 Is this going to be filmed because I always appear on the news on today? We're going to talk about Pam Hupp. Greg wants to tell us about the videos we're going to watch. Yeah, I'm just going to give you a quick rundown because this is a complex case. She's a murderer convicted and serving a life sentence in the Missouri Correctional Center for 2016 shooting that we're going to hear about today of Lewis Gumpenberger in her home in Missouri. She claims she shot him in self-defense after he pursued her into her house, wielding a knife, and law enforcement didn't believe it, so they went back after. She ultimately entered an Alfred plea, which means they don't have enough necessarily evidence to convict her, but if they did, she'd get a first-degree murder trial. And then what? Got home, opened up the garage, pulled in, got my dog, walked him out in front so he could go pee, and he did, he did his thing, went back, put him inside, gave him a treat, came back out, I'm going to run back up to the mall. I'm supposed to pick up a purchase egg from Best Buy. I had to make an appointment. My appointment's Friday, I was going to run up there, see if I could get it early. So I was going to run back up there, and as I started pulling out and got halfway out, I noticed as I was backing up that a cart came down really fast down the cross street, and looked around right in front of my driveway, because I'm right at the end, here's the cross street, and here's my driveway. So they came out and did this right in front of my driveway, and I looked up because it was so fast and startling, and somebody jumped out, and I was like, wow, somebody, I don't know what I thought, somebody was hurt, I don't know what was going on, it was so fast. And then he ran up, I was halfway out of the driveway, I was parked, and he jumped in my car, he opened up the door and jumped in my car. Which door? The passenger. Front or back? Oh, front. The passenger car. Go ahead. And he had a bunch of stuff in his hands, I don't know what he had, but he had a knife also, but he had something in his other arm, I don't know what he had. And he put a knife and kept going, just yelling random stuff, like you're going to take me to the bank and get Russ's money, take me to the bank, you're going to take me to the bank, he put a knife up to my throat there and was yelling stuff, and he kept looking behind him like this. So I didn't, I put it in gear and I was thinking how it's going to get out of there when he was looking, and he kept yelling and coming back, and then he looked back again and I hit his arm with the knife and then shot out of the car and ran inside. Okay, so. Jayce, what do you got? This is the quintessential case of what pronoun absence looks like. So listen closely to the story when the clip comes back on, the details that are known like streets around our house are full of pronouns. Every time she shifts back to fabricated stuff in the story, there's a severe decline in her use of pronouns. You'll even hear her substituting just sounds for pronouns several times, just like a sound out of her mouth instead of he or I. And we see her using body narration to illustrate this car pulling in, and this will be important to look at later. And body narration is when we use our body, not just to emphasize a point or a phrase like Scott talks about, but just to help describe a location, help to show the movement, the size, the action of an object. Secondly, there's a part here where she says, then he put the knife. That's it. That's all she says. Then he put a knife and no end to that main point of trauma. The biggest part of the entire story, there's no end to that sentence. Overall, there's a hundred things here in this video, but let me just give you a few that you might want to look for when it comes back up. Chronology is first explaining things from beginning to end. People that are being honest typically start with the biggest event unless, which we don't fully know. Someone specifically told her, take me from the beginning and walk me to the end. So the question matters. Next, we have detailed mountains and valleys here. There's a lot of detail about irrelevant crap and there's no detail about the most relevant things. And finally, there's pronoun absence at all the parts that are fabricated. Today's video is sponsored by Aura. I'm excited for this because I've been using this app for over two years. If you didn't know how much private information is out there on the internet about you, when you first see it, it's pretty shocking and maybe a little disturbing. These people that collect all these private things about you are called data brokers, but there's a secret here. They have to take down your information if you ask them to. So they make it incredibly hard to do. So what we do is let Aura handle that for us and you can do the same. You can let Aura do all the work tracking down and removing all the stuff that you don't want online. And you can try Aura for two weeks for free using the link right at the top of the description down there. And Aura does a ton more than just getting your information off the internet. They protect you from threats that you and even your kids can't see coming. And it's super easy to set up. You don't have to go download a million different apps to get all the benefits that Aura has, like parental controls, antivirus, VPN, software, password management. They even have identity theft insurance, everything. One of my friends was over here sitting in this office just a week ago and I typed his name in and within just a few minutes we found everything. Even his anonymous accounts were on the dark web and the passwords associated with those. He downloaded Aura that night. So you should look into this. Your private information should be private. You can go to Aura.com slash TBP, just like the behavior panel, TBP right now to start a free two week trial that I've also linked down in the description. Scott, what do you got? All right. First off, the story should begin when the actions start happening, when she's in the car. All these extra little qualifiers she's got right out of the gate. Those are huge red flags. When you start hearing about how you walked your dog, you're going to target or whatever and then you came in and gave them a little treat and all that kind of stuff. No. It should start with I was in the car backing up and boom from there. It should start from there. Her illustrator should be a lot bigger and she should be almost acting out what happened and maintaining that hard eye contact. She's not doing that. She's staying at that. Right now she's staying kind of tight. We're seeing illustrators but they're not as big as they should be when something this dramatic has happened. 95% of the time, 98% of the time when you get to, when you're telling a story or something happened, your eyebrows will go up when you get to the important spot because that makes everybody go, oh, because you're like, this is the important part. Check this out. If you watch our last episode when I talk about the time I got kicked out of Lord of the Dance, you'll see my eyebrows go up. Every time I get to a spot I want the guys to listen to because that's an important or funny part of the story. So when somebody's doing like I was doing just them because I was telling you that was important. There's another form that Greg has coined called request for approval and somebody's telling you something and the eyebrows go up and they're hoping you're going to believe what they say. It's almost like please believe what I'm saying, which is similar to Mercy Hands, which we'll talk about in a little while. This is a completely different situation than telling a story like I was, for the example I was given. So I understand it's not the very same. And so you understand it's not the very same. But make sure you pay attention to all the things that happen when someone, we don't have a great baseline on her for telling, for talking about something. So we can't tell what it is so far. However, as you go through this, her baseline changes. So be sure to pay attention to that. Now anytime a person touches their neck, it could be like this or it could be like this or like she does this fist to neck and the face thing out there. That shows you something's up. That means there's an issue there that suggests that person's uncomfortable. There's a little bit of stress there about something. She does this almost the whole time in some parts. So let's pay attention to that. Greg, what do you got? Yeah. So let's talk about a couple of things. Requests for approval, the way I coined the phrase is not necessarily about, I'm telling you a lie. It just means I need approval. Same way you did, Scott, when you're trying to make the point of, hey, this is an important part of the story. You got it, right? So it can mean nothing and it can mean everything. It depends on how it comes together. The other one is Chase. I agree with you. The thing here is I always say people work in three areas of memory, time, event, or sequence. Time meaning like you and I grew up 0600 B here, 0630 load, 067 o'clock rollout, that kind of thing. Event is the big chunk, the big thing that happened. If you asked me what I did yesterday, I'd say I rode a horse. And then I'll fill in the rest. But there are people that go detail by detail by detail by detail. They make you crazy. They also are not good at lying because they forget to make up all that detail that they've stored in their memory about taking their dog to pee when it comes to the most important things about a person getting out of a vehicle coming and doing something. So we're going to see a lot of that with this person. The other thing is, remember, if I'm telling a lie, this is the beautiful thing about interrogation. I'm going to walk you through a cool part of this interrogation and I'll show you when it happens. But if you're telling the truth and you've just gone through a stressful thing, what do you think that does to you? It tones that down. It makes you feel more comfortable. You're getting it off your chest. But if you're lying and trying to hide something, that stress is going to ramp up. We're going to see it and I'll show you how to identify it in a very specific thing this woman does. She does a couple of interesting things. You see she's using both hands up and moving when she's talking about this car turning and curving. Her elbow is away from her body. I would say that's her normal drama style of telling a story. But when you get down to details, let me back up a second and say, I think what she's using there is transforms. If you live in an intersection of two roads, you've seen a car do that many times. It's real easy to say the car did this and did that. But when they get down to details, watch those elbows well to her sides and her hands start to move like a little T-rex. That's, you'll see it throughout this whole video. She's going to be moving arms like a T-rex when it comes to something that's important. Her arms are too short to make her point. Then she gets to these details and she's got that exoskeleton. What I'll tell you is when a person's feeling stressed, they close their elbows to their side and no matter how much they hold their palms up, it's hard to look trustworthy at that point. So I start to go, why? She also says in this video, he had a knife and some, we had some stuff in the knife. Well, what kind of stuff did he have? Because I'm going to tell you, one time ever in my life of having a, being threatened with a deadly weapon, I remember the deadly weapon. The guy could have had monkeys and watermelons and all kinds of stuff and I wouldn't have noticed it because your brain focuses on what's important. Chase, my other favorite thing she does, he put a knife to my throat and kept yelling stuff and she just shifts scares and not something serious. A good liar is going to deconflict all kinds of things from angles we always talk about in Liar's Loop. There's a trigger causes you to need to create a lie. Then you fabricate and that fabricates when you make up the details. Then sitting privately, you're going to deconflict all those lies before you pitch, but then you find out where you really need to deconflict. So you defend the person attacks, you deconflict again and you recreate and pitch. So there's a whole lot of stuff going on. And what we're going to see is stress coming up in these videos that shows us this person has done, trigger, fabricate, deconflict, and here's the pitch. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So as usual, I have no idea who we're talking about here, never come across this before. I've been here reading all these books. So I'm not street smart. I have no idea what's going on here. So I'm going to walk you through what happens in that I've been reading all these books. Yeah, yeah, no problem. Oh, a bit of science for you there. A little bit of science. We can go into at some point why the space shuttle crashed due to Fenneman's ideas on that book. So let me just walk you through what comes across to me. This look defeated by gravity already, it would seem and the hand up to the face just like you were saying there, Scott. I mean, it shouldn't really cause a problem. But in that situation, it feels like it may well be a barrier may well be a barrier. Let's see. Let's see how this this pans out. But immediately for me in that situation, where you maybe want to express yourself want to get your story across. Why are you being defeated by gravity already? And why set up this this barrier? Just as everybody's saying, there are some good descriptors there. There are some some good gesticulation telling us about the roads and how it all went. But outside of that one hand drops down and only the other hand goes. So it's asymmetrical and then suddenly come becomes symmetrical when we can talk about the geography of the road. That interests me. Why why get exercised at that particular point? I think to your point, I think it was maybe you saying Chase, maybe or maybe it was Greg, that this is something that has been experienced somewhere. So it's real. It's really happened just like many intersections have really happened in people's lives. And it's maybe been transplanted or sublimated or transferred in some way. So I agree with that. Yeah. And then at the end of it, hand retreats back to the leg and back to the barrier. So in this context where you'd want to express yourself and get your point across because you want to tell the truth and you want to go, look, let's just get this out the way so I can get out of here. Why the depressed kind of state there and why the barrier? Let's see. I'll find out as we go along there. It's all I got on that one. Yeah, I wouldn't dispute. And then what? I got home, opened up the garage, pulled in, got my dog, walked him out in front to make him go pee. And he did. He did his thing. I went back, put him inside, gave him a treat, came back out. I'm going to run back up to the mall. I was supposed to pick up a purchase that I from Best Buy had made an appointment. My appointment's Friday. I was going to run up there, see if I could get it early. So I was going to run back up there and as I started pulling out and got halfway out, I noticed as I was backing up that a car came down really fast on the cross street and looked around right in front of my driveway because I'm right at the end. Here's the cross street and here's my driveway. So they came out and did this right in front of my driveway and I looked up because it was so fast and startling and somebody jumped out and I was like, wow, somebody, I don't know what I thought. If somebody was hurt, I don't know what was going on. It was so fast and then he ran up. I was halfway out the driveway where I was parked and he jumped in my car. He opened up the door and jumped in my car. Which door? The passenger. Front or back? Oh, front. Professor Scott. Go ahead. And he had a bunch of stuff in his hands. I don't know what he had. He had a knife also but he had something in his other arm. I don't know what he had. And he put a knife and kept going, just yelling random stuff like, you're going to take me to the bank and get Russ's money. Take me to the bank. You're going to take me to the bank. He put a knife up to my throat there and was yelling stuff and he kept looking behind him like this. So I didn't, I put it in gear and I was thinking how it's going to get out of there when he was looking and he kept yelling and coming back and then he looked back again and I hit his arm with the knife and then shot out of the car and ran inside. Okay, so okay, so let's first describe the car. Can you give a description of the vehicle? Well, I wasn't really paying attention to the vehicle. More of the, um, sweetness of their tires that they did. It wasn't just a silver. It wasn't as small as like a little Toyota, a little bit bigger, but not a big one sitting in. It was four doors. So four door, mid, so you would say mid-sized? Yeah, kind of mid-sized. It wasn't brand new. I mean, as you reflect back, do you remember anything, anything specific about, other than being silver and being four doors, anything on it? You said it wasn't that new? No, it wasn't like shiny, like he could tell it was, like my crash, you just said a 2400, kind of like older, like that, you know, not that it was a piece of crap or anything, but it was, yeah. There's a veteran car. Yeah, Grisha Gitter. And, um, that's all I remember. It was just so fast. Like I wasn't really even looking at the car. It was like, what's this hastiness of this car's doing, this quickness? I didn't know what was going on. It was just getting, it was just weird. It was getting weird. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so we talking about L.O.T. Rex thing where your elbows are welded to your side. I watch when we're doing election coverage, you watch people put their elbows to their side. I've seen Trump do it. I've seen Hillary Clinton do it. I've seen Biden do it. Your hands sticking up this way don't make you look believable when you're close to the edge of your ribcage. I think I told you guys a story about being on stage, Mark, throwing a sword shot and the guy closing his elbows and putting his head down, taking a shot right to the scalp. It's human nature to create an exoskeleton when we're feeling compression or something's coming our way. She also then does a neck contact pretty severely at details about the car. She hasn't thought about whether it's two door forward or what color it is because it wasn't important to her story. The part we'll see that she has figured out is how the guy ended up in her house and that kind of thing, but how he showed up with a bunch of stuff in his hands and a knife, which car he got out of, which door, all that stuff doesn't look right. And she makes really hard eye contact. Again, in true crime workshop, we call that the romance or because I'm paying really close attention. I want to make sure that you're believing me. But as he asks questions that blink rate goes up and we associate blink rate with stress, regardless of what you want to call why her feet curl under her chair. And when I see a person's feet curl under her chair, I see anxiety, anxiousness, the need to be ready to do something, whether it's to inject information or to get away, whatever you want to call it, it's preparation. Her elbow movement is all gone away from her body. You don't see any more of it. Look, I think what I'm seeing is something she's done over and over and over the right level of detail. Bacon saving, just throw bullshit your way out of a chaotic situation. She strikes me as somebody who might have done that a time or two. And we'll see more of it as we go. But again, as you tell a story, if you've been in a really stressful situation, think of each of you. If you've been in an automobile accident and a cop first shows up, you're stressed when you first start. And as you tell the story, things lighten up. You get in an altercation at work and then you tell somebody about it, it loosens. But what we notice in people is that stress rises when they're trying to hide something because inside her little head, she's got this thing running where she's already de-conflicted and she's trying to pitch and she's being forced to de-conflict on the fly about what kind of vehicle, which door the guy got of, and that. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so she's being forced physically as well, because she's pinned right up against the wall. And I don't think it's just because she's in a sticky situation right now. The two detectives there are maximizing as much as they can the space that they take up. Have a look at the detective who's doing most of the questioning. You'll see that his arm is straight out in front of him. So he's maximizing all that space. I'll try and do it right now if I go back a little bit here. Here we go. And his legs are literally out like that. I mean, that takes ballet and yoga to be able to put your legs out as far and then kind of jiggling around. So look, the reality is everybody is somewhat excited and nervous and taking up space or decreasing their space. It's quite a ballet that's going on here. Shout out to those detectives who really have got some good movement in their hip flexors. Certainly can't put any of them past the age of around 50, I would say, to still have that movement in their hip flexors. They're quite extraordinary. But in my mind, a little too much for this situation. I don't see why they need to maximize that much on this. Chase, what do you got on this one? So I think I nodded too early when you were saying the interrogators have good and I'm like, yeah. Me too. So what the interrogator is doing here is establishing a baseline. And this is what a lot of interrogators do. Just asking known questions and observing behavioral indicators while a suspect is recalling, you're explaining just known information that's likely to be truthful. When you hear an innocent person, there's a few things you will likely never hear from them. The first is explaining their motive for insignificant actions. The second thing you will not hear from an innocent person is needing to elaborate on insignificant details that weren't even asked about. And third, explanations that involve objects moving instead of people performing the actions. How she explains the car moving and not the man pulling into the driveway, like he pulled in, he pulled up. That's a different thing. And you're going to hear this later when she talks about a door mysteriously opening itself without a human being involved there. So you can take a look when this video comes back on to see which of those three little elements you see or hear in this video. Scott? After the question, she rubs her leg and quite often we take this as a deception cube because that's an adapter. She's adapting there. And I think that's what it is in this section. So I think that's an adapter because I think she's being deceptive. And just before that, she opens her hands and she shows an open-headed gesture. And every time I see that, I'm thinking that. I think of Mark. And I think of that thing as open-headed gesture in that little meme. And then while at the same time she's doing that, she shows the expression of contempt and that head goes, I think, to her right. Yeah, I think it's till to the right. And that translates in this specific situation as I don't know. We see her, that kind of thing. So we all know that in our culture as I don't know. If the hands were in front of her like this, they were coming out, then I would refer to those as mercy hands. I said, please believe me. But you'd have to get rid of that little expression of contempt and that head to the side tilt. So just be like, please forgive me. You get a shoulder shrug with that. After illustrating the car size, she goes back to putting your fist against her neck. So that's again, is a self soothing gesture going by Joe Navarro. And again, it's one of those things where anytime someone touches their neck, they'll let you know there's something up there. There's an issue there. There's stress there. When she illustrates with her hands, she talks about getting weird here. She's creating time. She's making, she's trying to add all this confusion in there to these detectives. So that'll be under the impression, you know, there's so much going on I couldn't pay attention because she's, I'll talk about the creating a story in just a few minutes. But like when she starts moving her hands in a circle and stuff, she's talking about things getting weird. That's when she starts hinting at other things going on that they won't be aware of and she won't really be able to recall. So when she starts talking about confusion, I think that's really important. This whole thing leaves me with the impression she's being deceptive. Okay. So let's first describe the car. Can you give a description of the vehicle? Well, I wasn't really paying attention to the vehicle, more of the shriekness of their tires that they did. It wasn't just a silver. It wasn't as small as like a little Toyota, a little bit bigger, but not a big one sitting in. It was four doors. So four door, you would say mid-sized? Yeah, probably mid-sized. It wasn't brand new. I mean, as you reflect back, do you remember anything, anything specific about other than being silver and being four doors or anything on that? He said it wasn't that new. No, it wasn't like shiny. He could tell it was my crash, he just had a 2400, kind of like older like that. Not that it was a piece of crap or anything, but it was, yeah. There's a veteran car. Yeah, Grisha Gitter. That's all I remember. But it was just so fast. It wasn't really even looking at the car. It was like, what's this hastiness of this car's doing, this quickness? I didn't know what was going on. It was just getting, it was just weird. It was getting weird. So, in trying to remember how your street is, which way did the, so if you're sitting in your car pointed at the garage, which way did this car come from? Right here, the right side, that, that little street there, I don't know what it's called. So, the street behind you? Behind me, yes. Because the way I, well, I probably have you draw it out later, but so not, so the street behind you, I know what you're talking about. It's almost, it's directly behind my neighbor's driveway. Okay. And I went over. So, I can, I can see them, went around, come out of there. And all they did was come right around, right to my house. Okay. So, he jumped out of the car, he jumped into the passenger front side of your car. Where does he jump out of the silver car from? I don't know, they asked me that. I really wasn't paying attention. I, I want to say the backseat, but that may not be true. I keep trying to remember, I thought, and that may not be true. Were there other people in the vehicle? There was a drive, all I saw was a driver, because he squealed away. So, I was like, what the hell? And he looked. What was the most distinctive thing about the driver that you remember? Dark hair was kind of like a buzz cut. In dark skin, like Hispanic, maybe something like that. What crosses my mind, I don't know, it could be anybody. I don't know if they were Hispanic, but that's what crossed my mind. Okay, so you have it. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so look, I'm quite good descriptive geography that she's doing there. Although one of the arms goes way, way out. It kind of, you know, in a certain camera angle, it would leave the frame. Sorry, Greg, it looks like I'm stealing your thunder. And you may have this one as well, Greg. At the same time, her legs retract underneath her ankle's lock together as well. So, look, at this point, we're three videos in for me. And I was just kind of searching around on the first two, you know, not really knowing what on earth is going on here. But at this point, I go, hang on, there's something up with this story. There's a little more pressure around her description of this. This description may not have happened. I mean, it's good. I mean, geographically, it seems kind of good, but one bit is too extreme. And the retreat with the feet at the same time, just as you were saying, I think, Greg, it could be something that happened somewhere else. And it's been, you know, maneuvered in here. And then she goes for the supersonal notch here, which is just this little bit here, which is an interesting part of the body. Because obviously, your trachea is here. And if your trachea gets out, well, you can see what happens to my voice. If I press in there, it's a very vulnerable area. And what you'd expect to happen is, is when somebody's under stress and pressure, they will turtle in. And you'd think, okay, well, that protects it. Well, it doesn't. It doesn't protect it at all. Yeah, this part of the trachea is vulnerable most all of the time. It's really hard to protect it. So is this, you finding that funny, Scott? It's like Ricky Gervais in the bath, if you've ever seen the pictures of him. Oh man, those are classics. So look, it's interesting that she goes for this notch at this point, very, very vulnerable area with all of this. Video three, this is where I go, okay, there's something up with the story here. There's something way deeper that's gone on here. Scott, what have you got on this one? See, that's no of those things that we call Amazon, Amazon. And we call it the trachea, we call it the trachea. The trachea, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so that's what threw me. Sorry, man. Yeah. All right, the big cue we see that doesn't fit here is that lip compression. And so that we assume that's adapting at that point. She's getting rid of that built up stress retention because these can get pretty big in there on her. And then after that explanation of the car's movement, we see a classic cluster of cues. We see rubbing the leg, we see grooming by rubbing her arm, and we see that hard lip compression again. Most of these things, when you look for clusters, you want to make them within a five second window. So taking that into consideration, we'll talk about that thing where she flips her hair or grooms her hair just a few seconds before that. So that's a great cluster. All being suggested, deception cues, any situation like this. So I'm under the impression she's being fairly deceptive up to this point. So after the next question, she goes with a full blown, a covering of what I'll refer to it marks as a super stern notch. This thing is a little dimple right here, the trachea as you refer to it. So that lets us know there's a lot of stress. When you call someone, especially a woman, you say, oh, your kid broke its arm or his or her arm or this half of that hurt, and they'll touch their super stern notch. If you watch videos of the planes hitting the towers, and you see the people down the street looking, there's a lot of people hands on their head, a lot of them doing this, and a lot of women touching the super stern launch. It's a very interesting genre of videos to watch, I guess, of the under horror genre of people that are being horrified watching that. So it gives you an idea of when people touch their neck or one of the situations where that happens. Then when she starts talking about the possibility of the person being Hispanic, I think that's when she realizes she's got to admit too far back, too far, and tries to get a handle on it. So it's about to get out of hand for her here because she's making this stuff up as she got, the details up as she goes along. All right, Chase, what do you got? Yeah, so y'all just nailed all the behavior stuff. So all of those things that y'all all talked about all fit within the five C's that we say, is this a red flag? Does it go through the five C's, which is change, context, clusters, culture, and checklist in that order. And let's talk about words per second. Since y'all didn't hit a lot on that, let's talk specifically about action words. So in people who are recalling a truthful story, there are limited action words. In deceptive statements, you're more likely to get filter words. So unlimited action words is what I meant back there. So a statement about a car pulling into a driveway might sound like they pulled around. Instead, you're hearing, I could see them, and then it was repeated again. All they did was come right around right to my house. And during this time, you see this immediate foot withdrawal under the under the chair that Mark, you talked about. And she's using all of these gestures that are perfect to show the streets that are very direct and very straight, then they instantly become jerky and awkward gestures, the moment she's describing the movement of the vehicles on those streets. And you can see it clear as day when this clip comes back up. This is followed by instantly doing this hygienic gesture of lint picking on her arm, which I think is the only thing y'all didn't hit, which is self soothing behavior. And we unconsciously do it as a decoy to hide stress most of the time, gigantic cluster right here. So in a 20 second time span, here's what you're going to hear when this clip comes back up. I'm not even going to talk about the body language at all. Here's what you're going to hear within 20 seconds of this clip coming back up. I don't know. I wasn't paying attention. That may not be true. I thought that may not be true. Maybe something like that what crosses my mind, I don't know, could be anybody I don't know, that's what crossed my mind. Which I think as far as statements go, this is one of the top five that we've ever done. That's all yet. So let's talk about another thing that's one of the most top five. First of all, I'm just going to tell you this has one of the most pronounced clusters we've ever seen. If I were going to use anything ever for cluster in a video, it's this one. I'll get to that in just a second. Well, let's first start talking about interrogation. Interrogation is one of many different things. Interrogation can be about confession and closure, read. Interrogation can be about discovery and that can be police interrogation or intelligence interrogation. Those, you don't assume that the person's guilty. You're trying to fish and get information. I think that's where we're at right now. We're trying to get enough information to figure out what we think. We don't have enough evidence. The evidence hasn't been collected. I think this is not long after the shooting. She's back to this wide elbows away from the body. I talk about