 Thank you very much for being here with us today. I am going to just take a minute to introduce Woman for Afghan Woman to you. Woman for Afghan Woman is a woman's human rights organization, and I've just started its activities in Washington DC this February. And Woman for Afghan Woman operates 27 offices in 10 provinces of Afghanistan and also has a community center in New York. And as I said, we are new in DC. And this panel discussion focusing on elections in Afghanistan, but through a gender lens, I hope, is the first of many other panels and discussions that events that Woman for Afghan Woman will have focusing on gender. So I'm sorry also to tell you that Dr. Simo Samara was not well. She was in New York, but she wasn't well and not able to join us today. But we are lucky to have some very distinguished panelists here joining us. And I also want to thank our co-sponsors for this event. We could have not had this event without them. And I want to thank the Peace and Security Founders Group's Woman Peace and Security Working Group and the Henrik Ball Estefing North America Group and also New America Foundation. And I will ask Ambassador Sama to introduce our speakers now. Thank you. Thank you so much. And good morning to everyone. It's a bit early, probably, given Washington's habits of starting discussions later in the day and even into the evening. But that's why we have coffee for you outside. And I hope you did get some coffee. Before I introduce the panelists here in the room, we're going to go straight to Jalalabad, Afghanistan. And we have, I'm hoping, on the line, a good friend and a very important advocate for women's rights in Afghanistan, Ms. Mahmouda Sarraj. And she has been kind enough to accept our invitation to speak to you about her observations, her observations during the past few weeks, before elections took place, during election and now, post-election, even though the electoral process is still underway in Afghanistan. And we still are not totally done with the first round if there is going to be a second round. So I will, initially, because we do not want to lose the line to Jalalabad, go to Mahmouda and ask her, first of all, if she can hear us. Yes, I can. Very good. I can hear you. Nice to have you with us. I will pass the mic to you, if you would, and ask you to give us, first of all, your sense of how elections went, both in terms of preparations for elections and in terms of the way they were conducted and what is happening now. So since you're on the ground, give us a feel. Take us on the ground. And we would then ask the audience before we let you go to maybe ask a question or two, and then we will turn back to the panel here. Your turn, Mahmouda. Very good. Thank you very much. Hello, everybody. I'm really pleased to be here. And I just hope that you can hear my voice well. Some of us recall this election of Afghanistan, our Camelot. And as the people of Afghanistan, the men and women, we are extremely, extremely proud of what we actually achieved in that way in this country. Actually, we make history, to tell you the honest truth, because I believe that it was something that we all did which cannot be taken away from us, nor can it be unlearned from now on. This is something we all learned. This is something we all practiced. And hopefully from here on, we are going to take it to much higher stages in our lives. In the day of the election, I mean, the few days, the few weeks before that, it was pretty hectic. And people were running around and having their gatherings all over Afghanistan. But in the day of the election, Kabul was really, because that's where I am. And it was really very beautiful, because it was kind of raining in the morning. And it was very, very quiet, because there was nobody on the streets. And everybody was off to go and give their votes. And I started my day at 6 o'clock in the morning, because at 8 o'clock, I was supposed to be with the radio and they were doing interviews with all of the, or actually they were connected with all of the different voting centers all over Afghanistan. And they were asking them about whether they have received all of their equipment, how the voting is going, whether the people are there, whether the phones are there, and what is going on. So I spent about two hours there. So I actually really did get a very good picture of how the election was going on all over Afghanistan. In some areas, there were problems. And everybody kept on saying that the participation of women was absolutely amazing. And everyone was very, very happy. And we were all very happy when we were hearing that I was really happy. Especially when we heard that in Kandahar in Helmand, women were out and they were voting. I cannot tell you how exciting all of that was. Kabul City was unbelievable, the amount of participation. And then after I finished the two hours of the radio plead, then I went to the different voting places in Kabul. And I went mostly to Korte Fane, Korte Char. And it was wonderful. It really was wonderful. The areas where I went, there was not really that many long lines. I should say they were lines, but they were not as long as the Habibia High School, for example, in Kabul. But the rest was really, people were going. People were voting. And then when they were coming out, I asked a few of them who they voted for. And some of them were saying that it was their secret. But some of them were sharing it with me. And it was, I call it, it was a magical day. It was a day for all of us to be, for me, again, I was very proud to be an African woman born and raised in this country. Then after the election, of course, then the countings and all of that, I mean, after a while, when all of the boxes came back, the ballot boxes came back to the election committee commission, then they all started to count it. So now we are going through the process of counting. And of course, there's a lot of corruption that has been going on, and some, or most, or in some, I guess, of these voting stations, especially in the areas when it was not very secure to vote. A lot of things, that's why a lot of the voting places in those areas were closed. But then again, it wasn't the same areas that a lot of the corruption did take place. So then the counting started of the votes. And then the first round came out. And then they told us about the two winners that they are, Dr. Abdullah Abdullah and Dr. Ashraf Ghani. And the third one being Zalma Rasool, 11%. And then Sayaf Rath and then after that, which are the main ones. But now, as I don't know if you know or not, but the election in Afghanistan, the election commission, the law says that they have to win at the first round, that they should have 50 plus one of all of the votes in Afghanistan, which I don't know, I don't, it looks like it might not happen. So Afghanistan is going to go to the second round. And the second round is the second round of an election. And it's something that happens not only here, but it happens in some other countries in the world also. So as long as we can all accept it and go with the process, I believe we are going to be fine, hopefully. Because what I see, I see a change, a very, very fundamental change. Right now, the most amazing thing is actually that Dr. Abdullah Abdullah and Dr. Ashraf Ghani won votes from all over Afghanistan. Maybe Dr. Ashraf Ghani, because his votes were from the soon sight of Afghanistan and they were not a big concentration of population in those areas, in order for him to get more votes, got lesser amount of votes. At the same time, as far as votes are concerned, everybody got all the, everybody in other words, voted for every one of them, for both of them. In other words, the question of ethnicity, the question of who these guys are from, where they are from and who they are representing, is not, I mean, as far as the ethnicities are, as far as the tribes, as far as the language is concerned, is not really that much of a concern and for the men and women of Afghanistan at this point. However, the people of Afghanistan, I know afterwards when I talk to them, there is a certain, how shall I say, an air or some kind of a, that they all are kind of, you know, really don't wanna have anything to do with the warlords, if possible, if it could be that they could go on with their lives without or with lesser, you know, influence from them how happy they will be. But then, you know, we'll have to see what the result of the election is going to bring to all of us. The woman in Afghanistan, from the very beginning, we started being extremely proactive towards the whole election, because what we did was that in the beginning, the AWN, which is the Afghan woman network, decided to have meetings with all of the candidates. With all of the 11 of them at that time. And we met with every single one of them, and we asked them about their agenda. What do they wanna do for the women of Afghanistan, where we actually set in their whole, you know, plan for the country. And we took their, we recorded and we took all of their commitments of how they wanted to deal with us if they were the winners. And then at the major point, we actually, AWN also went and had a task of the, of interviews, which we were planning to have at that time, were the ones that they were kind of, you know, ahead of the game, which was, we invited Dr. Fanzalma Rasul, we invited Dr. Ashraf Ghani and we invited Dr. Abdullah Abdullah, and some other candidates as well. But then, and that day, only Dr. Fanzalma Rasul showed up with those who've joined, the those who've joined, and that was the only two that came because the rest of them, they