 Given that we have a quorum of the council present. I'm going to call the meeting to order at 6 30 p.m. and Let me just state that I do know that Steve Schreiber will be arriving but late and I don't know where shallony is, but we'll see okay First of all, I'd like to call attention to the agenda above and Just mentioned to you that there are numerous meetings both joint meetings with the finance committee where we have count committees of the whole Joint meetings with the community resource committee also we have committees of the whole for the opportunity to learn more about the master plan and zoning and Then we also have a public hearing coming up on March 21st That will be at the bang Center in the large activity room and then on the 10th of June we have a public forum on the capital improvement program Just taking a moment to answer a question that was asked to me quite back quite a while back and that is a Hearing is done in a way that in which there is no required amount of public comment But we certainly welcome it a public forum is done in a way in which 50% of the time must be devoted to public comment so Although in both cases, there'll be presentations as well could we also have the slide That shows the timing for tonight's meeting We can enlarge it. I just want to show you these are our goals in terms of timing Shared this with the council earlier today So that we hope to be out of here by 10 o'clock that takes the cooperation of all of us in the audience as well So with that we all move on to Public comment and let me just state the following we will receive general public comment on matters that are Other than those under agenda items 6b 6c 7a and 7b public comment on those agenda items will be taken at the relevant times during the meeting Residents are welcome to express their views for one to three minutes depending on how many people we have at at end Based on that the council will not engage in a dialogue or comment on matters raised during general public comment when making public comment, please come forward to the table in the center of the room and State your name and address and So we'll start with are there any residents of Amherst that would might like to make general public comment Please come forward You know you have three minutes. Thank you. My name is Beth Rigby and I'm homeless I've not been able to run my once successful Yoga workshop business after the sudden deaths of both my nephew and father while directing courses in Sedona, Arizona I fled an unsafe housing situation in Great Barrington November 11th where the landlord illegally retaliated against me For reporting them to the health department with no heat and hot water After many traumatic events I ended up at Craig's place on January 11th where I met very friendly staff and guests I do not do drugs or drink and thus perhaps and more aware and observant at The shelter and more able to speak up for those unable to speak Early February a guest had mentioned the rapid rehousing program and I eagerly inquired on February 21st I was awarded rapid rehousing from the shelter offering to pay it move in deposits and rent for a year I felt I had won the lottery as my housing had been so traumatic since the loss of my nephew and father I looked for apartments and found one at Pilly Perry apartments in Amherst Jerry Gates quickly put a deposit on it for me before I had read the lease So I thought I was not locked into that apartment yet because I had not read the lease No procedures for rapid rehousing were discussed. No rules and regulations were discussed and it was all very casual I later found out that I was supposed to read the lease Before deposits Please move it back from the mic. Oh, okay. Thank you. Thank you Two days later. I found out there was a cigarette smoker next door to where I would be living in the apartment for which I'm highly allergic I told Craig shelter immediately. I cannot take this apartment. I'm highly allergic Since I had not signed or even read the lease. I thought it was okay, but they pressured me I pressured me into taking an apartment that was not suitable for me. So I went anyway afraid. I'll become homeless again The lease was incorrect. It came in. I was high-pressure to sign an unethical Improper lease that came in badgered by the secretary and screamed at thinking simply because I was homeless. I could be mistreated Same with Craig's place. I was being pressured to take an apartment that wasn't suitable for me The secretary was screaming at me at Caimans and I left I Called Craig's place immediately and said I left I was shaken And I know it's illegal to sign any documents under emotional distress The shelter texted me and said all was fine. Don't worry about it. So I thought I just kept looking for apartments all weekend on Monday, I texted saying I was still looking for apartments and Aiden said that was fine Three days later. I got an email from the executive director Jade saying that my apartment funds were given to somebody else Who wanted that apartment at Perry and I have to wonder is there anything Going on between Caimans and Craig's place that I would get thrown under the bus when I did not take the apartment at Perry I was mortified as there had always been at least seven or eight beds available at the shelter I was then illegally retaliated against and lost my bed that I'd had for two months to keep me from Complaining about their mishandling of my rapid rehousing. They did not follow the proper set of procedures For rapid rehousing thus further destabilizing me and further traumatizing me Witnesses saw me turned away into the cold and rain regardless of beds available. I emailed the board. I emailed many of you in this room Trying to find the proper grievance procedure for the mistreatment I received at Craig's doors No one's been able to help me yet. I was hurt and my PTSD Escalated into contacting town management the government and the attorney general I've since heard of others being very hurt at the shelter as well with no place to vent their Mistreatment. There is no process for grievance I'm pleased requesting the town to implement and oversee the proper administration