 Welcome to Barbell Logic Rewind. Welcome to the beginning of the MED series. This is 2020, Matt. And gosh, I'm so excited for this series that you're about to embark on. This first episode is all the way back from episode number 33 in December of 17. And this is the first time that Scott and I really used the words, minimum effective dose, and started to define what we were doing in programming. And so this series will walk you through really the entire thought process and the transitions that went along with that theory of programming as we discussed from really episode 33 all the way through episode 152 or so. And so you'll get to see how the thought process and the theory of minimum effective dose programming came to be. And so I'm really excited for it. I hope you enjoy it. Most of the stuff we still live by, there's not a lot of changes today from what we really figured out back three years ago or so. There are a ton of gold nuggets in this series. And it's great because so many of this came to us while we were recording. For me, especially I'm an external processor and as I talked through the thing, it helped me better grasp my own theory of programming. So hope you enjoy it. And without further ado, here's the beginning of MED series. Today we're going to talk about your philosophy for programming intermediates. We've talked a lot about the linear progression and everybody knows what that program is. That one's free. That one's about being simple, hard and effective and moving the most mass we can over the longest effective range of motion using the most muscle we can. And then we've talked about supplemental lifts. So we're starting to move into the world of the intermediate. But before we got into the programming, like specific programs that we might use for different intermediates, I wanted you to tell me what your philosophy that you use when selecting programming elements and creating programs for intermediate people, what that would be. Well, when we program for people, we only have certain variables that can be manipulated. I'm going to say there's three, I guess theoretically, there are four. The big variables that can be manipulated are intensity, which just means how heavy, right? Doesn't mean how heavy does it feel. This is an RPE. This is intensity is how heavy is it actually? Put it on a scale. Compare it to your one rep max, right? So you compare it to your one rep max. And a lot of earlier intermediates don't even know what one rep max is, but they know that at the end of linear progression, they're squatting 345 or three sets of five, and they get an intermediate, and they're going to 315, 360 and 370, then the intensity goes up. You can adjust volume, which just means how much, right? And that could be how many sets or how many reps, or a combination thereof. And you can adjust or mess with frequency, which is how often. So how heavy, how much, how often? The only other variable that is, probably should be considered a variable, but it's only a little bit of a different style is exercise selection. So that's really the fourth, right? And other people talk about density and rest periods and stuff. Yeah, rest periods. Time under tension. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. And if you're a bodybuilder or have different sort of goals, that might actually be true. But ultimately for us, our goal is to make sure we complete the reps. So we never really program, especially for intermediates, we never program rest periods. We certainly don't program shorten rest periods to get more density, more amount of work and less amount of time. Because I just want them to make sure that they rest enough to get all the reps. Right. So if the three variables that we can manipulate are intensity, volume and frequency, I am of the opinion that the thing that needs to change with intermediate training compared to the linear progression is that the frequency will stay the same. We're squatting three times a week. Three times a week. So going to do probably full body lifts, full body days, three times a week, right? Unless you're an older population or whatever that's already only doing two in linear progression. And the volume will start to come down and the intensity will continue to go up. But the driving metric for intermediates should be intensity and not volume. Like I am passionate about this. I've seen this now. I can see it. I've seen it for over 20 years. This is what works. Intensity is what works. And there's several reasons for this. But the first reason is this. Everybody, if they've gone through the LP, they have done nothing but fives. And they're tired of fives. And what they don't wanna do is go from three sets of five to five sets of five to six sets of five to seven sets of five. That will certainly induce more stress. And you will get an adaptation from that. I'm not saying that you won't, right? The problem is that it sucks. Nobody wants to do it. For me, that would be the last resort. Yeah, that's volume should always be the last resort. Now, here's the deal. At some point, volume has to be increased. Absolutely. Tonnage has to be a driving metric at some point, but not during especially early and middle intermediate training. So would it be fair to say that a bedrock principle of your intermediate programming philosophy is that the first thing we manipulate is intensity. We make intensity go up and we make volume go down. So we actually have an inverse relationship. We introduce for the first time an inverse relationship between intensity and volume. The intensity is going to go up