 Today, we're going to break down the behavior of Fonnie Willis. Greg, let's tell us about the videos we're going to watch. Fonnie Willis is the elected Fulton County DA and the lead on the prosecution of the Trump trial for the election theft. She has been charged or accused of impropriety in letting a contract with someone she's involved with and this is that questioning. Once the motion was filed, did you meet with Mr. Wade and talk to him about the motion that I filed to disqualify you? On January, this first January motion? Yes. I don't know if you can say, talked about. I probably had some choice words about some of the things that you said that were dishonest within this motion. So I don't know that it was a conversation. As you know, Mr. Wade is a Southern gentleman. Me not so much. Alright, Chase, what do you got? As we're going through these, keep in mind, there's no politics here, just the behaviors and the things we see in these clips. Not the politics, not the case, just the behavior. And Holy smokes is her dress on backwards. Yes, her dress is being worn backwards. And that's only the beginning. The American flag is also sideways. And I saw that going right out of the gate here this morning. And she's qualifying the question. And this is a very high likelihood of deception when you hear this, someone qualifying and couching words and about a question. Then there's some disgust on her face and everything kind of goes like this when we know that facial expressions are universal in human beings. And her blink rate increases to above 50. Just keep in mind our blink rate is a stress measurement. Our average blink rate is about 17. Then we see bouncing up and down this repetitive movement and to quote Joan of Aral, all repetitive movement is self soothing. Then there's a non answer at the very end of the clip here. I didn't have a substantive conversation. This team that's talking to her needed to show here just to give you some context. This week is not just the very least, either Wade and or Willis, like co-mingled their assets or shared some type of income. Or they needed to show that these vacations that they took together that apparently Wade paid for was something that was not reimbursed and that therefore Fani benefited from vacations financially and it kind of amounted to some kind of a kickback kind of a deal. Scott, what do you got? Yeah, what have you got? At the very first when she starts talking, a lot of people are going to think, oh, I'm seeing a lip-persing where she's doing that. She's actually getting ready to repeat that word one or once or whatever the word is going to be. So because we're coming in late on the clip there. So it's not lip-persing. For the most part, we say that suggests the person doesn't agree with what's being said or what's happening. Which is actually what's happening here, but that's not lip-persing. So she squints and we're listening to her voice quiver. She's really unstable as far as her confidence goes during this. She's feeling a lot of psychological discomfort here. When she says, I've got some choice words about some things you said. She's moving up and down to the rhythm of those words. And also what we're seeing are a couple of micro expressions in there that are huge. Like when you're talking about chases where she does her whole face. And that was a combination of anger and disgust. And we see contempt in a little one here a little while, but it's so small. It's incredible. But not five seconds later, we see another small micro expression of a smaller version of the first micro expression. It's anger and disgust. She doesn't like this attorney and she doesn't like having to answer the questions this attorney is asking. It's getting her last nerve. For the first 12 seconds, she blinks almost zero. Nothing happened in there. I think maybe once probably. Then it's skyrockets to 84 blinks per minute on the average there as when she starts getting into the answer. So as the questions being asked, her brain locks in so she makes sure she takes in all the information she possibly can. That's why there's not a lot of blinking because she's really focused on that. But then when it starts firing off, she gets a little bit worked up. There's a stress level rises. Like you were saying earlier, Chase, that's when the blink rate starts going up. So together these are all cues of extreme stress that we're seeing. We'll talk about a breath rate later on because that goes up as well. Greg, what do you got? See, I see body language of altercation. I agree with you. She doesn't like this woman's asking her these questions. But if we run down the list, let's back up a second and say, what are we supposed to do when we're accused? If we're innocent, we protest and we're angry and we make a point of it. And I think I'm seeing that here. And that doesn't mean that she hasn't done anything, but she clearly has an adversarial relationship with this person. There's hard eye lock. You're right. She's taking in data. Hardly any movement at all. There are voice quivers. That's fight or flight. And I think it's fight in this case. There's blink rate and those per slips you're talking about. I agree with you. They're not disapproval, but we'll get plenty of that as we go under the desk. She's adapting with her feet and we see her bouncing as a result of it. There's disgust in her face. She's adversarial outright driving her head forward. There's respiration increase. There's narrowing of her mouth. We associate with anger. And then there's outright contempt. That's adversarial and appropriate if you're charged with something you disagree with. Or if you say you're lying in this document and which she outright says you're lying in this document. I'm not going to be as polite. So I expect her to be this direct, this driven. We would expect no less of somebody who is saying I'm innocent. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I think, I think Chase, there's a the counter argument to the dress would be that those, those darts at the front wouldn't work for the back. And they're only designed for the front. And but why have the zipper at the front? Why the bow in the wrong place? So I think there's all kinds of, we'll hear all kinds of arguments around, but, you know, suffice to say if it is, if it is round the right way, it's a terrible design. I think I don't like the design in any way whatsoever with the zipper at the front. I'll just say that I'll just say it's not a nice design. If that is, if that's the way it's meant to be worn. If it is round the wrong way, well, we've all been there. I mean, we've all, we've all put things on incorrectly. But what does it say about the state that you're in when that happens? Let's have a look at a breathing rate. It's really high all the way through. That's a heightened emotional state. Now, what emotion? What emotion is at a heightened state here? Things that you said, she says, and there's disgust and anger there. There's heightened emotional state around what others have said. I think in a document about her dishonest, she says. And so I think she is certainly emotionally charged around the incredulity of what has been said about her. To your point, Greg, somebody who is out, you know, outwardly lying doesn't tend to get that charged up about the facts of what they're saying have been lied about them. So clearly, you know, I'm not saying at this point that she hasn't done anything wrong, but she seems righteously enraged about the things that are in these documents. And I would say for her, what's in these documents she believes to be dishonest and their alliance being told about her. She believes that to be true. And maybe at such a heightened emotional level that she may have put her dress on the wrong way around that morning. That's how upset she is. One of those tape replays. Paul, once the motion was filed, did you meet with Mr. Wade and talk to him about the motion that I filed to disqualify you? On January, this first January motion? Yes. I don't know if you can say, talked about, I probably had some choice words about some of the things that you said that were dishonest was in this motion. So I don't know that it was a conversation. As you know, Mr. Wade is a southern gentleman. Me not so much. And you all start, when did you start dating? When I started dating Mr. Wade. It was right around then. April, 2022? 22. Yeah, it was around then. I don't know, like, you know, it's not like when you're in grade school and you send a little letter and it says, will you be my girlfriend and you check it? I don't know the day that we started seeing each other, but it was early 22, is my recollection. Okay, early 22. And you all went to Florida on vacation as well? I don't recall going to Florida on vacation with him. You never went to Florida with Mr. Wade? We went to, when we went to get on the cruise ship, we went to Miami. Okay, that's the only time that you went to Florida with him? I think we went to Miami and spent the night. That's my recollection. I think we spent one night so that we wouldn't miss the ship. That's my recollection of our vacation. Okay, for that hotel. In Miami? I don't remember that. And how'd you get to Miami? We would have flown. And we've done that so that I'm clear. We've done that twice. I think one time we stayed, and I honestly can't tell you, did we stay when the ship left, or did we stay when the ship came back? I also can't tell you, so there's two cruises out of Miami. There's one that's in that October time period that was with his mom. And then there was another that was a New Year's Eve trip. I know I paid for the New Year's Eve trip because the tickets were $6.97 each. And I thought, this is ridiculous, that the tickets are $700 to go to Miami. But when you travel during New Year's Eve, you know, they get you. Mark, where do you got? So really emphatic loud gestures we're getting on part of this. You're able to hear her hand suppress onto the table and make a noise. And now sometimes she isn't that emphatic. There are times when she is that emphatic. I know I paid for the New Year's Eve trip. Okay, so I'm going to say, you probably did pay for the New Year's Eve trip. Now, what about the other things? Wasn't so emphatic with those. But this seems to be very, very clear for her. Now, early 22 in my recollection, she says, and there's a single shoulder shrug. There's disdain and contempt. There's a big breath in and out as well. So there's a big cluster of behaviors that we haven't seen elsewhere around this idea of when this, I think the relationship started. And my guess is there's some contention around that. There must be an idea that if it started early on, then it plays better for the other side, I guess. So she seems a little bit unsure about that. Single shoulder shrug usually suggests there might be some uncertainty there. Disdain, contempt, is that for the questioning? Is that for the situation that she's in? I don't know. Big breath in and out again. It's like the brain needs a lot of oxygen around this one. Is this deception? I don't know whether it's deception, but it's certainly very different from the emphatic gestures we get on other parts. It could be a change in baseline in that she is unsure about why she's in this situation in the first place. She seems a little out of place here. I'm not saying she's a person that is not used to being in a court of law or the courts of law. My assumption is she is. I'm going to assume she isn't used to sitting there and having questions put towards her in this way. And I would say she is off balance on this one. Who wouldn't be? Who wouldn't be in this kind of situation? You came in to do what you're going to do, either for the law or for your team, or I don't know why she's doing what she's doing. But you probably didn't expect to be now in this position here. A little bit naive, maybe, but you didn't expect to be in this situation. And now you're not on a receiving end that you really wanted to be in. Greg, what have you got on this one? Yeah, I'm with you on a couple of things. Number one, let's talk about what I call request for approval. When a person holds their forehead up, it means nothing more than I need your approval. It