 I will be talking about folk healing in India and I will be primarily talking about what folk healing is, its relevance and its efficacy in dealing with a wide range of health and other psychosocial problems. India has a long history, a very rich history of developing a wide variety of healing practices, theories for dealing with both mental and physical health problems. In fact, if you look at the country, you know each in different parts of the country, each nook and corner of the country, you can find these healing centers and these healers who are trying to providing all kind of health services and other kind of dealing with other kind of problems. Keeping that in mind, Shurik Akkar in 1982 in his very famous book, Shaman's Mystics and Doctors, he has commented that the diversity of these traditions in India and the astonishing variety and number of practitioners can make a stranger to this country, feel that healing in his manifold aspects is the central individual and cultural concern and preoccupation and impression which is not far off from the mark. That is what he wrote in 1982 that India is in that sense that if you look in terms of the temples, the mosque, the other kind of healing centers and you look in terms of the healers, the shamans, the mystics, even the fortune tellers, the gurus and other kind of people who are providing these kinds of services, these whole range of services and wide range of services which we can see being practiced in different parts of the country. If you look at the fifth five-way plan of 1992, which clearly states that India has around half million healers in the country and by these healers, the planning commission document means those who are practicing Arjubait, Homiapathy and other alternative systems of medicine and if we add to this list, those who are practicing other kind of faith healers, fortune tellers, the gurus and all these different kind of varieties of healers, then the whole number may go even beyond the one million mark and keeping in mind that a kind of surveys which are conducted in this country and these surveys clearly show that more than 90, 95 percent of the population believes in the efficacy of these healing practices. In fact, in 1990, in 2000, Nanda wrote a book and he mentioned that they are around 2.5 lakhs of religious and other centers in this country and large number of these develop as healing centers and even though this magnitude and this massive system which is available in this country for years and for centuries, we can say that this particular system has been ignored by the scientist, by psychologist, by health practitioners and I think this is the time for us to understand and this implication is a use as relevance for dealing with the health problems in this country. Before I proceed further, let me tell that there are two types of traditions we can talk about and these two type of traditions, what Marriott calls as the little and the great tradition and by great tradition, what we terms of the healing we can mean those practices which are like are you with homeopathy, other kind of practices which has a formal system of practicing where they are text and books available which are being used and used for the purpose of understanding and the learning about these and their institutions training institutions for these different kind of practices. But if you are there, other condition which we call is what he calls as a little tradition and what I mean by that is the folk tradition. Folk tradition is that tradition in which we deal with the common man, people in the street, people in the villages, people in different walks of life where we which these are the practices where with developed view from the local conditions, from the local environment, local experiences and which had a developmental or we will say developmental growth in the sense that these were modified, when some kind of changes and looking at the long history of India, these traditions have survived over the centuries and they not only survived, but these are still as popular as they are getting or even they are gaining in popularity in all different part of countries. Last year I went to a healing center which is in Rajasthan near Chittor and when I visited it last time almost 20 years back, it was a small temple and what I found in 20 years time that around that particular temple, a whole township has developed and the more people who are visiting these places is the increase to a great extent. So, in spite of all the progress which medical science has made, in fact all the discoveries about the medicine, about the pharmaceutical companies and other medical development, the popularity of these centers have not gone down. If you look from that point of view, then I think is important that the kind of services they are providing, there is something which people are approaching, people are contacting and they are close to the culture and the belief system which people have. Looking from that point of view, I would like to make a point that medical science particularly the modern medicine has not accepted these practices or they have not recognized or attribute these practices in the sense that these practices are considered to be scientific, they are considered to be primitive and these practices have been considered that those people are uneducated, ignorant, tribal and these people are using these kind of practices. But the data shows as many other surveys show that these centers, these healing centers, no matter where they are and they are in the last number in all cities and villages and places have been frequented by people from all different class sections of the society, whether they are rich or poor, whether they are educated or not educated, whether they are experts or not experts, even these have been found in these surveys, even the medical doctors, even the families of