 Good morning and welcome to the work session non-power and advanced reactors merging of two worlds My name is Robert Taylor and I'm the deputy office director for the NRC office of nuclear reactor regulation I will be the chair of the session today We will be focusing on the relationship between non-power and advanced reactors How insights from designing, licensing, constructing and operating non-power facilities are informing the development of advanced reactors And how the technology development and licensing approaches for advanced reactors are influencing non-power facilities This morning, we will begin with a brief introduction into non-power and advanced reactor and Advanced reactors before we dive into the discussions with our speakers. We will then begin our Q&A period Please feel free to submit questions at any time during the session and we will address them during the Q&A period Your questions can be directed to a specific speaker or to all speakers Next slide please For our panel today, we welcome representatives with diverse perspectives on both non-power and advanced reactors from industry Universities and federal government organizations First we have Allison Haugh. Ms. Haugh has been the Department of Energy's office of nuclear energy Has been with the Department of Energy's office of nuclear energy since 2011 She has managed several programs including the advanced methods for manufacturing and the Nuclear Science User Facilities within the Nuclear Energy Enabling Technologies Program and most recently the Lightwater Reactor Sustainability Program Currently she's the acting director for the Nuclear Reactor and Deployment Which is focused on modernizing technologies and approaches applicable to both advanced reactors and lightwater reactors And supporting the deployment of a variety of advanced reactor designs She holds a bachelor's degree in Nuclear Engineering from Pennsylvania State University and a master's degree in Environmental Engineering from John Hopkins University We will also hear from Dr. Rusty Tau. Dr. Tau is the founding director for Appalachian University's premier research project called NEXT Nuclear Energy Experimental Testing Rusty has a BS degree in Engineering Physics from ACU and a PhD in Nuclear Physics from the University of Texas He served in the US Navy where he goes to the rank of Lieutenant while serving as an instructor at the Naval Nuclear Power School Rusty completed a postdoctoral research fellowship with Los Alamos National Laboratory working on the Phoenix experiment at the Brookhaven National Lab and In 2001 he joined the physics faculty at the UCU For the past 20 years Rusty has worked at many different national labs on several information research projects His 250 articles and other leaks and other scholarly writings have been cited more than 30,000 times by Curie's new publications Next we will hear from Margaret Ellison Ms. Ellison has 17 years of experience in Nuclear Industry and is currently a senior engineer of Kyla's power on the licensing team She is responsible for licensing activities related to structural graphite materials Material control and accounting, physical security, structural design and instrumentation and control Including the Associated content and the preliminary safety analysis report that Hermes non-power reactor Before joining Kyra's power Margaret had worked for 15 years at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in rulemaking vulnerability analysis Public risk assessment and material science research Margaret earned a master's of science degree from the University of California at Berkeley in material science engineering Finally, we have Brad Toehl Ashley Pinnon was originally our end-met speaker, but she had some trouble to come up So we're excited to welcome Brad to the discussion Brad Toehl is Chief Operating Officer at the National Reactor Innovation Center at the Idaho National Laboratory Managing the day-to-day operations of the center Brad is applying a mean start-up approach to mine with advanced reactor, advanced engineering processes and lessons learned from experience Managing large energy demonstrations to accelerate the demonstration and deployment of advanced equipment energy Brad has a rich history of deploying advanced technologies Prior to end-met Brad surges interim CEO and vice president of operations for albedas systems and chief engineer and general manager of advanced technology for GE oil and gas Prior to GE Brad surges Chief Operating Officer at the National Energy Technology Laboratory implementing science and technology programs across the energy industry He has a BS degree in petroleum and natural gas energy engineering from the Pennsylvania State University and an MBA for George Mason We're very excited to hear the presentation this morning. Next slide please So what are we talking about when we say non-power and advanced reactors? There are many different types of facilities What are the differences? How do we know which type we are referring to? Most people understand that what a nuclear power plant is but with smaller designs there are many terms and they tend to overlap So next slide please The NRC has successfully licensed and the nuclear industry has safely operated both non-power research and test reactors and large water reactors These technologies are the current bookends to a potential spectrum of new and advanced power and non-power reactors The design is now being contemplated for deployment in the United States varying power level cooling technology fuel design safety features and operation facilities from what has been previously licensed and operated This will require a new and different thinking for how to demonstrate and assess safety We aren't starting totally from a blind shoot given our prior experiences But we do need to be thoughtful to ensure we don't inappropriately bias our thinking about these new technologies Our prior experiences that may not be applicable To help us ensure that we are starting from a common point for today's presentation I'll give you a brief introduction to a few types of facilities that we might hear about today Full definitions of these terms can be found in the Nuclear Energy Innovation and Modernization Act and Title X of the Coto Federal Rights Act Advanced reactors refer to nuclear fission or fusion reactors with significant improvements compared to commercial nuclear reactors These improvements can include additional inherent safety features greater fuel utilization and enhanced reliability among others A research reactor is a non-power production or utilization facility, which is I will define in a moment It is specifically licensed under 10 CFR part 50.21, which is a specific type of license for research and development The testing facility is a nuclear reactor which has a thermal power level more than 10 megawatts or for certain configurations a thermal power more than one megawatt A production facility is a facility designed and used primarily for the formation of plutonium or uranium 233 or the processing of irradiated materials containing special nuclear material A utilization facility is almost the opposite of the production facility They are facilities other than those designed for use primarily for the formation of plutonium or uranium 233 And a non-power production or utilization facility is a broad term It remains a production or utilization facility that is not a nuclear power reactor or production facility as I have done as I defined earlier Now that we have a bit of background on the topics to be discussed today I'll turn it over to Allison Hawn to discuss the Department of Energy's role in non-power and advanced reactors Allison Thanks, Rob. And good morning everyone. Good day and and likely good evening. I'm Allison Do we have slides up? Here we go Can you go to the next slide please? Okay, so we've known nuclear power to operate in a um baseload capacity for decades now, but we see that changing and quickly we need these reactors to operate flexibly with variable renewable energy sources to Provide a more reliable grid to provide heat and electricity to decarbonize industry The department support of the advanced reactors through the advanced SMR program and our advanced reactor demonstration program Is intended to provide the necessary support to vendors to successfully deploy their concepts and and really motivate investment for future deployments So we're supporting these designs through the marketplace Through dedicated r&d programs and competitively selected awards, uh, such as these on the slide here So there are three first of a kind demonstrations here. I'm going to go kind of counterclockwise here So starting in the upper left the carbon-free power project is planning to construct the first new scale commercial demonstration plant in Idaho Moving down to the bottom left. We have the nature and reactor a sodium cooled gas reactor planning to be cited at a former coal site in wyoming And then on the bottom right there We've got x energy planning to site their high temperature gas reactor at a site in washington And these three designs will be fully commercial designs and licensed by the nrc And then if you continue on and make your way back to the top there in the upper right We've got five private public partnerships with lower maturity designs Both the molten chloride fast reactor project and the kairos fhr will Result in smaller scale test reactors to help inform their commercial designs McCree will be authorized will be dre authorized to test their design at Idaho national lab And I know that margaret will speak to it but kairos will obtain an nrc license for a site by oakridge national lab and then holtex smr 160 is the only light water reactor smr In this list here and we'll focus on early stage design engineering and licensing activities And then the last two we have are both micro reactors Westinghouse's event she will mature a heat pipe cooled micro reactor and bwxt banner reactor Will mature a commercially viable transportable micro reactor design So these and other advanced reactor designs will help to address Hard to decarbonize sectors like transportation, steel, cement Chemical production and help us meet our clean energy goals of 100 percent clean energy sector by 2035 and a net zero economy by 2050 So I mentioned the advanced reactor demonstration program