doesn't mean that they're lying. It can mean that if it's in an appropriate time that you should look at it, but it's an indicator they're trying to get your buy-in. So it's her baseline. She does it all the time. If you watch her, her forehead's up, she's making her points and everything else. But there's a cluster. When you're asking when did she and this guy weighed first to get together, she repeats the question to distance. She chaffs. She's not like grade school. When we say chaff, we mean she's spewing out details. She's being snarky in part with the questioner because she's not a fan. But she's also, that gives her time to think when she throws out things like that. And she does that single shoulder rise with a chin point to it. Scott, I know you're going to talk about this. I won't steal it. But uncertainty coupled with the break in eye contact and move away isn't a good sign we're talking about when this first started. And that's when she says early 22. But the next question is, it's to the best of my re-recollection. I also see that percing of her lips this time I do believe is a percing and is disapproval. Her respiration is up. It's not as high as it was in the last time, but it's there. Then she says in Miami. So she didn't remember she went to Florida until you get down to specifics. And then she remembers specifically how much she paid for plane tickets to go to Florida. So that's not believable. In those cases where she does start to get emphatic mark, I agree with you as she does this. I'm not sure that her illustrators are hitting at the same point. You guys will have to help me there. But I do think that she has gone out of her way to avoid answering the question about when this thing started. If there's a place to be concerned, that would be it. The second part where she gets emphatic about spending the money seems realistic to me. Scott, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with you. I think we're seeing the truth and deception just peppered throughout this. I don't think it's half and half or anything, but I mean, it's a little bit of both. So when she says, when I started dating Mr. Wade, when she says those are questions, he repeats that question, so she has time to think. Doesn't seem like it's a lot of time to think for us when you lay it out and go, oh, is that a third of a second or something? But it's enough time for your brain to start structuring things and thinking up an answer or a attack to take when you're giving an answer. If you've been asked something that you may have to be untruthful about, I gotta be careful. So, and then when she says, it was right around then, she moves back in her chair a little bit. And usually when someone who's back in their chair, the way I see that is this, that means that could suggest a couple of things. It suggests they're not confident with their answer or they may be being deceptive at this point. I always tell the story about when I deal with entrepreneurs, when I was at the entrepreneur, I could tell you every time the financial person didn't know what they were talking about and got their information from somebody else because when you'd ask them about the finances, when they would start, they'd back up a little bit. And when I would ask them later, how come you're not the one that knows, why don't you know about this or that? So I just got here, I'm new, whatever the story was, where did you get it from? From so and so, tell me, okay. So just from years of doing that, I really, I feel good about saying when someone backs up a little bit, usually that means they're not confident and where they're being deceptive at that point. And then she squints to feign that deeper thought about what's going on. After that, she says it was early 2022 and we see that single shoulder shrug and that's when her chin goes to her shoulder. And I've told this story before as well. And I got it from Joe Navarro where you hear where when someone's being dishonest, quite often, like you were saying, Mark, when the single shoulder goes up, we see that as a lack of confidence. But when you see that single shoulder go up and that chin go toward it, in my experience as well, it is almost to the tee that person is being deceptive. So just from there are no studies with that or anything. And I have to tell you that from my point of view, that looks deceptive to me. We're seeing a lot of action in that brow, like you were talking about Greg, a lot of the eyebrows being up and a lot going on. It gets close to being a grief muscle, but it's not a grief muscle. It goes, it arcs a little bit, those wrinkles arc a bit, but they don't come in as an upside down horseshoe. Like we're used to seeing when we talk about the quote unquote, grief muscle there. And if you can't remember when you went to Miami and if you stayed before you left or stayed when you got back, sounds like she's doing cruises all the time. It sounds like she's going everywhere. If you can't remember the things that they're asking her about for your cruise, and you're doing a lot of cruising. There's a lot going on there. You're traveling a whole lot. And especially if you're supposed to be busy doing whatever you're normal, but she may be on vacation. She may take some month off or something. She does it all then. I have no idea. But she's cruising around a lot. She can't remember dates like that. Then we see at the end, we see those disappearing lips or stress mouth. And that lets us know if there's stress there as well. When someone's under a great degree of stress, we'll see that the lips literally disappear. They'll almost suck them into their head. We call it compressed lips most of the time. You just see that like that and they'll go away. So that lets us know there's a lot of stress there. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with y'all. And I just want you to process this, clarifying a question that any reasonable person would completely and fully understand. That's what we're seeing here. This is what's called a question repetition. When you see it in instances like this, where someone clearly understands the question and the subject matter of a question, this is a gigantic red flag. And then she's saying, not like when you're in grade school and we hand out a note or I'm paraphrasing, she smiles about this. I think she thinks it's clever and intelligent, but explaining yourself like this in court is a very bad idea for anybody. And personally, this is my opinion, I would think a district attorney would be very keenly aware of something like this. Then she says, early 22 is my recollection. There's that single shrug that Scott, you were talking about. And the other behaviors here, this is a mountain of red flags. There's question repetition, qualifying the answers, hesitancy, single shrug, more hesitancy again at the mentioning of seeing each other. Just this alone is a score of 20 on the behavior table of elements since people tend to like that. Where a score of 11 or more indicates a high likelihood of deception, this was a 20. She keeps repeating Miami when the question is about Florida. And if I'm doing the question here, if I'm the one doing the questioning, two giant things automatically come to mind. Either one, she's unsure if Miami is in Florida or not. And within this conversation, she's also unable to understand which continent countries are in. In this interview, we're not gonna analyze that piece, but she didn't know which continent this stuff was in. So maybe that's the case. Or number two, she's locking down her speech to only mention Miami because something else in Florida is being concealed or hidden from me. So if I ask about Florida and I see a huge laser focus on Miami, I'm gonna ask a question about anywhere else in Florida. Is there somewhere else in Florida? Maybe a question like that. So the second half of this clip was so full of stuff that it would take me an hour to go through it. So what I just covered just now was just the first 48 seconds of the clip. That's all I got. I think when she's talking about that, it's like a thing when you're a little kid, I think she's trying to get that familiarity thing with her to make the attorney like her better. I think she's trying to connect with her for that brief second or something. I can't figure out why she would go down the road either. I think it's the opposite. I think she's trying to win over viewers. Maybe so, maybe that's it. I just, that was so odd to hear. I think there's a hell of a lot of sarcasm in that statement. I think she was being sarcastic and snarky. Picking up on your sarcasm. Y'all remember that line from Tommy Boy? So Greg, point of order. Why is this happening in Fulton County? So because it's where he apparently called and talked to the Fulton County guy, talked to Ruffinsberger, I think it's the guy. So it's under their, it's their purview. Potential crime has been under their jurisdiction. Yeah, yeah. And Fulton County is Atlanta. When people think of Atlanta, they think of the six and a half million, five million, whatever the magic number is today, people that live in the metro, but Atlanta proper is probably four to 600,000, depending on what you read, people living in Fulton County slash Atlanta. Right. That makes sense. So it is accidental that she happens to be in charge of this. You know, I haven't done enough study on this whole thing to be able to answer that for you, Mark, but I know there were, this is where they pointed to anomalies and where he called and said, can't you find, I believe where he called and said, can't you find X number of votes in this canine? I haven't spent enough time on the actual details of the trial. So I'm not going to go too deep, but realizing that that is a, is the core of the city of Atlanta. When we talk about the city of Atlanta, it is the city. And then everything else is just neighborhoods, subdivisions. And there probably crime happened somewhere else and they decided, oh, well, let's prosecute it in this state or this county. It is about the geographical location. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And, you know, Georgia is a very, Georgia is a lot like New York in that there's this massive city and then lots of smaller little towns and then a lot of rural area. So 60% of the population probably lives in the Atlanta Metro. One of those tape replays. And you all start, when did you start dating? When I started dating Mr. Wade. It was right around then. April, 2022? 22, yeah, it was around then. I don't know, like, you know, it's not like when you're in grade school and you send a little letter and it says, will you be my girlfriend and you check it? I don't know the day that we started seeing each other, but it was early 22 is my recollection. Okay, early 22. And you all went to Florida on vacation as well? I don't recall going to Florida on vacation with him. You never went to Florida with Mr. Wade? We went to, when we went to get on the cruise ship, we went to Miami. Okay, that's the only time that you went to Florida with him? I think we went to Miami and spent the night. That's my recollection. I think we spent one night so that we wouldn't miss the ship. That's my recollection of our vacation. Okay, for that hotel. In Miami? I don't remember that. And how'd you get to Miami? We would have flown. And we've done that so that I'm clear. We've done that twice. I think one time we stayed and I honestly can't tell you, did we stay when the ship left or did we stay when the ship came back? I also can't tell you, so there's two cruises out of Miami. There's one that's in that October time period that was with his mom. And then there was another that was a New Year's Eve trip. I know I paid for the New Year's Eve trip because the tickets were $6.97 each. And I thought this is ridiculous that the tickets are $700 to go to Miami, but when you travel during New Year's Eve, they get you. So the seven continents. And so he has both a personal travel agent and he also has a cruise travel agent. I don't know anything about either of those kind of travel agents. So he is the one that would book the travel, but we need to be clear when we're talking about just because he booked it, doesn't mean, like I don't consider him having taken me any place. Let me just be honest. The only point that's ever taken somebody someplace is for his 50th birthday, I consider that I took him to Belize. And I took him to Belize because I don't want to discuss his personal business, but I'm happy Mr. Wade is still here with us. And I did 50 big, very big. So still on that October, a world for being cruised. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so again, really strong gestures on, I took him to Belize. So she wants to be really clear about, about where her power has been. And I imagine because she's feeling power being taken away from her in one aspect and she needs to take hold of it in another. And so, yeah, loud and suppressive gestures on that, very strong, 50 big, again, loud and suppressive. She wants us to know that she made a big deal out of this 50 party. But around that and before that, it's a little less, it's a little more equivocation. It's a little more ambiguous to travel agents. I don't know about those. So there's stuff that she really, really knows and she wants to know that she knows that and other stuff, which is now very ambiguous and she doesn't really know about. And then she says, I don't want to discuss his personal business around this 50 and big. Well, you just, you just leaked it to us. I mean, you just, you just told us exactly what's good. So just so, just so you know this, if I ever come up to anybody and go, listen, this is a secret, so don't tell anybody this. I'm trying to get the message out to every major news agency there is there. That's, if I've told you this is a secret and I'm gonna tell you, yeah, if it's a secret, you won't hear about it ever, ever, ever. If I want you to know about it and I want everybody to know about it, I will take you into a corner and very quietly go, listen, I can't, I'm not meant to tell you this, but so don't tell anybody, but here's the information. And then I'm expecting it to be on the news the next day. So I don't know why she's saying, I don't want to discuss his personal business and then leaking to us some idea of, of I would imagine some kind of serious, serious illness with this person and that 50 was, was gonna be potentially the last one in her mind and make it, that's certainly the narrative that I've made out of it. And maybe I've made completely the wrong narrative out of that, but certainly that's what I take from it. Scott, what do you got on this one? I agree with you, but she says, I took him to Belize, I think she's taken him down there for cancer treatment at four his birthday, that's what it sounds like when you step back and just like what you were saying, I think we all came to the same conclusion for that. And that's pretty rude for her to do that, especially if he didn't want anybody to know. That's not cool, man. You can't be going around telling people stuff like that if you don't want them to know. And another part of her interview, she says, I don't want to emasculate him. So what she's tried to say is, I think maybe it had something to do with that kind of thing because she didn't want to talk about what the problem was at that point. So I think that's pretty rude that she said, she was talking about his health stuff on TV and she knows it's gonna be on TV and there's no need for her to bring that up at that point. And then she said, I did 50 real big, she shows stress when we see that stress now. So I think those are some of the, I couldn't get past the part where she was telling about he'd been, she'd take him down there for a sickness. I'm trying to word this, I'm didn't come out blatantly say something, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, just a handful of things. And I look, I agree, she's probably divulging something. It could be mental health, it could be who knows. I don't try to conjecture. I just know, yeah, I'd probably be able to pissed if you said something about me like that. I agree with you guys there. But what I do love is this excusing body language you can't miss when she has sarcasm in her face and wipes away his two travel agents. That's beautiful. That is a good example of a gesture or what I would call an emblematic gesture with your face so that a person is using something as cultural meaning, I think it's very cultural. I see it all the time here where I live. This is my home after all. All that facial expression, just excusing you. And then she does something that's interesting for me. She says, she has said, now let me be clear up till now. Now we need to be clear because she's shifting. We need to be clear. Now we got a pronoun shift and some blame sharing when she shifts gears and starts to talk about who's paying. I want to know more and I want to ask questions. Then she says, I don't consider someone taking me. When you say that, I would quickly say, okay, well who paid then? Let's just clear this up. It doesn't matter who took who, who carried who, who did whatever language you want to use, who paid. That's all I want to know. Let's keep it clean and simple, but they don't use some kind of edgy language and that kind of thing. And then she's got a lot of that forehead up this time, more than usual. And she says, I took him to Belize. When she says, I took him to Belize, watch her eyes go out of focus. It's an interesting internal conversation. Her eyes go out of focus and then she disengages down to the right. And when I say go out of focus, I think they're kind of in the middle and they just kind of go to internal focus. And then she drops down to her right as she talks about this something big happened and she was taking him for 50 big. I think we see a mismatched illustrator here as she's emphatic and driving her points down. I think they missed the actual words. So there's a lack of confidence in some of what she's saying. She's shifting pronouns. I would probably ask cleaner, more concise questions, but I think there's a lot of battle going on between these two people. I don't know what their history is, no idea. It could be not history related, it could be related to the case and to the defense. And we're gonna hear her get a little more animated as we go through here. And remember, just because a person is fighting against you doesn't mean they're lying when they're trying to hide something, but we'll get to more details and ask more questions in here. We've already seen a deviation from baseline in the beginning, but she's back to mostly baseline here with the exception of those couple of things. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, so I agree with y'all. And she's almost seemingly indignant and offended that she has to answer questions here. And she's explaining all of her answers using an upward tone, which is out of her baseline. So this is, we're hitting a hot point. We're seeing a lot of shifts from her normal behavior. She seems to be offended at the thought of being taken on a trip or someone offering her any kind of aid. And she says, I consider that I took him to Belize. I consider that I took him to Belize. This is a weird way to say something that should be pretty basic, especially for an attorney. So keep an eye out when people do this in your own life. It's almost always meaning that something's being hidden from you. And when she says, I did 50 big, this took me a minute to understand what she was talking about and she says it with such contempt that it's almost like she's angry and bragging at the same time. And she seems to become very fragile if her level of power or significance is being called into question here. And again, these are all of our opinions, but she has all the behavioral trademarks of what I call a status collector. And this is someone who uses trappings like clothing, bake statements, belongings, cars, social standings to display status. And they're typically more concerned with the display of status than actual status. So this is an initial read here and it's just an opinion of someone that's like this. But we'll see if maybe I get proven wrong or right here in the coming videos, which I'm open to. One of those tape replays. Of the seven continents. And so he has both a personal travel agent and he also has a cruise travel agent. I don't know anything about either of those kinds of travel agents. So he is the one that would book the travel, but we need to be clear when we're talking about just because he booked it, doesn't mean, like I don't consider him having taken me any place. Let me just be honest. The only point that's ever taken somebody someplace is for his 50th birthday, I consider that I took him to Belize. And I took him to Belize because, I don't wanna discuss his personal business, but I'm happy Mr. Wade is still here with us. And I did 50 big, very big. So let's talk about both of those. I know he initially paid for it. Did you pay him back? For the cruise and for Aruba. Yeah, I gave him as many before we ever went on that trip. You gave him cash before you ever went on the trip? Mm-hmm. Okay. And so when you got cash to pay him back on these trips, would you go to the ATM? No, lady. You would not go to the ATM? No. Okay. Fulton County pays you direct depositized him? Yes, Fulton County and the state of Georgia both pay me direct deposits. Okay. So the cash that you would pay him, you wouldn't get it out of the bank? I have money in my house. You have money in your house. So it was just money that was there? When you meet my father, he was gonna tell you as a woman, you should always have, which I don't have, so let's don't tell him that. You should have at least six months in cash at your house at all times. I don't know why this old black man feels like that, but he does. When we were growing up, my daddy had three safes in the house. So my father's bought me a lock box and I always keep cash in the house. Now, I don't do it to the degree that my father would do it, so he would probably be ashamed with me, but I always have cash at the house. That has been, I don't know, all my life. If you're a woman and you go on a date with a man, you better have $200 in your pocket. So if that man acts up, you can go where you wanna go. So I keep cash in my house and I don't keep cash as good in my purse like I used to because I don't go on many dates, but when you go on a date, you should have cash in your pocket. So my question was, where did that cash originally come from? Greg, what do you got? So I see Chase, I agree with you. She is fed up. I think she feels like she's above this and I think she feels like this is politics and I think whether she's right or wrong, politics is an ugly business and I feel like she is being put, she feels like she's being put on the griddle in front of people because of something that she doesn't deserve. If you wanna just look at the body language piece of it, that I'm above all this, she's very contained and very curt and you can see that she is trying her best not to show absolute contempt as she goes through this. So that's cultural. We always say, I told you guys a long time ago, good buddy of mine told me one time, you can be passionate because you're white and then I'm passionate, I'm angry. And that's an important part to remember that people perceive often in our culture, African-American folks as angry when they're passionate. So I think a lot of times, especially if you're in roles and you're in government, you have to be a little more contained and people can't really wear that. If you wanna know how she feels, she's leaned back looking down her nose with her forehead up, that's what you got. That's what you got, that's all day. Bring it, whatever you got, just bring it. And then you watch her blink rate increase and you watch her narrowing her lips and her eyes and purse her lips finally in disapproval. And then that entire posture change, that's just a, come on. I think when you see that, that's authoritarian almost. When I'm willing to sit back in court and go, is that all you got? That's a huge thing. And I think that anger is part of what we're seeing in this reason for all this movement. She probably does have cash in her house, don't know how much, don't know if it's enough to cover all this. But the real rub here has nothing to do with the questioning and everything to do with the person, everything to do with how it's being approached, in my opinion. