 Do my usual thread as tell them I'll move the whole back into the front Whenever you're ready Okay, good evening and welcome to the Essex Select Board meeting for Monday, September 23rd 2019 Please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all I am going to ask for some rearranging on the agenda But before we do that Greg, are there any additions or changes other than that two items that go with item 5a the public hearing on the grant application for recovery housing one is a response from Champlain Housing Trust about the possibility of phasing and then there's another response from police chief Rick Rick gary in response to that response, okay, so both of them are related to item 6b 5a or 6 5a or 6b Okay So on the agenda, we've noted that the public hearing starts at 730 So I Well, I'm getting ready to make an additional change to the agenda. That's why I'm still talking so We have half an hour between now and then and I think we might be able to accomplish all of our business items between now And then so with the board's Approval I'd like to recommend that we move business items 6a and b Consent agenda item 7 and The reading file item 8 to come after item 4a Or as far as we can get through them before the hearing begins Andy 6b approval of what we're going to discuss in 5a. Excuse me. You're absolutely right 6a only Leaving 6b to happen after the public hearing Does that sound okay to everybody? Would anyone like to make that motion? I've got another oh, okay change. I'd like to the The minutes for the joint meeting of September 16th. There's a substantive change I'd like to to make so I'd like to pull that out for sure you out of the consent agenda So we'll move the minutes for September 16th to item 6c Okay So let me restate the changes any further changes to the agenda So we're going to move items 6a and c Item 7 and item 8 to come after item 4a. Is that accurate? Okay Would anyone like to approve that as a motion so moved? Can there be a second second any further discussion? All those in favor, please signify by saying aye Aye Opposed Thank you for making the agenda additions and changes Okay The next section of our agenda is the public to be heard This is for Anybody in the audience who is looking to speak on a topic that is not on tonight's agenda Is there anybody here who has anything to talk to the board about that is not on the agenda tonight? Irene Every one of you has your own personal reason for running for public office Several folks. I know have said they ran for office to make a difference Today, I'm asking you To make that difference Consider taking a different path to resolving the issues that have played the town of Essex and village of Essex Junction for decades We've been trying to formally merge our already nested communities since 1958 Tonight, I'm asking each of you to consider saying enough to the idea of merger Let me repeat that I'm asking you each to consider saying enough to the idea of merger And it's not because I think you can't convince enough people to vote for it By throwing enough money at this issue and misrepresenting the actual cost and benefits I think you may very well get a slight majority of people to vote yes next November But I would ask you not to settle for that Whether it passes or fails at the polls merger will never satisfy the majority of residents needs and desires And the fallout will be permanent Because merger doesn't address the fundamental structural problems in our current taxation representation access identity and transparency issues Essex can keep spending time and money toward forcing merger to happen But we will never make a difference here until we start to think outside the merger box In fact, we have other better options staring us in the face Ken Signorello here has proposed a simple plan to resolve those issues and more as Counter-intuitive as it might sound separation with sharing Promises to be much more successful both at the polls and in reality. I Understand well the not invented here culture that permeates this organization Because I've worked inside and outside of it for more than 14 years now and I can vouch that those who ask the hard questions Dare to buck this trend. I've seen far more so more success than those who go along to get along Not personal success perhaps the success in making our government better And isn't that why you're here? Thank you. Is there anyone else who has business that is not on the agenda? Okay, we will continue So our first order of business on our new organized agenda is a presentation From Charlie Baker of the system the Chittenden County Regional Planning Commission. Welcome, Charlie. Thank you very much And hey Charlie Sarah's not going to be here so you could just move her name plate over Not take Sarah's job for sure Thank you And I believe our report got into the packet so I Will kind of walk through this pretty briefly And happy to answer any questions will stop me along the way For some of you may not have heard too much about the Regional Planning Commission yet But the Regional Planning Commission is a governmental agency made up of the municipalities Our board has all the municipalities have a seat as well as some other seats for transportation interest primarily We are really a public sector Almost like a consulting agency. We work under performance agreements with the state and Municipalities we really don't have much general revenue other than your dues And those dues we leverage About half a million dollars of local funds to bring in about another five million dollars of federal and state funds into the region At the bottom of the first page you see also your representatives In FY 19 it was Jeff Carr as your rep who actually surprised isn't here And last year Irene and Dennis lots is on the tack so Those are your reps last year on the second page We talked about more specific things we did in the town last year Things such as energy planning working on sidewalk scoping stormwater projects emergency management Traffic counts and things happen to answer any questions or we get feedback. Yes. I should have said this is also really a customer service calling providing services to the town, so This is a good time to let me know how that went Good or bad Charlie when you're speaking would you for the benefit of our new members and for the audience? Just very briefly touch on what the tip is Sure on the third page It's a transportation improvement program And so this is a federally required document that lists the projects the transportation projects that get federal transportation funds in Chittenden County and The one power we have granted to us from the federal government as a metropolitan planning organization is that v-trans cannot spend Federal dollars on a project without it being approved by the CCRPC So it's not a negative power We'd have to take a project out if we didn't want it to happen But that's really rooted in interstate projects from the 60s right municipalities didn't have much say in how DOTs made decisions and so we now have things like the CCRPC where we do have a say And in the tip in right now you can see you have a quite I think the longest list I've seen for any town list of projects in the tip and We talked about the tip in Chittenden County this these projects and this funding and schedule is also mirrored in the capital Program that the state has so they kind of work together So I don't know if you had any more questions about that. I Know it's a useful List it's it's very useful to get familiar with the tip because when that neighbor stops you in Hanna-Fords and asks When is that thing happening? You can say oh actually it's scheduled for 2022. It's really helpful Don't take those dates to the bank That's true. It can it can move a little bit at that point On the fourth page, there's a little section that talks about the 2020 our work program And so in that little box there are the couple things that we're doing for you this fiscal year Focus on stormwater inspection and also a tangle of drive shared use path and stormwater scoping And then the next couple pages talk about different regional things that we do without being specific to any one single town things like just continuing to monitor Implementation of our regional plan which we've branded Eco's so if you heard the Eco's plan That's our regional plan a legislative forum Building homes together you may have seen a little press on that last month public health energy planning Clean water stormwater issues, and I'm kind of going quickly through these things elderly and disabled transit services Biking walking Traffic counts the one big study transportation study. We've started up recently as a 89 study This is and I was just saying to one of your state reps You know we spent quite a few years here talking about the CERC alternatives a few years ago And of course the CERC Was going to Give people a way to bypass the congestion. That's around exit 14 So we did came up with that long list of all those CERC alternative projects Which we're having an update from vTrans at our board meeting in October So let us let me know if you're be interested in vTrans giving you an update also as to the status of those projects But all the CERC alternatives didn't really do anything to address the core issue at exit 14 And so we're kind of going back to look at what to do with 89 particularly around 14 And what needs to happen there in the long term? so anyway just Kind of dove in a couple places any questions on any of those things Yes, you get specific sure Charlie last time you were here I asked this question to it's about Vermont 15 and the Sandhill road intersection Just this past week. There was a Pretty nasty Accident there and I I go through there a lot and I see a lot of near accidents happening there It's listed to begin in 2021 and last time I asked if there's any chance to bring that in a little bit But now I see the roof 15 was just paved there and to do this they're gonna have to dig that up again, I presume so Would have been nice to be able to have that somehow better coordinated But is there a chance to bring that forward at all? Again, I see a lot of near and I'm sure you have a big priority, you know a system to do it, but I'm Throw that out and really a better question for vTrans so I can relay that If you'd like to you know, I think that was I don't know if it was that one of the circle turner of projects Yeah, check back on that But I also wanted it to say that it's an impressive list of projects and programs that your Organization works on to better our community. So I wanted to thank you for taking on that huge role that you do Um Charlie nice to meet you. I Was wondering Since I'm new on the board if you could talk a little bit about something I read as I was going through the packing information specifically about affordable housing and there was a you know We're been there about your plan than a number of homes that were being built But specifically that you were falling short of your goals for affordable housing Which has almost universally been something that you know We've heard certainly from people in town and then you know is is a sort of a constant refrain certainly in the region that affordable housing is is you know Needed more than ever. So what might be some of the reasons why you're not