 IMAGIN IMAGIN IMAGIN So we will find out who is Victor Abueyo before software development happened and digital marketing. Victor Abueyo is an introverted guy who likes technology and likes reading We are very passionate about tech and the evolving technology world and it has been so for the longest time ever. The longest time ever. We won't go to that. We won't get to that. What did you study in school? So I studied software engineering in school at the Multimedia University of Kenya and before that I was in Bali High School. Alright. For someone who is watching this of course we have already thrown in the world software development and digital marketing. What sort of educational background does one require to get into the world of software development and digital marketing which is I believe it's a sub kind of product from the company. So traditionally before tech took over and digital space became a thing traditional you have to go to school take a course in software development more or less computer science or software engineering then you graduate then take a subsequent course to actually make you certified but nowadays with the emergence of technology, social media, social tools right now you can be studying software development from the comfort of your home. With YouTube there are a lot of tutorials that are offering that time span of 3-4 months if you are consistent you can definitely become a software developer a digital marketer. Alright. Interesting. One thing that you will agree with me and also most of the viewers who are checking out this particular interview when it comes to software development coding as software development just go hand in hand. So what is coding and how is it related to software development? I think most people normally confuse that most people think coding is software development So software development is actually several processes and methodologies so normally when you are doing software development it starts from something like let's say you want a software let's say an instance you want a software you come to me you tell me I want an application the whole software development process starts from the time we meet I actually gather the requirements that you want the needs that you have and then I go ahead and translate them to let's say I draw them up and say this is what Michelle wants and then I share them with you into something like a statement of work then once you agree this is what you actually want now that's when the coding starts and even when the coding ends and then we give it to you you have then to review the application you've done you have to do some testing and then there is the post development services that are being offered like maintenance ensuring the application that you've done running all of that up to the point of where the application is launched that's the whole software development quite a process there it is quite a process can one learn how to code online just through online by themselves actually one can learn how to code online and funny thing is even for the people that I work with at Madafi a few of them have software development background but some of them land software development by themselves through YouTube and they are really really good at it really? they didn't go to school they went to school and said something completely different oh my goodness so it's something that can be self taught it's something that can be self taught as long as you have the passion for it speak about passion when did you discover that you are passionate about software development and you just got into it so it's a funny story and I'm sure my mum is watching in a test to it hi mum so the first time I was introduced to a computer was around 2004 in the 2000 hours I'd gone to visit an aunt and then I saw a computer and it was super super interesting especially with the computer games it was just intriguing how you can sit in front of a screen and then play games on it and interact with it normally at the end of the day there is no one behind it that's what I normally think that people in their computers and then my interest grew over time I was so much into computers worked in several places where computers are mostly involved I think most of the places I worked there was always a computer involved that always informed well going and then the first laptop I owned it was a Toshiba ya I still have it actually it was a Toshiba given to me by my dad and that's where I really really learnt the fundamentals of software actually started doing a bit of designing a bit of web design HTML experimenting and all things and that grew over time but the first project that I did I can say actually did work for someone it was around in second year a friend reached out he referred to me because he always used to see me we always were with him he used to say to him I'm always on my computer doing things like he said what are you doing what are you writing it used to tell him I'm actually designing a website or I'm actually designing a mobile application so after seeing all that at some point he got someone asked him do you know someone can do for us a website and immediately I came to mind I went ahead with my first website for paying client and the journey has been progressive since then I'm just going to be like Tom right now I'm going to ask what does the day look like for a software developer because we always see you guys at a corner somewhere in a hoody very busy staring on your laptop or even computers so how does the day look like so also something I have to add in software development there are also different types of software developers there are ones who just sit down and do the coding that most people are normally used to those are you will find someone like a developer and android developer back in developer back in developers one who actually does how the system will work and all that and mobile developers one android applications ios applications and then there is the software tester so in the day of a software developer normally if you are hired if you are a full time software developer normally in the morning you wake up let's say there is an ongoing work you gather requirements of what needs to be done and then draw a schema a schema is more or less like a structured diagram of how the software needs to work in a way that if I present the schema to you if you don't have a software development background you will be able to understand it and then this schema I'll now take it and then start writing code based on the requirements that we need to achieve or the needs that we need to achieve okay I think we we get it now so let's look at my Davi agency you've been operating for 3 years 3 years now I would like