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, so there's something in this clip that I call a detail Mount Everest. And it's about the story of her father and maybe even some good advice for people, I don't know. But when you see a mountain of detail coming out of somebody like this, what comes after a mountain of valley? And then there's a detail valley. So somebody who offers a tremendous amount of detail about a topic that's completely irrelevant and then offers a tiny or zero detail in this case about a topic that is more relevant and more close to the question being asked, you've got what I believe is one of the top three red flags of deception in the world. And this is such a perfect display of detail mountain and detail valley that I'm going to be using this video for training. When she's asked about getting the money from the ATM, here's what you're gonna see. You're gonna see a huge postural adjustment leaning to her right, forehead is relaxed until she looks up and makes eye contact. And this behavior, this eyebrow flash behavior is so programmed into us that I've got a two month old baby here at my house, my baby, and she does this. She does this to get approval. Then we see lip licking, which is we associate with stress and it's a hygienic gesture. Then we see eye closure or eye blocking during the denial at the precise moment she makes a denial. And there's some serious discomfort in the hand under her chin, then to the front of the chin, then to the face of multiple adjustments in the course of two seconds. Then there's covering the mouth and the lips when answering the question. This is, in my opinion, one of the largest clusters of behavior that might indicate deception that we've ever covered here on our show at all. Scott, what do you got? I agree with you. Yeah, you've covered a lot. I'm trying to get rid of the stuff that you're talking about and not do it. But I think what happens here, we're seeing her set up and we're seeing a change in baseline here because of that lean back when her hand goes to her face and she starts touching her lip and she starts pushing her finger into her face, we're gonna see that quite often after this. So those are the things that help her relax as well. And those are her pacifiers, her adapters and when she gets rid of that built up stress and tension and comforts herself. So we're gonna see that quite often after this. And then she gets really still when she starts that lean back and gets back there, she gets really still and it lets us know she's trying to take control of the situation because maybe she's got so much stress, she's not gonna flip out, but she's gonna get overheated, let's say. So maybe she's trying to calm down a little bit. And then she starts that the mother of all chaff and redirection, she starts going down this road. It's real and the whole time I was watching that, I was like, I couldn't help but think of Greg the whole time because it was almost ridiculous how far out of the way this little story goes as she's going along right there. What are you gonna say, Greg? Oh, nothing. Oh, I thought you were coming to say something. Mark, where do you go? Yeah, well, first of all, Chase, I liked how you qualified that it's your baby that you have. Me too, I was thinking of that. And I just wanna substantiate it is Chase's baby that has borrowed it, stolen it. I forget it, Chase, you're too... I have a random two-year-old in any way. It's actually, you know, it's actually his baby just in case anybody worries. That's why a baby is around at Chase's house right now. Couldn't agree with you more. There is a large cluster of changes on this. As I see her really getting boxed in by this question around the cash, like where did you, you know, where's your proof of where this cash comes? Because the insinuation is here, especially in a modern age, most importantly in a modern age, being somebody myself, I don't carry cash at all. I can't remember the last time I had any note or coin in my hands. And so it's very easy in a modern age to go, anybody with cash is nefarious in some way. It's gotta be illegal. If anybody has cash in their hands, it's gotta be illegal. And that's the insinuation here. And I think she sees herself getting boxed in. Now, maybe she had that cash for bad reasons. I don't know, but big cluster change here. And what she comes up with in my mind is a cultural family and gender tradition and necessity around having the cash. So she goes back to her dad and she goes, look, it's a cultural and family tradition to have cash and also as a woman, you're gonna need $200 so that you can get yourself anywhere in a tricky situation, especially if you're dating. I mean, given that, she gives a reasonable narrative around that given the insinuation, I think is anybody handling large amounts of cash must be, can't be telling the, what do you have there, IRS, isn't it? Can't be telling the IRS where that came from. And the insinuation probably is some underhand payments going, I mean, it's easy for the mind to wander into these ideas once they've been put forward. So, look, nice, I think, there could be a couple of things going on here. Either the cash is in a ferris in some way and that's why there's the cluster around this or she knows that there is the insinuation there and it's not a good optic. Her going, I can't, I mean, I just got cash under the bed and having to explain that doesn't do her any favors. Now, same time, Greg, to your point, look, you don't get into what is absolutely a political battle, not knowing there will be a lot of blood all over the carpet and floorboards. And to my understanding, having asked about this, this landed on her desk. She potentially hasn't, I mean, I guess she chose to pick it up or not pick it up, but I guess if it lands on your desk, you've got to prosecute it or you say, we're not prosecuting this. Anybody prosecuting this has got to know the other side or a side is coming at you and they will not spare you because in politics, there's only one thing you're meant to be doing which is to win and win at absolutely any cost. And both sides will try and win. Having been there, we try and win at absolutely any cost and we don't care who goes under. And nobody's falling on their swords on this one, which means somebody is gonna have to get one in the back. Now with her, we maybe won't know which is the back and the front because the dress is not in the back. I got that, I got that in the end. There was gonna be something. I knew there was some tie in there. I'm up voting. Thank you very much. I wish I had my hat on. I would take it off for you for that. That was good. One of those tape replays. So let's talk about both of those. I know he initially paid for it. Did you pay him back? For the cruise and for Aruba. Yeah, I gave him as many people we ever went on that trip. You gave him cash before you ever went on the trip? Okay. And so when you got cash to pay him back on these trips, would you go to the ATM? No, lady. You would not go to the ATM? No. Okay. So Fulton County pays you direct depositized him? Yes, Fulton County and the state of Georgia both pay me direct deposits. Okay. So the cash that you would pay him, you wouldn't get it out of the bank. I have money in my house. You have money in your house. So it was just money that was there. When you meet my father, he was gonna tell you as a woman you should always have, which I don't have. So let's don't tell him that. You should have at least six months in cash at your house at all times. Now, I don't know why this old black man feels like that, but he does. When we were growing up, my daddy had three safes in my house. So my father's bought me a lock box and I always keep cash in the house. Now I don't do it to the degree that my father would do it. So he would probably be ashamed with me, but I always have cash at the house. That has been, I don't know, all my life. If you're a woman and you go on a date with a man, you better have $200 in your pocket. So if that man acts up, you can go where you wanna go. So I keep cash in my house and I don't keep cash as good in my purse like I used to because I don't go on many dates, but when you go on a date, you should have cash in your pocket. So your office objected to us getting Delta records for flights that you may have taken with Mr. Wayne. Well, no, no, look, I object to you getting records. You've been intrusive into people's personal lives. You're confused. You think I'm on trial. These people are on trial for trying to steal an election in 2020. I'm not on trial. No matter how hard you try to put me on trial. So my question was, you have any problem? I objected to getting any personal records of mine. We're not dealing with privilege through a witness. And I'm not, no, no, no, I'm not dealing with privilege with what we had offered to put them in camera for the court to review. And I just want to know if she. All right, Chase, what do you got? No, this, I'm no attorney. And I don't know this person very well. I'm just looking at the behavior, but I've worked in trial consulting for a long time. I've picked a lot of juries and worked a lot of cases. This looks to be just bizarre behavior. It's the nicest way I can say it. When I was eight years old, my grandmother would watch Matlock all the time and you would see Andy Griffith rile these people up on the stand and make fools of themselves. And I learned at the age of eight that this behavior is inappropriate for the courtroom if you want to look innocent or if you want to look like you're doing the right thing. I was eight years old when I learned this. The person in this video clip is a district attorney. So let's look into this behavior as a profiler. So stay with me on this quick thought experiment. Number one, we can reasonably assume that she knows this is a bad idea and that she's at least competent enough to know that this would maybe make someone look bad on the stand. Two, we can also probably assume that she knows how to behave in court as a district attorney. If those two things are true, then what might we be able to understand about her level of self-restraint and self-control if those two things are true? So one of the things being called into question in this exchange is her level of restraint and control with finances and maybe accepting gifts I think is one of the things on the, or kickbacks or whatever. So can we reasonably assume that for almost anyone if they lack self-control in one area in their life which is a main area in their life, their everyday job that they might also lack it in other areas? That's just a behavior profiled perspective. Mark, what are you? Yeah, so we get neck protection there adapting on the mic, which we've not seen before. To your point, Chase, very much on this idea around her accepting money when she shouldn't be accepting money. Well, my guess is, is because of her role the moment that becomes a possibility your whole, every case you've ever prosecuted surely might come into question somewhat. So my guess is she never went into this role expecting that she was gonna sit there and somebody would go, okay, I'm now gonna get into the details of your relationships and put your whole career on the line for this case that presumably landed on her desk which she has to prosecute on behalf of the people because she's the people's prosecutor. I mean, terrible case to land it because you've gotta know if you prosecute that they, you know anybody's gonna come at you, they're gonna come at you and why is the case there? Because another side don't want the other side to win. It's a game of two teams and only one of the teams can win and she's stuck in it. Maybe she took a side, I really don't know about that. I'm sure there'll be plenty of comments around what side you feel she's on, what side you think I'm on or we're on and you might be right, you might be wrong about any and all of those or it might be some kind of continuum around that. But look, she says, I'm not on trial. Now look, here's the issue is when you're sitting there in that particular box saying I'm not on trial, that's a bad look