and the volume is gonna come down, which means we're gonna go from fives to threes. Or in the case of like Texas method, old man Texas method, Texas method has an increased volume on Monday but a decreased volume on Friday. So let's say if you even follow the standard Texas method, which is five sets of squats. So in linear progression, you're doing three sets on Monday, three sets on Wednesday, three sets on Friday. So you're doing nine sets total. In standard Texas method, you're doing five sets on Monday, doing two or three sets on Wednesday. So now you're at eight or nine. So we're there and you're doing one set on Friday. So your volume is still not really changed, right? Total volume is basically the same. But the intensity goes up and the day that matters on Texas method is the intensity day. That's the thing that shows you that it continues to work. That's the money, right? Now the work is being done and the stress is really being applied on Monday. Now you can't look at it. Some people look at Texas method as like the Monday is the stress day and the Wednesday is the recovery day and the Friday is the adaptation day. That's the wrong way to look at it because the whole week is the stress recovery adaptation cycle. However, the thing that has to continue to go up in Texas method is the weight. Intensity is the thing that goes up, right? And that's early intermediate. That's the most early intermediate stuff. And what we have found is as we go along when that stops making progress, when they get to the end of Texas method or Old Man Texas method, which is even less volume, three sets of five on Monday, two sets of five on Wednesday, one so now that's six sets, I can continue to get the weight to go up and when the weight doesn't go up anymore with sets of five, I drop to sets of three and I make the weight keep going up. Almost everybody does this anyway with the upper body lifts. When they can't do three sets of five, they go to five sets of three. Now that's the same volume, but I'm getting sets of three so I can keep making the weight go up. But what happens when I can't get five sets of three on the bench press and the press anymore? I go to four sets of three and then three sets of three and then one top set of three and two drop sets of three. Because the point is that the top set of three, I've got to keep making the barbell get heavier on a weekly basis for intermediates because this is the thing that works. And then here's the thing. By the end of that intermediate run, by the end of it's certainly that initial push of Texas method, old man Texas method, heavy light medium, those sorts of things. I'm going to end those with singles. I'm gonna end them with three singles across, five singles across, one top single and some drop set singles. The point is there's never a time where it's more safe than in middle intermediate to run a bunch of singles. Let me be the devil's advocate here. Aren't we just trading the volume for the intensity? So like if you do five sets of five at 300. Yep, I know exactly where we're going with this. You know, to... There's only a total amount of stress you can handle, right? So it's like a budget. You have this much stress. If we drop the volume and then the weight goes up and drop the weight goes up, drop the weight goes up. Aren't we just seeing the strength that was already there? No, you're not. Or we're trading the volume for strength. Sure, of course. Yeah, that's a good point. So what you're doing is you're actually realizing all the work that we've put in before this. And to some extent the answer is yes. But the thing is there's so much other stuff that goes on when we're able to put a heavier weight on our back. If you ended your linear progression on squats, what was the example I used? 345 somewhere in there? That's that ballpark that says 345 for three sets of five. Which is pretty damn strong. And you get through a Texas method, old man Texas method, heavy light medium, which are all similar programs. And by the end, you're hitting singles or doubles at 415. Right. That's not the same thing as 345 for three sets of five. Now the thing is one single or a double or a triple and a couple of drop sets triples is actually less overall stressful to your body than three sets of five at 345. That's really, really stressful. As a matter of fact, I tell most people the end of linear progression is the hardest thing you'll ever do. Other than that, when you get into advanced programming you'll have some times where the point is actually loading and gaining fatigue, like accumulating fatigue that will remind you of the end of LP. But for most of your training, we can start to manipulate the overall stress to get the desired adaptation. What is the desired adaptation that I want? I want to get stronger, which means the barbell has to go up. Now here's the thing. Singles don't make any sense for a novice because their concept of one rep max, they're not the same person on Friday that they were on Wednesday. They're not the same person the following Monday that they were the previous Friday. So the concept of percentage-based programs or one rep max or whatever doesn't work for novices because they actually are like a different human every two days. The problem with training a bunch of singles as an advanced lifter, like heavy advanced lifter is that you're very much risking injury at this point because we're not talking about singles with 405, we're talking about singles with 605. It's really, really stressful to do a bunch of singles at 605. But you hit this point after you've