were very busy doing their campaign in the provinces of Afghanistan. So, Afghanistan's women's main concern at this point with the candidates and with the, you know, the future presidents of Afghanistan is for us to make sure that whatever we have gained in the past 13, 14 years in Afghanistan is not going one millimeter back. This is the number one, number one, the most, you know, the biggest concern because Afghanistan has seen this kind of a, you know, going backwards in our history. And we really do not want to, you know, do that again. So, this time, we would like to hold on to our place and from here on, you know, keep on going and mostly what we really would like to do, all of our achievements and what we want our government to do, partly it's going to be based on the 1325, you know, the United Nations Security Council, you know, that, you know, they asked the world, you know, for the countries that war and war or after war how it should be done. And we, in that, we, what we ask our government is really to have more women in the decision-making positions in Afghanistan, to have women in the Supreme Court, to women are really, really working very, very hard and we're all, you know, I guess the people of Afghanistan should be doing that as far as corruption is concerned because if we don't take care of all of these problems, then I do not believe that we will be really going, you know, much forward. So, these are the things that we, as far as education is concerned, we have asked the candidates, you know, to give us their, you know, commitment to education, to our political participation, to the security, to peace and security, and to, for us to have more, more contribution to the peace and security process in Afghanistan and for us to be more involved in it. So, now we are actually waiting to see what is going to be the results of the election. And finally, and then hopefully, Afghanistan will go on doing what they need to do and as far as, you know, taking the mission forward. And from the world, what we really would like to have as always, not forgetting Afghanistan and not stopping the AIDS. I know, maybe this is not going to sound very, how shall I say, maybe it's not a very attractive phrase to say now, you know, that please don't do this and please give us more money, please release that. That's, you know, but I hope that everybody understands that the reason we are asking for it is really, really a question of Afghanistan and this region's life and death. It's literally like that because Afghanistan cannot and should not go back to be in the place financially and economically and as far as the development is concerned that will become another hub or another little haven for, you know, for the negative forces of the world to come and just, you know, take a little, their little houses in there and just stay there and start working, you know, to destroy the world from here. This really should not be allowed. And in order for that not to be allowed, we have to work towards, you know, giving more jobs to our young. The young generation of Afghanistan is the most, how shall I say, is the most energetic, is the most intelligent. They are absolutely, they have so much hope and they have so much energy and they have so much talent and these people should be really pushed forward in order for them to, you know, to get involved in meeting of Afghanistan. The one thing I wanna tell you which is really very interesting, at the time this presidential election in Afghanistan as you all may know takes place with the provincial council members, you know, election. And going all over now, I'm starting this trip all over Afghanistan that I'm going to be going because I am training all of the government officials and everybody on the 1325. We are, I'm traveling all over and you'll be amazed how many young people have actually nominated themselves over candidates for the provincial council. And also I have a belief that one of the reasons why there was such a big turnout of people, men and women in the election and because of this very young energy that was there and they were there at the forefront and they needed to get the votes of all of these people. So they really, they really did a lot of work in this area in order to make it very interesting for everybody. So I hope that's why, you know, the 12 million people actually got nominated and then were ready to vote and then from then 36% of which were women actually and then voted in this election. So... Thank you so much. That really is a very useful, you know, set of observations from you. I'm just going to ask you a very quick question. The turnout, as you said, was about 36% on the female side for the elections. If elections go into a second round, do you anticipate a high turnout again and a high female turnout? What might impact that? And can you tell us very briefly on the impact of security and the work that was done by the Afghan security forces that allowed space for people to participate? Right. You know, the whole problem or the question of security to tell you the honest truth, Mr. Samad, it was not the main concern of the Afghan people, no doubt, but it was not the main deterrent anymore because we realized all of us that this is something that in Afghanistan whether it's right or wrong or whatever it is, we are living with it. And also the fact that at this point with the way our police and our army, the Afghan army is really doing their job and protecting, you know, Afghanistan and the Afghan people, we really are feeling a lot more confident. And that's why this whole question did not come up the way everybody was thinking that it might. And the thing is that also, you know, for the election on the second term, now it's in my mind, you know, the way I look at the whole thing and the way I've done some studies and the way I'm kind of weighing the whole situation, it could be either a very, very big turnout of people or not. And usually in the nature of this thing, you know, when an election goes on the second, you know, time or the second round, sometimes the people or the enthusiasm or whatever you wanna call it might not be there. But unless there is a, there becomes another reason that they really, really would like to decide between the two main candidates that they want one over the other, depending on what they want Afghanistan or how they want Afghanistan to go forward. Because the ways of the two gentlemen at the top as far as taking Afghanistan to the next steps are very different. So if that plays a huge role, then people might turn up to in big numbers, men and women to go and vote. But if that doesn't, then, you know, they might not. So to tell you the honest truth, I cannot give you an answer in one way or another whether it's going to be a lot more or not really. Very good. Thank you so much. I'm gonna ask one or two people in the audience to take advantage of this occasion. And if you have any questions for Mahbub Esseraj, this is the time. Yes, the lady right there, thank you. Hi, my name is Charlotte Beck from the Heinrich-Berth Foundation. Thank you very much for these remarks that were very uplifting, I think. So that's good to hear. I have a question regarding the provincial elections because you're focused on the presidential elections now. So could you say a little bit about the outcome of the provincial elections and how the women that were running for the provincial councils fared whether there's already some preliminary results, et cetera? Thank you. Thank you very much. That is the provincial council election in Afghanistan was extremely a very, how shall I say, a very important topic for the women of Afghanistan because unfortunately, when we kind of have lost how shall I say, when there were votes given against the Ival Law, which is the elimination of all kinds of all sorts of violence against women in Afghanistan. And at that time, it was kind of like the parliament of Afghanistan did a few things, like voted against that one, even though it was a decree by the president and we wanted to just make it as a law, but the parliament did not allow it. So we shelved it and it's going to go back into the parliament hopefully in the next few months and then hopefully this time it will pass. At the same time, what happened was that another situation took place, which was that the parliament for some strange reason because I guess they could, at that time, they brought the number of women in the provincial council chairs from 25% to 20%. So that was really a kind of, how shall I say, it was a loss for all of us. But then at the same time, the 20% of women that were there, they again, very bravely, got into these provinces according to the numbers that were allotted to them in each one of the provinces that they could, instead of some provinces instead of two women now there is one, but that one woman did come up and they did run. So we are going to be hopefully getting the results very soon and then we'll see what is happening. I cannot tell you at this point whether there's going to be a lot more women winners or male or female winners because it took, I've been so involved with listening to the presidential elections results that I haven't paid that much attention on those, but I will be paying attention to the final results. Any other questions from Mahbub Seraj, last one? Yes, sir. Could you speak a little to the two remaining candidates and put their positions maybe that are important to women, how to contrast them? I'm sorry, I didn't get the question. Can you contrast the policies and the agendas of the two candidates vis-à-vis women? Oh, yeah. Okay. As far as