 UN women estimate that the exclusion of women from the digital sphere has cost low and middle income countries up to $1 trillion in potential GDP. UPU research has shown us how post can foster the development of their communities by reaching the underserved with essential services. As a key social partner and trusted public service provider, we the post can use its global reach to advance digital inclusion and close the digital gender gap. For example, we have studied postal banking and we have provided that it is more inclusive for women than the traditional banking service. Posts therefore have the ability to connect more women with digital financial services. We have seen many examples of gender inclusive innovations in posts around the world. Many posts have delivered target study and career programs for women and girls. They have also supported programs for women-led startups and small businesses and have launched investment generating projects. I believe some of these examples will be discussed and introduced today. To support these efforts, the UPU and its member countries have been working together to provide capacity building programs in postal digital services e-commerce and e-government. Last year the UPU pledged to connect every post office in the world to the internet by 2030 through its connect dot post project. I encourage all of you to build on this expertise to ensure that no woman or a girl is left behind as economy grows and move deeper into the digital space. The UN Sustainable Development Agenda has been conceived as an interconnected and comprehensive set of goals. The relationship between successful digitalization and gender equality is one of the brighter examples of these synergies. I hope this discussion will help raise awareness of the immense potentials of the post to advance both of these essential social courses. So thank you very much for your kind attention. Thank you very much, Director-General, for your opening remarks and we might get stuck in now to introducing our expert panellists who are joining us from, well, around the world, is very much a global audience today and a global panel. I'll start by introducing our first speaker, Christine Sund from the ITU. Christine, would you like to just share a few opening remarks? Thank you very much, Ian. Good morning and good afternoon and good evening wherever you may be located, connecting to this session. Greetings from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, indeed. So we are at the local group here on the panel as well as in the audience, I can imagine. So thank you to UPU Director Metoki and his team for inviting the ITU to celebrate this year's International Women's Day on the theme of innovation and technological change and education in the digital age through this webinar. It's really a great pleasure for us to be present. And those who know me are aware about my passion for connecting schools to the Internet as the ITU focus point for the GIGA initiative together with UNICEF and governments across the African continent and through connecting these schools, connecting people in the communities where the schools are located. But how about working together really to connect the people in all communities by connecting all the post offices that still do not have access to the Internet. And through this also spur the uptake of digital services. Now, this is something that makes me really, really excited. And just maybe to just take that into context of what we do at the ITU. So ITU is the UN specialized agency on digital technologies and we have members from 193 governments working together with the private sector and as well as academia. And we're dedicated to connecting the world and to supporting countries in bringing meaningful connectivity and sustainable digital transformation to the citizens in these countries. So here when we talk about meaningful connectivity, ITU's work on extending meaningful connectivity is grounded on the conviction that bridging the digital divide, encompassing not only bringing access to those people who remain offline, but ensuring that meaningful connectivity for those who are not currently able to reap the benefits of the digital economy and more importantly also of course of the digital society. So at the core of digital transformation is the right policies. It's really important that the right policies are put in place, digital policies that also include a gender and rounded in gender desegregated data and research. Gender sensitive policies are a must really to drive inclusive digital transformation. It is more over critical that governments involve women in the consultative processes and ensure that policymaking decisions prioritize their needs. One of the main challenges though that we face is the lack of such informed policies. Let me share some data here at the outset of as I'm introducing myself as well. ITU research shows that by the end of last year only 94 countries had adopted national digital agendas and just a mere 21 of these had a special focus on women. And in regard to this yesterday ITU launched a report on or a handbook I should say on a gender mainstreaming and it really provides a practical tool with some action of checklists for policy makers to make this happen and I will share also as we go into the discussion the link to that that handbook in the chat that might be of interest to the audience. So just as important as these policies is a need to address all barriers to meaningful connectivity including the lack of infrastructure affordability issues, access to devices and skills. They're all really interconnected and I hope to come back to some of the digital skills projects that we are supporting on the African continent later. So with that I will end my introduction here and hand back over to you Ian. Thank you so much. Thank you very much Christine. My goodness there's a lot to unpack in all of that. I'm looking forward to our deeper discussion later on. We'll be able to tease out some of the details of what you've been talking about there. I'll introduce now Wendy Aytan from the UPU. Wendy would you like to make a few opening remarks please. Yes thank you for giving me the floor and good afternoon good afternoon good evening everyone. I'm coming to you from Bern Switzerland so that's where the UPU is located. I'm really happy to be participating in this event today on innovating equality the post as an engine of digital empowerment. So I'm the director of e-commerce and physical services integration here at the UPU and I work in the directorate of postal operations. My main role is developing all aspects of mail services such as letterpost, parcel post and express mail service. I've been working in postal for 32 years. The first 22 years were at Israel Post and I've been at the UPU for 10 years now. When I was preparing for this forum and thinking about the post as an engine of empowerment I thought to myself that over the 32 years I have worked in the post I've really gone through a digital evolution that was perfectly placed echo actually. One of my tasks when I started working in postal operations was international route planning. This details finding the best, cheapest, fastest route for mail from country A to country B. To build the routes we used this book that looked exactly like the old telephone books you might remember they were like super super thick and some of us may even remember the name which was the official airline guide or the OAG. This guide contained the airline schedules for all of the airlines and we had to look up flights for every route starting with direct flights and then building multiple connections. It took at least a month to build the schedule and we had to do this twice a year. So today the OAG is an online database and you can build routes in seconds. Thank heavens for digitalization is all I can say. There were not a lot of women in the postal operations back then. I was lucky that I worked for the only woman vice director in my post. I learned a lot from her about how to thrive in a male dominated environment. At the time I was aware that women were a small minority of postal operations staff but I didn't really think twice about it. It was just the way it was. I do remember though that sometimes when I had to leave precisely at whatever time it was to run and pick up my four children from school that eyebrows were raised by some colleagues and although it was a little uncomfortable at times it was just the way it was. Because there were very few women in senior positions and I didn't have many female role models to look up to over the years as I moved up the hierarchy I've tried to be a positive female influence and have tried to help other women and men succeed. I think acting as a mentor is a way of giving back and encouraging people to achieve their full potential. It is especially helpful and powerful to help people to find their voice and believe in their abilities. So the position of women in