to find out who or what influenced you to start a company of your own we had that on when you gave your background story that your parent actually supported I would like to find out who or what influenced you to start this your own business so for me initially it was never a business it was just something I was passionate about people approaching me after my first client people approaching me I used to do websites for them give it to them they pay me and then at some point around now 2017 that's when I realized this is something that can actually be grown full scale something that can actually be pursued full time as opposed to just being a passion project aside the hassle when you discover that that was around 2017 2017 September so now I started pursuing it full time because before just doing it on the side on the weekends and all that but now I started doing it on the daily so I used to balance having meetings client meetings doing the work and actually with school work because remember I was still in school you were still in school inside the company so it used to be like that and then at some point I realized this is something that I can't do it alone so I approached my friends they became part of by then it was still called Aura Tech we rebranded recently it was still called Aura Tech they became part of the company and then now we started going ahead looking for clients and executing projects and I realized now that when if you are working with a team it becomes easier to go for those full bigger projects and then you can execute them on time and then the fact that you guys are in the room everyone has an idea that at the end of the day you realize actually my way my suggestion was wrong let's follow this or bring heads together you actually come up with a better more efficient product I speak about products and having a team I'm so sure there are other certain branches that the company when it comes to the co-model agency offers custom software development by we companies approaches we approach them we try to check how they are operating let's say companies have been business for a long time and they are still doing things manually so we try to get that process and then from that try to draw up to scheme up a software that can actually enable them to ease how they do their services or their processes and from accounting to HR and all that then we design a custom tailored product for them that's one of the services and then is web design we mostly we are really really passionate about design as a team and how design influences how people use applications and software product so we do web design also for web design as a service we also do mobile application development that's in the custom software development and then last not least we offer search engine optimization rather digital marketing whereby people come to us yes we've done the products it's live now what next how do you ensure people actually see this product and how do you ensure people actually come interact with this product and still go ahead continue interacting with it in the long term so the last service the digital marketing normally comes after all these other processes are done would you say the digital marketing parts came up to you guys discover we're doing such engine optimization so we can actually get into digital marketing yes so the digital marketing service came at a later date because realized yes we offer we tell people we do design centric software websites but after that if I give you an application that's really really web design it's looking really really good how do you ensure people actually go ahead and appreciate or use that product so now that's when you go optimize it on popular search engines like google you optimize it on the social media channels facebook instagram and the rest and after that still digital marketing once people go to it you can be able to analyze and see if people are coming which services are they interacting with which parts are they interacting with and how can we make that better so it still brings about the software development process being an ongoing process makes lots of sense absolutely it does okay on products have there been a situation whereby you you came up with a product and it got rejected or it got stuck and it never came to life that has happened a lot of times it's happened a lot of times normally find a client come to us comes to us they tell us we want this and this and this and we think or really try to think this is what they want but in real sense on something else and then you go ahead and design a product then once you present it to them even our website when you present it they are like no this is completely different from what I had in mind then you have to redo there are times we have redone a website like 4 times 4 times cause there was not that clear requirements but from that we learned so normally how we do it now is before we even start the coding part we try to have as many sessions with you as possible exactly just try to understand what it is you want we try to present it to you like from our understanding give you a document like this is what you said you want is it in line with what you want if there changes we make them so by the time we are starting this actual development process everything has been cleared everything is good to go cause it really software development process a complex process as it is so if you keep on redoing it at some point you just get tired requires lots of patience it requires lots of patience that's what most software developers work at night so there is a very big drive towards pushing the young people into setting up applications that can offer solution for the society where we as a country are we making substantial headway or not yes and no yes in the sense of there has been really unimpressed people have really impressed technology as it comes and this is from cutting across all age groups people nowadays have seen the need to use technology in their day to day lives and no because no that we have that a lot of people also think every problem we have as a country, as a society it can be solved by technology and doing the technology thinking about the software and the rest so you normally find nowadays in the market there has been a lot of applications put out there has been a lot of systems put out that are solving problems for lack of a better word that don't exist this is a problem then immediately I think I need to come up with an app for this but how we do as Madavi how Madavi plugs into that whenever we meet with someone who wants to come up with a solution we try to understand what they need and then we also advise advisory services is also one of the biggest things