or or um air dp and the seven projects But the air dp program really goes beyond just those private public partnerships These designs and and all designs require support throughout their life cycle, which takes us into the national reactor innovation center here nrc Again is also part of air dp. It's a relatively new program authorized by the nuclear energy innovation capabilities act of 2017 And was really formally established in 2019 So their mission is to enable and accelerate the development and demonstration of advanced reactors And it's a national program national DOE program, which is led by the idoa national laboratory And allows collaborators to harness the world-class capabilities of our national laboratory system nrc supports advanced reactor developers by providing access to infrastructure materials and expertise They are they um, they also support other activities such as helping to reduce the regulatory risks for advanced reactors Reducing the cost for advanced reactor construction and filling experimental gaps that are vital to advanced reactor development and deployment Next slide, please So nrc is working to establish demonstration test beds that will provide the infrastructure Where industry or or other users can start up tests and operate their concepts in a safe and economical manner to obtain the Data that they need to support their design activities and future licensing applications So the first one we have here the demonstration and operation of microreactor experiments or dome Uh test bed will be capable of citing experiments that utilize DOE safeguards category four materials such as high SALEU And operate uh at least at at less than 10 megawatts thermal So nrc is working to Reestablish the reactor demonstration test bed capabilities of the experimental breeder reactor two facility At the materials and fuels complex at inl to support the um, this dome mission The ebr2 facility provides a unique opportunity for nrc to leverage an existing facility That is co-located with existing support capabilities at mfc We expect construction of dome to be completed in in our fiscal year 2023 and to enable operations in fiscal year 24 And so nrc is also developing a second test bed capable of citing experiments that utilize safeguards category one materials such as A high enriched uranium or plutonium and operate at 500 kilowatts thermal or less Some of the advanced reactor concepts being developed have never been built or operated before First of a kind nuclear technology developers need a location for testing validating and maturing new reactor technologies or concepts And for validating the safety and workability of systems or components Individually or as part of the overall reactor system And although not required for the commercial concept some reactor demonstrations and experiments require that higher enrichment fuel to keep the size of the reactor small While ensuring that neutronics and thermal hydraulics are representative of their commercial designs So this safeguards category one test bed would support the safe and economical testing and demonstration of those first of a kind reactor concepts We are currently in the process of evaluating all options for this capability Next slide So another capability under development is the microreactor applications research validation and evaluation or marvel for short We'll serve as a unique small scale 20 kilowatt electric nuclear test platforms supporting experimental validation activities for operating regimes And really empower end-use applications applicable to the broader microreactor community The difference between marvel and those two enric test slides is that iml will produce and construct an operational microreactor That will produce heat and power to a functional microgrid The development of the microreactor will result in lessons learned for commercial developers But we'll also create momentum champion rapid technology maturation and engage microreactor and user companies Directly technology developers will be able to test new microreactor technologies And we'll be able to evaluate systems for remote monitoring and develop autonomous control technologies Next slide So this is my last slide for today But equally as important as all the other ones Even with the first of a kind deployments and demonstrations across the industry The need for a versatile test reactor is still important We're on the precipice of building a number of advanced reactors But that doesn't necessarily mean they are as optimized as they could be VTR will allow us to test and validate better optimized fuels and materials to continue advancing These designs and continue increasing their economic competitiveness I want to draw parallels to the role that the advanced test reactor Out at inl has played for the past 50 years It has provided accelerated fuels and materials irradiation that has supported the existing commercial fleet and the us naval reactors It is this kind of testing that has supported the commercial nuclear industry and resulted in their improving fleet-wide performance from 60 Availability range in the early 80s to a fleet-wide performance of over 90 percent today What is missing now is the ability to support long-term innovation through the ability to conduct accelerated Neutron damage testing and a high flux fast spectrum Neutron test reactor will allow us to conduct those those tests Next slide, please Allison, thank you so much. Um I wanted to ask you a quick question here before we move on to the next speaker that presentation was phenomenal, but Given the environment that we're in how does DOE remain flexible with so many different technologies and vendors on the horizon? Right and and so many of these designs are available because of historical DOE investments We've provided about 400 million dollars in triso and graphite investments And it's no surprise that many of the vendors are using it just looking at the only the ardp winners There's four reactors using triso fuel So DOE has a history of supporting technologies that support multiple concepts We work very hard to prioritize projects to ensure we are Staying relevant with multiple designs Of course, we can't support everyone through our directed r&d programs But that's why we utilize our gain program the gateway for accelerated innovation and nuclear program And and a number of other industry support groups to help us get the pulse of industry and prioritize the work that we're doing Wonderful, thank you for that Allison. Now. I'd like to turn it to russi from acu to talk about their Hey, good morning. It's great to be with you. Thank you for your time and for the ability to be on this panel It's an exciting panel where we're we're trying to talk about how nonpower and advanced reactors merged together And I think that what we're doing at outland christian university is a great example of that This is a a melding of a university research reactor And but not a traditional trigger. And so we're we're looking at advanced reactors We're very thankful for natura resources being a sponsor for this research And i'm very thankful for the chance to talk to you about it next slide, please So next stands for for nuclear energy experimental testing That's what we stood up here at outland christian university with the idea that This is a great way of bringing hands-on experience to a large number of students And we're really focused on finding global solutions to the world's critical needs next slide, please And I'm sure this audience is aware of that But it's always in my opinion worthy to remember what the the goal is because the goal of This deployed technology is extremely lofty We'd really like to develop an energy source that's that's clean and safe and and really would would change the standard living of people billions of people around the globe And and by building advanced reactors and having access to a to new medical isotopes We really have a chance to to look at new treatments for cancer that we've never been discussed before So the the access to medical isotopes again is something that will affect billions of people And finally if we can have a a safe source of high-process heat then we can do a lot of things Including desalinate water or purify water, which is a need again around the world So the the way we think about this project and and working towards a deployment that will bless the world sometime Is really a driving force on this and next slide, please So the image on the right is our mold salt test loop that's been in operation for over three years on our campus But this is a great image to just remind people that the mission of our next lab is to provide global solutions The world's needs for energy water medical isotopes by advancing technology of molten salt reactors while educating future leaders and nuclear It's an engineering next slide, please So the two sort of focus areas of our research We really wanted to do research that's apical to a lot of different designs the first key Requirement we looked at is molten salt as a coolant a molten salt has a lot of advantages of the coolant It allows us to read high process temperatures while keeping the safety very The safety concerns very low because we never have the phases transition to a steam So by using eutectic mixture over the right salts, we can have a low melting point while still having No chance flash to steam the next slide, please And the second key requirement that we really are focusing on is that we want to use liquid fuel in our reactor So old solid fuel technology, of course ends ends up with throwing away a lot of useful Uranium and so what we really want to do is we want to increase fuel utilization. We want to decrease waste Simultaneously get access to those medical isotopes and then take advantage of a design that they can't melt down So those are our two key requirements that we're really looking at next slide, please So we're not doing this alone at acu We built a research alliance that we refer to as nextra our next research alliance And and we're really thankful for our partners the university of texas texas a and m george institute technology Have all joined with abalone christian university to work towards this goal All four universities are being sponsored by nature resources next slide, please We meet together regularly with workshops as we're working to develop