 Just to give you a bit of an overview of tonight's agenda, we're going to give you a project overview. Go over the project's timeline as this project has been ongoing for about a year and a half. Give you an idea of the project goals that were established through public consultation. Review existing conditions. I'm sure everybody's very familiar with the existing conditions, but just to see it from our perspective and also just from a road engineering, how everything works together perspective. We'll give you an overview of the public input so far and then we'll present you with some alternatives for Berry Street, the Berrymont Main Street intersection as well as Main Street and then some short term projects that are possible and then next steps and then as Mayor Watson mentioned we'll have questions. So from the RFP that was issued by the city, the study will address alternatives to improve north, south and east-west connectivity for bicycles and pedestrians throughout the downtown. It will include analyzing traffic control techniques at intersections as well as possible connectivity improvements using adjacent streets, pedestrian crossing locations and on-road bicycle facilities. So just to let you know, our project area is Berry Street between Main Street and the Rec Center and also Main Street from Memorial Drive to the Spring Street roundabout essentially. Although everything else is connected evidently, it's like a spider web. You can't just pull one part of it out and then reconnect it. It doesn't work that way, but this is the main focus area. So we're very well aware that everything works together and that's part of the kind of puzzle that we've been working on. So in terms of the project timeline, the project was kicked off in January 2017 and now we're down here to 2019 and here we are in the public input portion of the project and we've been working on a final report with our existing conditions and the alternatives that we're presenting to you and obviously the public input piece. So our project goal is to meet the needs of people walking, cycling and driving in mob pillar by four different methods. First we're looking at increasing the mobility of options for all ages and abilities. We're trying to fill the gaps of the existing pedestrian and bicycle network by connecting the bike path to downtown and within itself in downtown. We're trying to identify upgrades in safety to the existing pedestrian circulation networks and improving the efficiency of intersections within the project area to improve the flow, connectivity and safety of vehicular traffic. So it's really about all the modes of transportation working together in a more effective way but especially safety and making options available for multimodal transportation. So with our changing demographics, young families, seniors, mobility challenges, what have you, let's make sure that there are facilities available so we have options essentially in Mount Pillar. So everybody's probably had a chance to drive around Mount Pillar at some point in time and sometimes it can be efficient and flow and then sometimes there are queues at the high peaks of the hours usually before school starts or at the end of school during pickup or when everybody's trying to get to work in the morning. And then walking in Mount Pillar can be very pleasant. We have good pedestrian facilities in terms of wide enough sidewalks and we have tree canopies in some locations. We have amenities like benches and trash cans and lighting. Not necessarily enough of the lighting piece but we do have facilities. And then there are the challenges of walking in Mount Pillar. Super long crosswalks in some locations notably Main and School Street where you're leaving the library and your car is on the other side of the road or you want to go to the uncommon market and the width of the crosswalk is very long and the visibility is challenging. And then of course we have the mid-block crosswalks which for example the one near Albichon's or near Three Penny where you're coming out and you're next to cars that are parked so it's hard for you to see the oncoming traffic as a pedestrian and as a driver you have a hard time seeing pedestrians. So there's challenges for everybody in those situations. And then there's the part the days where you just give up on the crosswalks and you decide to jaywalk willy-nilly anywhere because the desire lines are there. There's a connection on the other side of the street which is Shaw's and you're coming from the other building or the bank and you want to cross the street and you don't want to have to do the whole three crossing situation. And everybody's done it at some point. It just causes circulation challenges and it's a safety hazard. And then there's biking in Mount Pillar. Some people are confident to ride around their bikes anywhere in the city anywhere in any city. I used to be one of those people. I rode in Toronto and Phoenix. I didn't have a problem with it. But then I had kids. And then I started being one of these individuals who took to the sidewalks or at least I put my kids on the sidewalk when they're learning to ride a bike in town. And I know this has been a hot topic on Front Porch Forum the past couple weeks. And honestly I understand why people are riding on sidewalks because I have a fear of the cars and there and as a motorist I have a fear of the cyclists. So it's kind of a challenge on both sides. So in terms of the bicycle infrastructure in Mount Pillar we have what exists. You see the the darker lines or some kind of facility whether that's that's Sharrows which is the markings on the ground that says motorists are supposed to share the street with cyclists or we have bicycle paths or shared use path along the river. And then we have what people are riding. Strider rides or documentations of confident riders that ride everywhere. And you can see in the next slide that there's a disconnect between the facilities that we have and where people are who are confident riders are riding. Oh the line is just the dark darker lines. For example this is Elm where there's a bike lane and then you have the bike path and then various other Sharrows and other systems. So in terms of public input we had our first public input engagement at town meeting day in 2018 where we tabled outside the voting area. So we had quite a few people stop by and talk to us about the process. And this was only when we were at existing conditions. So we were only in the point of looking at what's there what exists. What are the problems and hearing what people thought were the problems from their perspective. And then we also at the same time had an online map where people could go in and provide comments via map if they weren't able to meet us on town meeting day. And then we had an alternate presentation in August last year to give preliminary information about where we were in the design process and the options that were being developed. We did a preliminary presentation to city council in the spring. And then here we are today in July doing other alternatives presentation so that more people can have access to the process and also the options that we've developed. So in terms of public input during town meeting day which was collecting information about what works and what doesn't work in Montpelier. And these are the areas in red where there was public input. The red is it doesn't work. So you can see a bit of a concentration there just just a little bit. And then the areas that work for example the newly installed four-way stop at Almond Spring Street which everybody seems to appreciate having been in a good change. And then you have the predominantly red Main Street and the predominantly red Berry Street which ironically is our project area. So in terms of hotspots during the public input besides the map we compiled comments and then saw what came to the top. And the first thing that came was Berry and Main Street intersection which won't be surprising to residents of Montpelier. Traffic control is needed whether that's a roundabout or a single and walking across Main Street feels unsafe with chaotic vehicle traffic and width. And I'd say the same thing from a vehicular perspective it's kind of playing chicken all the time when you're trying to turn left from Berry Street and the same when you're trying to get into Berry Street. And then other comments on Berry Street the sight lines from driveways because they're blocked. You're blocked when you're driving coming out of your driveway by the parked cars along the street. And then there were suggestions of removing parking on one side or the other of Berry Street or converting it to a one-way operation. And then I'll just go a bit quickly for the Main Street portion because we're focusing a little bit more on Berry Street