we do we also advise based on the problem that you have the solution that you need to provide this will not work for you based on 1,2,3 and this will not work for you we also give them the merits and the demerits so at the end of the day someone might come to us they want a mobile application for doing solving a certain problem but then we tell them the best solution for you is not a mobile application but rather something like USST and they outline why they need for that exactly I am almost sure that you will agree with me majority of international organization they seek to work with software developers in Kenya just to come up with a groundbreaking technology and do you feel like in our country this deficiency will come to promoting or just holding hand our software developers that is that has been the challenge for the longest time but I feel it has been slowly changing but now it is still fine yes it is very hard to get help it is sufficient to have something like our financial advisory kind of help from institutions select the government the conversation is still not yet there but the good thing is there have been other institutions that are coming in Kenya to actually help that process like for instance if I may give an example we recently got contacted by these are Poland agency from Poland it is a Polish agency it links software development companies from Kenya with software development companies in Poland because right now Poland is actually the best software development hub in the whole world there are products for all even this big tech company so you find something like that you find as Madavi if we get access to that it is easier because you are being introduced to world standards world practices how you need to develop software what guidelines do you need to follow which means at the end of the day you can come up with a better software that is just not for Kenyan people but for the global for the global world alright you run a company that you build from scratch looking back would you say that we have a good ecosystem that nurtures innovation yes we do and I know a lot of people disagree with me but yes we do for me we find that when I started out I thought it is something bad that I will do alone I realized having a team behind having a people that you work with people you can consult is actually one of the biggest achievements you can have not even clients if you have the best team working with you it means even getting certain jobs it becomes easier and then something we also realize when I told you like nowadays Kenyan companies have started embracing technology internal technology nowadays the kind of companies they get approach to for work for consultancy work for development work they mostly focus on the team so like who do you have on board how do you communicate do you have an enhanced relationship just after after work like how do you guys engage and all that so yes we have that ecosystem I can say that you just need to know where to look to look to where to focus on what has been the experience when it comes to offering solutions for the local market that is two things actually first of all it's pricing this most people individuals in the country blame it on them having yet understood for software projects or made for software in their operations to use the operations and the ones that do actually think because people just see developers as something you're doing as a passion project so they normally assume you can get paid peanuts for it right so you'll find someone you give them a quote and then their counter proposal is like a tenth of that quote you're like how do you even start this conversation exactly someone will actually tell me this was quite cheap I didn't know it was expensive which is the services I'll be offering it's just not software development or coding at the end of the day I'm offering you these other services because my biggest achievement is not getting paid by you but actually seeing I've done a product for you that actually helps and the rest of the people so pricing as it is it's still a big big challenge and the other thing I will say collaborations they still that in the view dualism especially even in software development if we are doing this you're another company it's very hard for us to collaborate with you and tell you these are the services we offer you can do this and this because people still think we will get your clients or something of this sort and speaking about pricing and all that I was reading a book it was a book so I saw a video somewhere it was a book and they were stating that they still in Kenya can say that there is no proper strategy when it comes to pricing for software developers and my question was what happens if I'm a software developer and I offer the same similar services that you would offer as a cheaper price so how do you guys curb that because now I'm offering the same products as a cheaper price and your client may decide otherwise I think that's also a challenge because at the end of the day if a client gets 5 proposals he needs to get done and 3 of those proposals charging is something like X amount of money and then 2 of them are charging 10X definitely he will feel for the 2 companies he's being overcharged but the real sense is that's actually the market price but you'll find for these other people because software development is so digital marketing is so easy to get into most people get into it but they don't take time to actually see how much do I need to charge and when I'm charging am I offering quality service so that's what you'll find for most companies even sometimes they get approached for people to redo their applications after they've gone live because the first person undercharge them and then did very bad work so they need to get it done again you'll find especially now in the market bad products done people don't follow those software development guidelines we don't follow those design guidelines on how we need to design a product just that you want an application I can do it for you for this amount of money pay me I deliver it to you so does that mean that we lack in the software industry does that mean that there's lack of IT policy that can provide a strategic direction when it comes to matters of IT yes at the moment there lacks that comprehensive framework that actually covers software development how it needs to be done, what's the pressing you need to get and all that and due to the different kind of work we do I've interacted with lawyers and I've also seen there's actually a framework that is imposed in place so like a lawyer will be told if you're doing company registration don't charge below this but in terms of software development there