 All right, we're gonna go ahead and get started. Thanks everyone. Sorry for starting a little bit late. I'm actually really impressed with the technical staff here though. I don't know if, for those of you who've been sitting here for a little while, they swapped out one TV. They like changed the audio twice. They're like all over the place. Like I've spoken in many different situations where if you were, yeah, in a bad situation, you were just in a bad situation. So pretty impressive. So we're here today to talk about web user experience in 2021. And if this wakes up in time. Sorry. This. As you can see, my name's Drew Gordon. I've done a bunch of things in the Drupal space. I started off as a developer once a long time ago and then eventually grew a team of other people who were all really talented, which meant that I could do something other than develop even though I thought it was okay, but I found better people. So then I became a CEO and then somewhere along the way we invented a product and that thing was called Node Squirrel. It was bought by Pantheon and then I went to Pantheon and now do agency and community outreach there. So I've got a bunch of different perspectives and that's my contact info. And frankly, that's enough about me. I'm presenting a bunch of stuff today. Very little of it is originally mine. And so I've tried to give good sources where I've seen them. And this slide deck will be available on SlideShare as we finish sometime this evening. So let's get started. So the three minute version, in case you wanna catch one of the other sessions that are going on right now. The world is getting more web-ish. The web is getting less web-ish. There's a lot of change coming. The connected world has won though and we understand that world, which means there are a lot of opportunities for all of us here in this room. So what we're covering. So I'm gonna talk through some of the forces that are changing our medium, starting way down in the hardware level. And then talk about interfaces and software and some of these trends in the open web and big data. And hopefully it helps all of us just have some more awareness around these different things. Some possible outcomes. And I'm gonna make some guesses as to where that future means and what we can do with that today. So I'm not covering anything about even though we've got user experience in the title. We're not talking about anything with UI design techniques or process and user experience, sort of disciplines and such. And if you were expecting that, I will not be offended at all if you go find something that'd be higher value for you. So it's okay. Come on down, plenty of room. We've got a bunch of chairs on all the sides. Be friendly for the people coming in. So with each of those forces, hardware, software, interfaces, et cetera, I'm gonna talk a little bit about what's happening. Give an analogy in our example, some implications and or predictions about what I think that means and ways to start preparing now. So before we get too far in though, I just wanna talk about the very idea of predicting the future. Can be tricksy. So we're gonna look at a couple of examples just to sort of like level set ourselves here. Starting back with Thomas Edison 120-ish years ago, Thomas Edison, known to be quite intelligent and he got a number of things right. One of the things he thought was going to happen was that alternate current, AC, the thing that we use every day was never ever going to take off. He was convinced it was a terrible waste of time. No one was ever going to use it. This gentleman ran a, yes, exactly. He ran a vacuum cleaner company and he was pretty sure in 1955 that in 1965 we would definitely have the vacuum cleaners powered by nuclear power. Kind of off, right? Getting closer and closer to our era, 1977, the chairman of the Digital Equipment Corporation, DEC, was, he knew that there was never gonna be any need or purpose or reason for any of us to have a personal computer. And this is somebody, you know, again, presumably out to be well informed and aware of things happening in the space. And this gentleman actually is co-founder or co-inventor of Ethernet. In 1995, he knew that the whole internet thing was gonna be done in 1996. We're not, you know, founded 3Com again. And then we, you know, are getting even closer. Some of us might remember this moment. Steve Ballmer declaring iPhone as silly, never going to get anywhere. Similarly, I think there is a reasonable chance that I will say something really dumb and hopefully it's only just one thing. So with that in mind, we'll go ahead and get, oh, actually, one other little sort of level set here. I'm occasionally using analogies to explain what I think will be happening and this is what Freud thought of analogies. Useless, but maybe they make you feel better. So with all of that said, we'll jump into it. So if we look ahead in the future to hardware, one of the things that has been present in all of our sort of digital lives, and I'm starting at a very low level here, but I think it trickles up. We've all lived with Moore's Law, quote unquote. And it's been called a law, even though it should probably have been called a rule of thumb or handy guideline. By 2021, Moore's Law is broken. Moore's Law is the concept that every two years, processor speed can pretty reliably double. And that has a lot of impact in the planning of all kinds of things, like planning for device obsolescence, planning for new versions of software and higher performance needs, et cetera. And I think there's two