 meeting to order at two minutes after five and we have Mr. Peltier here with us welcome and are there any amendments to the agenda that any of us know about so with that in three minutes ahead of schedule we're going to address parking for events that can't meet Mike Peltier of Planetary Matters to Attend action unlikely whatever that means so what it means I would like to start the discussion you know that's that's fine and I just full disclosure Mike and I had a little conversation one day we ran into each other and I just said you know we had had a discussion a select board meeting just a little concern about parking when there were big events it can't meet and so that's what we'd like to do something together as opposed to in the dark or you know correct like like full disclosure one thought that I have is it we're gonna have the smores this again December 28th you know the weekend after Christmas but yeah we're new years and you know it's at night the red festival you know there's some parking on the road parking wasn't an issue you know yeah I drove but you didn't have as many people there probably throughout the day because it was such so long but there was maybe 400 like kind of steady for about four hours but versus like wasn't it 2,000 maybe a thousand for the Samora's Fest and it was in a short time for a period so that's why the cars were all the way up to the well it was after dark which is so you're doing some more than the nighttime on December 28 doing so what aren't you you said you're having another yes on the 28 yeah so one of things is being winter you know plowing becomes an issue and snow and stuff we did figure out we actually added a hundred spaces between Sally's and the lawn at the White House we call it you know the three-bedroom ranch but those are kind of long parking which might not in the winter so my I'm actually here for suggestions from you guys but one thought is you know I drove down to work like the fire station and there's consolidate communications has a lot of parking there as well as and some you know at the fire station you know obviously that would be have to be parking attendance we probably find some roof and shuttles and shuttles yeah so we find a shuttle to find some you know nonprofit group that maybe wants to charge five blocks you know whatever they would like to charge and then kind of control the parking but those areas are kind of sort of paved and gravel so probably most likely going to be plowed anyhow as well as the estate building behind the barracks there's some quite a bit of parking there too well people really go there well you have to direct them I think you would yeah and I think I think that's a great idea you know so that's all I came up with you know snooping around I think that would probably be enough plus we've expanded parking a little bit there so like on the red hand side you know we have room for just about a hundred cars the red hand side meaning the left as you're looking at the building no he's on that side of the road left and right that side of the road because I find it's really sometimes hard to find a parking space just on a Sunday morning you know that's just people coming and going I think that I guess my employees are all parking there too yeah my concern was only with the Samores Fest was the the walking at night and a lot of families and kids and it was absolutely you know it's a concern that's why I'm here one of the ideas I had and I don't know how because they're involved the state so God only knows what they would say about this but to not have parking on the north side of the road that would do two things it wouldn't constrict you know last time there were cars on both sides of the road parking there were people walking back and forth in the dark yeah you know if you just had parking on this side of the road if we were able to put up signs or the state was or however it worked yeah and just no parking on that side of the road that might make it safer yeah that's a great idea yeah that big cones or something to direct yeah yeah we're gonna need I mean the whole key is gonna be to have people there with flashlights telling people where to park and it'll be called this Samores stop instead of the Mountaineers stop this Samores stop it would just be as I said to you that horrendous if somebody got yet scary in the dark because their people coming through don't know what's going on all they want to get us through when they're driving too fast and you know if you had people outstanding and I again I don't know what's your drinking at this point there was you had alcohol available for purchase right what this what the state is going to say about all this but if you have people directing people where to park and then people out on the road with flashlights with reflective you know jackets on that's the whole idea is a walking light right like a safe walk right oh yeah you know which is why you park on one side so then you'd have a walk on the north side is that what you're saying no no no I would just assume not have a walk across the road at all if we can no that they could walk down the same side the cars are parked on like Devin I parked up there too we were like maybe halfway up the hill and when you get out and you're fine and then there's traffic coming and you either hug right tight to a car or sneak in between the front because you can't walk on the other side next