 This is Think Tech Hawaii, the immunity matters here. Okay, Hawaii, the state of clean energy. I'm Jay Fidel and this is our favorite show, the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum Show on Wednesday at four every week. I love it. And I love it even on a day with a hurricane, because somehow it puts things in a different perspective when you're dealing with the nature, mother nature, who is sometimes offended. Okay. We have to my left. We have Lauren Reichelt with Blue Planet Foundation, then to her left, we have Brennan Morioka with Wine Electric. And to his left, we have Greg Gogh, and he's with Ulupono Initiative. This is a really VIP show. Smile. Because you're here. Yeah. And what are we going to talk about? Of course, electrification of transportation today. It's very important. And we have to, you know, have to keep pushing forward on it. It doesn't sound right pushing when you talk about transportation, but hey. And it's about electrification. It's about bringing the whole piece together. It's about changing the way people feel about their transportation, their rides. So there's a big thing coming up. Who wants to talk about it first? Who's in charge? You can talk about National Drive Electric Week. Yeah, that one. Yeah. Okay. So National Drive Electric Week is September 8th to September 16th, and it's a nationwide celebration of electrified transit or transportation. And so it's really an awareness event. We're trying to increase awareness of the various plug-in hybrid and battery electric vehicles that exist and their environmental and financial benefits. Okay. So how is this being conducted on the mainland? How is it being conducted here? And is it the same in both places? Yeah. It's, there's sort of an umbrella organization that encourages a lot of localized events. So there are events going on all over car shows and ride-and-drive events. Here we have a number of events. There were, there was an EV fair last weekend and an EV ride-and-drive event. And then this upcoming weekend, there's another EV ride-and-drive event on Kauai and one on Big Island as well in Hilo. So it's just like everybody gets in an electric car and drives. Like, you know, they used to have this with the Model T four years ago, right? And it drives across the country with the Model T, you know, and they help each other and they need to and all that. It's more about exposure for folks who don't already own an electric vehicle. So sales associates will bring the cars that they have for sales, the electric vehicles, and the public can come in and test drive them in a really pressure-free environment and also get in multiple models at once and be able to compare them on the spot. Oh, this is good. So it's a showroom of sorts. It is. I can, you know, finally get my wife to agree to get an electric car this way. I should take her. Yeah. Authentic information. So the rest of you guys, Brendan, are you involved in this electrification program that's coming up? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, all of us here partner on a number of different activities. We are also a part of Drive Electric Kauai, which is a coalition of organizations both on the private sector, advocacy groups like Blue Planet and Ulupono Initiative, all of the utilities, and then a number of state government and county government entities as well. And it's really an effort by us to provide educational opportunities for the general public or for people who have been looking at buying an EV and maybe are on the fence. Ride and drive or EV fairs are opportunities for them to actually kind of touch and feel, test it out and just kind of ask a lot more questions that they maybe just can't find online or somewhere else. So these face-to-face kind of opportunities are very vital in the outreach and educational aspects of electrification and transportation, getting people to consider buying an electric vehicle. And so it's been very successful. Hoan Electric has partnered with a number of these organizations on these events that we did for National Drive Electric Week, but also on a fairly regular basis. We also had an event at the University of Hawaii football game. Last weekend versus Rice, which was a very successful, not just game, but also event because... One said to the other. Yeah. You know, we're right there in front of the gate entry and one of the entry points and there's a lot of people who just come by and we have, we're a number of vendors that are surrounding us, but we get a good share of that audience and people ask really good questions. And so we're there to just provide that kind of opportunity to have a conversation with them. You were involved too, Greg. Yeah. We've been supportive and like Brandon said, partnered with both Blue Planet and HECO and other stakeholders to try to move this forward, right? I mean, transportation in general is our larger consumer of imported oils. Ground transportation is a big component of that. So this is very important for us in terms of how do we reduce our dependence on imported oils. And EVs and electrification of transportation is a good way to do that. It's a viable technology right now. There's more and more options coming out with auto manufacturers. And so part of the challenge is there's a lot of misperceptions, a lot