the culture, not just the occupational segregation, but it is also at the level of achievement. I heard what the cabinet secretary said about the disabled, and I very much welcome the 500,000 to address the equality of opportunity. I do think that the fact that in England almost 8 per cent of apprenticeships are undertaken by people with a declared disability, and in Scotland it is less than 1 per cent. In fact, it is 0.7 per cent. I welcome the fact that they will be looking at this issue, and I also welcome the commitment to looking at the support that can be given where appropriate to ensure that modern apprenticeships are open to disabled people. There can be no doubt that the abolition of employers' national insurance contributions for apprentices aged under 25 is a significant positive step to incentivising employers to recruit more apprentices. I expect that MSPs all across the chamber will welcome this initiative. At last week's cross-party group on colleges, we heard of considerable good practice, including the articulation from apprentice training and HNC to second-year university, which can be achieved by colleges and universities working more closely to ensure that second-year students coming from FV and from apprenticeships are at the same starting point in terms of knowledge, experience and qualifications so that training for an apprenticeship doesn't always end with an apprenticeship and it can continue. However, a colleges briefing paper highlights their aim to introduce apprenticeships in growing industries such as IT, energy, life sciences, finance and management. I welcome that, particularly given the recent Audit Scotland report last year, stating that there was very little correlation between modern apprenticeships and the growth industries in Scotland. I welcome that from Edinburgh College and I think that the SDS could do more. Lockheed Martin in his briefing stated that there is currently a shortage of young people entering digital technology. That came with the warning from Lockheed Martin that Scotland could lose out on the huge economic benefits to our nation without a stream of well-qualified young people coming into the industry. I think that we will have to listen to employers. I especially liked Asda's briefing stating that they hire for attitude and train for skill. It is worth putting on the record that we should do more to value apprenticeships and jobs in the retail and hospitality sectors, given the huge numbers that they employ. The fact that the chief executive of Asda, Andy Clark, began his retail career aged 17 as a supermarket trolley attendant is proof that this is not just training for a few months but does provide a proper career path. There is much good work being done, but there are also some concerns. One of my concerns is that 93,000 young people aged between 16 and 24 in Scotland are not in education, employment or training. We need to know what is being done to target this group, which increased by 3,000 in 2013. The other thing is that the Government is announcing the modern apprentice starts, but we need to look at the modern apprentice achievements. If we simply look at 2014-15, 19,500 starts in modern apprenticeships, but 13,500 achieved a modern apprenticeship. In other words, out of 19,500 MA starts, 6,000 did not achieve an apprenticeship, and that was down by 6 per cent on the previous year. The point is that the measurement should not just be on those who enrol in the programme. The success has to be judged on those who successfully complete the programme, and a 28 per cent rate of non-achievement is not acceptable. I will now move to open debate. Six-minute speeches are called on Gordon MacDonald to be followed by Ian Gray, very tight for time today. The focus for too long across not just Scotland but also the UK has been the view of some parents and educationalists that the only path to a successful career or good job prospect was the academic route via university. Many job opportunities for trained craftsmen and women pay higher salaries than university graduates would expect. For instance, according to one recruitment website, bricklayers can expect to earn 50 per cent more than the average national wage. Choosing a vocational career and particularly deciding to be an apprentice can for many young people bring instant benefits in that they earn a salary while working. They also gain a recognised qualification while working. There is on-the-job training that provides real work experience. There is funding to help meet training costs, and for many it is a shorter route to a well-paid job than university. The City of Edinburgh Council and the CITB organised construction career tester sessions to give potential candidates interest in construction careers the opportunity to come along and experience a real project, talk with apprentices, project managers and experience a construction site. The reason that this is important is that, as the economy is improving, there is more and more demand for skilled individuals across the construction industry. Some of this will be met by people returning after the recession, but, for workforce planning reasons, the sector needs apprentices. However, it is not just in construction where there are apprenticeship opportunities. The Skills Development Scotland website highlights that just some of the opportunities are currently available in the Edinburgh area. I am ranging from Heret Watt University in my constituency where there are modern apprenticeship vacancies for mechanical technicians to install, maintain and operate research equipment, including instruments, electrical equipment and robotics, to landscape gardening and horticultural modern apprenticeships with a small company. The briefing from Edinburgh College highlighted that they currently employ 148 modern apprenticeships across key sectors, including engineering, hospitality, automotive, hairdressing, childcare, highways, maintenance and security. They have indicated that, next year, that number will increase by up to another 50 modern apprenticeships. Of course, Edinburgh College works with employers and training providers to deliver apprenticeship training in additional areas, including construction trades, care, business administration, accounting and sports and leisure, with more than 1,000 apprentices training there each year. Over the last three years, the Scottish Government has delivered over 77,000 modern apprenticeship opportunities, exceeding the target set of 25,000 each year. The Government has announced that the number will increase to 30,000 new modern apprenticeships by 2020. That is nearly double the number of modern apprenticeships that were in existence in 2007 and 2008. In addition, the new opportunities will be focused on higher-level apprenticeships that will equip even more of our young people with the skills and need for the jobs of the future. In order to attract young people to apprenticeships, we need to provide that incentive so that any decision that they make about employment is not coloured by short-term judgment, i.e., how much are we going to get paid? It surely cannot be right that somebody can hold down a job and be only paid £2.72 per hour. Despite the increase that was announced by the UK Government recently about increasing the minimum wage for apprentices, current apprentices are paid 72 per cent of the young person's rate and 42 per cent of the adult minimum wage of £6.50. We already know that the adult minimum wage is inadequate, hence the calls for paying the living wage. Therefore, how can it be acceptable to only pay £2.73 per hour to an apprentice? The cabinet secretary has already called for the UK Government to bring payment for apprentices into line with the other bans in the national minimum wage. The apprentice rate was introduced on 1 October 2010 by the Conservative Government, reducing the pay for those apprentices who previously would have been paid the higher young person's rate. The Scottish Government has called for the devolution of the minimum wage so that this place can set the level that helps our economy grow. Of course, many companies pay higher wages to apprentices in order to retain them when they complete their training. As in the organisation's interest, having invested time and resources to train the apprentice to meet their specific needs, from my own experience I am aware that many companies who have for many decades trained apprentices have generous pay scales in place. First year apprentices are paid a third of the tradesman's rate, second year apprentices are paid a half, third year apprentices two thirds and fourth year apprentices are paid three quarters of a qualified tradesman's rate. If we can set apprenticeship rates to similar levels to best practice that already exists within many companies and organisations, young people and their parents will see the benefits of a vocational career. Vocational education means that the young person is learning work-related practical skills and the knowledge they need to understand how to use those