tonight. But the Main Street crossing at Langdon Street yielding to pedestrians especially when you've just finally gotten that green light at Main and State and then you have to stop again at the pedestrian crosswalk is torture for drivers. It's also torturous for pedestrians because they step out into traffic and sometimes you don't know if the car is going to stop or not. And then queued vehicles are blocking the sight lines and also they're turning into Langdon Street and other issues that ensue from that. And then State and Main Street intersection needs to be made more bicycle friendly. And then the waiting time is long because of the... What's it called, Julia? The Exclusive Pedestrian Signal. So everybody has to wait their turn and not everybody's that patient. And then at the same way if you're a pedestrian you have to wait through all those cycles for the different directions of traffic to go through. It can be kind of daunting. And so that's where you get people crossing other places like the near three pennies using that crosswalk or walking across the crosswalk at East State Street when they shouldn't be. And then the School Street and Main Street intersection it's a very long crosswalk and everybody or the people who provided comments about it also agreed. And there is higher speeds because the street widens at that point. So it feels more like you're ready to press on the gas a little bit more because you have less of the building encroaching onto the street which usually makes people slow down a little bit more and there is less vegetation as well. And then there is angle parking. And then the traffic control as needed was the comment and to consider a four-way stop like the Spring and Elm Street. Since that was so successful it was seen as a possibility by the public at school in Maine. So who are we designing bicycle facilities for? We had some comments in previous public input sessions where confident riders feel like we don't need any additional bicycling facilities but those are the confident riders down here that end up being about 1% of the population. And these are general figures from across the nation but I'd say it's the same in Montpelier. And then so they can tolerate a lot more stress which means they can tolerate cars backing up possibly opening their doors when they're parallel parked. They can tolerate trucks going by them. They're okay, they're in their zone. And then you have the somewhat confident riders who are still, they're a bit, they have a little bit of an ease when they're riding their bicycles but they still take it on. And then we have the rest of the population which is the 60% end up being about 60% of population that won't ride downtown Montpelier. And it's because they won't tolerate the lower stress. The idea of getting hit by a car outweighs the benefit of riding a bicycle. So there are several bicycle infrastructure options that we looked at and that are available to us. There's a shared lane marking which are Sheroes which we have on State Street. We have shoulder bikeways which are on Elm Street if you pass the bakery. And then there are bike lanes where there's a stripe line and then the bicycle symbol is there and bicycles have a dedicated space on the road. However, there are other options. There are buffered bike lanes which means there's a three or two three foot protected zone between traffic and the bicycle. So that if ever there's debris in the bike lane which is pretty consistent and often or a catch basin that you're trying to avoid you have a bit of space. But also it just gives you that extra buffer reassurance that between the two modes of transportation and that we have on the very Montpelier Road. And then the other option is to actually put physical barriers in between this bike lane and the vehicular traffic. Which could be, oh actually, yes. Which could be planters, which could be ballards, which could be other physical barriers which increases the feeling of safety even more and is safer. And then if you go even further there is a possibility of having the bike facility elevated from the road but still next to the road and or shared with pedestrians. So it's different facilities and options. So back to the project. Berry Street, what is the focus of Berry Street? It's connecting the existing and the in construction as everybody has surely seen on the other side of the road, the shared use path or bike path that's coming. Because you have the path that will end next to Shaw's and then you have the path that starts again at the rec center and goes towards the co-op and then there's another piece that's being built towards the golf course. But there's nothing in between that. So we need to have that connection for bicycle facilities. And then it's also about improving sight lines when people are leaving their driveways because of proximity of the park cars. So one thing to take in, we took into consideration as we were looking at option and designing possible solutions to this issue was to remember where the alignment of the bike path ends next to Shaw's and where it is at the rec center. It's on the south side of Berry Street. So just keep that in mind. And then what's the focus of the Berry Street and Main Street intersection? Well, we've seen and I'm sure most people in this room will agree it's unsafe for all users from pedestrians to cyclists to motorists just because of the utter confusion that ensues when anybody's coming from more than one direction, essentially. And then we know that a traffic control is essential at that intersection. The question is what it is. Is it around about? Is it traffic singles? Because obviously the stop sign is not effective. So the alternatives that we came up with were a shared use path, also called a side path because it's next to the road. It's a more technical term with roundabouts or with singles, a buffered two way bikeway which means there's a space and something between the bike lane and the vehicular traffic but can be on is on the road level. And then there's buffered bike lanes. So the existing conditions from a plan perspective, we have the in construction shared use path, also known as a bike path. And then all the way to where Schanz is. And then we have the rec center where the path is existing and then connects down. And then so you have this piece that does not have a bicycle facility. It does have sidewalks on both sides but the sidewalks are also close to the parking. So walking is not the most pleasant experience on Berry Street, although at least we have sidewalks and they're at a good width. So Berry Street, our first option is the shared use path with a mini roundabout. And so here's the potential mini roundabout and it would require a bit of right of way in some areas if it were installed. So that means easements and also the challenges of relocating six cash basins. This comes into more of a cost perspective and constructability. So you have the shared use path we talked about and then the proposed on this side and this slide, the shared use path is on the north side and it also has green buffers which would allow a little bit of room for snow deposits during the winter which I know becomes its own traffic calming measure on Berry Street. And then parking is removed on this side to be able to accommodate the shared use path. And then the parking is retained on the southern side. So looking at the roundabout, a mini roundabout, this one avoids the railroad from cutting through the middle of the roundabout and now you'll see why I'm saying it's avoiding cutting because there's another option that cuts through the railroad track. And so it minimizes the need for easements even though we would probably need some, it's not as challenging as getting one from the railroad. So this option is also part of transforming all the intersections along Main Street into roundabouts or mini roundabouts and it results in the most improvement in terms of vehicular flow of traffic through the corridor. However, if you're looking at it from a pedestrian or a cyclist perspective, it would require three crossings of streets or minor roads to be able to connect the two parts of the shared use path or bike path. So you'd be crossing up here if that becomes a road that's to be debated. And then you'd be crossing Main Street and then you'd be crossing Berry Street down here if it remained on the north side which in terms of a mini roundabout or a roundabout would need to be on this crossing would need to be on this side because of the railway challenge here. So this is an example of a section of that road and how it would be if that were implemented. So you can see the shared use path here and the little buffer where some snow can be deposited. And then our second option for Berry Street is a shared use path with a single. It