the postal sector may have historically been limited but there are signs of progress. In general women have been underrepresented in technology, engineering and mathematics the so-called STEM fields. However the postal industry has recognized the need for diversity and inclusion in innovation and many postal operators have taken steps to increase the representation of women in all roles. Some initiatives include creating mentoring programs and providing leadership opportunities for women in innovation. Companies have also been actively recruiting women in STEM fields and providing training and development programs to help them advance in their careers. Despite these efforts women still face significant barriers to entry and advancement in digital digital innovation roles especially within the postal and logistic sector. There is a need to address systemic barriers such as gender bias and unequal pay as well as provide resources and support for women in digital innovation roles. Overall there is progress being made to increase the representation of women in digital innovation within the postal and logistic sector but there is still much work to be done to ensure that women have equal opportunities to contribute and advance in this field. Now let me tell you a little bit about why the UPU sees the post as an engine of digital empowerment and inclusion. The UPU supports digitalization especially in regard to e-commerce in three major ways. One, the global postal network offers access to postal services and delivers to over 80% of homes around the globe. Two, the UPU network enables financial services in many countries through post offices and payment solution and mobile apps. And three, the UPU offers electronic platforms and tools that support the postal network. So posts can help include women in the market and help women entrepreneurs grow their services by providing a secure platform on which they can sell their products, attractive delivery and return services, payment apps, access to financing and access to training. To conclude, we in the postal world like to think that the post is the great equalizer. That means providing access to all sectors of society and ensuring that no one has to get left behind in the ever-expanding digital landscape. Thank you. Thanks Wendy. I love that phrase post is the great equalizer and that idea of how we can encourage or support women and girls in technology as well as something we're going to get into in our discussion later on. Now, our next speaker is Vanessa Schochter. Vanessa is from La Poste. Vanessa, I'll hand it over to you to make a few opening statements please. Bonjour à toutes et à toutes. Ravie d'être à vos côtés et d'avoir été invité. Je vous invite à écouter effectivement en anglais pour ceux qui souhaitent la traduction. Je représente la Poste française, donc j'interviens depuis Paris. Et à la Poste française, je suis plus particulièrement attachée à la filiale spécialisée numérique, donc d'Ocaposte, qui est la filiale qui est l'expert du traitement des données sensibles référents de la dématérialisation. En fait, d'Ocaposte fait ce que l'on fait à la poste dans milieu physique, le fait dans milieu numérique. On accompagne la digitalisation avec la lettre électronique recommandée, la dématérialisation des bulletins pay pour nos clients, le vote électronique, la signature ou les contrats en ligne et l'archivage numérique. Donc je représente cette filiale. Et en fait, ce que je voulais vous partager, c'est qu'à l'échelle du groupe, la Poste nous sommes entraînés dans la progression de la part des femmes à tous les niveaux hiérarchiques. Nous nous attachons à faire progresser cette part des femmes. Et nous en sommes aujourd'hui au niveau du groupe la Poste, à notre cinquième accord, signé en 2022 avec les intenses représentatives du personnel, pour justement favoriser la part des femmes. Aujourd'hui, on est en plus accompagné par des mesures d'État, notamment la loi RICSIN en France, qui veut que l'on fasse progresser dès lors que nous avons pu 2 000 salariés les femmes en tant que femmes dirigeantes dans l'entreprise et femmes dans les instances décisionnaires, qui est très important. C'est que les femmes soient là dans les milieux de décision. Aujourd'hui, on a des objectifs très ambitieux et pour les femmes, effectivement, nous avons déjà 25 % de femmes dirigeantes à la Poste française et 35 % dans les instances décisionnaires. L'objectif étant de tendre bien sûr vers les plus de 30 %, donc nous y sommes quasiment déjà, et puis d'aller vers les 40 % internes. Et ça nous le maintenant également dans la filiale numérique. Donc dès lors que nous sommes dans une filière très scientifique, très technologique, nous avons pu à la Poste le faire dans la logistique. Maintenant, nous avons le défi à relever dans la filière numérique. C'est fait effectivement qu'on est les mêmes ratios, que l'on accueille effectivement des jeunes femmes du numérique spécialisé, également en sécurité informatique, en cyber sécurité. C'est très important aujourd'hui dans l'IA, parce que ce que l'on fait en programmation IA aujourd'hui conditionne les services de demain. Et si nous introduisons des biens, nous introduisons effectivement des difficultés futures pour les services. Donc nous veillons effectivement à appliquer ces ratios. Et nous sommes impliqués, pas que en interne, on se rend compte que pour faire progresser cela, nous avons besoin de nous baser sur des écosystèmes. Faire venir des personnes sur le numérique à la Poste, c'est favoriser l'orientation vers les filières scientifiques des plus jeunes âges, des jeunes filles, des jeunes femmes. Donc nous travaillons, et nous avons été membres fondateurs de la Fondation Française-Sham du Numérique, avec 40 autres entreprises françaises pour favoriser des projets visant à orienter et à donner envie à des jeunes filles de rejoindre les filières scientifiques et numériques. C'est très important. Et depuis trois ans, nous avons accompagné une dizaine de projets associatifs pour favoriser l'inclusion des femmes dans la filière numérique, et également dans les études supérieures. Parce qu'on sait qu'ensuite, elles arrivent chez nous, elles sont recrutées. Et plus nous avons des candidats femmes, plus nous avons le choix dans les recrutements, et plus nous pouvons assurer la parité qui est nécessaire pour nos activités. Donc nous sommes très actifs et ce que je voulais aussi vous partager aujourd'hui, c'est que nos actions ne se limitent pas aux bornes du groupe et des employés internes, des postières, des postiers, mais également à ce que nous faisons avec notre écosystème. En 2019, nous avons décidé d'agir en l'imposant des quotas. Et nous sommes dit, il n'est plus question d'avoir des startups accompagnés si nous n'avons pas la parité. Donc nous avons décrété cette parité, et depuis trois ans, nous avons 50% de femmes fondatrices, 50% d'hommes-fondateurs. Et je vais vous expliquer aussi aujourd'hui comment nos histoires n'arrivent. Mais c'est une question de mobilisation, alors déjà de volonté, de mettre en place des objectifs à atteindre, et puis une question de mobilisation de l'ensemble. Et aujourd'hui, nous sommes très fiers d'avoir ces femmes, mais il y a encore beaucoup d'efforts à faire, parce que ce que je constate aujourd'hui, c'est qu'elles ne sont pas tout le temps entendues, quand elles sont par exemple dans des levées de fonds, dans des négociations de contrats très importants. Et puis, très souvent, après quelques années, vu que j'ai un historique de 8 ans sur ces startups accompagnés, elles passent les reines de leur société, elles donnent la place de CEO à souvent un associé, un associé homme. Donc elles abandonnent le milieu des affaires au bout de quelques années. Donc nous avons encore des efforts à mener sur toute cette partie numérique, ce que je veux vous partager aujourd'hui. Thank you Vanessa for those opening remarks, and we'll try and delve into some of those topics during our panel discussion. Our final speaker represents the private sector, so it's great to have a different perspective on this panel. Joining us from Zimbabwe is Rosemary Van Baer, who, well, I'll hand over to you. I'll let you share a little bit about what you're doing and your perspective on the topics we've been discussing. My name is Rosemary and I'm an e-seller from the Zimbabwe Zimpus Twer. So when I came across their brochure then, as they were trying to encourage women in business, especially what we call SMEs, yes, small business women in business, which are still very small. Then I got interest because as African women or as Zimbabwe women, we tend to avoid anything that talks about digital or something that the moment you hear the word digital, we think of a computer or of a good phone, we start to calculate. But our Zimpus are really working very hard, trying to encourage all of us. So as one of the women in business who approached them, I approached through their brochure, which they were distributing. I'm really