of lack of information out there. And so these events are meant to get some of informed people, whether from the dealers or private parties like us, to go out there and share information and like Lauren said, in a non-sales environment to educate informed people and hopefully get them to better understand what electric vehicles are all about, what they can do, what they can't do and hopefully ease their mind. So when they go to purchase a new vehicle, next time they really consider an electric and ideally they choose an electric, whether it's 100% battery electric or even just a plug-in hybrid that maybe gets 30 to 50 miles a range on the battery, which for most people would cover all their daily needs. I usually support that as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. Anything to reduce the consumption of oil? Well let me ask you a question about that. I mean I'm really putting into all three of you, to the extent that we're still using oil and creating the electrical energy that feeds these cars, they're not completely green. They're partly green and they're partly not green. What do you say to people when they, maybe when you go have this program, nobody shows up. And that's a very valid question and it's a very valid point. And as the utilities across the state transition towards 100% renewable portfolio, that energy that is used to power these cars start to become cleaner and cleaner. As compared to if you have just a regular gasoline car, that will continually be providing carbon emissions that is just going to continue to contribute towards an environment that is just not as clean as it could be. So even though it may not be as clean today as it will be tomorrow, I think putting all the right pieces in place will put us on the right path and going towards that I think is very important, especially not just towards a cleaner environment, but also towards the energy security aspects that Greg was alluding to. And to build up on that, as of 2017 I think statewide or at least maybe through the high electric companies, it was about 27% renewable energy. So right off the bat, a quarter of your fuel, or a little bit more than a quarter, is renewable. Is renewable driving your vehicle. But a key aspect, whether it's still fossil fuels versus gasoline at the pump, it's more efficient to go through the utility and because of that you're going to save money. So although gasoline is expensive here, as is electricity, on average you could save a third to even two-thirds the cost of fuel for an electric vehicle versus a gasoline-powered vehicle. Regardless, even though we're only 25% to 30% renewable energy. And also I would add this thought that there's a mindfulness issue. If I go out and buy an electric car, I'm making a statement not only to my friends and family but to myself. I'm committing to this. And so I'm more likely to be a guy who has solar on the roof. I'm more likely to be somebody who supports green energy in general if I am supporting green energy for the electric car. Well, and then I hear stories of people who buy the plug-in hybrid. And then because they do that, it's almost like a challenge to themselves. They make it a gain. Like, how much can I drive only on electric this week? And then in the end it's practically used as a fully electric car because they maximize their battery use. You must do something to you when you're driving down the street. You see all those stats coming up on the dash. Exactly how well am I doing right now? And Jay, and you bring up a good point, but that participating in having a cleaner environment is one thing. And that was really the motivation of many of the early adopters. But as electric vehicle technology has improved, it really starts to become more about cost savings for the individual consumer, but also just owning a better car. As the price of the vehicle comes down and it does become more affordable, the leaves and the bolts and the bolts, and even the new Tesla, the Tesla 3, which is still expensive, but it is becoming more and more affordable. But the vehicles are probably the most, I mean, I own a leaf and it's probably the best handling vehicle that I have ever owned. I want to talk about that, yeah. So you say it's a better car. Absolutely. And then we put aside the fact that it's an electric car, just put that aside for a minute. Handling. Okay. What the sound the door makes when it closes, right? All that. Especially when they're new. Especially when they're new, right? And then not treat you. I mean, if you're going to put a lot of technology into a vehicle, you're not going to put it just into the electric system, you're going to put it into everything, because otherwise you know, you're cheating yourself as a manufacturer. So tell me, how good are they? I mean, are they way better than my Toyota truck? They're phenomenal. Are you asking a trick question? Yeah. It's not Apple Apples there, but they're phenomenal. And to be honest, I mean, my wife and I, and we have two small kids, which means two car seats. We have a leaf. We have, you know, plenty of room in there for the car seats, for the kids, for the strollers, everything. It's a very family-friendly car. And we got our first one about four years ago. And what really sold me, and right I'm an advocate for this, was the