our design and then develop our licensing work Here's a workshop from last fall And where we have all four universities together and and despite what happened last year in march madness We worked very well together in this organization Next slide, please On the asu campus We have a wide variety of research projects And I show this partly here just to allow you to understand what our students get their hands on In the left hand column is a lot of our salt systems at top is our mold salt test loop We've been operational for over three years We're in the final commissioning stages of our fluoride mold salt test loop which would be a high temperature system We're designing the end stages of designing a order magnitude larger system We refer to as the mold salt system that shall allow us to both purify the salt And also work with larger quantities of salt and incorporate elements of design from our reactor including heat exchangers and other components That the second column is really a lot of chemist work and and a lot of people refer to mold salt reactors as chemist reactors And so how do you remove impurities? How do you purify the salt? How do you know what the salt content is as it's changing? And so we have projects stood up to to work on all of those things The third column is a support that's expand that expands across a lot of our systems instrumentation development a data acquisition systems and Filtering of salt and the final column is individual component testing in the bottom right images our mold salt research reactor Which is really the reactor that we're working to build and we're in the process of pre licensing engagement with the nrc to talk about now Everything on here with a star has some patented work or patent pending work on it And so we're really trying to collect the intellectual property So that we can Develop this and deploy this commercially next slide, please We're building our reactor design. We're leveraging heavily off of the molten salt reactor experiment This was the reactor that was built and operated Oak Ridge national lab in 1960s who operated for four years What we've done is we tried to scale down from that and so as we think about the reactor We're building we're building a reactor that's easier to design than easier to design build and get licensed hopefully Then the 1960s of course in 60s didn't have to go through the nrc But we're working on a design that uses low enriched fuel That has a lower power density and doesn't have the main safety concern of this water and salt mixing And so we're not having any water in our our reactor enclosure next slide, please We are though however modeling a lot of our work off of the msre So our design is in the top our little conceptual cartoon a reactor enclosure in the center fuel handling on the left Secondary heat removal on the right that mimics of a lot what was done by the molten salt reactor experiment in the 60s Next slide, please So just a rob touched on this at the beginning What is a university research reactor and how is it different than test reactors or other power producing reactors that we will hear about in this session also acu plans to pursue this a 104c designation of being a research reactor and I guess for a second time I'll skip one to next slide We are working here at avalanche university to build a building to house this reactor using the the The 10 cfr 50 dot 10 exemption allows us to build a reactor in a pre-existing building. We actually Designed last year. We have just broken ground this year on the facility that we're referring to as our science engineering research center This is a multi-use facility that has some unique capabilities that will be ideal for citing a university research reactor I'll expect a completion day is the middle of year next year in 2023 and next slide, please This is uh, this image is a much more interesting image in my opinion of the building On the left you see some specialized labs that support the reactor and the reactor design and work But the really exciting part is the the high bay Research bay on the right. It's a A very large room with a 40 ton crane over top But this main feature is the trench on the bottom if you go to next slide You'll should hold show us some dimensions the trench is 25 feet deep 15 feet wide and 80 feet long in this 6,000 square foot room and so that uh, that uh Trench in the middle of this high bay research area is an ideal place to drop in a research reactor Put a concrete shielding on the top and you have a safe place to rapidly deploy and test A a research reactor an advanced reactor at a university Next slide, please And so I can't stop without thanking how the support we have we've been supported from excelsior foundation department of energy through gain grants and any up grants development corporation of abalone is sponsored our work And of course our primary sponsors ensure resources. Thank you for your time. Appreciate. I'm glad to take questions Thanks rusty that really appreciate that that thorough assessment of what acu is doing. I think research Is an essential piece of developing and deploying the next generation of reactors So how what do you see are the most critical attributes of university research that can facilitate? Uh the and expand the development and deployment of these new technologies But as was mentioned In the last talk Molten saw reactors are a little lower technical readiness level than some of the other technologies that have been deployed multiple times I mean we have this great example of the msre in the 60s at oak ridge, but But there are lots of areas where we really need to advance the technical readiness level So everything from flanges to pumps sills valves flow meters All those really need to be advanced. Um, and so that we can completely instrument a new reactor And do maintenance on and so every one of those areas is an area where there needs to be some research And and that's a great place for a university step in and helpful And so as I pointed out on that one slide There's a lot of areas where we're developing the technology and and we're as we solve those problems that It gives us an ability to collect that intellectual property and and and give a return to the industry that's investing in this advanced reactor Thank you us and really appreciate that response I think we'll certainly get some questions for you as we go forward here So next I want to turn it to to margaret ellison to present on non-power and advanced reactor plans for kairos Thanks, rub All right, I see the slides there Hello, my name is margaret ellison. I'm a senior licensing engineer with kairos power I'm grateful to have the opportunity to speak about kairos's recent work on a non-power reactor construction permit application As well as our advanced reactor development next slide, please kairos powers a mission-centered organization Our mission is to enable the world's transition to clean energy with the ultimate goal of dramatically improving people's quality of life While protecting the environment I was recently speaking with a friend about this slide and they called it the slide with all the lights And actually the reason that this image is so powerful is that it's a reminder of how much of the globe is still dark We as a part of the global community have important work to do to bring affordable safe and clean energy to the market Next slide, please I'll start with an introduction to kairos power kp is focused on commercialization of the kairos power fluoride salt cooled high temperature reactor or kp fhr Just this past december we celebrated our fifth anniversary and our staffing levels continually growing We're now above 250 employees a significant portion of which is engineering staff In addition kp has in place strong collaboration agreements with several national laboratories kp's focus is on engineering design Licensing and physical demonstration and that last element is a key cornerstone of kp's development strategy We'll speak to that strategy a little bit more in the next slide kairos's goal is for commercialization demonstration of a full kp fhr on or before 2030 While building the infrastructure for rapid deployment during the 2030s kp has also set cost targets for the kp fhr to be competitive with natural gas in the us market And this would accomplish our mission to deploy affordable energy that is both clean and safe Next slide, please This slide illustrates kp's development strategy and shows how kp uses a non-power reactor as a bridge to advanced reactor deployment Traditional nuclear focuses on the design phase of deployment of development And kairos is changing that paradigm by using rapid iteration with hardware including deployment of a non-power reactor This is the merging of the two worlds. That's the subject of this panel Folks at kairos like to say hardware is worth a thousand calculations and to that end kairos's development strategy is based on hardware iteration So that learning can be rapidly incorporated into design Iteration is fastest in a non-nuclear environment. So kp's iterative loops include both nuclear and non-nuclear capabilities Several of these iterative loops are shown on this slide. So starting on the far left You'll see the engineering test unit demonstration experiment, which we call etude It's a non-nuclear rig that uses simulated fluids to inform modeling capabilities It's already been producing results for several years Next is the engineering test unit, which we call etu This is also a non-nuclear unit. It'll have graphite pebbles in flybe Which is kp's molten salt coolant Construction is nearly complete of that unit in albuquerque, new mexico and lessons learned from that etu will be fed into the final design of hermes Hermes is the next Loop on this slide and you'll see in the middle of the image It is a non-power reactor. That's a scaled version of a power reactor and i'll talk more about the details of hermes on the next slide The next thing you'll see in the image is u-facility, which is also a non-nuclear, but this time full-scale unit That will allow kp to incorporate learning about operations and maintenance before deployment of the full power kpfh r Can I have the next slide, please? Okay, now a little bit more about the hermes reactor Hermes is a non-nuclear power reactor At approximately 30 scale to the full power reactor, it will use