transference as a lifestyle. I say there are really four kinds of lies. Omission, commission, embellishment, transference. Embellishment, you know what omission is, leaving it out, commission is creating it. Transference is the big one. I take Chase's life and turn it into mine. If I'm talking about an intersection and cars are there, traveling, I've seen cars do that. So it's easy enough. So she would be a great geography teacher because she's expression and all of that mark to your point. She's really big. That's why I scratched off my note. But we're not using read at this point. The other thing that you're talking about as an adapter there, Chase, there's a very faint, I use it in my class all the time. There's a picture of Hillary Clinton doing exactly that when she's in front of Congress. It's not a political statement. She's there. They're grilling her and she looks away and she suddenly goes, oh, I'd better have a reason to be looking away and she picks Lent and moves back rigidly. This woman does the same thing. It's forced grooming to create some reason she did it. All of us from childhood on want to have a reason we do things and once we're rational and aware of who we are. So we try to find a reason to look rational and not stupid. It's what we do. She leans in and shows some displace as she's listening to these guys and she's got romance or eye lock where she's trying to make sure these guys agree with her until they get to the really tough questions. When they get to the really tough questions, she does all that stuff or blank rate increases. Now you're going to see a cluster like very few we've seen. She begins to cover. She covers the superstunnel notch or maybe even massages it. And there's a reason some people might do that even without regard to the superstunnel notch. Many people blush on their chest when they're feeling stressed and they're aware of that. You see it in women because of clothing choices, but there are men who do it too. Trust me, having interrogated enough men, you'll see it on their chest as well, just more pronounced in women most of the time and a lot of time by clothing choice. When you're conscious of it, you're going to cover, but that superstunnel notch is likely what we're seeing. Let's go to even more, even more of a cluster. She stares right down the camera, which we don't often see. She's kingly where the camera is there. One shoulder rises at dark skinned Hispanic, followed by closing the neck of the garment. There's a barrier for you. Her elbow jumps away from her body. I forget you call that some kind of a joust procedure chase, but her elbow jumps away from her body. She turtles and then she stops moving. She barriers with her hands, grabs a napkin and starts to release nervous energy and sacred space. Guys, you don't get much better than that cluster of behaviors in response. Never mind all the words about maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm making this up. Maybe it's not right. This is one of the single best examples of clusters we've seen. Now I'm starting to lean over and go, from here on, you got a lot of work for me to believe what you're saying. That's all I got. Yeah. And the thing about the, about the lint picking, it's a form of disrespect as well, because if I was talking, let's, let's say I'm talking to you, Greg. And as you're telling me something, I get after me for something. Talk about how big my nose is. Don't be talking to me about lint picking. So they do that as a form. I think, and to me, that's what I took the Hillary Clinton thing as, because when I do a training, that's what I, that's what I use it as, as a disrespect thing. She's rigid when she looks over. Yeah. It's so wild. Yeah. I've seen people do that in meetings where they're getting, where there's like a little fuss and one person think they're under the impression they're cooler than the other person and they'll do that. Yeah, I wouldn't dispute. So in trying to remember how your street is, which way did the, so if you're sitting in your car pointed at the garage, which way did this car come from? Right here, the right side, that, that little street there. I don't know what it's called. So the street behind you? Behind me. Yes. Because the way I, I probably have you draw it out later, but so not, so the street behind you, I know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. It's almost, it's directly behind my neighbor's driveway. Okay. And I'm one over. So I can, I can see them what around come out of there. And all they did was come right around right to my house. Okay. So he jumped out of the car. He jumped into the passenger front side of your car. Where does he jump out of the silver car from? I don't know. They asked me that. I really wasn't paying attention. I, I want to say the back seat, but that may not be true. I keep trying to remember. I thought, and that may not be true. Were there other people in the vehicle? There was a drive. All I saw was a driver, because he squealed away. So I was like, what the hell? And he looked. What was the most distinctive thing about the driver that you remember? Dark here. It was kind of like a buzz cut in dark skin, like Hispanic, maybe something like that. What crosses my mind? I don't know. It could be anybody. I don't know if they were Hispanic, but that's across my mind. So you wanted to look at the driver? Yeah. Yeah, because when he started to whip around, I, all I saw was like a dark dome. Sorry, but short hair like you wrote short, maybe not quite as short, but it was dark. And I was, and that's foreign in that neighborhood. It's all the same people. Were there windows open in their vehicle, you know? I know. That's what I saw. I remember. And so that's the only other person you saw in the vehicle that you can remember? Yeah, because I really wasn't looking for people. I just noticed him when he went real fast to turn and I looked up and I just happened to see the driver because that's who was coming around and didn't even see the other person until they whipped him in front of my driveway and he got out because at then I wasn't really, I wasn't just staring at him. When it first happened and I heard it and I saw it, I was like, it was just weird. And then they hurry and I looked up again and they, that's when they whipped and I was like, it's just weird and kind of looked down again because I'm getting about my business and they didn't keep going. He got out and then the other guy squealed away real fast and he was already there before. So the guy squealed away before, before he, well, you know, at what point did he get out? Did he squeal away? Well, in comparison with what the other guy was doing. Right. As soon as he pulled around and I wasn't looking again, I looked back down to put, you know, to get ready to go and stuff and pulled around and I looked up again. The guys had shot out when he pulled around. The guy like shot out and I looked down again and thought kind of strange. I don't even know if I thought it was strange, but it was weird. And so I looked up again as he was getting out and he squealed right off. The guy squealed right off like, hey, so we shut the door, but I don't even know because I wasn't looking at that. I could hear it and then and I was more looking at like, who's getting out of the car? You know, is it somebody I know? Because I ran from a driveway. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So she says the other guy squealed away really fast. At that point, she scratches her chest. Her hand collapses down and we get an audible slap on the thigh. And then her fist goes back to her cheek again, burying. So here's here's what I would suggest is there was probably no other guy. And if there was another guy didn't squeal away anywhere, I don't think any of that stuff around there happened because this is so far out the baseline. We haven't seen that before and there's no reason for it other than as you were saying, Greg, could be flushing there at this point and feeling the blood flow and therefore turning that into a into a scratch. So certainly there's there's stress there always when I hear something audible on the table or on the or on the thigh or on usually it's a bit like for me, the vocal click that comes something is up around that. That's why my clients when they're on TV, they take their jewel jewelry off so they're not going to be able to make any sounds on the desk of the of the of the TV station and signal to people that they're they're in trouble at that particular point. Oh, and by the way, there's just lots and lots of fillers in there. I won't even go into how many fillers there are, but it's just full of filler. So not looking good video for not looking good for Chase, what do you got on this one? I will go into those fillers. Excellent. This is a trophy winning piece of deception here. And in all our years, we haven't had statements this good, with the one exception being that horrible woman in Houston. I can't remember her name with the multiple shoulder shrug lady. Oh, yeah. Teresa Balboa. Teresa Balboa. So there's almost I was watching this this morning. There's almost so much I don't even know how to how to start this or like what to say. I think the average golden retriever would pick up on most of the cues here. But I would just want to go into these filler words. I'm just going to read one sentence and emphasize a couple words. She says, I noticed him when he went real fast to turn, not turning to turn, and I looked up and happened to see the driver because that's who was coming around. You could take all those fillers out and the sentences concise. And this is just priceless to me. The filler words are the most I've ever seen in my life. And we are not just like YouTube experts. I've personally been doing this beyond the 30,000 hour mark before we even started our channel. And I think everybody else has probably hit that mark here too. And then she says, and then they hurry and I looked up again and they that's when they whipped and I was like weird and kind of looked down again because I'm getting about my business. And then they hurry and I looked up again and they that's when they whipped and I was like weird and kind of looked down again because I'm getting about my business. The next line was and he got out and the other guy squealed away real fast and he was already there before he was already there before. There's so much here that I don't even know how to even talk about this. I don't possess the capacity to break all this down. But here's a challenge for you. When you look at this clip again, try to see how many gestures you can spot that are actually timed with the speech. Almost all of these illustrators are mismatched and mistimed. And if this was an audition to do this, I think the director would say, hey, cut. Listen, okay, people talk like this sometimes and screw up this gesture timing when they're being deceptive, but no one on earth does it this bad. Let's do another take and do it a little bit less because that was a little over the top. Scott. I think after that first statement, it's almost like she's a cluster machine, a deception cluster machine because that's all she really does. She's got that shoulder scratch. She slaps the leg. She's got fading facts and she rubs her leg. She's leaning on that fist to her face and she's making that a barrier ring at the same time. You're right. It's unbelievable. It's like a contest to see who can do the most deception cues without getting laughed at by the interrogators or stopping and going, this is, you know, thinking they're being punked. And I think the detective on the right, yeah, for our right, the guy in the blue, I think she thinks he doesn't believe her because at this point, he must have a look on his face that he knows something's up because that's why I think she's burying like that because she's looking right at the other guy, but the other detective. Now, earlier, she was looking right at the guy in blue and she was talking to, as the other interrogator was talking to her, the other detective, she was answering, looking at him, but answering his question. The whole thing is just, it's like a snow glober. Some's been shaking up. It's just getting weird. I think there's so much in here. I've got you. You got my illustrator saying, oh yeah, at the end of the clip, it's where we hear her breathe in real deep. She is that she's doing that. And then she hits that lip compression one more time and then goes back to the fist to her neck. I don't know where to start either because there's so many, we could be here for four days. I went, Greg and I were talking earlier, I'd gone through and chopped a bunch of my stuff out because it just keeps going and going. It's ridiculous. Greg, what do you got? Yeah. So we got two or three people going here. The first one is she's comfortable going back to that. They whipped guys. I think it was Jody Arias used something I call anchor and redirect. I guarantee you that's what she's doing. I know something. I can use my hands. I can talk about it. I go back to they whipped around the curve and she says whipped around the curve about 92 times in this video. I'm exaggerating, but in this series of videos, it's a bunch of times people whipped around the curve and that that's her anchor. She redirects, she goes back to it. Just about that you, when you're arguing with this woman, you get into a lot of circular logic and anchor and redirect. It's a way of winning arguments that works for some people. It's primarily because you just get fed up and give up. But she's, when she's talking about whipping or egg illustrators or elbows are away again. And then my, what I put in my notes is she's Kaiser Soce. And you guys know who Kaiser Soce is? Yeah. Usual suspects who created the story by looking around the room and saying it's this and that and this. Of course, the guy looked like you. He had hair like you. Chase, he had hair just like you. Where'd you get the haircut? What do you call that? It gives me a chance not to have to create on the fly. I just look at you and say a lot like you. Well, okay. Well, hold on. What do you mean a lot like me? What color is this hair? You could go back and poke and prod, but she's taking advantage of it. And I think those are two of the biggest things she does. She's got stress here and I'm going to tell you my indicator of stress that I told you right in the beginning of this, I've used it in corporate America and in interrogation. When you teach interrogation or when you interrogate and you're in sustained interrogations, you'll see this kind of body, which it's not something we see every day is as a person feels stress, the trapezius muscles in your shoulders draw and your shoulders start to get narrower. And if you're wearing an open neck shirt, the side that's black will start to be smaller than the part in the beginning. Go back and look at this woman from video one and look at her now and look how much narrower her shoulders are. Like I said, when you come in to tell a story, it should be stress relieving. It shouldn't create stress. We're going to watch her shoulders get narrower and narrower as she goes as those trapezius. Now, for you, what I use this for in corporate and in my business gigs, I can walk up to a chase somebody who's in the business to talk to him. If I know him, I can say, that guy's stressed. Look at his shoulders. If I don't know him, I can watch over time and then you can get it out of that person, help them to relax and get out of that stress moment because you're not talking to a rational person when you get to that point. And I think you just pay attention or you'll be surprised how much you see this going on. I'll just leave it at that. There's a whole lot more going on here, but she's using whatever her environment is to create stories. She's anchoring and redirecting and we can see the stress building up. And we have a winner. The Island is huge. I wanted to look at the driver. Yeah. Yeah, because when he started to whip around, I, all I saw was like a dark dome, sorry, but short hair like you were short, maybe not quite as short, but it was dark and I was, and that's foreign in that neighborhood. It's all the same people. Were there windows open in their vehicle, you know? No, not that I saw. I remember. And so that's the only other person you saw in the vehicle that you can remember? Yeah, because I really wasn't looking for people. I just noticed him when he went real fast to turn and I looked up and I just happened to see the driver because that's who was coming around and didn't even see the other person until they whipped in front of my driveway and he got out. Because then I wasn't really, I wasn't just staring at him. When it first happened and I heard it and I saw it, I was like, it was just weird. And then they hurry and I looked up again and they, that's when they whipped and I was like, it's weird. And kind of looked down again because I'm getting about in my business and they didn't keep going. He got out and then the other guy squealed away real fast and he was already there before. So the guy squealed away before, before, well, you know, at what point did he get out? Did he squeal away? Well, with, with, in comparison with the other guy was doing. Right. As soon as he pulled around