because clearly you are in this situation. You are, the non-verbal is is that you are the person on trial here and so it's a terrible position to have got yourself into or taken or been put into to be saying I'm not on trial and there you are in the box. Greg, what do you got on this one? So let's talk about, technically it may not be a trial to your point Mark, it may not be legally a trial but you're certainly on trial in the public eye when you're in front of these people. Here's the interesting piece, let's forget about what she's telling the truth and not don't care, not important to me in this video. What is important to me is the messaging she's sending to us, to me, to you. And if you ever wanna know how people behave in court, they behave in a way that shows you they know they're not in charge. That's not what she is doing. She is showing that she feels entitled to better. She's actually indignant. She does, I object that throat protection is self-protection of course, could be a comforting move that she does all the time, I don't know but we all know that people put their hands to their throat for protection. She eye blocks her cadence of speaking shifts. She starts to go really aggressive and then I don't see anything to do with deception. I see entitlement, and here's what I would call this is messaging of authority if you wanna see a great example. She sits back in her chair, throws her chin up, her brow goes up, her lips narrow. There's no pretense of posture in the chair. She's just slack. That who, when you're sitting in front of authority of any kind and you go to slack, that's blowing somebody off very clearly. To me, then we see that contained anger. You can see anger now and she's got that emphatic down tone and cadence shift and you can just see it. Any person, records of my own, she's after them, she's angry with them and she's just got absolute contempt. Then she adapts in the chair, her blink rate increases and she touches her face. That has nothing to do with whether she's being deceptive or not but I will say Chase, you said it, Mark, you said it. Scott, I'm sure you'll have something to do with it. When you're sitting in front of a group of people and whether you're officially on trial or something else and you are not concerned about their opinion, it could be cultural, it could be trying to send a message to your team or the other team and Mark, I don't know whether she's signed up, joined up and said, hey, let me prosecute this or whether it was handed to her. Doesn't really matter. She is not concerned with anybody's opinion of what she's doing here at least from what I can see, my opinion. Scott, what do you got? I think her limbic system gets lit up here and when that happens, it's fear fighter, freeze fighter flight. I think she chose fight during this because we see a micro expression of anger or voice volume definitely goes up. She gets louder. We see her nostrils flare, see another micro expression of anger and then she adjusts the mic and then she covers her throat and then she starts this other chaff and redirect. I thought the other one was the mother of all chaff and redirects but this one is huge. This is just about as big as that one. So she's been, in other words, she's been cornered. We all act the same way. And she goes back again to that thing where she leans back in the seat and she starts coming to her throat. So that's become part of her baseline now. I think that's her safety and I agree with you, Greg. I think in a group like that, especially when you've got an attorney there and a judge there as well, everybody's looking at you, the world. Well, maybe not the world, but the US is looking at you. Can you lean back there and do that? I'll tell you what, that either takes a whole lot of confidence or a whole lot of, well, I don't think it's confidence, but yeah, you gotta be careful there. But I think she's in a panic mode at this point. So that's why we're seeing all those things happen with her, not to go back over a lot of things you guys talked about already. I think it is confidence. I think she's confident that she's got a right to say exactly what she's saying. But it's the type of confidence Oh yeah. One of those tape replays. So your office objected to us getting Delta records for flights that you may have taken with Mr. Wayne. Well, no, no, no, look, I object to you getting records. You've been intrusive into people's personal lives. You're confused. You think I'm on trial. These people are on trial for trying to steal an election in 2020. I'm not on trial. No matter how hard you try to put me on trial. So my question was, do you have any problem? I object to getting any personal records of mine. We're not dealing with privilege through a witness. And I'm not, no, no, no, I'm not dealing with privilege. What we had offered to put them in camera for the court to review. And I just want to know if she had. Do we just have a handshake request? I can handle this, say that. Let's have it. She asked about her personal relationship. She asked when the romantic relationship ended. That's the question. It's sometime in, I'd say late summer of 2023. But I don't believe in, this is what you're really asking about. This is the salaciousness of all of this, right? I'm just asking about your romantic relationship when you stopped dating. I'm asking. I think that me and Mr. Wade, so he's a man, he probably would say, June or July. I would say we had a tough conversation in office. So that many in relationships at the end of physical intimacy, women in relationships when that tough conversation takes place. And where, when did he come to, I guess the condo, I'm not sure what you called it, condo apartment, would he come and stay at that condo or visit you there? I'm sorry, visit you there. What condo apartment? I want to be clear. So not your house. I know you classified one as house and one as condo. So I'm trying to use those terms. So there's been more, see what you don't understand is because of this case, I got a move. And so, I, Mr. Wade, if you could ask a more precise question. Please give me the time period. Mr. Wade, visit you at the place you laid your head. When has he ever visited you at the place you laid your head? So let's be clear cause you've lied in this. Let me tell you which one you lied in, right here. Thank you. Right here. No, no, no, no. This is the truth. It is a lie. It is a lie. Mr. Will, Mr. Stano, thank you. We're going to take five minutes. You're back in five. All right, Greg, what do you got? So here that indignation that we just saw that messaging of authority is gone. Now she's turning softer. Now she goes into an emotional eye accessing and her eyes, when I say internal focus, you watch a person's focus, what they're looking at. Doesn't matter where their eyes go. When their eyes stop focusing on something external, their brain is functioning. They're going through some kind of internal conversation. I don't care where their eyes are. If I look and stare off in the distance, it's a thousand yard stare that veterans get because they're thinking about something else. Then her eyes almost jump up like shock when she's asked another question she doesn't feel comfortable with. I think when she does this is when it's something that's hard to talk about for her. I don't think it's necessarily deceptive. I think it's comforting because there's something that she's feeling uncomfortable talking about. But she's navigating this conversation with emotional accessing, whether it's downright or you can see that she's working on which words to say. She's back to, I want to be clear. She's back to her pattern when she's locking down the fact, I want to be clear. Now we need to be clear. She braces her hands on her face, tilts her head and closes her eyes again. So I can see she's fed up. Her voice starts to quiver again that you lied right there. I think the core of what we're seeing. Forget all the politics, forget what's going on. If this were a case about a dog biting a kid, you would think, why is this interchange going the way it is? This woman is angry. And DA, president, king, laundry person, garbage man, anybody is going to get angry about certain things. I think we see angry and fed up in her. And when she says you lied right there, her voice quivers. And then there's a genuine look in her face of I've had enough. And if you don't believe it, now I'm going to quote Mark. Here comes the passion plane. You see your hands come up in the passion plane and her cadence shift. And her cadence, voice, body language and all that are there. This is a lie. Looks believable. Mark, what do you see? Yeah, I agree. That is demonstrative at that point. I mean, she clearly says it's a lie. The bureaucracy, the judge has no appetite for that being said in the court and dissolves it, not dissolves it there and then, but certainly says, let's take a break on that. So it's all getting wildly out of hand, I think at this point. To your point, Greg, like I don't care who you are, get you under enough stress. Doesn't matter how you got in that grand position that you're in, get you under enough stress and you'll start leaking all kinds of stuff. She's already told us secrets or intimate health secrets of the boyfriend. She's now leaking personal opinion around men and women and what she feels is the categorical difference between them. Get disgust and anger on men as well. I don't know whether that's about a particular man or men in general or her idea of men and how they perform and how women perform under relationships, but whatever it is, it's not a really good optic for her. It just doesn't really look very good to display those kind of negative emotions around one category over the other category. So I would say it's all breaking down pretty quick at this point. Chase, what do you got on this one? I have to agree. And Greg, I love that you brought up. Let's, like, if you could just imagine watching all of these behaviors about something erroneous, about something that's not related to politics, about somebody that has an overdue library book. And just, that's how I tend to watch all these videos, just as if it was about an overdue library book. And that's kind of actually what I tell myself when I'm watching these. But at this question of when did the romantic relationship in there's disgust on her face when she's mentioning the date, very specifically. And her answers are still very ambiguous and vague. She openly addresses the salaciousness, I think she says, of all this. This is something I personally would expect someone to do with zero legal training who decides to represent themselves in some kind of trial or cross-examination there. I would never, I've trained a lot of attorneys. I've never seen an attorney that would do something like this. So it's just unusual. And maybe that goes to the level of stress. I know she's under a lot of stress. Her life's being torn apart. I can't imagine how stressful that is. And she says, I would say we had a tough conversation in August and didn't answer the question. Then there's mouth covering, which we sometimes associate with deception, but then we see blink rate go up. How often we blink is a stress indicator. And she then lectures us about men and women instead of answering the question, which was not about men and women, but it was about her. Not men and women. And during this debate about the condo versus the apartment, this is the most, I was embarrassed watching this. Like my empathy watching this, I felt embarrassed watching it. It's just avoidance and misdirection and what I call micro-scoping. When somebody zooms into an irrelevant detail to redirect somebody's focus. And she's saying, here's what I heard in this. Here is her answers to all of this statement. She says, what condo? What apartment? But there's been more than see, you don't understand. I gotta move, when? She says, when? Not where, when? So let's be clear. There's no, there's not a single answer in any of this. There's no answer. So it's hard to analyze for deception because there is no answer. There's no answer at all. So I have a hard time believing a lot of this. Just it's so much redirection. There's nothing substantive