reasons that Moore's Law will be broken by 2021. The first is kind of easy. It's kind of a gimme. It's physics. Right now, we are at the either 10 or 20, oops. No, I think we're like bridging the gap. We're headed towards 10 nanometers for the size for a circuit on a chip, which is really, really small. Like 10 nanometers, that's like, I don't know what's relationship to a human hair, but it's tiny. At five nanometers, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle takes over. And that means you don't know where the thing is. And that's bad when you're dealing with a binary, supposedly binary system. If you can't tell where the thing is, it's an issue. But I think one of the other reasons that we'll see hardware slowing is we're rapidly arriving at the point of good enough. And for that, I want to just take an analogy from airplanes. And this comes by way of this person who's actually, somebody here might know how to pronounce. Is anybody here? How do you? Machy Zygwofsky. Machy Zygwofsky. Yeah. Wow, thank you. I've used this a couple of times. I've never known. I've never dared it. Machy Zygwofsky. Zygwofsky. Thank you, sir. He gave us a talk at WebStock in 2014 about airplanes. And he makes the comparison to the fact that in the 1930s, we had, I forget which one, but like 1930s, 1940s, 1950s is like the Stratocruiser and the DC-3 and the 707. This sort of ever-changing, speeding up, doubling capacity, doubling in distance, all these things with airlines. By the point in the 1950s, where this had gone on for, say, about 30 years, it was very obvious that the next great leap was going to be to the moon. And so Pan Am, amongst other companies, started selling tickets to the moon. You could give you the early ticket. Here we are. Etta B. Richards signed up to be on one of those early moon flights. And they took these certificates and you would get them. And all of the major engineers at all of the aerospace companies were working on supersonic and beyond flights. And as those projects went longer and scope creep and slower and delays and delays, I don't know if that sounds familiar to anybody, but they realized they were not going to get there quick enough. The aircraft that they built, instead, they put basically the bad news bears team of engineers, the people who weren't really good, just kind of good, they took all those people off and said, build the stop gap. And they came up with the 737, which is basically the same airplane we still fly 40 years later, because it's good enough. It works pretty well. I came from Minnesota for this. It took me like 10 hours or something like that. That's a third of the way across the globe. It's pretty good. So similarly, for a lot of what we're doing on a regular basis, we have an amazing amount of computing power in these little devices. And a huge amount of what we do on this is not really very processor intensive. It's like looking at cat pictures on the internet. And it's good enough for that. So clicking. So in 2021, the doubling of speed, I mean this is I think a very known thing actually, it's not controversial at all. The doubling of speed is no longer the focus. You start having a lot more focused chipsets. This is already happening. CPUs have given way to GPUs for very specialized things. And that trend will continue. The next problems are gonna be about different things. It's efficiency, it's battery life, it's connectivity in a world where all these devices are speaking to each other. It's efficiently connecting to other things. And increasingly, we are going to see a world with many specialized chipsets and chips for solving specialized problems, leading to more specialized devices. And this isn't to say that there won't be still advances in speed and things like that. But a huge amount of, we've built this massive infrastructure to produce very fast chips. And they're going to be good enough. And then we're gonna tweak them and make them again very specialized and very focused. And that's gonna accelerate the trend of the internet of things. So, what does that mean? This is probably the most abstract one for all of us here that do the web. I mean the hardware's a long ways away. But the point I wanna make here is that as we all have more and more devices, and I'm actually curious, actually stepping back, how many people here have one device on them, with them right now, connected to the internet? And raising, okay, so one. So, yeah, the excellent point, Kathy, I like where you're going with that. That for the record, for the internet audience, that was every hand, I think, pretty much the room. How many people have two internet devices? Just two, just two. Wow, that's like, there, the 30%. I'll go with three or more internet devices. We've got 50, yeah, right here, right, we'll go 50. How many brought to Dublin, for those of you who are not local, four or more internet connecting things? It's tricky, because I brought a Kindle, right, exactly. I thought I was disqualified here, yeah, whoops. That's actually kind of crazy. If you go back like 10 years and think that you would bring more than one device that connects to the internet, that's just weird. Like, it's not that long ago that we didn't have the iPhone, that's 2007, 2006. And now, here we are, and we just sort of forget that you have another device that connects to either the internet or something else. And as this goes, not everything is going to connect to the internet, some things are going to connect locally. So, anybody running FitBeds or fitness kinds of things, super common, we're going