 Well, thanks again Jane, and thanks to Matt and Melanie and colleagues at RLUK for organizing, not just today, but what really is a wonderful series to host a dialogue around the future. There's a lot of discussion around the issues we're facing today. There's a lot of things that we've done in the past and how to improve those but I find that the digital shift forum is unique because it allows us to carve out time to step outside of our day jobs and think about how can things look differently in the future. And so I'm grateful for this opportunity and for the forum itself. My hope is to have a conversation about future proofing the research library. The term future proofing is one that I've sort of identified with to think about a verb that captures how to prepare for the unknown and how to prepare for uncertain events. It was sort of serendipitous that COVID-19 has sort of impacted us and caught us off guard in 2019 and March 2020. This now is forcing us to have a conversation about how to prepare for the future. And I hope to share some of the findings from conversations that we've had with libraries around the world over the past three years. And this all ends on how all of this impacts our talent strategy. The people are in my view and many others, the most important asset and contribution to our entire organization. And to have a strategy that considers how do our priorities and our budgets and our initiatives and strategic directions support preparing our people for 2030 and of course beyond. So without further ado allow me to begin with a short background on myself for those I haven't met. My career began in 2007 after graduating college. I immediately moved to Silicon Valley, where I worked in the software industry, and specifically Mountain View, California. And it was while there, I met colleagues at Ex Libris who recruited me to move to Boston. 2010 was when I first became aware of the global library industry. I had used the library as a patron but never considered that there was such a rich and robust ecosystem of research institutions and suppliers and vendors. Ever since then, I've been enamored with the work that we do. And despite many opportunities to leave. I always find new inspiration to stick with libraries and figure out ways to help them accomplish their their mission. And two years later I was still at Ex Libris but I began on the side working on a startup called apply for calm. This was a project that received funding from the Gates Foundation to help college admissions departments increase their yield and improve the number of students that are matriculating into their their college. And so this is my first endeavor at entrepreneurship. That was in 2012. At that I joined Epsco and also moved home to my hometown, which is New Orleans, Louisiana. And in the role at Epsco I was responsible for working with Epsco libraries that wanted to surface the content and databases inside of third party systems. And this was a pretty complex endeavor to make sure that the resources you were paying for were able to be accessed in systems that Epsco didn't own. This was a way for me to travel and start to see just how vast the library world was I had clients in 30 countries, and met many of you during this time. And this also was when I realized that despite the diversity of research libraries around the world. There are also some through lines and some common denominators despite our size or which country or locale we're in. There are things we have in common. During this time was when I got the inspiration to start thinking about a specific problem that based on conversations was unaddressed. And that problem is managing people in a modern library. And it was really a conversation that began with about nine libraries to ask ourselves how can we prepare for the future with regard to talent management. How do we rethink the way we recruit people to have a more diverse organization. How do we retain professionals that are expecting better service and better support from us as an employer, and even succession planning, which we'll talk about in a moment. And so it was during this research and development season where I left Epsco and connected with the Dean of Libraries at Boston University Libraries Dr. K. Matthew Dames, who has since moved on to the University of Notre Dame. But I became an entrepreneur in residence at Boston University Libraries this was the first role of that kind. This was a special opportunity for me because I've always wanted to work in libraries, but never quite knew how I could contribute or add value. And this was a time right before the pandemic began where Dr. Dames and his leadership was looking to rethink the way that they managed talent. This was on the heels of them receiving a Mellon grant for professional development and leadership development. And this two year period from 2019 to April 2021 probably was the most formative part of my career working in libraries. Once the pandemic hit here in the States which were on the same time as everywhere else. That's when the libraries we were working with during that research and development phase. It was really clear that they wanted us to launch the software that we created, which now today is known as skill type. So, today, what I'd like to share is some of the observations and learnings that really motivated us to focus on this, this problem, and it overall does give us a lot of optimism about the future for libraries. I hope that towards the end of this conversation, we can have a dialogue about what experiences you've had and whether the trends that