these doctors, even if they may be visiting at different times of these different centers. So, these places if I look at these the practices have been utilized and have been subscribed by the large population of the country. Now, if you look at from that point of view, in spite of their popularity and wider practices, the larger scientific community and modern medicine has not decognized or remain critical even of these different practices and these are traditional practices and it has been alleged and it has been believed that only those who are uneducated, ignorant or tribal or have no access to medical practices, these are the people who subscribe to this kind of healing practices, this kind of traditional practices. They are pre-scientific, they are part of the superstition which people have and unless the education will bring them out of that kind of belief system which gives them to. But, you look at the kakkar and the work which very important work which has done by kakkar and Klineman, actually kakkar and Arthur Klineman who have done the work, Arthur Klineman has worked in the Asian region and there in the region he has been also was looking at these traditions and he says these practices are deep-reed, not only in the convention, one thing one thing in the conventional wisdom, these practices are not unscientific in the sense that we understand it because what we have failed to understand is the scientific import of these different kind of healing practices. I think what we need to do as a scientist is to decipher what kind of theories about human mind, theories about the human nature and the theories about the human behavior and social practices are in change in this part of and these healing practices are based on these kind of systems and I think that needs a kind of a change in our methodology because we do not have right now the methodology and the mindset to understand this rich heritage. Before I proceed further, I would like to make three points in this case and that and then before I talk about the how these healing centers are distinguished from the other kind of services, I would like to make three points and the first point is that WHO made a very significant point in their annual report in the 1998 report that 80 percent of the diseases we suffer from, the physical diseases we suffer from either have a psychogenic or a self-limiting nature. By saying psychogenic or self-limiting nature, what WHO report says that in the case of 80 percent of diseases we suffer from does not need any kind of medical treatment. Whether we make go for any treatment or not, these diseases will be going away in the after particular period of time. So, the question is that in 80 percent of cases we go to rush to the doctor and get the medicine is actually not required. Any person is a simple assurance and saying that everything will be all right may be enough for the patient to recover from that kind of problem. Another point I want to make in this context is that those people who visit the traditional healers, they are not the people who visit, they understand that what healer can do and what a doctor can do. They understand their different rules and they understand their different rules in the sense that when they go to a medical doctor, they only talk in terms of the physical symptoms of the problem. But when they go to a healer, they talk about all their personal concerns and issues and problems and what they are suffering from because human suffering is not only contingent on the physical condition but also kind of way they construed their problem. They understand their personal and mental and social problems and so the role which a healer is playing is more of a counsellor than of a person who is treating their physical disease. The third point I want to make in this context is that when we are looking at these healing traditions in the present context, we should know that there is a lot of discontentment at present in the west also about the medical health practices because there was a lot of hope in the beginning of the last century that medical science will progress to the extent when there will be a pill for every illness, every disease will be taken care of whether it is a fomendial disease or physical disease and we have come to know in 100 years of medical science progress that medical science has not been able to address most of the human physical and mental health problems. Looking at the way medical health problems are increasing the societies whether this is in the Indian society or the western society, the problem is on rise. Look at different kind of indices which are coming out in terms of suicide, in terms of depression, in terms of other kind of anger and other kind of mental health problems. These problems are on rise according to all different statistics which are coming up. So, medical science has not been able to address very effectively to this kind of physical and mental health problems of the people and keeping that in mind that this is the kind of scenario we are living today. I think it becomes more pertinent for us to understand that how these different healing centers and these healers work, what they do and what they do and how that helps the person to recover from the kind of problem they are suffering from. So, what I am going to talk now is about the distinguishing features of these faith healing, these kind of traditional healing or I would say call it whether you call it faith healing or folk healing or traditional healing, I would be combining these different aspects. One aspect is that these healing, folk healing is holistic in nature. It is much more than the recovery of the person from illness or from physical or mental health problems, but it is dealing with the anxieties, worries, fears, guilt, loneliness, all these are kind of problems which are accompanying with this kind of other