done a bunch of sets of five as a novice and an early intermediate, that it becomes really, really fun and it allows you to realize a tremendous amount of strength by dropping your reps from five to three and then to twos and then some singles and figuring out what your weights are, how much weight you can handle on the bar and it allows you to quickly put, you know, a lot of times for a lot of guys, 50, 60, 70 pounds on the barbell and the lower body lifts in a pretty short amount of time. And at the end of that, they've got some confidence to go, oh, the most I'd ever squatted before I started this was 345 and now I'm squatting 415. And yes, it was 345 for three sets of five and now it's 415 for a couple of singles or a double. And so it doesn't mean like if you worked in a projected max calculator that maybe your max even went up, only it did because you've actually never handled that much weight on the barbell. And now we actually know how strong you are and now we can go into the next phase of training which is where we can start manipulating other variables. So in the beginning, the thing we do with intermediate training is we keep the frequency the same and we start to drop the volume and we drive up the intensity. And by the way, I think it always should stay heavy. The only time that I don't go heavy is in short little blocks where you're still doing stuff in the 70 to 80% range. Right, and that's for advanced lifters who are really just trying to get their joints to break try to get additional volume and build work capacity and things like that. But for the most part, I think you should always stay heavy and I think it's easier to recover from heavy. And I think it's by far harder to recover from volume. Volume kills people, especially old guys. Yeah, I can do a pull-up with like a plate. Fine. Yeah. 10 pull-ups. My elbow is gonna be pounding for three days. Yeah. So I'm a baby coach, right? I'm really sorting a lot of these concepts out and learning a lot about them. But one of the things that I see for people that are early intermediates is they can't really effectively do singles. Like if you hold a gun to a guy's head that just finished LP at 345, you're like, you're gonna go out and do a full tilt boogie single right now. And I'm gonna put a 405 on the bar, which isn't a stretch if you do the math. They can't do it a lot of times because they can't perform. I think so a guy in LP, the fourth rep of his second set is his best rep. Right. When you're gonna do a one-rep max, it has to be your first rep of your first set or that's when you've got. And it takes some practice. And so I end up spending some time and as an early intermediate, getting to the point where they can do that. Of course. And so that becomes one of my goals for a trainee that's in early intermediate programming is like, let's get you to effectively do someone rep maxes so that we can then do percentage-based programming later. Yep. So I don't even know if it's the right term. The term that's been used for years that I've used for years, which again probably we'll get emails about is, is you develop this neuromuscular efficiency when you do things like singles and doubles that you don't develop as well when you do sets of five. A set of five give us the best balance between strength gains, general strength gains and size hypertrophy gains. Right. So when the intensity goes up and the volume goes down, I may be trading some hypertrophic gains to be able to put more weight on the barbell. But so the question is, what is the desired adaptation? Well, for me as a strength athlete and for my clients as strength athletes, we're intermediates. The goal is to be able to squat more weight and deadlift more weight and bench more weight impressively. It's a rare guy that's like, I just set my six by five PR. Sure. And if your goal is to be a bodybuilder, it might be different. That's just not who we work with. We work with people who are trying to get stronger. So, and then there's this other thing that's just mental side of this. We talk about the mental side a lot on this podcast, which is it's just really fun to do singles and doubles and triples. And it just really sucks to do six sets of five. And so while I think that singles and doubles and triples actually works significantly better than five sets of five and six sets of five, I'll even argue the case that it's possible, although I don't think so, that six sets of five could even be a little bit better than singles, doubles and triples. Let's say it's 5% better. For a certain population, it's probably so. Well, I don't, I actually don't think it is for the most part, but I'm going to play devil's advocate. Pretend it is. Here's the question. Is it worth it? Is it worth it to do two and a half hour, three and a half hour long workouts to do six sets of five when I could have gotten 95% of the benefit doing one set of triple and two drop sets of triple, you know, an 8% drop set after that one set of triple? I'm not willing to do that extra amount of work. And most of my clients aren't because they're not advanced, lifer, power, like what matters to me the most in life is powerlifting. That's not who we deal with either. I'm actually pretty close to that. I mean, I spent an enormous amount of time on this, like in the books, in the gym, with other people. I'm dedicated, but I had to do five fives, squats the other day. And I'm like, I got my warm-ups done in six minutes, loading the plates and everything. Then I'm like, okay, I got five fives. I'm going to give myself a minute for each set. I'm going