 Hello and welcome to a panel discussion exploring St. Lucia's readiness for a more inclusive society for the blind and visually impaired. This program is part of activities to observe Blindness Awareness Month 2022 under the theme I'm More Than What You See, spearheaded by the St. Lucia Blind Welfare Association. My name is Jesse Leance, Public Relations Officer of the Association, and I will be staring what we anticipate would be dynamic and insightful discourse in this program. And now to introduce our panelists, we have first on Mr. Anthony Avril, Executive Director of the St. Lucia Blind Welfare Association. We have Ms. Jessica Jacobi, Vision Education Support Teacher from the Ministry of Education. We have Ms. Signer Matthew McCarvige, Senior Policy Analyst from the Office of the Prime Minister, and we also have Ms. Binter Ernest, Human Rights Policy, doing Human Rights Policy within the government of St. Lucia, as well as Ms. Eustatia Felician, Supervisor of the Denry Child Development Center and a Disability Activist. The last two will be joining us later on in the program. Welcome ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. Mr. Avril, I want to start with you, one of the common cliches when it comes to public engagement on social inclusion for the blind and visually impaired is that there are, quote, barely any persons that have this type of disability in my area, in my neighborhood, in my country. I want us to establish in this program, let's define what the obvious to blindness, but also visual impairment. And if you could report on the rate of people in St. Lucia who are blind and visually impaired. Well, thank you, Justice. I want to thank you for giving us this opportunity, particularly as you have already established. This is the, around the time of year, we celebrate Blindness Awareness Month. This year it started from the end of April and will continue through June. This was, of course, misconception and we lived with it for many years. But it is what that drove this inclusion-blind welfare association into the direct and deliberate effort to do one, one, educate solutions with regard to the fact that we have people living among us affected by blindness and vision impairment. Two, educate inclusion regarding the fact that blindness is not the end of life. And three, educate inclusion with regard to the fact that blind, VIP people have the right to enjoy all the privileges of society. But even more so, they also have a right to be given the opportunity to contribute to the continuing development of their own society. So we have one of the hallmarks of the St. Lucia Blind Welfare Association from its beginning back in the 60s to date. We have been relentless in pursuing this effort. And this is what that drove us to start to mainstream children in the regular school system. So the St. Lucia Blind Welfare Association literally drove government in starting an education program in the regular school system for children living with blindness and vision impairment because they had them in the schools, but they did not even realize that. St. Lucia's understanding of blindness, it has to do with those persons with absolutely no sight, not even light perception. How wrong? For example, I have light perception in my right eye, and what that is, I am able to see the difference between light and darkness. That's all. So I shouldn't be surprised if you asked me to turn on the lights? No, you should not be. Absolutely should not be. But a number of persons, ah, you see E-Blind and you ask people to turn on the lights. That man can see that, that man playing trick, you understand. But anybody who is not able to use your sight to function normally, it means that the sight has an issue. The sight has become impaired and compromised so that you find through the years, you have people affected with physical blindness, have huge issues, but also those with low vision who had their own kinds of issues as well, they were not able to see, to do what they need to do, but yet people believe that they are just playing a part. But there is, we can go for hours on these things, yes, and I know you have a number of questions here for us. What have we done? In terms of transforming the society, we started with education. We also formed social groups, like clubs and so on, and we engage Lucians at all levels of society, from the rum shops to you know what. There was a time in St. Lucia, if they see someone like me in a social event, we have come a long way from that. I don't hear that quite so much anymore. However, we still have a long way to go. So the question is, how ready are we to be an inclusive society? Not ready yet, but we are on the way. Okay. One of the problems that we've had, and you said that people usually say, but we don't have blind people in our community. This drove us to start what we call a mapping and registration program. In this day and age, we are tired of hearing people say that they don't have blind people in the community. So we are making a special effort to register every single individual living with physical blindness or some form of vision impairment. And we need the assistance of every solution to ensure that we can achieve this. We have relied and make good use of projection estimates, how many persons you may have that are blind in the population, using WHO and other estimates. But we want, we've been the next, we started last year, we want to be the next couple years that we will be able to speak from an educated standpoint that the solution's population of persons living with blindness and vision impairment happens to be A, B, C. Okay. So