skills. Many companies across the UK have signed up to the 5 per cent club charter that encourages companies to employ 5 per cent of apprentices and graduates of their workflows. In next week's national apprenticeship week, wouldn't it be good for all SMEs to aim for that target? Excellent. Many thanks. Now Colin Ian Gray to be followed by George Adam. Thank you Presiding Officer. My family story and that of the generation of my father and myself is a pretty typical one, I think, for the time my dad did an apprenticeship. He left school at 14. I went to the SMT, did an apprenticeship as a motor mechanic. His brothers did the same things, similar apprenticeships in engineering of one kind or another. Then a generation later, I was the one who first went to university to graduate and then become a teacher, a professional career. That's the story of so many families, I think, in Scotland of that time. And yet it isn't as simple as it seems, because although my dad was a motor mechanic, he spent his time with me teaching me maths for fun. My mother gave me a love of the written word and books, and my dad gave me a love of mathematics. It was that motor mechanic that sparked the interest of me, which eventually led, if only fleetingly, to an ability at university to solve equations in Hilbert-Igans space. He did that because he never stopped learning himself. When he was teaching me logarithms in the living room before bed, it was because he was working through those problems in the night school classes he was attending to continue to raise his levels of skill and qualification. As a result, he didn't end his career as a motor mechanic, but rather as a relatively senior civil servant, the manager of one of the biggest goods vehicle testing stations in Scotland. He ended up in a professional career by the route of an apprenticeship. I ended up in a professional career by the route of a university degree. We ended up pretty much in the same place, although the route was different. That is not the only thing that was different. There were other differences. One is that I threw it all up for this, which I think he never would have done. The other is that the truth is that, although he was a motor mechanic, he could do much more than that. He could strip and rebuild a car, his whole work in life, but he could also rewire and replum a house, design, draw and make anything that he can conceive of in wood. For me, I can just about change a plug. My point is that, somewhere, someone somehow in society decided that I was better than him because he had been an apprentice and I had been to university. Somewhere, someone decided that my degree was better and worth more than his apprenticeship, which took him just as long to achieve as I did at university. That is nonsense, and it is a nonsense that has distorted the lives of too many young people in this country. It is a nonsense that does not exist in countries such as Germany, and it is a nonsense that we have to change. If apprenticeship week is about anything, let us not simply make it about celebrating apprenticeships, but let us make it about beginning to rehabilitate them, to rebuild the parity of esteem that they once had with academic qualifications. Many things about that election last week disappointed me, but one of them was in the leader's debate when the First Minister was asked about a budget debate where we did a deal with the SNP in order to get a budget through. That was in 2009. I asked about what the deal was. She said that she could not remember the detail. The detail was an increase in the apprenticeship programme. She never forgot her university track record, but she did forget that apprenticeship agreement. That is disappointing. The truth is that it is not just time to remember apprenticeships but to get real about them as well. The cabinet secretary said that the SNP Government inherited 15,000 modern apprenticeships and now they have 25,000, but that is not true. Over 9,000 of those 25,000 apprenticeships are level 2 apprenticeships, which existed but were not called apprenticeships in 2007. The truth is that in 0607 there were 15,869 apprenticeships that started at level 3 or above, and in 1314 there were 15,655. We have not actually increased the programme at all, and it is lower than the high point back in 2004-05 when it was over 21,000. We need to get real about those apprenticeships. When I met the First Minister in 2009 to negotiate that deal, he said, we must not let us become a numbers game where you pursue us about how many apprenticeships we have created. You have to accept my commitment to try and deliver them. I have never done that, but the problem is that the Scottish Government itself has turned this into a numbers game. The numbers do not actually look that good. It is true that all apprenticeships in Scotland are job-related, but it is also true in England that there are 440,000 stars way over 10 times what we have. It is true that there has been little or no progress in ideas such as hosted apprenticeships or agency apprenticeships or articulated apprenticeships routes. It is true that that route through night school that my dad followed is completely closed now because of the changes in our college sector. If we really want to do something for apprenticeship week, we should learn to understand apprenticeships, to love their power to change lives, to value them properly, and to stop just counting them and patting ourselves on the back. Many thanks. Now, Colin George-Adam, to be followed by Mark Griffin up to six minutes, please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I welcome this debate during the build-up for apprenticeship week next week. Over the years, I have met many of the training organisations in my constituency and many of the young people who are training towards their future career. Vocational training is very important to me, because, like Ian Gray, my own father had not become an apprentice at 15 with Balfour Kilpatrick and Paisley in his life and, in turn, my life might have taken a completely different turn. He was a young man from Ferguson Park and he faced the many challenges that that community faces still to this very day. He failed his 11 plus exam and was put on the academic scrap heap until he walked into the old Baru office in Paisley, and he told him to go and talk to this company. He later ran his own business in this field and employed many of his friends from his own community. The shorthand version of this very long story is that this was a defining moment in his working life. It is not unusual, as Ian Gray has already told us, that there are many similar stories like this about how important vocational training and apprenticeships can be. I think that we will skip the part of the story, when he tried to pass his engineering skills on to his son, because that does not have quite as happy an ending. However, as I am aware, this is how important this can make and the opportunities that it offers young people in Scotland. That is the reason why I backed the Scottish Government's vision to develop a world-class vocational education system that matches our world-class higher education system. There are many challenges, though. The interim report from the commission for development Scotland's young workforce states that we must move on from our ingrained and frankly ill-informed culture that somehow vocational education is an inferior option. That is an issue that keeps coming up during the evidence that we are receiving at the education committee at the moment with regard to our inquiry into educational attainment. There appears to be an uneven playing field with regard to academic achievement and vocational achievement. Many schools are focused purely on the academic and are not showing the leadership necessary to offer other careers for our young people. When I asked some of the business representatives about the inequalities attainment and in the workplace during one of the committee meetings, Phil Ford from the construction industry training board Scotland said, some schools measure success by the number of pupils who go to university. We need to challenge that and promote vocational careers as being equally valid. He was also mentioned by Terry Lannigan of the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland. I believe that vocational education is as important to academic young people as it is to others. The skills that are developed through work-based learning are important to everyone in society. One of the challenges is to persuade Scottish society, particularly but not exclusively parents, to recognise the value of different routes to lifetime achievement. That is the challenges that we are currently dealing with at this very moment, because we have many parents who actually see the academic route as the only way forward for said young child. I have heard constituents come to me who their son has wanted to go down a practical engineering course, and he has been actually, because he is quite bright and academic, he has been encouraged