of rapid rehousing funded by HUD and And to please install a proper grievance process So that one knows the proper way to file a complaint of mistreatment at the shelter I fired off emails in every direction because I wasn't aware of any grief process breach of contract inflection of emotional distress and illegal retaliation or the tip of the iceberg that I've experienced at the shelter and my time is probably almost up, but I would just ask that someone please at the town Provide some oversight over there because I think the board is lazy and ineffective And I think they work in unison with the staff. So there's no separate entity between the board and the staff Thank you very much Thank you for your comments Other comments this evening Rob Good evening Rob Custner band meet or drive That's a very difficult discussion to follow. I Hope I have good news. I didn't realize that the shirt I was wearing might have to follow something so serious, but I feel relief at least in the front and transit and I'm happy to report. I think you'll hear more about it from the manager later. I understand it may be in his report, but that Finally after a year of effort at least the core services on route 30 and 31 that serve Everywhere from North Amherst to East Amherst to South Amherst. They will be extended during the summer break Perhaps into the future. I Really want to thank the manager and the PBTA rep Doug Slaughter and also particularly Glenn Barrington for Continuing to work on this in spite of what looked like impossible odds I don't know whether you've received separate confirmation from Glenn Barrington But I did get a copy of the schedule this morning, which I believe it's been shared either with some of you I know it was shared with the press And I just ask that in addition to what you just heard from the previous speaker attend to Making sure that this service is well used do your best to make sure that people are aware of it Do your best to continue to support it and I'll stop now because I may be contributing to the transportation enterprise Fund it may go any longer. So thank you and let's keep an eye on it over the summer. Thank you Thank you for your comments. Are there any other people that would like to comment a bit in general? Okay, if not, we're going to move on to proclamations common Commemorations and the first one is race amity day and ash cart Hartwell is here with us Thank you. I will Try to make this brief because 10 o'clock is not far off with your agenda, but I feel Kind of sad to be here making this plea because the person who would normally be here is Ray Elliott who passed away last month and Has the chair and organizer for the citizens for racial amity now And has been a force for good in the Amherst community over many years And I just thought it'd be helpful to make a tribute to that and to recognize that I'm kind of Standing in for Ray who's with us in spirit if not actuality Back in 2015 the Amherst town through the town meeting and then the select board Issued the proclamation that the second Sunday of each year would be recognized as a race amity day And each year the select board has reaffirmed that and so I'm coming to you as the new government in town to to also reaffirm the proclamation for race amity day and The whole purpose of the race amity day is to raise the consciousness of our oneness As a human family and to recognize that ultimately social justice is best served By deep ties of friendship and commitments and that we want to celebrate that and we want to celebrate it by also recognizing the rich diversity and the culture that is is Part of human oneness is its diversity That we we're not saying everybody should be the same by that term But rather that we should recognize our oneness as a race a human race and to celebrate its diversity and that really is Is done also to recognize that those bonds of friendship beyond friendship to commitments Are the best foundation for achieving social justice? You do not let your sister and your brother Suffer you care for them and we feel that this is something that is important to celebrate and to observe so I'm asking you As the new government to reaffirm this proclamation I think everybody has seen the proclamation and and articulated I would also recommend that this be done in perpetuity as it is done for the state of Massachusetts But that each year we kind of reaffirm So that would be a that would that would be a to do the other the other thing Is I would like to ask you We are having the memorial for Ray Elliot on the 8th of June and in the afternoon and it's going to be a big event and So we're not as a citizens for race amity to we're not going to put on another big event the next day for race Amity day we're rather going to have an observance on the town hall and we would invite a Representative or representatives of the council to read the proclamation at that time there will be an observance There will be music. There will be a few things to be said But it's not going to be a a big event that we often have so that's a second Consideration that I'd like to make and the third one is that um The we like the town council to consider ways of encouraging not just kind of this one day But this encouraging a way forward and one one Proposal we have is to send out a communication to the leaders of faith communities Which actually encourages them to take a few steps one is simply to recognize it the day on that Sunday The the 9th of June in their various communities of worship And they may even go further and say wouldn't it be a good idea if we could Exchange our congregations and maybe even our pastors imams or rabbis So that we recognize this This idea of celebrating each other's diversity and so that's a that I've put on the I put on the docket and We have the we have the addresses in all the details about how that would be done and And of course citizens for race amity would be very racial amity would be very happy to support I'll leave it at that any questions. I'm backed up here by Michael Manju was a strong backer So anybody has any questions we'd be glad to we'd be glad to answer them Are there any questions