and I wasn't looking again, I looked back down to put, you know, to get ready to go and stuff and pulled around and I looked up again. The guys had shot out. When he pulled around, the guy like shot out and I looked down again and thought kind of strange. I don't even know if I thought it was strange, but it was weird. And so I looked up again as he was getting out and he squealed right off. The guy squealed right off. Like, hey, so we shut the door, but I don't even know because I wasn't looking at that. I could hear it and then and I was more looking at like, who's getting out of the car? You know, is it somebody I know because of right in front of my driveway? So, so that guy squeals away. He jumps in the passenger seat of the car. I know you described him as having a knife in one hand and something else in the other. Yeah. Well, he had popped in when he opened up the door and I was thinking, I don't even, I don't even know. He just was in there so fast, but I know he was jumbling something in this arm and had a knife in the other hand. And then he switched somehow. I don't know if he set his stuff down or dropped it. I don't know what he did, but he had put the knife in the other hand then. So, and that's when he put it up here. Okay, you're using your right hand. Is that, are you right or left hand? I'm right hand. Okay. Did you use your right hand because you're right handed or did you use your right hand because that's how you recall it went happened or? That's how I recall that it happened because he had something in his right hand when he first got in. And then the first few seconds I didn't see a knife or anything. I know he just had stuff, you know, and I was just like freaked out. And then all of a sudden he dropped stuff and then he had a knife. So I don't, I'm guessing right. Okay. So what if anything did he say? He said, you're going to take me to the bank and get Russ's money. We're going now. So get going type stuff. And he just kept yelling stuff like that at me. And so at this time, I still don't, I don't have it in gear or anything. Or I do have, no, I don't have it in gear. And I had put it in gear to go because I didn't know what to do. And then I, that's when I noticed he was looking back. I don't know what if he was looking because cars, I don't know what he was looking at, but he kept looking back and I noticed that. So I put it back in the gear and he said, get going right now. We're going to the bank. And then he looked back again like this and I hit his arm and I shot out the car. So when you say I put it back in the gear, you mean you put it back in part. My plan was to get out of the car somehow. So when he came up and approached you at the car door and got in here, the vehicle was in. All right, I'll go first on this one. So how's he going to open the door when he's got both hands full? He's got something in both hands, but he somehow he gets in, jumps in the car, opens the door up and gets in the car. And quite often on this channel, you hear, you'll, we'll hear someone describe a situation that they were in and they'll, before they talk about it, they've taken time to go through the story and figure out all, you know, and what we call in the true crime workshop, deconflict it and make sure everything sounds the way it should sound. So everything will sound true. But what she didn't do was go through the details. She thought about the story. She got the steps of the story right. But when somebody went in there and started asking her the details of each one of those steps, that's what happened. So what we're seeing, the gift we're being given here, and it is a gift, is we're watching somebody in real time deconflict a story as they make it up. These details that we're watching her lie and make it up as she goes. She's got the, she knows the step for each one of them, but she doesn't have the details inside that step. And we're getting to watch her make the stuff up as she goes at any time during this. One of these guys, and I'm sure it was tough not to do it, could have stopped and said, hang on just a minute, man. Let's talk about this and just cut that whole thing up, but they don't. I don't know why. I can understand why they're not looking at each other, because like in here, when we look at each other, sometimes we'll laugh. And I'm sure that's why that one is sitting this way and the other was trying to try not to make eye contact. So she did forget about those little things. And at any moment they could, that's what made this thing stressful for me to watch, because I knew it any minute they were going to, it was going to be on at that point. So now as an interrogator, it's important to listen to every word of the story that you're telling you. You got to listen to everything. And as they're telling you that story, you've got to make, you've got to create that picture of that little movie in your mind. That's why it should be odd that he jumps in the car with a handful of something in one hand and a knife in the other. You have to listen to everything they say and make a little, almost the movie out of it. You got to listen to the story itself. So let's talk about the knife. Her story changed right in the middle of it as she, she's de-conflicting on the fly. She realizes her description of the knife being in one hand and something, this dawns on her that this isn't right and sometimes she's trying to backpedal and fix all that. At first she said, he said some stuff in one hand and a knife in the other. Now she's gone on to, to not understand. That's when she starts adding stuff about how there's a lot going on. She starts adding time to the situation. So she doesn't, they don't understand how you could have two things in something in each hand and do that, but they don't say, I don't understand why you, how you could do it. They don't do that. That's so tough not to do that, especially if you're in that situation because you see it and you're thinking, I'm going to go in because there it is, but being patient and waiting, these guys are so patient. And if he puts a knife to her neck, he's got to be almost halfway over there. And when somebody jumps in your car, the, the first thing you're going to try to do is get away. When that door opens up and you see that your brain's going to go something's up, man. Your limbic system is going to pop on and you're going to be looking at the quote unquote attacker. So that's where all your focus is going to be. Then when you see a knife, you're going to start screaming and trying to get out. You're not going to be thinking during all this stuff. And she's remembering details that are odd for, for what happened when your, when your brain is under stress, when that, all that adrenaline hits your system and you're, you start going through the process of being attacked or running or trying to get away. You don't remember details because your brain won't let you. Your hippocampus doesn't collect information that way. It didn't collect it in the stream, it collects it in groups. So that's why people have these flashes of memory when horrible things have happened when they talk about those things. So when somebody jumps in your car with a knife, your focus goes to that knife and you're trying to get away. You're not thinking about how I'm going to get, how I'm going to get away from it. How I'm going to, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? We have a tool in the, in the troop crime workshop called the liars loop or a, uh, yeah, the liars loop. And it goes through every one of these steps of a lie, how it's created, what creates it and how you, how you de-conflict it and how you deliver it, the pitch. And then we show you how to destroy that, that lie. If these guys used three of those steps in there, this thing would have been over two videos ago. So I'll stop there. Just so much there. So I got animated. Greg, what do you got? Yeah. So maybe this is a residual from her knife attack is protecting her throat with her fist because she seems to do that pretty well. And you know, that's the only emotion we see whatsoever from this attack. Usually when somebody is going to attack you with a knife, you can have residual emotion. This is fairly recently after the attack as well from my understanding. I mean, this is police broader there. They say we haven't been to the scene yet, which means the scene is probably roped and all that kind of thing right now. But they're woefully low levels of detail. When she was talking about best buy on her dog, there's a boatload of details. Now she's talking about a guy attacking her. And I agree with you, Scott, our brain prioritizes targets and says, this is important. This is, and that's what we lay down. And we don't lay down memory the same way. So accessing it's different. But now she's got this neck well thing going on. She's not moving from it. Interestingly, and I should have mentioned in the last video, I've never seen anybody do the neck weld and illustrate with their other hand. That's an odd one for me. Really odd to see. Doesn't mean that anything else matters. Now she's illustrating again and her elbows are now rigidly attached to her side. It reminds me of like, you ever see one of these videos where they have a kid sitting and somebody's hands stuck through his sleeves and they're moving around? It looks like that. It's so ridiculous. Her hands are up like this. Mark, she's in the goofy plane is what I think we can call it. But whatever you would call it, I'll take from there. She disclaims, I don't know. When she's asked why she's using her right hand and whether it's because of the, it's the guy or her, she feels some relief and then she starts to come back to details again. So her brain is under stress. I think it's part of the reason we're seeing all of this. And she's not thinking. When she's talking about this shooting out of the car, there's a lip compression we associate with with old information or emotion. As this guy starts to, to a corrector about her carving in part versus putting gear, another lip compression that she does that weird to anybody else. You guys tell me what she's doing. She does that rock star kind of thing, whatever she's doing with her hand there, which is a new hand signal. We'll see more than one time going forward. But this, there's a whole lot going on here. And this every time that she leans forward and this guy says something, gives her an out and she starts validating whatever he says. She's losing all the detail that we associate with her normal storytelling. So again, a red flag when things deviate dramatically from the other piece, Scott, I think you're dead on. She prepared, she deconflicted, but she was not ready for the questions. And these are simple questions. So she's not necessarily altogether there. You would think about what kind of car, what do you do? What do you have in his hand? He had a knife. Which hand was his knife in? Because I would then want to ask a ton of questions around that. And they don't follow up. And what we talk about is putting somebody from deconflict to pitch. So they have to deconflict what you attack to pitch to defend the line. And then you force them into deconflict. Again, if you can get them into that circle, the lie is gone. There's no way out of it because they're going to cascade and they're going to burn resource. And Mark, you talk about a lot of times processor speed and resource, they're going to run out of resource to be able to defend that lie. And they're going to stop having things in their head to use and start using the environment. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I'm just going to go on that. Imagine anyone you've ever talked to in your life has been through something traumatic. He had popped in. That's how she describes the attacker coming into her car. A violent assailant with a knife to her neck. Oh, he popped in. And she says, when he opened up the door, she's narrating that story using his POV. She's narrating the door for him instead of looking over and seeing the door being opened. That's the mistake a lot of people make. They rehearse a story instead of the questions that might be asked about that story. So it's a monologue instead of a dialogue that they rehearse. Every element of a fabricated story appears here. There's details about every aspect of this thing, except for the knife to the neck. The one part truthful people would recall with vivid, pure emotion. And here's what she recalls about a bad guy getting into her car. Quote, that's when he put it up here. End quote. Her recalling what he says using these phrases like type of stuff. And he just kept yelling stuff like that at me. This is so bad. People who undergo this kind of situation feel things. They talk about those feelings. You can see these feelings on their face. They also will show fear on their bodies during times like this. And this sounds like a second grader made up a story about being yelled at and forgot to include details until somebody asked them to. So to follow along with Scott, what you were talking about with the brain, when you hear explanations like this that detail every moment of the situation and then later insert motive and thought processes behind every action, there's a very good chance that you're hearing BS. So when we face a threat, stress hormones, adrenaline, cortisol flood our systems. And these hormones really screw up the hippocampus processing center that Scott just talked about and making it harder to form and consolidate those new memories like Scott was saying, they're kind of scattered. And on top of that, the strong emotions that we can feel during a traumatic event make us hyper focused on survival and narrow our attention down to making making that even tougher for memories to form. And that's why we sometimes can't remember all the details. And it's called traumatic or dissociative amnesia. And that's typically what happens. But the one thing you'll see is emotion, even if the memory is not there, the emotion is definitely there with the memories that they can recall. That was the longest I've gone in a long time. Mark, what do you get? Yeah. So legs cross again and go back. So we know that whatever the questions are around here are putting her under way more pressure. And this really for me is a story about what she doesn't know. Look, just as everybody said, when you're in those life and death situations, what is often likely to happen is you may not remember details, but you will have a strong feeling when I've been in life and death situations, I can remember the feeling that went across me. Yeah, some some details are lost, but some details aren't lost. There are things that I remember really, really clearly. Well, she says, I don't even know at least five times. I don't know what several times I do and I don't I do and I don't so she vacillates between the two. And as this is all happening, gravity is taking effect on her. She's sinking down, she's sinking down. She does go for the barrier again to the means that her head won't won't fall to the table. But we have seen I think you play at the start of this, Scott, we do see her with her head actually on the table. So gravity takes effect completely during this. Here's what I'd say about about video five, it's only taken as five videos. And I would say she is collapsing at this point. The whole story is collapsing around us. She's collapsing. She has no backbone left. There's no backbone to the story anymore. There's nothing. There's no scaffold to support this. And we're seeing that in her behavior and her body language. That's all I got on that one. So. So that's wheels away. You've got jumps in the past to see the car. I know you described him as having a knife in one hand and something else in the other. Yeah. Well, he had popped in when he opened up the door and I don't know what I was thinking. I don't even I don't even know. He just was in there so fast. But I know he was jumbling something in this arm and had a knife in the other hand. And then he switched somehow. I don't know if he said stepped out or dropped. I don't know what he did, but he had put the knife in the other hand then. So. And that's when he put it up here. You're using your right hand. Is that are you right or left hand? I'm right hand. Did you use your right hand because you're right handed or did you use your right hand because that's how you recall it went happened or that's how I recall that it happened because he had something in his right hand when he first got in and then the first few seconds I didn't see a knife or anything. I know he just had stuff, you know, and I was just like freaked out and then all of a sudden he dropped stuff and then he had a knife. So I don't I'm guessing right. Okay. So what if anything did he say? He said you're going to take me to the bank and get Russ's money. We're going now. So we'll get going type stuff. And he just kept yelling stuff like that at me. And so at this time, I still don't I don't have it in gear or anything or I do have it. No, I don't have it in gear. And I had put it in gear to go because I didn't know what to do. And then I that's when I noticed he was looking back. I don't know what if he was looking because cars I don't know what he was looking at but he kept looking back and I noticed that