haylou pebbles online refueling and flybe molten salt coolant It will prove kairos's capability to deliver a kpfh r at cost targets Now the nuclear industry is very familiar with converting nuclear heat to electrical power And that's why kairos's objective is to make sure that kairos's nuclear power reactor is at the full power reactor Now the nuclear industry is very familiar with converting nuclear heat to electrical power And that's why kairos's objective for hermes is to demonstrate low-cost nuclear heat rather than electrical generation By learning through the hermes experience kairos will be able to incorporate lessons about manufacturing materials construction and more on real hardware in ways that simulations can't support Hermes also allows kairos to exercise the supply chain for resources that we will need for the kpfh r And it finally provides a complete demonstration of nuclear functions to inform operations decision-making going forward Ultimately the hermes iteration step allows kairos to reduce design supply chain and regulatory risk While building vertical integration knowledge and capabilities Can I have the next line, please? kairos powers using the part 50 license application process for hermes and expects to do the same for the first kpfh r This is sometimes referred to as the two-step application process kp submitted the hermes construction permit application to the nrc last fall and it's under review by the nrc It may not be intuitive that going through the process of licensing a test reactor would reduce regulatory risk for a power reactor What hermes allows kairos to do is to identify challenges to the licensing process early Things like knowledge gaps or level of detail So the construction permit itself is another form of rapid iteration on the path to advanced reactor deployment It also affords kairos the additional opportunities for strong pre application engagement with nrc staff This is another example of how iterative development strategy used by kairos power along with demonstration through non power reactor Uh units puts kairos power on a path to accomplish our mission to enable the world's transition to affordable safe and clean energy And rob that's the end of my prepared remarks Thank you margarita. You touched on what I wanted to ask you about here in the presentation So i'm gonna ask you maybe just to elaborate a little bit It's been a while since the last application for a research and test reactor license was submitted to the nrc What specifically is driving the interest in rtrs now for advanced reactor developers? Yeah, yeah, it has been a while So in recent decades the landscape for reactor development has shifted Um, there's a renewed support for using all the different tools available to mitigate the effects of climate change And data shows that nuclear power is a key component of our clean energy future so There's a variety of different technologies that are being developed right now micro reactors space reactors advanced reactors all sorts of things So a non power reactor application can be a useful development tool for both the developer and the nrc staff For new technologies. It also happens to fit well into the rapid iteration strategy that kairos is using Thank you so much for that. That really helps Elaborate and understand the thinking that you're you're important as you can press on your rtr application and eventually the local kairos Reactor design will come to you so For our last formal presentation. I'd like to turn to brad telmer who will discuss the ongoing work at the national reactor innovation center Thanks, rob. Hello everyone. Thank you for having me today. It's an honor to be here Ashley finding as our director. She was supposed to speak today. She sends her regrets She had a conflict to come up and she couldn't be here today. So you you have me I can go to the next slide So I believe rapid deployment of advanced nuclear technology is more important today than ever and you heard You probably saw two days ago on tuesday the international energy agency issued a press release The global co2 emissions rebounded to the highest level in history in 2021 coming out of the global the covid 19 crisis So we can't afford to wait And I believe do e and enric are well positioned To rapidly deploy technology help to facilitate rapid deployment of technologies Uh as allison stated, you know the u.s. Department of Energy nuclear energy program established enric and f y 2020 following the passage of the nuclear energy innovation capabilities act Our mission is really to partner with industry to bridge that gap between research and commercial deployment It's not strictly a typical national lab program where we're doing all the research and and we are partnering with industry to bring these things about We are located at at the idaho national lab however to achieve our mission as allison said We are tapping into the resources and infrastructure of the entire national lab complex in the us So we're bringing that resource to bear for for all the reactor developers And we are bringing an entire new approach to management demonstrations Trying to manage demonstrations to success. We have a lean startup mentality You know, I used to run a startup if you work with us You'll hear things like let's do the hardest thing first and fail fast if we're going to fail Right, you'll hear of minimum viable products in this case I'll show you some minimum viable test beds. Let's get something done quickly And we can work on building out better the building out later We're also bringing in assistance thinking approach and approach. It's not just a reactor that needs demonstrated to go commercial We really need to develop the ecosystem to support that reactor We're bringing in advanced engineering techniques such as digital engineering and systems engineering And our team we're building the team that has the background and knowledge to balance the needs of the public and private sector through partnerships Next slide So our vision is simple We plan to demonstrate to advanced reactors by 2025 to enable commercial deployment by 2030 And we are on schedule to achieve this vision and while that vision seems simple The path to achieving that is complex and is going to require a lot of effort on a lot of people's parts Next slide So to accelerate demonstration employment of advanced reactors. We are trying to take a comprehensive approach that includes Inspiring stakeholders in the public. We have a lot of efforts that are associated with that We're also trying to empower innovators by providing the tools and resources such that Such as test beds and experiment experimental infrastructure And I'm going to talk about some of these things as we go through this And we're trying to deliver results through efficient coordination of partners and resources So we're talking about how we're bringing together the industrial partners as long with the lab complex and and Providing facilities, etc. Next slide So partnering is the key here to everything we're doing. Enric has taken a comprehensive approach to partnering that brings together All the stakeholders necessary to demonstrate and deploy advanced technologies. This includes things like People like the private sector other labs government agencies regulators and others essential tools resources facilities and capabilities I mentioned a lot of those things. We do have a partnership a memorandum of understanding with the nrc We have two folks that are assigned to us for the next year working through and and making sure that we we have those an eye on on the regular regulatory effort as we as we move these partnerships forward this partnership allows us to Leverage the and the expertise and resources of a diverse stakeholder base and brings everyone together for a common cause So we're bringing all these people together for for one common cause next slide, please So our priority is empowering innovators and we are doing this through a variety of tools and resources As you as you can see there we are We are looking at We got to get the slide up. I can't see it up there We are we are Leveraging existing infrastructure at inl and building two demonstration test beds allison mentioned both of those of them But I do have a slide on one of them we're providing this for give Reactor developers an opportunity to take their reactors critical for the first time in a safe environment and if you think about it if each individual reactor developer had to create their own confinement to take their reactor critical for the first time it would inhibit Inhibit Take, you know the it would be cost prohibitive for some some of those groups to do that To lead up to those demonstrations. There are key pieces of the technology puzzle that must be resolved so to facilitate this And enric is investing in a key and key expert experimental facilities that fill gaps in existing infrastructure I have a slide later on this that goes through each one of those We are also investing in a virtual test bed where innovators can gain access to models So that they can do virtual tests prior to testing in physical demonstrations And then we have a variety of regulatory and economic risk reduction programs that is looking at things like from Transportation and disposition of fuels demonstration reactor safety design analysis But one real interesting project that we just awarded as a cost-shared project with g itachi That's going to actually demonstrate Further develop and demonstrate some advanced construction techniques And technologies that has the potential to decrease nuclear build costs by 10 and really reduce the risk of the of those builds as well We're really excited about that. We just kicked that off in january But that is that is part of that ecosystem that says okay, we need to do to To demonstrate reactors, but we also need to make sure that they can be commercialized and and advanced construction is very important to that We're developing and deploying multiple planning tools that can help innovators move faster Things like providing access to and funding for resources from around the national lab complex the consultant projects So we we provide funding to the national labs to support Reactor developers as as needed In a consulting role. So we're really bringing that entire lab complex expertise to the forefront Now we're developing tools