from the council? So do I hear a motion and the motion is to adopt the race amity proclamation as presented and amended Motion Pat second Alyssa Actually just looking to see if we were okay. Are you pretty now? We have a discussion excellent So I'm so happy you could be here Ray and Michael. Thank you so much for being here It's so hard to miss Ray during this annual event. So thank you both for channeling all his goodness for us here at this event I want to also mention something that's that's less about the exciting nature of this event Which I'm glad that you're able we're able to combine with raise Memorial the day before Rather than expecting people to manage two events back to back Is also in terms of just how things work going forward. So town meeting Pass this back in 2015 as some of you were there and know that but when that happens Nothing happens after that and so town meeting says yay We did this and then the nothing happens And so the select board did realize that hey We need to make sure we say this every year and so I appreciate what Ray brought up about in perpetuity but figuring out a way to keep this on our calendar as well as include you know being more inclusive and More embracing of what it actually means beyond just a piece of paper. We check off every spring But also as we do proclamations of any kind of nature We need to understand that unless we redo something there's nothing happens After you do a legislative action sometimes so the way to bring it back was to have the annual proclamation and read it at The ceremony so just something to be thinking about long term as you know We get to this really great position and then what happens after that So this is what we're able to do with this particular proclamation annually And we were even ahead of the curve in terms of the state government Thank you to Ray and others who worked on that so just food for thought for future But thank you so much for being here tonight other comments Dorothy I Don't think the town council is the appropriate body to organize an exchange of religious congregations And I think there is such a body of Leaders of the various houses of worship in town already Yes, that should they would be the proper ones to do that, but we can certainly come to your event and your memorial Thank you. What time what time on June 8th is the memorial? The two o'clock two o'clock. Thank you two o'clock on the ninth Please thank you so on on the ninth We would just like to be able to go on the steps of the town hall in the back steps here And just have people be able to say some words and honoring Ray and maybe play the song Or two while we're there and I'll have a wireless microphone And when I'm gonna be you know songs and dance and everything but it would just be you know being able to honor Ray When would you like the proclamation read on the eighth or the ninth that will be on the ninth? Okay, and that will be at what time on the ninth steps, right at two o'clock at two o'clock Thank you because we have gathered and I usually try to be there and I ask any other counselors Who can be there and so I just wanted to get the time correct. Okay a clarification You mentioned the interfaith opportunities network. Yes, right. Thank you. Yeah, so are there any other questions? I do have one more clarification. It's the second Sunday in June every year That we want to So so now at the very end of the proclamation says therefore the town of Amherst hereby proclaims Sunday June 9th 2019 to be race amity day a celebration of oneness of the human family all those in favor, okay, that's 12 of us and one is absent. Thank you so much. We look forward to seeing you Thank you all great and and we'll see Steve on the side. Yes The next is the 50th anniversary of Amherst a better chance proclamation Wendy Kolar if you would just also sign in as Speaking Wendy. Thank you and state your name and where you and where you live Hi, I'm Wendy Kolar 15 Ash Lane and Amherst and I'm the president of the board of directors of Amherst a better chance Great, would you like to speak to your event and I would Thank you very much for Inviting us and for it seems very appropriate for me to talk with you briefly About Amherst a better chance and the celebration of its 50th anniversary Just following the discussion of race amity day and taking action and making commitment In this case, of course To provide a better chance to deserving young men of color to live in Amherst and to go to Amherst high school This is the 50th anniversary of a program. That is truly a community based Program in every way that you can imagine fully volunteer Established 50 years ago by the good people of Amherst individuals the churches members of the college and university communities Establishing one of the first community based programs that was part of a national effort We're celebrating the 50th anniversary at a gala on the 15th of June And we're going to honor Both Judy and Barry Brooks We've decided that what could be more appropriate to represent all the elements of the community and dedication Then through Judy and Barry I particularly want to note Judy as we are in this room that used to be where the board of select men met and Judy Of course was a distinguished member of that board Judy and Barry not only great educators and beloved citizens and community activists But some of you may not know they were early resident directors lived in the house for about five years in the 1970s We are Talking about this celebration saying calling it celebrating the past and building for our future I wish I could sit here and say that we don't need a better chance, but we do I wish that the fine young men who are living in Amherst now could be with me tonight to meet you But they have study hours right now. So they can't they have to they have to study But perhaps you can join us at the celebration and get to meet them and join us in honoring our young men and believing in our future together and I Certainly on behalf of everyone in ABC appreciate The attention that the town council is giving to this momentous occasion. So thank you Okay, the motion is to adopt the 50th anniversary of