this is going, it took us a while because although we met various groups including governments, ministries and groups and so on, it took a while for them to understand the need for such a program. But now I'm happy to report that many of the groups have indicated to us that they now have a better appreciation for it and that they are being, they are a lot more forthcoming. Why should we do this, Jesse? It would help us to develop appropriate response strategy when you know what you have, the size of what you have and what their needs are, then it puts you in a better place to plan appropriate intervention. Now we do not only want to know numbers and what their needs are, but we also want to know what have they got to offer because blindness affects people at any stage of life. You could be born blind, but you could also become blind later in life. In your 50s, your 60s, 70s, 80s, your 20s, it doesn't really matter because it has no respect of persons. It will strike at any point, any place. And there are so many conditions that contribute to it. So we need to be a lot more aware. Absolutely. Okay. So to people who are blind and visually impaired, social inclusion means being able to participate in all aspects of life, from family to your neighbourhood, your community, groups and so on, even up to the national level, to operate at the fullest extent possible. I want to ask you, Mrs. Markovich, if you could speak to us about government's interventions and intentions toward achieving a more inclusive society for the blind and visually impaired. As well as speaking to the extent to which the blind and visually impaired have provided input in the planning process. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much for this and thank you for inviting me here. I would also just like to just start off with just giving a bit of a background into it. So, Office of the Prime Minister has a customer service enhancement project and the purpose of this project is to improve customer service in the ministry in which we are working. Right now, we're working with the Department of Physical Planning. Whilst working with that department, we had a meeting with the Senuisia Blind Welfare Association and also the National Council of Unforperson with Disabilities. And speaking to them in terms of what are some of the areas that we need to improve on with customer service, it became very clear to us that a lot of what was being said was matters that should have been implemented, that these are things that we ought to have been working on. We're genuinely the idea that we need to have a policy that can focus on customer service improvement for persons who are visually impaired, blind, persons with disabilities and also elderly persons. And so we started off a committee and that committee comprises of members of the Senuisia Blind Welfare Association, the National Council of Unforperson with Disabilities, the National Council of Unforperson with Older Persons. We also have the Ministry of Health, a part of the committee, the Department of Public Service is also part of it and physical planning. And so we have been working with the committee now to look at all of these areas. So one of the areas in particular are the physical components. How can we now improve the government service to make it more accessible for persons who are blind, visually impaired, persons with disabilities, elderly persons, what can we do to improve? We also look at it in terms of the customer service. When persons come to us from this group, how are they being treated? How can we ensure that they feel that the services are accessible to them? And we also looked at the employee aspect of it. How can we improve on our facilities, improve on our training so that persons who are visually impaired, blind, elderly, that they feel that they are part of it and they don't feel in any way that they are secluded? Because one thing that we don't want to create is two societies where one society feels they are able-bodied, they have access to everything. And those persons who have any form of disability, they find themselves not feeling included. So, so far, we have gone through this process. We have actually created a number of details. One of the things that we have recognized is that a lot of what we have, that we are working on to include in the policy, they are doable. For example, training, training our officers, training to understand the needs of persons who fall in those various categories. Training our employees so that they understand what persons need as well. So, at this stage, we are at the point of just drafting up this policy. We have already gone through the process of getting the information. And we are now at the drafting stage and also looking at funding. How can we get funding to look at in terms of facilities, et cetera. You know, what sort of support that we can get. Because it's, you know, we want to ensure that, hey, yes, that we have the policy in place, but that we also have the facilities that are going to ensure that, you know, it's, yeah, that access is available. We also want to have a lot of our PR done in that regard as well. So, at some point, we will be doing a lot of campaigning because there has to be more awareness of the needs of persons who are visually impaired, who are blind, who are, you know, have a form of disability. You know, it's just critical in our society that we ensure that every single person has an opportunity to showcase their skills and to be part, because we are all gifted in some way. And it's important that every single person has an opportunity to explore