on track to? Kind of meet where you would like to be for affordable housing. Is there anything that can be done to? You know sort of a push Pushed out a little bit. I just you know for something that is clearly such a need It does seem to be that every time I hear about a possible affordable housing project It ends up not coming through or you know, it just you know, maybe is not as impactful as we would want it to be Yeah, well, I think let me address that point first You know, I often refer to the housing market in Cheney County is being broken So and it's been broken for a long time Our vacancy rate is way too low and we're not at a healthy housing market, right? And I mean you hear stories about it whether it's people You know a company trying to hire somebody who's moving here that says oh geez my salary and housing costs don't really pan out I'm gonna walk away from the job to just people that are trying to move to Cheney County That have a hard time doing it or people that end up driving a long ways to come to a job in Cheney County So and we've been really Exporting workers for quite a long time You know basically because we don't have enough housing supply They're having to drive further and further to to get here so we started this campaign a few years ago with our friends at Champlain Housing Trust and Housing Vermont To really say what can we do to address the housing market? And we kind of came up with a dual goal of trying to push for 3,500 new homes getting Five years seven hundred a year and twenty percent or seven hundred of those being affordable We're kind of on track for the seven hundred a year But we're I think of the twenty percent we're only like thirteen percent of the affordable units I'm hoping we get closer to the twenty percent over the next year or two There's some big projects that are coming online in 2019 and 2020 they hopefully make a difference but the reality is Even having built, you know over 2100 homes in the last three years That vacancy rate and the demand we haven't really impacted it that much so You know, I'm afraid we're gonna be standing here I'll be standing here in a year or two saying you know what 3,500 homes really wasn't enough We might we need to do another three four five thousand homes to start to have an impact on our housing market So that's kind of scary for me to say that kind of number out loud But and I know there's also, you know often feelings of like Jesus. There's a lot going on How can this possibly how can we need this much more housing? But you know, I think the numbers bear out we we do we're not really impacting the market yet And it is surprising at how many housing units we need. It's also one of the drivers We have some growth We probably have a little bit more number of people coming here than housing units, but it also speaks to housing size I don't mean the size of the house, but Families out the household size that is still decreasing and so we're you know where it used to be two people per household You know where it's getting smaller So we anyway, I'll leave it out. We need a lot more housing and it's really a we issue And so I think things that municipalities can do is focus on your zoning You know increasing density in the places that you want to grow where you have transit and sidewalks and bike paths and all those things and I would say most of our towns are doing some element of that We're trying to increase zoning and density in those places so that we're not sprawling out as much and taking But more advantage of our existing infrastructure, but still a lot more work to do Thank you Yeah, I was looking at the eco scorecard and there's a lot of red trending or trend arrows It's a couple questions associated that with that one is You know, do you look at that and then adjust what your what your focus is based on those those trend arrows and also Is there any? Periodic review to make sure that the questions that are in there that we're asking ourselves are relevant Yeah, so we do review kind of the bigger questions whenever we update the regional plan So parts of that we update every five years and then on a state-required eight-year cycle. So We'll do that when we update the regional plan the bigger questions, you know Are we are we trying to track? Indicators around the right issues And then your first question about how do we use that? So we use that we do an annual report every winter to really look and pull out, you know Not every issue because there's too many but some key issues and that's really how that building homes together campaign started The housing numbers were not looking good Vacancy rates were not looking good. And so that's what kind of started up that campaign And so that I think we've been trying to use it to be strategic about what we focus on in a few in a few areas Without spreading ourselves too thin. So there's a balancing act there Okay, then the I know the the opioid thing you've you've We're more involved with it now it's kind of it's been taken over by another entity Is that kind of that I guess that's that would be the The path that other issues may take yeah, yeah, the United Way is Has taken over the staffing of that Which is good. I'm still Serving on the executive committee for that. So it's all the finger in it and what's we worked a lot with the hospital and the Department of Health and and the United Way over like the last year to look at the comfort or was it the community health needs assessment and I think that that conversation in that that area is Kind of backing up a little bit to focus on broader mental health issues Which the opioid work will be still part of but not the sole focus of The Chinton water district came to us and spoke to us as well They're another regional entity and there they are you know of the many regional entities that we We contribute to they're the only ones that have an elected governing board just wonder if you have any thoughts about the benefits or or You know who you have an appointed board The water district seemed to think that that they had a significant advantage of having you with their board being elected I don't know if you have any thoughts or it's ever been a consideration to curious as to what the advantage is but Yeah, the board our board member your board member is appointed by you and thank you Elaine for filling the alternate role this year and And for us it's really been key that we remain as close as possible to the select board and So that you know we're aligned policy-wise So I think that's been a higher interest of ours and then having someone independently. Okay, and I was worried about Divergent positions Yeah Any other questions for Charlie Mostly I'm just excited I'm I'm very enthusiastic about the sidewalk conversation between Athens I have in 289 and also I would like to learn more about The studies about exit 14 and So I those are the two things that I'm most enthusiastic about but all of it is very exciting and it's a lot of information It's great Also the link about the Sidewalk Thing didn't work. Yeah, so I apologize. There was I think my fault I should have sent you a PDF that had workable links And I think somewhere in the conversion that the broke the links broke So I don't know if you had the chance Greg to send Oh, I didn't see it I didn't click on it. Oh, it was late today. It's okay. Yeah, but my my bad I'm sorry. I should have sent you a working PDF. I noticed the email command, but I didn't Know no problem. No, and thank you Andy for letting us know that that happened so I apologize for that Good anything else for Charlie? All right, Charlie. Thank you. Thanks for everything CCRPC is doing for Essex We're happy to have that long list of projects All right, we have just enough time I think to At the minimum complete new business item 6c the minutes of September 16th We've pulled them from the consent agenda to deal with them separately Andy You want to move a motion and then the correction or do you want the correction first? It would be a good idea to move them to get them on the table. Hey, so I move Approval of the select board special meeting minutes of September 16 with 2019 with the select board member corrections. Is there a second? Second Those and oh excuse me for further discussion. Yeah line 95 There's a it starts the line before says mr. Levy agreed with striking all of item 6.0 8.0 1 0 it should be 6.0 8.0 4 5 correct, which is so Important correction. Thank you, Andy. That's and that's all I have that was it yep Does anybody else have any corrections or comments on minutes of September 16th? Okay Hearing none all those in favor of approving the minutes as amended. Please say aye. Aye aye opposed Okay The minutes are approved. I think we can squeeze in the consent agenda Can I ask a procedural question? Of course when you move 6c? I'm sorry 6d Which is minutes? There's two sets of minutes. I only asked to move the one. I see great. Thank you September 9th. We'll stay in the consent agenda So with that would anybody like to move the approval of the consent agenda? I move approval of the consent agenda with select board comments a second second and Any comments questions further discussion on the consent agenda? I just have a question about the the deputy health officer, and I know there's a budget in there For paying Deputy health officer. I'm just wondering I don't recall is that the increase an increase over last year It's the same. It was approved. It's we do three and a half percent is what we budget for each year same as other staff Any other comments or questions about the consent agenda? Hearing none all those in favor of approving the consent agenda. Please say aye. Aye opposed Okay It is we have four more minutes cruise right into the reading file Does anybody have questions or comments about the reading file or select board member comments in general? No Going once okay, so we have completed all the business items except for 6b which will follow after our public hearing and we are right on time to start the public hearing way to go Okay So we have a public hearing to consider application for Vermont community development program grant to allow Champlain Housing Trust and Vermont Foundation of Recovery To convert 12 existing apartments on Ethan Allen Avenue into supportive housing for people in recovery from substance abuse disorder so Do we want to do any brief discussion of what it is first and then open the file? To public comment or shall we go straight to public comment? Yeah, that would be great, okay Any please please join us and introduce your group because I'm sad to say I don't remember your names Whoever talks the most should get closest to the mic welcome. Hi. Thanks for coming back again. Thank you Thank you for having us again. I'm Amy Dimetru. It's the director of real estate development for the Champlain Housing Trust and My name is David Regal. I'm the executive director of Vermont Foundation of Recovery So thank you for having us back for this formal public hearing I'm gonna just recap if that's all right to give a summary again of the project even though You still a lot of people to hear it so We are here asking that the select board consider applying for the Vermont community development program on behalf of our Proposal to convert some apartments at Fort Ethan Allen into recovery housing in 