to see that happening more and more. There's already sort of early prototypes where your shoes are going to have a chip in them to tell you that it's time to replace them or you've walked so many steps or other things like that. But this connected world, I think, offers a lot of opportunity for us. If we can think beyond our traditional interfaces of screens and such, we understand how this world works. The world gets more web-ish, and our web-ish skills are strong. So, what we'll talk about, I think, maybe has, sometimes change can be scary, but I think we should, I think, fundamentally feel optimistic about our abilities and understandings for this world. So, with the proliferation of devices, we get many, many, many, many more interfaces. And so, beyond screens, interfaces multiply. So, we will see, obviously, we're already used to the idea that we've got different form factors of mobile devices, things with screens, but moving away from screens, we are increasingly going to see other things as well. So, audible interfaces are augmented reality that are visual overlays on the world. Many of the interfaces that will be there will be not to human beings. They'll be talking to other devices, so APIs and such. And as an example, I want to talk about one of those. And the world will be seamless, too, because when you click here, it will definitely always move that. Oh, except for, make sure I'm like, thing is open. All right, I'll go back to clicking. So, all right, so augmented reality. How many have heard of this concept like augmented reality? Does anybody recognize what this is? All right, so if you see me, all right, so I play Pokemon Go. I started, because two reasons, one, I have children that got me into it. But then also, I think it's a really interesting example. So this is an example of walking down a sidewalk, and then there's this digital overlay on the world. And in this case, Pokemon is purely entertainment, right? There's no greater purpose here other than amusement, maybe a little bit of exercise. But what happens with this is that you're walking around, you see a thing, you catch it, whatever, trivial. But I think it's really interesting, because it's one of the, I think augmented reality's gonna sneak up on us faster than we expect. These, you know, using devices that are location and context-aware, and task-oriented, again, the task here is entertainment. We're gonna increasingly work in a world where the digital world is not really separate from the real world. Like, digital stuff is real. It is, I mean, it's electrons, it's like fundamental level, it is real. And I think that distinction over time will mean less and less, perhaps. So augmented reality, you know, and Google Glass was an example of this, there was a backlash against it, that's not going to be the last time that experiment happens, and it will eventually take off. Another interface I wanna talk about is audible. And what we're gonna see here is actually something that Dries showed in the keynote and the Dries note in New Orleans. But I think it's a really interesting example, especially for those of us who design websites. So what we're gonna see is the example of using a website by voice. So let's take a look. Alexa, as for my markets, what fruits are on sale today? We have hundreds of stores. What's your zip code so I can locate the nearest one? 19042. So you're on the floor too. Here's the fruit that's on sale at Gourmet Market on 77 in Broadway. Apples are currently 50 cents a pound. Bananas are on sale for 20 cents each. Anything else I can help with? It is a awesome sauce on sale. So you ask a question, we're gonna see the computers talking. We'll call to some code. Drupal choose on that, says, okay, interesting request. Sends it back. Awesome, sauce isn't on sale right now, but I'll notify you when it is. What is your phone number? 978-595-4242. It's not as actual phone number. I'll let you know when awesome sauce is on sale. Marking the product on sale and make a purchase. That, and we can have the lights back up, thank you. That was a website. That's a little weird, and that's a little bit crazy perhaps. Like how many of us have ever designed a website that you speak at, that you don't click on? This is kind of crazy, right? I mean this is, I think potentially something that could be a bit jarring, like wait. But I think coming ahead to some of the things I'll be talking about, like if you think of yourself as a web designer that deals with screens, futures like, ooh, jarring. If you think of yourself as an interface designer who solves problems for users, it's the same old thing. So one of the things that we know will happen, and I'll talk about this in a couple situations, but is something, so here's another analogy here. And this comes via a, I won't read the URL, but it's a website that has sort of whoops moments in mobile web. And we've all seen this, and the point I wanna make with this is that in a world where we have a proliferation of devices and proliferation of experiences, it makes having a central place to access and store the logic and the content of those things even more important. And in this page, you see here we're looking at something that is view the mobile site, and you get to the help page and says, whoops, we didn't translate this stuff over. You have to go back to the other site in order to get this content. And we've all, I'm sure, seen this experience, and we know it sucks, and it's terrible for everybody. It's bad for the users, it's bad for the people administering it, and that won't be