their gifts and to feel that, to feel the level of independence that is necessary. Wonderful. So we are well on our way to a disability policy draft. Yes, so we, yes, yes. At this point, we have already, we have the content and it's crafting it and then having discussions with our stakeholders so that we can have a document that we can now present to the cabinet and to get their views on it. Yes. Okay, wonderful. So, Mr. Everill, we're seeing a distillation of priorities for persons with disabilities here in St. Lucia. We focus on persons living with blindness and visually impairment. How do the ongoing interventions and existing arrangements made for persons living with blindness and visual impairment, how does it coalesce with the perspectives of, or rather, how does it address the challenges of the Blind Welfare Association members who have had the opportunity to indicate their needs living in the St. Lucia society? Well, we are very happy that the process is continuing. The challenge is there, we are all challenged to ensure that we can bring this process to sort of fruition and so that it begins to be transformed to have real meaning for the persons living in the various communities. They, for us, inclusion means that we dream of the time when anyone who is living with blindness or vision impairment in anywhere in St. Lucia will not necessarily have to come to the St. Lucia Blind Welfare Association for service. That the services that are being provided in his or her community will be accessible to him or her. That the services are so fashioned that the needs of constituents with blindness and vision impairment are also being addressed. Now, we have been agitating for policy for some time, for quite some time, back in the 90s, late 80s, 90s, and it was not only in St. Lucia, all over the world, we were agitating, you had the World Blind Union, the Disabled People's International and so on, the International Labour Organization, another important vehicle that has been used to try and change the world, the way that the disability issues are being handled in the world and St. Lucia is part of the globe. So, it took some time to the point where there were some significant breakthroughs, which we will be addressing during the course of this discussion and we forgot to international agreement and so on, policies and what have you, which of every nation who are members of the United Nations are party too and we will be addressing this later in this discourse. But we have to be able to find a mechanism, a framework that makes these things real in little St. Lucia and that's where we are at and that's why I am so happy when we find people with the kind of passion Signer has for this project for what she is doing out there with her group and then our other panelists, Ms. Ernest and so on. So, it is saying to me that we are beginning to get somewhere, but it has to be continued. Let's look at sports, for example. Blind VI students in our various schools should be made to be part of physical activity and physical training, okay? We still see that there are some places where they are not as involved as they should be, okay? Even at this time, at this point in time. So, this is just to give an idea of what from the St. Lucia Blind Welfare Association standpoint what we mean inclusion, okay? We, for example, as part of this blindness, the blindness awareness month activity for this year, we made a special effort to reaching out to communities why is it that you have St. Lucia's always slamming dominoes all over the place? How many persons in their own community who are blind, some of them used to play dominoes before, but now they have lost their sight, they are thinking that they cannot play dominoes anymore and so they are just being left out, you know? So, we have made a special effort reaching out to the communities and said, no, no, no, no, hey, you know, we provide opportunities for your fellow, your colleagues who are not able to see normally now that they can join and enjoy some good dominoes slamming and sharing sapats with you. So, we have the special activity at Opicon recently and also one in the Castri City Hall and the next community being targeted will be Strasale. And so, it's just, we are demonstrating to people that there is no, blind VIP folks have to be involved in all aspects of life. And as Signor said, we forgot to, you know, I have a son and now I am a granddad, because he has a son. Blindness did not get in my way. And Jessica is indicating that she may well go down that road too and I know there are some suitors. I hope she made a good choice, right? But this is a reality, you know? We are living, we are experiencing life. Some of us are in relationship and it breaks down. It happens to blind people too. Some blind people are divorced, you know, whatever. These are the facts of life. We are living, we are part of the society. We didn't come from Mars or Jupiter. No, we are here. So, we are saying if we speak inclusion, we need inclusion. We know we have to make special provision in a number of instances. For example, before the discussion started, we were looking at some of the critical areas. One of the areas where persons with disabilities are experiencing some discomfort is when it comes to transportation. You know, there are some islands, like for example in Trinidad, they have something called dialeride. We are not there yet, but I can tell you there is a great need for something like that. Okay? And so many, you know, we can go on and on. But the world, even the great creator, did not make everything happen in one day. All right? So, but we