addresses the challenges of circulation at Main and Berry Street. Fewer parking streets are impacted and that's because we're showing the shared use path on the southern side of Berry Street. And it preserves the parking along the northern side which means the senior center. It also means the church and also some residences on that side. And in terms of benefits because you're we're adding in a traffic signal we can have a crosswalk here so that this connection is possible straight down. So you're only crossing Main Street once and that's what I'm showing here. And it's the same same section just the reverse side for Berry Street. And then we have a third option which is a two way protected bike lane along Berry Street which is shown on the southern side here. And it's a combination of minimums which means it does not reduce the amount of parking that's taken away and it doesn't necessarily address some of the traffic conflicts in it. But the thing is it introduces a new type of facility. So rather than be removed from the traffic completely by being at the same level as a sidewalk it's actually on the road. And then there are two direct two it's two directional for the bicycle lane. And then to be able to install this along Berry Street we'd have to reduce the width of the travel lanes on Berry Street which could help slow down traffic but may also be more challenging to navigate. But this is the lowest cost option. So this is what the section would look like if you were on the road walking your dog. So this is the protected piece and then you can see the bicycle facilities at grade with the cars. So those are the three Berry Street options. So we've shown the shared use path with the roundabout the shared use path with the single two way protected bike lanes which was the last one. And when we were developing the alternatives we also had a fourth option which was one way protected bike lanes. However that would mean removing parking on both sides of Berry Street so you can imagine why we didn't keep going that way. It was the safest design however from a bicycle perspective but in order to preserve some parking we did not explore that further. Now in terms of Main Street the focus is addressing safety improving connectivity and circulation for all users and determining the best traffic control at all the intersections. And as well as I've mentioned before the visibility of crossing at some of the crosswalks or most of the crosswalks. So we're taking into consideration queuing during peak times and the absence complete absence of bicycle facilities on Main Street. So the Main Street State Street intersection the focus is pedestrian safety and improving the level of service which means how many cars can get through the intersection and everybody can circulate in a certain amount of time, right? And then we're taking into consideration that the intersection is not square, it's a skew. So it's a challenging intersection to modify especially because our building stock is historic so we're not going to be suggesting removing buildings to go back. And the Main Street and School Street intersection the focus is on pedestrian safety and increasing the visibility of oncoming traffic and for all modes of transportation. So one thing to take into consideration when thinking about this intersection is that per studies it meets traffic single warrant but it does not meet an always stop warrant which means stop signs would not work at that intersection mainly because Main Street has way more traffic than School Street. So it would just make everybody go slower on Main and that would just cause some uproar. And also it does meet traffic single warrants because of the volume of traffic and the numbers of pedestrians that cross the street. In terms of the Langdon Street crosswalk everybody knows crossing through queued traffic can be kind of treacherous and then the queued vehicles also obscure the pedestrians trying to cross and then you're blocking traffic all the time is how it feels like I think at that point. So in terms of the Main Street alternatives we looked at singles with bike lanes roundabouts with bike lanes and a hybrid of roundabout and singles that means a combination of some intersections would have roundabouts others would get traffic singles if they don't already have them. And then the fourth option was developed during a different study which was called Meeting America's Capitals and proposed a bikeway on Elm Street and did not have any bike facilities along Main Street at all. So I'm going to go through those. So this is the existing conditions everyone's familiar with them I'm certain. This being School Street intersection and State Street intersection and this is where the section is down here. So the first option singles with bike lanes is it's an opportunity to add raised pedestrian crossings at Main and State here. New crosswalk on the south leg of Main... Sorry, Main and Berry. Thank you, Julia. And then the Langdon Street crosswalk is moved 80 feet north to line with haze in place so there would be more space for cars to get into that position on Main Street when you're traveling north and then reduce the number of the stopping go kind of situation. And then at Berry and Main Street we're looking at a new single and a new single at school in Main. So this is what the cross section would look like with bike lanes at grade on one side one is protected as you can see here and one is not that's just due to space constraints. And then the second option is looking at roundabouts with protected lanes. So you can see there's roundabouts at every intersection and we're removing because there is roundabouts you can remove the left lane. So there's more space in terms of the width of the road to work with so you can add the protected bike lane. And then there's an idea of a raised pedestrian crossing at Langdon Street which continues on to becoming a pedestrian street. And then but the challenge, oh here's the benefit one of the main benefits of this option it reduces the length of crosswalks because you have the little islands in the roundabout where you can stop and then cross the next section. The challenge is with a roundabout at East or a State Street and Main Street is you cannot have traffic from East State Street join the roundabout. So anybody who would be coming down East State Street would be obligated to turn right onto Main Street and then down Langdon Street and then come back if they were on their way to State Street. Otherwise they would go on to Cedar if they knew ahead I would say and then on to School Street and then back if they wanted to go on to Main Street which if anybody's been down Cedar Street when it's school pickup you don't want to be doing that. But it would also well and these are what we anticipate the traffic flow would what would happen in this area but it's just good to know what to anticipate in that design. So this would be the section with the roundabouts with protected bike lanes. So you can see there's a raised planter or other structure in between the bike lane on both sides of the road. Because again by removing that left turn lane we have more space to work with in terms of bicycle facilities and we're retaining parking on both sides. A third option that we looked at was a hybrid. So a combination of roundabouts in some areas and then traffic signals in others. For example we have a mini roundabout at Main and State and we have one at Main and School Street and then the signal as it is remains on Main and State Street or sorry that was School Street, State Street. For Main Street there's also the crosswalk is moved back 30 feet which would hopefully have some impact on the use of this crosswalk. And then it's a combination of bike lanes and buffer bike lanes because of the how much space we have to work with the street because we do have left turning lanes on from Main to State. This option retains the most parking. And this is two cross sections of the potential in different areas. So you have bike lanes that are protected in some areas of the road and then others there's a protected bike lane and then one that's not. In terms of the Langdon Street crosswalk some options to consider is that well evidently there's a strong desire line between city center and the Main Street retail block. So removing a crossing or adding one closer to here would be one option in terms of the third proposal. Adding a raised crosswalk at Langdon Street here which was also in one of them and then relocate the crosswalk further away from the single to Hayes in place which would give more cars the chance to get through the light before they have to stop for pedestrian which may reduce some frustration. And then the fourth option which is based on Greening America's Capital which was work that was done prior to us