happy, I've benefited being on their wall, which they are trying to do for us as SME women in business and what I've also observed through what they are trying to do here, we used to call them before internet cafes, but they are not doing the internet cafes, but they are doing booths where people go in, get trained and what. I've just realized through whatever the Zimpus are trying to do for ZIM women and at the same time as African women, us as women, we tend to fear to move ahead, to move with the time, to go like what we call now moving ahead, going with the times. So I would really wish also if our Zimpus here, I don't know how they go about it, if they can go to from the grass root level of women to encourage them to really go digital and use our language. At the same time, since I started my business, I've grown to design, to dress. Rose Wambay is exhibited in so many places, but because of my background, I say I've achieved a lot because I'm a pure ordinary village girl who grew up thinking of designing, who has become to be a semi-business woman of the year, eight times in Zimbabwe have exhibited as far as Indonesia, Netherlands, representing my country, in Africa, I'll say in every other country. So I would say I'd encourage our Zimpus to keep on pushing us as ordinary women. I like what they are targeting ordinary women, we are trying to make it in life and tell them to encourage them to be digital. Thank you. Thank you very much, Rose, because what you've just touched on there is one of the first discussion points that we were going to launch into really is about how posts can use gender equality to meet those digital transformation goals. I think perhaps Susan, shall we kick off or would you like to kick off giving an overview of that and maybe we can bring in some of our panelists as we go along here? Well, I do believe that Wendy touched on quite a few, because in general posts need to, well everyone, not just posts, but all organizations need to have the contributions of everyone involved, not just the men who are in the positions of the highest levels of power, but everyone of every ability and both genders so that the best ideas can come in order to use the ideas that everyone has in order to transform digitally from, as Wendy says, writing down everything and using paper and calculating by hand to actually being able to use computerized services to take care of all of these things that are necessary for the post to operate fully. And I think that's how gender equality comes into play, not only for posts, but for all organizations. Wendy, do you want to add something on that? Sure. So, following up on what Susan said, and as I mentioned already in my opening remarks, the post on the UPU network really provides a secure net platform for women or people to sell their products, attractive delivery and return services, payment apps, access to financing, and access to training. So, what Rose was telling us about was ZIMPost, Zimbabwe Post's initiative in this area. And what they did was they took all of the elements that also Vanessa was mentioning to engage women and empower women, and they made a project around it where they created in their post offices facilities where women can meet and learn about how to become successful entrepreneurs. They would actually train them and give them the skills they need to be able to open an online shop, to be able to figure out how to do the financing. They actually have a financing solution as well through the post, and providing them also of course with the delivery products, the mail products that they need to be able to run an online e-commerce business and have their items ordered and delivered. This is done through a mall that they have created that Rose also mentioned, that really encourages and engages people, women and other rural people to be able to engage in business and in the market. So, it's an excellent initiative, and you can see from what Rose was saying that now she sells internationally. She's on the international arena. Really, I mean, I really appreciate what you said, Rose, and I applaud you for what you've done, and I'm going to look up your website after this. Christine, I might come to you now, because in your opening remarks, you're talking about meaningful connectivity. There's also this other theme of digital transformation and what that means in developing communities. So, can you share some comments on that with regard to digital inclusivity, and what was that phrase again, the meaningful connectivity, and especially what it means for women and girls in those developing communities? With pleasure, and I'm actually looking forward to Rose coming to us in Ethiopia as well with her products and maybe one day, Rose, we can also find you here in Ethiopia. So, then, yes, I just wanted to share some thoughts about the importance of digital skills in this context. Skills really that allow young and old to contribute to and benefit from the digital economy and digital society, and I truly believe that digital skills can change lives. Even basic digital skills training can be a turning point for many women and girls around the world. I support work in Sub-Saharan African countries from the IT regional office here in Ethiopia, and I just wanted to share an example from one of our projects. A woman who was called Shaka, she took part in our tech as a driver of women's economic opportunity project, which is led by ITU and EIS. EIS is the Enhanced Integrated Framework and also which feeds into the equals initiative, a coalition and global partnership for gender equality in the digital age. Shaka, she comes from a livestock farming family in Burundi and the workshop she attended on e-commerce really opened her eyes to new possibilities. She's now part of a group of more than 800 women across Burundi and Ethiopia, but also Haiti who has taken part in this project to date, learning new skills, putting their project produce handicrafts and designs online and for sale, like just like euros in a way, but maybe in a smaller scale, they're still not as international, but they have been able to really build some successful businesses, and they've been able to explore new markets, and maybe that means that these are 800 lives that have been changed through digital skilling at different levels, but the project I'm referring to also goes beyond skilling up. It also connects women to digital and networking platforms. It helps them to drive economic advancements for themselves and through this for their families and in their communities, and we would of course love to have more women, more young girls as well involved in this kind of trainings and skilling programs, and we have others maybe that I will have an opportunity to mention later as well. Maybe just to wrap up here, to answer your question there, Ian, would you really find that progress towards gender equality is just way too slow. There are so many things that are happening, but it's just way too slow. We need to continue to work together through some concrete initiatives to enable and empower women to become equal leaders in today's digital transformation, and we are making progress as we can see here in this webinar as well, but we are not there yet, so my challenge to us here is to see, well, how can we speed it up? How can we work more closely together to make this happen and make these opportunities really become real for more women and girls? With this I end my intervention here and kind of back over to you, Ian. Thank you. Thank you, Christine, for that in-depth answer, and with the examples. It's really great to hear examples of what's really happening out there. Susan and Vanessa as well, do you have anything else you want to add on this particular topic of how posts can find ways to support women in business, whether it's SMEs and through these different methods like that Rose and Christine just mentioned, whether it's access to finance or access to the internet or all those sorts of things. Do you have any other comments you either of you would like to share? Well, Ian, I think that one thing that's been mentioned by several of our panelists today is education. That's very, very important for women and I'm sorry for boys as well as girls to be able to understand more about the digital world, how they can use digital tools to help them. And, you know, I very much applaud the ITU program and Vanessa was also talking about encouraging girls to study STEM. So perhaps Vanessa, you could elaborate a bit on that. When it comes to 9% to 50% of women entrepreneurs, we have startups that are starting out. They are pre-marketization, a solution, they start out just right. They are very small. They didn't raise funds. They are two or three people at the head of the company. That's it. And these startups really need to be accompanied. At the beginning, as I said, we communicated on our research on IoT startups. Internet of Things. The pure technology is a bit of a challenge for