have to continue to aim towards total inclusion. Yes, we are biting it incrementally. But little by little, we will achieve the goal. Okay. Ms. Dragobie, I want to come to your inching toward a break. So, I want to hear from you before that. Globally, we have the blind and visually impaired being at particular risk of being out of school due to parental poverty. We have factors like social stigma, also discrimination and lack of capacity of the education systems to meet their needs. Speak to us on, if you can, St. Lucia's journey toward a more inclusive educational system. What has been so far achieved and how far do we need to go? Okay, good day and thank you for the opportunity to be here and to be a part of this panel. St. Lucia has come a long way, but from my experience, regionally and internationally, we have a very long way to go still, but we are moving along. We are even a little further than Trinidad, I believe, who started a long time before us. Before we had the system where children who are blind or visually impaired would be at what was then the school for the blind, but in the late 80s or early 90s, the association began the integration program where students were integrated into the quote-unquote normal schools or the regular schools, and we have itinerant teachers. I am a product of the system because I was integrated into the Avon Maria Girls Primary School, and I now serve as an itinerant teacher. There has been great progress because even in my time as a student, technology was not what it is now, and so we're moving from having to be totally dependent on Braille to being able to use technology, and being totally dependent on Braille, we only had a few teachers who transcribed Braille into print, and so it was a challenge in terms of getting grades on time or even getting access to print material that we needed in Braille. But with the technology now, students can just go online or our students can type their assignments and submit and stuff, so we are really moving ahead also in terms of sensitization. Because of a lot of the work that the association has been doing, there is more sensitization and more acceptance of persons who are blind and visually impaired in the regular schools, not only by the teachers or school personnel, but also by other students. Our society is becoming slowly more open-minded to accepting persons who are blind and visually impaired in the education system. Well, I can say to an extent because there have been some experiences and it will not always be perfect, but it is my hope that we will continue to advocate and persons especially, the authorities, whether it be through the Ministry of Education, the Sarfa Lewis Community College, and whether it will be open-minded to accepting and understanding that we can do it just like any other student and we have been able to do it. A lot of barriers have to be broken to get to where we are at now because persons who are blind and visually impaired, sometimes it is fought or was fought that we were not able to do and so a lot of work has to be done to ensure that we allowed the opportunities to be able to do and the other thing too, to whom much is given, much is expected, so when you're given the opportunity, the important thing is ensuring that you do what it is that you have to do, take responsibility and produce, which is personally one of the things I've really been trying to do. With the mention of treaties that St. Lucia has ratified, the Maraca Treaty, excuse me, when implemented, it will really help St. Lucia because it is a treaty that allows persons more access to material, persons who are blind, visually impaired and pre-disabled to material that we can take this material and make them accessible or we can access it from other countries without having any copyright infringement. So I'm looking forward to this treaty being implemented in St. Lucia so that our education system can benefit from it. Wonderful, thank you very much for that, Miss Jacoby. Just before we go to break, I just want to hear from you. What has been your personal experience in terms of the nature and scale of exclusion and inclusion here in St. Lucia growing up? You have definitely been one of the, should I say, shining agents for persons living with blindness and visual impairment here in St. Lucia, being able to develop yourself and attain much success on your merits. So speak to us about your experience. My experience has been a somewhat challenging one, I will say, but very rewarding. When you are the one who has to break a lot of those barriers, it can become very tiring or it can seem to be hard work, but when you push and you see what's happening and who can benefit from what you have gone through, then it makes it a very good experience. I can say that being someone who was born blind and who has gone up to the tertiary level of education for the St. Arthur Lewis Community College, being the first student who is blind to have attended the college and to have less than Lucia and to go out to study in Trinidad, at UA at the St. Augustine campus, there was not yet a disability services department, which by the time I left, there was now a thriving one. And so for me, yes, it has been challenging, but it has been rewarding, not only for me, but for a lot of people out there. I'm grateful that I have been able to serve internationally as well. I served as the Human Rights Officer for the World Blind Union for almost two years. I'm still a volunteer with them. And I'm looking forward to not only be used internationally, but my country, St. Lucia, recognizing my skills and my abilities and my