we're seeing are you seeing things differently in your organizations. So, preparing for this talk and specifically the digital shift forum I didn't want to sort of rehash things that I've shared elsewhere. The digital shift as I mentioned at the outset is unique in the forums remit. And I started to think about the different contributors that lead us to the moment that we're in right now. From my estimation, there are several. We are all aware that from a collections perspective that the library has already undergone a shift from print to digital. I'm working with a library now in Louisiana that will become the first fully digital library here in our state. And that's becoming more and more the case where we're getting rid of the books. We are freeing up that real estate to facilitate better services to patrons and researchers. And so this shift has been well underway but it's certainly a contributor to the new skills that people need to operate in the library. Another is with regard to the software that we use. Right when I started my career in libraries 2008, the software was on premise. The customers we were working with using X Libris Aleph for example, they hosted those services. Whereas today I don't know if you'll be able to find a software product that you can host on your own if it isn't open source. But most of those vendor services are all in the cloud and this transition also contributes to the skills that we need to run the library. We no longer need systems librarians to keep servers up as much as we need people who are able to work with the vendor that are supporting that cloud based service. Another example is on spending how we've successfully transitioned from owning all of the materials and resources we collect in the library to subscribing to many of them, with the exception of rare books and special collections of course, but this transition also contributes to the types of skills that are needed. Today are quite different from those before this shift occurred. We're talking about reference and how just during the pandemic, many of our colleagues were trained in reference to support patrons walking right up to the desk. Whereas, we've seen that references now either 100% virtual and maybe now starting to get back to some hybrid in person but the skills that are required of a librarian to support patrons virtually or operate a chat bot are then the ones supporting reference in person. The services that we're providing are shifting and evolving into more research focused services. Many of our universities have an office of research. When my parents were going to college and university, there was no office of research. So this is a new set of skills in the library that one generation ago wasn't there at all. And so this too helps to contribute to how the org chart and the skills needed in the library is evolving. We can go on and on the budget is now shifting away from libraries to new offices on campus that didn't exist. The library existed. We think about the office of it and CIO, and also the vice provost for research, right these roles and budgets and offices are new and came after libraries did, and with the shift of that budget requires new skills in the library to have partnerships with these units on campus and now we see libraries preparing to partner and have strategic partnerships type of skills and these skills aren't taught in library school these skills are oftentimes learned on the job or picked up for people who study to receive an MBA perhaps, but these partnerships skills are ones that are becoming more important for the library as well. There are a few more here, even though I'm certain you're getting the point that the library and the skills that it utilizes today are quite different from one generation ago. This one deals with how the power dynamic has changed from our parent institutions to commercial vendors, and there's many great thought leaders and researchers that are dealing with this exact topic. In terms of the consolidation of the publishing industry and the impact that has with the power dynamic. This requires us to have a new skill set in the libraries in terms of vendor relations and negotiations to make sure that the contracts we sign are ones that are in the interest of our, our library and our unit but also our parent institution. Succession planning. This is something that a colleague here in Baton Rouge Louisiana Stanley Wilder has done much research on the this idea that the retirements that take place in our industry. Normally have these five year cycles and with the economic downturn in 2009 that normal cycle paused. This idea of quote unquote delayed retirements has created a bubble where people who were supposed to retire haven't, and that then trickles down in terms of the number of openings that we are expecting to have our fewer. But we're also working with colleagues having to reimagine the contributions they make during a time when the skills that they accrued are no longer as heavily utilized as they were when they first joined. And lastly, definitely not least important, the demographic shift, the patrons that we're serving today are literally nothing like the ones that we served a year ago I'm a millennial generation why. And now we're catering to Generation Z. These are born digital natives people who ever since they were born they have had access to touch screens, and their expectations of coming to the library are quite different. And this to impacts the services that we provide in the skills we need to develop. Meanwhile, the demand for these new sets of expertise far