2016 CHT purchased 12 buildings with 31 apartments along Ethan Allen Avenue in the fort that UVM owned and it was graduate student housing We converted 19 of those homes into Ethan Allen condominiums and sold those to homeowners as shared equity homes And we continue to own three buildings each with four two-bedroom apartments with no income restrictions This past spring we started talking with Vermont Foundation of Recovery about how we could help them With their mission in the face of the growing crisis of substance abuse and how we could help them Become more efficient in their services so that they could provide services across more of the state What they what we came to was identifying these three three apartment buildings as a good location where they could combine some of their homes and Realize those efficiencies So our plan is to convert building 1005 1006 1007 on Ethan Allen Avenue into recovery homes that would be managed by v4 There would be very little exterior change the changes would be interior two of the buildings We would convert from four apartments into two apartments and those would be larger communal homes Run for folks who are in recovery the middle building would remain for two-bedroom apartments And that would be used as transitional housing most importantly for families who are getting who have been Separated from their children because of substance abuse issues and are now have the opportunity to be brought back together with their children as they're in recovery That's a very high need for that type of housing and v4 is committed to working through the issues of doing that type of work there are existing tenants in the apartments and They would all be helped to relocate following a very strict rules the uniform relocation act That would have us Meeting with all of the tenants to understand what their needs are where they want to be how many bedrooms Do they need is there a school district? They want to be in What is the cost helping them find the right place that they want to go to pain for the moving costs? Paying for any other moving related expenses like security deposits utility setup fees and paying the rent Differential between their comparable unit and where they are now if there's a difference there for up to 60 months CHT has 2,000 apartments in our portfolio and anyone who is moving from here would be at the top of that list We have many others at the fort. We also have Cedars Edge and Essex And we would be working with them to move there or anywhere else in the private market as well Once the conversion is complete we would be CHT would continue to own the property and we would master lease it with Vermont foundation of recovery And they would be managing the residents and their occupancy of those homes So David Regal is going to talk a bit about how recovery homes operate sure So again, we've sort of been here before I'll do my best to be pretty brief with the whole thing You know we are Working with people who are invested in their own recovery. So they actually request to live with us It's not a requirement that anybody come in and say with us But we have an application process and then we do an interview to try to get to know the person a little bit The most important thing is that they'd be committed to their recovery and our homes we have six individuals we create a family like atmosphere and The whole point is peer-to-peer support So it's people who are walking the same path as each other Holding each other accountable and helping to develop the life skills necessary to be able to live successfully independently And really grow and flourish as individuals So we hold people accountable To their recovery path we hold them accountable to the life skills necessary to live with each other within the home and We're available to help You know if any conflicts arise and please don't use my toothbrush to clean the toilet like how do we work through that and It's a lot about scaffolding. It's a lot about trying to provide enough support so that Everybody has what they need and then back away and let them hold each other accountable and Reading the home. So we have paid staff house managers are available between 10 and 15 hours a week in the home and that is you know again based on where That home is at collectively so because we would be talking about four separate recovery residences We would have four separate people who were available For that 10 to 15 hours per week. So we're talking about 60 hours worth of Vermont Foundation recovery staff time on site And more if necessary, you know if a house needs more support than that then we'll provide more support And those house managers do everything from you know, helping people to feel comfortable get acclimated in the community Running weekly house meetings checking in with each individual multiple times throughout the course of the week and in general just you know sort of providing the support necessary with whatever it is that they need and Those house managers are supported by our director of operations Andrew Gania You folks met Andrew last time that we met Andrews supported by myself as the executive director and then we also have Volunteer board of directors that supports the organization as a whole and our house managers operate as a team. So All of our standards for our houses are very very very close to each other Very small differences from one home to another home. And so house managers can step in and help out At any time with any of the recovery residences that we operate. So Yeah, it's about creating that family-like atmosphere and giving folks the the best environment That will allow them to be successful holding them accountable with compassion As people that have been there and walked through it ourselves So Amy you submitted a proposal for a phased-in approach, would you describe that briefly and then we'll go to the public hearing? Yes, so in response to I'm chief Gary's Request as well as neighborhood issues We were looking at phasing in Occupancy of the buildings as recovery homes over a longer period of time So what the proposal was was that starting around July 1st of 2020 we would occupy one of the buildings Converting those into two apartments Through the fall of 2020 as apartments become available Up to four in the in one of the other buildings We would slowly have those turned to transitional housing for folks who have already been through the recovery homes to have a place to be in a more transitional independent living then After six months of occupying both the recovery homes and it was two of the transitional apartments We would do an impact study and we would look to the select board and most likely to Gary for some Direction as to what you want that impact study to include, but we're assuming that it would be about any sort of burden on the Emergency resources looking at police calls fire calls EMT calls But we would be working on some sort of a definition of what that impact study would include And then we would come back after completing that impact study and look to Sort of a final go ahead with converting the last part of the housing Thank you So at this time we would welcome public comment. Can I get a show of hands of who wants to speak? Keep them up, please All right, we're gonna go for a minute and a half a piece We'll time you When it's your turn, please stand up and tell us your name and your street and Then you're welcome to speak. Are you all set Evan? Did someone have a question I did have a I wanted to ask clarifying question, but I don't know if you want to Can we do board discussion after public comment would that be okay? I appreciate it. Thank you, Andy Right, could you all raise your hands again? Yeah, we're gonna start with the folks in the far left and then go row by row So folks in the back row and then next row and the next row. Okay, so remember name street and speak loudly, please Who's first? I can't hear you at all Alternate location that's under consideration for Something I think at this point we're just taking comment, but that's a good question and I'll ask it during the discussion period Thank you 3d the now and after My question is with the regional manager here telling you that there's a shortage of low-income housing Fastly why we don't meet it every year. This could be extremely part of why we don't meet it because we're Sending it out to other places. I mean for other people understand there's a need but there's also a need for low-income housing So how do we choose one over the other? Second of all, it's absurd for them to come here and ask you for this grant knowing that our sewer system is $750,000 different We purchased low-income homes through these folks and our sewer system is we were told when it was turned over to us It's dilapidated which means if we want to repair it We could go for a loan as a 19-unit hole at the tune of thirty nine thousand four hundred eighty two dollars a piece That's not affordable. I didn't move there to go into further death than I You know trying to try to step myself forward get get myself better in life So this is kind of absurd and people that are already living there How do you tell them that they're not as good as the people that we're trying to help next? How do you how do you possibly do that after the mission statement is for low-income affordable housing? 20 seconds. I'm done. Thank you. Thank you Anyone else in that back row? Jennifer Larson also adult drive So and these are some of the comments that I made at the last meeting but One of the concerns is that This that the size of this project is five times larger than what before currently has Going on and has experience with Again the concern about the Real change in the community and that this is a lot more like an extended stay hotel with the Coming and going of residents with by their own design is Upwards of 76 people over a year. So that's a real big change in our current community There's also already been a mention of the sewer and I can speak to that also that the Condition of that and the impacts of that have direct impact on Dalton Drive and That hasn't been fully explained either There was mentioned in the last meeting that there would be money That they were working on talking with the Department of Public Works that really Thank you Looks like we're ready for the next row Sir Eric Davis Dalton Drive I think the chiefs Comments actually kind of summarize what similar concerns to my own I'm not for or against the proposal on its merits, but I am for a robust public process where all the stakeholders and the decision-makers have the information to be able to act in an informed manner The sewer is a concern I understand there's some money for Stormwater improvements, even though there's apparently a little External change that tells me that there's some impervious service area surfaces to be added We don't know What that looks like? We don't know if the stormwater treatment will be adequate because we just simply don't know We don't know what sort of improvements we made to the sewer similar to Chief Gary is concerned on the strain on public resources. We don't have we don't know how all these other resources will be strained So I if if you're going to support the grants I think you've become a project proponent at that point and I want to know I want to have