to go down that route. We need to find the balance that will make that better. As the chairman states in the forward of developing Scotland's workforce final report, we also have a challenge in the fact that only 30 per cent of Scottish businesses have any kind of contact with educational establishments. Obviously, the Scottish Government has agreed that it will take on board many of the things said in this report, but that is still an issue. We still have a situation where many schools and educational establishments will not let third sector organisations or will not allow partner organisations of said authority in to help and work with attainment, or, in this case, to talk about vocational education as well. It is one of the things that, when we visited the Westerhales Fould education centre, they told us that their connection with local colleges and how they worked in the whole area to make sure that they had the idea that young people could go down a vocational side in secondary school. That was quite impressive for me, because I think that that is the way that we will have to go forward. However, the modern apprenticeship scheme also has problems with small businesses, because many small businesses believe that they need to see a value in their training and that that young person is not just getting taken away from their workplace and that they are getting something back from that. Although that might be a perception that they have, there is something that we need to address because we need to have more small businesses involved in the modern apprenticeship programme and all forms of training, because we have so many businesses that could make a difference. It needs to be relevant to those companies and those businesses. Last year, when I was involved in apprenticeship week, I went along to Muir Slicer in Paisley, and they are a company that has over 300 modern apprenticeships across a range of sectors and boasts an achievement rate of over 90 per cent. While I was there, I met a young woman called Chelsea McGregor, who was an example of a young woman who might have dropped out and wouldn't have had a job either. She told me how much it made a difference to her life and how she has been able to move things on. In closing, we have to take on board what a lot of those companies are saying, but also make sure that a lot of it is perception and not reality in the situation. However, we need to work with them to ensure that everyone can get that opportunity that vocational training and apprenticeships offer. As I say, like Keane Gray, if it had not been for my father walking into that brew office, I might not be here today. Many thanks. I will now call on Mark Griffin to be followed by Nigel Dawn up to six minutes, please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I welcome the opportunity to speak in this afternoon's debate on Scottish Apprenticeship Week. The Commission on Developing Scotland's Young Workforce rightly highlighted the need to do all we can to ensure that apprenticeships of vocational education receive the parity with other forms of education that they deserve. Not everyone is suited to an academic career in further or higher education, and even those who are not everyone wants to pursue that academic career. It is right, then, that we take the opportunity this afternoon and throughout the course of next week to do all that we can to show how important and valuable an apprenticeship is. In Scotland, there seems to be a level of snobbery when it comes to the aspirations that we have for our young people. When children are growing up, parents or guardians will dream of their kids going to university one day. I went to university after completing my sixth year at school, along with a number of my friends. When we were in second year at uni, only half way through, our friends who left school after a fourth year to get an apprenticeship were fully qualified and had been earning for four years. I do not know anyone personally who did not complete their apprenticeship, but I know plenty of people who dropped out of university in the first couple of years. I do not know anyone who completed their apprenticeship, who is not still working in that industry, but I know plenty of people who have degrees and have struggled to get a job in that area. I do not know a single person who I grew up with who went to university and now runs their own business, but I know plenty of people who completed their apprenticeships and are now successful small business owners. When we see just how successful young people who complete apprenticeship courses can be, I think that we really need to redouble our efforts to make sure that there is a quality of access for women, those from our BME community and disabled young people. There are clear gender equalities within vocational education and apprenticeships. A report by the Equality and Human Rights Commission from 2013 found that, although men are increasingly moving into traditionally female apprenticeship programmes, there is no evidence of an increase of women entering traditionally male apprenticeships. That is a worrying statement, and if that trend continues, the only possible outcome is that the gender gap between male and female apprenticeship entrants, which already sits at 59 per cent male and 41 per cent female, will just grow wider. There is also a massive disparity in the number of disabled young people who start an apprenticeship. Around 8 per cent of the population are disabled and yet the percentage of modern apprentices who report on a disability has not even reached a single per cent in any of the past five years. I wonder if the minister is able to say in closing what Skills Development Scotland is planning to do to grow that number by way of encouraging disabled young people and by what they plan to do with Skills Development Scotland to encourage employers to hire more disabled people. The Equality and Human Rights Commission also commented that we need to harness the talents of all of Scotland's people. We are missing a trick by failing to maximise the potential of all Scotland's people. We believe that the Government needs to demand greater effort from its contractors to drive up the representation of ethnic minorities and disabled people. The focus needs to shift from what a young disabled person can't do to what they can do to take advantage of their talents and skills. I think that it has become clear to people in my generation when we see how successful our peers have been who have completed apprenticeships, and that we will not be dreaming purely of academic futures for our children, but we will be telling the stories of our friends who have gone on to complete apprenticeships and be successful business owners. However, we have to do the work right now to make sure that our young women and young men are encouraged to pursue an apprenticeship in any field and that we make sure that we are not locking out disabled or BMA young people from one of the best opportunities they will have in pursuing a career in support. I support the motion and the Government's name and the amendment in the name of Siobhan MacMahon. Thank you very much. I know Colin Nigel Dawn to be followed by Liam McArthur. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. It's amazing how quickly apprenticeship year week comes round each year. I am looking forward once again to hosting an event next week in the Parliament held by the Scottish Training Federation in Skills Development Scotland, and I hope to see many members at that event. It's not just an opportunity to talk about apprenticeships. It's an opportunity to meet some of the apprentices to recognise their extraordinary skills, and there's also an opportunity to hand out an award, so I hope that members will be there to see that. Clearly, the Scottish Government is doing the right kind of things. I was very interested in Iain Gray's comments about what happened in the past and the comparisons of the numbers. I don't want to get on that debate, but one of the things that I think is important at the moment is that Skills Development Scotland is actually making sure that it knows what skills are required and doing its best, therefore, to match apprenticeships with skills that are required, because that is a pretty obvious piece of management across the nation, and I'm grateful for it. I have a number of businesses in my constituency, of course, that take apprentices, and I'd like to highlight two to the chamber and indeed to ministers. Start with Whittaker's, which is quite a large, very specialised, very skilled engineering business just outside Stonehaven, which provides extremely clever bits of kit and well engineered bits of kit to the oil industry. They have, I think, some 23 modern apprentices. That gives you some idea of the scale of the operation, and they are very clued up as to what to do with them, to say, an extremely good and innovative employer. It's my privilege to meet them just a few weeks back. Even more recently, though, I went to a relatively