passion that I will be used by my country as well to be able to contribute to making our society one that is even more inclusive and one that can understand the plight of and take into consideration the needs of people who are blind and visually impaired. Okay, wonderful. Thank you very much, Ms. Jacoby, for that input and insight, actually. We are due for our first and only break in this program. You have just heard from Mr. Anthony Avril, the Executive Director at the St. Lucia Blind Welfare Association, and also Ms. Jessica Jacoby, a vision education support teacher from the Ministry of Education, and she's part of the blind and visually impaired community of speaking of that. Also, Mr. Avril. And we also have Ms. Signor Matthew Makarovich, Senior Policy Analyst from the Office of the Prime Minister. So they have been speaking with you, opening up the discussion on St. Lucia, exploring the extent to which we are ready for a more inclusive society for the blind and visually impaired. When we do come back from this very short break, we would have had Ms. Makarovich, sorry about that, and Ms. Jacoby swapped with Ms. Ernest, Human Rights Policy from the Government of St. Lucia and Ms. Eustacia Felicia, Supervisor of the Dennery Child Development Centre and Disability Activists, coming on to speak to us. We have so much more to speak on. We're talking employment, accessibility to infrastructure, just basic facilities here in St. Lucia. Are we ready? Stay with us. T-Boutique, Changer, Distance Social, Six-Pierre, Rodional Lot, Ika Toa Vaitan, Siu Sentikou Pakodial, Quarantine Co, Partware Contact, Epilot, and Coutetwapé Esposé. C'est unequillé, Free 1-1-0-B, Népo-clinique Yopueu. Les Pays à Dimiakle, Savledi, Les Supermaquettes, FOMACI, Epi-80M, Yo Accessam, Avancé Tetsue, Pays à Clé-en-Play, Savledi, Tout Bagai Femi, Avencatois. C'est vi protocole, Comme sorti par Biwo, Indication Santé. Nous tout ensemble, S'assover, Vémin Corona, Si nous toutes, Jidla, A toute-née. She's been watching, Waiting, Wondering, When the sands of time Will give way to a tide of change, And for yesterday and today To become, For a time when her son can Kiss the cheeks of your loved one, And her stars can twinkle In her honeymoon skies. When her earthly embrace Will reassure and calm your soul, She has risen to meet the divine Safe harbor to all who reach her shores, To the shoulder, A precious reminder of experience. Thank you so much for staying tuned. This is a panel discussion Exploring Saint Lucia's readiness For a more inclusive society For the blind and visually impaired. This program is part of activities Under the US Awareness Month, 2022, under the theme I am more than what you see Is being spearheaded by The Saint Lucia Blind Welfare Association. We are continuing the discussion Coming off of insightful, dynamic Conversation just from this past Break. We heard from Mr. Averill, Executive Director of the Saint Lucia Blind Welfare Association. Also, Ms. Jackaby, a vision education Support teacher. We also heard From Ms. Signam, Matthew Officer of the Prime Minister, speaking on some Of the interventions from the government To make our space, our society More inclusive for the blind And visually impaired. We heard That there are plans in the works for A disability policy And that will guide the way We are able to interact With the blind and visually impaired Here in Saint Lucia. And of course Grant them more accessibility With various services. We have swapped Ms. Jackaby and Ms. Makarevich for Ms. Binta Ernest. She does human Rights policy with the government of Saint Lucia As well as Ms. Eustacia Felicia, she's the supervisor Of the Denry Child Development Center and Disability Activist. So thank you very much for being here And thanks to the two panelists Who just got off. Thank you so very much. We want to continue the Conversation. We spoke a little Bit about education before we got Off the break. I now want to touch A little bit on employment And what that looks like for Someone who is blind or visually impaired Here in Saint Lucia, Ms. Avril Employment, it greatly contributes To the social inclusion Of people with disabilities without a Doubt and being able to earn wages Rely on yourself, be independent Your dignity, productivity Gives you a sense of purpose Hearing some of our members Mr. Avril, that It is a point of, you know, Concerned for them and particularly In this post-COVID climate That we economic climate that we are Living in. If you could just speak to Where the association is at in terms Of guiding and supporting members Towards gainful Sustainable employment That aligns with their individual Skills and aspirations. And also What has been the reception from Corporate Saint Lucia? You have certainly You are hitting the nail on the Head, in fact It looks like you are Good butter Play cricket He loves sports We can Educate, we can Rehabilitate We can do all of these Great things But until we can provide Access To what the ILO called Decent And what we used to call Gainful Employment The job is not done Because At the end of it A person Wants to be able To own A living And it is incumbent On society to ensure That the right Environment Is Allows Such development And that should include Both Private And public Sectors Public and private sectors They are equally important Where that is concerned So Yes A few of our people Have been able to access Employment But it is just a few The majority Of persons who are living with Blindness and vision impairment Are not employed And Should that be? No Particularly in this day and age So the solution Blind Welfare Association Has