enough Information to get behind the up to the project and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it at this point Thank you Next please I'm Kara Lenorowitz. I also live on Dalton Drive. I've also had an opportunity to attend the three preceding meetings and I Do understand the need for recovery housing in Chittenden County? I think that argument has been made really really well And I have some really big concerns about the specifics of this project One of my major concerns has to do with this particular project as proposed Seems to compromise the strengths of both of the organizations that are partnering in it for CHT Organization that is geared towards providing affordable sustainable housing for all residents in Chittenden County is Essentially enticing and evicting current residents to replace them and move somewhere else and while I Resonize that there aren't restrictions on this particular building It is essentially serving as an affordable housing location right now So that concerns me that that's a big compromise for that organization to start off with For before their strengths that they have proposed at previous meetings have come around Having smaller locations of six residents at a time in one house They're distributed throughout Chittenden County and I recognize while that serves Maybe some inefficiencies in their model. It also gets a broader distribution We don't know what that looks like with three buildings with 32 people concentrated Thank you next Hi, Barbara hauling down Dalton Drive, and I don't have much of a voice. So I'm trying I'll summarize my feelings by saying that I went to the initial meeting the initial community meeting with a much more open mind about this that has Continue to become more concerned with the information We haven't gotten or the information changing over time and I want to say that We remain concerned for our neighbors who are being uprooted the scale of the project Everyone's personal safety Strain on services the effect of a frequently changing population The safety of employees and residents at Green Mountain nursing home Falling property values and the risk of to the social to the social fabric and welcoming neighbor Nature of our neighborhood Thank you, and we received your letter as well. Thank you Next hi, I'm Laura Sharpe now, and I live on Claire Drive, which is also in 40th and Allen And I kind of wanted to speak to the concerns about the safety of the people that live in these homes and You know what is described as? extended stay I Am a person that has lived in a recovery home not never my foundation of recovery home although I'm very familiar with it and there was a need for me to have some sort of housing in between treatment and independence Before this I was not a neighbor that you would want Now if you saw me in your neighborhood because I am your neighbor you would never know that I am a person that has substance abuse disorder and I just want to Just make it a point that there is a large difference between someone that is actively in Struggling with substances and somebody that is recovering from substance abuse disorder, and I hope that is something that's taken into consideration. Thank you Thank you Looks like next row Oh, please go ahead My name is Jeff Morrow. I'm the executive director of the Vermont Alliance for Recovery Residences I am not a citizen Essex, and I just want to make sure it's okay that I say a few words As long as you keep it to a minute 30 I just want to say that I just completed sort of occasion of Vermont Foundation for recovery's six homes and They have met all the national and our standards I've been accrediting Organizations like V4 for over 10 years and have a long history with CHT and I have great confidence that both Organizations will do everything they can to make this work for the community At four even now and there have been over 50 Scientific studies that have been done that have demonstrated that these recovery homes Don't impact property values or public safety or some of the concerns that people legitimately have and I just want to give folks Some reassurance that this can be done and you've got two really good partners to accomplish this. Thank you Joanne Charbonneau and I live on Las Nation and I have family in the board and I do support the program the recovery housing proposal I Think it's a good plan the phasing in plan and on another note I have family members in the program and I also have Currently two tenants Who are were in the housing for three years and they have my best tenets I've ever had You wouldn't go wrong Thank you My name is Erin Edwards. I live on Dalton Drive I just want to say that I think that living in a community and specifically the small town that is Vermont is Extremely important to me. I'm born and raised for Monter and To live in a community that supports people who are trying to help themselves is extremely important to me I think that the work that is being done Is amazing and I'm really excited about it I think that moving new people into this amazing neighborhood where we have access to walking paths and Healthy options is a wonderful wonderful step for people who are choosing to be in recovery And there is such a substance abuse problem in our state that to be able to say to people You can come here. We will get you healthy. You can make these choices yourself I think that that's extremely empowering and I am very glad to live in this neighborhood And I hope that this moves forward and that these are new members of my community. Thank you I'm Josh Simon. I live on tert Street even though I don't live in the neighborhood I just want to say that I support the proposal. I think it's so important as many have said to support those who are in recovery and I do think To acknowledge those who have some issues is that there's As a person who is also a clergy person in the community I hope there are ways for us to to work with the recovery housing if it is provide meals or something like that It's help you all feel connected to the broader community. It may not be the neighborhood, but the broader community of access of Essex so See us as an ally if you are able to move into the neighborhood. Thank you Next aisle Sir the pink shirt. Yeah My name is John Hodgkin. I live on Essex Drive, Essex Dolphin Drive and I have a whole list of questions here And I don't think in a minute and a half and he'll get through them The one of the major ones focuses more on the board and the grant itself the Memo that Greg put together That's in the packet indicates that the portion of the $700,000 grant will be used to pay off existing debt Is this an appropriate use of taxpayer funds to pay off a debt incurred by CHT and I also note in Mike Well, mr. Montes stated it also states there that mr. Montes said that he's they've applied through grant through VHC me to quote remove all existing debt on the buildings And if this is so what existing debt is a ton of Essex being asked to support through this grant You know and the next point also related to the grant is it states that CHT staff will be writing the grant application Does the town have a process for vetting the grant application before it's formally submitted? Can you describe the process and will those who are impacted in within the community have a chance to review the application before? It's formally submitted And finally it says the grant the memo says that duration of the grant is 30 years Does this mean that the three buildings will be designated as sober housing for 30 years? And what happens if you for ceases operation for any number of possible reasons? Thank you, sir My name is Harry summerfield. I live on Dalton Drive one of the first points. I mean is that the documents included with Submitted to the select board say that the CHP is going to Wipe the proposal that the town is not going to write the proposal I would like to ensure that the proposal is first of all made public and Secondly that there is a subsequent hearing once the proposal is written because we actually do not know What it is that is going to be considered and anything could appear in that proposal So this is a very preliminary discussion that we're having tonight when I came close to talking about the actual Issues that might arise the second thing and I hope you take take this under I mean some of these recorded this comment the the next thing I would like to point out is that the last Meeting the police chief. I think very prudently pointed out that the impact of these 32 beds is In his it is the way I heard him anyway, and it certainly is the opinion of most of people I've talked to it's just too much and that in and that most of the residents who are concerned about particularly about the eviction of the current residents and our neighbors and their children are Willing generally speaking, I think willing to accept one building and retain the other Housing as is the mission of the trust and Is the current structure of the family-based structure of our community? We want to preserve that. Okay. Thank you. Yes I live at 1007 recovery. I've lived at recovery house second recovery for seven and a half years my two kids are in that picture The base and you can't put a price on that and I came here for that in that picture And I'm all for more recovery houses. It's much needed But my kids also need this too Thank you. I'm my name is Anne Lagrange. I live on Dalton Drive this community that we are That the recovery housing would disrupt is an amazingly diverse community I I said this every every time the folks who live here deserve the Support of the town of Essex They're not ponds in a housing game and who judges who is more deserving The folks who live there the children that are growing up there these children are like There's not many pockets where children who have Who are in low-income housing have lots of place to run and play and we all look down and we all sort of supervise What's going on? It I Just want to know who judges which population is the most deserving. It's for me. It's really a moral question The other thing is when V4 talked about their existing homes from what I understood from one of the last meetings They were going to close all the homes that they have So how do they really get ahead of the game if they're closing the homes that they have in order to consolidate? They're losing whatever number they have around which is diversified Which is sent around the community and I I don't I don't understand That's What anyone else like to speak Hi, my name is more Collins I've spoken to the select board before because of my day job at VHFA and sometimes people become Conflated with their occupations and I'm known as the housing girl VHFA has not been asked for any money for this proposal and I don't think will be but I'm here today though as an Essex resident I've had an opportunity to visit one of the V4 residences in Essex that I had no idea my three children walked past to and from when going to school every day and I had no idea And why would I because the people living there in that peer support model are doing very well I met one who works at a local restaurant now every time I go to that restaurant. We make the same connection and I'm happy to see that he's Employed locally and a part of our community more than being the housing person I