smaller business called Blaise in Lawrencecac, again, very sophisticated, very skilled, providing fire and safety solutions, again, largely to the oil industry. But the point that they made when I asked them about apprenticeships is that, for a very small business, it's actually quite difficult to find the information. That's just not what they do. They make clever bits of kit, and they don't have a large HR department. So I think given the current aspiration of the government to get into small and medium-sized businesses, it might be wise just to have a look at how that information is provided to businesses who are better at making widgets than they are actually looking to see how to handle these things, and that might be something that the government would want to consider. I heartily endorse Gordon MacDonald's comments about pay rates to which I really have nothing to add, but I would like to bring to the Chamber's attention the comments that were made actually by Seeker, the Civil Engineering Association, with which I have quite a lot to do as convener of the cross-party group on construction. They were enthusiastic about foundation apprentices. They are being piloted in two regions, and they clearly felt that those were good because they enabled even younger folk to get involved. It seems to me that this is a real opportunity to ensure that youngsters at school can get some real workplace experience, some understanding of what it is that industry might be about, of the opportunities by going somewhere once a week, not just when they leave school, but through the last two or three years at school, in such a way that they can understand where that might lead and gain some of those personal skills that are so important to getting on to an apprenticeship. I noticed that the comment that was made by one of the supermarkets that they recruit on personality, on attitude, and then skills come afterwards. The ability to understand the workplace is actually important. You might have the right attitude, but you just do not know. Understanding what the world of work is about is extremely important to our youngsters. I noticed that, as a dad, my two teenagers went to work placement at school and did not learn very much at all. It was not a terribly useful experience. I hope that the foundation of apprenticeships will turn out to be very much more useful. I wonder whether I can talk and get back on what I suspect is a bit of a parliamentary hobbyhorse of mine, which is research. Audit Scotland, in a relatively recent report, made the point that it was quite difficult to evaluate how effective apprenticeships and many of our training opportunities are. I wonder whether we need just to encourage the Government to do more longitudinal studies about what happens within our society, because it is only by following a group of people, necessarily relatively small and it does cost some money, but actually following people through their teens and through their twenties and maybe even into their thirties, that will discover how effective those well-meaning and well-organised programmes actually are, and it is only by learning from that that we will do better in the future. Meanwhile, I encourage the Government to carry on doing what it is doing. I think that foundation apprenticeships are a serious opportunity and to be commended. We need to promote gender balance, that has already been discussed. Clearly, we need to improve as best we can the liaison between schools and industry, and we need to recognise that all those apprenticeships build skills, build confidence and build our economy for the future. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. In the run-up to Scottish Apprenticeship Week, like others, I welcome the fact that we are having this debate this afternoon. In that context, I very much look forward, like colleagues, to paying a visit next week to a local company in my constituency, in my case, Orkney Builders, to see first-hand the work that they do in providing apprenticeship opportunities for young people in the islands that I represent. Indeed, Orkney Builders is just one of a number of local building firms who, working alongside Orkney College, SDS and other partners, has shown a genuine commitment to apprenticeships and skills development over recent years. All of those businesses recognise that this investment is in their interests and interests of their sector, as well as the interests of the young individuals taking advantage of the high-quality work-based training on offer. There are undoubtedly good and positive stories to tell, stories that illustrate the life-changing difference that apprenticeships can and do make, stories that demonstrate the energising effect that apprenticeships can have on the businesses that take them on. Sophie Turner, the young stone mason apprentice taken on by Orkney Islands Council, referred to by Mike McKenzie earlier, is a perfect illustration of that. The commitment to step up the number of apprenticeships from 25,000 to 30,000 is one that Scottish Liberal Democrats genuinely support. However, as I have said before and as Ian Gray pointed out earlier, it is not purely a numbers game. Overall numbers are important, but the quality of what is provided, where those opportunities are being created and, as importantly, where and to whom they remain elusive, are equally important. I am sure that the cabinet secretary and the minister would have no difficulty accepting that. Presiding Officer, while setting my remarks in the context of a general welcome, both of what has been achieved in terms of modern apprenticeships and the commitment to go further, I feel that it is more valuable to spend my brief time this afternoon focusing on those aspects that are still not working as they should. A clear example of where opportunities simply are not being created is for those young people with a disability. That was the focus of my amendment for this afternoon, and, although it was not selected, I am pleased that it is an issue picked up by Shirley-Bhung McMahon and the Deed Mary Scanlon in their amendments, which I am happy to support, and it featured prominently in Roseanna Cunningham's opening remarks. Both the Scottish Children's Services Coalition and Inclusion Scotland have spelt out in stark terms the extent to which young disabled people are being let down when it comes to creating education and training opportunities. I think that we all accept that this is simply not good enough. In a recent parliamentary answer to me on the very subject, Ms Cunningham explained that, quote, as all apprentices in Scotland must be employed and recruitment is rightly a matter for employers, we do not have figures that tell us how many disabled people have applied for a modern apprenticeship opportunity. Meanwhile, skills development Scotland's own figures show that the overall number of modern apprentices who are disabled is less than 0.4 per cent. Over the last five years, despite a dramatic increase in the number of apprenticeship places, there has been no improvement. By no reckoning can this be considered acceptable, particularly when one considers that around 8 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds is disabled. At the same time in England, around 8.7 per cent of modern apprenticeships are taken up by those with a disability. Even allowing for differences in the schemes north and south of the border, this discrepancy in performance is hard to fathom, much less justify and I very much welcome the cabinet secretary's willingness to drill down further to get a better understanding of why this discrepancy exists, particularly given the SCSC's conclusion that, quote, Scotland fares worst of any of the home nations, indicating that major and concerted action is required. Meantime, the consequences should come as a surprise to no one, as the SCSC go on to say that young disabled people have a similar level of career aspiration at the age of 16 to their wider peer group. By the time they are 26, they are nearly four times more likely to be unemployed. The Government, of course, will argue that the concerted action is taking place. £3 million has been allocated following the wood report, which identified progress in this area as essential. I join with others in welcoming the announcement, presumably of the further £500,000 announced by the cabinet secretary in her opening remark. It is not clear, however, that what proportion of the overall funding will be allocated to the sort of interventions that are likely to increase the numbers of disabled young people successfully applying to take up modern apprenticeships, but perhaps the minister can address that in her summing up. I suspect that ministers may also be reluctant to set targets for what, as Ms Cunningham said in her recent parliamentary answer to me, is a matter for employers. However, Sir Ian Wood was very clear that he called for a quote, a realistic but stretching improvement target to increase the number of young disabled people to be introduced and reported on