women. So we have evolved in time and we have seen that to reach parity, it was necessary to talk about the purpose. So do you have a digital service with a positive impact on society? When we say that, it attracts a lot more young girls and women, they say yes, of course. And as we have four themes, it is digital services for health care, for improved proximity services, find everything around your home, in logistics, to facilitate daily life, find services within companies to facilitate the relationship with the clients, facilitate the day-to-day activities in an enterprise, or facilitate the territory part, that is to say the digital services that are not accessible for everyone, or education for everyone, etc. Well, when we give these themes every year, it speaks more to women. And that's why we have a lot more candidates. So it's also this. Talking about it in a different way, it's the impact, the impact on society. And then we also had, as usual, the start of the program from 2015 to 2019. You know, we are in the world of start-ups, at a global scale, it is a movement that is very important. And we were talking about boosting your business, scaling, going to the scale, the super-growing strength, etc. It is also scary for women. That is to say that women want a viable business that creates local value, but not necessarily super-growing. You see? And in fact, we changed the way we communicate by saying no, join us, join the community, talk with parents, because very often there is the solitude of the entrepreneur, you are alone. So there, you are going to be accompanied, you are going to be trained, we teach them how to pitch correctly, to get ahead of themselves, because women are also afraid to get ahead of themselves. And I like the example of Rose, who doesn't hesitate to go everywhere and talk about what she does, because that's very important, but often women don't do it. So we teach them the codes to actually get ahead of themselves. And when we do that, well, we know that it will be then very solid companies with which we will be able to lead partners as a post. So that's two important points. Change the communication acts, don't be afraid, then accompany them so that they sign up for the duration. And then I would say the third thing is never to forget, and we are very, very, how to say, access to this point. And I think that all the posts we have in our ADM, we are in all the places, the post goes everywhere, it is in proximity with these clients. And the startups that we accompany, we don't want to underestimate them at all. They are in such or such a region of France, and it's very important for us because they have their clients, their suppliers, their regional ecosystem. And so that's also what participates, not to underestimate them, to leave them where they want, but to make them shine at a slightly more important scale, and that's what the posts can do. They can at the same time make the local links and put in visibility and great companies at a wider scale, and even wider at the level of the EU. Thank you, Vanessa. And remember everybody, you can keep, you can pop your questions. Pop those questions. The echo comes through our headphones again. You can pop your questions in the Q&A, and we will start getting to them very soon. You can ask in French, because Susan's going to translate them. Ellie can ask in English, and I will translate them into Australian for everybody. I want to, and I have a, well, Rose, I might ask you a quick question before we move on. One of the things that was just mentioned was about education. And you mentioned, when you first spoke earlier about the training that you received in, whether it was distance selling or whatever it might be. Can you just tell us a bit about what it means for you as someone who's a creator, creating fashion, creating a look, whatever, to be able to traverse the online business world, and how, you know, what training or what education you needed, or what you've observed in your fellow entrepreneurs, what they needed as well? What I've observed and what I learned from the digitalisation is marketing has a problem. Producing, I was producing, having a small shop at the corner of the street, and people were coming in, but the sales then were not like reaching where I really wanted them to, and even the, what you call it, the monthly income at the end of the day to do all the bills and so forth. And as we were, as I was being taught, I also realised that what is it that scares us as women in business? I realised everything is in English, or it's in another language, and also what we call it, the format they use for me to fill up all the spaces that are required, they are also in English. It scares women away. If there could be these programmes in local languages, and also what I observed is I'm growing in it, other women, they are just not interested in investing in a laptop. They calculate, most women are very calculative. A standard laptop a year costs about $600. So a woman will say, what will $600 do with me? So I was actually going to share this with our zimpost here today as they invited me, that the cost of laptops or the cost of a good phone to do everything online, or even to be a member of the Zimbabwe email is not like growing fast as we all require, it's because of the language and the cost of the items of a good phone and a laptop. Thank you. Ian, if I may, I'd like to further explore the differences here between the way men and women approach these issues, because gender equality doesn't mean that we're the same. We need to understand the differences, both how men think as well as how women think. Wendy and I worked together, so we were talking the other day in this connection about mentoring, and I wonder, Wendy, if you would be interested in explaining a bit more about how you see the differences between men and women and the reason why it's very important to mentor women. Sorry. Just, Susan, if I may, just before we go on to mentoring, because it's going off, and I really would like to just pick up a little bit on what Vanessa, Christine, and now Rose have said about mainly accessing the internet. I mean, you can't be part of digitalization if you don't have access, if you don't have access to the net itself, and if you don't have access to mobile phones and computers. And this is something that our Director General touched on in his opening remarks that the, through DotPost, the UPU, all of the postal offices in the world are being, are starting to be connected to the internet, and they can be used, as Zimpost shows, as centers where the community can come and actually have access to the internet. Now, I'm not sure from after hearing Rose, if Zimpost, for example, gives access to computers and to other equipment that might be needed, maybe they do, but if the laptops and mobile devices are expensive in these areas, then maybe that could be another way that the post could help the community by providing, like an internet cafe, as Rose mentioned, or somewhere where the community can come together and have the equipment so they don't have to invest in it, and they can use the money to invest more in their own marketing and in their own wares and producing dresses or whatever they want. Yeah. So, sorry, I just wanted to make that comment if that was okay. But going back to mentoring men and women, I think this is my opinion. So I think that men and women look at things sometimes from, from have a little bit of a different perspective on things. I mean, we're socialized differently in growing up, or at least we were, I think it's changing now. I can see with my children, my youngest is 27, my oldest is 35, and I can see how they work with their, in their relationships with their wives. It's much more equal than it was, than I was young, for example. But so I think that if you, if we want to mentor either men or women, we have to come at it from a little bit of a different aspect. I think as, I think it was Vanessa that mentioned before, women aren't so easily talking about themselves. It's a lot of women find it hard to promote ourselves. And if we do promote ourselves, sometimes it's seen, it's taken in a wrong way, like we're too ambitious or, you know, there's other, these other catchphrases that are put on us. So it's important to me as, when I'm talking to women or even younger men, to really understand where their strengths are and how to develop these strengths and how to, to be comfortable in the strengths they have and not to be afraid to express themselves and say what they're good at and even say what you're not so good at. Not all of us are, are great at everything. And I think we have to, to realize that. And one of the tools that I usually recommend to do this is to write down what you do. You know, if you do, if you finish a good project, a successful project, write it down. And then when you have to write a CV or when you have to come to sit with your assessment with your boss, you have these