to wait five minutes. That's 36 minutes before I do anything else. And I had two more movements plus some accessories. So some economy with our time is important. It is. I mean, how long have I coached you since November of, is that right? October 15th, September 15th, somewhere in there, right? I think it's longer than that. No, we were like six months before you started strong. So it's been, yeah, it's early 15. So, you know, we're coming up on three years. I've been training you. And you're finally, for the first time ever, I've got you doing a little couple weeks of like five sets of fives of volume. Because at this point, I've got to start driving some tonnage up. But that's how long it takes. You've done it for three years. And we've got you really strong. And again, we joke about like your genetics are not good at all for getting strong. And we've got you pretty damn strong in your squat and over 400 pounds and your deadlift and 500 pounds. Like these are good numbers for a 43 year old guy. They're strong enough numbers, never touched a weight and never done anything athletic in his life. Yeah, right. And so I'm always thinking about a couple of things. I'm thinking about what is best for the client. I'm thinking about what I would want to do. And I'm thinking of from a business perspective that I don't want to get fired, right? I'm running a business and I'm coaching clients. Let me flip that. You want them to actually do it. Yeah, I want them to actually do it. And if you get fired, they're not doing it. That's exactly right. So if they do six sets of five and they, you know, it's like putting somebody on a 1200 calorie diet, they can do it for 10 days or 14 days or 21 days, but it ain't gonna last. Right, right. And that's the same thing here with the volume. Like at some point volume sucks. So here's the deal. I don't know anybody who would say that volume doesn't suck. Even the people that think that volume works would tell you it really sucks a due volume. Well, if it really sucks a due volume, let's add it last. Let's make that the variable that we have to increase last. Yeah, we're dealing with people that have preferences that have, hopefully other lives and so on. And so they're not competitive strength athletes at least as a career choice, right? They might go and compete at a strength lifting meat or a powerlifting meat for a fun thing on a weekend, but ultimately these are just normal people trying to get generally strong. And so if that's the case, I want to let them get heavy, I do some singles and double some triples. They love it. Lots of fun. They build all sorts of confidence, putting the extra weight on the bar. They can continue to see what they're able to do. By the way, those rep max calculators are bullshit. If your best squat ever was 345 pounds for three sets of five, and you put that in the rep max calculator, but it's probably going to come out to 415 or 420, somewhere in that ballpark, right? Probably 405. Yeah, at least, right? But you've never squatted 350 in your whole life. Your squat max is not 405 or 410 or 415 or 420. Theoretically, but when it's showtime, you probably can't do it. You can't do it, because you've never had that weight on your back. And there's something very different about adding 50 pounds to the bar and having to do it. So just because you might potentially have the muscular strength to do it, you don't have the neuromuscular efficiency. You don't have the mental fortitude yet. It's not because you're mentally weak. It's not like the stuff we've talked about in past episodes. It's because you just haven't done it. And so it's important to be able to go up and do that. And so it's something changes in our clients, in our lifters' lives, when we're able to get them in this time period where they're able to do a bunch of singles and doubles and triples. And so over that time period, the trade-off is their work capacity often actually goes down a little bit. It's okay, it's a trade-off, right? So if I'm gonna do a bunch of volume, I'm not gonna do a bunch of heavy weight, and my max singles are gonna go down. And for some people, they don't care. But for me, I want the weight on the bar to always go up. I want intensity to always be high. And then I'm willing to trade some of their work capacity off in the intermediate phase to get really, really strong and then start working the volume back in. And there's several ways to do that. We can get it back. It's not that hard to get it back, right? And so the question is, if volume is the driving metric or the driving variable that you use, the question I have for you is, where does it end? So we go from three sets of five to four sets of five to five sets of five to six sets of five to seven sets of five to eight. I've seen programs from respected coaches with seven sets of five and eight sets of five. And I'm not even saying they don't work. I'm just saying they suck. I don't want to do them. Like it's not very fun. And look, I get it. Some people are gonna be listening to this and go like, well, training is not supposed to be fun. I actually disagree. I think training is supposed to be fun. Training is the thing that we do that refines us and makes us better. And while it's definitely hard and there's days that you don't want to train, that's the way it is for everybody. Everybody has days to do it. The problem is when I've done sort of block training, accumulation phase where I've had six sets of five, which I've done and I've programmed even for myself, there is no workout for a month that I do that I look forward