annually. Indeed, ministers appear to have accepted the principle of targets by agreeing to increase the number of modern apprenticeship starts from minority ethnic communities. It would be interesting to hear from Annabelle Ewing in closing whether the Government is willing to take a similar approach with regard to those with a disability and de-care leavers, and if not, why not. Sir Ian also recognised that there was nothing to be gained by willing the ends but not the means and therefore recommended that funding levels to colleges and ME training providers should be reviewed and adjusted to reflect the cost of providing additional support to young disabled people, and age restrictions should be replaced for those whose transition may take longer. Those are sensible and practical steps. Deputy Presiding Officer, I was intrigued to read the Inclusion Scotland comments about the access by those with a disability to the Government's Employability Fund. As the aim of the fund is to support activity that will help people to develop the skills that they need to secure a job or progress into more advanced training, one would be forgiven for thinking that the proportion of starts by people with a disability would be relatively high. In fact, that figure is only 2.5 per cent. Again, it would be helpful to hear from the minister what major and concerted actions have been taken to deliver the scale of change that we obviously need. There are other issues that I should have raised, but on this occasion I think that it is right to focus my brief remarks on increasing the opportunities for those with a disability. The Government has a decent story to tell on modern apprenticeships, but as the Equality and Human Rights Commission observes, we are missing a trick by failing to maximise the potential of all Scotland's people. Nowhere is that more relevant than in relation to those with a disability, and that is why Scottish Liberal Democrats will be supporting the Government's motion but also both amendments later this afternoon. We are here to celebrate the opportunities for people going into apprenticeships. I have listened very carefully to other members in the areas in which perhaps opportunities are not as equal. There is a perception out there that perhaps people with disabilities cannot achieve the same as those without disability. We have to look at the opportunities that are there. Certainly in my constituency, if we look at the wide range of opportunities for people in the apprenticeship programmes, they are wide and varied. To be perfectly honest, the majority would be open and available for people with a disability. I am looking at areas in the hospitality sector, for instance. There are not many areas in the hospitality sector that people with disabilities perhaps could not achieve. There are areas in the outdoors, Presiding Officer. I accept that, depending on your disability, there might be health and safety issues to prevent you from doing some work within forestry. However, there are opportunities in the outdoors. I know of the social enterprise in my constituency at Fox Lane that provides opportunities for people in market gardening, for instance. So, what I would be saying is that let's have a conversation. The conversation with people with regard to what they would like to do in terms of job opportunities. I know that RNIB, for instance, has been an employment officer and has had people working in different parts of Scotland for many years. In fact, I used to work alongside them prior to coming to Holyrood. However, despite that, we still do not seem to get the numbers into employment. Why is that? Is it the perception? I believe that the opportunity is there. I believe that there are jobs for people from all sectors and all walks of life. For instance, the Scottish Parliament, in its apprenticeship programme, looked very carefully at their selection to ensure that people from different socioeconomic backgrounds were given the opportunity for the apprenticeship programme, people from ethnic or disability backgrounds. Those opportunities exist, but it is up to the employer to make those available and to go through a selection process. Much has been said about degrees and vocational training. I do not have a degree, but I do not have vocational training either. Maybe, like Mr Gray, my ability to change a plug always depended on my daughter's availability when she was three to tell me the colours of the plug. Thankfully, she knew her colours. It is not because the opportunity was not available for me to do certain things, it is just that I chose a different pathway. I did, at one point, work in an engineering factory, but again, health and safety did come in and say, I am sorry. Actually, we think that it is too dangerous for you to be here. Subsequently, I believe that there are measures now in certain factories that people who are blind or have different disabilities can work with them in those sectors, and that is absolutely fine. However, I do not think that we have moved a great deal in the past 40 odd years anyway of trying to ensure that we create places for people with disabilities. Part of the problem is that the cabinet secretary mentioned access to work. Access to work is available when you are in work. It is not access to work, it is available when you are in employment. That is when it becomes available, that is when it has the ability to support you in employment. What we need to do is to try to ensure that the availability, whilst you are looking for work, is going through training or on an apprenticeship programme, is also there. If you need a particular piece of kit to ensure that you can do the job just as well as someone else, then that kit should be made available. You may well be able to do the job, but if you do not have the right facility to enable you to do that job, then the opportunity then is denied. It comes down to fundamental basics, Presiding Officer. This is where we are always letting ourselves down, because we do not look at the basics. We do not look at that start, that opportunity. What are the barriers? Siobhan McMan was quite right. I was not equal-ops at the same time as Siobhan McMan. We had a look at women in work. Recently, I was at the Afford campus new school within my constituency, and it is still undergoing construction. I was talking to one of the construction directors, and he was saying that he was pulling his hair out, because he is still requiring people to come into the construction industry. He is offering apprenticeships, and he said that he pulls his hair out. He goes to schools and he speaks to the young people, but he says that none of the girls want to come and work for him. It is not because he is not a nice guy or anything like that. It is because they just do not want to go into that construction industry. What I am saying, Presiding Officer, is that the jobs are there sometimes, the opportunities are there sometimes, but we need to ensure that the right technologies there or indeed the perceptions are not in the head so that people can go into the different types of jobs and then get away from the stereotyping that we seem to still have. Thank you. Many thanks. Well done. Now Colin Liz Smith. No, I beg your pardon, I do not. I call on Hans Alam Alec, after which we will move to the closing speeches. Thank you and good afternoon Presiding Officer. It is a pleasure to talk about Scottish apprenticeship week 2015, and I am glad to see that the target set for 20,000 modern apprenticeships starts each year is on target and may be exceeded this year. The young people involved see the programme as a positive experience with 98% saying that they found the programme useful. The role of Scottish apprenticeship week is to celebrate the success of the scheme, but we should also be able to reflect on the things that can be done better instead of only increasing the numbers of modern apprenticeships. We need to start looking at quality and equality. Talking about equality, I have been in discussions with Skills Development Scotland and they have informed me that the progress in modern apprenticeship starts from minority communities has risen from 1.1% to 1.4%. As I think minorities make up 6% of the population aged between 18 and 24, this is still a major underrepresentation. Analysts from the Coalition of Race Equality and Rights, C-R-E-R, from apprenticeships and training on 31st of March 2014, found that young persons from the ethnic minority background were 8 times less likely to be in a modern apprenticeship complex whilst compared to a Scottish white person. I welcome the creation of the key performance indications to increase the number of modern apprenticeship starts from the minority communities to equal the population share by 2021. However, this is a long-term target and I want to see evidence of the political will to achieve this target. I want to know what the Scottish Government has done in the next six months rather than in the next six years. Understand the Skills Development Scotland are bringing to work