things already in front of you. You don't have to start racking your brains like, what did I do this year? You know, it's there in front of you. And even not for those purposes, just to remind yourself of the of the good things you do of the of your contributions, you know, and again help you, your self-confidence grow in that way. So it's just a little bit about the way I see things there. Thank you, Susan. Thank you, Wendy, for that. And just really, I had a question coming from Rogerio in Mozambique, who's basically asking to find out more about projects like the Zimpost project or like the various projects that are either empowering women, empowering women in small business. Is there a central place that other postal operators can go to to find out more about what other projects are out there so they can learn from that to be inspired to do something in their own country? And Susan or Wendy, if either of you are able to answer that one, I think I think I would I think I would recommend you to just to write an email to either Susan or myself and we can channel it to the proper people inside the the IB in the International Bureau and then we can respond. That's all right. So there you go. So Rogerio, hopefully you can get in contact with some of the UPU International Bureau and they'll be able to point you in the right direction. Keep popping those questions in the Q&A. So we've got a question here. It says it's aimed at, oh gosh, I've lost it, whereas it may have been put into French. Here we go. A question to Christine from the ITU from Arianna. Hello, Arianna. Thank you for your question. At the beginning, you were talking about the importance of having specific digital gender policies in place that address issues such as access to digital technologies, infrastructure, etc. Could you please elaborate on this point and perhaps share some good practice if you've got good practice from the ITU to that ends and where they're at now? Great. Thank you so much for that question. Unless I had promised I didn't do it yet, but I'll put that handbook on gender mainstreaming indeed in the chat. It has fresh case studies as well that may be interesting to browse through and may relate to specific things that you're seeing in your specific context. And yes, indeed I did talk quite a lot about the policies, but I would also like to draw our attention to the critical gaps in data to inform those policies. Because if we don't have the data, the right data for the development projects and interventions, it will be very difficult for decision makers to take action on those. So maybe that's just maybe one thing I would like to put out there and just one more note there on the data link between policies and data. We need to be able to measure meaningfully this gender digital gap and then guide those policy interventions. And here also because we see that there is this gap and I gave the example of well if we look at the new policies and we did a review at the end of last year, there were so few that had specific text on gender inclusion and also in this respect. What we also see is that there is a lot of lack of inclusion in those same policies for persons with disabilities. So we see that that's why we find it's really important to take a snapshot from time to time to identify where work is still required. And we call here in response there to your question still, we do call for closer partnerships and collaboration at the national level, regional and national level to invest in tools and techniques for gathering such data. So looking forward to working very closely with UPU and the postal system as well and see where can we find where our data can complement one another. So I hope that answers the question but happy to further elaborate as well as needed. Thank you. Thank you for that Christine and please everybody keep popping your questions in the Q&A, the comments as well that are going in there. We've had an interesting sort of half question, half comment on the role of privacy when it comes to digital empowerment, inclusion and things like that. Do any of the panelists have a comment on privacy or and whether that's an issue when it comes to digital empowerment or any of these sorts of things? Anybody want to comment on that? No. Well you know I think that privacy obviously is critical and data protection is critical and through the DotPost platform the UPU can offer that to to posts that are interested in setting up platforms. You know other than that it is a matter of national legislation. And the DotPost initiative is a very interesting one and who is it still pulled on? Who is the right person for people to contact at the UPU? If you want to find out more about the DotPost and how your postal operator could be part of that and its role in so right phrase, I suppose trustworthiness of the internet, would that be the right way of putting it Susan? Yeah I think that's right. All right. Again here I can also add to that question and what Susan was saying there as well of the initiatives that UPU is undertaking. For those who have children at home there is the Child Online Protection Initiative and guidelines to parents, to educators and really to talk about safety online at home. So there's of course a big responsibility there with us as parents as well but also I mean for us to share with our families more broadly so that young people are made aware of how you stay safe online and you don't have to be scared and how you should do what you shouldn't do and so forth. So we will also pop into the chat maybe the link to where those guidelines and there's a lot of really child-friendly material there as well that can be used very widely in many different languages. Thank you very much for that Christine so please do everybody keep those questions coming in because I'm doing my best to feed them to the panelists. Susan were there any questions that have come through in French that you wish to relay to one of the panelists? Yeah not so far Ian. Not so far all right. I mean there are a few that are in French but there are simply translations of what you and I have prepared to ask in any case. I see. Well Christine you're very popular in the Q&A I've got another question that's coming for you. It says first of all I'm sorry that I'm a man rather than a lady there's no need to apologize everybody but the question goes to the ITU regarding capacity building to the LDCs in the postal sector. How can you assist those who are still struggling and getting quality training for women in the postal sector and I'm sorry I don't quite understand the last bit of it but Christine do you have access to the Q&A there Christine can you see the questions coming from Andrea Rogaziano? Let me see if I can see the question from Andrea. Yes I'm not seeing let me just go on the other one. I think she's saying that there are many people in South Sudan who have no access to this particular this webinar and I suppose that means because of lack of access you know digital access. So how can the UPU and ITU assist in digital access? I mean thank you very much for that clarification. So there's the access component and then there is also which would be in our terminology the connectivity you know bringing connectivity there and then I mean there's a challenge that Rose mentioned also that at the cost of devices once you have that and then there is how you use it the skills that I talked about earlier. So I mean when we talk about women for you're not being able to afford devices or not having access to that wonderful 3G or 4G network that is just kind of up out there above us you know which is the case for most women in these developing countries to be honest how can we then expect these women to know how to use that technology? So I think there are a lot of initiatives out there we see that there is a lot of duplication because we do not of creating the same training content but not building on instead saying well we're doing digital skills training basic you know what you need to know to perhaps use the internet on your phone and so forth but the application of that like basic digital skills for for those who work in the agriculture field or those who are you know having other domains but there is very little of that so that's what we are really trying to to bring those who have in the context of Ethiopia I can speak as one example but there are initiatives also in other countries where we I mean as UN agencies and development partners together with the national stakeholders who come together we share well what content do we have available what content can be translated to the local context a localized but also with the languages across the country and then we see also where there are gaps seeing well no one has yet developed any material on this what what if we work together to develop that and then make sure that we distribute it through our channel so that's really where what I would put out there again let's work together let's look