outpaces the supply. And this is due to a few reasons. Our colleagues who are administering the information science programs around the world are struggling to adapt and keep up with the pace and rate of change. This is the presentation last two years ago at the Charleston conference here in the States where I learned that to adjust the curriculum for an iSchool course, and to get a new course added into a curriculum get that course officially approved at this one iSchool it could take up to 13 different approvals and votes and steps from various committees around the university, just to add a new course to an iSchool curriculum. Maybe less at other iSchools perhaps this was an outlier example but it just opened my eyes to how that model of creating the curricula that librarians need to serve in libraries wherever they work as employment was designed during a time when the rate of change was not as great. Another example we've referred to a few seconds ago has to do with the delayed retirement bubble and how the number of openings that we were expecting to have in our organizations doesn't match with the reality. And lastly, the training providers around the world, and I'm referring to conference organizers I'm referring to professional associations, even commercial vendors that produce training for their products and services. These groups currently view libraries as funders they view libraries as a revenue stream. They don't currently view libraries as employers that have needs in terms of skill development that the programming should be in response to. And I'll give you just a brief anecdote conferences have calls for proposals that are open calls a theme for the conferences decided by a volunteer committee of volunteers and members in the organization. And once those proposals come in. Those are reviewed by these oftentimes volunteer workers. And there's a several month lag between the time the proposal is submitted to the time the proposal is delivered. And during that time, the material that was submitted is very likely to be outdated. We're dealing with presentations and trainings that are with regard to the pandemic and how new information has been flying our way with regard to how to respond to COVID-19. Just as one example. So, training providers currently don't have a mechanism or a culture of checking in with libraries as an employer to say, do you need a particular set of skills that you're currently missing. Perhaps we can structure this conference around training and developing that set of expertise. That's not currently the culture to put a fine point on this. Take a look at the number of competencies that since 2010 are brand new. In other words, if there was a set of competencies that libraries needed before 2010, it didn't include any of these. These are all fairly new. From 2007 or eight moving forward. And if the high school that we attended, we went to school prior to this, these are for the most part skills that we have to learn on the job. We have to find alternative means of acquiring expertise in these areas. And this is just from again, I'm using 2010 as a round date, but 2006 or seven or so is when the first e-resource management system was developed, which was a system called Verde managed by Ex Libris, but didn't wind up moving from development partner phase into a commercial phase. But that was around the time when this new wave of skills and competencies started to come to be. That doesn't keep in mind the new tools that were also created because tools also require expertise. We also have to operate these products, depending on our role, which requires us to learn them and read the documentation and study, keep up with the new versions and updates to the product. Again, continuing to add on to the responsibility of managers and supervisors to make sure that our teams have these expertise. We're still from 2010 and on. And so it sort of asks the question, if there continues to be this rate of change, how are we rethinking the way we acquire these skills moving forward. One more example of emerging competencies that are on the horizon now that may not be a part of our periphery today, but if we give ourselves five years or three or five years. And I'm certain that many of these, if they aren't already in your organizations are going to be skills that you're going to have to train for and recruit for. There are sort of standout libraries, many of you probably on today's webinar that are already thinking ahead in this area, but we can agree. I think that that's not the case for the average library, the average library for obvious reasons is bogged down with a number of austerity measures and staffing deficits that simply don't enable them to focus on the future as much as putting out fires today. The ones around the corner are a new world of of skills that our patrons will be expecting us to be knowledgeable of. Also grant funders will be incentivizing us to be responsible for. And there's a few examples I want to provide in terms of real life implications of some of these emerging competencies in preparation for today, I decided to stop putting off a deep dive into the whole world of cryptocurrency. Specifically, also the blockchain and non fungible tokens or NFTs which we've probably seen the craze about. And at first I didn't think that there was a relationship between these buzzwords and trends and the services that we're expected to provide to patrons and researchers but if you just engage with me for a thought experiment you'll see quickly that there actually are. And, for example, these non fungible tokens