to the guardrail right so if you did the thing like what Peter was saying then you could have that a walking lane down to the other be safe in that part my creative space so the cars are a way enough away from the guardrail so that you can walk down inside the cars oh I out of the road so you'd have to have somebody would have to have you'd have to have cones or something and yes you know we'd be you might be you'll be parking in the road you'll be encroaching on the road a little bit but compared to having in the road either way but compared to having cars parked on both sides of the road it's something you'd have to explore what you do if you're there snow banks you have less flexibility right yeah yeah well the snow banks and whatever I mean they don't come in much on that guard rail I mean yeah they plow them down to the snow over the top of them so anyway but you can lose a foot or two but I was thinking one of the same things you are that the parking there at the White House you know you could get quite a bit of parking in there 50 cars they're easy you know if the ground if the ground freezes and you keep it plowed up you know and I realize you got to pick your time so when you move the snow off but if you keep the snow off and the ground freezes then you're golden yeah we might not want to do that that's where the water line goes right from well at the White House they didn't bury it deep enough they put it in the area where no one's expected to plow the snow let's go that way create a berm of snow over the water I know I'm just yeah ideas yeah yeah that's where the well is all the water yeah the White House on the way to Waterbury yes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and if you can get to the driveway the White House we already have like like the bridge in front of mud so you know that's a nice walking area so you don't have to walk on the road there well and there's there's another thing people are walking down direct them to go that way so they don't walk all the way down to the Red Hen in the road yeah exactly just you know just trying to think outside the box and make it safe but I think having people there a couple of people with reflective jackets and flashlights telling people where to park and what to do yeah it'd slow down the traffic going through and it would just make things better and we couldn't even put like no parking along the road both sides to force people to the parking area if you didn't have to do that I mean that would that would help you know what you know whatever I mean probably what you need to do is go talk to the state and see what they'll allow and then we'll support you and whatever all right whatever you come up with I mean it's just the common goals just to make it safe I mean yeah I was events are those events are fabulous but it's a scary new thing for the middle sex I called the middle sex police barracks and you know for the breakfast so it says hey there's probably you know I expect it if we're successful there's going to be lots of traffic and cars parked up and down the route to you know if you have any concerns let me know I never heard back from you know but I want to keep everybody in the loop so if someone has a great idea then you know we can implement so like I just wanted to like start the discussion have you guys start thinking about it light bulb goes off in your head you know let me know say hey oh I got the idea how many how many parking spaces are across the river there must be 25 20 or 25 spaces over there where across the bridge at the canoe place 25 oh no I thought they were like 20 I think they're like five maybe five yeah really if you if you pull I mean on the if you pulled off to the side I don't know I don't really only five yeah there's not a lot of somebody there yeah yeah what about sticks and stuff yeah yeah and they actually they let people park there oh they did you know for the smores this and you know we give them a heads up can people park here and they said sure no problem and people were actually kind of going in before they were even closed on Saturday and then I went and talked to them and they said they were fine with it you know they were happy to support yeah you know right so yeah so that's you know obviously an area to part that's it I just want to keep the conversation going give you something honest before you know it yeah well if you have grandchildren in town nice thing to know about I don't you betcha we're trying to try that was so funny again I spoke world records to be there to make it a good comment who makes the grand red hand bakery and we buy the marshmallows yeah we experimented with that that didn't work for me so yeah I see a pretty full agenda yeah oh you're welcome to keep us company we're looking for yeah we're looking for company oh that's that sounds good to me you know our our only issue is just the horror of some heaven forbid some kids well you know what I was more worried about like that blazing maze some kid getting caught in it but it didn't know some kid kid was asleep in there they check that thing inside it worst-case scenario that's what I do I know I know go to the worst case scenario yeah you express that okay well let's keep the let's keep the lines of communication over and it would be great as the time gets nearer just to come back and tell us where your plans are so you know what you guys informed yeah better be