 So thank you again very much Amber for making time for speaking to us about you of you on the Universal Code of Conduct and The first thing I would like to know is how did you become aware that there is work going on by the foundation around a Universal Code of Conduct? And my colleague Melissa Tamani was made aware through the user group that she's part of in Peru and They were they were reached out to in Spanish to participate in a preliminary survey And at that point she brought that information to Art and Feminism because she was confused why we hadn't heard of it. We later found out it's because Non-dominant languages were contacted first. So at that point we had developed a safety tab. We had a document going We were taking in cases and guiding people through all the materials coming from trust and safety It's not new material, but it's just it's an easier pathway for folks so at that point we reached out to Patrick and We met with Patrick and Mervette and also with Maggie Nelson to discuss possibly being involved So just for anyone who's viewing this who might not be familiar with Patrick and Mervette They are also on the trust and safety team Patrick is my manager Mervette is a facilitator who was doing some of those initial outreach things Yeah What do you think if such a Universal Code of Conduct indeed comes into being what impact would it have especially on those Communities that you work mostly with with those it's not really communities, but it's parts of communities Yeah, so I mean we work with many different types of communities a big one that we work with our new editors because part of our mandate Is to train new people and I think that the biggest hurdle that people have when there's any perceived harassment or even just like conflict So downgrading it from harassment to any kind of conflict or uncertainty They don't know how to access information that can help guide them through the process. It's all there on wiki But in West you have a certain amount of expertise Using that kind of platform and the interface of it, which you don't if you're a new editor It will be very hard to find and the language of experienced editors can often Be more confusing and frustrating and intimidating Even when it's not meant to be so we assume good faith We assume that anybody interacting is operating in good faith But we know how intimidating it can seem even in the nicest moment So we hope that a universal code of conduct and it's hard to say because we don't know how it will be implemented but we hope that it will be something that would make access to this information easier and And more consistent So that's a big thing but then there's also folks who are active editors and have been involved for a long time and Many of whom do experience some form of bad behavior and that could be Something that I've experienced is any time I post around International Women's Day everything I post is immediately flagged for deletion Just across the board everything I Don't think it's because I'm a consistently bad editor. I think it's Just something that happens and of course these articles aren't deleted and it's fine in the end But it's an extra layer of work And so I think that a universal code of conduct will potentially help to limit those types of interactions We do have conduct codes there are policies in place but they're not familiar to everyone and they're not always accessible and I would add to that that some of the policies are policies that like Have weight to them and some of them are just things that people have written because they feel like it You know, they're they're driven by personal interest, but they're not backed by any kind of committee or or any kind of power so While they are great and there's lots of good information and then they're not followed So it will help make it more consistent as well what the pathways are Do you also think that? With comedians if they go outside their home wiki often they start with one wiki But then they discover there's also other places to edit either in another language if they're not English speakers they might start with a small local wiki and go to English wiki pdl later Or they will go through the other projects Commons wiki data whatever do you think it will change something for people if they go to? those Projects around their home wiki. I think it definitely can because yeah, there's lots of inconsistencies between what's tolerated in one Wiki verses another I work in English and French and I've seen very very big differences in what is permitted and also in how things are engaged I think it also could potentially allow For the the privilege that you have generally as a wiki pd user to carry over that's something that could happen so That could be a benefit if you're new to a new to another language But you've had a lot of experience you're going to be able to demonstrate some of that experience elsewhere Because so much of the way that we work is experience based and how long you've been involved and we obviously love to diminish that I think that would be a good thing overall But I think there's lots of benefits to being able to demonstrate that you have been there for a long time And you do know what you're doing Definitely, yes That was already a lot of insights, but is there anything else you wanted to share about the concept of a universal code of conduct? right now, it's very hard for me To see Exactly how it will work because we don't have the code in front of us and we don't know how it will be implemented the information that we've been given You know, it's very hopeful and we are entering into this process With a hundred percent the belief that this is only a good thing That's that it's only positive for the community and I should say that we've Engaged a survey of users of art and feminism so that we're providing you with a written statement from all those users but so that you have Not just the like six people or seven people that we work with regularly But a wide community view and we also held on like an office hour around it as well And not everybody thought that it was a good thing some people thought it was a bad thing because it could not be implemented It would never happen So there we do have, you know Some pushback around that and we want to see how I will be put into place You know, we're going into it with a lot of hope But we But I would I would add to that that some of the pushback is not so much around the concept of a universal code of conduct But the way that it's being organized. So there is a lot of as I'm sure you're aware mistrust of trust and safety for a variety of reasons and It's hard to imagine how a Project that's guided by the foundation but that is meant to Affect the community and the movement is going to be received by the movement when there's so little trust between them and Something has I think something has to change in that trust relationship and that like what seems to me like a real fight for power constantly How we can overcome that in order to make the community healthier for everyone But that seems like separate from the universal code of conduct. It's putting the cart before the horse It has to happen now, but I'm not sure and I also hope that the universal code of conduct will be One step. Yeah, that will help create trust This is at least the way we try to go about it. We know that it's there's a lot of Very different things going on and it's a very complex question this question of trust We are trying to engage with community and To not make this a top-down thing, but to make it really a joint effort And we and we see that at art and feminism. We see that work happening just so that you know Like it's visible to us and we acknowledge it. I'm just I'm also noting what we're getting from our community, which is And something that we've experienced ourselves We've reached out to trust and safety in the past and we haven't always had follow-through with with the process Yes, I think we have to acknowledge that those things did not always go the way they were Intended to and the way people hope they would work in the past And I think yeah, we all operate with good faith. We're all doing it because nobody's here because they you know hate This movement they're here because they love it and they want to see it work and Yeah, perhaps it's good to go back to that part of where you said you have hope Yeah, we have so much and With this hope I think there is a good chance of this indeed becoming something that will move forward with trust and Make the movement What did you say before improve community health across the movement? Yeah, I mean, I think that's true And I hope that this Can shift some of this fight for power Because what I see it as is a real constant fight for who's in charge of this project and who's responsible for it Is it the foundation or is it the movement members? Is it the users? and I think that once we equalize that power a little bit more and clarify it We can overcome the stage of constant justly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah Thank you very much for those insights You're welcome