for helping companies determine if the site is suitable That's the stand tool that you can you can get access. Most of these tools on our website. Can we go to the next slide? I'm running out of time So the next one is the enrick dome Slide which you know, this is one of our test beds that allison mentioned It is demonstrated dumb stands for demonstration of microreactor experiments You know, we're really trying to enable The what we're doing here is refurbishing the old ebr2 facility that operated from 1964 to 1994 It was a 62 megawatt equivalent reactor produced it operated for about 30 years and then it was you know, mothball So we're re re invigorating that reestablishing it and and you know, we had a plan that the initial plan was Hey, let's let's make this the most flexible test bed You know, it's going to cost a lot of money and it was going to it was going to do a lot of things But we what we decided to do was hey, we know we have about five reactor vendors that are very interested in this Let's just make it so that they can test first and then several years down the road If we need to make it more flexible we can add to it So we went with a minimum viable test bed It's just flexible enough to test these first four to five reactors these small modular reactors using You know less than 20% rich fuel and well, you know, we're going to provide them Find that so they can take their reactors critical for the first time. We are oversubscribed for this Test bed. We're going to have to you know, schedule people in we have our first customer coming in in 2024 We've already had a request this past week for 2026 And we have other ones that want to get in 2025 and 2027 And so we're we're working through all that and this is going to be a very good opportunity for folks to To test their reactors as Allison mentioned, we do have another a safeguards category one I don't have a slide on it, but it was just actually officially approved as a project yesterday So we'll be developing that safeguards category one facility as well next slide This slide is our it shows our in rick experimental test Test facilities that we're actually working we're leveraging existing infrastructure that I know I'm building A helium component test facility This is part of that thing that to to lead up to demonstrations We really need to test some of these high-temperature gas reactor components in a non irradiated environment at at the At high temperatures and high pressures as that they will see in the irradiated environment But you need to try them out before you get there things like the helium circulator the the heat exchangers the control neurons, etc We're also developing the molten salt thermo physical examination capability This will be the only test facility that will allow researchers to test thermo physical properties of irradiated fuel salts This is supposed to come online in 2024. This will help inform modeling and simulation efforts and allow for more informed reactor design Um, we also fund the mechanisms engineering test loop facility located at the argon national lab Uh, it is an intermediate scale liquid metal experimental facility. It provides purified r-grade sodium to various experimental test vessels So you can test components that are required to operate in the prototypical advanced reactor environment Uh, we also design building and testing an in cell thermal creep frame for the use with materials testing of advanced reactor materials Uh, we're and in addition I mentioned the virtual test bed where innovators can gain access to models that they can use Uh to do virtual tests prior to uh investing in physical demonstrations here again We're we're making available models from anywhere that people can access including nrc's models Next slide so our goals We know we're going to continue to prepare our vital infrastructure We're going to demo class cutting technologies. For example, I mentioned the advanced construction technology initiative We just awarded we're going to be working through that this year And you know preparing for a demonstration in the future of these technologies We're going to we anticipate we're trying to anticipate regulatory needs and and things such as streamline in the NEPA process You know when we say streamline and we're trying to get it started earlier And so we can finish it earlier Uh, we've also been just authorized by du e to establish a Safeguard sky I mentioned that already. We want to continue to to build our team We're not building a deep r&d bench But we're bringing on folks that understand The urgency of the private sector and how to balance that urgency and how with the public sector interest Uh, and so we're we're really building out that team Most of our folks have a combination or we have some with just industry experience that we're bringing in Next slide so We've done this before the nation built 52 reactors over 25 years at the national reactor testing station Which was the predecessor to the Idaho national lab in enric We're going to do it again Only this time the private sector is going to be leading the way Enric is going to bring in new ways of doing business That is faster more efficient Such as as I mentioned systems thinking the digital framework advanced engineering techniques, etc So hopefully and and and all Arrested around these partnership approaches to make things happen bringing all the best minds and all the best resources together To achieve one common goal So that's my last slide today Thanks so much brad. I really appreciate that you you Um indicated that the nrc and enrico are working together and we're going to be sending some sap out there We see a lot of value to the activities that enric is undertaking and the more we understand the Information being collected and how it's going to be used the more we can leverage it and our licensing approaches So I think it's a great working relationship that we have between So maybe a question to ask you to expand upon a little bit As you develop these plans for all these activities that that enric is going to take on How are you keeping the capability for scaling the work? In mind so that you can support as many members and technologies as possible Yeah, uh, so I like to use a landscape and analogy of sleeps creeps and leaps when you first Have a landscaper come out and install plants in your in your backyard or front yard The first year the roots grow But above the surface it looks like the plants are are not growing so they're sleeping the second year the roots are still growing And yet there is a little bit of growth So it looks like they're creeping and then finally in the third year Most of the growth is above ground above the surface and you see, uh, you know, what we call leaps So sleep creeps and leaps enric is really Following that kind of mold, you know, enric is in the third year of existence in the first couple years We were doing a lot of designing and building The necessary foundation for these test beds and experimental infrastructure and you know building our talent to execute on projects Developing the planning tools that I mentioned and expanding partnerships and resources across the lab Now most of these things are going to be coming online or starting this year Or over the next couple years our big projects our big test beds will be over the next couple years So I think you're going to see a big leap in results a big scale up of results as we go forward I think we're in a good position in terms of being slightly ahead of industrial teams that need our facilities and resources So we're going to be completing those, uh, test beds just prior to The the reactor vendors coming in and doing I'm doing testing Of course all this leap will be dependent on the continued availability of funding and resources for enric So, you know, as I don't know if you heard yesterday the house passed last night the house passed the ominous omni bus bill Uh last night and if it's signed by the president, uh, if it's you know passed by senate and signed by the president You know, we'll we'll see a good bump up in our 2022 budget over 2021 and this is great progress And and you know, we'll need even more in 2023 to to finish the uh large scale test beds But we're on a good trajectory and I think you know, uh, the The foundation we're building today will will yield results in coming in the future Thanks, Brad. Really, um, do appreciate that And I appreciate the presentations from all of our uh panelists today. They were phenomenal I'm sure they're going to generate a bunch of questions and we do see some already Coming into us. So please continue to do that. So we're going to move now to the q and a portion of the session Um, so please continue to feel free to submit your questions based on the dialogue that continues Or what you've heard in the presentations Um, you can propose questions uh to an individual or to the group at large We'll do our best to answer as many of them as we can We may not get to all the questions today, but we certainly appreciate those for our cement So maybe the first question is one that goes to a few of us. Um What is the current review schedule and review status of the applications received and pre application engagements in projects? Maybe I'll start off and then ask uh Margaret and Rusty to provide their perspectives as well on this So the nrc last year did a substantial update To our advanced reactive web page and included within that web page Is the ability to see and track the progress of different applications that are that are coming into us So you can go to the chiro's uh portion of that web page and see all the pre application work that came in Under chiro's that we have reviewed and what its current status is in addition We put a dashboard in place we're piloting a new dashboard on the chiro's reviewed That'll give the that gives the public a snapshot and perspective on the status of the review And it's fed by real-time data out of systems here at the nrc as we track and manage the work You see a substantial amount of pre application engagement from chiro's as well as a number of other vendors and we're completing reviews of topical reports and white papers for those vendors so that they can have more predictability And reliability and licensing process as they they go forward So you can find that also on our web page and see and track all of