with Bemis, black and ethnic minority infrastructure in Scotland to increase participation in ethnic minorities. In my discussions with SDS, I raised my concerns that Bemis did not certainly have the capacity or the ability to deliver such a challenging target, especially on a Scottish white basis, and this is to do no disrespect to Bemis as an organisation. I'm not going to let this be a box-ticking exercise. I will not allow the Scottish Government to get away with giving some money to one organisation, one ethnic minority organisation, so that they feel that they've actually done something in this area. I don't want to see a few events around Scotland inviting the usual suspects from mosques and community organisations to eat and be talked to with no real engagement, no real change and no real outcomes. These symbolic SEMOSI events are no longer acceptable. I want to see the Government to be proactive. There is no point in just asking people to apply. What I need to see is support for ethnic minority people to get the skills that they want to apply for from apprenticeships—if I allow you to finish the sentence—to apply for apprenticeships, jobs, etc., in the first instance, and I will give it. I've listened carefully to Mr Malik's comments, and I understand that, while he's welcoming some things, he has some concerns and criticisms. I would like to hear from him one thing that he thinks, in concrete terms, we could be doing that we're not doing. One thing. I could give you so many. If the Presiding Officer gives me the time, I can be here all day giving you examples. Just to satisfy your appetite, I'll give you one thing that you can do. You can actually create an organisation which has a structure built, which actually speaks to the young minority community people to train them to be able to apply for jobs, to train them so they can go for interviews, to train them so they have the facilities to go for additional training for promotions. There are so many ethnic minority people unemployed. It's not real. The fact that 1.4 per cent out was a 6 per cent young population not getting places in apprenticeships is shameful. I can give you other targets. The police are running with 1 per cent employed or 6 per cent. The fire service is less than 1 per cent. Shall I go on? Is that enough? Let me try and help the Government, if I may. I want to see the Scottish Government proactive. I want the Government to give me initial targets. I want the Government to give me quarterly reports back to show me what ethnic minority people are actually doing and achieving from these organisations. I also want to see Scotland do better for its minority community. For example, there is no infrastructure in places like Aberdeen or Fife. Why not? Why are we not creating that? When is the Government actually going to do that? How long are we going to have these Pakora Samosa meetings and no results? I want to see results. Please, for God's sake, do something for the minority community, and that's what it's talking about. Thank you very much. Can I reiterate our support for the Scottish Government's motion and the priority, which I think is placed on this very important issue? I add my support to Maley Scanlan's amendment, which I think raises some very important additional issues and also the Labour amendment. I think that there are some very interesting discussions taking place in apprenticeship policy just now, both in the context of the changing economic and educational environment that the cabinet secretary referred to in her opening remarks, but also in the context of the analysis of the available data and how to measure the success to date of the modern apprenticeship programme, because I think that that's a very important aspect. That was very much the topic at the recent cross-party group on colleges and universities, which I think that it was very clear from many of those in the very front line of the provision of apprenticeships that there has to be a change of approach to ensure that there is a very qualitative dimension to apprenticeship programme, rather than just concentrating on the increase of numbers, and that was a point that I think that Ian Gray raised as well. Maley Scanlan quite rightly pointed to the achievement side of that. I think that that is a qualitative dimension. Nigel Don, I thought, made a very important point about the provision of the skills that are important to the actual demand within the economy, so I think that that's coming to the qualitative dimension rather than the numbers game. Tony Coltas a Dianne Greeneys of Skills Development Scotland, both argued that there has to be a much better deeper engagement between employers and learners, necessarily to ensure that they are much better prepared for the world of work, and they strongly argued that that has to take place at an earlier age. I noticed that that was something that Jim McCall said earlier this week. The general feeling was that the curriculum for excellence and the establishment of a new regional college structure were good things, but, again, it was pointed out that, when it comes to the larger colleges, one of the most important things that they can do is to ensure that they can deliver when it comes to the demand of that very specific local economy. If you listen to what college principals are saying just now, that's a point that they stressed. I think that there are a few question marks just around that. I think that assessments about the value of different levels of apprenticeship are very important, as is the assessment of the different skills-based learning that they entail on how to articulate with different schools, colleges and universities. I think that, generally speaking, it's a good picture. I think that there was great praise for the ambition to develop the 28th—28th—pathfinders across the five sectors by August 2015, and the fact that that will benefit obviously 28 cohorts of pupils, which matches the ambition to involve all local authorities, as I understand it, from the Scottish Government. I think that the target there is is August 2016, if I'm not mistaken. However, there are clearly examples, whether it's—well, at the cross-party group, it was West Lothian, Fife and the Forth Valley area, and they gave us a very strong indication of the success of local authorities working together with educational establishments and with business and industry. I think that they felt very strongly about the innovative aspect of that qualitative— Just to read the question— Sanna Cunningham? Overall of this, because there isn't time in one single debate about apprenticeships, but would the member accept also that the growth in the number of regional invest in young people groups, which will be specifically employer-led, will help to deal with some of the more localised regional employment issues that she is referring to? Liz Smith? Yes, I do accept that Cabinet Secretary, but I think that the point that's been made by two or three college principals is that they feel that the larger colleges obviously have to cover a much wider area, and they are very anxious to retain the individual aspects of their very specific local economies, particularly in areas that are to be removed from Edinburgh and Glasgow. I think that that point has been very well made. Naturally, they point to the fact that they are concerned about the level of college cuts to some of the courses that are particularly involved in the provision of some people who would be further removed from the workforce. I think that that's something that, as I say, it came through very strongly at the cross-party group. The point about disability has been very well mentioned by several members, by Siobhan McMahon, by Liam McArthur. Cabinet Secretary, I think that you were questioned on this by Gavin Brown in a debate just at the end of April. Not only do we have to address the gap between what's happening in Scotland and what's happening elsewhere, but exactly how that situation has arisen. I think that the other important issue that we can learn is about the lessons from abroad, because Iain Gray was quite correct when he said that there are different approaches in countries such as Germany and Denmark and Switzerland, because they have been flagged up by some employers as being very successful in the ability to deliver long-term sustainability when it comes to apprenticeship involvement, but it's also because of the cultural change. Overall, I think that this is very important. If I can just finish on the point that George Adam made about the real need to ensure that there is not a divide between vocational and academic training, they go together, and increasingly in the changing in nature of the economy and education, they have to be seen to complement each other. They are not separate, and the more we can do that, the more we will be able to get over what I think is a very unfortunate divide in Scotland at times where people do view them as different. As far as we are concerned, we are very happy to support the Scottish Government's