looked at adding roundabouts at State and Main and then the roundabout at Main and Berry Street. This is what I was talking about earlier where the railway would cross through the roundabout which would be very challenging. And then here we have a roundabout at State and Main which I discussed would make it impossible for this leg to join the roundabout so you'd have to do the detour. Yes. And then in this proposal there were no bicycle facilities provided at all on Main Street. There was a possibility of bicycle facilities on Elm Street. So that's the section. So we briefly discussed a roundabout at Main and State which would provide prohibit the left turning as you can see there would be one of those islands resting for cross crossing and then you'd have to turn left. And that's that again. I'm sorry I'm repeating myself. So it would increase volumes of traffic on Langdon Street and then left turns on to State Street which you know can be difficult from Elm already and then turning right onto Main Street would be another option besides Cedar. And then so part of this option as I mentioned would be having a bike route along Elm Street. So Elm Street would become one way from School Street to State Street. And then on Street parking would be removed from one side of the road to be able to accommodate bicycle facilities and the one way situation. So for this example of Elm Street the level of service impact would be as illustrated so you have traffic coming both ways from School to Court and then one way this way. So a lot if you were going to try and find your way from Elm Street you'd be going down to Main onto Langdon then onto Elm Street or going down to the roundabout which would add more traffic onto Main Street. So here are some pros and cons of the Main Street options. The singles, the roundabouts hybrid and the Greening America's capital. In terms of the singles, all singles throughout the corridor has a least amount of change to the curb lines of the road which means it's a less cost. But to add in the bicycle facilities would have a greater reduction of parking and then there's not necessarily an improvement to the traffic flow and then there are more lanes to cross as a pedestrian at Berry if we did the triangular option. In terms of the roundabout it has the most improvement to vehicular traffic flow. It preserves more parking and it reduces the lanes for pedestrians crossing Main onto Berry. But it's more expensive. There may be some impacts to the right of way in terms of needing an easement which adds to the cost and then there's an inconvenient diversion of traffic if you're doing the roundabout at Main and State Street and then bicycles would have to mix with pedestrians or with traffic at roundabouts which is an important thing to note because we have a compact downtown there's not enough room to add in a bicycle lane going around the roundabout which would be an option in a place where you've got to start from scratch. So technically a bicyclist would either have to get on the sidewalk at that point of the roundabout and mix with pedestrians or would have to mix with the traffic which can be challenging and then you're not meeting necessarily the 60% who would bike through downtown. And then we have the hybrid which was a mix of singles and roundabouts, mini roundabouts. It has a more affordable cost in doing roundabouts throughout. Reduces lanes for pedestrians crossing and preserves some parking. But there might be some peak hour traffic backups through Berry and Main roundabout or if there wasn't a roundabout it would also not necessarily improve the traffic flow. And then the Greening America's Capitol pros it preserves the most parking because there aren't any bicycle facilities along Main and it makes you could have a lot more features along Main Street because you could address street furnishings and that kind of thing. But it also has a high cost. As I mentioned there's no bicycle facilities along Main. There are inconvenient diversions either on Elm Street because of the one way bicycle facility, one way street I should say and then the diversion from East State and Main Street. So in terms of the parking here's a quick summary of the different options. We're here for existing no bicycle facilities the Greening America's Capitol and this on Main Street. No, sorry, total parking. No bicycle facilities on Main Street and then the M1 which was the traffic singles, M2 which was roundabouts and then three which was a mix of the two. And this just illustrates the space dedicated to vehicles in general downtown. So roundabouts versus singles has been ongoing conversation within the steering committee and the town and us and there are concerns on both sides for either or option but keep in mind that the whole system works together like I mentioned, it's like a spider web you can't just think of one roundabout or one intersection on its own it really affects everything else. It's like a domino. So some of our concerns about roundabouts is that you'd have to as I mentioned either share traffic with pedestrians or with traffic when you get to a roundabout. The traffic diversions that we've talked about the encroachment onto the railroad whether that's a mini roundabout cutting one of the lake the railroad cutting one of the lakes of the roundabout or going straight through in the greening America's capital option. The queues from singles in the hybrid could lock up the roundabout and then the roundabout requires walkers to divert from a straight path. So when you're coming, you're approaching a road usually the crosswalk hopefully is in line with the other side of the road but with roundabouts because of the way it works you would kind of go off your intended path. And roundabouts are known to be challenging for individuals who are visually impaired or have challenges with visibility because you don't have the squeaking you don't have the everybody is stopping at some point so that there could be that safe crossing so it's something to consider when thinking of roundabouts. And then in terms of singles there's been a conversation about adaptive single controls which means all the singles would talk to each other so that when there's a higher peak more cars could flow through. But of course as someone mentioned at the last public input session technology only works when it works so there's always that. And then pedestrian phases they overall did just increase everybody's wait time so it's one thing to think about. So why think about protected bike lanes? There are best practices for providing low stress options for people who might not necessarily bike in a downtown situation and it looks a response to the goals of the Montpelier in motion report which was also done before our time and the complete streets plan. And it takes advantage of people who bring it brings in people on bikes to enjoy downtown but also connect them also to the central Vermont bike path which is getting longer and longer every day. Which is awesome. What do they look like? When they're raised they are next to the sidewalk usually the furnishings also called trees or benches are in between the two. And so I know a lot of people have fear that if it's at the same level that nobody will know where their place is but usually there's a different pavement also utilized so it's evident where pedestrians should be and cyclists should be. And then it also at the same time of installing something like this you could do bump outs or curb extensions so that people crossing could be more visible when they're before they step out into traffic. So in terms of the protected bike lanes sidewalk widths remain the same or they're widened in some cases as you can see comparing the sections. We're not talking about taking away bicycle or pedestrian facilities or encroaching on them we're just trying to ameliorate another facility. So in terms of short term projects in oops in our project area restriping main and berry streets within the existing curves to provide bicycle lanes would be one first step of something that could be done. And then building curb extensions at all the crosswalks that are problematic currently would be another step that could be done in the short term even if it's just with temporary bulb outs which is being done in Bethel right now the second year in a row that they've done that kind of testing it out and filling it out and getting a sense and getting feedback from people. And then just so you know there's a lot of push these days for a rapid implementation strategy which means trying something in the short term and for less money so that you can test it get people's feedback again and get some momentum going. So these are other examples of things that have been done a demonstration project, a pop-up bike lane for a weekend or a month and