at the local needs and then see what we can do tonight make this happen for more people thank you I'll go ahead Wendy please just from the upu side um the upu has various projects to help the developing countries um in the in the postal air in the postal arena so for example one of our we have the quality of service fund um which the developing countries have access to help them um with technology regarding letter posts etc either technology learning you know whichever they just have to basically put forward a project that would help them with their infrastructure for for the mail and they have a you know they can get it approved also the the upu over the years as put out has initiated some programs especially in Africa to try and and engage the governments the private sector and the postal sector to encourage e-commerce and this was this was um also using training and education and one of the key issues was to the that the the government of the country participating had to commit to putting in policies that were favorable for developing obviously the internet the access to the internet uh the caught keeping the costs low and engaging women and other minorities into the project so there are uh ways that we can help and another one i just keep going back to this is that um using the post offices as a center for accessing the internet as well so um there are programs available also at the upu thank you for that when you now have a quick look through the q and a and see if we've got something else in here um we have had a question come through um from pakistan regarding um gender parity and i know we've talked a lot about sort of um access and also the also within the post there's the issue of gender parity um wendy and susan spoke about mentoring before and that's sort of part part of sort of trying to address the imbalance would that be the right word when it comes to gender parity um how can posts effectively in this how we transform posts this is a question from aisha i hope i pronounced you name correctly um how can we transform the posts effectively in this emergingly emerging digitally innovative world and are there any specific upu projects that women from from pakistan or even from other parts of the world can participate in to learn how to emerge as leaders who can help elevate their own post to be on a par with those in the developing world uh susan or wendy are you able to uh provide some comments on that susan am i taking that okay so i i think again there's a lot of ways that um the posts can support women and girls and you know to succeed in technology and you know we can encourage diversity and inclusive inclusivity in our policies and the postal in the policies inside the postal administrations inside the national governments inside the upu our director general uh spoke about that a little bit earlier and our deputy director general did a very interesting podcast yesterday on that for women's day if you're interested you can also look that up that's available on the web we can also promote education and training i forgot to mention in my previous answer that the upu has a training program called train post and it's all online and it's for it has basically every pretty much every operational topic uh that is necessary to work in the post and people can access it from from the postal administrations can access it and learn at their own own speed so i i think that helps a lot we can host events and conferences like this one engaging women engaging the whole sector into these kinds of discussion raising uh sensitivity uh women i i think the situation won't change unless women are more visible and women are actually at the table helping make policy you know being part of the decision making and we see that changing i think vanessa made a lot of points about that when she was saying what was going on in her administration so so that was really good we can also highlight successful women and posts and that are working in the posts and you know see how they move forward not only in the post in itu for example um and see how they move forward so we can first of all to show it's possible and also to uh shape benchmark on how it was done for example um yeah those are some of the things that i i think that we could take up thanks wendy i'm sorry i was uh looking at a question that came in in french and i was uh uh looking at it so that i could uh interpret it or translate it for vanessa it's it's directed at you and it says how does vanessa manage to recruit women and are you able to monitor the progress of their various activities and if so how you can do that mercredi parité and once a month intervene a woman uh of a digital which is not necessarily a scientific at the base it can be a woman who comes rather from the commerce who comes from other subsidiaries but who exerts jobs uh today digital at the post and usually we intervene with this woman with another woman invited from the outside and it's often an exchange a debate and it's to show to others uh post in the company that it's possible so that's the important initiatives we also very regularly welcome the young girls who are at school in third must do business in the company and we open the doors of the company so that they come to see that they come to see how things are going and that the methods of numerics are not only young men with sweet and capu in front of their computer with the big boxes to do gaming all day here it is to show indeed how it happens the working environment is very important for recruiting and after indeed the follow-up in time i join you the mentoring is very important even the cross mentoring i think we are always to bring to others and others bring us a lot and uh there are leadership programs for women uh that we do it can be uh uh between us on the internet but it can also be with just a small company a startup uh we will mentor it for a half day and we learn a lot to do that because in fact it also participates in young men who participate in these post-sales programs to get into situations uh to give advice so uh it allows them to exercise their leadership so i also think that mentoring is very important uh and encourage them not and um we try of course to put the men in and i think that we also have to talk about it we talk about parity today and i think that it is not necessary to address only women in fact it is a collective subject and so often when we talk about leadership in seminars in these programs we include men because it is them who will be able to talk about it it is them who will be able to realize that indeed when we are in minority it is more difficult to express oneself it is more difficult to be included so here i also wanted to tell you that mentoring and the leadership programs for women we open them we also open them to men and i will give you an anecdote uh one year we met our startups where it was the first year where we had half of the founder half of the founder and in fact uh it was teams uh in their in their small startups they were very monolithic it was only men or only women you see and the set of having put them together in work sessions to work on their economic model to work on their development they started to learn to work on this feeling that there was a huge wealth to share together with points of view very different and a few months later and i answer this question on how we follow them many have called us by telling us well we are inviting you to tell us that that's it we progress we have grown we recruit and we have changed our recruitment modes we will for example recruit a lot more women and women arrive in the structure while it was only a team of three three men who knew each other started to see each other and we follow them like that to see how teams evolve over time so here are several actions actually to lead uh and you have to act a little everywhere and i think there is something to take into account it's uh i think it's a power month i think there are no better words in french i prefer the word in english the power month is very important it must be that uh thank you venessa um susan there's a question we'll try that again susan there's a question uh for rose in the chat and if google translate hasn't misled me i think it's a question about the ongoing support that or ongoing training that the post might offer uh women entrepreneurs so uh i'll get told if i've got it wrong but rose can you just share a little bit about that whether there is any on whether there is and if so what format takes any ongoing support you get from the post because obviously if you've if you're starting a startup that's different to when you're in a mid stage of your business so tell us a bit about that please okay what i would like to say is uh the effort has been done and what is actually lacking for all the women is the loans to equip themselves so that everyone can access uh the digital thing or that you are all going talking about right now because if women could uh uh