Amherst a better chance proclamation as presented Yes, I saw Dorothy and a second Andy Then further discussion Yes, Pat, I think this is a wonderful program It I'm curious about why it does not include a young woman Or you know people ask us a lot why there isn't a women's program. There are Actually more women's community-based programs than men's programs and they're actually at the time that The Amherst program for boys was established one very close to that time was Established in South Hadley for young women We've honestly had people approach us about establishing a separate house It's quite a lot to raise six to eight boys One can imagine a co-ed house would have a lot of challenges to it but We would be more than interested in doing that if we had the resources and support to do so but happily there are More opportunities actually for girls than boys in New England for this kind of program Are there any other comments George just could you repeat the the time and day of the gala the gala? Yes, thank you. Did I plant you there? Okay? It's at the campus center starting at 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock on Saturday June 15th with party on with DJ especially for our well for me and the alums of the program we many of our alums are coming back and It's going to be a really special time So thank you Saturday June 15th Any further comments? I just mentioned to the council that I will be there. I've been asked to Present the proclamation and bought our tickets today. I cannot accept an offer a free ticket. Thank you. I look forward to joining you Thank you. All those in favor and that's also 12 to and then one missing. Thank you Thank you very much and thank you for your good work and good luck Thank you We are going to move on to Presentations and the first one is on the budget. Let me just say I want to recognize the town manager Sonia and the rest of the staff for putting together and assembling crafting this annual budget It's no small task as we all know Please note that this is just the beginning of the budget process and as indicated at the very beginning of our agenda There are several meetings Including a public hearing where the budget will be dissected discussed and include public comment Therefore, we are not taking public comment on the budget this evening when the budget recommendations come forward to the finance committee To the town council and at our public hearing. We will include public comment at that time Mr. Rockland. Thank you and And thank you for allowing me to have time to present this on Wednesday May 1st in accordance with the Charter you receive notice that and Published at the same time on the town bulletin board that the town's budget was available to the public for review. This is sort of the formal handing off to the council and What you have as part of the budget is a number of things It's the municipal budget which includes the four enterprise funds plus all the operations for police fire public works Everything like that. It's the elementary school budget It's the library budget It's the regional school budget which you have already reviewed and approved back on April 22nd And it's a capital improvement program Which was also due to you on May 1st Other parts of the budget just so you have a full financial picture of the town is the community preservation act budget and That which is CPA the CPAC committee report and the community community development block grant budget, which is the CDBG budget So those are the things that you have in in your that's been published online That anybody can look at and that you'll be reviewing The town budget is this book This is what it looks like it you all have it electronically We can give you hard copies if you love hard copies and some people do and that's fine I do So it's I'm not sure how many pages it is 214 pages of riveting reading that You will memorize as we go through this process as The president said this is an important Task it couldn't be done without staff work Sonya Aldridge who's our interim finance director led the team to put this entire program together She worked with Maria Raqqa who's been working for the town for 28 years 28 plus years. This is her last budget that she's doing So she has moved to Maine and we've been holding on to her for the last couple years But now it's time for her to seek other opportunities and she's taking that on and But she's left incredible legacy of detailed analysis of every aspect of the budget And she really is the workhorse that pulls things together and I want to thank her specifically and hoping that she'll come down to So you get to meet her and talk to her yourselves Holly Bowser who's the assistant comptroller also was critical and has taken a much more of a leadership role in the preparation of this budget so We focus on the budget But we also have our partners in the superintendent of schools and finance director Mike Morrison Sean McGonough and the library director Sharon sharing Who all put a tremendous amount of work into their budgets which become part of this budget? So I just interrupt a minute I'm just trying to find this document. Is it in the package? It is not George is looking at it. So I would like to also so it's on it's on it's online anybody at home Amherst MA gov slash budget The budget you requested as a paper one. Yes. Oh the slides. Is that what you're asking the slides are not up yet They were in an email Okay, they're on on the town Website for the meeting SharePoint I think we were gonna put all the documents in a separate budget Thing on SharePoint just to separate it and help to keep it organized. I'm not sure what that looks like Okay, Darcy Okay, thank you. Please continue. Thank you So this is a budget process that begins in the fall it continues through the winter and We learned a lot in this budget process Especially because it was sort of a hybrid year half the half of the Preparation period was under the select board and finance committee. The other half was under the council I'm really proud of what we did how we how we accomplished how we got to this day But I think we can learn we've learned a lot from it and we