the policies of the candidate vis-à-vis women, I should, you know, I think that's a good question. Vis-à-vis women, I should, you know, and this because of where we are, you know, maybe I cannot be talking about it very, very openly, but then maybe I should at this point because now there's only two of them left, you know, towards the end. Dr. Ashadani actually has the best and the most, you know, really policies that involves women in every, every factor in every area of the Afghanistan government. So, I mean, that for him, he is, and amongst all of the candidates, he is the one that has, you know, has his, how shall I say, is the one with the most ideas and with the most commitment and with the most plans than any other candidate. So right now, because he happened to be amongst the two first, well, you know, that's another factor and it is so. However, I, you know, I really don't know how much the vote of the women are going to go towards them or not. That is something that needs to be seen. A part of the vote of the woman did go to him. I should say, definitely, one that came to the big city and places where everybody knew most about all of his plans. And so, you know, there was a lot more votes from women. But then in the areas, like as I mentioned, because of the fact that he got a bigger part of his votes from the Pashtun part of the country. And in that area, the concentrations of the voters were not as much. And for that matter, the concentration of the women voters were also less. So, but at the same time, he's the one that has the most agenda, you know, the better agenda for women in Afghanistan. I'm going to take one last question. The, yeah, it's on its way. There you go. Good morning. Good afternoon to you, Mo. John, this is Ali Seraj, calling, talking to you from Washington. How are you, John? How are you? Listen, I have a very important question. How are you? Considering Dr. Rani's choice of General Dostam as his first vice president and General Dostam's history with the women of Afghanistan, do you think that's going to have any adverse effect on women voting for Ashraf Rani? I don't know about, you know, the second time, to tell you the honest truth, because as I said, you know, some situations that change the face of the whole election has kind of changed a bit, no doubt. And it usually does. But at first, from the people that actually I know, and we were in a group that we were very much wanting or a whole lot of women, but they really were wanting to vote for Dr. Ashraf Rani after his decision with having General Dostam as his first, you know, running mate, that kind of changed the mind of women. I'm not saying that a whole lot of women, but I do say some. So percentage wise, I cannot tell you, but I know there was an effect, yeah, because of that, definitely. Thank you so much. Mahbua Siraj, we want to thank you so much. We hope you enjoy your few days of training in Jalalabad. And thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and take care of yourself. And we will return now back to Washington from Jalalabad. Now, this description, and I'm going to turn to the three of you and is going to help us with the discussion. On my left, I have an old acquaintance and friend that I have not met since 2001. Belkis Ahmadie has been an advocate not only in an activist, not only in terms of women's rights, but in many other areas, most recently in development and through USAID. She was telling me that she has been working on the reconstruction, if you would, of Afghanistan's subnational governance and mostly concentrated on the mayor's offices around the country. She has a long history you will see in her bio of activities regarding Afghanistan and we're happy to have you here with us today. Next to Belkis is also an old friend, David Sidney, who has served both at the State Department and also in the Pentagon, very recently as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Central Asia. He's a very large, important region. Prior to that, he has also served in Kabul and has a long and distinguished career in the U.S. State Department. David is hopefully going to tell us a bit about how the future of security and even security assistance to Afghanistan might help gender development in the country and democratization. And next to David, we have Zora Rousek. Zora, I have known only for a few minutes, actually many years. She has been an advocate for Afghanistan since the 1980s. She has recently worked, she was a member, an elected member of SIDAW, worked with the United Nations. She was at the foreign ministry in Afghanistan in charge of the women's department and done a lot of work on Afghanistan. And prior to that, many years, I am an advocate when the Afghan women's cause was really not recognized. And she, I remember in the late 1990s, she went underground to Afghanistan under the Taliban to do a research and a study of the health condition of women and children in Afghanistan under the Taliban. She has some harrowing stories to tell you from that experience, but her research was very valuable at a time when nobody really knew what was happening. So happy to have all three of you here. Let's turn to Belkis and ask you, how do you react to what Mububa has said for someone who has been dealing with different facets of Afghan development? And we each have about 10 to 12 minutes before we turn to the audience to have an exchange with them. Okay, thank you for having me here. I'm glad that Mahmoud al-Sarraj basically articulated what did happen in Afghanistan. As Mububa John said, the turnout was remarkable, but men and women enthusiastically exercised their right to vote. We saw an improved electoral preparation by IEC this time with the Independent Election Commission. Afghan Security Forces, A&A, A&P, and NDS did a very good job in securing the polling stations. This time around, I think the public were more aware of their political rights. Although the final result of the election is spending adjudication of all the complaints by the Electoral, by the Complaint Commission, we do see that Dr. Abdullah and Ashraf Ghani are the front runners at this point. So these are all the positive things, despite the bad weather, despite the security concerns, the Taliban did everything they could, the months and weeks and days before the election to scare off people. We also recognize that there were underage voting proxy voting, ballot staffing, intimidation by the Taliban, and also by other powerful individuals and groups. We know that more than 400 polling stations had to be closed on the polling day. But let's focus on lessons learned. I think this election was a success, not only for Afghan people, but also for the international community. After all the efforts and money being spent on building the capacity of local institutions, IEC, Independent Election Commission, Independent Electoral Complaint Commission, local NGOs, civil society groups, also the security forces, now it paid off. We did see that Afghans took responsibility. We also recognize that international experts were involved, but not to the extent they were involved in 2004 and 2005 and later on. We also noticed that even the most conservative candidates and groups understood the importance of women's rights and human rights for the people of Afghanistan and also for the international community. Someone like Sayor, for example, he pledged to improve women's rights, although he had some conditions, but let's not focus on those conditions. The fact that he said that he believed in women's rights and human rights was a very positive step. We also learned that people were not intimidated by some powerful individuals that both the Afghan government and the international community had perceived them as very intimidating. I don't have to give names, but we do see that individuals or candidates who belong to powerful, majority groups did not win enough votes to be even considered to be on the fourth runner, not that important. So let's put it that way. This time around, we did see that women's rights and civil society groups were more engaged with the candidates, they were more organized, some more than 200 local organizations and NGOs got together in the months leading up to the elections, they got together, put down their demands from the candidates and they went from candidate to candidate, met with them and said, do you agree with all of our demands, which are the basic demands, security, education, health, economic development and political participation? I do know that some of the candidates did sign on on that piece of document that's referred to as women's charter or Manchurian on. So those are the important lessons learned that we saw in this past election. There will be definitely, as it looks now, a runoff which will most probably take place in the first week of June or sometime around June 7 to 10 or something. I think IEC or the Election Commission is logistically prepared for the second round. Candidates are negotiating to rally supporters of the defeated candidates. It will be interesting to see what happens. But let me present you two possible scenarios from my point of view. I think that the jihadis may rally behind Dr. Abdullah because they find their views more closer to Dr. Abdullah's than Ashraf Ghani because Dr. Abdullah was also involved in the jihad and so on. So that's one scenario. The other scenario is the Pashtuns who now see a Pashtun against the Tajik will most probably rally behind Ashraf Ghani. We'll see if that happens. What happens, what does it mean in terms of foreign policy and relationship with the neighboring countries? I think Dr. Abdullah