test drive. I mean, as Brandon said, you get in there and test drive it, and it is a very smooth, very sound vehicle. The acceleration is beyond most traditional cars, because it's a 100% torque, almost from the start. And that's what really got me. And it's quiet. What about being too quiet? You know, when I was a kid, I rode my bike around the street, and I had a playing card, you know, from a deck of cards and a clothespin. You're too young for this now. No, I know exactly what I'm talking about. It's just so it would make a little noise. It's almost like maybe for an X-Tree, you get a plug in that makes a little noise, you know? So the leaf actually has a very distinct noise that it makes, where if you, as soon as you kind of get a tune to it, like, I mean, if I'm walking around and I, you know, just hear a car coming, I know instantly if it's a leaf or not because of the unique noise that it makes. So they do make some noise. They do it purposely. Yeah. I mean, it's not, you know, the rumbling, like, V8 engine that some of us might be used to, but they do make some noise. So what are the products that are in the marketplace now that I should consider and go down to this celebration? What should I be looking at? I mean, I like the Tesla, but what else? I mean, is, you know, we talk, I think we talked about this before, about the leaf out came out and there was a special discount or rebate going on just about a year ago, as I recall, and that was very attractive. And I knew some guys who bought that car. They have been in love with it ever since and the price. They were in love with the price. So what should I be looking at? The Toyota, the Tesla, the, what's the? So, yeah, almost every manufacturer at this point is either in the process of creating a plug-in or already has one on the market. And so Kia, for example, just released their Kia Niro, which is a plug-in hybrid. Sure, the car show, that was a very nice looking car. Yeah, I haven't driven that one yet, but that's the next one on my list. And we have the Chevy Bolt has probably the longest range, 238 mile range on one charge, and people really love that car as well. It was rated as one of the best cars in production right now, aside from being electric, and we have the Nissan Leaf, which everyone knows about. There's also some minivans that are being released, the Chrysler Pacifica plug-in hybrid. Plenty of choices. BMW, yep, Mitsubishi released. It's a crossover outlander, they're everywhere now. So they're starting to get bigger, the argument that my family can't fit in it, those things are sort of starting to melt away a little and ease people's minds. And I think trucks are probably going to be next, I think once we get the forerunners. Then the Toyota truck turns into the Toyota electric truck. There's a company called Workhorse that has a full-sized truck out there that sells, I think right now it sells for about $55,000. It's not fully commercialized yet, but as it hits the market, I think in 2019, 2020, and the price becomes much more affordable, I think you're going to start seeing people make that switch. Trucks is really the tipping point for Hawaii, I think. Yeah, everybody loves it. The Toyota Tacoma is the most popular vehicle purchased in Hawaii. Even more so as you go to the neighbor islands, the shift towards trucks becomes even more prevalent. So as you start getting the different models coming online, especially the larger SUVs and the trucks, I think that's when you really start seeing the shifts. And that's in a couple of years from now. So what about that hydrogen car, Mariah with it? Where does that fit in this discussion, in this landscape? Where does that fit? Well, hydrogen fuel cell is another version of electric vehicles. I mean, it's an electric car, but you don't plug it in. You fuel it by hydrogen produced in various forms. The Mariah is one of the models that are out there right now. There's also some larger trucks that are fueled by hydrogen, including buses. One of the challenges with hydrogen fuel cell right now is just the cost of infrastructure. It's extremely expensive to produce the hydrogen. Still 50,000 plus. Yeah, so it's difficult, but I think the technology is there. It works. But before it becomes a much more commercially viable product, the cost to produce the hydrogen needs to be coming down significantly more before it actually becomes much more prevalent in Hawaii. One other question before I go to the break, and that is, it's appealing to me, but I don't know if it's happening, and that is, so I have solar on my roof, and I bleed a little wire off the side, and when I come home, I'm feeding that car off either a battery or the solar, depends on what time I get home. I usually get home late. So is that popular? Is that happening? Is that something I should consider? In other words, charging my car at home with solar instead of going to a charging station? So I'll provide some input that may be deferred to Brennan. I think that's one of the key attractive benefits for the electrification of transportation is the benefits that it can bring to the grid and to helping integrate renewable energies, like timing charging electric vehicles, whether it's personal or even buses or commercial vehicles. During the day when there's peak sun, that's not only