is no that there is nothing like that at all so I will charge you first of all if I'm a freelancer I will think okay how much is my rent how much is my food and then I do a total and then I charge you that amount because I'm thinking it's something that my turnaround time is quite quick okay we have multinationals and also Kenyan corporates who tend to buy software internationally and they shy away for just believing in Kenyan talents what has been your challenge in this particular situation by most of corporates in the country tend to seek help from international organization when comes to software development we've had a couple of this so this one time a client approached us he needed a software to automate his processes we gave him a quote and then he didn't actually on board because he told us first of all you're expensive and then I don't feel comfortable with your capabilities as a company because he looked at us Madavi Madavi team is quite young I think the average age is around 27 is quite young so he looked at us like I don't think you guys are capable of doing this mind you we've been doing it for quite a while and he went ahead and got the same software for 10 times surprise from he outsourced from India and later he started having challenges with the software some parts were not working and because the support was not as fast from the other end he came back to us like can I engage you on this and this so in totality most companies still haven't yet appreciated most companies still feel software outsourced goods are still of better quality and all that and not remembering probably those economies have been mature for longer than us but for us to get to that level there needs to be that support there needs to be that consistency there needs to be that local appreciation of local goods and it's so easy when you actually get to work with someone from home they get to understand your custom made custom made whatever you want for your product exactly for us you'll find Madavi in something that we really really pride in for the clients that you have for the people you've worked with our relationship goes beyond the work that you do we try to establish a cohesipulation because I know if you're a client it becomes easier engaging with you even when you want to add other features on the product that you have it becomes easier having with us a conversation because we've cultured that relationship so which is not offered by most external companies and we are not yet there let's look at companies achievements three years down the road Madavi agency actually just looks like yesterday so we've had challenges and achievements achievements we've did something really really good we've been referred a couple of times and we've worked on projects we've worked with companies that we never thought we would work with within the three years that we've been in business we've worked with some huge companies I won't say the names but we've worked with some big companies and also that exposed us to a different kind of environment to a different kind of interaction because these companies are used to working on a standard level so within our interaction you realize we need to change our processes we need to align this we need to become better at this it's been really really good multinationals and provided services for them and it's something we are hoping Madavi will be the epitome of that in the near future when it comes to digital marketing apart from the search engine operation what are the services on that landscape of digital marketing so we also do paid media by ads for you to actually improve your ranking we also do community management we are on top of your pages we do the posting we check on people who are interacting with their pages what queries are coming in how can we be able to engage them with that and just push out your services as a company get more people to know about you and streamline that engagement with your prospective clients on your socials in our timeframe what are a couple of the challenges that the company has gone through and how did you and how are you guys manoeuvring through the biggest challenge I would say sometimes it becomes really really hard to get projects done and it was a challenge you had initially because you are desperate for work you come to a result let me do it 50% halfway in before you make a deposit and as a business that really affects your cash flows because you realize that other things that business or company does aside from service delivery that needs to ensure it's running so once your cash flows are you delay your cash flows to move on these other things and then you can do a project halfway initially we didn't used to have contracts so you come to us you are hyped about the product that you want to do let's do it, start doing it halfway in you are like na I've changed my mind it's our loss because you don't have any legal agreement that governs the work you are doing the conversation just ends there so learning on the job that's something we've been doing and knowing how to align processes apart from the work that you're doing how to ensure this thing doesn't affect us if things go haywire another major challenge you've had although it was something initially but you managed to get over it the cohesiveness of the team they say the team is a very fundamental aspect to it the cohesiveness of the team the team we have we have night olds people who work at night we have people who work during the day so getting these two people together to work at the same time and still meet deadlines it was a huge huge challenge but it's something we got over it as time went by so far so good so what makes Madafi the partner of choice when it comes to offering software development solutions we are really really focused on giving you top niche services and more or less like we focus on as Michelle Michelle's company what is it that you really really need to get out yes you are approaching us on a development perspective you want us to do a product for you but we think long term we think if we do this product for Michelle and then you give it to her how will she push it out so we normally try to handle the process from the word go and ensure whatever we do for you just doesn't benefit us in terms of being compensated but it also benefits you in terms of how you use it in terms of how people engage with it and in terms of how it will be relevant in the next 2-3 years down the line so our customer engagement our customer service that we really really try to focus on so your niche is on the service position exactly what does the future of Madavi agency look like in a long time in a long time space our vision is in the next few years to have