access loans uh everyone every other woman would equip themselves and they all bought digital and market themselves and the businesses will grow that's what i can say there we go finances come up again um thank you very much for that rose um susan do you have any any other questions have come through on the chat that have caught your eye um that we should or um put to the panelists yeah there's one that i really like uh because i used to be involved in regulatory affairs before i moved to sustainability and uh from a regulator we said we have a question asking which programs uh can regulators be a part of or uh what can be recommended to regulators so that they can can can contribute uh to the gender and digital transformation um i i uh really like that question i'm i'm pleased to hear that regulators want to be involved um what we are seeing right now in the regulatory field is that it's very very important for different fields of regulation to be understood together for instance we have it you here today because telecommunications and internet and posts are all interrelated um in terms of uh being able to to raise gender equality that often comes from from the employment side of regulation or or ministry and um it's just it's very important to to communicate together with other um other areas of regulation and and be able to to uh to uh to make sure that that they go hand in hand and that there are no obstacles and regulators can always you know do their best to jump in and try to make things uh more um uh accessible for the post if the post want to want to help and want to um want to provide programs and i see Vanessa nodding her head i wonder if she has any anything to add to that i'm concerned it's when we have the obligation to do that we find treasure of ingenuity and uh that we innovate and uh when at the level of the law uh and there i'm talking about for France the law comes on the percentage of women leaders to have in the companies um when we ourselves apply something that is not law but we apply the quota on the startups etc when we are forced to look at that we go even a little further now look at those who you know mix the generations too uh mix the seniors the youngest in the company etc it's all the points of view that are important to mix the diplomas there are people who are not diploma more diploma etc and that's what makes all the wealth so when we have a law that is imposed a regulation and we follow it uh there we will find just the resources and we will find solutions and i think we also need that we could not have us the parity if we did not have actions put in place by the government also to impose that at the level of for example schools if there are no quota forms at the level of schools uh we can tend to zero percent of women in the scientific fields in terms so it's very important indeed that there are actions uh that are done by the ecosystem and the state and the regulation is important thank you for that Vanessa um we've had a couple of questions come in from the chat and in the q&a about what role men play in all of this whether as a agenda champion which is a role that a couple of posts seem to have embraced but i i suppose perhaps even deeper than that when uh christine you mentioned in your opening comments about involvement or involvement of of uh of women in policymaking and in consultative processes um what what does that actually mean in general and what does that mean what could that mean for our postal and telecommunications sector thank you thank you very much ian i think it can mean different things i think we need to be vocal about things that are going well vocal about what our aspirations are and i think Vanessa talked about that as well having clear statements of where we are hoping to go and then what and then having countries then translate well what does that mean to us but also within our own organizations and i can speak to to itu and in having role models and champions also within the organization is very important having leadership we recently have our first female secretary general that is a role model that is possible to aspire towards such a role even in a very technical domain but also when we look at our in within our technical let's say study groups and other decision-making organs that there are women there at in those posts leading big conferences where where where guidance for the rest of the world is being created that it's really like you're seeing the 50 50 there or you're aspiring to 50 50 and you're taking measures every year to improve on that so that's really what i would like to say you know we need to not just do the talking but also do the doing and make it happen and show that it can be done even in every one of our domains that we are responsible for thank you and i've done enough sues no wendy do you have either of you have something to add on that i i think um christine was uh you know pretty much covered everything but i i totally agree with um what she said about in in opening men can open their eyes and and um maybe be sensitive and mindful of what's going on around them and maybe some things that maybe they could change um i know even from our experience here in the i b uh that things are changing i mean we we sit we we're sitting on committees and a lot of the committees because we we have a maybe more males working in the i b in the international bureau than than females and now there's a new policy that a female has to be on every committee there has to be a woman's voice on every committee and and and these things look like they're you know taken for granted they should be taken for granted should be clear but it's not because legacy-wise it it just wasn't really thought of as i said in my opening remarks that's just the way it was and people didn't question now people are questioning and and people are much more aware and and i think that i can see things changing you know not even that slowly things are changing quite quickly in the last year or so at least in my organization so i i think that that's that's really good thank you for that Wendy well another interesting question that's come in in the q and a sections with regarding not just involvement of women but involvement of women who may have intellectual disabilities or physical disabilities um and and how they can be involved in the post um now this is this question specifically about how many are working at upu headquarters and i'm not expecting anybody to come up with a statistic off the top of their head but i i think it is an interesting it's a good point though how can um the postal sector make their doors open to employees who are who have a disability as well as being able to serve customers whether they're an entrepreneur or an individual who have who who have disabilities can anybody would anybody like to share quick comments on that bearing in mind we only have nine minutes left i know this is the topic we could talk about for an hour any quick comments on that from anybody i can give you uh just a quick overview of the the social services that posts traditionally as well as in the last few years have offered and for many uh posts the vulnerable are customers that they are very mindful of and they have special services uh for instance for the elderly they will especially laplace frost is very very active in this area as well as other posts checking in on the elderly on on people who are are vulnerable not able to leave their homes these types of of customers with special needs they have a service to to check in on them we have educational programs worldwide through the post and other social programs to various really to mention but we do have a something called the social services guide from the upu and i'll put that in the chat that lists the the services that that posts provide and the quite wide variation of services that they already provide and are encouraged to to develop as well thank you very much for that uh susan um please everybody um all the participants we've only got a couple of minutes left but please do keep chucking your quest chucking typing your questions in the q and i uh we i'd love to continue answering as many questions as we possibly can rose i want to ask is a question i've been holding on to i really want to ask you a question you would talk we were talking about um role models and peer support and mentoring now that you are establishing yourself as an entrepreneur and an online business yep do you find yourself in that role as a mentor um and are young women or girls either looking to you or asking you questions about how they can start their own business okay uh from what i've been trained and what i've learned and how i've grown i've been sharing with all the young girls we call them the girl child and also the young uh the old women that are like talented in their own businesses but trying to market their business whatever they are doing i really uh say i appreciate and i'm sharing with others and they are