is closer to Iran and Russia, which Pakistan may not like. I also think that Pakistan does not want to see a strong Pashtun as the president of the country. So they may increase their intervention in Afghanistan politics. But I will leave that to see in two months time and see what happens. There are some challenges for the next administration as we all can foresee. That includes including representatives from the losing candidates in their team, dealing with nepotism and corruption and so on that we are all familiar with. And also to materialize the promises that they made during the campaign. We all know that sometimes politicians make promises. But this time around we have a very awakened civil society groups. They are going to demand action from the next president administration. Economy is very important, the top priority on everyone's agenda. We'll see how the next candidate or administration create jobs for the young that Mahuva Saraj was referring to rightfully. And also policy towards neighboring countries. Thank you very much. David, having served within the US government until recently, if you were still at the Pentagon, let's say, and you looked into the future and in reference to what Mahuva Saraj said that people are really focused on the future and mainly on protecting the gains. What advice would you give in terms of what steps need to be taken to protect those gains and in regards to gender policy within the overall security mindset that exists? Okay, thank you. And thank you Omar, thank my panelists, thank the New America Foundation for holding this event and keeping people's focus on the issue of the importance of women in Afghanistan, both for Afghanistan and for the United States which has invested so much in Afghanistan. Before turning to answer your question, I just wanted to mention that right before I came here, I got an email from my friend, Dr. Seema Samar who was expressing regret that she'd been here. Echoed the points about the election that others had made but also asked to make the point that two points, the importance of education as a fundamental priority for achieving the goals of women in Afghanistan if women don't know their rights then they can't fight for them. She wanted me to stress education so I did that. And secondly, she stressed for the importance of the commitment of the United States and others and I will talk a little bit more about that in specific response to your question Omar, the importance of that continuing commitment after 2014. I'd like to say a couple of words about the election itself, particularly from the issue of women and security. The turnout of women, as Omar said, was quite impressive. Both given the emphasis of the Taliban on both preventing the elections and the opposition of the Taliban to the participation of women in the elections. It was also impressive because of the large societal constraints that continue to hamper women's efforts, women's ability to play a full role in Afghanistan. One of the specific issues on security was that in order for polling stations to operate and to have women come and vote, you needed to have a female election security personnel there in order to ensure that the person who came and in most places in Afghanistan, the person who comes as a woman wears this blue fabric called a burqa. The problem, however, is for some reason the Taliban, well, they're opposed to women's rights, they love to dress up in these blue burqas, the Taliban love to dress up like women and come in and use that as a cover to kill people. So you have to have security people who can ensure that the individual who's in a woman's burqa is really a woman or not and that person has to be a woman. So getting sufficient woman's election security personnel and getting them trained was a big challenge. A major effort was made to do that, but it wasn't, I would say, fully successful. There were not, in the end, as many trained election security workers as necessary and there specifically weren't enough trained woman election security personnel in some of the more dangerous and some of the more conservative areas. And so that's one of the things, people say, well, why didn't 50% of the woman turned out? Well, there are a lot of reasons, but one of them is in some places there just wasn't a security that was necessary. And that goes to the next issue I want to mention, security overall. The Afghan security forces during the period up to and during the election did perform, I think magnificently, our military on the ground, NATO military on the ground has said that as well. And they faced a huge problem because the efforts of the Taliban in the two months before the election, not just on election day, but in the two months before the election to get fighters, weapons, and explosives across the border from Pakistan and deploy them and kill people, attack the election headquarters, attack the Serena Hotel, attack provincial election officials, attempt to assassinate some of the candidates. All of that was happening and the Afghan security forces did a tremendous job of stopping 95 or so percent of those attack. Their success ratio was very high. Unfortunately, when you are in that business, if your success ratio is less than 100%, people die and that did happen. And there were scores of people who were killed, wounded on election day and the time up to that. In terms of woman's security, one thing that continues to be very important is having women in the security forces themselves, women in the army, women in the police, women in the intelligence services. What we have found here in the United States, those of you who follow issues relating to the US military know that this continues to be an issue in the US military. It's important in order to have fair treatment for women, you have to have women in the security services themselves. It's very difficult right now for women to join the Afghan army, the Afghan police, the Afghan intelligence services because of societal constraints. I've talked to many women who have joined the Afghan security forces and many women who have not. And the number one issue they face is societal constraints. Parents, uncles, brothers. I've talked to women who said they were threatened with death by their brother if they joined the army. So these societal constraints still exist and they're very strong. But fortunately, many women are joining the Afghan security forces. Yesterday, the Department of Defense released its report on progress and security in Afghanistan, the so-called 1230 report, which is the one official document the US government produces every six months. And it had in it the latest report on the numbers of women in the Afghan army and Afghan police and the Afghan Air Force. And there's slow but steady improvement in the numbers. And I want to, as we look ahead, say that it's very important to continue that progress. The US Congress has recognized the importance of that and in the most recent National Defense Authorization Act, earmarked $25 million in spending from the Afghan security forces to support recruitment, training, retention of women in the Afghan security forces. And that's an important, that's that legislation and that commitment of money is important. But that commitment of money and the ability of the Afghan woman to carry out, to continue to act in security and the ability of woman to act is all dependent upon a continuing military presence by the US and NATO. The Afghan security forces did an incredible job, but they are not yet ready to stand fully on their own. The Afghan Ministry of Defense, the Afghan Ministry of Interior, areas such as logistics, intelligence, air support. Without those, the Afghan security forces, no matter how brave they are, are not going to be able to continue to succeed. So I will stay here very confidently that we in the United States, you ask what the United States can do for security of woman and this is the security of woman is linked to the security of everyone else. We have to have a serious substantial commitment of US and NATO forces, 10,000 to 20,000 security forces to provide that assistance to the Afghan security forces. As I said, I believe that the congressional commitment to 25 million dollars was important, but in the end, it's useless if there aren't US and other NATO forces there to ensure that the money is spent well and to ensure that the woman continued to progress in the Afghan security forces. Our experience around the world is that if you don't have a woman, as I said, in the security forces, the security forces are not conducive to working with women and that if you don't have on the ground support for that, it won't happen. Empty lectures are useless and my job as Deputy Secretary of Defense for Afghanistan and Pakistan, I had to testify and I often testified before some very well-meaning members of Congress who would say, we want to continue to support the woman of Afghanistan but we also want American troops out and I would tell them that's not possible. If US troops leave and the Afghan security forces are very well armed because they're well armed, they're trained to kill, they actually are pretty good at fighting but without the continuing support of US and NATO forces, they will end up becoming an abusive instrument of power as have so many other militaries. So you ask what I would advise, I would advise that the United States today make a commitment after 2014 to have that, to have 10,000 US forces and 6,000 NATO forces in Afghanistan afterwards. One of the things that makes the continuing infiltration of the Taliban across the border possible is because the Taliban