kind of health problems or personal or social problems. This holistic view means that the overall purpose of this kind of folk healing is the social and psychological and physical well-being of the person that is the primary concern and looking at from that point of view, holistic healing is considered to be dealing with the human relations, dealing with the belief system, dealing with the patients and their spiritual orientation. All these things are combined in the treatment process or in the healing process in these traditional practices. Now, these practices, healers know one thing intuitively, maybe not because of their learning or education that these are close symbiotic relationship between mind and body. If the mind is sick, the person falls sick mentally as well in the due course of time, he is mentally also sick and in any mental illness, anxiety or depression or other kind of will lead to some kind of, may lead to some kind of physical symptoms at some other stage. So, this kind of close relationship between mind and body, healers understand what they are doing and the treatment which they are doing is primarily in one way is of a psychological nature that if the mind is treated, mind is healed, then the mind will heal as a, mind will take care of the body, the physical illness as well. So, this kind of assurance, this kind of faith, this kind of belief which is invoked in these kind of healing practices that becomes important for understanding that these are the psychological conditions, the state of mind of the person is important for the purpose of healing and treatment of the person. Another thing which I want to say about this is holistic. The traditional healing is not treating the person as a patient, it is not looking at the illness or the problem with the person as the treatment which they have or the healing which takes place is of the person. So, what they are healing is a person, not like in medical science where the focus is on the illness and the symptoms and the removal. Another thing which I want to say in this context that though some healers, in particular aspects of, in particular diseases or particular kind of problems, but the kind of treatment which they generally what they do is combining the medicine, herbal, faith, belief, spirituality, all these are combined together when they are dealing with the people who are suffering from some other kind of problems. And the sometimes that, so this is one of the aspect that these processes or these healings are healing holistic. Another is that these therapies are mostly healing, traditional healing therapies are mostly sacred therapies. What I mean by sacred therapies, I am making a distinction between the sacred and the religious. Religious is a connotation which is bound within a particular framework, within a particular belief system, within a particular social or way of believing and understanding by a particular community, particular society and group. But why when I say sacred these places, we mean to say that these places are the places which sacred means they are considered to be holy. They are considered to be belonging to a realm, in that realm which is revered or respected or trusted or believed and this is the both way how we look at the whole aspect of sacred. And what Surya Kakkar again said, I would say I will quote Surya Kakkar in this context is that he said that the whole weight of the community is religion, myth, history, enters sacred therapy as the therapist proceeds to mobilize strong psychic energies inside and outside the patient. This and this sacred may be involved in many ways, whether by the images of God or Lord Bhagavan or some kind of other majar places some kind of holy man. And through these, what he is trying to do in these healing practices is that they are trying to bring together the physical and the metaphysical world. And these world when they are brought together that the whole endeavor is to bring a harmony because we as we say that we these are not two separate worlds but we live as individual, we live in both the world the physical and the metaphysical and the healing for healing practices are trying to harmonize these two worlds within which we live. Now, these sacred practices are reinforced, many times these sacred practices are enforced by legends or by some kind of stories, this kind of stories or this kind of myth which are built around these healing places. All healing places which I have I have been studying a lot about these healing places have some story how it did begin, how it came into existence, how a particular healer has acquired the power of power the power to heal somebody. And their story is about that particular temple or that particular type of other kind of healing centers that there may be some for example, there was a place Krusulabad and they said that some cow was passing from that area and when she she sketched the land from her leg, some idol came out and they thought it was something miracle which happened. And that was miracle or not miracle I do not know but at least this is how the people believe that this particular idol is miracle and they put in a temple, small temple and that becomes healing center in that particular area which is frequented by large number of people. They are always associated some kind of rituals or the kind of rituals which are part of that sacred healing therapies and they are part of the healing center in the sense that they are either in there is a temple somewhere close to Udapub which I visited that people are supposed to enter in that temple crawling and this is how they see that some other kind of rituals they have to enter the temple folded hand they have to do some kind of rituals and then they can get into that holy place and this is one of the you know they ensure that the kind of reverence and the kind of faith and the belief which people have