am an Essex resident who was raised by two people with substance use disorder and have a sibling with them Thankfully recovery Is has been a part of their journeys, but I was raised in a family and a part of my childhood was very much Influenced by this and the need for a safe sober place for people to be is critical I am so excited to hear so many of my fellow citizens be so excited about the next affordable housing project It sounds like there's a groundswell of support for affordable housing in general, and I think that this Consolidated location of recovery residents led by V4 being certified by VTAR is the perfect combination to go forward with CHD Thank you Ma'am My name is Jill Richard I live on Dalton Drive and have a child that I've raised for the last 10 years on Dalton Drive And we've been part of an incredibly diverse and wonderful community that I Think ideally would continue to be so what what comes to mind for me about this is the The class difference that is exposed here where The combination of recovery housing and affordable housing comes to the nexus between those folks in recovery who can't independently or privately Access recovery supports and who need to rely on public publicly financed or public housing And supported resources in order to get to recovery So there's a niche here that our community has the ability and the opportunity and the privilege to potentially provide to a population of people who are consistently marginalized and Left to fend for themselves without the adequate resources necessary It's not to say that there aren't impacts on our community that there aren't infrastructure needs that need to be attended to That there aren't transitional issues or community issues that need to be responded to but the underlying class issue needs to be recognized and identified as such Is there anyone else who would like to speak ma'am? My name is Stephanie notes. I live on Dalton Drive And I guess I just want to be really clear for myself I have no problem with the recovery housing. There's a tremendous need and and I fully support that I think perhaps size-wise. It's a little much But I think what I really object to is The way this has come about I mean we are having hearings now. We're finding out things, but there's a lot to know and I'm not thrilled with the way CHT has handled this stuff and how then general they handle Even the the housing for lower-income people I you know, I have the debt of gratitude to them to to some extent But but there's a open above board Make everything transparent. Let us all see what's going on. Let us really look at the numbers How many numbers what would would be a fair number for our whole neighborhood of? People to come in. I don't think most of us object to recovering people at all. That's not the issue It's more. How do we treat people that are already there? people that moved in assuming that they would have a place to be and who will not and then all of the plumbing and streets and sidewalks and Caring for it caring for us all these people make sure that that's all in place properly Thank you Is there anyone else who would like to speak going once Could we speak? Um, it's one at a time. So thank you Ma'am. Yes, sir. I'm Hannah Peacock. I live on Dalton Drive And while I agree with many of the things that are being said I strongly support this project I feel like this is a community that needs each other. So the size of it actually I think is a plus If there's six people they have each other if there's 12 people They have some 12 and six more people to talk with obviously I feel terrible people are displaced But it sounds like you guys have a plan in place to find these people new houses And I feel terrible they're being moved out But I think the recovery project is a positive one. I think you checked all your boxes I think you know what you're doing and I think That community needs this more not more because you can't compare I agree But I think this this is a good location for that project and I support it fully Okay If there aren't any further comments from the audience then we're going to close the public hearing And then the board will discuss and talk to representatives at the table Making sure there aren't any further comments I will hear a motion from a board member to close the public hearing It's removed Is there a second? Second All in favor of closing the public hearing. Please say aye Okay so Before we begin um, I just want to Ask the board's uh indulgence just for a quick quick question um Our conflict of interest policy requires us to disclose when we feel like there may be a conflict But we are able to talk to the board about it and make a determination as a group whether it's appropriate to continue And it's very important that I share with you that I work for the agency of commerce and community development Under which the department of housing and community development is operated Which the community development block grant program is administered by All of that to say is I work for the agency that will issue the grant Should we decide to move forward with this? However, I have no Affiliation whatsoever with the housing department. I have nothing to do with the grant I just work there. So I just want to let folks know if you feel that that's a conflict And I should with will recuse myself from this conversation. I will I can tell you that I don't intend to be influenced by my employer for this conversation But if the board feels more comfortable, I'd be willing to step out Believe that that's necessary and believe that you can act objectively and there's no personal gain in it for you So definitely not I'm more than happy to have you continue my opinion. Thank you pat I agree with pat Andy, you're okay, any I also okay. Thank you Sorry to delay to get that over with um So board How about we start um, who would like to start asking questions first andy andy had questions before we even began So, please go ahead Sorry, it was the relative to the the uh, the phased proposal. That's why I wanted I wanted to bring that up in the for the impact study you say after six months of occupying both recovery homes and at least two transit transitional apartments, so from From and you say though the schedule is around july one you you intend to open the two of the recovery homes And then it's some months later that you would start to occupy One of the other two buildings. So is it six months six months after That point or six months after july first. That's the clarification I was looking for So in total is it nine months or is it So this proposal would be we would start counting six months after at least two of the transitional apartments are occupied so um, it would be Longer than six months after july first because we're not going to occupy those two apartments right away Okay, okay, because I know I know I think the chief was asking for a year or something. So it's closer to a year Then then it's likely closer to at least nine months Thank you. That was the clarification I was asking for earlier Max In general, uh, I I recognize the need for for this recovery housing and I appreciate you coming forward with uh with this proposal Um, I do have some concerns with it Um, one one question. I was what is the deadline? Uh, what is the deadline to have this grant application in? I understand It's not in real near term That's right. So um, we did hear from the vermont community development program that they won't be able to an To accept an application this month We were remember we've been running up against these public hearing notices And it just really became too late for them to accept one for the november round So the next time they're accepting applications is in february for an april board decision So this public hearing would still count for that But um, we wouldn't actually you wouldn't actually be able to submit an application Until february and they would consider it in april So if we ask you to rework a phase in plan To be something that would cover a full year And perhaps even be just one building Um, that might be something you could rework in that length of time Okay So I've So will the supervisors on staff be medically trained to handle overnight emergencies or Will that fall to the town or the sx rescue to do that? So, um, the folks who live in our recovery residences are folks just like you, right? So they they don't require supervision. They're not In a condition under which they would need to have medical treatment or Um be supervised overnight. So none of our staff are medically trained at all across the board and in fact We don't want them to be because again, it's about peer-to-peer support and and this is their home And so creating that home environment and that safe place for them to be and sort of come in outside of the world In the same way that we all go home and we kick our feet up and we relax It's really important to to maintain that atmosphere Okay, um It was brought up last time that um, the the residents in these homes won't actually be renters so But they're members is that correct so that if if they violate their conditions There's not an eviction process there. You just tap them and they have to unfortunately leave Um, and if that changes, how do we how do we I mean do you foresee that changing? To you know go from member to renter somehow so that the eviction process might be more Arduous, you know Yeah, so we're we're actually working and along with jeff With a set of stakeholders to to get things actually codified around that The whole reason that v4 is set up with membership Is specifically for this purpose. So We don't have any reason to believe that that's going to change And you know again, I mean, I think it's important to recognize that the value of the recovery residents is each Person holding each other accountable in that peer environment And so frankly if somebody returns to use they they don't want to be living with five other people that are Being drug and alcohol free right like that that is going to impede upon their lifestyle moving forward and so most people they just go Uh, they they they don't want to be there anymore than than folks living in the home We have a commitment to maintain that safe environment for folks with substance use disorder They seek us out specifically coming to live in a recovery residence because they want to be in an environment that is drug and alcohol free In the home So we make the commitment to have people in the right way if it's been happening the safety of the place So i'm in a shorter answer might be that if you don't have that Codification how that this works that we how v4 is doing it now You don't do that then you don't have a recovery home Because you're not able to sort of move people out. Right. So so if there is a change then the recovery home sort of Disappears Max is that anything? Well, I wanted to talk about the phasing approach again because i'm a little uncomfortable with what you had proposed and I don't Since it's not till february. I don't know if you'd be willing to to consider something different for example to uh As andy was sort of alluding to You know a longer time period gives us a better idea as to the impact To the town services to the residents It might also allow us to check up on the Essex residents that were in those buildings They got