motion and also the Labour amendment. Iain Gray-Pearson, seven minutes. I am pleased to report that I am in the very comfortable position of supporting the Government's motion, supporting Mary Scanlon's amendment and, of course, my colleague Siobhan MacMahon's amendment. Many members have responded this afternoon with their own family experience of a relative having gained access to an apprenticeship. I would add to that knowledge in sharing my own experience that, unfortunately, my father was never offered an apprenticeship. As a result, it was my own experience to view that his entire working life was hard, brutish and poorly paid. In that context, I applaud all the efforts of those who are involved in modern apprenticeships and apprenticeships of all types. I would therefore identify very strongly with the points made by Siobhan MacMahon and Hansel Amalek about the issues surrounding equality, fairness and access. Indeed, as Iain Gray outlined in his contribution in Scottish apprenticeship week, it is important that we realise the true worth of apprenticeships to our society and our future developments. I also acknowledge that Nigel Don further outlined the values that arise from the benefits that we gain from apprenticeships and the contribution that they make in later life, and other members have outlined more fully that experience. However, what can we look in the future to develop a better environment for our apprentices? The cabinet secretary mentioned that she encouraged employers. I know that, having gone around the south of Scotland and elsewhere in the country, employers—both medium-sized and larger employers—have indicated that they need a confidence to know that, when they take someone on as an apprentice, they will still be in business long enough to see that apprenticeship commitment fulfilled. In that regard, the cabinet secretary could spend some time looking at the way in which local procurement processes operate to the disadvantage of local companies. If they can see that they can compete more readily in obtaining contracts, we will see more apprentices being taken on. Equally, those same employers have shared their view that the notion that apprentices can be shared between companies in order to offer some form of support to young people, men and women, who seek to deliver on apprentices. Many employers resist that notion and feel that, by sharing apprentices, they will not deliver in terms of the quality of the experience and the breadth of knowledge that is required to develop apprentices for the future. They also raised the question about the preparation that they see evidence on young people coming forward to be considered for apprentices, particularly in the building engineering context. In that regard, the latest statistics in Scottish attainment revealing literacy, numeracy and performance measurements is a challenge. There needs to be more work done by Government to ensure that our young people are prepared for employment. Government has delivered an understandable focus on funding young apprenticeship opportunities for candidates. It is reported to me by employers that, as a result of that focus, funding goes primarily to people under the age of 21. Increasingly, it is being experienced within the employment environment that people over the age of 21 have developed a background where, in the vernacular, the penny has dropped and they want to contribute to working life and would seek to access apprenticeships. Unfortunately, the level of support and grant that might enable that is not present to the extent that it is for others. Much comment from small and large employers about the inability of those who come forward who have the skills but have not been developed not only in terms of their technical ability but that element of work, which is about selling ideas and selling product. There is a great deal said by employers that they need schools and education to pay attention to that notion of how one develops a character of future employees to play their full part in that regard. There is a real desire among employers for the Government to prepare our young people for work, not only in promoting the whole range of apprenticeship opportunities but particularly in regard to what was mentioned earlier in the debate about traditional apprenticeship opportunities, that in building and engineering we need to do more. The minister would do well to encourage employers to play their full part in mentoring within schools and offering work experience in order to encourage their involvement in developing employment opportunities for a young in the future. At the end of the debate, it has been acknowledged right throughout the chamber the importance of apprenticeships for the future. It is not only to ensure that those young people do not have the work experience that my own father had, but as importantly and probably more significant for many, Scotland needs our young people to participate fully in the employment environment. We need to develop our competitive edge in a fast-changing economy and a fast-changing world, to have any complacency in regard to how well we are currently doing. There is obviously much better that we could do to see a minister who has a hunger to acknowledge the shortcomings and a current service delivery and develop more strongly promotion for the future. That is what our Parliament would seek from our cabinet secretary and the minister in the year that lies ahead of us. I now call on Annabelle Ewing to wind up the debate on behalf of the Government. I think that the first thing that I should do is to move the amendment in the Government's name, which the cabinet secretary omitted to do, so I am happy to do that. It is fair to say that it has been a very positive and constructive debate this afternoon. I thank all members for their contributions. There are many suggestions in terms of broad brush suggestions or technical suggestions that have been made. Obviously, we always look closely at the debate afterwards, including with the officials, so we would be happy to pick up anything that seems to be a sensible way forward. I would perhaps also take this opportunity to say that we are happy today to support the Labour amendment. We will not be in a position to support the Conservative amendment—not really in terms of a difference in terms of substantive issues, but from a more technical perspective in terms of the way that the actual motion would read in the final analysis. It is clear that modern apprenticeships are vital to our ambitions to offer young people the opportunity to gain the skills that they need to take up rewarding and fulfilling jobs. At the same time, modern apprenticeships are also vital in delivering the skilled workforce that our employers need to secure long-term economic growth. Over the past three years, we have supported more than 77,000 modern apprenticeship starts, and I am proud of this Government's record of growing the programme since 2007. Our commitment to expanding the MA programme aligns with a wider reform of vocational education across the entire learning and skills landscape. I just made this claim again about expanding the programme. I pointed out the numbers to her that, if you compare light with light, the programme has not really expanded. I do not mean that it is a criticism, but I think that it is the reality from which we need to seek to move forward. Will she acknowledge that that is the case? Dean Gray made this point during his contribution that, in terms of the previous skills seekers programme at level 2, that was a non-employed programme. The level 2 modern apprenticeships, the people involved, are all employed, and that is the crucial difference. That is the key difference, and that is what we are talking about when we talk about the success of our modern apprenticeship programme. In terms of our refreshed youth employment strategy, the developing Scotland-shan workforce was published in December last year. We set out our ambition to improve the employment prospects for all our young people. Linking the needs of young people and the needs of our employers, as many members have raised today, is central to that seven-year change programme that will seek to remove the structural issues that led to the high levels of youth unemployment that we have seen in the past. However, we cannot deliver that on our own, rather we will continue to work with employers, training providers, local authorities, colleges and third sector organisations to deliver our ambitions for a 40 per cent reduction in youth unemployment by 2021. There have been a lot of discussion today, and quite rightly so, about equalities and how the MA programme is not currently working for certain groups of people. The Young Workforce Commission highlighted the underrepresentation impacts on the MA programme as it does across vocational education and indeed the wider labour market. Those are complex issues, and simply changing provision will not fully address the underlying issues with our labour market. However, I am