great maybe you have a better idea yeah well yeah I'm okay by having some sort of walking you know I mean that's that could be key yeah all right thanks thanks for coming down thanks for having the good work say hi to Susan teacher I will take care thanks Mike for action likely what was that Mike are these flowers for me yes okay I'll take them honey look what I find don't you dare I don't think I have is that move approval of the September 24th minutes second all in favor hi hi any opposed I don't mean to cut you off but I mean I figure we can move other things if the wind is jogging her mind Patty yeah any correspondence Sarah there was that letter from there's a letter from Kingsbury using solar well but he's so I gather what he's doing which I didn't know here's all the stuff is he wants to put up you know storage buildings up there and I gather he wants to put solar panels on top and somehow most of the electricity from those solar panels ironically is dedicated to Harwood Union so I don't know how that works but they work that's a deal right but he's saying that potentially there is more power power that could be available for the town of middle sex or whatever now what I don't know is and Sarah's in here so there's no update is where the whole permit process only I know is this the same one or is it the same site we have to pass over it don't we're not doing any for our information there's no action to be just correspondence for us okay I can update you because I'm on the ZBA we had a joint hearing with the planning group yeah so you know it was a it was good we went up did a site visit listen to what his plans are one of the buildings is supposed to be again a research and development building and then the rest of the storage and then there's some issue about is this rental storage is a storage for the R&D space what are they R&Ding they don't know it's like they're gonna rent it assuming or build a suit we asked him for a lot of other documentation that he didn't provide that night so he has sent that to Sandy and she just is getting that out Sarah's gonna make hard that's well back to Sandy asked him for hard copies and she's gonna mail that out I think you know when I saw this come in you know I don't think we should consider this at all while it's in the hearing phase for us to do anyway right right exactly right so until there's a you know he gets his approval from the planning board and then ZBA looks at this I mean there's still there's still a big issue about issues whether it's a permitted use even a conditional right right well and there's no clear the issue he's really banking on is the issue that has to do with Mitch and the timing right okay and that's something it seems like he's already gotten the approval he's just yeah yeah and I think it's a mistake for us to do it exactly so yeah that's where it stands now that these documents are in we have a certain amount of time to come back together and look at them and then if we want to continue the hearing you know have him come back and explain any of them it's got a month and a half or two months left to play out asking for more stuff if it's not permitted use well planning where it asked for some stuff for their purposes for the site plan so it was a joint hearing so some of it a lot of it actually is for them for us they're those two issues as far as the the conditional use so we felt like we would go we had Rob Halpert there and the sense was that we were going to conduct a hearing on the merits anyway because they were they were proceeding along the line of there is no reason for hearing on the merits because you missed the timeline it's deemed approved and we said no no no let's back up we're not accepting that that's a that's a finding of law we may end up having to go to environmental court to figure that out but while we're here let's have a hearing on the merits anyway because the planning commission needs to deal with certain issues for the site so that's where we stand right now we'll be coming back together I know probably later in the month and where is the environmental court to understand right now it's kind of on hold kind of or they put in a formal motion they did put in a formal motion but I think Rob basically had talked to them and said you know we're having a hearing on this you know it may get resolved it was kind of like let's not move forward real so quickly it's yes it's formally but I mean it's formally stayed motion so that was my understanding so the hope is if it's not a permitted use then it's not a conditional use mm-hmm why have the hearing how is it going to be resolved well we're gonna if it's not that and the zoning board determines that we're gonna rule that it's not a conditional use so we're gonna deny the application or we might in fact approve parts of it like the R&D facility but not the storage right so it could be split a split decision at which point then if we approve part of it but not another part I'm assuming he's gonna want to go forward and have his day in court with the environmental board we you know we also have to make a determination about his deemed approval status which is the toughest part the ZBA's never never done this before so it's a little walking on ice I mean usually we're dealing just with our own zoning regs this is now a finding of fact yeah so an R&D center is in fact a permitted use of has R&D always been in their