powering your solar but powering utility grid scale solar plants and other locations around the island, and I know HIKO is doing some work to best align the strategies as best we can. HIKO has been putting in charging stations all over Oahu as far as I know, and you have a regular campaign going on to do that. There must be quite a few by now, no? Yeah, it was actually across all of our three service territories, so Oahu, Maui, Maui County, and Hawaii Island. And so we have 13 currently right now, and we're in the process of trying to install four this calendar year and then another five next year. And public charging or access to public charging is one of the obstacles that we talk about towards EV adoption. We discussed the cost of a vehicle, the model types, two of which are very important consumer choices that people have when they're thinking about buying a type of car. So those are two obstacles, but the other biggest obstacle is access to public charging. And one of the, you know, the majority of people charge at home, like get home, plug in their car, let it sit over there. You know, 120. Yeah, 120. Some people choose to get the little faster ones, the 240, but even I charge mines with just my regular 120 outlet, I'm sure. We do the same, yeah. So charging at home is very easy, but for those who don't have access to home charging, like those condos, you know, public charging becomes very important. So they have access to the level two chargers out there in the public, but those take a little longer. So the fast chargers that Juan Electric has been installing become a very popular choice for condominium owners as well as TNC operators. So, you know, Uber and Lyft, they're always at our charging stations. Oh yeah, that's a whole new thing. I got an ad this morning that was at Uber or Lyft. One of the two were going to offer me a free ride today because it was hurricane. You know how to build a brand, eh? Yeah. Let's take a short break, guys, and we'll come back and talk about some of the macro factors about legislation regulation, about encouraging me to go into business and start my own charging station and where it's all going in the future. And the big bottom line question is, are we going to make it? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Why not? How many zeal we get in that question? This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Living in this crazy world, so caught up in the confusion, nothing is making sense for me and you. 2 p.m. I hope you'll join me for a likable science, where we'll dig into the science, dig into the meat of science, dig into the joy and delight of science. We'll discover why science is indeed fun, why science is interesting, why people should care about science and care about the research that's being done out there. It's all great, it's all entertaining, it's all educational, so I hope you'll join me for a likable science. We're back, we're live, and we have, which I can't meet my, Brennan Morioka, Lauren Reichelt and Greg Gow, all committed to electrification of transportation. Lauren is with Blue Planet, Greg is with Uluponu, and, sorry, Brennan is with Hawaiian Electric, okay, and they're working on this big project here, this celebration coming soon, when is it exactly? It's right now. National Draft Electric Week. It's right now. It's this week. Where do I go and when and how do I get there? The remaining events are on Kauai at Kauai Community College on Saturday morning from 9 to 12, we're doing electric vehicle test drives. I can actually drive it. You can actually drive it. Do you have a license? What was that? You do need a license, unfortunately, and then there will also be an event on Saturday in Hilo. Okay, all right, good. So let's talk about the economics. Right now, if I buy a car, I've got to spend, what, somewhere 30,000 plus, is that fair to say? The average new car is about $35,000. $35,000, okay, and that is before or after the federal tax credit? So that's for the average of all cars is roughly $35,000. All cars, I'm talking about electric cars. Electric cars, it varies. Usually more. I mean, it depends, right? I think people go usually more because of Tesla, which is obviously a high-end vehicle. Excuse the curve. But if you look at, you know, the new Nissan Leaf starts at $28,000, and then there's a $7,500 federal tax credit on top of that. So you know, if you can utilize that, you're down to, you know, close to $21,000 for a brand new high-tech vehicle. And then you're going to save, I would estimate, anywhere from $500 to $1,000 a year in fuel and maintenance costs. Oh, is that right? Yeah. So, big question. I meant to cover this. Is it easier to maintain an electric car than a gas car? Rotate your tires and change your windshield wipers. It's about it. Yeah. The dealers must love that. Yeah? Okay. No further questions. Yeah. Well, and on top of what Greg said, you know, about the federal tax credit and reducing the cost of, like, a Nissan Leaf, Nissan also has a $3,000 rebate this year. Oh, this is like what happened last year. Yeah. Last year, Nissan offered a $10,000 rebate for the Nissan Leafs, and that was wildly popular. This year, because the car has improved in some of its technologies, they've offered a $3,000 rebate, you know, BMW has a $10,000 rebate on