the future. We won't have 38 different, if we have 38 devices, we won't have 38 different things that are the sources. And so, Central Content Hub becomes even more important in this world. And I think in the future, what I'm calling multi-channel delivery is even more important. So, web, apps, overlays, audible, et cetera. And that's normal. So, this is a little bit closer to us. What can we do now? This stuff is actually, we can start playing with this already. So, the concept of headless Drupal, using Drupal to display, to power a front-end, or some multiple numbers of front-ends with a single set of information. If you're not already doing integrations in APIs, increasingly sites will be about integrations in APIs, and so you should be doing that in every site build. Be thinking about web applications and getting your content elsewhere. And if you've started down this path, I would encourage you to double down. And if you haven't, it's time to get moving. It's time to start exploring these technologies and trying them out. Understanding these patterns and how they work in the ins and outs will serve you very, very well. And all of us very, very well in the future. And happily, again, Drupal has, we're in a good place for this. We've seen this world and we've tried to prepare for it as much as we can. At least on the technology layer. Now it's maybe time for us to be all thinking about this a little bit more. So software, as hardware slows, software grows, right? And the cloud will be the new normal. Software as a service will increase. And services will be increasingly commoditized. And as an example here, I wanted to highlight something. This is a search I did back in March of this year. In the United States, you might have heard we're having an election among some interesting people. At one point in time, I Googled the primary results and I saw a delegate count, right? Details don't really matter. The thing to note and notice and maybe sort of register is that this is being done within the Google interface. There are many sites that are reporting on this, doing their own graphs, everything else. This, however, is a great user experience. I went to one place, I typed something in and I got my instant results. I think it maybe even had a little bit of animation right here and that's a great user experience. However, for those of us who are in the process or in the business of building websites that might report these things, this is also perhaps a little bit jarring. What do we do if we're kind of cut out of this loop? Again, I think it's okay. I think there's hope here, but I want to look at another example as well. So if we look at this, this is me searching for a Thai curry house and if you ever happen to make it to Minneapolis, I highly recommend it, it's really good. This is what happens if you go to their website. This is what happens if you just have the Google page. So on the left hand side over here, I have a picture and such and not a lot of content. The phone number is a picture of the phone number so I can't even, if I want to call and make reservations, whereas over here, I have some pictures. I can see the map, that's great. One click interface, it's sort of a common format, tells me the address. I got the click for the phone number, even knows if it's open. This is really, really nice. That's a great user experience and it's fast. But that's also sort of scary. So I realize that the fonts are messy and actually someone warned me about this and I didn't solve it beforehand, oops. So some implications, predictions. I think I should probably reverse the order of these things. Shallow projects have less value. If you are in the business of building websites for restaurants or other highly commoditizable services, industries, et cetera, you're going to have a harder and harder time in this world. Commoditizable clients and markets will have custom, like there will be a common application if it doesn't already exist for these organizations to use that can produce a website quickly for restaurants. And there's nothing, interestingly enough, there's nothing that prevents Google, say, from opening up tomorrow, restaurants.google.com. And it's a Google form, they already invented that. And you fill in all of your basic information, upload some images, click publish and it produces that page, right? That page with results and you're done half an hour later. Google could do that very quickly and they have done that kind of thing. There are commoditizable clients and services that have kind of wiped out when they add interface improvements and communities. I think all of this, and this relates to actually my first example, will get us to a point, though, where search and social end up being regulated. So if you think back to the first example, politics and politicians in governments are occasionally slow moving. I don't know if anybody here has ever had the chance to work with government for a client sometimes or maybe works in government. I certainly have done a fair share of that and I have observed that they are occasionally slow moving. However, I think when under threat, they move quickly. And so knowing that Google, for example, could skew election results or Facebook could do the same. I think will lead to a world where algorithms and results are in some way audited and regulated. So what do we do about that? So I think to the extent that you're working with what I'm calling commoditizable clients, like restaurants, you need to get out or go deep. So shallow projects, no more. If you're just producing