so I put it back in the gear and he said get going right now we're going to the bank. And then he looked back again like this and I hit his arm and I shot out the car. So when you say I put it back in the gear, you mean you put it back in park. My plan was to get out of the car somehow. So when he came up and approached you at the car door and got in your vehicle was in okay so you described the the the driver of the vehicle to the best you know to the best ability what you saw. Describe the guy that got in the vehicle with you. The guy you've got in with me here on shorts, here on blue shorts, shortish hair, sandy blonde. And now forgive me I have not I did not go in the scene I haven't been seen. So is he a white male, black male, Hispanic male? He's white male. He's taller than me. He had blue gym shorts on and some sort of t-shirt and sandy blonde hair. And I want to say his eyes were blue but I'm not sure. It's not like they were like a bright blue or anything like that. Not noticeable. But I want to say they were light colored eyes. They weren't brown. Okay. I don't think it could be wrong. It really wasn't looking at his face. Notice anything. It smells? He didn't smell. The only thing I noticed was is he's yelling and getting more and more upset. He was slurring his words. I thought he was drunk. I didn't smell anything at all. But he did have I don't know what he had with him but he kept like the more he kept repeating himself he was getting all excited and he was I thought he was drunk or in drugs or something like that because I couldn't understand him at the time. Right. He was yelling crap I couldn't even understand. So he was slurring his words but he didn't really smell of anything at all. I didn't smell anything. Was he sweaty? Was he dirty? Was he clean? Well he didn't stink. Okay. Was he? I didn't notice like greasy hair like a homeless person or anything like that. He just looked like a normal person to me. Okay. I mean he wasn't clean cut like like you guys like you're groomed. But he wasn't dirty because I didn't smell anything or see like nasty hair. What age? About what age would you put it in? I don't know. Late 30s? All right. Chase what do you got? As she is describing this entire scene the man she's describing has been killed by her and the police are aware of the appearance of this guy. They know what he looks like and she's describing only the scene in the vehicle and how he appeared in her vehicle. Here's what you might see from an innocent person. Why do I need to describe him? His body is there. You can go take a look. They're taking pictures. You've all seen him. I don't remember the details. There's no suspect to go look for. You don't have to search for anybody. The guy's dead and the police have already seen him. Guilty people want so badly to appear helpful and cooperative that they will behave in ways that are counterintuitive and almost idiotic when they're being questioned. Let's quickly I think talk about how guilty people act when they're being questioned. You've probably seen this on TV. A person gets questioned and suddenly they're super helpful answering every question in detail just like an open book. But here's the twist. Sometimes this over helpfulness can be a major sign of guilt and when guilty people are being questioned they're on high alert and stress levels are also super high and they know what they've done and they obviously don't want to get caught and they try extra hard to look innocent and sometimes this results and then behaving in ways that seem like you're seeing in this video. So cognitive dissonance also plays a big role here knowing she's guilty but also wanting to believe in her heart that she's a good person. Her being super cooperative helps to alleviate these feelings of guilt and she's also hyper aware of her behavior. So she sticks to answering only what's asked instead of the big emotional events. She's just sticking to those things. Innocent people tend to be more open and they're also more likely to talk about how they felt during an incident, how they felt during an incident. And then we have societal norms as the last piece here. We're taught to be cooperative and helpful especially around police officers so guilty people will amp these behaviors up to appear as normal as possible which makes it look weird like you're seeing here. Greg? Yeah I don't think you have to even have us tell you what Chase just said because every one of you has been a child who did something wrong and got caught for it and then you try to suck up your parents to avoid punishment. That's human nature 101. What we're seeing though when a person does that overly polite behavior Chase is dead on. They're trying to take away the punishment somehow or make that person trust them enough to believe what they're saying. I agree but I think you don't have to have us tell you that because you've been a child and you know you did something stupid once and tried to suck up to prevent that from happening. And that overly polite behavior is you could just call it sucking up just as good. And she's a master of sucking up. She goes out of her way right here. She already said he looked kind of like you. Here she goes. Is this the one? Yeah this is the one where she does the making sure that the guy oh yeah he's not as groomed as you and that kind of thing. She adapts when the first when the first question starts to get more detailed about what happened with the guy. She does a batter on deck. That's what I refer to as rubbing your thighs with both hands or with one hand. And we see batters do that when they're getting ready to stand up and swing a bat in baseball. That's the reason we call it batter on deck. She loses detail earlier but in here now she's back to a level of detail that we heard in her dog pig story because she saw this guy. She knew who this guy was. She saw his face so she can talk to detail and chase some of you. She's just answering questions but these are easy questions for her. And then she goes into this whole here's where everything changes. She goes he's yelling crap I couldn't understand. I understand this guy was in an auto accident that caused him disability mentally and physically. And then we see a cluster. She's the queen of clusters. She crosses her primary sex organs. We always say men protect their groin put their hand in front of their groin and they call that the fig leaf. I call this the egg protector. You put your arm across your ovaries. A woman does that's primary sex organs. It's about preventing losing your ability to reproduce as a species. Her brow goes up. There's Scott. This is request for approval. This is not important part of the story. This is I need you to believe me please do. Followed by lip compression holding information bag or emotion. She turtles. She drops and then Mark I'm going to steal one of yours. I see her adapt but more importantly she adapts at the elbow and protects that joint. This is powerful. I'm also going to tell you we talk all the time about a single shoulder shrug meaning lack of certainty. This is not a negative thing. This is a positive example of that. She does uncertainty when she raises her shoulder when she's saying I don't know what the smell was and you can see she disproves and pushes her lips out like I just don't know if he had a smell then she here's where she goes and she does the suck up. She's got to compliment these officers. You guys are groomed. He went like you. That's likely a tool in her kit and then the discomfort comes back and she closes her little robe or her clothes up again to hide whatever's going on here or to make her more comfortable. That's a barrier. Scott what do you got? All right when somebody jumps in your car with a knife you will never remember their eye color. They're asking her questions that she shouldn't remember so they're not going to ask you about I mean you're they're not going to ask you that. Well they shouldn't ask you that in real life. It was somebody talking to you. So when they ask her that she shouldn't remember their eye color. You're not looking at their eyes. Your blood pressure is jacked. Your heart rate is jacked and you've just had an adrenaline dump like you've never had before and every your limbic system is on fire and everything is just at a heightened sense. You're not going to remember any of that and she's got details of the pants. She's got details of the t-shirts. She's got all these details. How many times we talk to somebody where something horrific has happened. Something terrible and in that seven to 12 second to 30 second at the most situation they can give you details like what they were wearing. The person was they don't remember what they were wearing most of the time. So there's no way she'd be able to remember those details during all that. And again I commend these guys for not laughing in her face. Like you said Greg this is the queen of clusters. This is a cluster queen. I don't know what we're going to call her. I'm sure Mark will put it on a cup or a shirt. So we'll find out what her name is once Mark gets finished naming her. Mark what do you got? Yeah so it feels to me like she is really overachieving in all of this you know overregging it over emphasizing everything having details that she shouldn't have overachieving. There is one actor in Hollywood who is a massive overachiever and that is Jim Carrey always does way more than you probably should in any kind of situation. He knows it all the actors around him know it. There is Stephanie Lazarus who we talked about a few episodes back who kind of reproduces Carrey's Grinch type facial gestures. And in this particular situation our subject here does exactly the same. Take a look when she's asked what age would you put him in? What age would you put him in? And I will say she grinches at the end of that because there are four face contortions that go on as she tries to overachieve her thinking around this. Look either you can put forward the age or you can't put forward the age but you don't need to act out just how big you're thinking about it and she does huge dramatic effort to let us know just how engaged she is in this situation. At the end of that she goes back to the Supersternal Notch there and then she does venting as well around her t-shirt and that is when you actually try and let some of the hot air escape from there as well. Sometimes people will vent by pulling out their jackets sometimes they'll pull down here but in this case the t-shirt is vented overachiever and she is definitely on the back foot in this situation right now. So you described the the driver of the vehicle to the best you know to the best you're building what you saw. Describe the guy that got in the vehicle with you. The guy you got in with me he had shorts, he had blue shorts, shortish hair, sandy blonde. And now forgive me I have not I did not go in the scene I haven't been in the scene so is he a white male, black male, Hispanic male? He's white male who's taller than me. He had blue gym shorts on and some sort of t-shirt and sandy blonde hair and I want to say his eyes were blue but I'm not sure it's not like they were like a bright blue or anything like that noticeable but I want to say they were like colored eyes they weren't brown I don't think it could be wrong it really wasn't looking at his face. Notice anything it smells? He didn't know he didn't smell the only thing I noticed was is he's yelling and getting more and more upset he was slurring his words I thought he was drunk they didn't smell anything at all but he did have I don't know what he had with him but he kept like the more he kept repeating himself he was getting all excited and he was I thought he was drunk or drugs or something like that because I couldn't understand him half the time he was yelling crap I couldn't even understand him. So he was slurring his words but he didn't really smell of anything at all. Was he sweaty? Was he dirty? Was he clean? Well he didn't stink. Was he? I didn't notice like greasy hair like a homeless person or anything like that. He just looked like a normal person to me. I mean he wasn't clean cut like like you guys like you're brown but he wasn't dirty because I didn't smell anything or see like nasty hair or anything. What age about what age would you put him in? I don't know. Late 30s? Of course it begs the question I don't know that we just asked you straight have you ever seen this guy before? No. Don't know him. He doesn't look like somebody you've seen somewhere before with somebody else. I mean as you as you remember back you know as you picture him in your mind there is you cannot make any link between this guy and you. I wasn't looking directly at his face I was trying not to look at him. I do know when he did get in and there was something familiar about him but I don't know him so I don't know if I I don't know. He seemed familiar like I should know him but I do not know him. If you're giving me a code of code masses do you have I mean say he's an occasional male but do you do you have any type of accident that was noticeable to you? I didn't know because he was bold he was bumbling slurring and at first I didn't really notice anything but like he was getting so excited and stuff he as he was yelling at me I mean it was like he was drunk I mean he was left I literally like his tongue was this thick I didn't know what was going on I figured he was on something I'll call her something I didn't know I knew something was not right because as he was getting excited it was getting worse. The slurring was getting worse? Yes. The stumbling on his nose. Yeah I couldn't hardly understand what he was saying I could pick out like certain words but he said one phrase inside made no sense he said you know I think he said it out in the car or out in the car too something about killing my wife something and I'm like I didn't say anything but it was weird his wording. He said it out in the car? He said it out in the car yelling at me and when he was saying he was going to kill me. All right Chase what do you got? You all are going to cover some body language here so I'll cover something else. I'm going to show you how guilty people reveal themselves in interviews and this is the most common error I think I've ever seen them make in all of our history. They have a piece of information that makes them feel guilt and it's a piece of information that will be comfortable and fine for an innocent person to say but for a guilty person to say it it's a phraser sentence that just just ramps up their anxiety internally and by associating their thoughts with guilt and here's how it happens they know the statements coming up that they're going to have to say so they build a ramp to the statement instead of just saying it outright they build this little ramp so that they feel better about saying the phrase and they'll use the language to set the stage for the anxiety inducing statement. Innocent people do not do this and you can hear the ramp she says yeah yeah I couldn't hardly understand what he was saying and could pick out like certain words but he said one phrase inside makes no sense he said you know I think he said it out in the garage or out in the car too something about killing my wife then I'm going to pass this to Scott because I think this is the biggest fading facts moment in behavioral history got it in there Scott I believe you are correct I'll just I'll leave it there you nailed it no no need for me to hit it now quite often when a person is filling with their neck or a necklace of goof around up here there it's you can look at that as the same thing as hitting that superstar launch or a neck touch so we've got that going on so that it's the same as that stress and something's really bothering there's an issue here they start when he starts asking her about whether she knows a guy or not she got pretty quiet at that point every other thing she's got an answer for it because she's been going through all those things giving details and making details up and stuff so she gets mighty quiet when it comes up to something she knows and that she knows she shouldn't know she gets mighty quiet there and what we're seeing at this point is she's starting to slow down she's starting to crash she's starting to get gassed because she her cadence slows down it changes her volume is getting lower everything's changed at this point she's getting a little quite she's a little bit shorter than she was earlier and she's it's not just from being interrogated but it's it's her brain is getting tired her mind is tired from thinking up all these tiny little details she's having to come up with and try to look like everything's okay so that that that's really important here to see what what's happening because normally you get tired after a while you know after you're sitting there 45 minutes an hour you start slowing down but in this case she's tired and her her brain is tired that fist to chin thing and to her neck that's part of her baseline now that's one of the things we're seeing and the leg rub is as well we're seeing these things over and over and over again so when you see her you think okay well shoot at this point things have changed so much that's part of her baseline what i'm looking for at this point is are our cues of