here. Scott, what do you got? All right, yeah, I agree with you 100%. And Mark also, when she starts talking about men, we're seeing contempt there as well. So you look on the left side of her face, left side of it. Then you'll see that it goes up just a little bit right there, not a whole lot. So, and I also, I can't decide if she's mad at him or men in general, I would assume it's him. But I don't know, it's a relationship, so who knows. But there are quite a few negative emotions that flash across her face as she goes through this. We see anger, disgust, scorn, contempt. Her limb, her limbic system is still wide awake. That thing is on because she's angry. And I can see before she chose fight in this. So like you were talking about, Greg, she's adapting with her finger on her chin. And this is, she's in her baseline now for this questioning, that's where she's sitting. Most of the time it's the place she goes to for that, I guess, trying to get some psychological comfort from all the psychological discomfort going on. Then actually, after she explains her view of men and women breaking up, she practically puts her finger in her mouth. She has it up here and it's so far pushed in that it's almost in her mouth. And we connect those as when you put your finger to your mouth, that sends a signal into your brain to relax. So that's another signal for me to know this is a really high stress situation for her. Obviously it would be, she's angry and she knows everybody's looking at her and she's still trying to find her way out of this. And like you were saying, Chase, there's no answer there, man. She's just talking about all kinds of different things at this point. Then she chaps, she attempts another chaff and redirect as she gets worked up and didn't work, this one didn't work either. She just keeps getting so mad. The judge finally says, hang on everybody, let's take, we need a five minute break with this. And it's just, and I agree with you, Chase, I felt apathetic for her as well, because man, when she looks back on this and goes, holy smokes, I did all this wearing a backwards dress. The reader's having a question. I can handle this, say that. Let's have it. She asked about her personal relationship. She asked when the romantic relationship ended. That's the question. It's sometime in, I'd say late summer of 2020. So I don't believe men, this is what you're really asking about. This is the salaciousness of all of this, right? I'm just asking about your romantic relationship. When you stopped dating? I'm asking, I think that me and Mr. Wade, so he's a man, he probably would say, June or July, I would say we had a tough conversation in office. So that many in relationships at the end of physical intimacy, women in relationships when that tough conversation takes place. And where, did he come to, I guess the condo, I'm not sure what you called it, condo apartment, would he come and stay at that condo or visit you there? I'm sorry, visit you there. What condo, what apartment? I wanna be clear. So not your house. I know you classified one as house and one as condo. So I'm trying to use those terms. So there's been more, see what you don't understand is because of this case, I got a move. And so I, I need to- Mr. Merchant, if you could ask a more precise question. Please give me the time period. Mr. Wade visits you at the place you laid your head. When? Has he ever visited you at the place you laid your head? So let's be clear cause you've lied in this, let me tell you which one you lied in, right here. Thank you, lied right here. No, no, no, no, no, this is the truth. Judge, this is- It is a lie. It is a lie. We're gonna start. Mr. Sainaw, thank you. We're gonna take five minutes. Do that can fine. Did you ever pay him through cash app? No. You only ever paid him through cash? Yes, but we're talking about, I'm very confused now. Never given Mr. Wade money through cash app. No. The only money you've ever given him outside of a contract is cash. I didn't give him money in a contract. So that was cute, but I didn't give him money outside in a contract. What happened? No, we're gonna answer it since you said it. He worked, he worked more hours than he was paid and the county paid him for the work that he did. So don't be cute with me and then think that you're not gonna get an answer. And I will ask you about the contract in a minute. I asked you about cash. All right, Mark, where do you got? Yeah, just nice move there. That hand up regulator, little flutter of the fingers there around the cute idea there, but a very clear, suppressive gesture to shut that idea down. The idea here that she gave him money in a contract, in a contract, she gave him money in a contract. I mean, to her point, it was beautifully slipped in there by the, I'm gonna call it prosecution, but again, I'm unsure whether she's being, whether this is a hearing or I don't know what the hell, I don't know what the hell's going on here. All I know is somebody wants to win. That's all somebody wants to win and somebody's gonna have to lose in order for somebody to win. So hand up regulator, super clear. She calls out the below the wire insinuation there. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, this is a really good one. Now, I said early on, I thought I saw deception around that when did the relationship start? Only real deception. I'm saying, look, when people are angry, they're gonna behave certain ways, but also when they're trying to mask things, they're gonna behave certain ways as well. Those can mimic each other occasionally, but what I see here is she's honest. She goes on one hand, on the other hand, that's great congruent body language. Then she retreats to that, back to that, that's enough posture, that authoritarian posture. And then I see something that I don't like. When she asked about sending him money through cash apps or Venmo, she's like, she says no almost, but puts her hand to her mouth and you can see that fleeting look of terror interface or did I ever, did I ever? I can just see it in her face, you can't miss it. And there's that startled expression where their eyes open really wide. That then makes me concerned. So I've got two things now that make me concerned out of all this, because if people feel justified and angry, they're gonna show a lot of the same body language that they'll show when they're feeling fight or flight because they're afraid. So it's just one of those things to pay attention to. And then these two women, their voices are rising and they're on each other's nerves and you can't miss it because you can hear tone change. Remember, I would say, I don't need to teach you tone. It's not what you said. And listen to how they're talking to each other. The tone is so sharp. I feel like it would have been much more effective to have somebody use asymmetric behavior on the other person. Meaning I go, I understand you're upset. I'm just asking you questions to get to the bottom of an issue. Scott, what do you got? All right, I agree with Ronald and Kate. She get, we hear fading facts when she asked the sheriff to pay with cash happen. She says, no. And I see that period you're talking about as well, Greg. That for me was, okay, well, I think she, well, whether she knows she did or not, boy, it sure looks like she's being deceptive there. Then she moves back, she touches her mouth, she pulls her lip down, then she freezes. And so the lip down thing was pretty powerful for me because not only is she pushing, she's starting to pull that down. And I don't think she's realizing she's doing that. And then she's confident with the next no. And then she leans back and touches her mouth again. There's a whole lot of, but again, that's her baseline now. That's where she feels psychologically safe right there. Then she chaps and directs one more time and it doesn't work again. Mark, what do you got? I know, I've been, it's a- Okay, Chase, what do you got? This was hard to watch. It's very, it's, if you have empathy, this is hard to watch. And I expected to see composure here. Then one thing that you should be displaying in a courtroom, even if you're fighting a parking ticket is composure. And I don't think I need to break down any behaviors here for you. So let's focus on, let's just go through the one thought experiment here for this. Does she know the question being asked, yes or no? Okay, would a reasonable person understand this question? I think so. Would a reasonable person understand how to answer a simple question? Was there avoidance and a total lack of an answer here? That in itself should be extremely interesting to you. If you were able to just answer those simple questions from a reasonable person standard, it should be a pretty interesting response to this. If she understood it and absolutely avoided it. One of those tape replays. Dollars. I don't operate like that with my girlfriends. I don't operate like that with anyone. He caught the bill, I caught the bill. Whom am I? Did you ever pay him through cash app? No. You only ever paid him through cash? Well, yes. But we're talking about, I'm very confused. Never given Mr. Wade money through cash app. No. The only money you've ever given him outside of a contract is cash. I didn't give him money in a contract. So that was cute. But I didn't give him money outside in a contract. What happened? No, we're gonna answer it since you said it. He worked. He worked more hours than he was paid. And the county paid him for the work that he did. So don't be cute with me and then think that you're not gonna get an answer. And I will ask you about the contract in a minute. I asked you about cash. What happened? No, we're gonna answer it since you said it. He worked. He worked more hours than he was paid. And the county paid him for the work that he did. So don't be cute with me and then think that you're not gonna get an answer. And I will ask you about the contract in a minute. I asked you about cash. Did you ever pay him anything? And I'm trying to qualify my questions. I'm not talking about the contract with Fulton County that was paid. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about outside of that. Did you ever pay him anything other than cash? I'm only giving cash a few times in the course of what we're talking about. So if we would go to dinner. Let him finish his answer. If we would go to dinner, I wouldn't give him cash because he paid for dinner or I paid for dinner. I've given him cash only a few times in like probably four. Probably the most money I've ever handed him is $2,500. The least amount of money I've handed him probably between $500 and $1,000. You never wrote him a check? Ma'am, I don't have checks. Okay, so you have no proof of any reimbursement or any of these things because it was all cash, right? The testimony of one witness is enough to prove a fact. So my question was, do you have any proof? Or is that what you're intimating right here? I'm asking if you have any proof that you paid for money. I mean, the proof is what I just told you. You've no written proof. Is that correct? So I have some probably some transactions like in Belize. I probably spent $500 on my card in Belize. I spent 800, I can't remember 900 bucks on each of our tickets to go to Belize. I did the $700. I probably got some minor expenses in Aruba that would be on a card. But for the most part, for those trips, other than, so the two cruises, I gave him money for those before we ever left because they were pre-booked. Let me answer. Well, the question was if you had any written proof. And so- So I've answered you, that I've had written proof. We can move to the next question. If you've answered if you had any written proof, that was my question. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'm gonna be really short on this one. She does that authoritarian sit back again, that messaging of authority. Her lower teeth are exposed as she says four. Again, it's showing she's sped up with this person. There's recognition in her face, meaning in, well, the only person we can see in the DA's face when she thinks she's got the questionnaire when she asks her about checks. You see that smile, that smirk and go at her. But look at her hand. Look at her hands shake. See the adrenaline, the effects of adrenaline in her hand when she says, are you intimating I'm lying? This is a good example. We're seeing this person ramp up. We also see her get to be the most vague we have seen because now we're getting down to actual money and actual spending. And she can't remember how much it cost for the tickets to Belize, but she does remember how much they cost to go to Miami. We're getting to some differences in baseline and how she responds around situations. And this is where I would lean in more and start asking questions. When you're asking questions about, do you have written proof? Look, that's easy. Do you have written proof or not? She's telling you she's got these statements from these credit cards. Well, ask her other questions. You don't use checks. How else do you keep track of money that you pull out? Did you take money out of the bank? Look, if you're not, and she started it off early we were talking about money in the safe. If that money is in the safe and you got it from the bank, you must have gone to the bank and withdrawn it. Use some kind of a card and withdrawn it. I'd ask those questions. So I could start to paint a real picture, not to paint my numbers where you do one little piece at a time. When you get all this stuff together and you make a big broad picture you'll start to see something either truthful or come apart. Right now I think we're having a difficult time telling how much of her body language is related to fight and how much is related to flight. If she's afraid and she's trying to get away she's gonna show some of the same things as being angry. And we're seeing a lot of anger in this one. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I'm wondering if the word fungible is fully understood. I think she maybe thinks that fungible means non-taxable but I'm not sure. And I'm wondering if she knows that records are required to be kept for cash transactions especially for business stuff like that. And the interviewer says, did you ever pay him anything other than cash? I challenge you to find an answer to that question. I challenge you when this clip comes back up. She says I've only given him cash a few times. This is extreme avoidance and non-answer statements and there's no answer to the question. Her breathing rate here is through the roof. This is how often we breathe. She's also breathing into her chest which we breathe into our chest when we're stressed out. We breathe into our lower abdomen here when we're more relaxed. She's in a courtroom where apparently she spends a lot of time and should be reasonably comfortable. Maybe the seat and the context is changing some of that. But when the interviewer says, so you have no proof of any of these reimbursements, she says the testimony of one witness is enough to prove a fact and then goes into cruises, dinners, amounts paid for dinner. There's no answers here again, not an answer. And I'm wondering if this is maybe a tactic or maybe she believes that this is an answer. I don't think that's the case and I'm thinking maybe this is avoidance because we're seeing every stress behavior that we've seen to this point was about either money in the house or money paid to this other person. Keep in mind, none of us are experts on this case. We don't know about the case. We haven't spent hours researching the case. We haven't spent well over 20,000 hours researching human behavior, which is what we're looking at here. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so look, will reasonable people do unreasonable things? Yeah, they absolutely will. You can't just steal my reasonable lines. Oh, I haven't even finished. I haven't even finished. All right. I haven't even finished, yeah? So I'm gonna say the word reasonable again, yeah? So I'm gonna top your reasonable lines. Will reasonable people do unreasonable things? Yes, they will in unreasonable situations to them. So for me, looking at this situation, knowing what I do of politics, it isn't unreasonable that she is gonna be absolutely, she's gonna be put under so much pressure in this situation because as I understand it, she is standing in the way of the runaway of a presidential election. She's in the way and therefore she will get bulldozed and that just seems a fact from my, that seems very reasonable from my point of view. However, when she took the job that she all got elected to the job that she has, my guess is she didn't go through in her mind. I bet they'll come a day where I'm standing in the way of a presidential candidate and I should be ready for exactly what's gonna, in fact, I should watch out. You see this transaction that I'm just, I'm just about to give this person cash in a very reasonable way, perhaps. I mean, I don't know Chase, but perhaps I'm reasonable and because in my world you go, oh, hang on, hang on, no, no, no, this will, this will come back and bite me. I can't, I'm either gonna do this now knowing I'm gonna be caught in the end. It will come back and I'm prepared for that or I'm naive. I just didn't know this was gonna happen. So, looking at the behavior here, I just don't know where this stands. Is this somebody, somebody who got this position and then is crust in front of the media and in the way of an election and in a totally unreasonable situation for this person. And therefore we're gonna see very unreasonable behaviors in her place of work right now. Or is it somebody who has lied, who's done nefarious stuff and therefore that's why we're seeing unreasonable behaviors in her place of work. I just don't know because to your point, Chase, I don't know the case enough. I don't know any other details of like, here's when she signed up for this gig, she made a definite choice. She has been in conversations with the opposing side and she's an instrument to that. I just don't know where that sits. What I'm putting forward is the possibility that she's absolutely at sea right now has no idea what to do in this situation. Though this is her office, this is her place of work, she didn't expect the tables to be turned on her. And now some simple, justifiable cash. Somebody who just wanted a nice holiday in Belize is now being screwed to life by us. I mean, who'd have thought it? I assumed she didn't work that out from moment one and go, I'll need a receipt for that, by the way, this is legitimate. There, that's all I got on that one. Well, I'll say what I always say. The worst few days of my life was going to Sears School, knowing how it works. Right. I'll go ahead and go. Yeah, sorry, sorry, Scott. Sorry. I wanna go and let you guys sit there. We have Scott Rouse in the room. We've got your ventriloquist and we were talking for you. Not to give him a go. I know it's all because I talked first, so it's always, so everybody gets the impression I've already gone, so. Yeah. I totally get it. Anyway, so her blink rate completely drops here and she leans back, which is now, I keep saying over and over, that's her baseline. That's where she's finding that psychological comfort, while at the same time doing that to whoever she's talking to. Then she touches her mouth and she thinks again. She's trying to figure out what to say and then she starts that chaff and redirect again. This is, I don't think we've seen this much chaff and redirect. I mean, this is like nine shows full of it. I mean, in this one little show, there's enough from nine different shows to squish into this one. But when she's asked about writing the check, we can tell that catches her off guard because she freezes and then she has that really quick blink right there and you can see as her eyes get a little bit larger because it's a surprise for her. And this lets us know that there's an issue there for her. And then back to her baseline for psychological comfort with all that. And then she rests her head on her hand and this is adapting writ large, especially in this situation. Then she starts another chaff and redirect about the testimony of one witness and we hear fading facts and she's being very careful about what she's saying because she knows this is important. She has to word this properly because like you're talking about Mark, she had North the idea. She probably doesn't know how important it is that you have to, if we get cash for something, shoot, man, we gotta report it. I don't trust anybody to hear some cash instead do because I'm under the impression they're gonna write it off. So I'm gonna put it on mine where it gets them in trouble or not. I don't know, I don't care but I'm always putting mine on there. So, and then we see concern where she starts answering how she paid for things. So she's really concerned about this. I think it's gotten away from her body language. We all try to pay attention to our own body languages we're doing whatever we're doing, especially in a situation where we're talking to a group of people and going back to the empathetic thing, Chase, I agree with you, I felt so bad for her during this because I think she's like riding a horse and doesn't know how to ride a horse. I think it's out of control and she can't get a handle on it. She can't get to slow down or anything. I think it's running away with her. So, and then we can see relief as she quietens down when the attorney decides to, you know, okay, let's move on to the next question. So I think that's where she gets a little relief there because there's a lot behind that that is riding on that, the answer she just gave or tried to, there was no answer there. I mean, that she's trying to give. So, yeah, I think there's a lot in there, a lot in this. Yeah, just cause you're a prosecutor doesn't mean you know how to behave when you're being called on the stand. Yeah. What was that? One of those tape replays. Right. What happened? The reason she said it. He worked, he worked more hours than he was paid and the county paid him for the work that he did. So don't be cute with me and then think that you're not gonna get an answer. And I will ask you about the contract in a minute. I asked you about cash. Did you ever pay him anything? And I'm trying to qualify my questions. I'm not talking about the contract with Fulton County that was paid. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about outside of that. Did you ever pay him anything other than cash? I've only given him cash a few times in the course of what we're talking about. So you've never paid him cash? If we would go to dinner. Let him finish her answer. If we would go to dinner, I wouldn't give him cash cause he paid for dinner or I paid for dinner. I've given him cash only a few times in life, probably four. Right. Probably the most money I've ever handed him is $2,500. The least amount of money I've handed him, probably between $500 and $1,000. You never wrote him a check? Ma'am, I don't have checks. Okay. So you have no proof of any reimbursement for any of these things because it was all cash, right? The testimony of one witness is enough to prove a fact. So my question was, are you telling me that I'm lying to you? Or is that what you're intimating right here? I'm asking if you have any proof that you paid him any money. I mean, the proof is what I just told you. You've no written proof. Is that correct? So I have some, probably some transactions like embolises. I probably spent $500 on my card in Belize. I spent 800, I can't remember, 900 bucks on each of our tickets to go to Belize. I did the $700. I probably got some minor expenses in Aruba that would be on a card. But for the most part, for those trips, other than, so the two cruises, I gave him money for those before we ever left because they were pre-booked. Let me answer. Well, the question was if you have any written proof. And so. I answered you that I've had written proof. We can move to the next question. If you've answered if you had any written proof and that was my question. The question, let's keep going. When you took office, you had a tax lien of $4,600. Did you pay that with cash when you made that tax lien hole? I probably paid through, however you paid. Okay, so but you were saying that you had amounts of cash. You still had that lien in 2022 when you were taking away and going on these trips. So the cash that you