should be should be maintained. I saw in one place where I went to this healing center and I found that they maintained a register or all those people have visited this place I thought is very systematic and the good way of you know keeping a record who are coming and visiting these places there was a healing center which was famous for the purpose of you know strokes and epilepsy and all these kind of diseases. And in that register when I saw that particular register I found that they are hardly any case of a person who came to this place and has not recovered has not benefited. So, all these records show that the list and the names and addresses and problem which they are suffering of those people who have recovered. The whole purpose I could understand later on is that the purpose of looking and maintaining this record is to ensure that this is a place which is really effective in one way. I am sure there may be people who are going to visiting this places who have not benefited but all these reasons and stories which they can tell about these places. All these stories are stories of those stories which are stories of healing, stories of the recovering and again coming back to the health. The recovery may be marginal, the recovery may be very only may be perceptible only those who are seeing it, but that kind of recovery was you know observed and seen these places. So, this is another thing which I found that these kind of sacredness, the holiness of these places has been maintained and that it becomes whether is a healer or is a healing page that sacredness is very important consideration. The third was cultural compatibility. What I mean if you look at the medical practices, medical science and that medical practices and medical doctor is coming with a particular type of education or a kind of background. There is a belief in the kind of some kind of mal-functioning of the body, some kind of virus which is affecting our health and because of that they are falling sick. So, all kind of explanations, all kind of causality which is given by the medical doctor is in terms of the some kind of virus or some kind of bodily mal-functioning and these were the considerations which are considered. But if you look at and these are the doctors who come from particular section of the society, they are educated, they are coming from the educated and they speak a different language. They are taught and brought up and trained in a different way environment, but when we look at these healers, all these healers most of them come from the same region. They belong to the same community. They speak the same language. They know the families to whom they are treating. They have a long association with the people in that particular region area. They know what kind of problems people suffer in that particular area. So, if you look at and then you look in the terms of the belief system also, what they believe in, their health beliefs, in terms of health beliefs, their cultural beliefs, in terms of their cultural practices, they come from the same background to which the patient or people or those who are suffering belong to. So, there is a kind of compatibility. We can see the continuity in what they speak, the language they speak, the way they understand the problem and the way the patient understand the problem because they also have the faith and trust and subscribe to the same kind of value system and some kind of social and cultural practices. That is one of the factor because of which these healers very quickly can communicate and they can link or they can have a bond with these healers. That kind of bond which is established between the traditional healer and the patient, we do not see that kind of bond elsewhere, not very generally frequently, particularly in those hospitals and those places where there are hundreds of patients which the doctor has to see and it is not physically possible for him to know personally all the patients, the doctor is treating, but here these people are personally known, they subscribe to the same value system and they come from the same kind of background. Another thing is that the way they interpret their disease, the way these patients and the healers interpret their diseases, they do not interpret the disease in terms of the medical symptoms or in terms of physical symptoms, but most of these interpretations are in terms of some kind of a moral transmission, maybe one that they went somewhere and they violated, they should have moved before the holy people tree and they did not do it, they passed from some places where they should not have gone or where there are some kind of evil spirits reside. So, most of these kind of belief people have that these are the primary source of disease is these kind of evil spirits or some kind of moral or ethical transmission is one of the thing which is also taken into consideration that these are the reasons for which people fall sick. Now, third thing which I can say for the fourth in this context is that the kind of treatment which goes at these places, I would call it a kind of a community treatment. It is not like a one to one treatment or one to one consultation which goes on in the case of a clinical practices, psychotherapists will talk to the patient and then maybe I talk to other people from the family or from other people, but the whole consultation is one to one. In medical practices also he is more concerned about talking to the patient and here I have seen some of the places I went and stayed there what is actually happening and this is open space all these patients all these people who I want to consult a healer will go and assemble there and they talk about their problem openly before everybody there is no sense of privacy, there is no sense of hiding or different. They talk about what they are suffering from and what they think as the cause of the suffering