the website for the Thai Curry House in Minneapolis, it's not gonna be a great prospect going forward. However, in this interconnected world, there are gonna be more and more ways for us to go deep. And so to understand the problems that restaurants face, whether it's forecasting demand or ordering supplies or integrating with mobile devices so that someone walks by and they smell and they're like, hmm, that's really great. I wonder what that is. And, oh, it's open and it's on sale. Producing experiences like that, there'll be a huge amount of value in that. And so specializing and finding a vertical and understanding it deeply and serving it well, I think there are going to be lots and lots and lots and lots of opportunities. And someone's gonna do it, so why is it will be us? I vote us. Similarly, the concept of the open web is something that we've been talking about. And there's been a lot of posts on this recently, and I think it's important that we take the threat to the open web seriously because it's very real. And the open web is the idea that what's happened over time is that Facebook and Google and Apple and Amazon and others have kind of grown up and are eating more and more of the internet traffic, more and more time is being spent on these things. And they're being done as walled gardens, right? Where we used to have like just lots and lots of little websites that we would all kind of just bounce around, more and more time is being spent on these applications. And I think, however, I think the open web will pull out of this. We will still, like there is a space for us. And I think one of the reasons I think that is, I think back to our past, for those of us who've been around, we've seen something like this before in some ways. So back in 1998, we had the browser wars. Again, like there's this two big forces, Internet Explorer and Netscape. They were competing to own the web in a different kind of way. But it was frustrating and annoying and whatnot. At the point at which IE started pulling ahead, there's been a movement growing in the background, which was that of the Web Standards Project. We don't need two different ways to do everything. We don't need four different ways, one for Google, one for Facebook, one for everything. We just let us do it one way. That was called the Web Standards Project. And as soon as IE started pulling ahead, Netscape, which had been equally dismissive of the effort up until that point said, hey, wait, that's no good IE. You're not following standards, jumped on board. I think that same thing will happen with the open web. The losers, to the extent that there are losers in between Google and Amazon, all these other major forces, at some point they will feel threatened. They're gonna be judging themselves that they don't wanna fail. They're gonna support a common sort of the open web, basically, and so I think we do in fact have a future here. And I also think that means for us, all of us doing this, I think we don't need to worry too much about proprietary formats. So things like accelerated mobile pages, which is Google's format, or Facebook. Internet's, what is Facebook's one? Instant articles, thank you. I went with internet there and it threw me off. And there are others, others will emerge. I would advise us as individuals and as a community to not really sweat it too much. Now, I happen to know some of the people who worked on the Google AMP module. Has anyone used it, by the way? Has anyone tried creating accelerated mobile pages? I think it's actually a great, I mean, definitely experiment with it. And if you have clients that are looking to do it, go ahead and try it. But I don't think we need to get caught up too much in the particulars of a, you know, like a specific vendor, you know, Google's format for the future, Facebook's format for the future. Because I think ultimately those things aren't going to have huge lifespan. On the other hand, if you can get paid to produce the Google AMP module, like, you know, some wonderful people did, that's awesome. Good job. And I would encourage us all to be a little bit cautious of single vendor solutions. So in terms of, like, readiness and awareness, I think it's really just about awareness and educating ourselves to what the open web means and supporting it and realizing that's important to all of our futures and supporting it as it emerges. Closely related to the open web is that of, or the big data. So all of this activity is producing mountains of data. And, you know, open source has won. When I started in this business, open source was a passion and a philosophy that was challenged regularly. And you would occasionally have to say, no, this is a better way to do things. And now that's happened. I think as a community of open source people, one of the things that we maybe didn't appreciate that was going to happen was the rise in importance of data. So we have PHP. We have, you know, amazing tools like Git to produce code and collaborate. And we've thought maybe a little bit less about the highest scale side of things, right? All of this is producing mountains and mountains of data and it's getting stored away somewhere. And that's basically the problem with big data. All of this interaction is all producing digital trails of people. And I think, so in 2013, Edward Snowden came out and said, look, well, I didn't say, he released a lot of information demonstrating some pretty bad behavior on the part of the U.S. government. That was a lot of invasive information being collected. The U.S. government is not the only organization collecting a lot of data. And I think we will see more and more sort of releases like this. And I think, actually I'm going to switch my order for a second. I think whether or not it is done deliberately by Edward Snowden or it is by virtue of, you know, just bad security, things being leaked. This is actually from a website called Information Is Beautiful. It's the world's biggest data breaches. And it's a pretty amazing thing to look at. So, you know, the subtitle here is Selected Losses Greater Than 30,000 Records. MySpace, who knew this was still a thing? This is like 164 million records. 