the ongoing reviews both in Under review and those in pre application space. Margaret. Do you want to provide any perspectives? Sure. Yeah, thanks for for providing that that context for us Rob. Um, Yeah, chiro's is currently working through preliminary questions from the nrc staff Uh, we're working in parallel to finalize the associated topical reports that will support the review of the p-sar And uh, and also nrc's development of a safety evaluation Um, we're very happy to be continuing the um Pre application engagement Uh activities that we've had going throughout this application process and that's been extremely helpful and um Otherwise the review is proceeding on schedule as rob mentioned and with that dashboard review that view that you can see on the website Rusty, would you would you want to add anything to that given you're starting for application activities with the nrc and what your vision is relative to that Sure, I'd be glad to um, you're right. We've started our pre application engagement Um, and there was a whole session on that. Hopefully people were able to see that um earlier this week Where the nrc is encouraging pre application. They certainly have encouraged us and we've benefited from that tremendously at this point. Um, we have also benefited from Looking at what others have done and so we appreciate uh, margaret and the whole chiro's team and what well, we're we're We have not submitted our construction permit. We expect to do that later this year, but we have uh opened up an electronic reading room to start that pre engagement docketing discussion. Um, and so the sort of early audit of individual components of a construction permit We're finding that process very helpful and and overall We've very much are thankful for the advice and feedback We're getting on a regular basis in that pre engagement process. And so we're we're uh, optimistic that uh Licensing will not be the hurdle that everyone continues to to look towards Thank you so much for that Leslie and margaret and we don't want this was discussed by the commissioners We don't want to be that we want to enable the safe use of these technologies So we look forward to the engagements with the company's sections for two years. Um, the next question I have I think those uh best at allison What capability does the uh versatile test reactor offer that things like the advanced test reactor and treat Of course, so this this is a really good question. Um, vtr Is a true test reactor not a commercial plant So vtr and nature and both use sodium cooled test reactor technology But they have very different missions with very different reactor cores and operating cycles Um, if you switch in in in comparison to atr for fuels at least atr can really only simulate a thermal spectrum environment vtr is essential if you're going to be um developing fuels for fast for fast spectrum reactors and then On the material side of the house atr can only impart dpa damage on the order of of 10 dpa per year Whereas vtr can impart um up to you know 30 plus So for materials that are going to stay in a reactor for longer periods, especially fuel cladding vtr is essential At a minimum it's the difference between one year of irradiation in vtr versus Three in atr or two versus versus six and so forth Thank you for that allison I think the next question uh, we'll go well to brad So what impact do you expect n-rick to have on the nuclear industry at large? And how do you see n-rick's mission changing as we progress and see advanced technologies begin to offer? So we are uh, you know our our mission will change for for right now We are building the infrastructure necessary to do The demonstrations that we envision right so once we once we transition to do in the The demonstrations we want to manage those demonstrations to success You know, we're focused a lot right now on demonstrating high-temperature gas reactors. There are other types of reactors You know, we have one customer is going to be using our facility of safeguards category one facility as good as a molten molten chloride reactor You know, there's a lot of technology. So technologies are different different stages of maturity I would say and so as we progress through one technology We can we can move on to the next technology, but ultimately, you know You know a few years down 10 years down the road or something You know, you want to you want to work your way out of business, right? So you want to get to the point where things are commercial and you don't need this program anymore So we consider ourselves similar to a startup. So you you you We started up something here. We're we're working through that startup phase and you know We'll grow it into a bigger business and then we'll sell it Really sounds like n-rick can be a catalyst to so many different things Look forward to following the good work that you're doing So a question here that probably goes a little bit to me into some others is What are major attributes of a submittal that would positively influence and encourage an effective nrc radio? And maybe i'll start and then and lean into to margaret and i'll see if they Have prepared in our planning to prepare applications To us is so first and foremost that we can't underestimate or undersell the importance of effective preoccupation Recognize that these vendors are working on their technologies for years before they ever come in and engage with the nrc And while the nrc has robust training programs for our staff we prepared for different varieties of technologies We will be familiar with the unique safety and operational profiles for the facilities that the vendors are developing Unless we get early engagement with them and that can so Effectively influence whether we hit the ground running and how effectively we hit the ground running and the review Comes in and chiro's is a perfect example of the application that chiro's did Has allowed the nrc to set a very aggressive review schedule 21 months and establish a resource estimate that we're effectively managing and currently under Burning relative to the the budget that we proposed so we're affecting the review In a very focused and systematic way because of the good work that chiro's did on that The other another thing i really emphasizes in the applications make sure you tie that nexus between the risk Aspects of the design what's in the safety profile for the facility make sure we understand what you perceive to be the most important design attributes and The most risky the risk most risk significant elements of the design because the better we understand that Line on our early interview the better will be positioned to focus our review on those aspects and spend less resources and efforts um In in the actual review and finally as the chairman said in his opening remarks make sure you show your work in the application There's a lot of what we hear you we we took one piece designs to be safe Provide the basis for why and the work that you did there's attributes and the safety profiles are demonstrated because otherwise You make an assertion without the supporting rationale behind it. We're going to have to ask the question seek to understand Why? So those are the kind of things i didn't besides margaret rusty do you guys want to weigh in on this? Yeah, i can i can kick it off if if you like rusty um I absolutely agree with your points about pre-application engagement and being clear about defining the um the the truly risk significant aspects of the application um That we have found that to be a very powerful and important aspect of pre-application and and to positively influence as the question said the uh effective nrc review I'd also say that Delivering an application that focuses on the finding that the nrc needs to make We we put a lot of thought and effort into what is it that we actually need a finding about And really tailoring the content of the application and focusing the application on what do we need to support that finding um That it's important because it it not just Uh, make sure that we put the right information into the application, but also that we don't distract the review with other unnecessary details um, and uh, we've also found that topical reports have been a Great tool to be able to align on the less necessary level of detail as well as the pre-app engagement on the application itself um, so both of those things uh Have been very useful tools to us to make sure that we can deliver an application that Supports the finding that nrc needs to make I'll just say it's a great question. Um, it's very it's it's a question We're asking almost daily here as we're in the midst of writing our rcp and and but certainly Pre-engagement is helpful to get some of those answers. Um, and uh, I think that you know There's a lot of guidance out there that's being developed for advanced reactors. Um Obviously as that continues to grow and gets tailored for the different technologies that will be helpful. Um, But um, right now this is just a great question. We're we're trying to answer the best we can every day All right. Thank you So maybe the next question. I think is a good one because it opens up to everybody. I welcome Who wants to weigh in on this question? What do you see as some of the most significant long-term technical barriers to developing advanced reactor technology? Is there anybody who wants to maybe start us off on that? I can chime in if you like rob. Um, just from kp's perspective, we don't see Particular technical challenges that are not resolvable. Um, we use our rapid iterative development approach Um, that allows us to learn from building real hardware Um, it also allows us to resolve substantial technical challenges very quickly um we do need to part of our objective is to achieve cost certainty and uh, so to do that we need to prove both Technology certainty supply chain and manufacturing certainty licensing certainty construction certainty all these things um So that's why we're heavily investing in testing and manufacturing infrastructure as the best way to resolve those technical roadblocks Some other things that come to mind that perhaps are well known. Um The reliable sources of halo that high enriched low assay fuel um, but we don't necessarily see that as a barrier to technological development Um, just something that we need to to work through with uh industry goe and