to. I dread it all day. It makes me sick to my stomach. I get anxiety. I don't want to do it because it's not because I'm scared of the weight on the bar. It's because I know how bad the workout's gonna suck and how long it's gonna take. God, I got a three hour workout coming. But I've done six sets of five on a dead list before. That's terrible. Now I'm doing about six sets of five at like 5.45. That's horrible. That's ridiculous. That's horrible. So to me, I want my clients to be able to have fun, keep it as simple as possible, extract the most amount of weight gains, the progressive sort of intensity gains on the bars they can possibly make. And when I have to, I'll start to bring in some volume. And so again, I'm also looking at this longterm athlete development model of the lifters. We've talked about this some before, which is this idea that really that I've stolen from, I didn't come up with this, this idea that I've stolen from the Soviets and their process of achieving sports mastery. They were always looking at like the lifetime cycle of a lifter. And I want to do the same thing. That's why I think it's not smart to go from linear progression to an eight-week or 12-week program. To go thermonuclear immediately. Yeah, there's no reason to. If you can make progress every single day is a novice. And then you can go to make progress once a week. And when that slows down, you should go to something that makes progress once every two weeks. So we did an episode on all men in Texas methods some time ago and there's some amount of hate out there about that program, about how it's suboptimal or maybe even just garbage or whatever. But I will pose this question. If I could have an older guy, 38 years old, let's say, been pushing a mouse around at IBM for however many decades, two decades now. And I can have me squat three sets of five on Monday, two lighter sets on Wednesday and one and get a five rep PR on Friday. If he can do that for eight weeks, why would I have him do anything else? If I can get that efficiency increase out of that man, if I can get that strength realization out of him without damaging him further, I have an ethical obligation to get him the 30 extra pounds on his more over that four weeks or five weeks or six weeks with that low impact. I owe that to him. It's negligent to do otherwise when that will work. I'm mad about it. It's negligent. How many people quit? How many people have suboptimal results? How many people get injured because they're over program? That's right, over program. Well, how many people we had, the old man Texas method that we put them on that didn't have optimal results? Well, they all put weight on the bar. What do you want? Optimal results, right? I'm getting mad. Minimum effective dose for maximum return on investment. If I got a 60 year old guy and he can squat three sets of five and put five pounds on the bar on Friday, or he squat five sets of five and put five pounds on the bar on Friday, it's ridiculous to ask for that last two sets of five. Doesn't make sense. I agree. And so you take that as an axiom and apply that to any other programming decision we can make. You have a good rule of thumb on how to treat people and how to actually measure the improvement that you want to see. Anything else is just dogmatic. You're just putting a stake in the ground where it doesn't need to be. That's right. Yeah, so we do the minimum effective dose for maximum return on investment so that we can stay as simple as we can. We talk about the simple, hard effective. I always want an error on being slightly too simple and then adding a variable when simple stops working. I don't want to jump ahead and go complicated and over complicate things and change four variables when I could have made a minor change to one. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to increase intensity. I'm going to reduce the volume. By the way, I'm not going to change exercise selection until they're deep intermediates, like late intermediates. When I go to a four day split, which we'll talk about coming up, when they go to a four day split, then I'm going to add supplemental lifts. I'm not going to add any supplemental lifts. I'm just going to keep going heavier and keep dropping the volume for intermediates right until they get smack into the middle. I get mad about that because before I knew better, before I engaged you for that intermediate program, I said, I did eight weeks of real life Texas method, which I know isn't the best way to even accumulate volume or whatever, but I did that as like a 40 year old guy. Yep. It's brutal. And we see these programs out there and people that don't know or don't have help just pick them up and they just get burned out. I can't imagine how many people are just like in the wreckage who quit because they found one of these things on, like they just read programming, frankly, where it says clearly this is for like a Juco college football player, get after it if you're a young man. It says explicitly in there. I made the same mistake and tried it anyway. Sure. Yeah. So when you think about the longevity and you're thinking about kind of longevity of your athletes or your clients or lifters, whatever you want to call them. If I jump ahead and I put them on an advanced program, like a block training program or a DUP type program early, I don't have anywhere else to go. We talk about this all the time. It's like nutrition, right? When I'm giving somebody new nutrition sort of programming, I could give them the perfect diet, the perfect protein, carbs, fat, the