or these NFTs are making possible for the first time us to attribute ownership to digital objects with great transparency security and verification. And someone in our organization should be thinking about whether this plays a role in special collections as we digitize our special collections and we seek to make available and accessible various rare books and manuscripts. These are the ways for this new technology to help further our goals. Are there ways for libraries to earn revenue from this new technology. I don't have the answers to these questions this is simply food for thought and an example of how things are changing so rapidly. And it's worth it for us to engage in these conversations. There are many libraries. While it's still not the norm, who are engaging in augmented reality virtual reality. We just saw an announcement from Facebook about these new Ray ban glasses that allow them to project and sort of have a digital experience as I'm moving around. We hear a lot about the surveillance problems and the privacy implications of these technologies. But if we think for a moment about the patrons that we're going to be serving in five years, who this is all they've ever known. And as they're walking around the physical space in the library. Are we able to create a digital experience for them, simply by them having on a pair of sunglasses, and how can we bring the wealth of our collections that are already hosted in the cloud into a virtual or augmented experience for patrons. Blockchain is a fascinating technology that a few colleagues are already researching I'm thinking of Sandy Hirsch at the San Jose State iSchool who's published on this. Michael meth, who is now the dean of libraries at San Jose State wrote a book on this as well in terms of blockchain for libraries, but the blockchain is a digital distributed ledger. That can retain the knowledge of a contract that multiple parties can sign and we can verify this. Without much dispute and the smart contracts can have many different traits that allow them to be automatically implemented at the point of the transaction. I think this is quite amazing for the patron privacy conversation that all of us are passionate about. And the light bulb moment went off for me when I downloaded my first cryptocurrency wallet, and I was looking for the moment when the wallet was going to ask me for my name. The wallet was going to ask me for my email address or something. It never did. This digital wallet is something that I'm just using now, and the assets that I'm able to put into that wallet, whether it's an NFT or an Ethereum name service address. They have no idea that I'm Tony zanders, but it is verifiable on the blockchain that I own these assets. And it's a fascinating example of how this buzzword, which seems irrelevant to our mission, could possibly be a silver bullet for the privacy conundrum we're in with vendors, because vendors are asking for more information from patrons in order to provide personalized services. But perhaps we can do that without even engaging or maintaining personally identifiable information. Again, I don't know the answers here, but this is just food for thought. And lastly, should libraries on board researchers to this idea of NFTs to help redistribute power from publishers. And here is the non fungible token or an NFT, which is an object on the blockchain can be any digital asset. If you were to go to a website right now called open C se a dot IO, you can create an account on open C, which is an NFT marketplace. Any of us can start uploading digital assets, whether it's PDFs J pegs as NFTs, and it will turn this PDF into a non fungible token on the blockchain with a unique address, and we can then use that unique address to transact and provide access. And is this going to play a role in helping to rethink the power dynamic between researchers and and the publishing community. I don't know, we're still in early days but these are the conversations that that I believe we should be having in new skills, librarians should have and library workers should have as we provide services to our communities. So, I want to segue towards the end here and sort of bring us back down from the clouds to acknowledge that we're not out of the woods yet with regard to the pandemic. I was doing some research and came across the House of Commons library paper on the financial impact that COVID-19 is having on higher ed sector in UK, and several things were made clear for those who've read this report but we're very much so still in the woods with regard to the austerity measures and budgetary uncertainty, not just in the UK but but but globally. Everyone will be continuing to seek ways to consolidate operations to improve collaboration, which I believe is a great opportunity for groups like RL UK to really shine and make an impact far beyond that which it's already made. And there's also a clear call for an increase in research and development, an increase in experimentation and improving the support of that research which to me just really highlights the role of the library being well suited for the future. I also came across a report from the publishing community in the UK which just sort of offered another glimpse of how the publishing community is preparing for the next 10 years and what we can learn from that as we train up for new skills. And this one takeaway here was that the publishing community is seeking to identify more opportunities for digital delivery, more efficient systems, and also greater collaboration again so different part of the broader ecosystem we have our