themselves are not sure about the future. They continue to believe they may be able to win militarily. They continue to hear dock of such things as a zero option in the United States or from other NATO countries that they are going to pull out and as long as that's a possibility they will continue to come across the border and fight and kill. If they had certainty that Afghanistan, whichever presidential candidate and I'll leave that to others to discuss, whichever presidential candidate both of whom said they would sign the BSA, whichever candidate wins if they also had the surety that whoever it is that candidate is going to have the continuing, not just financial but also military and security support from the rest of the world, then this threat from the Taliban would go down and then less people would die. So by making an announcement today of a continued commitment to Afghanistan not waiting for the BSA to be signed because it's clear it will be signed, that's what this administration could do right now to make Afghanistan safer to make the next round of elections safer and to save actual lives. One comment on the issue of second round turnout, if you look around the world at similar situations where there are local and national elections that take place at the same time and then later on a runoff, turnout in the second round is always lower. So for people, journalists and others who are setting expectations, I would say if turnout in the second round is more than 40% that will be very impressive. I think getting 40% turnout for the second round is gonna be a challenge. One of the things that was mentioned earlier and I had a chance to travel in Afghanistan a few months ago and have heard from many people, the enthusiasm that was generated by some of the provincial council elections in some areas was very important to that turnout. The turnout was not just about the presidential elections. In fact, in some areas it was more about provincial council elections than presidential elections. So that factor won't be there and that also was likely to a lower turnout. Finally, I think the Afghan security forces could well face a stronger challenge than they did last time and they will need even more support if they do so. So anyway, those are my comments. Thank you. Nonetheless, Africans are also known to defy expectations and overcome them. So there's a possibility that you may have a higher turnout in the second round. Let's see. Zora, let's take a step back and look at this election, the women's role, the participation, the inclusivity, the breaking of barriers as Mububa mentioned of ethnic barriers and gender barriers and generational barriers and so on and so forth. If you look at all of this and you're sitting at Seedol, let's say and you have to deal with very difficult problems that exist in certain societies such as violence, how would you look at, how would you see Afghanistan and what would you, how would you also give us a blueprint for the way forward? Thank you, Marjon. And I would like to thank the New American Foundation and the Women for Women Afghanistan. This is a very good question. That's exactly what I wanted to talk about. This is not rehearsed, by the way. No. Okay. By the way, I just came from Afghanistan a few weeks ago and got a call from Marjon yesterday about this event. So I was glad to come and talk about my own assessment when I was in Kabul and I did speak with some women just for myself to see how women and also men think about elections and whether or not they are ready to vote. But before that, let me say that through my lens, I see this election as a breakthrough and I'm very optimistic. Having said that, I also have to say that I am very, I would be very cautious and look at this election and the outcome of the election and the outcome for women with a lot of caution. Having been working for the CEDA Committee, which is the Committee on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women at the United Nations. For four years, I have been reviewing and communicating with governments regarding their accomplishments on women issues from all rights, from political participation, to education and health and everything. So that tells me that governments make promises, especially during elections. And in Afghanistan, this is new. The fact that all three candidates, the three ones that were the winners, included women. Now, some of them I think were very genuine. I think both Dr. Abdullah and Dr. Ashraf Ghani has genuine interest in women's rights improvements. I worked with Dr. Abdullah personally as his advisor on women and human rights and as the head of his, the director of the Office of Human Rights and Women's Affairs. He was the one who invited me to come and start such an office. So regardless of my pains, when I say pains, I really mean pains. In that situation, he was very supportive. So I would look forward to Dr. Abdullah as the president because I have seen personally that he is interested. Well, people around him were not that much supportive of women's rights, but he personally supported me. So I am confident that Dr. Abdullah as the candidate will do and will stay behind his words about improvement of women's rights. Same thing with Dr. Ashraf Ghani. He, as a technocrat and as someone who has two run mates, both of whom I know and I think both of them have no problem with women issues. Regardless of whether, you know, the history of Mr. Dostom and so on. But I think in both candidates during both of their times, there will be support of women's rights. But when I said we have to look at this with caution, it's because history has shown as showed and also other countries in post-conflict situation and countries who are in the situation similar to Afghanistan, such as Iraq, such as Egypt, if we review their accomplishment and the accomplishments of women after the elections, they still are struggling. They're not much happening. So it is not for, if we, the first question is what's the stance of in your, in the theme of today's discussion is the stance of the candidates. I think there is, in addition to using women as a demographic to get their votes, which is good. I think it's better to keep them aside to bring them in. They have publicly made commitment. All the three candidates. And that, they have to have the political will. So the political will is there. It's for women advocates. I'm not saying women alone, women advocates. That includes men as well. Afghan men and the international community to push. So what I call the four P's, the political will, which there is some, but needs to be pushed for more. And taking out of the government and the new administration. The second P is the promotion. That the civil society, the international organizations, the women groups, all of us need to bring out. My personal experience again, when I worked with Dr. Abdullah, it wasn't easy, but I made every single issue that was important under my division, under my mandate, happen. I went to his office, I explained to him, I convinced him, and he never said no. So if we have a plan, a policy, and a commitment, it can happen, regardless of who wins. The other issue is policy change. There's a lot of discriminatory laws in place right now. The eval, the Elimination of Violence Against Women Law, was about to be denounced by some of the folks that are also candidate for the presidency. Now, that sort of thing needs to be a lot of laws, regardless of some changes that has happened in the last 12 years. There are many laws in Afghanistan that are highly discriminatory towards women. So those needs to be, of course, change of policy, and this was my third P. The fourth P is pushing. So pushing of the international community, which brings the issue of the role of the international community. The international community has done a lot, and thanks to the help and the pushing and support of the international community that Afghan women have got where they are now. Without them, very little would have happened during Mr. Karzai's administration. Discrimination against women happened by men in suits and ties. And by the way, I'm writing a book for my experience at that time by these men's in suits. Most of them came from the West. That is existing. So what needs to be done is the international community continues to push and needs to fund and fund the right place. We have a lot of funding going to Afghanistan and women causes, but unfortunately it disappears and women's situation is still the same. Women don't have running water and clean water in villages and rural areas. Women have no access to health, education, and economic empowerment of women, jobs. I don't think it is, this election, a lot of people are excited because women are gonna be leaders and working with the government and become elites in the public and private sectors. That is not what the Afghan women need. I think the candidates need to take a good look at the real women in Afghanistan. I'm not a normal woman who lives in Afghanistan and is in need of civil, political, economic, social, cultural rights, which is all not looked at. So the donors and in the international community needs to also review their policies and the programs that they have undertaken in the last 12 years. If they really want women to be empowered, empowerment of women is not training leaders. We have a lot of leaders in Afghanistan, female leaders. Women know what to do because when they run a family without food, without a male breadwinner and being their own leader at home, they can be a leader in public and in society. They need empowerment of their economic situation, they need