thermogenics, the fat burners, the cardio, everything else. And if they did all of those things on day one, they would lose a ton of weight the first two, three, four, five weeks, six weeks maybe. And then it stops. It's going to slow down and plateau. And then what do I do? I don't have any cards to play. I mean, shut up. So for me, right. And it's the same thing. So, you know, one of the struggles with advanced lifters is you're constantly putting them kind of through either a block training sort of, I mean, look, whether you think there's a whole bunch of different programs out there or not, there's two programs out there for advanced lifters. It's block and it's DUP. You find any program out there. So DUP is essentially a high frequency program. So it's lots of frequency of the lifts, full body workout days. Block is an advanced four day split day, four day split, right? Where it starts very high volume, moderate intensity and works its way to extremely high intensity, very low volume at the end. And then you basically manipulate supplemental lifts in order to drive the adaptation based on the weaknesses that the lifter has. So, you know, if they're weak off the bottom of the deadlift, you're going to work the bottom of the deadlift or if it's the top of the deadlift you're going to do that. That's it. And so like you can't, like you can come up with all this. Well, what about what's two shares? The, what's the RPE? Rextrain systems? Yeah. Yeah. Or you do Chico or like that all really still will fall into one of those kind of two general ideas. Well, the problem is when you get somebody advanced and you go through one and they go through DUP, like what else are you going to do? But you only go through DUP again or go through block and then they go through block and then what are you going to do after block? DUP. Right. So you're just going to do a variation of one of the things you've already done. So for me, what I want to do is linear progression as long as I can. Then I'm going to do Texas method for young kids. I'm going to do Old Man Texas method for old kids for as long as I can. And then I'm going to go to heavy light medium for as long as I can. And I'm going to do heavy light medium is the first time I'm going to usually add a peak. So if you go to like practical programming, there's a 12-week, I think it's 12-week powerlifting peak and heavy light medium. I don't do that exact peak, but something similar to that where I'm actually going to work them. It starts at fives and moves to triples and doubles and singles. You do it in like eight weeks, right? So yeah, any of those are fine. Again, it's really the theory, not the actual. So the idea is, you know, you get to a point where it's still a weekly program that you'll eventually peak on. So you're making progress every week based on with the metric being the weight on the bar. You're making progress every week because every week the weight on the bar goes up to a peak. And so you're going to hit a single or a double or triple or somewhere in that ballpark is something really heavy. At the end of that cycle, when you've actually hit some new kind of maxes or near maxes or top single or top double, you are done with that mid-intermediate training and it's time to go to four-day split. That would be the next step that I would make for programming. So, and if you've bypassed that's what a lot of people do. They get done with LP or they run out of LP on strong lifts faster than normal LP. And they're like, gosh, you do five, three, one. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You just went from daily progress to monthly progress. There's a whole bunch of other stuff in there and do weekly progression, you buy weekly, like all those things. That is my philosophy on intermediate training. We stay heavy, we keep the frequency the same and we drop the volume. And we ride that out as long as we possibly can because really enjoyable and it's really simple and we get a great return on investment for a very low dose. And when that stops working, then we change the programming. So that's my philosophy. I like it, it's worked for me. I'm not too beat up. No. Yeah, I really like the five, three, one thing as you do it. Because again, it teaches these people how to handle those heavy singles. You know, their last week of that program they're just handling singles. And so they learn neuromuscular efficiency or whatever. I don't know that it's that, it's just performance. Like it's showtime, you know, how do you get your head right? Like I'm sure there's some sort of, you know, neuromuscular involuntary aspects to that. But most of it's voluntary to get your head right and learn how to do it. And so they really get to learn how to do those things. And then they need to set the OneRapMax. We can move on to a different kind of program where they're actually working off of an accurate OneRapMax. Yeah, percentage doesn't work if you're really calculating it all out. We need to have much tighter idea, right? And certainly even if you don't have OneRapMax, you've got a top double, one top double gets us a lot closer estimate than three sets of five doing a calculation off that. We just don't really know it, three sets of five. It's good. I got madder in that one. That's all right, it's good. Well, thanks for listening everybody. I forgot to do this on the podcast. Let us know how we're doing. You can email us at barbelllogicpodcast at gmail.com. And of course, tell a friend about us. That's the thing that we need the most. Tell a friend and we'll all make the world a better place.