can always do better And so welcome your comments back to us on how to make it more digestible as you go through this information So the Overview of the budget is that it's a very strong budget it maintains Built on our solid financial position it maintains our reserves at 15.6% of our budget and that's the target for us is between 5 and 15% So we slightly exceed our high our upper limit our free cash is set at 3.1 million and stabilization funds at 9.4 million This is as of June 30th 2018. So we have good reserves in our budget The second is that it's not a fancy budget It just sustains our core services in the operating budgets and that means the operating budgets are going up 3.2 percent The one thing it does do is it increases our commitment to capital right now. We're at 9 percent. We're moving our Commitment to capital to 9.5 percent of the tax-loving This is sort of like a required communication. It's a balanced budget. It uses our existing stream Streams of existing revenues. It does not use reserves and it does not request an operating budget override And it includes all the anticipated contractual payroll Requirements when for our union contracts, we do not have all the union contracts negotiated But we have a reserve in there So we won't be coming back to you saying oh we settled this union contract. We need more money We don't anticipate doing that and that's our mission So we always start with revenues tax property tax revenue is going up to an half percent Which is what's the maximum permissible under proposition two and a half plus? We have new growth Which is new construction? Additions to houses things like that and that creates about about a four percent increase we project a four percent increase in revenue our local receipts are Projected to go up five and a half percent which is a which is a healthy increase Most of that is driven by motor vehicle excise tax and that's because yes as you buy a new car You pay more taxes on it because it's valued higher And so we see that be continuing to be strong, but we're you know, that's totally susceptible to the economy if the economy starts to Shutter a little bit people stop buying cars. They stop stop doing additions to their houses things like that That we're that's our vulnerability State aid is a major part of our budget it constitutes 20% of our budget the state has Not been stepping up to the plate and while the town continues to provide in that two and a half to four percent range The states we're projecting at 1.8 percent increase in their commitment to the budget You will see later Request for you are the board of water and sewer commissioners You will see a request for an increase in water and sewer rates at 2.6 percent Our rates are already below average. This keeps them will maintain that below average Level both a slight in increase down the road We're going to be looking for increases in water and sewer rates because there's a lot of investment We have to make into the water system and into the sewer system as more regulations come down and we are subject to More Requirements from the state and from the federal government the major thing we had to contend with this year was our reduction in receipts from that we got for ambulance receipts from the town of Hadley As you know last year we had a contract with the town of Hadley to provide emergency medical services The contract included the money that Hadley paid us annually for that Plus all the ambulance revenue when we do an ambulance run we bill the Insurance company of the person that's being transported when we added that all up the loss was about six hundred thousand dollars So that we have incorporated that into that reduction into the budget, which was a challenge for us We did not do any reductions in staff at the fire department. The fire department was already At the brink in terms of our fire study had shown this I think this reduction in Significant reduction of 20% of their runs Will alleviate that over that demand on the fire department for a period of time It flies in like this So this sort of gives you a picture of what I basically said We're highly dependent on property taxes 66% of our revenue comes from property taxes The next largest is state aid so state aid is really important to the town of Amherst and then we have our local receipts These are the budget numbers that you will be reviewing over time the municipal budget is at 24 million five hundred eight four thousand The elementary schools twenty three million twenty three point eight million Regional schools sixteen point four million library as I think I've mentioned before is a hybrid system It gets tax support from the town and in the range of two million dollars, and then it also has Private funds that it supports its operations with In addition to that we have our capital that we contribute about over five point four million dollars to every year A retirement and OPEB OPEB is other post-employment benefits That's health insurance for retired employees and that continues to grow and our assessments That's stuff that comes down from the state our lock-up facility things like that So the grand total of the town's budget is eighty three million four hundred and forty six thousand seven hundred eighty six dollars That's a three point two percent increase over Fy nineteen So where did this money? What are the driving factors in this? The 2.6% increase is what goes to the operating budgets of the schools the library and that in the municipal services While I talked about the hard thing of having the ambulance fees Not from Hadley not coming in one thing that was to our benefit this year is that Last year we made a significant change when support from the unions and all the employees to go from a Self-insured program and health insurance group health insurance to a fully insured program That paid off this year because our increase was point six percent That's less than one percent for our health insurance increase, which is our major cost for other than salaries for for the town a Caution note is that that won't happen next year. That's that pretty much helped us a tremendous amount this year We don't I