sure that the funding that is announced today by the cabinet secretary to support the final development and implementation of a modern apprenticeship equalities action plan will indeed be welcomed, for we need to build a consensus on what all partners need to do to address the issues of underrepresentation across vocational education. Dennis Robertson I thank the minister for taking on intervention at this point. I certainly welcome the funding, and I am just wondering whether the minister would agree with me that perhaps in trying to address that equality circle to some extent, we look more closely to the education and careers advice and the opportunities that young people can have when they are leaving education into the field of work. Dennis Robertson For his intervention, I think that that is a very constructive intervention, and indeed it is certainly our intention and it is part of the approach of the Developing Scotland Young Workforce programme that we have much better information given to young people whilst they are at school about what the world of work entails for all young people, including those who may require particular support. We would wish to see that happening at a much earlier age, including in particular in primary school, as Serene Wood strongly recommended. However, I believe in broad brush that, from a structural perspective, which is what the background to our endeavours is, we are already starting to see a bit of success as regards the breaking down of the old distinctions between vocational and academic learning, a point that was forcefully made by many members this afternoon, including Ian Gray, in terms of the importance placed on education when he was growing up and that his father placed on education. That is a trait common to so many, many households across the length and breadth of Scotland, and it is incumbent on all of us to do what we can to continue to break down this long-standing distinction, bogus distinction, that somehow the vocational and the academic are in competition with each other, rather they are complementary to each other. We are committed to doing all that we can to make clear that the offer of a modern apprenticeship to a young person to getting a job and getting paid, whilst gaining an industry-recognised qualification, is both a win-win for the young person concerned, for the apprentice and it is indeed a win for the employer. This morning, I had the pleasure to visit CCG in Campus Lang, a construction manufacturing company. What struck me when I was speaking to many young apprentices was their enthusiasm to do a good job and their appreciation that they had been given an opportunity to gain the skills that they needed to start to make their way in the world of work, whilst, of course, important for them earning a wage at the same time. I would like to say in response to many of the important points that have been made this afternoon about gender segregation, that, among the excellent young people that I met this morning— Minister, just one moment, please. There is far too much noise in the chamber. Those who have just come into the chamber, could you please give the minister the courtesy of listening to her? Minister. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Amongst the excellent young people that I met this morning, I did promise to say this, so I am going to say it, there were Hannah Muir, a third-year apprentice plumber and Nadia Swift, a second-year apprentice plasterer, both proving the point very well that there are no such things anymore as boys' jobs or girls' jobs, and I wish both young women the best of luck with their future careers. I recognise that there is much more to do in tackling stereotyping of whatever kind, and I am hopeful that we are moving in the right direction. Picking up on a few other points that were made in today's debate, Siobhan McMahon raised the issue of the kind of delivery partners that it would be appropriate to work with. My view is that it would be important to work with a range of partners, which is what we are currently doing, to work with all those who have a role to play in ensuring that we do the best for our young people in ensuring that they have the opportunities that should be available to them. Mary Scanlon mentioned, again, the societal issues that we are facing in terms of gender segregation. I think that it is important to stress in that regard that the developing young workforce programme does focus on the promotion of a diverse workforce to young people, including, as I said at my opening remarks in primary schools. I am afraid that I have just got a very limited time, and I am afraid that I wish to get through a few other comments on this occasion. Gordon MacDonald highlighted the good work going on in his constituency in Edinburgh. George Adam, echoed by many speakers, including Nigel Don, emphasised the importance of ensuring that we have small business involved in the modern apprenticeship project. We are working with local authorities and small business to try to ensure that they have the information that they would need to decide whether they were in a position to take on a young apprentice. The regional investing young people groups will also have a role to play. Much has been made, Presiding Officer, of the position with respect to underrepresented groups. As I have said, the cabinet secretary's announcement of the intention to proceed with an equality action plan, I hope, will help to address the many real concerns of members this afternoon. I undertake that we will keep the chamber advised of the progress with respect to the equality action plan. With respect to Hanzala Malik's point about our determination to improve the position for black and minority ethnic communities, I would say gently to Mr Malik that we do work with a range of partners. We work with Bemis, but we work with other groups. I, myself, recently met Mr Davidson, who is a representative of the SDUC Black Workers Committee. We take that issue most seriously, and we are working to make the progress that we need to see in conclusion. I am very much looking forward to celebrating with other members the apprenticeship week. I hope that members will engage in the process and take the opportunity to see for themselves how modern apprenticeships are benefitting our young people. Given that we are all about to vote in this debate and amendments, the minister now explains the technical reason why the Government is unable to accept my amendment. I think that that would be helpful to all of us in the chamber. I say that it is entirely up to the Government whether or not they wish to accept the amendment. That does conclude that debate. We now move on to the next item of business, which is consideration of business motion 13119. In the name of Joe Fitzpatrick, on behalf of the parliamentary bureau sitting out a business programme, any member wishes to speak against the motion should press a request to speak but now. I call on Joe Fitzpatrick to move motion number 13119. No member has asked to speak against the motion, therefore I now put the question to the chamber. The question is that motion number 13119, in the name of Joe Fitzpatrick, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. The next item of business is consideration of two parliamentary bureau motions. I would ask Joe Fitzpatrick to move motion number 13118 on approval of an SSI and motion number 13117 on designation of a lead committee. These motions will put a decision time to which we now come. There are five questions to be put as a result of today's business. The first question is that amendment number 13112.3, in the name of Siobhan McMahon, which seeks to amend motion number 13112, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on Scottish Apprenticeship week, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The amendment is therefore agreed to. The next question is that amendment number 13112.2, in the name of Mary Scanlon, which seeks to amend motion number 13112, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on Scottish Apprenticeship week, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? Parliaments not agreed. We move to vote. Members should cast their votes now. The result of vote or amendment number 13112.2, in the name of Mary Scanlon, is as follows. Yes, 52. No, 61. There were no abstentions. The amendment is therefore not agreed to. The next question is that motion number 13112, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, is amended. On Scottish Apprenticeship week, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. The next question is that motion number 13118, in the name of Joffix Patrick, on approval for an SSI, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. The next question is that motion number 13117, in the name of Joffix Patrick, on designation of a lead committee, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. That concludes decision time. We now move to members' business. Members should leave the chamber, should do so quickly and quietly.