being honest there's so many deception cues you have to get like a little what is squeegee and get them out of the way and start looking for little spots of being honest and there i haven't really seen any yet this is this is i think this is one of the greatest ones we've ever done for someone who wants to learn about what deception looks like you're sitting right in the middle of it when you watch this mark what do you got yep can you do a little education on what fading facts are how they can spot it that kind of thing yeah so okay so when someone you ask someone a question and they're being deceptive about it they may open up like she does quite often is being kind of loud and and talking about it but as they get closer to the end and their brain saying dude you're lying you shouldn't be doing this then they start to get quieter at the end of the when they start to finish up the sentence and it'll happen over and over again you'll ask them whatever another question i'll say well this that and that happened and i'm pretty sure that that wouldn't happen as often as it would and they'll back up usually just a little bit about that much not a whole bunch but they'll back up a little bit as they're doing that not every time but most of the time so listen for the volume of when they talk it starts going down toward the end doesn't necessarily mean they're being they're lying to you there are no absolutes as we are all the time preaching but that's that's part of a cluster so you want to once you hear that you go oh wait let's need to start paying attention then see if you can find some other things going on in that person talking that let you know that this might be uh something deceptive you're listening to at this one how's that chase you think fabulous mark yeah so the important thing about fading facts is that the volume is incongruent it doesn't fit because you would expect by the time this important fact comes you know this major element this important thing that's the thing that should have the stress on that's the thing that the volume should ramp up on and so when it fades at the end you kind of think hang on that's odd that that doesn't sit right it's incongruent here's another thing that's incongruent with the tonality so she's asked if she knows this person and she goes no that's good i mean that's good a downward intonation on that no that's that's command tonality that's very definitive and then she says no again and you'd expect her to go no no and if she went no no i'd be okay fine sounds really good but she goes no no well which one is it i mean they both know but one was very definitive and the other left room for possibility so which one is it does she definitively not know this person or is there possibility that she does well you know it can't really be both and she continues with this idea there was something familiar she says i don't know him but i do know him well well so you more likely know him i mean it's more likely the positive isn't it it's more likely that if you're gonna you're gonna entertain the possibility of the positive then it's most likely the positive and she says something was not right well yeah for sure something is not right here there's a lot of incongruity here um you know what if i was trying to lie with this one here's the way i'd go is is the the big thing is that somebody's trying to kill her okay this is the the the big idea here is somebody has a weapon and they have said that they're gonna kill her she says you know kill me okay open with that like do it like a bond film like open with the action open with that and and just as you were saying chase not only does she kind of ramp up to this whole thing but she's ramping up to it over video after video that after video rather than look she's there being interviewed by the police there was somebody trying to kill her okay that's the thing to start with if if it number one if it were true because you would be upset in my mind you would be obsessed with that because your life has been threatened not only by a weapon but verbally as well the two things are congruent well none of this is making sense anymore uh who we got left greg yeah greg will you go yeah yeah while we say there are no single indicators of deception i can tell you there are some pretty good indicators of and this is one of them and it's going to be very clear when you ask a person did they do something and they say no well maybe maybe no or um well i'm not sure or i couldn't see that she does every one of those things guys this woman is doing i'm calling graduated degrees of denial if you deny something you're done i know i didn't do it i didn't do it unless it was Tuesday oh unless it was tuesday and i was wearing a smock i mean come on you just keep adding qualifiers to something you know this person's not telling you truth let's let's talk a little bit about body language because she starts off by grabbing the top of her clothes again and she's doing an adapter and a barrier because she's playing with the clothes something's up you ever seen this guy before first time her blink rate goes up she's milling at her jaw now with her with her shoulder and with her with her fist and she's moving her thumb she's adapting with her thumb we haven't seen that yet i don't know what she's going to do next start spinning her head around or something as they're as we go into there and then as she does before she does the actual denial she breaks eye contact and drops her eyes down into her left into internal voice then when i ask you when you say there's any chance you know this guy she conditions a question she disclaims knowing them or disclaims knowledge she avoids the concept of having any eye contact even claims lack of sensory memory meaning i couldn't see him because things were there but you seem familiar come on i mean i'm just going to stop right there and leave you with us any gas lighter is going to be a master of back peddling disclaiming giving no certain answer establishing plausible deniability so that later when you say you said they go no i didn't say that i said this that's what we're seeing graduated degrees of denial and that is a great great indicator when somebody should be saying no that they're lying to you and of course it begs the question i don't know that we just ask you straight have you ever seen this guy before no don't know him um he doesn't look like somebody you've seen somewhere before with somebody else i mean as you as you remember back you know as you picture him in your mind um there is you cannot make any link between this guy and and you now i mean i wasn't looking directly at his face i was trying not to look at him i do know when he did get in and there was something familiar about him but i don't know him so i don't know if i i don't know he seemed familiar like i should know him but i do not know him forgive me if the code of code masses did he have i mean so he's an occasional but did he have any type of accident that was noticeable to you i didn't know because he was bold he was bumbling slurring and at first i didn't really notice anything but like he was getting so excited and stuff he as he was yelling at me i mean it was like he was drunk i mean he was left i literally like this time was this thing i didn't know what was going on i figured he was on something or something i didn't know i knew something was not right because as he was getting excited it was getting worse the slurring was getting worse the stumbling yeah yeah i couldn't hardly understand what he was saying i could pick out like certain words but he said one phrase inside made no sense he said you know i think he said it out in the garage or out in the car too something about killing my wife something and i'm like i didn't say anything but it was weird is it wording he said it out in the car he said it out in the car yelling at me and when he was saying he was going to kill me so what are the things of the things that you could understand him say what are the things that he said to you he well first it was kind of clear in the car because he wanted me to go to the bank to get Russ's money and how did he say he said he said some curse words and then he said we're going we can say those yeah let me just be tell us what he said okay well i couldn't understand but he said when he first got in and he had i was i think i was yelling at him i don't even remember i think i was like who are you get out of my car blah blah blah and he was like bitch we're going to the bank and i'm like then my mind just starts swirling because i'm like going to the bank this is so freaking weird and i'm like am i going to the bank with you get out of my car and he goes bitch you're going to the bank we're getting Russ's money and and he started getting all agitated and excited and that's when i really he was yelling things i wasn't listening because i was forming how the hell i was going to get out of the car so he was yammering crap couldn't really understand him at that point and my thought was to get the the knife away and get the heck out of the car that's all i was thinking about at that point what he was saying i don't know as i ran into the garage he ran after me i heard the car door shut and he was yammering stuff again about killing me again my focus was to get in the house i know i had my phone in my pocket i was trying to dial 911 i think i did it three times before it went through on my cell phone but then i was inside and he was trying to get the door i was trying to hold the door i couldn't get it locked in and i was trying to get 911 on the phone and he was saying stuff and then the door flew he got in it flew open and i ran into the bedroom he was yelling stuff and as i was going in the bedroom something again about killing my wife and then stevie me and stevie you're going to kill your wife and so i don't know who that is i don't know a steven or a stevie or a steve i don't know what he was talking about he was so then so but it was really hard it's like his sentences weren't formed by then and so none of it made any sense but he did keep saying get in the car i ran in the bedroom i tried to you know i shut that door i was trying to get it locked wouldn't lash gotta put on the door and um i got my gun turned around got my gun i'd stand right there and he was pounding on the door and once it flew open that's when i shot him and i just kept shooting him and he just kept standing there how many times would you say you pulled the trigger i unloaded the hook um so you pulled the trigger until it stopped fire i just kept pulling until it stopped oh yeah all right greg what do you got yeah so when we talk about liars loops we always say that people are deconflicting the story before they show up so they've created these details that they need to be part of their story and they think they're going to be important and she she brings up the door lock is broken and she's not even in the house yet she's not talking about being in the house but she talks about a door lock being broken you could call that a provocative statement trying to draw out something from the other person or simply feed for this deconflict before she gets to the point she does this unusual for her thing and she pushes her hair back over here i've always called that i'm just a girl it may be preparation it may be a way for a person to just get ready to go after somebody and attack them but then she goes into this batter up but that's the first time we've seen that move that specific move of exposing her ear so i would say either she's getting ready for something or she's trying to pray on you know some drive in in the guy but she's doing something different than she's done to now which means something then she does a batter up adapter again rubbing her thighs and her elbows are at her side as she's trying to move her hands so more the same there's one good piece of body language she does and that's disdain or contempt at formulating how it's going to get out of the car you would expect that person may feel like disdain because they're in a situation where they can't get out but then she rolls right into this practice story and if you don't think it's a practice story just listen to the cadence shift go from where she was to to do to do just got you call it loping to do to do to do all prepped and then as she goes into it she's she talks about running in that garage you can't miss the change in cadence and she goes to full-blown storyteller except her elbows are still at her side and she's still got the little t-rex arms her hands go to her lap as she's adapting as she's anyway i'll just leave it at that because there's just such an anomaly that we know that when she's talking about a layout of her neighborhood her hands are all up here and when she's talking about what happened her elbows are down at her side and her hands are moved mark what are we going to call that plane the the tyrannosaurus rex plane that's right the t-rex plane okay mark what do you got yeah um so look again greg to your point i think she's now that that what i would call a faint move whereby she's she's showing um she's showing uh that that she she is she's showing power essentially and hoping you'll notice that piece of power and not see the power that's coming up which she's she's about to describe the aggressive act essentially the shooting and so it's what i might call a faint gesture to distract you from the aggression that's about to come up which i think she's quite pleased about and and quite definitive about because we do get when she's talking about the aggression the shooting very clear downward intonation at the end of each unit of action and based on that i would say that within those units of action that she's talking about in the shooting those are most like those most likely happened as she's saying uh as she as she's describing them um in fact in fact all i have here underlined is likely she shot him likely she shot him so the the idea of her shooting this person is in my mind the most truthful thing that we've had from her because there's the most strong downward intonation at the end of each unit of of action i think it's a fairly concise description of what uh went on there now the rest of it you know stuff is going on there's this 911 phone thing where there's a lot of lip retraction as well uh i don't think um stuff went on in the way that she feels she's describing it went on in that area but the shooting uh yeah that definitely happened and we've got a body uh to prove it so you know how good am i in in pre-empting that uh chase what have you got on this one yeah i agree with you i didn't write uh likely shooting so yeah but in just inside of this one clip that we watched here there is a two hour long course on deception and lying and probably more and i have no idea just where to start here and instead of breaking the whole thing down i'm just going to give you a tool that you can use when the clip comes back on your screen here on your phone your ipad or your tv if someone's repeating a story exactly the same way every time that could suggest it's been rehearsed genuine memories usually have a bit of variance to them because we recall different aspects at different times and when somebody recalls a traumatic event we'd expect some kind of emotional response and this is because these memories are usually tied to strong emotions we're not seeing any of that here one more thing to keep in uh in mind to keep an eye on here there's somebody's telling a story that seems perfectly chronological or overly polished real memories especially traumatic ones tend to be a bit messy and fragmented that's also how they come out in situations like this one if you watch this clip again on mute on mute you're going to see the body language an emotional expression of a woman uh in a three-minute argument she had with her eight-year-old about why they couldn't have a sleepover on a school night that's the body language you'll see and if you close your eyes and just listen to it you'll hear the words of a middle school kid reading a script for the first time about a home break in which was written by an elementary school kid greg what do you got well it's me scott sorry all right well as she's talking about how he's used all these cuss words and he's hollering at her and swinging around a knife and stuff she looks at this from a third person's perspective as this is going on and goes and she says she's forming a plan just how to get out of there she looks at the camera she's rubbing her leg she scratches her face to adapt and these are again just great clusters of stuff going on when she's talking about forming a plan to get out you're not thinking of you're not forming a plan you can't form a plan in there you're trying to to make sure you don't get killed that's what's that's what's on your mind you don't want to get you don't want to get shot or stabbed or that person's doing now all of a sudden she's out of the car she's dialing 911 and she's and she remembers that she's tried to dial it three times then all of a sudden she when she's out of the car she's in the house then she's holding the door and trying to call 911 she's trying not to let him in the house and she's and she's doing leaves and she says and then one of greg's favorites little