then you have other curb extensions here you see just used with paint and some box planters some interim designs just to try things out with paint again and then or moving towards a permanent installation. And then quick build has been happening a lot in Burlington and other places close by or further away in Brazil. For example, there's a quick build with a delineator posts here of a bike lane in Burlington and also that kind of curb extension with paint on the ground. So this is that grade with the road it's just paint and then some higher planters very visible. And then here a mini roundabout in Sao Paulo, Brazil to try it out with paint. Just with paint. So short-term projects, I mentioned some of that and then I think the mini roundabout option at school and main would be another idea for rapid implementation like seeing there I did in Sao Paulo, Brazil trying it out with paint. So just for the short-term cost estimates this is what we're looking at for those kinds of quick ideas, quick build. So that's kind of an overview of all the alternatives and our next step is next week I'll be repeating myself at Kela Hubbard Library. So if you missed any parts you're more than welcome to come back or send your neighbors and then we'll have a final presentation to city council hopefully before the fall and then a final report submitted at the same time. Two more. Okay, so first we're gonna start with some just clarifying questions. What information could you use repeated or clarified or what not? So I'm gonna stand over here so that you can answer questions. A real quick one, what's a catch basin? Oh, sorry, it's like a manhole or a sewer box. Yes, so great, essentially. I think you mentioned raised crosswalks and I'm just wondering if that in effect is a speed bump. Well, it doesn't have the same impact as a speed bump in terms of being like two-two but it is a raised surface that's longer or wider than a speed bump. So it is definitely to sit down traffic control. Did you put some in the meadow? Because I know it's not sitting there. I'm on tear straight. I think it's nice in the meadow that unintersections of this look a little raised. Well, the meadows are beyond our project area but it's definitely something to consider. Right, but that's an example. Yes. Those are simple. Oh, it does exist tonight? Yes. Right here. Okay, I just want to say. I'm not saying that you should or not but I'm just making some briefings. One, in Indiana I believe you have four-way stops and everybody learned and everybody did. I mean, we were only there for four years but then we spent a month. We understood because we came from New York City and we didn't die but then we go. And we're to do it with everybody in number one. Number two, in Wisconsin and just outside of Milwaukee any kids from 12 or under could drive their bikes on the sidewalk. If you're over 12 you have to ride in the street. So kids have to be taught that, you know how you handle street riding. Number three, it's very difficult to see around the buses when there's stuff in front of the shores. Right. And if you're trying to come out you certainly can't see anything. If you're going past the bus you could just go into the other way. So thank you. Thank you. Yes. Have you considered putting education into the mix of this? As a cyclist who doesn't own a car and hasn't since 2003 and drove around in bigger cities than a failure for years. The education that I gave myself for the other people in me at the defensive cycling has made me feel very safe. So when I heard about the discussion of the main street portion of this I asked myself why? Because it feels very safe for me to navigate that. Yeah, it's slower, you know, but I don't mind that. But it's such a short stretch. And if you have good defensive riding skills then that is what helps, not, you know so is there, does that come up? Like a city-wide educational program Also some DMVs, I don't know if this has happened in Vermont or not, but in other states then DMVs have required to get a license or to renew your license that you have to study bike safety for a car, you know, driving and those two things, I know that's out of the purview of the city council that those two things I think should be in the mix of this. I think I can make this one. Sure. I don't think that has been a part of your study as an education. No. Okay, so, but I'm really glad that you brought that up and I think it needs to be a part of the mix and in fact I was actually just talking with city councilor Bate earlier today about the need for some education to be around for both vehicles and bicyclists, how to navigate the city with each other and that we might enlist the help of some other local organizations to do that. So, but thank you for bringing that up. That's a really good point. Yeah, do you know the League of American Bicyclists has programs for that that they offer around the country where people will come out and offer that? Cool, well, let's talk after. That's great, super, thank you. Yeah, back there then, here, yeah. So, I'm just concerned about removing a parking on Berry Street right near the intersection of Berry Main and how that will ripple up Berry Street. So it seems to me the upper part by Kiss May, like during the winter months, especially with dual side parking, if you live up there, it is a nightmare and people don't think it's two ways, people's mirrors are getting knocked off, people don't know how to drive, like aren't used to that narrower street and it's, I think the problem with Berry Street goes out much further up than the study area, especially with the new caving, people are coming down Berry Street faster. I mean, I guess we'll all see how that works this winter, but it's always a relief when spring comes around and someone who lives there that you're not risking their life. Fair enough, thank you. Yeah, I was just saying education is always a good idea, but Montlear is like 50% tours, so you can't educate them and so you really have to build that into the whole mix of, they don't know, sure. John, then here, yeah, good. You've done a great job of letting out possibilities. I think we all need to recognize that nobody's gonna be happy in the end and something's gonna happen and that we all have a voice in it now versus what it's done and we can adapt to changes. That said, I would love to see the city also bump sooner than later a traffic study of Berry Street because I think that's an element that's missing there and would help define what kind of traffic, which directions, how far it goes, all those sorts of questions that need to be answered to really get the best solution at that intersection. Yeah, oh, and then it's not, yeah. First to comment, I live up when kind of chill and when I'm biking, I avoid statement name. Just, I won't go there, it's terrible. It's unstable to stop when you're stopping, when you're starting up and all that. I go down Cedar and across school, up court, I just stay out at the center of town all together, just comment. I have a question, though. Was there any consideration given, I'm not sure who I'm supposed to be addressing. So, was there any consideration given to routing bicycle traffic onto Stonecutter's way instead of going all the way down to Berry Street? I didn't see that address. Now I know it's difficult. I carry my bike across the railroad tracks and go down to that Sarducci, but any consideration to that would that simplify things or make them hard? We did look at that at the very beginning, but because of the railway tracks and the right of way of the railway and the proximity of the buildings to the actual railway, there isn't space in the beginning for that option to get there, right? And then once, and then there are challenges with getting an easement from the railway to do that, but mainly the space just doesn't allow it from that perspective. But yes, that was definitely one thing we looked at from the very beginning. Oh, sorry, no. Any consideration given to bridges, pedestrian or bicycle bridges over any of the roads? We did not look at bridges. It's usually cost prohibitive. Really? I'll go to you. Okay, Ron and I. Yeah, I have two questions. Number one, for me as a cyclist, the roundabouts are very confusing because you don't know at which intersection the cars that are right behind you will cross. There is one exception, and that's between River Street just before you get up to the barry mile to your road where they have crossings, designated crossings for bicyclists. So that's something that in my opinion, you might keep in mind. The other thing is that you passed so quickly from me the last picture of the costs. I wonder if you could go back there and only so perceive one or see one thing. Oh, yes, it's just for the short-term options in terms of quick build. Yes. Gather