been Doing its best It Introduced Blind VI students to Computer technology And various Types of the technology That is now available We want them To ensure that they are Properly trained So that it can be used As means of Accessing employment We see A lot of Activities are being generated Online and including Employment So people who are Who Are living with a limited mobility This seems to be a sector That could Open up A world of possibilities for them And Some of our people However When it comes to employment We are not only concerned We forget To the elitist side Of Our activities The people who have been able to Access That level of Academic knowledge And skills To access some jobs But we are also thinking About those Who are perhaps At the lower end of the scale So that We need to be addressing The needs around And that's where It's a challenge for us Okay So I remember when I was developing the Club 60 Program Back in the 90's And One gentleman Asked a question I think he was from For us all He says Mr. Avuil He has done all these things But For a long time You have worked For many years And I was taken aback By this question Technology is great But The whole It is changing the whole Dynamics Now what are you going to do Because you have to cater for everyone So it calls For a country To be creative Use all the creativity Skills that we have And to ensure That All of our people Have opportunity to Descent employment And this The Central Land Welfare Association Jesse Has Tried many things Including we looked at the Recycling for example Because we saw Great opportunities there In fact we can see great opportunities There But The way it was done We pick up trash And we send it away to Asia or wherever Our thinking is that How We should focus on how to Convote trash To cash And in this way We would be able to create employment opportunity For some of our people At the lower end Of scales So that Employment should be It's not just about Mouthing it But we should understand What it takes To create it How can we make use Of the material that are available to us My grandmother told me once She says Certainly see See in place Good day Good day But we don't learn How to live Since Lucia is blessed God give us enough to survive But we have to learn How to How to manage it And that's our issue Tying up with that To have a greater Appetite And passion for things Local I'm going into Areas that are not really But it contributes to this discussion So I have Sighted them to show That we need to engage In a range Of activities For us to be able To address the employment Needs Of persons At various level Of experience And skills It is a significant problem Employment is huge And our people are screaming They need jobs They need jobs And we have to find ways To provide access To jobs for them And this has to be Not just only A government policy It has to be A policy Which is Which is a private sector To buy into And what I usually say Is that look The persons who are currently employed So if it's so happened That their vision become compromised Are you going to just send them home? What about The investment that you have made In their development? Their training and development? Don't you think you'll be depriving your company Of a significant Investment That you have made? The resources that you have spent? So there has to be a way To ensure that they are continuing to be employed And in that way You will also be able to provide openings For others out there And you can well Be part of your establishment And can also Contribute To the Prosperity Of your company So it's because All of us to take interest Because the interest That we take Would be ours We ourselves Who are fully sighted Many persons Who used to be fully sighted And not now So we have to plan ahead When we are changing society We are changing it for our benefits It's not just for a few It's for all of us And for our children yet to be born Thank you very much for that Mr. Avril I now want to open you Miss We've heard employment Working education Speak to Mr. Avril A 70 year journey In terms of advocacy for the blind And visually impaired in St. Lucia It's quite a journey We started Back in the 50s With the Women Association They sponsored the first Two Young St. Lucians and children And sent them to school in Trinidad So what does advocacy We've heard a bit from Mr. Avril But what does that advocacy look like In 2022 For The blind and visually impaired Miss Felicia Good morning, thanks Good afternoon, thanks for having me The issues we had When Mr. Avril and them started And the women came Together to send the children to school The issues still remain What does it look like Of course The way we're going to tackle the issues And strategies that we're going to use Would change, but the issues still remain When Miss Avril began speaking initially Said about when people would say Where that blind person is going to That still exists In communities we still have that Exist I'm not sure if it's funny The unfortunate thing Is that sometimes it comes from Places you don't expect it to So you would take a child to the hospital Or you'd try to enroll Your child at school and somebody wants to know What your child is doing there Because your child has a disability Your child cannot see what is the child Doing there, and even at schools We have issues where if a parent has Even if a parent knows that the child has A disability or the child is visually impaired Or blind and chooses not to tell the principal And enrolls the child at school When the child gets into school The first thing is not to embrace And integrate and