phrase people used to create time she's in the car and then she's in the house trying to dial 911 while she's pushing on the door trying to keep this guy out right keep in mind she's going to go get a gun here in a minute so that would be the first thing she would do she'd run to the house slam it and then run to wherever the gun was that's what you would do that would be the first thing on your mind as you're screaming bloody murder as you go through that um then she's got um but like I said lots of and thens and then she gets timed oh another thing is she's had time once she got out of the car she remembered to take her keys she went to the house unlocked the door then went in all the whole time trying to dial 911 think about that and this guy if she opened the door he's going to open the door too he's going to be out just as quick as she is then he may be faster than her you know think about that well he's a little bit slower he's going to be on top of her as she's trying the the great horror show thing where somebody gets the house they're trying or the apartment they're trying to get the key in the door that would be going on never says that once she leaves her doors unlocked where's the dog where's this dog that she had earlier and he's playing you know you think he'd be flipping out right now trying to bite this guy no help from the dog the whole thing just stinks man it's great for us it's great if you don't know anything about or you're just learning about deception and interrogation this is great that I mean this is really really good stuff here all right we good yeah the island is few so what are the things of the things that you could understand him say what are the things that he said to you he well first it was kind of clear in the car because he wanted me to go to the bank to get Russ's money and how did he say that he said he said some curse words and then he said we're going we can say this yeah let me just be tell us what he said okay well I couldn't understand but he said when he first got in and he had I was I think I was yelling at him I don't remember I think I was like who are you get out of my car blah blah blah and he was like bitch we're going to the bank and I'm like then my mind just starts swirling because I'm like going to the bank this is so freaking weird and I'm like am I going to the bank with you get out of my car and he goes bitch you're going to the bank we're getting Russ's money and he started getting all agitated and excited and that's when I really he was yelling things I wasn't listening because I was forming how the hell I was going to get out of the car so he was yammering crap couldn't really understand him at that point and my thought was to get the the knife away and get the heck out of the car that's all I was thinking about that point what he was saying I don't know as I ran into the garage he ran after me I heard the car door shut and he was yammering stuff again about killing me again my focus was to get in the house I know I had my phone in my pocket I was trying to dial 911 I think I did it three times before it went through my cell phone but then I was inside and he was trying to get the door I was trying to hold the door I couldn't get it locked then and I was trying to get 911 on the phone and he was saying stuff and then the door flew he got in it flew open and I ran into the bedroom he was yelling stuff and as I was going in the bedroom something again about killing my wife and then Stevie me and Stevie you're going to kill your wife and so I don't know who that is I don't know a Steven or a Stevie or a Steve I don't know what he was talking about he was so then so but it was really hard it's like his sentences weren't formed by them and so none of it made any sense but he did keep saying get in the car I ran in the bedroom I tried to you know I shut that door I was trying to get it locked wouldn't last gotta put on the door and I got my gun turned around got my gun I stand right there and he was pounding on the door and once it flew open that's when I shot him and I just kept shooting him and he just kept standing there how many times would you say you pulled the turn I unloaded the hook um so you pulled the turn until it stopped fire I just kept pulling until it stopped so as he was pushing on the door and I'm trying to down 911 and hold him hoping he'd get tired of it and leave and he didn't I was just holding trying to keep him from coming in as he pushed the door open I ran right in here my nightstand I shut the door ran to the nightstand came back around here as he was pounding on the door door flew open I was probably standing anywhere like here as it flew open he's right there and just started shooting him walking out towards him shooting okay so you just said like he's standing there are we that close in approximately oh yeah yeah okay yeah um ask a couple questions so when you let me say you came he came in through here correct when you came in through here and you got through and you said you held him off for a bit were you able to shut the door yeah or was it a struggle over the door yeah it was a struggle over the door and me trying to call 911 at the same time yeah because he was right behind me so I shut the door and I couldn't get it locked and I was reaching for my phone and I dialed 911 when your phone kept in your pocket you have a clip okay yeah let's get him at that pocket so I was calling 911 and he's trying I'm just holding the door because I couldn't get it locked because it wasn't the little lash he kept pushing it you know I was coming over what type of latch is it well it just I mean the door knob okay like the knob like you need it closed to be able to lock it and it wasn't lock I think it's a little turn one okay so dead bolt or it's on the handle yeah it's like a little tiny piece of work actually yeah so I couldn't get that in dial 911 it was more important for me dial 911 in my head so I was trying to get some help and just a few seconds it was just a few seconds 911 came on I started yelling and he burst through the door so all right Greg what do you got yeah if I had one interrogation approach to use right in the middle of this conversation it would be I cannot believe that you just said that because everything about this person is absolute BS at this point I mean you could stop it right here for me it just gets more and more amusing she if you want to see what stress looks like for her look at her shoulders now they're very narrow she the stress is built up her shoulders are up like this she her head starting to shrink a little and she's gone to now she's using phrases to answer questions they're not complete sentences now I'm not talking about prepositions I'm not talking about pronouns I'm talking about they are phrases I haven't been the case up till now there's also a little disdain as she's talking about walking towards them shooting but there's no sorrow no emotion no anger anger at least would be there if a person just tried to kill you yesterday she I'll leave a couple of things off but look when our brain is under that kind of stress that causes our shoulders to draw it also takes away some cognitive ability it's why if you're at work and you feel that you need to get up and walk around and breathe a little bit and relax your body so your brain can get back to working Mark what do you got yeah look just as you said Scott before the physics just doesn't work around this story at all look I'm I'm I'm pretty big I got big upper body strength if I've got another male who's pushing against the door and with one hand I'm trying to stop that person coming in and lock the door at the same time and reach into my back pocket to get my phone out to dial 911 at the same time I've got to go over and get the gun which is in another it you can't do all of those things at the same time and not fail and what happens in the rest of the story is she doesn't fail at it it turns out that she manages to do this I just don't think it's physically possible that this could could happen she may well be incredibly strong but she isn't going to be that strong or adept with her body to be able to do that physical feet all those three things pretty much all in the same moment not possible as far as I can see but I'll read my book by Fenneman on physics and maybe maybe I missed out on some important elements of it uh chase what do you got on this one yeah I totally agree in this clip right here the the storytelling is off the charts here and here's every time she mentions how she is thinking because there's no mention or even a hint at how she's feeling she says I'm hoping he'd just get tired of it and leave it was important for me or more important for me to dial 911 in my head I was trying just to get some help and I think she's borrowing from stories that she's heard but I think the story that she's mostly borrowing from without even knowing it is the three little pigs I really think that that was underlying a lot of this and here's how she describes the actions of this perpetrator as he was pushing on the door as he pushed the door open as he was pounding on the door the door flew open all by itself I guess there's no perpetrator he's right there it was a struggle over the door which reminds us of somebody saying tussling whatever that guy's name was I can't remember yeah and then he bursts through the door it's interesting to note this total absence of explicit details about the perpetrator's actions here and this analysis that I did of this video was rooted in the statement validity assessment or sva which includes the cbca or criteria-based content analysis and it scored off the charts for being a deceptive statement here there's a lack of specificity trying to minimize or distance herself there's an absence of the perpetrator makes her feel less guilty and then repetition and incomplete sentences people are telling truthful account provide unique and varied varied details each time they recall an event Scott what do you got all right I agree with with you guys because now I got I've got a story that I think we're looking at as well she's the female John Wick think about that think about what's happened all she's done so far this is a movie scene man this is right out of one of those John Wick things where she's in the car and she's fending off this guy trying to stab her she gets out of the car she gets the door beforehand as she's dialing 911 gets the door slammed dial 911 push me when she talks about shooting she talks about she does this or she says no she does it wrong I think she does I think she cups it and she she says she's walking toward him while you while she's shooting come on man that's even her description of how she shot him says I didn't have the phone but she's shooting while she's on the phone you're gonna hear the 911 call you know when we get finished with this I'm gonna play that and you're gonna hear the way it sounds and going back to what Chase was saying earlier about how it sound like a third grader this thing sounds like a rehearsal if Mark was was doing some acting things said hey man will you I'm gonna play the person you're shooting will you do the talking part of it when you hear this think about that she's doing she's the ones just coming in to read the the script as he acts it out unbelievable it's horrible horrible so this this this didn't happen like this at all there's no way it did there's no way it did like Mark said this can't happen physics says no the eye witness is you so as he was pushing on the door and I'm trying to dial 911 and hold him but hoping he'd get tired of it and leave and he didn't I was just trying to keep him from coming in as he pushed the door open I ran right in here to my nightstand I shut the door ran to the nightstand came back around here as he was pounding on the door door flew open I was probably standing anywhere like here as it flew open he's right there and just start shooting I'm walking out towards him shooting okay so you just said like he's standing there are we that close in approximately oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so when you we say came he came in through here correct when you came in through here and you got through and you said you held him off for a bit were you able to shut the door yeah or was it a struggle over the door yeah it was a struggle over the door and me trying to call 911 at the same time yeah because he was right behind me so I shut the door and I couldn't get it locked and I was reaching for my phone and I dialed 911 when it was your phone kept in your pocket you have a clip okay yeah let's keep him in that pocket so I was calling 911 and he's trying I'm just holding the door because I couldn't get it locked because it wasn't the little latch he kept pushing it you know I was coming over what type of latch is it well just I mean the door now okay like the knob like you need to close to be able to lock it it wouldn't lock I think it's a little turn one okay so that bolt or it's on the handle yeah it's like a little tiny piece of work actually yeah so I couldn't get that in dial 911 it was more important for me to dial 911 in my head so I was trying to get some help and just a few seconds it was just a few seconds 911 came on I started yelling and he burst through the door so all right so you you grabbed the revolver mm-hmm and as soon as you grab it where's and you turn around where's he at at that point he's banging on the door banging on this door mm-hmm okay because I turned around grabbed it I didn't have I have a case there I had it sitting it's not zipped up or anything like that so in case that's not set correct okay so in case it's not actually I just reached in grabbed it turned around and where's your phone at this time um in my other hand okay all right because I'm still yelling yeah I hit him my hand the whole time okay yeah and I turned around to come this way and I was just waiting to see if he broke it which I knew he would because I couldn't lock it and I just stood there all right and it was just a couple seconds should where from one of these access I'm not sure it's so small in there you'll see there's not really anywhere to go I mean because the door is right there so I turned around reached in I grabbed it turned around and I just was waiting to see if he broke in or if he didn't get scared and run away and you say break into this door did he open the door break the door he didn't know I don't know if he opened it or if it popped open because it doesn't latch very well so I don't know if because his pounding opened it or he opened it I don't know it opened it flew open and I started shooting okay we're trying to understand yeah I'm just trying to remember some of these questions might seem like no I'm trying to be harsh in on my mind I'm trying to be rude it's just like and we just want to make sure we're clear on everything you fully understand my first thought was not only to get my gun but equal first thought was don't drop my phone because I want to be able to find me if he got me in the car let me in all right mark where you got yeah just one thing it's a total mess it's all a complete mess I just noticed that so she's trying to do some some mime for for phone I think she wants to do that but she invokes the god of metal exactly at some point and uh so I mean just her gestures are all or all and you know then that's not you don't mobile phones don't do Bakelite phones anymore and they certainly aren't the the evocation of the of the god of of rock and roll or heavy rock for sure so complete mess um also you've already said this Scott but I'll just say it again uh how are you holding the gun like that and your phone at the same time you've got to drop one of them something has to something has to go and so if it had really happened you'd say hey I dropped my phone I threw the phone I grabbed the gun I threw the phone on the bed you know you'd have an explanation for it she doesn't have it just doesn't work it's a complete mess unless somebody can tell me that that's actually possible uh Greg what do you got on this one I don't think her body language tells you it's actually possible because this is one fantastic deviation from baseline one of the things you notice look under the table and watch her feet her toes point together she turns into pigeon toad one of the things I learned a long time ago is if you're when you're in the military there are men and women in some units not in others but when you would see a young woman get in trouble young women especially get in trouble I would notice they're getting yelled at I mean chase you would probably second this being yelled at as part of a young enlisted person's career progress that's just part of growing up and I would notice young women would point their toes together so I would call that whatever you want to call it I call it pigeon toad submission she does that she turtles her arms are below the table for the first time as a second officer asks questions their arms are entirely below and she's turtling there's a big big baseline deviation if you want to see something more if you if he would have noticed that deviation you could probably go to push her even more and then she goes up on her tip toes and she talks about shooting that's entirely different from what