go's And then also a couple other points, uh, perhaps is uh an important challenge is workforce Making sure that we have the right expertise both in the developer industry and in the nrc or other government bodies to be able to support deployment and um And then lastly, it's not really a hard technological barrier, but the viewpoint that That can hamper technological development is the idea that all systems at a reactor site need to have a higher pedigree than other hazardous industries Um, so really making sure that we're consistent with uh state of knowledge not just for the nuclear industry But for all for all um hazardous industries. So those are a few thoughts Thanks faggot anybody else one way in Allison, I don't want to I don't want to speak for for industry, of course but some of the challenges that we've heard on our side is um Cost and schedule for construction And I know that brad had mentioned it briefly, but nrc has our advanced construction technology a ct initiative That could significantly reduce the cost and schedule for advanced reactor construction um I mentioned the personal test reactor in the presentation, but having prototypic conditions to test materials and fuel Which is what the tr would do um And and the test beds having those test beds to bring in and have infrastructure to test these um designs in a safe environment um Could certainly help the deployment Thank you Rossi or anyone that one? I'll just uh reiterate. I think marger gave a great answer I think that the technical hurdles um are are not the biggest hurdles in this project. Um, in fact, um We know we can we the technology has been deployed before it can be deployed again. Um, Certainly there's room for optimization And so I see that is is a lot of the areas we're working on is how can we make it More efficient more cost effective and so then you come right back to the issues of how can you de-risk the whole process Of developing or more importantly deploying and I think that's where more the risk is is not in can we Can we build a reactor or can we license one? But can you somehow de-risk the process and provide? Certainly on commodities on pricing and schedule so that it's de-risk as you think about deploying this technology Thank thank you for that rosty Maybe while I have you the next question. I think it's really good for you and something we we should always keep in mind Um, so how do you how do the universities support the pipeline for future engineers and scientists? Are students interested in nuclear developments? Are you seeing a growth in interest and nuclear engineering? type of pathways Okay, so the short answer is yes We have tremendous student interest in this project the Every incoming student has anything to a stem wants to hear about this project and last summer We had 65 students working on the project here at avalanche christ university Those students primarily came from acu, but they also came from our partner schools this year Without advertising we've had students apply from seven different universities To to come and work with us this summer We have also been told by our our research alliance schools that their graduate program Enrollment or applications is way up because There are students that are hearing about the project and want to figure out how they can be part of it And so there's certainly students there. I mean clearly If you can if you can take your skill set and apply it to real world problems and develop the technology That's going to help address some of the world's most critical needs That's something that that students love to be involved with and and we really view You know a central part of our mission is that workforce development and how can what can we do to help? Educate that next generation of scientists and engineers that are going to be critical to not only operate these advanced reactors Would help continue to develop their designs and and deployment and so that's something we we enjoy doing Obviously brings a lot of energy in the project when you have a bunch of students working on it and One of the one of joys is this is a real world very Interdisciplinary project and so our students come come from all different backgrounds not just nuclear engineers, but All flavors of engineering and chemistry and physics And even math and computer science and so we have a lot of student Interest in the project and so I don't think we have to worry about it The student interest is there. We're going to be able to fill that work pipeline as long as as the universities are ready for the flood That's great rusty. I think in some previous presentations this week We talked about the commissioners and and Dan and I always talked about the Significant hiring that the nrc has to do and we recognize that the industry is doing significant hiring as well As well as do we as they stand up the clean power of project organization. So that pipeline is so critical and it's so exciting to see that enthusiasm and invigoration in Young individuals entering STEM and doing research and technology that will support us all as we progress forward The next question I think goes best to allison and brad What is the benefit of DOE and NREC supporting multiple designs and vendors compared to focusing resources on them? Yeah, so I can start off there. I was looking about the CFE was jumping in but We have set very ambitious climate change goals met zero by 2050 we're going to need a diverse set of Reactor designs to meet those goals and to support energy resilience and security Um, but it really falls back on it is not DOE's role to to pick the winners We are here to reduce the technical risks for the broadest set of reactor designs and and Each design offers unique features, which which could meet different missions. And so we really want to try to Address as many as many reactor types as possible Yeah, I agree with everything Allison said I would just add that It's up to the individual companies to focus on what they think is best We're going to allow people to come in and and test Their systems that they're focusing on So we don't have to pick the winners as Allison said so And coming from the private sector into this, you know, we I was in charge of developing technologies And we wouldn't want DOE picking the winner We would want to focus on what we think we can do best And get have the best opportunity to commercialize that and you never know what's going to derail projects So you can so DOE could focus on one technology and you could get down to the end and it may be financing It might be something else that'll that'll destroy the project Whereas if you have a portfolio or a pipeline of technologies that you can get That's in the best public good, you know Because you're going to you're going to eventually get a winner out of that pipeline and that that's going to be Where and and actually deploying that technology is going to be where the public good comes in So I think this partnership Allow the allow the allow the demonstrators to focus on what they think is best and give multiple And then the DOE give multiple opportunities to multiple people to To companies to try to bring technology to the forefront sort of make it a competitive race type thing And there's lots of different applications for a lot of different technologies as well. So, you know, it's you know, that's That's another thing is, you know, it depends on the market you're going to your targeting Thank you both for that I think a good question here from Margaret is While Hermes is going to help with the engineering of the full power reactor How will the siting process for the Hermes help cars on the efficient siting of the full scale power reactor? Yeah, that's a good question. It's uh As far as the Requirements go for a difference between a non-power reactor and a power reactor. There's a lot of overlap. There's a lot of similarities The the NEPA regulations can be exercised through the non-power reactor as well Part of what makes it very similar for this test reactor is that Is kind of a full exercising of that process There are a couple of differences about the the type of data that can be Cited for a non-power reactor versus a power reactor that type of thing, but In general, I think it it a lot of the processes are similar a lot of the Um Steps that we will need to go through to to do a siting analysis and to do uh the environmental report development are similar So there's a lot of lessons that we can learn through the non-power reactor application as well. Um And we're obviously working through some of the questions with the nrc now on the environmental report review that supports the hermes application and um We're excited to see uh, that great progress is being made there. Um on a really fantastic schedule. So uh, good work, uh happening on on that front, I would say Great, uh, thank you for that Margaret uh, the next question, um, I think I want to propose to folks and and I'll certainly uh seek to answer Or maybe I'll hold mine to the last year is How are you working with international partners to develop and regulate advanced reactor technologies? Um, Allison, I know doe does a lot of work in this area. Could could you elaborate on your your perspectives on how we do that? Of course, so we have a number of bilateral and and multilateral um collaborations with countries on this advanced reactor technologies. Um, we are also um, um Sorry, Jen Jen for international forum. I had to spell it out in my mind. Um, we are also um, uh part of that With some other like minded countries looking at a variety of advanced reactor technologies Um, and so it's really we do we recognize as the the importance of these collaborations to leverage The limited resources we have sometimes and to have a seat at the table to provide Input on safety on safety decisions as it goes forward with across the across the globe Does anybody else want to weigh in before I do? I won't speak to the regulatory part of the international cooperation but I will say that um that the need to develop a pipeline of of of next generation Leaders is something that countries have already identified Um as a need if they want to consider going nuclear. Um, and so we've been approached by some countries and Their universities at in those countries What would it look like to partnership at a university level to help develop that pipeline? You