initial application thank you so if she does I saw her lining up her foot to give me a check so if he says that it is storage for the R&D facility that would potentially be a permitted use correct potential no and then six months later morphs into something else I'm concerned the R&D could possibly since it's gonna be finished his specifications turn into something else good what's one of the things that we asked a lot of big open space right we asked a lot of questions about was so what kind of R&D I don't know and the ZBA made the point of saying well if it's incubator space if it's R&D we think it needs to fall under one of the either appropriate uses or conditional uses so in a way we kind of need to know what it's going to be once you determine that so we might hold this open until you have a tenant and or the Planning Commission could put condition conditions if they could say R&D is R&D is fine but it has to be either a permitted or conditional use it can all of a sudden be right you know as well right and we want to make we might want to leave this open until you have somebody who wants to do something with the space and then you come back to us and tell us what that's gonna be yeah so that's yeah that's what we stand okay I mean and then sign the solar by the way is out of our hands that's the PUC right so that really we got took that off the table because that was one of his things was the solar thing although he said well that goes hand-in-hand with the storage because it's gonna be on top and we said well we're not we have no authority to rule on the solar so you could put that in just not on the buildings well but they all go together well that you know that's up to you yeah so whole lot of unanswered questions yeah I mean does he have to get a certificate of public good is that what they're saying I think he might on this is that what is so you saying that we don't have any with with solar we don't have as a town like no we have no authority it's supposed to be in conformance with our town plan though yes right but we're not the ones to rule on it so like if somebody wanted to put in a giant solar array on their land as long as long as they can get the public service yeah to rule and that problem they've already filed they had already filed but you could you could weigh in on whether it's permitted yeah permitted under the town plan yeah and that wouldn't be the worst site in the world for a solar yeah look at it every day when we drive by it's up in the woods it's on the roof you'd never have the field well you know I think that's one of the things where the the PUC took that over because a lot of places had put on in fairly restrictive zoning requirements right to keep things out and so there were in fact projects that they were feeling you know we're viable and so that kind of got taken out of our hands well it's gonna be interesting to see how this all evolves because I I am skeptical that there's gonna be a happy resolution to this yeah I'm skeptical and based on what you've told me about this reputation that it would actually be an R&D building if it were a room well they're gonna put up they're gonna put up a bed if they put up a spec building they'll try and rent it anybody is willing to rent it yeah and you know that's where you know when you and I'm not sure how it would work in middle sex but I presume they would have to apply for a change of views for all of a sudden it was something that wasn't permitted so yeah yeah well they have to apply for change of use anyway if it wasn't permitted the application and be denied right application for a change of views like let's say let's say I mean his history been that he complies with local regulate absolutely not okay so that's what he does he acts first and then asked for forgiveness so that's right so that it could be an R&D building something else and then he applies after it's all outfitted yeah but I don't even understand I mean I you know R&D could mean anything from you know petro chemical engineering to could mean anything I don't understand how we do have that I thought there's something around CBD am I just making that up I don't know are you hopeful no I just thought there was that was there what was in the back of their well wait a second I already thinking about the last phase that he did which is with patients alliance maybe where they're building a whole new building that's a growing facility that is another application yeah that one's done that's done around and that's there yeah in that same area yeah it's a separate building okay yeah all right so that's what I'm thinking yeah yeah that was one of the best proposals I've ever seen the Vermont Patients Alliance people yeah I mean they had well that's right we had a joint we had a joint meeting and that was they had their stuff together sure did apparently that company's owned primarily by doctors at UVM who are doing a lot of research their fourth facility yeah they grow security for medical marijuana it's nothing they just broke around okay but that's what's gonna yeah that's what's going to be there I feel like I'm on another planet like a weather like and it's like fully you know for the winter and everything is gonna be a little bit different phases I think it's it's planned for maybe three greenhouses but how much is the tax are the taxes gonna be a real money here yeah it's gonna create some jobs too possibly they