don't anticipate a point six percent next year it will probably more be more in line with with what Health insurance inflation is and I already mentioned our increased commitment to the capital budget So here we come So this shows the divide between the town and blue elementary school and the regional school district our Commitment to capital at five point four million and the other things just visually so you can see We're really about half of our money goes to the schools and the rest of it goes for town and fix other fixed costs So what are we investing in so again this year? With the support of the JCPC we're we're a Asking for a million dollars to put into town roads. That's the second year that we're at that number Previously we were in the three hundred thousand dollar range for for roads That's an important investment in the roads that you all are hearing about in driving on on a regular basis That will go with eight hundred and forty one thousand dollars that we get regularly in chapter 90 funds from the state We continue to lobby the state for two things one is a larger commitment to local roads because they collect a lot of motor vehicle taxes and gas taxes, but it doesn't come to us and That they make a multi-year budget so that we can be certain as we go forward The second thing the second highest priority has been our investment in sidewalks This year in the pit in the past prior Prior to last year we would put in about thirty thousand dollars for sidewalks this year We've made a commitment and JCPC supported it of putting two hundred thousand dollars in town funds into sidewalk improvements We also have twenty thousand dollars set aside in the budget for Pedestrian and for lights and pedestrian safety. This is for engineering work to prepare for other kind of work We are also investing in our existing buildings So over a million dollars that we that we've set aside and there's these are all laid out in the JCPC report For exterior maintenance building envelope repairs our approach is that the first thing you do as you prevent You put you make sure the roofs are good so the water doesn't come into the building energy conservation and energy management projects Interior maintenance that needs to always be done on all of our buildings and then security improvements Which is basically putting on more key lock keypads on on doors that are You know the little button things that you can get in instead of keys so we continue to do that We also have money set aside now this is not an appropriation this would be borrowing It would be subject to a separate town council vote for three of our major Facilities the public works fire department and school we have the JCPC has Included this on the budget line item, but I wanted to call it out separately here Because it's not really part of our capital investment until the council agrees to borrow the funds, but this will put us in good Take take the first steps for starting to address each of these facilities This will go part will be part and parcel to your larger discussion about how to fund all these projects Which you will be working on over the next six months You know I know the finance committee and JCPC has talked in the council has talked with Sean mangana the finance director who with the school department who's been working as capital projects manager This has to be vetted through the public so everybody understands how these all these major projects are going to fit together So where we are now We're we're making the presentation to you Previously, you know during the fall we do the four boards meeting where we forecast We allocate we meet internally we meet and refine we finalize the budget We had the public forum back in March to listen to people and now we're in the presentation And so the next step is that You receive the budget. I think the motion on your motion sheet tonight is to refer it to the finance committee The finance committee has a very aggressive schedule pretty much soaking up every afternoon to every Tuesday and Thursday afternoon during May Where individual department heads will come in and talk to the finance committee and it's posted Simultaneously as a meeting of the full-town council. So anybody's welcome to come and participate and our time department heads will come in sit here You'll know what you know what the schedule is You know what department is coming in so you can just read that part of it if that's what you're interested in bring your questions We've told them to make a relatively brief presentation that we want them to present The highlights of their budget the major changes from the private prior year and the challenges that they See but really respond to people's questions So they're answering the questions that you're raising instead of them talking for too long Which they're all willing to do because they're also proud of their operation. They can't help but talk about it And so we're trying to hold them back and say be responsive to what the council is looking for So that's May on May 21st is the public hearing that public hearing is going to be at the banks community center There's a conflict with them with the school committee who's like they love to use this room too And we had said oh council never meets on Thursday night. Sure. That's a good night in that and they were all So and I think it actually will work better for us because we don't know how many people will show up in the banks The large activity room in the banks community center can see the lot of people so that will be a good option for that or we've requested Amherst media to record both meetings and So I think hopefully that will happen the finance committee after you after the council if the assuming the council refers the finance community is 30 days to make a recommendation back to you which would take it to June 3rd, I think Then then the council has the month of June to deliberate on it Our hope is that you will all participate on the days that you think are important during May so that you get your questions Answered during that process Your deadline under the Charter to approve the budget is June 30th Again everything is online