have access to an advanced reactor if they're considering being a new nuclear country And so the international cooperation is that is huge. Um, I think it's on the regulatory side. It's a pipeline development side I think it's something it's it's great to work with our our international partners Great, thanks. Maybe I'll just weigh in here The nrc is placing a if you've been watching some of the other presentations Including the one before this with van dormen and some of our international counterparts the nrc is placing a huge emphasis on international Engagements either through things like the nrc and cnsc Memorandum cooperation, which includes something we're discussing now that may involve enric in the future And as an opportunity to to engage Um, we see those as critical because there's the first steps to looking at how do we license potentially and leverage Similar approaches to making regulatory decisions In countries and Canada the nrc have a lot of similarities in our regulatory Approaches, but we're not stopping there We know that there's lots of good work that the international atomic energy agency is doing It would participate in things like this small modular reactor regulators form there and share our perspectives and gain perspectives from another number of other Member states to the iea and then a good example is work. We've done with nea On fuel qualification. There was a working group there that developed an approach for fuel qualification That could be an international approach We've taken that and adapted it slightly and incorporated into our regulatory guidance as well So we're trying to leverage those good practices that are done Internationally and share our good practices so that we can streamline the ability of countries to leverage the work Done in other countries. So we see that as a critical activity going forward because advanced reactors are not just a national Uh project. They're an international and a global project that the most of these companies are emphasizing the importance of deployment Uh in other countries as well. So the more we do to standardize our approaches The more we can streamline that aggressive deployment and ultimately end Up with the value that we were hoping to see which is its effects on climate change and things like that So I think it's a great opportunity um So Sorry about that. I muted myself unintentionally What additional tools or resources would facilitate developing new technologies and getting them to market? I can weigh in rob if you like There's some technology development areas that are suitable for standard standardization maybe cross implementation um There's been a few technology working groups or twigs that have been established and we found those to be um We anticipate we for example, we currently participate in the uh molten salt high temperature reactor working group um and It has helped with the development of the triso fuel topical report that we have developed And establishes a technical baseline for the triso testing work that will be done at la and l Um, there's other opportunities for common development um And I think while not an exhaustive list some other examples of cross technology development might be generic perks for common phenomena and perhaps making uh modeling capabilities Uh and expertise that can be used by both industry and nrc. Those are two thoughts that come to mind Anybody else have any perspectives? So One thing I'll just add to to uh, it's of concern to acu is the research reactor infrastructure program for the department energy um, that as a university research reactor We're we're looking to uh to partner with department of energy to get our fuel And this is a obviously a new fuel form for them in an advanced reactor world And so that uh that partnership is something that um, we are we are Um relying on and they can't do their job without uh, I guess Funding and so we're we're watching funding bills on making sure that they're that department is gets the resources they need I've been looking down the road in terms of commercial deployment I I think something that we have to address is a a nation is if we're rapidly deploying Small modular reactors or micro reactors the licensing process has to be streamlined And and what does that even look like that's something that we probably all should look at is it together and think about what that process might look like It's good to agree more rusty on that one and I think one of the things It's a theme I think to all of the presentations we've heard today Is the work that's being done in research and development? Then those activities are critical to this because they're going to provide and identify the best practices that can be employed Employed across Technologies that are technology neutral in a lot of different respects Some of it will be technology specific if it's related to the the fuel and the design of the reactor But a lot of things like construction There's a lot of lessons learned and good experiences from the activities at bogel on construction that we did not lose Or or overlook As we prepare for constructing new and advanced reactors going forward So there's we've got to be able to share that information and glean the best practices and then Have everybody understand them so they can take them into and count and incorporate them in their activities and their preparations um so for the next question it goes to me and It relates to the oklo review and it asks if oklo resummit and closes the information gaps identified Do you expect the application review to be able to resume? where it left off That is our desire We want to leverage as much as we accomplished in the oklo review and the working relationship we established with oklo during that review We didn't start some portions of the review because we focused on getting the key safety profile Understood the net design. So once we mail down that safety profile and resolve those issues With oklo it should help streamline and focus our efforts and activities On that review and I think oklo is committed to that as well. So we're we're starting the discussion about the schedule for resummital and how we're going to engage between now and when they do so to try to draw those issues To closure and get the information we need as the regulator to make our safety partners So we're excited to to resume those activities with oklo when they're ready to engage and work with us Here's a question that's a little bit different and um We've been focused a lot on fission technologies in the discussion And most of you are focused on that as well But we recognize fusion technologies out there nima Acknowledges that our frameworks have to work the nrc's frameworks have to work for licensing A fusion technologies as we go forward and and we're very conscious of that as we prepare our approaches and think about How fusion technology may be Regulated in the future, but how do you how do folks? Feel or think about fusion technology fitting into the future of nonpower and advanced reactors Maybe Allison might be a good place for you to start because I know you're doing some work if you're if you're hungry Yeah, so deal. He does do work in fusion reactors. It's more through the Office of science and I believe arpa e does work with fusion as well But like I said before that to meet our energy goals We're going to meet a variety of your of reactors and and if fusion technology is able to be deployed within that time frame Then absolutely there's a there's a spot on the board for them as well Anyone else I know chiro's visit for sewing it not interested so I didn't know if anybody else had a perspective on fusion based on their experiences But I do appreciate the individual asking and the nrc is definitely engaged on activities related to fusion and preparing For that we know there's the fusion industry association out there is is working with a number of potential developers and technologies Related to that and the question becomes What is the regulatory footprint that really needs to exist for fusion technologies? They potentially have substantial safety benefits and risk profiles that Main warrants treating them different than we've treated historically production and utilization Facilities, so we're looking at that and thinking about what the right approach for that will be We encourage engagement on that one of the things maybe I want to touch on for folks is This panel is just one of many things we do as the nrc for public and stakeholder engagement as we emphasize Openness and transparency and our principles of good regulation. We have Routine public meetings about every six weeks on the advanced reactor Program and where we're going as an agency and we bring in many entities To help us and discuss and dialogue various aspects During those meetings and we discuss the status and updates Key guidance and rulemaking activities and things like that That we're doing in in addition. We're doing a number of we're doing extensive stakeholder outreach on part 53 Which we think will be instrumental and critical in the future for licensing these advanced technologies because it's been a Providable performance-based technology inclusive and risk-informed approach To how to license and look at designs like pyros designs like what avalanche christian is is doing And how can that be more efficient and then taking into account the differences between The requirements in the atomic energy act under section one or three which is for power reactors in section one or four Which is for non-power reactors. So we have to factor all of those things into what we're doing So we're just about out of time and we're not not seeing any more questions Come in so i'm going to go ahead and suggest that we wrap up This session. I want to express my profound Appreciation to the panelists today. I found your presentations insightful and thought-provoking So I think we have a lot of work and I think we're all partners in getting to the end respecting our individual roles But if we're going to get to the deployment of advanced reactor technologies We have to all communicate and continue to work together effectively So thank you all for your time today And I appreciate it and I thank the audience for the questions that they have proposed So with that let's go ahead and close up this session and everybody have a wonderful day