and they think about the kind of background which they have and the healer is talking he is giving some kind of sessions he is talking. So, all these sessions which go on at these different places these are the sessions where you know everybody knows about the problem of everybody. There is nothing like a question of privacy and secrecy. Another thing is that these places everybody is participating in the treatment process whole community and people is involved in that process of participation. So, there is a larger role for the community for the family to participate and that becomes important that person when he is sick that what actually happens and medical many studies one of the people are sick they domain of their world shrinks they get more and more confined to themselves. And what these kind of healing practices are doing that they are bringing other person out out back into the society out back into the community and field family. So, that who has become individual in the sense of the term has become again a social being an active and a social participant in the community life in the village or in the community. This is another thing and one thing which we noticed during this period what these healers do they create a positive image of well being. This is one of the things they do is that positive image of the well being in the sense that they create that kind of ambience at these healing places centers or at the place of where they are doing this treatment that by using different kind of what we call the essence or kind of chanting or bhajans or other kind of activities some kind of group dancing and sometimes they are drumming all kind of activities which go at different places. These activities are conducting the sense that person should have that kind of sense of well being that he is part of a larger community not only larger community but they by through these methods different ways they can create a kind of imagery in the mind of the person that everything is going to be all right. Their anxieties and their worries you know may be taken care of. So, this sense of well being which is inculcated in this person through different kind of rituals and different kind of practices that becomes very important that the rituals and practices you know only they facilitate the process of bringing the person hope only is very important that I am going to be all right. This hope is very important for recovery from any kind of problem any kind of mental or physical problem. Another is a faith that the kind of place I have come I have come to the right place and I think this place is going to this person is going to help me in recovering and that kind of ambience and that kind of imagery that everything is going to be all right. Things will recover and improve. People come with go with these places or inculcate of these kind of mental state when they visit these places and which is very important. Recovering from any kind of problem is very important that you have hope and you trust people around you and you think what is whatever will be being done will be of help in improving this condition. Another thing which is in this case is we say that this is a treatment only not only for the patient this is not they are not healing the person they also attending the doing the treatment for the family and the larger community and that is important that everybody is participating in this process. I have been working we are doing some work in the villages of near Ilhabad and one of the problem which is really very prevalent in this case mental health problem is the hysteria. Lot of women in that area suffer from hysteria and we went to see that how these healing centers treat people women who are suffering from hysteria because this is the morally predominantly problem for the women and for particularly for the younger women and we saw that the family is a joint family most of cases what we find that cases which we saw that those were coming from the joint family big family there and there is a new bride in the family. What happens that that new bride has to follow the convention the tradition the orders the expectations of the whole family members anybody can tell her anything anybody can even harass her abuse her and she is not supposed to talk react give it back in the very traditional society. If you think about the very other kind of agrarian and very village and traditional society and what is happening in that case the whole anger is accumulating over long period of time. She wants to react and she is not able to react and what happens that when she is no longer can take it in the situation there is a burst she becomes hysterical and when she becomes hysterical she can do anything she can throw stone at the family members she can abuse them she can run away she can all kind of things she can do and it is not taken offense why because it is believed that it is there when she gets hysterical it is believed that she is possessed by some kind of evil spirit. If she is doing under the under the under the that spell of that evil spirit then it is not she is doing who is doing it. So, nobody takes on any offense she can do anything and her catharsis has taken place whatever she wants to say whatever she wants to do she is able to do it and nobody takes on the offense of it. She is taken to this healing centers because if this evil spirit which has to be driven away and all kind of treatment they do there you know and and because of that they kind of even the kind of a jar food to some kind of beating also in some which takes place in some places I have seen it and kind of you know shouting and kind of kind of just to just to try away that particular spirit. It was that spirit is driven away and the person person she is normal then there is no stigma of it she is again back to the family she is working in the family and but what happens