the i3. And so, you know, those are some opportunities that are out there to help reduce the cost, the upfront cost of an electric vehicle. And if you look at some of the vehicles that are out there, like Greg said, the Nissan Leaf starts at $28,000. The Nissan, I mean the Kia Soul, electric version of the Kia Soul, starts at about $30,000, you know, and then you tack on the federal tax credit and then whatever rebates you can get from the manufacturers or the dealerships, you know, it starts to become very affordable. And then when you start looking long term, you know, at the maintenance cost, as Greg was alluding to, you know, you start getting a lot more savings on that. Do we need a state tax credit like we used to have? Do we need it? It wouldn't hurt. You know, whenever you looked at other jurisdictions, Georgia had a state tax credit that was very well utilized. And once the tax credit was sunset and taken away, the sales of EVs in Georgia dropped dramatically. Interesting. That's very interesting. And the affordability of electric vehicles is very dependent on, you know, that perception that I'm able to afford that upfront cost. Because people don't always, you know, they don't always look towards the long term life cycle costs and the savings that they'll have by the full ownership of their vehicle. Because they already have a problem just even putting down the down payment. So we need to, number one, educate them on the long term viability of owning an EV. But also, how do we help provide incentives to help reduce the cost of that up front Aside from the state tax credit, there are other incentives that I think would really help just sort of change people's thought process when they're making the decision. So right now there's some benefits that really help like access to HOV lanes, free parking and all. We don't have that. State and county lots. We do have all that right now. We have access to HOV. HOV. We have free parking in all county and state lots. There's always space in the parking lots. The law still requires that anybody in the parking lot of more than X stalls has to have some spaces for at least one EV charger. Right. Oh, charger. Right. Charger. Okay. Yep. And parking at the airport as well is free. And those are, they've been around for a while and so it's really important that we keep those incentives in place and then potentially look to additional incentives until we reach a tipping point where it's no longer sort of a nesting. We didn't reach that point yet though. No, not even close. Last time I knew the numbers. You guys can, all three of you at the same time can correct me. It was like just over 5,000 electric cars in the state. I'm totally wrong about that, right? Yes. How many? We're now about 7,500. 7,500. Okay. Yeah. And what is it increasing per annum? It's about 25% year-over-year growth versus overall car sales are basically flat. So it's a high growth sector. It's faster than overall car sales. Yes. Absolutely. So here we are. And I always sort of get a shudder when I realize how close we are to 2045. We're close. Are we going to make it? Are we going to be 100% and what do we need to do to get there? If you were, Brandon, I'm going to make you king, okay? You're king of Hawaii. Nothing about sovereignty. You're just king of Hawaii. I'm not even king of my home. Okay. This is an imaginary discussion. What would you do to make very sure that we hit our mark at 2045? One of the biggest drivers that we've found in some of our analysis is that the availability of public charging is going to be one of the most important drivers. And so being able to have the ability as a utility to drive some of that initially build the market, because I think part of the problem with the charging industry is that there is not, even though we're number two in the country in terms of EVs per capita, the number of EVs is still low in comparison to other areas. And so the market in Hawaii, we're supposed to be way ahead, right? Well, I mean, we're number two in the country in terms of EVs per capita. But when you compare the number, the sheer number or volume of EVs to someplace like California or Oregon. Just an absolute number. In sheer, pure numbers, you know, it's very difficult for a company to come in and make the kind of investments for charging infrastructure and then wait for a period of time to make some kind of return on that investment. And so the utility can play that role initially. Build the market, build the number of EVs that are actually on our roads. And then once we hit a certain saturation, then the private sector can come in and fill that the remaining gap. It's a great idea. We can do that? Yes, we are doing that. Yeah. Well, that's part of our electrification transportation roadmap that we submitted to the PUC that we've been working with them and all of our stakeholders, namely Blue Planet and Ulupono Initiative here, I'm trying to push that forward because a lot of the initiatives that we outlined in our roadmap are meant to drive an uptick of electric vehicles, not just passenger vehicles, but also electric buses as well. Sorry, to clarify too, when we talk about public transportation, it's across the board. So we're talking workplace charging, which is critical. And all this is not only meant to ease everybody, but to try to, as we talked about before, help those living in apartments or condos. They may not be able to charge when they get home. But if they could charge at work, where they're there for eight hours a day, you could easily do that and almost never have to worry about charging anywhere else. You wouldn't need it in the condo. Right. And it's real expensive in condos, so you can make it available outside. How are those young fellows who are doing the, gee, I forget the name of the company, the stainless steel, they were building it in Kakaako and it had advertisements on it and they put them in shopping centers. And the shopping center owner was so happy to have them, there would be no rent. So this is, I think you're referring to Volta. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. So we have at Ulupono, we've actually invested three charging infrastructure companies to try to help kind of get not only us here in Hawaii over that hump and that hurdle, but also on the mainland. And Volta is one of them. They're an ad-based company where their revenue is driven by ads, so it's no upfront cost to the site owner, and they are maybe some revenue share in there depending on what's negotiated. But there's lots of different options, which I think is another kind of poor information out there, and that's one of the reasons why we have these discussions, these events that share that information in terms of, for site owners, for property managers, there's a number of different options for EV charging from low cost, nuts and bolts to the Cadillac versions to ad-based, to mobile battery-based, to fast chargers, to level two chargers, and they can manage them in a number of different ways, whether they cover all the cost or whether they charge the user for the electricity or the power, or maybe a small margin, a low margin on that. So there's a number of different options for property owners out there, and so part of it is up to us to kind of educate and form and to Brennan's point and try to set the market. So you're actually testing the market. You're testing what's possible. You're investing in these companies, and that's a way of getting grassroots entrepreneurial development, and maybe one of those models will work better, it'll emerge and prevail. And I suspect with Wine Electric, there'll come a time, maybe some tipping point time, where you will say to me, Jay, you want to buy one of these charging station places, you can buy it, and you can own it and you can see if you can make a buck on it. Well, if we get to that point, then we've done our job, and that means there is a robust market in the electric vehicle sector that there's so many electric vehicles that people just want to put in chargers because they think that they can make some money off of it. So yeah, if we get to that point, then I think we've done our job. And it can actually be good for property owners, too. We did a survey a couple years ago on EV drivers. So it attracts traffic. And about, I think, 70% to 75% of respondents said they target specific places where there's charging. So if you're a restaurant or a retail center and you want to attract this demographic of EV drivers, put it in a charging station because people will target that specifically for the charging and then visit the properties. Part of that is the technology, though. If you tell me that I can come to a shopping center, but I'm not going to get charged or even a serious charge or much less a top-off in anything short of three hours, which may be the case. In fact, right now, that's too much for me. So what's the state of the technology now? In terms of fast charging, really fast. Is there somebody coming down the pike? Why don't you invest in that fast charging? What about you? What about you? Really fast. They're working on, there's a number of players in the market that are looking at faster and faster charging. But I mean, for here in Hawaii, realistically, we're not driving that far. So the new leaf has a 150-mile range. The boat, this range is around 240 miles. You could go a whole week and probably never use 100% of that. So if you're going to the grocery store or get a cup of coffee, you stop in, you charge for 20, 30 minutes while you're there, that's probably going to top you off and cover you for the next few days. In terms of distances, we live on the windward side. We have our leaf. It's about a 13-mile commute one way. So my wife and I could easily go multiple days, stop at the stores on the way home, and never have to recharge. From here to Waianae, we have some projects out there. It's about 35 miles one way. So at 70 miles round trip, which on 150 miles, you should be pretty comfortable with. It's definitely, people like to use that comparison a lot. And well, once an electric car has the same range as my gas car, then I'll adopt. But it's really behavioral change. Shifting your mindset about what charging means and how it fits into your life, it becomes more passive. You don't actively go out and seek. I mean, unless you're already going to go to the grocery store, you actively seek a grocery store with a charger. But you don't have to actively seek a gas station anymore. You can plug in in your garage, or you can find one as you go about your normal day. And so the faster the charger