and just do a few things. Oh, yes. So Berry Street for protected bike lanes just to put paint on the ground essentially is about $50,000. These are high-level estimates. And then the school main street intersection of doing similar paint for a mini roundabout with quick build materials is about $30,000. Okay, back here. In the M3 hybrid option, does it make a material difference if you consider a roundabout at Vayner Memorial Drive in addition to the other roundabouts there? Because this option had that as a signal still. What if that were also roundabout like in the M2 option? So I would just say that the maintenance points are getting through downtown. So like sometimes traffic backs up even through Vayner Memorial. So the traffic control there is not necessarily the same as what's happening now. Right, but I mean, does it affect the operation of making Berry, making Memorial is also a roundabout? Or is there any reason not to have that around the road? It's also a bad option. The biggest reason it works is to need to know if you stand up, please. I can't hear you. Come here, Julia. I can hear you. Okay. Well, the biggest reason at Vayner Memorial is their constructability. Like that's one of the highest volume, highest traffic volume areas in all of Montpelier, be a big construction project, really expensive, a lot of traffic. And I think the biggest traffic congestion piece at Vayner Berry is really northbound. So it's having to stop at State of Maine after going through Vayner Berry and Vayner Memorial. My question is, because in the roundabout option, you had all of them as roundabouts, including the Vayner Memorial. Yes. But in the hybrid, you left Vayner Memorial as a signal, and I was wondering, was that a cost rationale or something else to leave that as a signal in that option? Yeah, I mean, I think it's cost and flow of traffic. I mean, it's not off the table, but we just figured, because of the challenges of building that roundabout at Vayner Memorial. My understanding is that intersection is nearly non-functional already. Yeah. And the only possible improvement is a roundabout. Yeah. Which one? Which one? The one at the Memorial. Well, the only possible. And where was the study previously done up for the roundabout? Yeah, I've seen that for the last 20 hours. That's the cost. It's city times, I should have said that. City times. Yeah, right now, if you have a thought, feel free to raise your hand. Who's got a thumb? So I'm gonna keep your first hand. Okay, I've got a couple of comments. First of all, with the bump outs, I had a very good experience one night going past the middle school, where you've got that parking area, which has got two bump outs. Well, they're not painted, and I hit the one coming down into town, and that wasn't particularly good. That's number one. So if you're gonna have bump outs, you're gonna have to have something up there that's visible to most, particularly when the town has low parking, or snow, or anything like that. The question of traffic signals. If you're gonna put a traffic signal at the end of the barrier street, I would strongly recommend that it was controlled by the same controller that runs state and main. That's probably possible to do. And it would eliminate the problems that the two signals getting kind of singled each other. The third item is state and main. We're talking about roundabouts. What if you made an oval layer instead of a roundabout? In that way, state street, east state street, could still become part of that traffic path. In the beginning of our study, we realized that every option, like a kind of peanut shape, an oval, and a big issue with that is there's a lot of people that turn left onto state street from main street, so that turn would be really difficult and pretty much impossible for trucks because they would be doing that oval in this. I would have the same radius as the circle. No. Well, now you just make the round ends of the oval the same size as the radius of the circle. But it'd be like kind of a huge circle. You know, instead of turning it. Yeah, but so was a circle, basically. You'd have to see it on paper and wouldn't work. Moby, excuse me, we did look at it. We can continue that. The other thing is your route from east state street into either state street or left onto main street. Only all that traffic through the end of Elm Street would be a total disaster because it's just about as busy as main street is. And you're talking, asking people to make either a left turn on a very backed up section of Elm Street with nothing but a stop sign there. And there's speaking of visibility that's terrible on that point. All right, are there kinds of people who haven't gotten to speak yet? Let's see, there is one there. So we'll just go in order. So here and then there. Okay, great, super. So I am very much in favor of the roundabout at very and main. I'm not too sure about the rest of that. Okay, thank you. Yeah. I'm not in favor of the roundabout. Number one, you'll take all the parking out right in front of our businesses all up and down the street. It's a laundry mat. People have to carry their laundry and so on. Being someone that pays taxes for that space, you probably would like us to stay open versus closing our doors. Because if they can't carry their laundry to us, we are, I don't know if those are doors. It's hard to ask, but I'll keep you in that too. Thank you. It seems like the stop signals would work great if you sync them up, but also if you sync them up with the crosswalks. Having lived them up here my whole life, it made no sense to make it through a light just to stop when a pedestrian just feels like they wanna cross the road. Cities all usually sync up their crosswalks. So when everything's green, everybody stops. When everything's red, everybody goes. I think that would flow your traffic through from the bridge all the way to the end of the roundabout. You wouldn't need to do the roundabout. It just has to be synced and people can wait. Thank you. Oh, sorry, go ahead. Because we've got a couple of comments about syncing traffic controllers and traffic signals. The city is looking at the all signal option, the adaptive signal control that I mentioned. And really what that is is each signal, each intersection talks to each other and it anticipates what's going to happen down the line. So it'll say, well, I've got X amount of cars coming in this direction. It talks to them to come down and it says, okay, well, let these people go before they get to me. Really, what we see is reduced stops and delays by about 30% of the similar motor. So that is part of the all signal option. But is that control across the road as well? Yes. And just so you can introduce yourself. Oh, sorry, Cori lined with the other ones. Great, super. Cori, add to that. Sorry. We've got the adaptive lights. Would you explain more about how the flow changes though? Instead of being always the brain. So there is some training for people to use the intersections. So right now we are stopped at an intersection and we know they're going to go and they're going to go and then I'm going to go. That does not work like that. It can go, they're going to go, then I'm going to go and then they're going to go. So people have to pay attention. Interesting. Just because I called in some people, we go even and up here and then over here. Over here. That's great. So I have a concern about the conversion of the roundabout at East Day Street and Main Street. And I think it's a really bad idea to roundabout them. That it means you can't turn back because people who live up the hill will absolutely know to do the version that would go up to school street. And that would be so bad and dangerous for kids. And then I think in that same version with the roundabout and the re-routing of cars that they were to get over to Elm Street, you don't have to go on Landon Street. But then you also had another version that would like Landon Street pedestrian way at some point. So that includes it. So I think that roundabout at Main and State has so many substitutions to see if there's a reason they're not. Thank you. Thank you. That's a lot to you. I got a couple of questions for several of you. Actually, comments, too. So on Main and State, the signals, there is no bike lights across the cars, technically, at this point. I mean, we're not there at that point of detail yet. But that's always a possibility. Also want to mention that the bike lights, the traffic lights don't change if there's a bike waiting to run for red light. Right. And that's what we should address. Because we are behind you in the car, the light wasn't turning green. I think the biggest issue with the roundabout on Main and State is that we put the bike path on the north, which has just more crossings and is unsafe. And I think for that