done to have streamlined the software space in the Kenyan market in the NSS streamline the software space in the Kenyan market a lot of companies in Kenya are still using outsourced and most of them are still having challenges because you normally find you bring in a system from India from the US and then you have to take like 3 months just to take your stuff through it to get them to on board and learn and for them to actually use the system it's so much work so with Madavi what you're planning what we've been doing and based on how we deliver our services is streamline the software space in the terms of whatever software systems that people use to automate the business processes align with their company culture when I say that I mean we come in we look at how your stuff works how your people work and then try to make a system that fits into their daily routine without changing anything about them and sure as their performance their work processes are being more efficient and done faster and the plan is within 5 years to have gotten like a 70% market share Great I would like to find out as a founder and you being a leader and just having people who you get to work with and I'm so sure you didn't have a clear roadmap when starting No one has What are a couple of lessons that you have learned along the way while starting this particular business that is for I have actually have 3 So the first 3 is be good at what you do when you say be good at what you do you don't mean the type of service you deliver just be good at what you do in terms of communication how do you communicate to the people that you provide the service to how do you ensure whatever needs to be done is done on time how do you ensure you give feedback on time how do you ensure you enhance that relationship between the people that you are working with between you and your clients between you and your partners just be good at what you do and understand people you actually can be able to rely on because we find at times I'm not in the office and there needs to be work to be executed but I know if I call someone he's reliable at least he'll be able to get it out of the way without me delaying the time that needs to be delivered and the last thing is have mentors people who can guide you tell you this is the right direction to take this is the wrong direction to take how people you look up to how people you normally consult with on a regular basis and people who have been there before you because it makes the journey so easy it makes you avoid some loop holes that you have gotten into but you don't because you learn from other people's mistakes looking back 3 years now do you regret it not a single day have you been have you been hit by the COVID-19 it has hit all industries definitely but how has COVID-19 affected this problem? so with Madaivi initially when COVID-19 came I think everyone freeze the assets everyone put everything on stand still so we also got affected by a huge impact on us we realized some clients offer them services on a regular intervals month to month basis some of them do consultancy services to them but because their businesses were affected it meant also businesses had to be affected in one or another because some discontinued services and all that but 3-4 months down the line people realized they need to go online they need to be digital especially for businesses that are fully operational away from the digital space so people realized the need for that and we started having a lot of queries coming in people interested in how as a company how to ensure I still offer my products and services in the digital space so it picked up progressively and so far so good so in every chaos there is an opportunity what's the future of software development in the Kenyan market it's going to be revolutionary going to be revolutionary as I look right now each and every other day people realize businesses have been operational for the last 34 years realize whatever we've been doing it's so time consuming so it takes a lot of time takes a lot of resources and there is need to be automated so within the next 23 years everything we do will be automated everything will be automated and that for the software development it means there is opportunity to tap into and also there is need to learn because one thing I did notice software development is a very proactive and dynamic field so whatever works today in the next 2 years will be outdated so you need to be always on the forefront getting to know what's new and whatever is new will it work for us or do you just need to disband it away so it's quite dynamic so as a software development company you find your challenges are not just acquiring clients but also remaining on the forefront of using the latest tools and technologies to ensure your service delivery is the best among your competitors or you'll be outdated what would be your advice for someone who is watching this could be a young person who wants to get into business or a young person who lost their job or they are just out of school and they are looking for to just start their business what would be your advice it doesn't have to be in the software industry it could be in any other industry what would be your advice to that person so for me and I notice especially even my parents for me I would advise if you are passionate about something try it out go for it try it out see how far it goes if it culminates into something big full time well and good if it doesn't at least you took the time to do it and learn and not have regrets as you normally find a lot of people if it could go back in time I'll say this is something different but they can't do that so as a young person especially in your early twenties in your teens if there's something you're passionate about this is the time you have you can be able to make mistakes don't shy away from making mistakes this is the time go for what you want if it works out well and good if it doesn't at least you try and share it thank you very much Victor I look forward to share your social media handles for the company and also the website on how people can reach out to you so for us you can reach us at Madavi our social media handle rather across all the channels Instagram Twitter Facebook is Madavi agency our website have two websites either get us via Madavi.co and also via Madavi.co.ke I would really suggest to check out our website because we normally provide a lot of insights on our blog we normally just give insight from our team on how you can use design to enable you to have better mobile applications how you can make your business business processes easier so check it out even if you want to buy it right now it will really really help you