isn't necessarily going to make your life any easier, because that's not really the charging model anymore. Yeah. So do you have an electric car? I do not. OK, well, I don't need it. Don't feel bad. These two guys, I know they do. They do. Although some people have both, but put it in each camp. I still need my truck, which is why your truck question is not a fair question. But I do have a nice sun blinder on my car, though, that says my next car is an electric vehicle. I'm working on it, guys. So we're about out of time, and I wanted each of you to sort of tell them your thoughts. What you would leave with people? About the mindfulness about green energy, and about getting electrified in transportation, not only for themselves, but for the community. Because however much you enjoy it, however much it saves you money or time, how good you feel about it, it's really the community at the end of the day we're interested in. So let's start with you, Greg. What would you tell the people? Yeah, for the community, I mean, for me, it's really about whether you want to continue polluting the planet or not. And we have specific laws and rules for polluting and throwing trash on the ground. And every day we get into our gas vehicles, we are knowingly or not polluting the planet, which arguably is global warming, and we're going through lots of hurricanes right now. It's all kind of tied together. So to help the community, help the globe, let's try to do our best that we can to transition to cleaner energy and electric vehicles is a viable option at the moment that's going to save us all money. All right, Fredin, what would you tell them? Well, I would just say the majority of households or families over the next three or four years are going to be looking at buying at least one new car or getting another car. And whether it's a new car or even a used car, there are options of electric vehicles out there for you. And so I would just say, do your homework before you make your next purchase. There are tools out there. We have an EVWAT tool on our web page. There are other EVWAT tool is on our web page. It allows someone to go in and compare the different gas cars to an electric vehicle version where you live, how much you drive, so that you can also get a comparison of how much you might save over the life of the cars. So on our hornelectric.com, just go look for our electric vehicle web pages. It's the EVWAT tool is on there. But also do the test drives. Go out to one that Lauren is setting up, that we're going to be also participating in. Actually jump in the car, see how it performs. Make sure that it suits your lifestyle. If you're single, you have a family, there are different options for you out there. It's not the old just the bubble-eye Nissan Leaf anymore. There's, sorry if that's the one. But I mean, the models are changing. There's far more varieties. And so there is an electric vehicle that suits everyone's lifestyle. And so educate yourself, go do your due diligence, see how much more money you can save by owning an EV. And then I'm sure you'll make that dive. You don't mind if I have my wife call you, eh? Call me anytime. OK, Lauren, how about you? And don't forget to mention yet again the celebrations this weekend. Well, I'd like to reiterate the things that Greg and Brennan just said. Are you trying to tell me you agree with them? I do, I agree with them. Anything they said you don't agree with? I'd have to pick back through it. Generally agreed. But definitely while electric vehicles aren't charged on 100% clean energy right now, a gas car will never be. A gas car will never get cleaner. It's always going to be using fossil fuels. And an electric vehicle will continuously get cleaner as our grid continues to get cleaner. And so I mean, we're sitting here on a day that there's a tropical storm outside. We thought it was going to be a hurricane hitting us dead on. And it's been a relatively active hurricane year. And it's going to continue to get worse the longer we continue to pollute. So I think it's really important and it's really impacting us directly here, whether we see the connections or not. And so I just would advocate for everyone coming to our events. Trying an electric vehicle, you will fall in love with it. We have an EV ride and drive event on Saturday, this weekend, Saturday, September 15th, from 9 to 12 at the Kauai Community College Community Farmers Market. OK, I have two things I want to say. Something you said made me think of this. Is that some people think that because we're so small, alone in the Pacific Ocean, we have no effect on climate change. I reject that. Everybody has an effect on climate change. And it should be a global initiative. The second thing is people think, well, we've got these bad storms and there'll be bad ones coming too, more bad ones. It's too late that we can't do anything anymore. We're already in another normal that is going to be really deadly. That's wrong too. We still have to try. I know you will agree. And finally, I want to thank Maria, Tomei for setting this up today, as I always do. She's out there somewhere. Thank you, Maria. And thanks to the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum. And thank you, Greg. And thank you, Brennan. And thank you, Lauren. Thank you. Thank you. Aloha.