55 million records. Voted 191 million records. 80 million records. This is a lot of records being released on a regular basis. And it's like, you know, there's a couple different ways to sort this and everything. It's a really fascinating visualization to play with. But more and more of this will happen. And building up the pressure against that will be organizations like the European Union who say enough is enough. And this is actually something, so the GDPR, is anyone familiar or heard of this? I think, yeah, I mean, go EU. I happen to live in the United States. I really, so the European Union is ahead of us, I think in many ways in regards to data privacy. But this will increasingly be the way the world goes. Everyone has the right to protection of their personal data. Because that's the way it should be. And because I think as we increasingly see the implications of not this, we won't stand for it. So what does that mean for us? I mean, like, how many, most of us don't build websites, well, maybe some of us do, with 80 million records or 100 million records or things like that. It turns out that doesn't matter. Like, actually hackers, the forces of evil that are out there trying to get at websites are just as interested in your little Drupal site as a big one. And these attacks are increasingly automated and whatnot. And so educating yourself on data security and security in Drupal and specific and all things related to web security, internet security is just a powerful thing for your future and something that you should be paying attention to. Understand what personally identifiable information is and do your best to protect it and, you know, read along those lines. And support data privacy standards as they happen. You know, point, if you live in the EU and you can talk to your representatives about, you know, the GDPR is a good thing, do so. If you live in the US or elsewhere in the world and say, you know, this is the thing, this is the future, it is the way it should be. So what does this all mean for the web in 2021? Well, I think the web in 2021 is a lot less special. This is regular. It's like the, you know, so if you think of yourself as a web designer or a web developer or a web firm or web agency, anything like that, your future is, I think, narrow. But if you think about yourself as a designer or a problem solver or an agency that helps, you know, restaurants solve problems, your future is really, really quite bright. So, again, we know how to do this. We deeply understand an interconnected world model. It's what we've all been working on, both in terms of what we build and how we operate, too, as a community, as a group of people building a software together. We know how to assemble our own causes and we know how to push technology forward. So I would encourage all of us, as we sort of, like, look to the future and reflect on what's next and such, to think beyond screens, to think beyond what is narrowly called the web today with optimism, knowing that our web-ish skills are really strong. So, again, conclusion, back to that three minutes. The world is getting more web-ish. The web, less so. There's a lot of change coming, though. But we know how to deal with that. We know how to deal with this world, you, and we, I think, should fundamentally feel like we have a lot of opportunity in this coming world. And that's what I wanted to talk about today. So we do have, I think, plenty of time for questions, which is the way I like to do things, because I've talked enough. So if you have questions, please come up to the mic. And I'm just going to also mention, while people may be going to the mic, to please join us all for contribution sprints that are happening. There's a first-time sprint to workshop. That doesn't have the date. That's not helpful. It's all Friday. I clearly missed that on my copy-paste of the slides. Anyways, on Friday we have sprints. Other sessions will also have this information, but please join us. And the last thing I would like to say is both this session and every other session you attend, please evaluate it. It's helpful. We all get better when we get evaluated. But questions. Does anybody have questions? Oops. That one. And so please, yeah, please, if you have questions, please go to the mic so that the future world can know what the question was. Is this working? I think the web will spread into the automotive world. Of course. Because that's, everybody uses that as well. Because what? Because that's the stuff that everyone uses as well. Yeah, yeah, so I have strong opinions about car interfaces. Does anyone have a car with like a interface that's kind of mediocre? I do. It's astonishing. Like, car companies seem to get out of the business of building interfaces that are lousy. I think over the short term my security implications and all kinds of issues with car companies building lousy software that is connected to the internet and can turn off your car, for