displaced to ensure that they're they landed Well and that these displaced folks, you know, we don't want to just ignore they were residents They're being um asked to move or told to move You know, I'd like to make sure that they're You know happy and where they landed that that's working well So i'd like to personally see it be a one-year Impact study where it's just the one building you have the three buildings And I don't know if this process would work to phase it in with just the one building for a year But ideally I think that would give us a better time period to really assess how that's working and and and See if what we anticipated where it's going to work. Well Does that did it truly happen well in in that year and then? but not allow any additional um recovering housing to be Open until we have that impact study done And to the select board's satisfaction um, and if it shows that there's no undue burden Then um, you know, we'd be happy to have you come back and and and we can open it up, perhaps, you know to the I'd like to propose. I don't know Be supportive but another public hearing to say, okay We want to do now phase two and is everybody on on board with that But if it shows a negative impact in that study after, you know them being there a year Then we'd like to see what your plan is to mitigate those issues And then once the again the select board satisfied that those have been mitigated well Then we'd like to consider the next phase, but I'd really again in support of what you're doing I know there's a need for it. I'd like to see it work But I want to make sure it works and if we could do a phased approach that gives us a full year to really assess it and not rush it because My opinion less than a year. It doesn't really give you enough data to say is everything working according to plan Which I assume it will but I'd love to verify that So since it's not until february if that's something that you might be able to consider that type of um Phasing I'd be interested to to know And I could support something like that. I have a hard time supporting this shorter study Because I don't think it gives us enough data I mean the the only thing that I would say to that is that We're we're talking full project right of four recovery residences and then the transitional apartments Three out of those four recovery residences are already functioning And they've all been functioning for over three years And so we've got data Around the impact of that stuff. So what we're really looking at is like, okay How does it change things to to bring everything together right and and to the point that was made earlier It actually does help um from a programmatic standpoint in terms of the connections that people draw The question becomes what does that do from a community standpoint of the folks around them? And so I think why one of the reasons why it was proposed in the way that it was is saying like, okay Part of this is about trying to create efficiencies trying to trying to make sure that You know, we're able to expand to other areas of the state And and if we're phasing in when we look at one building And then moving into the apartments for the second building it allows for some of those efficiencies Without adding any additional capacity to to v4 as a whole So we already have the staff to support all that and everything Is available to that and then the thought was if we get to the six month mark after people have moved in And there are further issues. Well, then let's maybe revisit it after Another three months or another six months And move forward that way, but if we're looking at it saying Okay, there's nothing that's come up like the slate is clean. It's exactly what everybody thought it was Then maybe we could move forward after that six month mark. So that was some of the thinking that went into it You know, I think michael can probably speak more to the bigger picture. So the only thing I'd say is that I The statement that we that you do have some recovery residences out there that you can't evaluate right now And I think the chief in town has sort of looked at that and I think that that's a A good thing to take home and think about when you're thinking about what is the impact I think we want to go halfway to This opportunity of saying we will study the impact. We will be transparent in that review We really clear with the town about exactly what the standards are what the conditions are what the recent all the things that need to be Done. We're not just we're really on board with that That's not hard for us to do But but one resident one residence is not going to be or one building two residents is not going to be quite enough So, you know, we'll certainly have some more discussion about that with there's some time to review that But I would just ask you to consider the fact that in fact these residents do exist They are in existence. They do have a review that is a real life assessment for them right now You can see that you can actually go and ask the questions of the various police chiefs and see What that what that in fact is I would also just say one other thing We we unfortunately or fortunately at times have to do relocation in fact the homes the people who were in the homes who At this place those folks had to be we actually had to wait while they moved out There had to be relocation for home ownership to occur. We do this on a regular basis From a federal housing stand my first job and from what was as a relocation specialist There is very clear protections for the tenant I mean so clear and we will we will work with each tenant and we'll make sure that they're in the home We appreciate Want wanting to make sure that the s6 residents are doing well When we do this we do this very carefully we usually find One or two residents who doesn't want to move out just because they've been there for decades But often enough we're finding them better locations better rents More stable housing long-term housing, you know all those kinds of things. We don't walk away from people. We never walk away I'm guessing I'm asking trust but verify. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yes. I'll wish you a good day. Absolutely Pat um I know what the answer to the question is But I just want to sort of get it out there verbally the people that you will help with relocating If there's a rent differential you said that you guys would be covering that difference, correct? So no one is going to be being forced to move to a location where they're paying more in rent Then what they are now that's and you're covering the moving costs. Yes So we the and again this is the act that michael was referring to is the uniform relocation act It's a very strict federal law That governs how a relocation is done and it includes Finding comparable housing paying for the moving expenses And if there's a difference in the rent Between what someone's paying now and what the comparable unit is then there's a the rent differential is paid for 60 months and It's roughly when assuming that we pass this Approximately the same number of people will be in the buildings As part of recovery housing as are in there now correct. It's not like they're bringing in 30 additional people Which you know, it's something that you know, I've heard people say about you know Just the number of people coming in and you know, whether or not that's going to impact Um, you know, what's there? It's it's roughly the same number of people. That's correct In fact, it's the exact same number of bedrooms. Um, and we're talking about you know, there's 12 units now A lot of folks have talked about families You know, reasonably safe to assume you probably had about three people per two bedroom unit That'd be roughly 36, you know across the three buildings We're proposing, uh, you know a maximum occupancy of 32 and the one I don't know the answer to already um Do you have any recovery housing right now that allows for family units or Like what is like, I know that you know, you want to put You want to be reuniting or reunifying families? What do you currently have now versus what will be here? Sure. So, um, what we currently have now are homes that are either for men or for women and so the beauty of the middle building being Transitional apartments is is for the first time. It really allows us this opportunity To bring children into the mix and reunite parents with with their children That's not to say that it's going to be all families right off the bat You know, that middle building stays very flexible. So it could be You know men, it could be women in those units, but the goal is to work through this family piece We do not currently We certainly have children that come and stay in our homes if their parent has Shared custody or something like that, but we don't have full-time children in any of our homes now Yeah, I mean with you know respect to the concerns that have been brought up You know, I mean we hear all the time we talk about the you know, opioid crisis in the state And I mean this seems like an excellent way for us to kind of put up our shut up You know, we're going to be able to approve Or you know housing that is going to have a positive impact on reuniting families Which doesn't sound like you are really, you know, or at least are able to do in only a very limited way right now So I mean I I I see so many positives about this and I think at some point, you know, we as Leaders of this community need to say whatever our values And for me part of that is You know providing the access to get families together you know, I I just see so much, you know positive in that that I mean really the everything else is What you've gone over everything you've all the boxes that you've checked I mean, I think it looks good and I'm really excited to see You know what you can do with uh, you know kind of these buildings all together Thanks, manny I'm listening deeply to all that is being said um When I heard the word diversity the first thing I thought about was that this is Inclusion of I felt like this added this could be a layer of additional I really feel like this could be such a beautiful situation um It feels to me more like a recipe for success than what our anxiety could tell us it would be and I think That we have to be careful that we don't allow our anxiety about what it means to live nearby to someone who is struggling within their Abuse disorder. I want to say this correctly and I fear I'm not um Because this is not that and it's easy to think it's that but it's not that um, I trust very much this um relocation idea there was a period of time in my life where My children and I were struggling very deeply um financially and emotionally And it it might have been a great gift for me to hear That somebody would um help me make a new decision And ask me where I wanted to live And then say you could even maybe have a nicer place Will help your five years till you get I mean that's like So there are some for whom that might be a gift And I think if we're thoughtful and careful and mindful That really your community could be stronger And more interesting But I'm not saying it won't be a scary ride while you find that out I also think that um As I understand your timing That I I don't know Anything about what I have some understanding, but I don't really understand