reason, it's not a good option. And then a question. I wonder if you looked into making some section of various street along the way to reduce the traffic. Yeah, we did. And the impacts of, like we're talking about not being able to turn left at State in Maine, having various street one-way, like the circulation impacts for traffic is even worse. Whichever direction it goes, you're really limiting access for neighborhoods and into downtown and out of downtown. Affecting the level of service is actually making it worse. My question sort of relates to that about the left hand turn from Main Street onto various street. And where Main Street and State Street are, you can turn left on the East State Street and there's a signal for turning left. So with a signal system at Main and Bay Area involved on left hand, I find that to be those two places to be two of the most dangerous places, like turning onto various street, I've been almost hit several times by people into the lane next to me, also turning on the various street or oncoming traffic and that dynamic. Yeah, or being blocked about being able to turn. With the signal system, does that include the left hand? Yeah, well, like Sophie said, we're not at that level of detail, but definitely for both lefts off of various street and onto various street, I would imagine there'd be like a protected phase where only people turning left are going. And I believe we've looked at a left hand turn at Main and State when you're going south instead of the right hand turn lane, which, oh, yes, so that if you're coming from Elm Street on Main towards State Street and you want to turn onto East State, maybe changing that to left hand turn rather than. Because we're not on the right. It's a right hand turn. Yes. And that way. Oh, I'm sorry. Ask it to you, yeah, right here, and then there. I really do like the idea of signals at intersections instead of traffic circles, largely because of what happens at night and lower visibility. I mean, one of the things to keep in mind is aging drivers who don't see as well at night, but are certainly out there, and pedestrians like me who can't see them. So a traffic light, people understand, even if they're from elsewhere. And it means that traffic stops. So I feel much safer. I don't cross at various street and main at night. I walk to State Street because my motto is better, safe, than flat. I just think that messing with traffic circles is very cool during the daytime, but I don't do that. Because I'm really vulnerable. Sure. Good point. I was in the middle of a raging incident the other day at the lights of where you come down Northfield Street and on Memorial Drive. And what happens is that when the light turns green for those who are traveling and going into Maine, there's a red light for people traveling east and west. But those people who want to take a right-hand turn onto Main Street just keep going, which means that those who want to get into Main Street from Northfield Street can't get in. So that's who it just holds that traffic everywhere. And then people start. I mean, the other night, oh my god, where have I gotten myself into? And thankfully, nobody got hurt, but it could have turned into, if somebody was really angry, it could have turned into something ugly. And I guess I just would like to see something done there where I know you want your right when you have a red light, but really, it's our turn to go. So I don't know what we do with something like this. So it's your no show, right? So before I call on people for a second time, is there anyone who hasn't spoken yet that would like to, yeah. So I have a motto too. And mine is a driver's drive and pedestrians shop. So I really love our downtown drive. So the more we can do to make it easy and safe for pedestrians, the better. So I just, and I was wondering about the laundromat, how those plans would impact on the laundromat and in terms of people being able to get out of their cars and carry their stuff, because that's a drive. So I just made me wonder, I saw many roundabout in Middlebury, but I really don't know the difference between a roundabout and a mini roundabout. And I love this idea of maybe a paint thing just to try and to see, but is there enough room there? And all those questions. So there is enough room for a mini roundabout and the difference between a roundabout and a mini roundabout is that the center island is totally mountable and a mini roundabout. So like a big truck could just drive straight over it for a bus. Because the idea is eventually they're going to need to get to Orbishon as the big truck so they can get to the back of Orbishon. Right, right, right, yeah. So it's almost like, you know, the roundabout on Elm Street or Spring Street and Main Street has a part of a mountable piece where the trucks go over. That's what I do. There were so many people that had issues with that. And now it's like, I love it. I ride my bike through it. And it's, you know, the traffic flows and it's safe. I'm sorry, you don't like them, Ron. But I do. It's important to know that the traffic volumes on Spring and Upper Main Street are a lot lower. Right, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I just didn't know that I could make it. Anyone else who hasn't spoken yet? OK, here, yeah, go ahead. I just wondered you have been talking about a quick fix with putting in a mini roundabout at school in May. And I'm just concerned about that particular option. Wouldn't traffic lights just be better? It's so small there. And I go to church on that corner. And I, you know, with the library and the bank and everything, I just don't see how you have room. It definitely fits. Pavement's actually really wide because there's a turning lane and then the angled parking. So it's a lot of pavement width. And I have another question. And someone with a disability who has a handicap plate, I hope you don't remove all the parking on Main Street. No, we're not removing anything. Because we need to have turned some of that parking into handicap accessible parking. Absolutely, it's not the intent to remove all the parking. And especially accessible parking. OK, all right. So number of folks have an up, let's go ahead. And then look at the second comment. I think it's going to be quiet. But I like the hybrid. And the things that I really liked about it, I like that parking on one side of Berry Street. I really like the bike paths connecting along there. I like the signal on Berry and Main. I like the signal on School and Main. I like getting rid of that cross mark on Lane Street, which really troubles everything up. Because if I get the, even I, when I get the big intersection of Main and Straight, if I miss the light, I run over there and I'm lost and stuff. And I don't like getting more traffic on Lane Street. And I don't like the roundabout on Main Street. So anyway, I like the time. So I'm going to take some second comments from folks and then see if there's any additional comments. People want to highlight something that they really liked. And then I want to make sure that we leave enough time for you to leave written comments. I'm going to excuse. But we have one more first comment back here. Yeah, go ahead. So I would support the roundabouts of Osmo City, because I think they slow down traffic in town, which I think is more important for pedestrian and cyclist safety, with lights able to zoom right through them with X-ray lights, where every roundabout you have to slow down to actually get through it. So that would improve conditions for all of that and for cyclists. And I think that's an important component of traffic in our town. Also, the signals might, like you said, have more capacity. But if we look at the traffic patterns, it's mostly at very specific times of day. So building excess capacity for those maybe an hour total for the whole day, when roundabouts suffice for 90% of the rest of the day, would be a better solution. And then also, it's slower for the department. OK, so I'm going to just go right down the row here. So we're going to start here and then get in. OK, yeah. OK, adaptive signal control. If you have true adaptive signal control, you're not going to be able to coordinate your traffic lights in any particular line. Because in order to coordinate your traffic lights, the time between light changes has to be figured out and programmed into the controllers. And I think adaptive signal time is kind of a step above coordinated signals. Yeah, but if we're not coordinated. But they are more than coordinated. You know, they're very, very nice talking to each other. In the first 10 years, we had a bunch of signals in there that were controlled by master controllers. And they were supposed to select an optimum program from about six programs with two different cycles. They never