include They're going to call the line welfare Or call the education officer And say that this child is not supposed to be here And what are you all going to be doing Or how are you all going to support the child And it wasn't I mean I think I'm old enough When we went to school If a child came to the school Whoever presented at the school The teacher did the best they could for the child That does not happen anymore We still look like we Education And not just grassroots education We have to start educating persons Who are supposed to know better And I'm talking about nurses and teachers So you're saying we have regressed In terms of our attitudes towards people Living with blindness? I'm not sure if it's a regression Or if it's a thing like Mr. Avril And Blind Welfare has done the work too well So now people don't feel that They need to be doing it Okay so now that we have somebody else Who's doing it and the government has started special education So we have special education centers We have special education teachers We have Blind Welfare Association So it's not our problem So if we see the problem Nobody's trying to include We're going to refer it to the relevant person When we refer it to the persons We think that are the relevant persons We're not referring to ask for how do I How can I deal with this And how can I solve this Yo Mr. Avril, one of yours over there What are you going to do about it That kind of thing So from that kind of space How we reach The public would have to be different What we say to them and how we reach them What we expect of them If we build an inclusive society Because a lot of the times We can be integrated and not included Okay So a child has a visual impairment And if it is known to SLBW That the child has a visual impairment The child will go to a regular school With assistance What happens when the itinerant teacher Is not there could be something else altogether The child may be included in the setting The child is integrated into the setting But not included into the school Or into the school activities And one very important point Mr. Avril pointed out Was physical education So the child is going to sit out physical education Not because the child wants to sit out Physical education But because the teacher has not gotten a way To involve the child Or include the child into the special education Into the physical education So that child will have to sit out Physical education Even in employment too There are some employers Who are reluctant to hire persons Who are blind of visual impaired Or with any other disabilities Because they think it's going to be a liability What happens if that person hurts themselves And they are not responsible And of course it's going to take a little extra To train them into doing the activity And they have to think about all of that Unless and until we Well, us as a society Changes how we see And we view persons who are blind of visual impaired Or persons with disabilities And we do not look at people as people's responsibility So if you are blind You are blind welfare's responsibility And I'm going to blame Mr. Avril So now anytime you see somebody's blind Of visual impaired, they are blind welfare's thing They are not ours And that's where we have to look When we start to look at everybody As ours And I pointed out in another forum Some time ago Disability issues Are always an afterthought We come in after everybody has thought Of all the other groups And after Until and unless somebody with a disability Keeps some noise Then and only then They become an issue I'm hoping that With the disability policy that's coming on stream We definitely see so far that We have engagement in the planning process Well before implementation And that's a good thing Because a lot of the times we find that They plan for persons with disabilities Without them Or part of it And something else I need to point out A lot of the planning goes on for the adults With disabilities And not a lot for the children with disabilities Is that relegated to education? Yes Just education But those children are going to grow up And they're going to have lives And we're talking about inclusion And we're talking about including the whole human being The whole child And beyond education And not being addressed How much just briefly Before we head over to Ms. Ernest How well is The articulation of the rights Of The blind and visually impaired conveyed To they themselves I don't think We're doing a very good job of that I don't think we're doing A very good job of that So these are things that we need to think of And We need to work on There are going to be gaps We've done a lot of good work We've done a lot of hard work SNVW has done a lot of hard work Even the training of teachers And ensuring that there are persons to drive The education of persons Who are blind and visually impaired But of course there are going to be some slots That we need to fill in And there are going to be some places That we need to pull up And yes Now we heard the need For improved attitudes Towards the blind and visually impaired Not only in school But in workplace Et cetera Speak to us on how the drafting The considerations in that regard For the disability Policy I cannot speak Specifically to the disability Which is currently being drafted I have been included in a lot of the preliminary Consultations But in terms of changing attitudes And the mindsets I think from a policy perspective That's where I'm coming from I think what is necessary is that Government Has to articulate A rights based Approach to development And Without a If we as a solution We are