at Amherst MA gov slash budget and all these documents And if there's something that's there that it's not there that you think should be there Please let us know and that's Sonia, do you have something to add at this time? Sure great job, Paul No, it's great job Sonia. Thank you Are there questions from the council at this time? Yes, sat Shalini. I Was wondering if the marijuana sales and the Airbnb sales revenue is reflected somewhere here No, they're not and department of revenue recommends that we not Project those because they're such we don't know what they're going to be So until we have a full year of revenue coming in and we know it We have a little more certainty about what those revenues could be so next year Assuming we have a full year. We might begin to start projecting that but we usually do I mean sonia is very good at being very conservative on our projections We watch our trends we have October that's what that's all about the 10 year trends and all the revenues and everything so we keep a really close eye on that and We're Discouraged from using any new revenue unless there's a trend Is that also true of marijuana revenue marijuana and Airbnb both? Okay? Are there other questions from the council at this time? Yes, it's It's a question, but also a comment on when Paul showed us that last slide of dates You there's also a separate forum on capital on June 10th and one of the questions I had and I think we'll ask it again in finance is what do you envision where? One part is the whole budget which has capital in it and then there'll be a more focused discussion on Capital do you have any thoughts of how you're going to? Split those two on what that might be like. That's a really good point I will we can add this amend this for the presentation. So it went goes online. It has that date in there. It should have been there I think that the forum Will again, that's that's for the public to weigh in on the capital projects I think that's where people will have the most interest honestly It's really how the council wants to manage it. I don't really have predetermined Can I just do a follow-up on it? I actually had a quest one of the residents in district one said To get people to come they have to feel that they might have their voices might have an impact And if it's we've already worked through FY 20 and so I was encouraging them to say not just FY 20 But we're going to be looking out several years to say what's important and and be talking back and forth about The tough choices we're making along the way The the charter requires that it look five years out at a minimum and We will at the finance committee discuss with Paul But if other counselors have their thoughts about what should either be present at the hearing and or the forum Please let us know The other date I would like to add here is on May 3rd is when the recommendation from the finance committee will be Sorry, June 3rd is when the recommendation from the finance committee will be coming forward to the town council And we will take public comment that night at town council Are there any other questions or comments? Yes, Alyssa, I have a comment for the finance committee in terms of has they're figuring this out following up on what Kathy said You know how to prepare the focus so people feel like they're making valuable input that they've had a good time coming Spending time with us to explain these things one of the things that's evolved different ways over time Associated with the schools and the four towns meetings that some of you have been to is I've been really heavily Encouraging the schools to make sure those are regional school committee meetings with support from staff And I would really hope that I know the charter says that it's the town council holding the forum But that the finance committee takes ownership of the forum with support from staff rather than looking to it as Something staff does that the town council happens to be present at and I think the finance committee even though that obviously everybody's new Should feel like they have the ability to do that and they should and that I think sends a very clear message to our community that The finance committee is actually doing it as opposed to the finance committee is all sitting there next to the staff Who does it because I've seen it done that way in other settings? And I would really encourage us not to start our first year like that So I look forward to you guys figuring out how to do that because I am not on the finance committee other comments Yes, Evan. I have two questions and my apologies if you said this and I missed it the capital request the 900 thousand The 250 for DPW 250 for fire station and 400 for new school. I'm just a little confused. What what are those? So that's that would be money for feasibility studies for these things and We wouldn't we I think JC Andy makes want to speak to this but the JCPC was saying like well We often times is that type of thing wouldn't be on the capital plan But then the JCPC so how can it not be on the capital plan? They're such big numbers So they want to reflect it someplace and so it is on the capital plan for FY 20 And did you want to try that urgent lie? It's up to you Yeah, I probably will turn it back to you in a second Lynn because from your work on DPW fire station You can explain in a little bit more detail what the significance is of feasibility study in the development of a project but that is the time when We were actually at a point of trying to develop some very specific plans and be able to hire the outside professional help to assist us on beginning the development of the plan that we will Work forward For the completion of whatever building it is that we're talking about I think that what JCPC was discussing is is that We haven't had big feasibility studies like this in this number four a while and That it needed to be more apparent in the budget and that's why we were Making recommendation that it actually be a specific amount But I think the linear better to explain what the role of the feasibility study is Yeah, it's actually there has been a feasibility study done on both This would