example. It's a bad idea. Probably what will happen over the medium term is that we'll see more and more android devices that are becoming replace the lousy experience. There will be some iOS as well. But I think this kind of comes back to the open web and the converging world. The difference between say a Drupal application and what an android experience you get today is is going to be shrinking. So Dries and the keynote showed the refresh list module, for example. Experimental module for Drupal. That gives you a little bit more of that fast user experience that you get in a native device app. And so I think you know, like could, so going out five years, who knows what that will be. But it will be some technology not like what it is right now because it's garbage. Yeah. So the question is, do you think web apps or native apps will win? See, these are hard questions. So anybody have easy ones like what's my favorite color? Yeah, so I'll repeat, I'll repeat. It's helpful for everyone else in the room, but I'll do my best to repeat. So five years ago the gentleman was saying he didn't think native apps were going to take off because we do web things, hopefully the web stuff takes off. Yet, obviously for those of us who, you know, use smart phones and smart devices, which is probably all of us, we have a regular experience of using apps. Hello! And which one is going to win? I hope web apps do or something that's between them. Because increasingly, so against the native apps there's some economics. So I think it's not ridiculous to think that web apps could win and will win. It's largely because has anyone here produced a native app, iOS, Android? Yeah, cool, good. It's good, definitely do some. It's very expensive to produce it in both, so there are tools like PhoneGap and other things like that will allow you to produce iOS and Android. But they're not quite as crisp. And so producing different apps for iOS and Android and other things, and the website which also has to do the things is, it looks a little to me like building the website for Netscape Optimized, Internet Explorer Optimized, except much worse. It's non-trivial costs to deliver a separate technology in each of these channels. And at the point where the web experience can match a native application, which can't quite, again, things like the refresh list model are really interesting. And that's sort of like, I think, headed towards our future. At the point in which we can legitimately produce an experience that doesn't require a whole separate build design process for Android, whole separate build design process for iOS, the web has the economic advantage there. We're going to make our thing universally accessible. And by the way, we are going to build it in such a way that audible interfaces work, and other things like that too. Do you see any change in the media competence of the people? Example given, Facebook just, I think, incorporated an algorithm for what's up, what's going on on Facebook. So throwing away all the human-edited contents. So my personal concern is people will not learn the difference between media. So youth will grow up with a smartphone, not really using a computer. And seeing something happening on their smartphone, thinking it is real. Where does it come from? From a publicly funded news site, from a Russian or American news site, and so on? So this is I think that scary scenario is very real and it will happen and that will again cause governments to move quickly to provide clarity. I do think that will be something that is fundamentally threatening to governments and politicians who go through elections and stability of economies and other things like that. As the world increasingly relies on digital mobile communications, something that is maliciously done or even slightly sort of tweaked all of a sudden, like again back to my initial example, in the United States for several years, there's just a few votes and if you are acting on behalf of one of those groups to push it one way or the other, for example, that's a huge amount of power. So I think we will have regulation, we will have some level of oversight into these algorithms because they're too important to trust to the Facebooks. And again I think we've already seen some early trends in this. The people who are responsible for those algorithms and decisions in companies like Facebook have been called to congressional hearings to answer for are you skewing things left and right? And I think so I do believe that we will have it's kind of like the next level of the GDPR. Not only do we have a right to our own information, these digital trails that we leave in the internet and our activities we have a right to understanding something like the open source of the algorithms that increasingly inform us. Anyone else? Where do you see Pantheon in 2021? Where do I see Pantheon in 2021? Disruptors because you have a lot of cloud disruptors that are coming very strong. Yeah, so there are definitely disruptors in the space. I'm actually optimistic for Pantheon. I mean, I suppose that should be self-evident. I think we have a pretty awesome set of technology, a really good group of people and the ability to iterate our technology forward. But this is one of the reasons actually I'm spending time thinking about this because I think we need to be prepared for a changing world. But I think we can be. But you know, time will tell. We'll find out. You know, Drupalcon 2021 we'll chat about it. Okay, and I got the time signal. So thank you all very much for coming. Really appreciate it.