government and funders, we have our publishers, but they're saying the same thing greater collaboration among the community. Number two which stood out to me from this industry update delivery mechanisms need to be adapted to ensure the right offerings are produced. When I think about libraries and training providers. Right now there is no shortage of training resources there's no shortage of webinars that are being had. The question is how do we present the right training or the right skill development opportunity to the right worker at the right time. The delivery mechanisms of the call for proposals, and then we host all of the trainings behind one website. Well, there's thousands of websites, which have thousands of passwords, and a busy professional doesn't have time to navigate each of those to find the right training and work on a particular skill. So the delivery mechanisms do need to be adapted to ensure the right offerings are produced. And lastly, from their estimation in the publishing community leadership is required to accommodate adaptive and flexible remote work. This doesn't always apply to institutions that need to be physically present to serve their their communities. Number two was something that we're currently experiencing right now in the in the library side. And we will be moving forward. We're not yet out of the woods on this front either. As I wrap up, I want to point to what I would describe as some glimmers of hope. Many are having conversations around this right now and one of the sort of encouraging insights that I've come across was the number of libraries that are prioritizing employee development talent development talent management as a part of the strategic plan. That's certainly not the norm, and it's not yet even average, but this, I'll share a link to this and some follow up materials if you're interested but this screenshot is of a tweet thread, where I identified about 32 research libraries that are prioritizing development and staff development skill development as a strategic direction, because none of this will be solved. We won't make progress on any of this, unless institutions and library leadership teams make this a priority and name this as a goal. So it was encouraging to see that libraries are starting to do this more and more. 10 years ago, I don't imagine many libraries had staff development or skill development as a strategic direction. But things are changing. And this is something to be optimistic about. And also, there are national dialogues that are being had, not everywhere. And some are behind others but the fact that we're convening to discuss this today, again, is a huge step in the right direction, because it's hard for us to prepare for something that we haven't discussed as a community, not just here in the UK but you have groups like clear in the US with the leading change Institute. Right before the pandemic began, my last flight was to Australia to present at the Vala conference there but also to attend a pre conference held by a group called call on this digital dexterity program. This was a wonderful conversation before we even knew COVID would change our world about how do we solve the digital skills gap. And there's a robust national dialogue taking place in Australia, where each library has appointed digital dexterity champions. And these are ambassadors at the library, advocating and supporting these types of conversations. And so this too is a glimmer of hope. And then lastly, there are smaller initiatives, not necessarily national in scope, but various grants have been awarded various research is being performed around the world. It's definitely around skill development and how do we develop a talent strategy that is more collaborative and that responds to a lot of the trends we're observing. And I'm happy to provide links citations for for any and all this this material. The last sort of slide here before we open things up are just sort of distilling these things down into some lessons that we've sort of taken to heart and use as we've built out our community and also the skill type software platform, which is that any successful effort as a library community to prepare for volatility or prepare for the uncertain future must follow these six traits and in our opinion. The first is that it has to be community driven. There are so many different local contexts and constraints that there won't be a one size fits all solution. And we have to create mechanism and culture of allowing community input or library input into these these solutions. Number two is that it has to be privacy centric there is very strong. There is a concern to the response to modern technology. We see how large technology companies go unchecked and abuse their their power and authority by either selling third party data or violating people's right to privacy. So this in turn creates general skepticism towards the role technology can play. What we found is that the solution is to have a very clear and privacy centric approach, where everyone is aware of what happens to their data and they're able to opt in and opt out accordingly. Basically following principles like that of the GDPR in the EU. We also believe that automation will be required. We simply don't have enough resources enough people to keep up with the pace of change. The new skills that are being developed. We will have to leverage technology and automate some of the things that usually take a large amount of time to accomplish. We still need to have a global reach our local supply of talent and skills and expertise aren't sufficient