education, they need security, and they need help. We need healthy women in order to really have women stand up and become their own advocates. But most importantly, this is what I always talk about or tell governments when I'm sitting in my seat in SIDA committee. Men, we have forgotten the role of men in Afghanistan unless the road is paved for women to get out there and vote regardless of security. There could be perfect security and there could be perfect political will for women. If men in their homes, fathers, brothers, husbands, sons, whomever, men in the community, religious leaders will not allow them to go out to work or to vote or to whatever they have to do in their public life. It's not gonna happen. So what I advise, especially major donors who have big projects in Afghanistan, and I think some of you know who I'm talking about, is to first train, educate, and raise awareness among Afghan men. The societies that have strong women movement and women in public and private sector working and active is because their men want them to be out there. And we need more men advocates, more men to support women, to protect women, and to stay behind them. And that is, I think, what is needed, whether it's Dr. Abdullah or Dr. Ashraf Ghani, to get women in the next 10 years. Let's not be too excited and expect that next year or the next six months, women will be all out there and prosperous. It takes time, but I, again, would push the candidates, both of whom have political will. And men and women, I shouldn't say just men, who are around these candidates also need to be trained and sensitized to the need of women because the next election, they will look for the same women as a demographic to vote. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Zora. Very useful and thought-provoking, and I hope that our audience now is fully awake after the coffee, after the Jalalabad talk, and after the Washington talk. So, since we have about 15 minutes or so left, I'm gonna go straight to you. And please identify yourself and ask a short question. I know everybody has probably a lot to say, but let's keep it a bit short. In the back, right there. Yeah, thank you. Ms. Yoraziyat Tajikorosh, for your presentation, for everything that you've taught us this morning. My name is Chris Bassett from the International Foundation for Electoral Systems. And I'm interested to know, based on the lessons learned, building on the progress made to date, what practical steps can we do to improve women's participation as candidates, as advocates, and as voters in the 2015 parliamentary elections? Thank you. Okay, so let's take one more, and then, yes. Anjuman Apte from Voice of America, Afghanistan Service. My question is for both the ladies, and the speakers, actually. It's about your expectations from the next government about involving women in the peace process. How would you foresee the next Afghan government to involve women in the peace process? Okay, thank you. Should we go to both questions, to both, unless David has something to say? Well, please. I'll start with the second question first. Expectations from the new administration about women's participation in the peace process. In Afghan culture, women play a very important role in basically resolving crisis and conflicts between families, not to the national level, so far. So women can play a major role, and Afghan, the new administration, must understand the importance of women's role, especially in Pashtun Wali. They have these women, when a woman go to the rivalry's house or village and ask for forgiveness for something that a male family member has done in their village or in their family, then it has to be granted. That's the way things are. Women do play a very important role. Unfortunately, so far, it has been symbolic. I don't think they have played a very active role, but the fact that they are there that shows that women's participation is important, it's a message to Afghan government as well to the oppositions and whoever is involved in the peace process or peace talks. The next government must understand women's important role, not only in education and health that's always talked about, but also in political affairs, social affairs and cultural affairs. But what was the second question? The first question? About parliamentary elections next year. Parliamentary election is as important as presidential election. Most of the laws that we see that are passed or not passed is because of the parliament in Afghanistan. Zorajan was referring to the evil law. The evil law is a law by decree. The parliament refused to sign on that law. So while a lot of focus has been placed on the presidential election, I think parliamentary election is as important as presidential election, training women public awareness about women's rights, about human rights and the needs of Afghan people as a nation, not as an ethnic group. That has to be done. Media plays a very important role, civil society, international community. Thanks for their support. I have done a lot of work in raising awareness so far on political participation of people. I think it has to be continued. Not only that, but one thing that I forgot to mention is the role of the human rights defenders and women's rights defenders. They risk their lives to protect the basic rights of other men and women in the country. That's a topic that has not been talked about a lot, but human rights defenders are facing a huge problem in Afghanistan, groups such as women for Afghan women, people who work for this organization, put their lives at risk to protect women and children that needs to be supported. When the international community kind of sort of dropped the ball between 2004 and 2000 and now, I think the Afghan government dropped it completely. Very important that international community keeps pushing for improving women's rights situation in Afghanistan. David mentioned women's role in the security forces. Everyone understands in Afghanistan that men cannot search women. It's a cultural taboo, but at the same time, they don't want their girls and their sisters to go and join security forces. The next government can do a lot by educating the public about the benefits of having women in security forces for their own benefit and for the safety of their families. Thank you, Zora, would you like to quickly answer those two questions? Yeah, for the question of the gentleman about the practical steps for the election in 2015 for a female parliamentarian. My experience with parliamentarians in general is that they need to know their role. Unfortunately, many times members of parliament go to ministers office to advocate for causes that benefits somebody or something that is related to them personally. And of course, they do work on the law, but it has been a habit and it really is part of the corrupt system in the Afghan government. And I would say education and awareness of the female candidates about the role of parliamentarians for the future of the government, their role in improving women's rights and women's situation in Afghanistan, because there are female parliamentarians that are not really supportive of women's rights. I've worked with them. There are a number of them who are supporting, but there are a number who are backed by some warlord or someone who push their cause towards these females. So it's very important that they're elected quickly and also they learn what to do, what's their job. And another issue is, of course, they're providing protection for them so they can, when they go to lobby, they have enough support and protection. That's what I can think right now. On the peace front? And on the peace involvement. Afghanistan has signed what is called the Security Council 1325. Which is a commitment to make sure women are involved in peace talks, in reconstruction, negotiation, and so on. But like many other countries, even developing countries, Afghanistan has not really implemented this in practice. So what needs to be done, women who are capable, who are competent and strong, needs to be in the place of leadership in the government. We had the Ministry of Women's Affairs, and unfortunately, very weak ministry. We need strong women, whether it's the Ministry of Women's Affairs, whether it's the Foreign Ministry, whether it's the Justice Ministry. These women need to be involved in the peace talks. We don't, I mean, Afghanistan do not need symbols. Women have symbolically have sat there. Once somebody told me in the London meeting, it was the two years ago, a conference. It was, well, there were women, NGOs participating. That's not what we need. We need women to actually talk about not women's issues. Because this is another problem. Women come to talk about women's issues. Women who talk about security, peace, and the rest of the things. So the solution is that the next government, next president, assign capable women. Women in Afghanistan should stand up. Not just women, but men also. And the parliament should not approve. If a woman is backed up by a warlord or somebody whose father has brought votes for the candidates, there has to be the strong women who really can bring the issues in the peace talk. They should be in the discussions. And not just one woman. There should be more women. So the expectation of myself as a woman from the government is to abide what is their commitment to the international laws, such as SIDA, such as the Security Council 1325, and many others. And also make sure that women have a voice in security. Thank you. David, really quick. Really quick. Practical things to improve women's participation in the parliamentary