completely how it all will work But I trust that you do It sounds very much as though you do And I I do know about flow though about communities and flow and I think that enforcing the year idea while conceptually Helps people feel better that it might happen could interfere with the The pattern and the and the growth that you're trying to go for but I I I don't want to interfere with that conversation too much If I understand it correctly the sixth month From july to the fall Is not a definitive definitive line. It sounds like it's a more Fluid thing that could it's a nine month idea that could be longer And as I hear you say about the six month mark is a a deeper look at it than what it might seem like so I don't want to mess around too much with chief gary's understanding because he's also very intelligent and knows what he is doing But a little bit i'm I want to trust Their process also i've really now said too much sorry That's great any thank you um, I have several questions, so I just want to Some of the questions that I heard from the audience. I want to bring to the table. Um What is plan b? If for some reason this board votes no or for some reason you don't get the grant What is plan b? So the the housing units that v4 currently operates out in the community separately would stay in existence And then cht would not do anything with those three buildings. They would remain With the current tenants Probably do something different with the buildings when we brought them remember from the university I think somebody raised the issue. What are we doing? Retiring dead at the problem? Please excuse me The problem is is that we do have a lot of debt on the building and as a result We can't really make it affordable housing So we had to convert them to something else when we had to go in and and create Making a part of a new partnership or do something different than we're doing right now For those three buildings they'll have something we'll have to change for sure We think this is the best opportunity And we have not really seen any other we've looked at a couple of other bills would be for to be honest But we have not seen anything else that really is working as much as these three buildings work as well And is the goal to have multiple buildings together in one space? And that's why you haven't found other locations So the the goal for us is to take the current operations that we have in shipping county and come together and In an affordable way like honestly, we can't go rent any house or any building from anybody At as low a monthly payment as we would be able to with Champlain housing trust And so what that savings allows us to do Is to go out throughout the state of vermont and there was a study on recovery Residences and the need in the state of vermont and jeff can probably speak to it better than i can That identified communities throughout the state that have nothing They have absolutely nothing anywhere near them and v4 wants to be stable statewide We want to offer recovery housing throughout the state to to help with all of this But we can't do it if our house isn't in order And so we're trying to get our house in order And this gives us a really solid foundation to be able to continue our statewide expansion So we are not interested if this project moves forward We're not actually interested in growing recovery housing in chitinon county any more than this project at all In fact when the project is completed there will be a total of one additional Space for men and there will be six additional spaces for women and it will provide that opportunity to start bringing Folks back together which are exactly the needs that the study had shown And then we will look at you know continuing to expand throughout the rest of the state that we've already done a little bit of But the way that we're able to provide that low cost to v4 Which really is the ultimate goal is by paying off all the debt through these grant sources That's exactly why we're applying for these grant sources So is so that we can not have the rent have to include the debt And can you confirm for sure that a cdb grant? Is allowable for paying off debt? We have to work that through with the vcdp staff Okay, so that's it's not definite that that's permitted under the use of that grant right If there are other expenses related to this there's the um renovation of the yeah the apartments and other expenses My understanding though is that a substantial portion of what your the project will be debt repayment So, okay. Yeah. Yeah, and will you keep the town appraised as to whether the cdb folks will let you do that? Absolutely And and when someone asked a question about you know, can we see the application and I believe we have a process where Like right now we're we're we're deciding whether to approve becoming the fiscal agent for this grant But then there's also a Approve we have to approve the application itself. Is that correct? Or am I remembering village something from the village as opposed to the town? No, I think you have it right. Yeah We it has to come back here Once it's ready to go for us to approve submitting. Is that correct? Well, I'm not sure if that's a requirement, but it would probably be smart I yeah for a grant of this level. Absolutely. So there um, what happens is uh, The town opens up the online application, but it doesn't get submitted until The town pushes the submit button. So you've got all that time to review it and make sure and the town is the applicant Not cht. We don't push a button. You're right. We do um And and another interesting question came from the audience. So if this is a 30 year grant Is the I'm assuming the intention is that this will remain recovery housing for the length of the grant Which is like a mortgage basically And what happens if v4 does not survive or is absorbed by another organization? What are the contingency plans for that and for the people who live in the housing? We would um, if if something happened, uh, there wasn't a need for recovery housing or v4 goes away or whatever We would talk with the two primary funders our vcdp and the vermont housing conservation board And we would keep affordability restrictions on those units But we would either convert the four bedroom recovery home back into two apartments And rent them as two bedroom apartments or we also have right now pretty strong demand for larger units For larger families, so we might keep it as a four bedroom apartment and put a larger family in there I think last time it's here I said we had master leases with several other social service organizations Howard center for other and others and all of those properties received some about a amount of money to reduce the cost to The master leaser Howard center and others and each of those has covenants that say If not this use then it needs to be an affordable affordable. So we we're used to that kind of So agreement 30 years is a long time. It is and so there is obviously Going to be need for flexibility if something changes and generally they've been very flexible as long as we maintain affordability Can we talk about the sewer infrastructure for a minute? Can you remind us again what the portion of the project? What portion of the funds will go towards stormwater mitigation and what that is? And then what are your thoughts regarding the you know, we know that those pipes are super old But it's a private use so that's not that the town can fix that like what is the plan If things go wrong there with the infrastructure So I'm going to talk first to the stormwater. That's an an existing issue with the stormwater and Our civil engineer has talked with folks in the town about Haring basically the stormwater line that has been crushed an old pipe old clay pipe that goes into the ravine And then also providing the town in the future as part of your overall stormwater planning Access to that ravine for other stormwater improvements throughout the That the easement that was referred to in the materials The easement that was referred to in the materials. Okay, right So um the 50 000 is just to take care of that existing stormwater issue. That's due to a crushed pipe But it would take care of future town issues as well with the stormwater The sewer line there are there are issues with the sewer line I think not just along Ethan Allen avenue and the condominiums, but um Along Dalton drive as well and throughout the fort. So um, we do need to talk more with the town about that We've begun conversations with uh, Dennis um in trying to understand what the cost would be and uh He has suggested that though there's large sections of this pipe that would typically be town owned that are Privately owned that it given the situation with other taxpayers throughout the community It makes sense that the town might take over eventually ownership of those lines once we can figure out a plan to repair them Last time you were here. I had as or pat had asked you and I followed up About talking to the school district Have you done that yet? Okay, we we would want to be sure that the school district is aware that there are children in transition at this house these houses and That they will be coming into the school district on a possibly temporary basis. They might not last the school year It's really important that those kids land well So please make sure that you talk to the school district and perhaps we should include that as a requirement in the grant application just if there's a section about partnerships or Approvals or something that that you've talked to them You Right the the wraparound supports are the important part. Yeah, thank you I can give you the name of the person you can contact if you want to just Hang out afterwards for a few few moments sure um, the last thing I want to Just say in general this is more for the board and the audience is Men several years ago. We the town of Essex conducted the heart and soul process where we we had a deep conversation about our values And I just want to remind folks at three of the values. We decided upon were community connections health and recreation and thoughtful growth and I think that this project does address three of the all three of those things um, particularly the community connections and The inclusiveness of making sure that everybody who lives here has a safe place to live And can do what they need to do to live a healthy life. So Just thought I'd throw that out there that it is it's a goal of ours to have projects like this in our community Um, does anybody else have max? Yeah, I just want to be clear that I I want this project to be Successful, but I take the concerns of our police chief and our fire chief and the residents very seriously So, um, for me to be able to support it I'd like to see an alternate phased approach that gives us a little bit more time And you can decide on how to Do that in a way that will allow us to You know trust but verify that yeah, this is working well before we We go beyond that and and I don't know if that's something you're willing to do But for me to support it tonight That's what I'd like to to see particularly since the deadline isn't tonight to make the approval if we have a little bit more time Could we do that? Then I I I really want to be on board But I I I need to see a different phased approach than