won't go to middle sex people although yeah they probably got people already you know because they do have grow facilities in other places and they're right closing I think wasn't the intention to close some of the others and a lot decent as improve that the summer over a year ago yeah last summer maybe it was hot we had no it was a great proposal and the kind of thing that really was and we had some conditions yeah yeah yeah and again like you're saying if there's a change because this is an organic facility the water's all recycled it's really really well thought out as far as you know green building and stuff so that was one of things we were concerned about is that if if there was a change in use or if they sold it and it was to move from organic growing to you know high chemical growing like where they've had problems in Colorado other places that that would be a change of use they'd have to come back to the right the Commission so we said yeah because the organic thing it was it was good certified organic so they put the application in but how do they look up with Kingsbury they actually bought a piece of the land from Kingsbury well Kingsbury actually put the permit applied for the permit because they wanted to make sure that they could be permitted before they bought the property so they had an option right exactly but but anyway was it was well done who's investing in it somebody says to be investing in building the building it's the Vermont Patients Alliance whoever the owners are yeah one of them was there thing that's probably yeah well yeah it could be profit yeah but they're not they're not gonna get involved with commercial grow it's gonna stay strictly in the medical realm well if you've been to Maine recently all the downtown buildings are now a fit with all sorts of lights and they're turning the gross places yeah lots of them over well the other the other comment I would make which is a different subject it's just amazing to me to see all the hemp that's getting wrong and that's for CBD but I mean there are more that can be brought they can't process all of it right I'm wondering about that too I feel like it's now we're over saturated with yeah yeah yeah well the guy that's that's doing a lot of that I can't think of his name yeah yeah the one in Plainfield I mean he bought the hi hey welcome I'm done yeah back in your car yeah thank you very much okay yeah that's for a minute so probably have the thing I just want to bring up quickly and you saw it in the minutes is I made the decision upon hearing the news story today after we agreed to write that letter to the state I want to ask you that yeah not to send the letter why because they made the decision that he's gonna stay in jail until this trial so he's not not coming he was already there he was he's been there yes that isn't what the history he's been there the cops came in got him there and he's still there no we don't come back to jail so he was there and I don't catch that no I didn't catch that either but anyway so we didn't send the letter now at some point in time if he comes back we can send the letter maybe we should send the letter anyway and just say we're aware that he was here now he's back but you know we want to say that we object to him being there I don't know I mean they're not gonna pay any attention to us anyway I think we should be on record but I mean if I'm the only one no I agree well let's when you have a few minutes I'll do it tomorrow let's do the letter okay okay short and sweet short and sweet and I would I would say in the letter that according to the news story he was actually there even though we isn't there now we believe we understand yeah understand that's a better choice of words editorial we get some of the options saying you misunderstood thanks for yeah yeah we can either confirm we are not supposed to know who's there so unless they apply to register to vote right yeah I wondered how you knew all that there are no what I watched the news I watched the news I heard the morning news story was it was a longer story I read there okay and then the case got dropped or something and then she didn't couldn't provide anyone to see he was saying right exactly and that's when they did what they did anything else anyone so when's our next meeting we're back in 15 so I gather again shifting over to another subject I gather we found the plans for the town garage and the specs good you have a folder that break in our rack in our brains then we remembered we done that thing where a couple years ago we found these documents that were in the file we're like oh my god we've got to put these in the vault don't ever do that don't ever move things I know where we found them yeah should just left them in the cabinet yeah okay so hopefully that will reduce the cost of that of that little project anything else from you I mean the good news is that I've been keeping the the meter out here and the and it's everything seems to be fine in this common room so it's not like a threat to the public when they come in it's just in that fall you mean the radar right on yeah did you contact any of those consultants you know I can't email oh you mean the rate on console yeah but what do you send me I'll send you another yeah I had to yeah pretty fast yeah okay so did you get the draft done in your book oh thanks that's got more to go that's okay thank you for that return me thank you