part and parcel of the United Nations Is a rights based approach And if we We need to internalize this As governments and policy makers And then it can actually Guide everything else That we do Because when we talk about persons with disabilities Persons who are blind persons Who have a physical disability But we feel to realize That if we have a rights based approach To governance It covers every single Marginalized group Because inclusivity would mean The participation of persons from All demographics All ages, races, sexual orientation Rural, urban location This is what inclusive means That we all have access We all are participating In life in general And I think In order to change attitudes Is Able-bodied world We live in a masculine Able-bodied world Most of our laws Were drafted by men And the only way In which we got rights In terms of the whole idea Of rights is through Persons who are not Able-bodied or excluded Had to come in Whether it be women In terms of disability Had women played a major role again That's another conversation But in order for us to change attitudes Of philosophy Of rights based philosophy And governance needs to be articulated First and foremost by a government And this can then seep down Into the society As Miss Felicia indicated They're always an afterthought Because no one able-bodied People do not think In terms of disabilities So My first thing is Governance, it starts on the top If it isn't from the top and it's not articulated From the top, it's very difficult For it to seep into the various sections Of society, even within the ministries And government policy makers Most persons within government Do not think of a right to be supported Development and training Training is essential The only way I am here right now Speaking as a human rights policy person Is because I was exposed to it I was exposed to training in human rights And I have exposed myself To persons who are not like myself And we need to be outside of our comfort zones I think In order for us to say, ah And retrain our thinking There's a lot of retraining I am constantly doing I remember you spoke about meetings And before Being with Human rights policy In the T4 meeting we have a meeting And everyone is included, you're invited Then my colleague At the UN office Why are we upstairs? What are we doing upstairs here? We can't have a meeting upstairs And it's already booked Whenever I book meetings My meetings can never be booked upstairs In a facility My meetings have to be on ground level So that it's accessible to everyone So this is what I think Now in terms of Change in policy And the disability policy Which is currently underway And I do commend Ms. Marakavich For actually including And she has brought in the necessary persons So when you bring in the people Who are to be affected Then I believe attitudes of able-bodied persons Like ourselves Can actually Make the changes that need to be changed And everyone else is included in the society Hopefully I didn't mess her name I hope not We have completely run out of time I think this needs to be a Part 1, Part 2 session But Mr. Averil, I leave Last words to you Yes, we have run out of time Indeed, but Because I really wanted her to address The Treaty of Marrakesh Which she had, she really Woked in We want to see it Fully implemented It's been ratified They For example As you For years and decades We have been driving this thing I would Admit to the fact that We probably spent A lot of time trying to educate The masses But perhaps not enough time Dealing with the Upper Ashland of the society Okay Because Several of the panelists made Reference to the fact that Government need to articulate For example, a rights-based approach Now It's coming from international But there has to be Something cultural about it as well Okay And for me I see a rights-based Side by side Responsibly, so I would say Right and responsibility-based Approach, looking at St. Lucia's culture Going back to some of the Comment made by Ms. Felicia For example This is Blind Welfare's business Or this is This, this agency or that agency For people to understand We have to get into a culture Of doing it for ourselves Where that is concerned There is commonality Between those Who are blind and those Who are sighted because they come From the same tree This inclusion society We sit back and someone do it for us Whether you are from Government, you are from Blind Welfare or wherever I have a need, you have to address it Not realizing the first line Responsibility starts with me You know Now sometimes I get myself in trouble When I say things like that Because this kind of truth Hits people hard in the face It cannot be all about Guvedma, Guvedma Neither can it be all about This agency or that agency It has to be about us And we have to take responsibility So that is why Binta, I am suggesting For us here, let it be A right and Responsibility Approach Approach Wonderful, it's all the time we have For now, I'd like to thank all of the Panelists, Mr. Averill Ms. Jacoby, Ms. Makarovic Ms. Ernest Ms. Felicia, thank you so very much For your time, hopefully we can meet once again To further this discussion This has been a panel discussion On exploring St. Lucia's readiness For a more inclusive society For blind VI persons This program has been part of activities To observe Blindness Awareness Month Under the theme I am more Than what you see And it's being spearheaded by the St. Lucia Blind Welfare Association My name is Jesse Leance It's been a pleasure presenting This discussion to you Happy Blindness Awareness Month Stay tuned for more programming Goodbye