what's been offered I think it would be fine. Um, because the uh, the deadline has been delayed until february Um, you wouldn't have to authorize this resolution tonight But if you could at least authorize the staff to open up the online grant so that we can start writing the grant And then there'd be opportunity to have those conversations with the administrative staff and then respond to something We can talk more you get to push the button And then we would come back to get the um resolution passed It also will be a question to the funders because it's critical to get the debt paid off so that we can make those transitions So they'd have to be on board with you know, okay, this isn't going to come on for you know A year and how that would impact them And if it's negative you can come back and you let us know that this is the best you can do But I don't know if that's the best you can do yet Right in fact, um, we had a we were going to be on the vermont housing and conservation board meeting tomorrow And because we had these questions about how we were going to phase that's been delayed until december Because they want to they need to talk through issues of well, how what is that? How's that going to affect their funding? When would they be able to provide funding? Of course, please Oh, sorry, thank you All I want to say is I want to thank select board for its patience You you've had to go through a lot for something that we we've believed It's pretty straightforward. We really wanted to do something very basic and and good for people who are in recovery Every year we get a we get it last year We got a couple of thousand applications for affordable housing. We're able to fill 300 of those We have people who come to my office who are actually Sad and crying a little bit because they're not able to fulfill The mission as as strongly as we want them to do. This is not like making a choice It's not a sophies choice. We don't choose recovery over a low-income family or child We really have a difficult situation And and we're choosing to do this because we know that in fact right now This is a crisis and then there's an opportunity to do something really good We just brought on 76 apartments in and burlington. We got 60 coming on in south burlington in the next few months We got 30 are going up in in st. Albans. We'd like to do a lot more What my friend at the chitin county regional planning commission didn't say is if not for more money and capital We would do way more affordable housing that we possibly can This is not like we you know, we like this people more than those people It's hard. It's a tough decision to do. So I just wanted to pass it on Mostly to for you to understand how we frame this how we think about this We created home ownership. We created formal apartments We we lean into working with groups like steps for domestic violence and recovery housing to do good social work type of housing And it's it's difficult for us and and we appreciate your patience We appreciate certainly the most of the comments coming from the neighborhood in terms of seeing the changes that they have to They may have to go through But we believe at the end of it. It's going to be a good thing I appreciate you're making that distinction. That's very good um What is it possible two things? So the recommendation that we're asked being asked to approve this evening is to approve the signing of the resolution so What we're saying now is we're going to give you some time And we're going to approve opening the application and starting the process and then When the application is complete and you're ready to come to us and ask us to approve it Then we'll have a conversation to see how you came How you addressed our concerns and then we'll decide whether to approve does that sound about right board members Okay, um, what is the possibility of Making sure that each family that is relocated stays in Essex We'll offer them that opportunity and and we'll work with them on that and a part of reason why We could be Was squishy on those other four apartments is because we want to be able to sort of relocate people And then we think if that takes some time So so that's essentially the reason why is we wanted the people first choices We had to start the clock on the impact study until we had enough people in there for the impact study to be valuable So we're trying to juggle both of them. Yeah, so it's just so so working with those families to make sure that they're getting If it if it's a priority for the family to stay in Essex Then we'll work to find them a place in Essex Especially the families that have kids If that's a priority for them if they say I really need I want to stay in Essex My kids are in the Essex schools Then we'll work with them to find a place in Essex Some people are actually open to moving to other places and we'll certainly work with them If they want to move someplace else Thank you for taking the time to answer all these questions and there will be more So board members Andy So this is a 30-year commitment on our part as well because we're going to have to do annual reports and just want to That's right. We're okay with with doing that if we end up there Is that is an official question? Are we okay? I phrased it as a statement, but I guess it is a question. Is are we okay with 30 years commitment of The future finance director will take on the second the second 20 years Yeah, listen if this is the will of the community staff will do the reporting as it will we have a We're going to end up doing a single audit We may or may not have to do a single audit every year, but there'll be many where we will and and We'll be asking the select board for The proper staffing to be able to do all the work that we have But if this is the will of the community staff will get it done And the reporting is not particularly onerous. We have a few other projects. It's it's Takes half a day to remember how to do the system My And if you accidentally hit the wrong button before the right button, then you're really Making phone calls to the agency, but Work for a company that has those those things too But our main stuff is that they provide most if not all the information We just have to go through the audit and we are the pass through So it's the the additional potential additional audit responsibility. That's the the bigger Factor for us that we would have to make sure we find and unlike some grants that are A project the project's over You you know, you've paid everybody and then you close out This one doesn't seem to end For about 30 32 years Based upon the remaining paperwork that'll end But that's what grant money is about Grant programs of this long nature Okay, can I ask another question? Of course you can on this side the uh just to be just to be clear once again the You're going to occupy one building then a second building then six months after the second building or enough people Are in it to make an appropriate assessment you're going to come back and ask the select board for permission to occupy the third building That's what you've proposed that was the phasing proposal We had proposed right so you there is a A direct specific interlock with with this board again before before it goes to full occupancy Right right right so oh that's a good point you said establish clarity ahead of time so that When you come back I don't you know, I don't want I don't want that the It would be unfortunate if if You know all of us might not still be sitting here at that point If we don't have established criteria ahead of time there could be a difference of opinion that could do rail things and I don't want to Or I didn't say I'm in favor of Going forward with this And I do support your proposal for the the phasing and I I understand the the question about a couple of more months Assessment may be appropriate and thank you for considering that Okay, I just want to be sure that was clear that we're you're going to look and see if you could have an alternate phasing approach that allows more time And before we wrap things up I just would like to know if chief gary would you like to make any comments on the process or the phasing proposal Your thoughts It's okay. If not Okay, thank you All right, okay. Thank you very much Um, so select board members page six of your packet section 5a There's a recommendation on the bottom of page six and We we should alter this recommendation before we make our motion So I have to go and open the big packet file. Is that what you're saying page six of It's page six of section the memo for for the public hearing for 5a I actually never used the big packet. I use the individual documents So and if you can wordsmith it so that we're only approving About where it was So the the intent then is to Uh, authorize the okay, I removed that the select board authorized town staff to Open the application for on behalf of Champlain housing trust and the vermont community Oh, no, sorry Champlain housing trust. Is that the only applicant? Yes behalf of champlain housing trust Uh On seeking a seven seven hundred thousand dollar grant from the state's vermont community development program um For the creation of 32 bed recovery housing project in fort euthan island So did I say that right well done. So that's just to open just to open the application. I'll second Max second Any further discussion? Andy I just just just want to repeat. I think what I heard just make sure I understood it was that you Said that you cannot you can't keep these three buildings as a you can afford to have these buildings be affordable housing Because of the amount of debt that's on them anyway and so that They're They're Their existence or their purpose needs to change any you know to something There was a Also a comment they needed to talk to the school district. That's right There will be the requirement of the study which I believe they should be talking to staff Uh about said study and the clarifications And those are the notes that I have for the actual And they're going to confirm with us whether the um department of housing and community development will allow The grant funds to be used to pay it off debt, right? So Okay There is a motion on the table and a second any further discussion All those in favor, please signify by saying I I opposed Thank you very much Thank you all for coming And thank you all for participating in the hearing and Yes, I would say if any I feel like if anyone didn't understand pieces they should ask us I can't hear you My anxiety is if anyone didn't understand what we just like I want them to ask before they leave Let me actually get her Let me try to spell the last name right We will absolutely have our attorney We're still on camera. I appreciate Sir, we're still in we're still have a meeting going on. Yes, you're absolutely right. Thank you We're taking it very seriously. I hope you've seen that Absolutely, thank you. It's a very good idea Well, of course we will do that I appreciate you're reminding us of that responsibility I move to adjourn Seeing as we do not have an executive session this evening. Yes, we'll move to adjourn Max Second I second All those in favor of adjournment, please say I I opposed Okay, come on up. Sorry about that Those are from low income affordable houses Thanks very much So much as being in control