encouraging them to also go digital so i appreciate i really appreciate what this input has done to me because a lot of i'll say people around me or people in the area where i'm doing my business you have seen the development from marketing on the digital uh market we call it uh our zimbabwe email post marketing more so from there people have seen the changes and have shared to be honest with you uh our zimpost here have really done a lot to me and now i even have the confidence even talking on the zoom like what i'm doing right now do you know this is my first time but if you remember when i started i could not even speak a continuous sentence which is something they are really working on well there we go i um that's that's a great story thank you very much uh for sharing rose and thank you for sharing your experiences um we really appreciate it's always great but this is a global event and it's i think it's very powerful to hear a real life what what policy is translating into action that makes sense everybody anyway i'm just i'm the lone male voice here i should probably shut up and get on with the questions shouldn't i yes not at all as we've said that repeatedly we need men to be part of this otherwise it's never going to happen only 50 percent of the population cannot achieve gender equality everyone has to be willing to do it so you are so welcome in to be here well thank you very much for that season um well there's a question that's coming from brita at um in mexican post mexico post mexico you know who you are brita um as a continuation of this idea of the question really of how to get people in especially rural and remote areas or areas where there might be no mobile phone coverage no internet coverage how to get them involved um this is not a problem it's limited just to say um a developing nation it's also an issue in parts of the world where it's just you know it's the low population density i mean there are parts of australia where there's no mobile phone coverage or there might not be internet coverage so the question is how people don't have a signal don't have internet what can we do to help solve this situation um christine i feel like we've answered the fair part of that already is there anything else that you'd like to add on this idea of connectivity um or sorry meaningful connectivity to use your phrase and how it can be used to help not the disadvantaged or um help women get connected or even women becoming entrepreneurs um i would say there i mean also to to respond to the question in many countries there is what we call a universal service and access fund that really seeks to reach out to those unprofitable areas and there is often a link there to the regulator in those countries those regulators are often the ones regulating both posts and telecom and in the past those funds have been used and they're still i mean they're going through quite a lot of innovation at the moment they were just used for that access piece so if you had kind of coverage in that area it was fine it didn't matter if maybe the school wasn't able to get access to the school so they're going through a transformation now that those public domains like the post office i would imagine as well the health center the school can be connected and through those connected uh spots in the community the people of the community can access so i would just uh i would just maybe end on that notion like there are mechanisms in place they're not always implemented but they could be so let's all together make the voices heard of what needs to be done and then see how we can make it happen thank you thank you christine really interesting question is coming from alex and that picks up on the theme that's come up a few times during this discussion which is about access to finance um and so it might just be access to banking in some instances where you might have an unbanked population so one alex's comment is one of the areas where posts can truly help vulnerable women is providing such women with savings accounts helps give money safe um and assists in other areas um when it comes to things like accessing government services increasingly governments expect to have interactions with their government with their citizens digitally does anybody have any comments on things like how posts can provide help provide access to finance or access to savings accountants and things like that any i've only got a couple of minutes left will anybody love to shove lift their hand up anyone wendy thank you so yeah i told i financial services are and the ability to access banking and financial services is is really basic to be able to start any business um and in rural areas it is very difficult not only in rural areas but in a lot of the developing countries women especially have problems accessing banking they in in fact in some cases they need their husband's approval etc so it's not only the access to the bank it's actually being able to open a bank account the posts um the certain posts in in countries do have the ability to provide financial services this again is a regulatory issue um the the national the government has to agree to empower the post to to provide financial services but we've seen that when they do provide financial services through the post it is um it provides a very easy access and it is taken up and the it helps to grow the economy so yes i feel like that again there's another topic we could talk for an hour on we don't have an hour everybody we've got probably 30 seconds left um great questions come in about the profitability of posts themselves and their ability to have funds available to invest in these sorts of programs i think part of the answer to that might be that the is the upu what was it called the development fund what was it called again quality of service fund quality of service fund so that could be that could be accessed by by by governments or by postal operators themselves susan was it not much it's it's postal operators through uh the fund uh call for uh call for projects okay so if you're interested in that go to the upu website or give susan a ring she'll tell you all about it um this has been a fantastic conversation and it's not a conversation we should reserve just for one day of the year it's actually a conversation we should be having throughout the year otherwise we're no better than those people who just post fancy things on linkedin once a year about how they support women and then do nothing else for the rest of the year so i would encourage everybody who's taken part as uh you know in the webinar whether you are a panelist whether you've asked a question where you've been listening please get involved somehow and tell the rest of the world uh as what somebody said tell i think well been christine tell us your wins right i could tell you blokes men aren't shy about sharing their wins there that's a small observation anyway possibly unwanted and unnecessary um a big thank you to all of our panelists who have shared their expertise and i wish we could have had longer to get more out of each of you but i think there's certainly the basis for future conversations um thanks especially to Rose from Zimbabwe for sharing her journey as an entrepreneur and hopefully it's been inspiring not just to the people you speak to Rose but to other people on who have taken part in this event today but they will go out into their own communities and find their own roses out there and as a part of that that idea of more inclusion of women not just in the world but digitally as well thank you to all our panelists again thank you to the upu team for putting this together thank you to the translators who have struggled no doubt with my impenetrable accent but thank you again very much for um making this event accessible as well to people who are french speakers rather than english speakers uh susan do you have any final comments before we wrap it up i have taken frantic notes because there are so many good ideas that came out of this today that we're going to try and put into practice in our sustainability program again fantastic so thank you all for your participation again keep the conversation going keep the networking going wherever it is that you network and well we look forward to bringing another webinar another upu webinar to you in the future we always talk about very interesting stuff so keep your eye out and make sure you subscribe to the upu mailing list go to the upu website and you'll find a way to subscribe there so you get a notification every time the upu runs one of these events oh and remember to subscribe to the upu voicemail podcast it's fantastic it's hosted by me and uh you should definitely listen to that if you didn't get enough of me today or if for some reason your audio didn't work properly and you couldn't hear me for parts of today thanks again everybody enjoy the rest of your day and we look forward to seeing or hearing from you next time we host a upu webinar thank you everyone