got off the ground as far as, you know, while I was there, they never really worked that way. It was just time to day signals. But they were supposed to add time or subtract time by choosing these different programs, day plans, or, you know, yeah, day plans. Yeah, and with adaptive signal timing, there's actually detectors installed at each signal to monitor. These had detectors installed at each signal. But not just in the ground. No, these were switched to visual, like TVs. Oh, cameras. Let's keep talking about that. Yeah, because that will also solve the bicycle problem. If you're sitting in the lane, in the program path of this camera, then the camera will detect you, send a signal to the controller, and tell out there's somebody waiting for the light to change. Yeah, fair enough. Thank you. Sure. Yeah. I'm against having a traffic circle at battery and lane, particularly because, well, first of all, we had very little discussion about pedestrians. Not that I am one, but it was all about bikes and cars. But, you know, what about pedestrians? What made me think of it was the picture in, I think it was in Brazil, where they're coming off the roundabout and coming down the street, and somebody just walking across the street. Now, if you're coming off the road, if you're coming south on Main Street and want to get on the ferry, you have to go around the roundabout. Then you get on the ferry. But what about people who are trying to cross the ferry street? The cars aren't going to stop or slow down when they come off the roundabout. So I think that's a fair question. Thank you. Sam, and then there. First of all, I want to thank you all for this great work that you're doing. And I know that it's not an ideal solution. And so some feedback I want to offer is I think it's crucial not to, cars need to be able to continue to go on to state speed, from East State and also from Main Street, because all businesses are there. And I'm sure you know that there are a lot to be really upset if you make that happen, and rightfully so. So I'm a cyclist, but I care about the businesses more than I care about myself as a cyclist in that situation, because if the businesses are hurting, then there's less reason for me to be running downtown to them. And then one of the pieces, I have gotten into head-on collisions in two-way bike lanes. Bicyclists are very dangerous. And just like drivers, they don't know what they're doing. And they're on their cell phones texting, and they're listening to their music, and they're zoned out. So please don't make a two-way bike lane. It's a very dangerous thing to have. Thank you. Here and then I want to make sure that we get to the comments. So are there written comments, but yeah, go ahead. OK, I think we've had a lot of different methods that we've seen that work. I think Main and State Street works, not with the pedestrian crosswalk at Landon, but it works for everybody. And the roundabout up at court near the middle school, obviously nobody wanted it to go in there, but it works. We've loved one at the bottom of the Avenue. But you learn, you live and learn. Nobody wanted the four-way stop sign on L. It works. They've stopped going up about it, it works. And so I would hate to see streetlight, streetlight, streetlight all the way through, because I see congestion with that. I see movement with roundabouts. I hear Fred, and I understand that piece of the puzzle as far as doing the roundabout. But to me, the roundabout is aesthetically pleasing. It's slow-strapping, it just allows movement. We need to figure out how to keep the bike path in its path, and the straightaway rather than jigsawing it around. But you have a picture of putting a sculpture in the middle of the roundabout, the whole thing. What a beautiful way to enter our city. And it just is so aesthetically pleasing. But to look at the streetlight on Memorial Drive and another one at Ferry and another one at State just doesn't cut it for me. But figuring out how to get the bike path that comes through and if it means infringing on the railroad path, then we need to talk to them. Right, we go to Fred in the there, and then Castellas, and then Peter, and then John, you get the last one. This lady made a good comment about the destry and the roundabouts. Don't not stop now. You're not very sure you can get a nice clutch and yellow light. And people don't stop. What are they going to have? I think I run about nobody's stopping them. The destry and trip safety is very important. Thank you. I'm just excited for something. Yay! I need to. I need to. I need to. And I avoid driving to town. And sometimes I avoid walking to town. And I don't ride my bikes anywhere near town. So anything would be a good idea. Particularly at the very street. I'm talking specifically about the very street, the street. So thank you. Also from a climate perspective, I think we should try to be disincentivizing people from driving to town. So that would be increasing the cost of parking or removing some parking spaces. Especially public transit will be becoming more robust in the near future at some point. And at the end of electric bikes, that should be something that just people should do more of. So there's less cars in our guys' towns. So you've got more people downtown and less, you know, irreconcilable metal taking up valuable space on our streets. So I think we should be thinking in terms of more of the future and this is one of our opportunities to improve the future city that we want to live in in the future and not thinking about today. And yes, man. Tomorrow doesn't have to look like today. Thank you. Thank you for that comment. I'm going to do it after climate change. I wanted to just say around the bus are also really hard for kids. They work for adult bicyclists kind of, but kids have a really hard time, especially if they're lagged behind you. And then there's so many like cities where these cars come down. The many around the bus are a little easier. I've experienced them in Brussels and Belgium. The one thing, though, is that they're usually in spaces or in places where the speed limit is lower, like 20 miles an hour and a half, which makes a big difference. So I don't know if you've looked at the speed limit through the relationship, through the traffic, through the around the bus. I don't know that you've necessarily posed a speed through the intersection, but... You'd have to be through the whole quarter. The people around and the speed limit is 25, they're going to be through the security when they hit the roundabout, necessarily slowing down enough. I'm very sweet as we work. People are speeding. Absolutely. And I think that's where narrowing the travel lanes comes into, and adding, you know... I think it's because they've got a lowering speed limit around the roundabout. And then I had a question about the quick project you mentioned, putting the projected bike path in. It would be just 15,000. It'd be great to do it. I'm not entirely sure I'll get finished. That's the idea. I was wondering how it would work before there's a signal around the map, like is that an issue or not? It's an issue, yeah. But do you think you could still try to add people to that? Would you, as part of the 50,000 you'd be putting in the crossings? That doesn't include a signal. No, it doesn't include a signal. No, it doesn't include a signal. It doesn't include a signal, but a crosswalk. It could. Maybe with another beacon. Another RFB, or move the RFB. Are we talking at the intersection of St. Germain and Ferry? Yes. Yeah. I agree that you might get bike lanes today. It's better than a bike lane. Yes. Thank you. John, switch gears. There are two intersections that get blocked by traffic. Sometimes it's related to the pedestrians crossing at Lincoln Street, but more than anything, it's just traffic backed up. People can't turn because they're going north on main, they can't turn left on the lane. What is up the state where people are going south on main and want to turn on the very street and that gets blocked out or east state. It would be a place where you could, it's not perfect, but you could keep clear markings on the pavement very inexpensively and educate people and I think it would make a big difference. Thank you everyone for sticking it out here for your comments, your thoughts. I've found this very helpful and we definitely want to hear from everybody and just to reinforce things that if you did say something to reinforce that or if you didn't get a chance to say something or didn't want to speak in the group, that's perfectly fine. We'd invite you to write your thoughts on the comment card in the back or if you want to go examine some of the diagrams a little more closely back there. Please take some time to answer your further questions. Thank you again for coming out tonight.