anymore and I was encouraged to discover that here at our L UK. You're already thinking in this direction to develop partnerships with various organizations around the world, like clear and others to facilitate this conversation. We collaborate better to do this we will need to think globally in our approach. Fifth, we will have to leverage economies of scale. The more institutions and people behind an initiative. It's just going to drive the cost down for everyone which leads to the sixth, which is that our costs will need to remain predictable. This is a longer and a budgetary scenario where we can sustain the impact of unpredictable costs and so these are just six of the things that we've learned and identified and I'm thankful for the time and attention you've given so far and curious to see what thoughts you have about this in your in your local context. Tony, I'm afraid you've left me with great anxiety. I like concerns me actually that we're not moving quick enough in libraries to pick up on some of those competencies that you listed in your presentation. You know, 10 years ago we were way ahead but I think we've got but I feel that we've got bogged down and covered hasn't helped. So I have, I know three questions that I need to relay to you. And there may be somebody who wants to come and join us but I'll start with the questions. So the first one I think sort of leads on to from what I was just saying, which is about how much is the way forward about it. How much is the way forward about upscaling those working in libraries, and how much is it about bringing non library folk in with relevant skills into the library workplace. This is a great question that I personally know library directors who use this mental model to build out their strategy. The work of the library is more now than ever touching several adjacent units on campus. Yeah, and the expertise we need might not be 100% library and information science focus any longer it might only be 30% LIS, and about 70% it or 6040 data in research data. Or other combinations. There's a term all to act or or alternative academic, the nickname all to act, which are dealing with those who have PhDs. Those who are seeking to gain employment outside of the area of their PhD, and they are very interested in working in libraries to utilize their experience as a researcher and as an author, as a grant writer, but to use those for the mission of the library. I think it's going to be a balance of both both upscaling those in the library and recruiting outside. I don't believe we'll have the luxury to pick one or the other. Okay, so I'll ask an additional question to that which is around recruitment. How then, and this is from my my personal experience how to reach those outside of the library sector if you feel that they might have the skills within, you know to bring into a library, how to actually reach them how to recruit them. Yeah, so the this, this varies depending on the institution you're in because the area of personnel and human resources is extremely heavily regulated. I'm referring to the the actual position description the job posting and the rigid format that the document in order to be approved in compliance that document oftentimes has to use outdated language and for compliance purposes. And I'm not saying that it's wrong but it is something to consider the people that we could be recruiting from outside may not use the same language that is in the listing or the job posting and I personally have experienced getting frustrated, trying to break the position out of this rigid formula in order to communicate effectively to a potential candidate and so I think this will just require us to get creative to put on our marketing hats and use some of the tools that we see larger brands around society using to engage with their audiences. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay, so something completely different are there any digital tools platforms or services that are popular now that in your view will decline in the future. This is a great question. Yeah. You know, I'm gonna just say I don't know. The stimuli that I've been digesting has been really keeping up with how much we need to to the gap we need to close. Yeah. Reach out to that 17 year old or that 18 year old who just stepped foot on campus and I'm gonna sort of punt this question, but I promise I will think about it and I'll reply probably on social media on Twitter because I think it's a great question we we need to consider are there areas that may not be the best use of our limited investment in terms of skills. Yeah. Yeah. And if anybody's got anything in terms what they what they think and they could pop that into chat as well there's quite a lot of nice stuff going through to chat. Okay. So, it's quite specific. It's about your NFTs. What's the relationship between NFTs and persistent identifiers. And I refers to the NFTs are persistent identifier on steroids question mark. So, each NFT has its own persistent identifier of its of its own. And so on a surface level, I could see the way that blockchain works, being an alternative for PIDs. The NFT is just the ask the digital asset itself but that digital asset has its own persistent identifier that is is transparent. You can verify it, you can go to a website called ether scan, and you can search every transaction on the Ethereum blockchain globally in real time. So, this is a pretty rapidly evolving space that today is catering mostly to software developers and software engineers. The main problem is that they haven't sort of helped non software developers