that the whole family is participating in this process and there is a fear that this spirit evil spirit may come back anytime. So, now they are treating that bride more humanly more with the concern and they are more careful that she should be you know her well-being should be taken care of. I think if you look at from that point of view that we may call it superstition if you look from that point of view that it is serving a purpose and there is no stigma no stigma I said that that even if a person is gone to metal hospital for just a visit he visits a psychiatrist even for few occasions. Then that person carries that stigma for the rest of the life that he person has a mental health problem he visited some kind of a psychiatric or counseling centre and that kind of stigma is not there. I know one thing that I have seen even this kind of family treatment that they are healing that they may be many places they are distortions they are abuses and they kind of think which happen. Which I have seen that mostly these are highlighted by the medical doctors and medical practitioners and both who are educated they these are exaggerated in many ways they are happening yes this kind of malpractices are there but these are more exaggerated by the by the educated class because they are not able to understand what is happening. They only see that and these they are these kind of distortions and these kind of abuses are there yes but if you look at the even the medical science if you look at the other kind of treatment process these are everywhere even the American data shows that the 40 percent of the surgery which are conducted we have done or the patient was not required at all and these surgeries take place. In the large number of cases where patient does not need a medicine or overdose of medicine these are being given by the doctors. So, that they are quacks in this system also in the four killing system they are quacks they are cheats they are people who are there for different purposes but still that system you know if you look in the larger context and you look understand what they are doing actually when they are doing a kind of a proper treatment they ease a kind of a psychological and social and spiritual component which is part of it. Who are these healers and how does it work? And I think I will devote some time to this particular aspect that how these healers work. As I said one thing is that these healers belong to the same community they come from the same community. So, there is a greater faith there is a greater trust and there is a greater communication with the people with this kind of healers by healers within that particular community. Now, one point which I want to make in this context is that there are healers are supposed to have some kind of a healing powers and these healing powers are not acquired by practice or by training or by but these powers are bestowed on them are given to them for the purpose of helping the community, helping the people and helping the society. So, in most of the cases if you look at this healing system and I think I have seen this healing system even these hold over the world that this in this healing system healing is a kind of a social work is not a profession. They may be doing some other things they may be doing some other kind of activity for the livelihood in their living. But they it is not that there are the means of living and means of their earning and in this case if it is not earning that is kind of social work if you look from the them most of these healers are doing some other kind of work which we have seen. But many of these healers and these healers are on their own kind of offer these services and not only offer these services these services you know are acknowledged and accepted by the community as a kind of you know a kind of contribution to the society. Another thing which I see in the in this case is that though people are not paying directly is not like a medical system that you pay 50 rupees 100 rupees that you feed to a doctor and go and get treatment. These healers are not supposed to charge. In fact this is from I have been reading a 15 20 other articles from other places from other regions for America even the the natives of that particular place or tribal communities in different places or a very original people that this practice is everywhere that these healers are not supposed to charge. If they charge any money for what they are doing then it is believed that the healing powers will be gone. So, this is a kind of service which is kind of free service. This is not a part of the commercial setup if you look at from traditional point of view it is happening now I can we can see that it is becoming more and more commercial and that is the but it traditionally it was never anywhere in the world. This is the kind of a service they are providing voluntarily. But it was not that these people were not compensated for what they were for what they were doing. Society was taking many times the local communities were taking care of their needs. What will happen then the person gets well they feel treated or they feel obliged to offer some kind of a you know some kind of offering in terms of material in terms of in the terms of items or gifts or some kind of you know therefore some grains or some kind of other thing for the livelihood. So, this kind of offering in terms of offering in terms of as a sense of debtitude people were doing but they were not supposed to charge. And I think that was important aspect of this that these were supposed to be voluntary services. Another thing I would like to say in this case in this sense is that these healers do not make any distinction as I also mentioned in the beginning of different kind of problems. So, this is a social problem. This is a problem where somebody has got lost his family member or some other kind of tragedy has