gave him that could have been used to pay this tax lien off? You won't tell me how to pay my bills? I have an objection. This is not relevant as it relates to why we're here today. Submission, if you are you trying to establish that she was insolvent in some way? I definitely was trying to establish that she did not have these mass amounts of cash that she's talking about, yes. All right. Ask, re-ask the question. Okay. Chase, what do you got? So let's talk about breathing rate really quick. What I want you to do when this clip comes back on your screen, I want you to watch her chest rising and falling as she's breathing. And I want you to try to match her breathing rate and see how you feel. Match her breathing rate, breathe with her and see how you feel. If you match her breathing rate, make sure you're clear on the subject being discussed and then see how you feel about something that should be honest and very simple. It should be honest and very simple. And then you'll see and feel all that you need to. So breathing rate is a super reliable sign of stress because it's all about how our body's automatic, autonomic nervous system kicks into gear with fight or flight. So when we're stressed, our body pumps up the breathing rate to get ready for action and it kind of taps into those deep rooted survival instincts. So even though today's stressors are more about deadlines than saber-toothed tigers, our bodies still kind of react in the same way. So this behavior here is unusual. Like if you told me that to watch this video and then told me that this was a district attorney, I wouldn't believe it to that point. So it's just strange. There's a lot of stress. And maybe she's outside of her comfort zone, but I don't know what's causing this much stress could be deception. Greg? Yeah, this is a really good one because we see something entirely different. Remember I said there's messaging of authority pushed back, putting your hand to your mouth as you think. Chin up, chin's not up. Browl, see that grief muscle? That grief muscle we associate with sorrow, grief or something very negative. And it's pronounced in her forehead now. Her face is not lighted up. She's not angry. Suddenly the demeanor is different. I don't know, because I didn't pull these videos. I don't know how far into this it is. But what I can tell you is by watching her here, there's a massive baseline change. And she loses the ability to answer a question in that angry, pushy, aggressive back direction she did. When she's asked, how did you pay? And you can see her face has got that kind of rigid, stony look that she says, however, it's paid. She's not lost verbal fluency. She's lost the ability to respond intelligently. That's a dumbest answer I heard in this entire thing. So it makes me feel really uncomfortable that when we're talking about these masses of cash she had, now I'm sure whether it's just because she's been called on the carpet for having a tax lien or whether it's that now there's not a rational answer for you having a whole bunch of cash. Now we've got a different answer than anything we've seen in the rest of these videos. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I mean, she's in a pretty hard place there because I mean, a good answer to that would be, tax systems are complex. There's many complex ways that you can end up paying your tax at the end of the year, depending on the complexity there. But now you've got yourself in the optic of looking like you have complex tax situations, which again, is gonna cause people to go, well, what are you doing nefarious? Anything to do with cash and taxation easily creates an image, a picture there of you must be doing something underhand, which is possible. And at the same time, it's not possible, you know? We don't know. Well, you know, I certainly don't know anyway. But what I do know is there is a great postural bump there she thrusts out her chest to say, you're gonna tell me how to pay my bills, which is a nice line. And we get a sense of that person in more control around that. We get a sense there, I think, Chase of that district attorney. You know, there's a moment of it. You know, that was the confident person that we're looking for with that quick one liner and then leaves the situation, but she can't leave. She's still there being questioned. Terrible place for her to be with the authority that she should have, essentially being questioned in a good enough way that she's delivering enough uncertainty that, you know, certainly in public opinion could cause, you know, her face to look bad. And certainly I don't know what other elements they're going to put together with this because it feels like here, like she's the only thing that this hangs on. It kind of feels like, you know, she's the only thing, but my guess would be is there's other elements as well. This is the first thing you can bring. And if this doesn't quite work, then maybe there's some others along the line. And it's very easy to in that position to go, this is all about me, rather than going, oh, I'm just a small part of a bigger picture here. And maybe I shouldn't be feeling the pressure that I'm feeling. Anyway, to everybody's point, it's difficult not to feel some empathy for this person stuck in a, you know, the great key is where she's sitting right now, never sit there. Whatever you can do not to be in that seat, not to be in that seat. I've said that time and time again, whatever you can do not to be there, don't be there because there's nothing beneficial about it in many, many cases. Scott, what do you got on this one? You all have covered everything I was going to talk about, so we'll move on. One of those tape replays. Let's keep going. When you took office, you had a tax lien of $4,600. Did you pay that with cash when you made that tax lien hole? I probably paid through, however you pay. Okay, so, but you were saying that you had amounts of cash. You still had that lien in 2022 when you were leaving Wade and going on these trips. So, the cash that you gave him that could have been used to pay this tax lien off? You gonna tell me how to pay my bills? I'm gonna object, this is not relevant as it relates to why we're here today. Submission, if you are you trying to establish that she was insolvent in some way? I definitely was trying to establish that she did not have these mass amounts of cash that she's talking about, yes. All right, re-ask the question. Just one more thing. We've analyzed all the key elements of this situation and now we're gonna tell you exactly what we think in our wrap up. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I think there's potentially two people here. Whatever the weather, we're certainly seeing some behaviors that don't look good in this situation. Now, why is this? Either because in my view, we have a reasonable public servant here who has found themselves in an utterly unreasonable situation which is having their life torn apart in front of the cameras. And this was never anything that she signed up for. And so the stress and pressure of that is gonna produce a whole bunch of off the chart behaviors. Could be that. Or it's a partisan prosecutor, somebody who has picked some kind of team who was naive to the cut and thrust that was inevitably gonna happen around this. And so that naivety means they're just not prepared for this onslaught of their life being ripped apart. I don't know which one it is, but it's probably one or the other or something in between. Chase Hughes, what do you got? Yeah, I agree. And I think it's fascinating to see that no matter how polished or professional, someone is supposed to be like a district attorney. All of our primal instincts and non-verbal cues can still start peeking through. And I think it's a reminder that we're all human and we're all battling the same kind of internal alarms that go off when we're back into a corner. It's the same. And I think it hits home this point that being genuine and transparent is so key in a world that is literally, I think, just starving for authenticity. But it's not just about like calling out deception. I think it's about recognizing our own vulnerabilities and working towards like being a little more empathetic and seeing maybe there's some deception here, but I'm able to see that there's a person who's a human being at the same time. And that's where you become better at being a profiler and using these skills, Craig. Let's talk for a minute about culture and about what could be going on. Number one is people in different cultures behave differently. And it depends on how you tell a story. I think you might find that in African-American culture, there's a little bit more detail to a story than you might get from Mark or, well, maybe not Mark, but maybe Chase, a little bit tidier, little concise thing that Chase may do may not be part of that culture. So I'm gonna give that the benefit of a doubt when we talk about chapter redirect number one. Number two, there's a hell of a lot of anger and there's a lot of anger about the situation and the organism does what may do the organism successful. If she's always been treated a certain way because of the situation she's in and she expects that treatment and is not getting it, that's gonna generate anger. And anger is fight or flight. In the same way, flight is fight or flight. We're gonna try to get away or we're gonna go back at them. We always say when a person's indignant, it's a good sign. So just because a person believes something doesn't make it true and just because you believe it's not true doesn't make it not true. So all the time when we're looking at people, we're looking at signs and behaviors. We can only go that far. The three things for me that make me want to know more in this case were in the second video when she was very hedged and doing a lot of things that we associate with deceptiveness around the beginning of the relationship. The second one was around proof in writing of paying back. Those were good indicators that something is hot in both of those places. And then finally when it got down to how did you pay with cash when you couldn't pay your lien on your property? We saw an entirely different demeanor. So those three areas make me wanna really focus and go back and ask hard questions, very concise questions. And my approach would be to say, Ms. District Attorney, happy to listen as long as you wanna talk. I wouldn't interrupt. I'd let her talk, let her tell you. However, she goes about giving you information because people bleed information when they're talking. That's the only way we're gonna get to the bottom of this, not by each of them cutting each other off. It probably needs a little more digging. We'll see how it turns out. Scott, what do you got? For all the things we've seen and a lot of the videos that we've done, I think this is probably my favorite for a collection of someone where we can spot what makes them comfortable and we can spot the things that are gonna make them not fly off the handle, but get their anger up, get their engage their limbic system because almost every question did that in this situation. I think it's a great study and all of the adapters and all of the, someone trying to take control of a situation and make themselves comfortable because they're at such a high stress level. I think it's a great study to see how that's done and see how at least one person does that. And at the same time, I think it's a great study into four attorneys to talk to their clients and say, don't ever do this, don't ever do this, don't ever do this. And there's just a list of things to go down of how not to act, how not to respond, what not to say and not to go down these little roads that have nothing to do with the answer to the question. So I think it's a great study in that. If you pay attention from the first video to the last video, you'll see great examples of all those things. So I really, as much as I hated seeing this and I feel so bad for her at the same time, I liked it because we can learn a lot from this situation as farable as it is. All right, fellas, think this is another good one and we'll see you next time. So what do you got? What do you got? What do you got? What do you got?