and non blockchain engineers. Imagine how we can apply this technology to non technical use cases and this is something that that I'm advocating for in my circles is to incorporate us into the conversation. But I have a bias to action. I'm not going to wait for that to happen. I'd like for us to start our own conversation and not wait and ask ourselves the question. Are NFTs and blockchain a replacement for these persistent identifiers? Do they solve some of the issues that they face? I'm not the expert here. I'm curious to see what thoughts people have, but I'm confident this should be a part of our dialogue as a community. Okay, you've certainly got interest. Paula is asking she's she's wanting to know more about how NFTs can support special collections. So that's going into a little bit more detail. Sure. I purchased my first NFTs this month I tried to share what that experience was and I just got so excited about the potential of our special collections that are in the process of being digitized. And the ability we could potentially have to add a monetary value that can be driven by the market on these assets. So if you follow what the fine art community is doing with NFTs, think about auction houses like Sotheby's and others and how you have these JPEG files that are selling for $65 million and $2 million. These are just digital assets. These are JPEGs, but they allow the market to determine the rarity and the demand and value of that asset. Now, some of that on the surface may seem counter to the values of the library, because some of that sort of free market thinking but there could be a balance, especially during a time when as libraries we're trying to think about how can we move away from being a cost center in our university to creating our own streams of revenue right so these conversations should be held together. As we're thinking about how to generate revenue from the library and provide services that can be paid for. And the role NFTs can play in helping us to monetize digital assets that are under our ownership. David Prost was just posted something that's what the British Museum is doing with NFTs. Okay, we've got a couple more minutes. I just wanted to do this. There's two things, if there's something else comes up. There's a bit on the chat about salaries, particularly when you're looking at the digital side of things. Libraries maybe don't pay the right salary to attract brilliant people who are currently in the sector. So, you know, for example, software engineers don't really have a good reason to stay employed in the library I don't know if that's the same in the US but it certainly isn't in the UK. And that's quite an issue. It is. I think this will. My immediate response here is something that we worked on while at Boston University, which is, you know, I'm assuming most of us on today's call are in the university or the academic environment. And one of the unique assets we have is the rich student population and the skills that they bring to the table. And if you just to marry these conversations, many of the most successful and experienced people in cryptocurrency today are between the ages of 17 years old and 27 years old. And so that is our university demographic. This is the demographic of our undergraduate programs in our graduate schools. And as of today, they are leading the innovation they're leading the development of these new technologies. And as a library I believe we have the ability to host and facilitate various types of events, whether it be hackathons or programs that will leverage the talent we have on campus. Because they're studying they don't have the same financial requirements as our, they're sort of, you know, adult and other professional counterparts. But if we could sort of rethink the role of student work and student success. There's an interesting opportunity because these students are looking for real world experience right that while they have been tinkering as a hobby on the side. These are real world projects that the library has to solve that they can add to their resume, which can help be a springboard to find employment later I think that's a unique competitive advantage of the of the academic environment. Yeah, yeah. Great. Lovely Tony. I, we're going to have to wrap things up. We've got one final question here which I don't know if you want to just do a very quick call to arms. So it's really are we moving quickly enough is there danger libraries are becoming irrelevant I think I might have started the conversation like that so just with it we've got about a minute left. So, yes, there is a very clear and certain danger that libraries and librarians are becoming are on the verge of becoming obsolete. We're only one generation away from an entire student population of students that will never have stepped foot into a library. And, however, the reason I'm in this work and I'm committed for the rest of my career is because I'm optimistic that if we can respond to change the way libraries have always responded to change. There has always been a culture of innovation and moving forward, but we have to focus and prioritize conversations like this on a more regular basis. We need to have roles in our organization that are solely responsible for preparing us for the future. We have to shift from a reactive mode to a proactive mode. Maybe it's a committee in the library that is thinking about the future, but it's not too late in my estimation I think this will be the decade that determines the future of the, the library profession, which is why I'm very excited about these conversations.