election. Getting started earlier on the recruitment and training of the female security workers that we mentioned before. Since this time, it was started too late and not done effectively. And then parallel, having a publicity campaign about that. Because if both men and women know that there is better security at the polling places, then women are more likely to vote. So that would be one suggestion. A second suggestion would be a higher level leadership commitment to this issue, both in the army and in the police. There was, I'd say, a mixed record of support for this. So ministers and deputy ministers were to get out and support the security effort for women. I think that would send a message to Afghan men and others that they take security seriously. And then women are more likely to be able to vote. And then thirdly, this is totally off the gender topic. But one thing that's been missing from the Afghan elections scene since the Constitution was passed was the requirement of the Constitution that district councils be elected. That has not been done because of claims that the security didn't exist. Actually, the performance of the Afghan security forces this time is shown that's not true. I believe that if you had district councils coupled with parliamentary elections, you would have a much higher turnout overall, including greater women. Not only that, but you could also then legally call upon a law jerker if there's a need. The government could do so because its stipulation is that the district level representatives have to be present. And also, in regards to the provincial council, another reason, assuming that this is correct, why there are more women participating this time around and also a lot of youth, is that it is also a springboard, a political springboard for many. And there is also the opportunity to go and become a senator because part of the Senate comes from the provincial council membership. So this is another segue to advancing politically in Afghanistan. Let's take the last three questions quickly. One, two, three. And I hope others will have a chance to have a discussion afterwards. Salam al-Fatma Sayed from Feminist Majority Foundation. And I would like to ask Zuhra John in regards to her comments that she said about pushing the international community should push the Afghan government, especially the new one. So how could women's rights NGOs here in the United States can get involved in this pushing the Afghan government to fulfill their promises in regards to the evolving women's rights? Let's take the three and then we will get to them. Mr. Siraj. This question is to you, Mr. Sidney. We've been talking about security in Afghanistan. And 2014 coming to an end and we're leaving Afghanistan, they expect the Afghan National Army to defend the nation. A national army today, which is totally devoid of having any air support of their own. No heavy equipment like tanks are armored, except for a few humvees, which will be left behind. Majority of the billions of dollars that the US government spent in bringing their equipment into Afghanistan and now they're pulling it all out, not leaving very much for the Afghan military. And a mountainous region like Afghanistan and with the terrorists coming from across the border into Afghanistan, how do you expect the Afghan National Army to defend the nation and defend the rights of the women, which the Taliban are trying to suppress ever since they have been in Afghanistan? Thank you. Up front, right here, thank you. Hi, thank you. This is a question for the entire panel. We, over the last 13 years, we saw very little, if nothing, of Mrs. Karzai. And that was obviously for very particular reasons. What are your expectations moving forward? Whomever wins, Dr. Abdullah or Dr. Ashrafhani, how would you foresee or wish to see or have expectations around the role of their spouse moving ahead and the link to women's rights? Okay, shall we start from that side now, Zora? Yes, Fatima, I think a feminist majority in particular. have pushed very hard when the Taliban were, since the takeover of Taliban. Let me also just add that Zora was part of the first four Afghans who went to a feminist majority in 1997 or so to tell them that there's something bad happening in Afghanistan. And so I'm a witness to that. Yes, and recently I have not been aware, at least, or maybe there are some activities from feminist majority in Afghanistan, so I'm wondering what's happening there. But I think what can be done is through watching organizations, international women organizations could act as a watchdog, not just towards the Afghan government, but also donors and organizations who go there to implement projects to see what is happening. There's a lot of money going for women projects. That's one of the areas. But also through dialogues with the government, through meetings and making sure that women rights, whether it's political participation or anything else is in place. I'm sure they know how to do it, but there's always ways to make sure the right women get into the right position. There has to be some voice. The noise has to always be there in order for the governments to really take things seriously. On the next first lady. Oh, first lady, very interesting question. Of course, I met Mrs. Karzai only once, of course, and she was not in any kind of active role, we all know, but that was probably a different reason. For the new, the two candidates, I know Mr. Ghani's wife has given presentation and speeches, and she's not an Afghan, so that's one factor. Dr. Abdullah, I hope that his wife would be included in women empowerment causes. And I think now that, when I said it's a breakthrough, it's because women came out. There's a woman vice president out there, so there are more, what do you call, the encouragement for women. Men don't see that as a strange thing that a woman is coming out. So I think there's encouragement, but also probably Dr. Abdullah, if he wins, will bring his wife to be in the leadership towards women causes. But how much difference would it make in Afghanistan? I think it will make a lot of difference because it tells men that it's okay to let your wife come out and work and be in the leadership position. So let's push for that. But I know one of the candidates already has done that. David, on the question to you. Thank you very much for the question. It's an excellent question. Mr. Ali Sabraj, as always, you have a very sharp and perceptive mind and you've identified some key issues. The Afghan army is currently constructed and is currently restricted as a result of a number of decisions over the last several years has exactly the weaknesses you say. And those weaknesses need to be addressed. And that is a, but the ability of the forces on the ground or the people in the Pentagon to do that has been absent because of the lack of a decision by our government, by our president to stay in Afghanistan after 2014. As long as that question was still open, would we have a presence there after 2014 or not? As long as people in the administration pursued the zero option, it was impossible to do the proper planning for what happens after 2014. There has been a lot of planning done, but it's not been very good planning as a result of that lack of clear political direction and clear political commitment. So that's the real reason behind the problems that you still accurately identified. You mentioned the issue of the amount of money that's spent on bringing things into and out of Afghanistan. The US government has wasted somewhere between five and $10 billion in transportation costs in the effort to try and get all the military equipment out of Afghanistan by the end of this year. Did you see wasted? Wasted between five and $10 billion by moving things out of Afghanistan at a pace so that everything could be out by the end of this year. Because of the way logistics works, you have to do things two, three, four years in advance. So the US military has been pulling the equipment out at a rate so that it could get everything out by the end of this year if that's what the president decided. Because of that, and we continue to waste money in that order by pulling equipment out more quickly. If we had a political decision to stay after 2014, then our logisticians would plan to move things out at a slower pace, use cheaper land routes instead of expensive air routes, and it's about four or five times as expensive to move things by air. Then that extra money, that extra money that money is not being wasted on the speedy pullout, could then be used for some of the purposes you said. Again, a very perceptive question. I thank you very much for that. Thank you. Bill Kies? I agree with Zora John on the last question, that yes, having not only the next president's wife active in politics, and also in women's empowerment, but also the ministers, the cabinet. We don't see many ministers, current ministers, going to events, but even their wives being actively involved in politics and women's empowerment will send a very strong message about the important role women can and are able to play in politics and the reconstruction of Afghanistan. Can I make an American observation? Maybe there's an element of fear there. We, of course, in a situation where a former First Lady is running for president and Senator Secretary Clinton is running for president. Obviously, building on her role as a First Lady. Some men are uncomfortable with that. I have been two lines, okay? First of all, I want to thank women. Going back almost a century. Yeah. And then tomorrow, to start the monologue, realize the importance of upon women and