we've seen to now she's up on the balls of her feet on her tip toes this is likely because this is what she's been waiting to talk about if you're going to de-conflict the story never mind the guy had a watermelon and some bricks and a knife how that guy got shot and killed is what a person's going to spend their time on because that's how you go to jail the guy having whatever he had in his hands is not pertinent but that's important and pertinent so we're seeing that as she rises on the balls of her feet she does that submission she knows this is the most risky and if we go back and we talk about liars there's a trigger there's fabrication those easy parts and then you do de-conflict in your head you get ready for what's coming well i shot a guy i'm going to figure that part out really really well then i go into pitch the guy goes well hold on a minute and attacks that now i'm going to defend it and the person hits those details and goes something's wrong there then i have to de-conflict it again pitch again and what we're seeing is a person in front of you preparing to de-conflict the second time because she's keenly aware that they're paying attention to her and this is if i've seen a massive deviation anywhere this is it this is probably the most powerful scott what do you got all right when he asked where the phone was she has to stop and think about it even and then with the gun even though the case was unzipped she sounds like she's turned down grabbed it you know turned down grabbed it and came back and was like man if it's if it's one of those cases it's a cloth case all those little things if it was zipped that's what it is so there's a flap that lays down on it you can't just stick your hand in there and get it you have to you have to lift it up or squish your hand around and then get it out and most likely the case is going to come with it if you don't hold the case down and pull it out so this whole thing has gone into the squatter as far as i'm concerned and if you look at these detectives look look how close to the table they are they can hardly stand it they're so excited they know they've got her they know they do they're at that point where they're not they're not playing with her but they're they're just getting as much as they possibly can from her at this point again let's talk about how she's holding the gun she's doing it wrong nobody you can't hold you can't do anything with two hands and have your phone too and start trying you could talk to siri and see if you know call 911 or whatever and that shit the police will be wrapping scott up shortly i gotta do this for it hangs up hang up hey but this is not an emergency i i accidentally called yes man thank you so much i'll leave the phone on just in case you want to call me back to make sure all right thank you bye bye modern problems there we go uh so i'll stop there uh chase where you go she's asked where her phone is she's just showed us a minute ago she used both hands to to fire the gun this is called the isosceles grip which i think went away in like 91 uh in in the military and maybe 2010 and police and a lot of police training so right here there's a lot of stuff going on here you guys covered a whole bunch but right of this she says she had it in her hand she's using two hands to hold the gun and she's done a okay job with narration so far which shows me she's capable of narrating correctly and when she's describing waiting to see if he broke in watch her hands they go into a little hold and they go down here but they're back into holding a gun position and her right thumb even comes up and mimics cocking that hammer back on the revolver and you can see it clear as day and i have not yet seen a single video of somebody who explains their cognitive reasoning and thought processes in an interview like this who was innocent or truthful not one not once in my life have i seen a video like this they explain their cognitive process all the way through greg you're muted you're muted we may get we may we may get to see scott explain his cognitive process yeah yeah explain it let's make sure i just make it sure everything's cool so yeah you don't want to get wrapped up and go for it oh no i said send somebody over i'll leave the back door unlocked so if you don't total in they're like oh no we won't be doing that let me do it there all right yeah good okay sorry the eye witness is you all right so you you grabbed the revolver and as soon as you grab it where's any turn around where's he at at that point he's banging on the door banging on this door okay because i turned around grabbed it i don't have i have a case there i have it sitting it's not zipped up or anything like that so in case that's not zipped correct okay so in a case of that i so i just reached in grabbed a turn around and where's your phone at this time in my other hand to my hand all right because i'm still yelling yeah i hit on my hand the whole time okay yeah and i turned around to come this way i was just waiting to see if he broke which i knew he would because i couldn't lock it and i just stood there all right and it was just a couple seconds should wear one of these i says i'm not sure it's so small in there you'll see there's not really anywhere to go i mean because the door is right there so i turned around reached in i grabbed it turned around and i just was waiting to see if he broke in or anything get scared and run away well and you say break into this door did he open the door break the door he didn't know i don't know if he opened it or if it popped open because it doesn't latch very well so i don't know if because his pounding opened it or he opened it i don't know it opened okay it flew open and i started shooting okay we're trying to understand yeah i'm just trying to remember some of these questions might seem like no i'm trying to get action in my mind i'm trying to be rude it's just like and we just want to make sure we're clear on everything totally understand it my first thought was not only to get my gun but equal first thought was don't drop my phone because i want to be able to find me if he got me in the car oh man so the first time you shot him would you say you're further than this away from him me and you maybe this far so okay from here to you the door opens out it opens into the bedroom okay so yeah yeah so if i was coming in your bedroom it opened this way towards me yes so i'm standing here and i'm one of these positions here in front of the door it swings open i'm standing there i'm ready and it swings open and we're just eye to eye and i just start shooting i'm walking forward because my first thought was to get past this door jam okay didn't even think about i'm shooting him hitting him i wasn't thinking about that i knew i had to get around this person and get back out somehow now what point did you fall do you remember i had shot quite a few times before you fell yeah okay quite a few times if you had to gust them in how many shots you think you fired i don't know i did all of them that was in there i think it was full do you know how many do you know how many rounds go in that i'm guessing i unloaded all of i think it was full but i don't know for sure but i think it was it did not same when i heard him i had that i heard six booms but so do you think you hit him all six times i did yeah because i i walked i walked as close to him as i could till he fell down did he say anything no when that door flew open he just looked at me and i just start shooting right away i mean he didn't even have time to respond i don't even know if he saw that i had that i don't know if he even knew what it was going to do when he did that because he was so heightened by that but when you start shooting at him but by the time you fired your you only thought you fired your first shot but until you left the residence did he say anything else do you verbalize anything else he never moved out before never moved i stepped i got my dog where was your dog at the whole thing i'm running around going next i didn't know what was going on all right chase what do you got i think uh we've evolved from the three little pigs and now we're looking at the walking dead or this person just comes into the bedroom and just stands there just staring at her it's a zombie movie that's exactly where it is and there there's one point in this clip that i think is absolutely critical to understand earlier we talked about somebody detailing explaining cognitive and logical reasoning for every little action they take that's a major sign of guilt or at least i've seen 100% only in guilty people and i've seen zero in innocent people and here's the most incredible thing that i've ever seen when it comes to this kind of deception indicator she ends off this video beautifully explaining the cognitive reasoning for her dog big deal if i had a mic right now i'd drop it uh greg well yeah so two things only two simple ones number one this is the single most rehearsed piece of her entire story if you don't believe it she's more prepared every time they ask a question whether it's cognitive process or whatever she's got an answer and it's pretty quick there's not much pause that's because she spent her time and her resources preparing for this part of the discussion is what will send her to jail who cares about the rest very tight however by this point she should be relaxed a little she's been an hour plus in the interrogation look at her shoulders look how narrow her shoulders have become her head now looks bigger on her body that did in the very first like i said to you people's shoulders narrow because those trapezius muscles just get tighter and tighter and tighter and you can't miss it by watching a person now the interesting piece is even in the interrogator that's where i first noticed it is in an interrogator who's feeling stressed notice mark what about you uh yeah so i think you're right chase and scott it's a it's a gunfoo zombie film that's going on so reiterated again somehow she has with the phone in her hand she's managed to pull the gun out of some kind of pouch my guess is is the phone is flipped up into the air it goes into slow motion and we see in close-up it's spinning round and round and round and round as it dialing nine nine one one yeah clearly she cocks the the revolver she fires off x amount of rounds uh into the assailant and then the phone comes down uh into her hand again beautiful uh end of end of shot there um yeah that's that's all i've got uh on that one scott what you got all right well she's as she's shooting this guy she's thinking she all she can think about is to get past get past that uh the door and get out the door if you're shooting somebody what your your your main focus is shooting that person not getting out of there if she's trapped in a room yeah she's gonna she would shoot but then that would be her focus not getting out it would be killing that person who's trying to get her this whole thing makes no sense right now where we are right now makes no sense she would be thinking that at all but we're at the most crucial part of the story and it's all about the shooting so what she's focused on to say has happened is it's goofy she starts heating up you can see if she gets a little bit flush in the face her illustrators are really close to her body she's doing her leg rubbing she's clasping her hands again and she's pretending like she's shooting him where's the phone at this point she's she's on the phone with nine one one which you're gonna hear in a couple minutes uh when this is over you're gonna hear her talk she's on the phone it sounds so it's hilarious and she's shooting him and talking to the nine one operator and where's the dog the guy has to ask her about the dog the dog would be flipping out jumping all over the guy yeah the dog doesn't know that guy is no matter what the size the dog is chihuahua to a mastiff it's going to be on the guy it just makes no sense it's it's just goofy at this here at this point yeah this is you so the first time you shot him would you say you're further than this away from him mean you maybe this far so okay from here to you the door opens out it opens into the bedroom okay so yeah so if i was coming in your bedroom it opened this way or this way towards me yes so i'm standing here and i'm one of these positions here in front of the door it swings open i'm standing there i'm ready okay and it swings open and we're just eye to eye and i just start shooting i'm walking forward because my first thought was to get past this door jam okay didn't even think about i'm shooting him hitting him i wasn't thinking about that i knew i had to get around this person and get back out somehow now what points did you fall do you remember i had shot quite a few times before you fell yeah quite a few times if you had to gust them then how many shots you think you fired i don't know i did all of them that was in there you know i think it was full do you know how many do you know how many rounds go in that particular weapon six i'm guessing i unloaded all of them i think it was full but i don't know for sure but i think it was it did not same when i hear them i had that i heard six booms but so do you think you hit him all six times i do you do yeah because i i walk i walked as close to him as i could till he fell down did he say anything no when that door flew open he just looked at me and i just started shooting right away i mean he didn't even have time to respond i don't even know if he saw that i had that i don't know if he even knew what it was going to do when he did that because he was so heightened by that but when you start shooting at him but by the time you fired your you only the one you fired your first shot but until you left the residence did he say anything else do you verbalize anything else he never moved out before never moved i stepped i got my dog where was your dog at during this whole thing um running around going nuts just didn't know what was going on mark what do you think we've seen up to this point yeah well you know up until this point all i would say scott is that i am looking forward to listening to the 911 call that you have been telling me about i'm looking forward to it chase what do you got oh there's a few ways uh in in the law in the military we need three things to you know terminate another person's life and that's they have to have the capability they have to have the opportunity to kill you and they have to have the intent to kill you and i think intent even if her story is correct is missing here and she might fall into those category of people with limited training who think they're tactical who ask when can i shoot instead of when should i shoot so there's a few ways you can learn what we learn in this or use what we learn in this video here first pay attention to pronouns very carefully when you're listening to somebody second watch for discrepancies between gestures and speech and sudden changes in these movements and stuff third genuine memories are varied and rehearsed stories tend to remain pretty consistent lastly look for a motion in the body on the face and in the words and if you see it on one of those things but not on the other something's not adding up and i think this entire video is just one for the record books greg yeah i think i could use this and never crack another video to teach body language because anything we want to see is here she's used anchor and redirect which means i'm going to use a set of words so every time we come back to it i get to talk about it and you see her doing that when she's talking about the the sweeping around the corner and all of it that kind of thing then she has reduced levels of detail under scrutiny and her arms well to her side she shows real stress and clusters of behavior before we even get to the place where she does gaslighting behavior that gaslighting behavior around back peddling disclaiming no certain answer establishing plausible deniability just so later she can say i never said that i think what if we've seen one ever that you're like yeah they got this one right this is probably it i don't think any of us are thinking maybe we should look out and try to get the innocence project to help her out scott what are you guys i agree with you every now and then on these episodes one of us will say you know what i'm going to use that clip there in training because it's so good for this this and this the mark will go i'll use that one in training because it's so good for this and this is when we can use all of them we can make a course out of this one you know we got to do we got to do that you guys let's make a short course out of this because it's so good if we can do it without laughing i think that that would actually be the key here so let's listen to the 911 call and we'll come back the island this is you 911 where's your emergency hey hello there's someone breaking in my house help with the address you're at get out get out get out all right fellas think this is another good one and we'll see you next time the behavior of that the cops showing up yet no i keep thinking this is around out there i don't think it's them i hope it's let me see if it is the main day the fifth yeah oh you know what that's monday memorial day it was the cops so what do you got