happened in family or somebody has lost his business or somebody has another kind of you know social or kind of personal problem or physical problem or mental problem. The what is happening that the healer which are working tradition healer were working do not make this kind of clear distinction between one one one this depending on the symptoms and the kind of this this problem is different from the other kind of problem. The kind of treatment which happens which is which is which is taking place in these places is almost uniform for this kind of different kind of problems. So, what because I said I said in the beginning that the healer is treating the person not the problem he dealing with the person. And he dealing in a more holistic manner in the sense that the holistic manner in the sense that that all problems have some kind of may result into some kind of physical or the mental health problems. Even if there is a loss in the business it may happen eventually that that may lead to some kind of a mental health or some kind of depression or some kind of other kind of problem. So, that kind of discrimination or this kind of classification which we make in the modern medical practices that kind of classification that kind of differentiation has not been very much practiced by these people. I said in the beginning they may be group, peer, diviner, they may be someone's they may be jarfoom person they may be some kind of fortune teller they may be other kind of all these whole range of healers. And I am talking what I am talking about is that which are being there and who are providing these kind of services healing services through the community. And I think this is important that what we our heritage we have the what kind of tradition we have and what kind of experience we have that can should be brought into the health care programs of the country. Because looking at the present scenario and looking at that we do not have sufficient doctors in the country we do not have the infrastructure for health care at present. I think these people who are providing a service in any case and these people who are acknowledged and accepted by a larger section of the society how these people can be brought within the realm of the public health care system. I think this is one of the issue which is a primary issue for the purpose that there are many studies which are even done in the west and Wimport was one of the person who wrote a very famous book. He did a survey of a large number of psychotherapies and their practices and he was trying to understand what helps person to recover or to to gain his mental health again restore his mental health. And he found that he took the their practices like whether what kind of system what kind of a particular they subscribed to and in what kind of environment they talk about they also took the person and what he found important that most of the larger think of variance was accounted by the psychotherapist as a person not his practices or not his techniques or not what he was doing but as a person. How psychotherapist as a person is able to relate with the patient? What goes on that in the communication with the patient at the conscious and both at the unconscious level how that person how the psycho is be able to give him that feeling of trust and hope that he was he is going to recover and that is what he found is the book which has come out in 2001 that clearly he says that the person as a therapist is much more important than the techniques which they use. If you look at from that point of view also and also we look at the point of view that most of the treatment in the larger cases that these people are doing traditional healers are doing is providing a kind of psychological insurance a kind of hope that things are going to be alright. These are the people with whom they can communicate in a close part of you know they are available all the time they are there and they can go and consult them which is not possible which is not happening in the modern present set up in the mental health or physical health practices. So, when these people are available they can go and consult these people this is they are what they actually providing maybe what we found that they may not be able to treat the problem whatever physical mental health problem there but they are able to give this assurance of hope to these people that things will be alright and maybe their well-being will be restored and which is very critical for the purpose of recovery from any kind of social or mental health problem. So, that role they are playing and because of their the kind of role they are playing in many countries like Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand, other countries what they have done is that they have tried to bring them together the medical doctor and these traditional healers because medical doctor can take care of the physical symptoms and the healer can take about the all kind of psychosocial problems which are accompanying that kind of physical problem. So, what they do in the case in many cases this is in Sri Lanka particularly that the person may go to healer first and these healers are given some kind of training also that which kind of problem they should be looking at which kind of problem they should not be looking at is a serious problem is a cancer or kind of a other kind of very serious problem then they should immediately refer the person to a specialist. So, their role becomes a kind of referral providing the first level contact and first level material services and I think this kind of model which they have followed in Indonesia and Sri Lanka I have seen that may be a kind of a model which we can think of that how these two kind of stream the traditional and the modern we need both can be combined together to provide a more effective and larger services to the society and the community.