run the queen out and set the people that the country needed more men and women who were type-on-type to build the country. The President used that against him. The history came to the conclusion of 1929 that Afghanistan's women movement was kicked back into history, okay? Until now, constant. Then again, there is a copy of this, the copy of this came over, and Afghanistan's women movement was kicked back. The thought of what came, this was the worst possible for Afghans women. Afghans women are the backbone of Afghanistan and I'm very proud to say that I'm a member of the family who lost their throne on behalf of the Afghans women. Yes. Good thing that you're still here with us. Yes. And so what we want to make sure is that we do not have a regression again. We want to make sure is that we is, yes. So let me allow, I know the time is running out. Someone has been very effectively trying to say something. My name is Shakila Khalji and I know three of you panelists. I couldn't leave today without saying that you've been instrumental for the past 13 years in doing so much for Afghanistan. We came a long way. This is Shakila Zurejan. And these ladies are my, I call you my friends, but we haven't been in touch for a long time and I know from Omar Jon from Way Back. The struggles you guys, Way Back, Way Back, when there were no human rights openly, there were no governments, there were nobody talked about Afghanistan, nobody cared about Afghanistan. Everything was non-existence and you guys were working towards and I was a little bit part of it. So not to go back down memory lane, I just wanted to thank you so much. We came a long way. I'm a member of an NGO in Afghanistan. So you do your bit, I do my bit. And we are terribly concerned about what's gonna happen. Our donors are checking out, I should say. The women's issues, you covered pretty much everything, both of you. And I'm so glad I didn't wanna go back through it, but at the moment for the past years, I am barking at anyone and everyone in DC that what happened to all those women's organizations who were so fighting for women's rights in Afghanistan. The same thing and they all disappeared. Afghanistan, especially women's issues, no longer sexy along with the other issues in Afghanistan. So when the lady asked about what can we do, we can do a lot. We were part of an advocacy group some 10, 15 years ago or 13 years ago. We went to the Capitol, we were screaming about fundings and human rights and women's rights for that matter. But I'm concerned about the fundings and the role of small in Jews in Afghanistan whether they're run by Afghans, total volunteers. There are a lot of in Jews who are working great, working in Afghanistan. They don't get fundings from biggies, but they survived on shoestring budgets and grassroots. And we would like to continue that in Afghanistan. It's so important that we are established now. So what anyone is doing about that is a question and a concern. And as far as the constitution has written, I remember clearly I was a journalist back when I was writing a radio journalist. And I asked many key people, including women in Afghan government back then, in 2001, two, three, four, that there are a lot of things in the constitution that is counter-intuitive to the human rights and women's rights. And how many times they hushed me. They intimidated me to not bring up questions that brings up, you know, disturbs the situation. We are way behind that. We should just be very compliance about things. There's never the right time to talk about women's issues and human rights issues. We have to be brave enough to talk about it. We have to challenge our governments and our people and our even civil societies and people who are in the women particularly who told me that we shouldn't talk about these things right now, it's very dangerous. So it's very important now also for the new governments for people to be not compliance and I deal with a lot of young Afghans in Afghanistan. There are a lot of fresh Afghan people who are interested in being part of the political dialogue in Afghanistan but still the oldies are running the show and they would like to be part of that narratives and make a difference. So that is important to- We're gonna have to have you on another panel. We should. And I am going to ask Laura to say two words and then I'm going to ask Shafi who represents ASAP, an organization in town to tell us why an organization such as ASAP is important to have right now and then we're gonna wrap it up, sorry. Thank you Omar. I've also known Omar for a long, long, long time when I had a lot less gray hair. Hi Zohra. Hey David, this actually is for you, Dazdi. Cause it's something that I've been working on and been thinking about for a long time. I'm not as optimistic at this time currently about our military and our NATO commitment to improving women's integration into the security forces. We now have an ISAF mission that has gender advisor billets and we have enough, but we don't have enough people actually being filled, being put into them. We even have a flag officer level at ISAF headquarters that continues to go unfilled. And the thing is we also have precious few American gender military or police advisors and we know that we need an American presence to actually push through that agenda which we here in this room are so committed to see to give and help women in Afghanistan secure themselves. We have the policy, we've got 25 million but it came in the last year of the ISAF mission, not in the first or even in the middle. So while I agree, we have the ability and the know-how and even the policy, we do have the policy to do this. I'm worried in the post-2014 mission when we have a small itsy-bitsy fraction of the presence that we have even today there on the ground that we will actually dedicate the resources and the women power to do what you're saying which is to integrate women into the security forces. What can we do though? There is something we can do, I just don't know what it is. You have a quick answer along the lines of what I said before. The problems you identify are real but as the previous audience member said, what there isn't here in the United States is sustained push by American women's organizations on the security front because as I said, when I would go to Congress, I would get questioned by women members of Congress, women members of Congress who would say, you have to make sure Afghan women are kept safe and the next breath they would say, we want all foreign troops out, all American troops out and we don't want to spend any more money on security and the answer is you can't do that. If you want security in Afghanistan, you have to spend the money and you have to have the political commitment to do so. So what one concrete thing US women's organizations could do is speak out and say that we, earmarks are all well and good. Hortitory language is all well and good but in the end what you need is you need people on the ground and you need money actually appropriated. Our military leaderships when they address Congress does exactly what they're told to you by the White House. Last plug in, the plug from ASAP. Thank you very much. Here's a chef from Alliance in support of the Afghan people. I just make a case on a personal level, just a lot of people tend to look at Afghanistan from the eyes of the last 12 years. But in fact, a lot of people forget where Afghanistan was before 2001. It was a country that where women just simply appearing by the glass window, they were not allowed to do that. Forget about other things. There was a country there was no job. It was dying, infrastructure was dead. There was no national army and a lot of the leaders or the factions fighting in the country simply they claim power because they took part in violence. They claimed leadership and power based on that. To looking at today where there is, there are a lot of problems, let's not go into that but it's a country completely transformed. It's a country that the youth are connected. They're making 70% of the population. They're connected through the internet, through the social media to the rest of the world. You have freedom of speech in the country. It's something that's completely unprecedented. 12 years ago or so, if you barely said anything against the regime, you would be thrown in jail or dead probably. To today where you just watched the Afghan talk shows on the media and it's just incredible what people are talking about. There's a vibrant society ongoing and their youth group, civil society, finally people are trying to do something. But what lacks in the country is political certainty. That's one key issue and the other thing is that assurance from the international community that we will stay with you. That two things are sort of holding the country on edge. If Afghans are assured of the fact that the international community stays with them, believe it or not, the rest things have changed. They have reached to that tipping point where Afghans will push it to the next level but they just need that assurance because of regional and so many other issues. So Alliance in support of the Afghan people is that organization asking for that assurance, asking the sustained engagement of the international community to be able to protect the gains that have been made over the last 13 years and to be able to move forward with that into the future. Thank you very much. Well, thank you, all of you. We are 15 minutes over time but it was worth it. And I want to thank Berkis Ahmadi and Zora Rasekh and David Sidney for making this a valuable and rich conversation. Thank you.