be for schematic design You cannot do schematic design until you have land and you know where you're going to site a Facility, so should we be so fortunate in this year to be able to find a site for DPW and Therefore also for fire we would be able to move on to schematic design And I was one of the people on the finance committee who pushed this because it is only by doing schematic Design that we will be able to figure out how we can reduce the cost and Contain the cost of these two facilities So that's DPW and that's fire and the 400 for the new school is an approximate number and Should we in December learn that we have been accepted the MSBA process? We will have to come up with a matching amount for the feasibility study for MSBA and that's approximately 400,000 any further questions on this by the way Neither of those are in the budget to spend until as the town manager has says we authorize it And it is only then that we would authorize and we would borrow Yes, my second question is a little bit faster the $200,000 for sidewalk and then there's 20,000 for lights and safety is that 20,000 part of the 200,000 or is that on top of on top of shall we I was wondering where we are with UMass and arrangement for the pilot payments So UMass does not pay us pilot payments, but we're in we have a strategic partnership agreement with them now that expires on June 30th We're in negotiations with them that the council ultimately have to approve So we're not We're still in the discussion stages with them about what would be included and what they're willing to step up to do Could could we seek inspiration from University of Vermont and Burlington because they have an eight million dollar agreement that they're going to give to Burlington and I think the idea is to kind of get a sense of how the town can provide services infrastructure support For the talent at UMass kind of see how we can support them and help them buy into the vision that I'm sure you already know that but it just feels like it needs to be said that That it's in their interest whether it's a faculty they're trying to draw to That comes and looks at the downtown and looks at the schools and or whether it's you know students they Are at need to be as invested in the downtown and infrastructure Thank you Are there other comments or questions at this time? Okay, then for the purposes of the audience and also the council, I'd like to actually go to item 7 F on your agenda where we are going to do a motion to refer this to the finance committee and Rather than come back up to this issue later on I'd like to Refer the proposed FY 20 budget to the finance committee Dorothy I move that we that we refer the FY 20 budget to the finance committee Any further discussion all those in favor Okay, and then I'd also like to refer you to capital I mean to FG Which is the capital inventory and capital improvement program Which is also presented in the budget and the motion there is to refer the capital inventory and capital improvement program to the finance Committee do I hear a motion? Kathy and second Pat Any further discussion on those all those in favor? That is unanimous. Thank you. Oh I'm sorry to go ahead Andy. Yeah, I just wanted to say to all of my fellow counselors Is a matter of process We have a schedule that you're all aware of as far as when each of the sections of the budget will be presented in more detail with appropriate staff present and Those are all as you know being posted also is council meetings the whole should you Have an interest in that section of the budget and choose to come we wanted to make sure that that was covered one of the things that I have done with the finance committee by Email is to say that if there are issues that you think it would are important to bring forward in any of the sessions and You think it would be helpful to have that Information be presented to the appropriate staff in advance The request was is that you do that because I think that would be very helpful But you do it by memo to me that I can then bundle and not get multiple contacts to staff but Work on just one combined. So if you have questions that you say all of I really would like to ask the department had this I think it's actually helpful to the department Director to know that in advance But I'd ask you to do it through Me or Kathy as the vice chair of the committee to feel Either one but so that we can bundle them and get them to the appropriate staff. Thank you Thank you Appreciate it The next item on our agenda is the proposed town council permanent rules This comes from the rules of procedure ad hoc committee. We have a slide on this a set of slides actually and This is the first full discussion of the rules of procedure That is provided by a five-hour ad hoc committee of the town council and We want to recognize that this committee has worked hard to get to this point My understanding is that tonight we will provide our feedback on what the committee has identified as innovative and Rules where the commit committee did not agree and we would like to make sure our feedback is heard Because they will come back yet again at our next meeting with our next revision And we do need to adopt these rules by our June 3rd meeting So for this purpose We can have the slides and councillor Brewer who is the chair of the committee is going to present Thank you, and I'm a very well-turned part of this over to other members including vice chair Kathy Shane I Just want to give everybody the heads up that these slides I'm really thrilled that we're using the screens and everything, but it's not like any of us have rehearsed any of this So, you know, it's it's not like when I got ready for town meeting and I was like I timed it And I knew how it was gonna work and next thing was gonna happen next thing was gonna happen It's like yeah, we're gonna see how this goes So the first thing I'd actually like to do is Since I'm not in control of the slides, and I guess I'm supposed to say next slide Is to go all the way to the bottom meaning the very last slide because I want to just go over that timeline again real quick I really appreciate Lynn bringing that up. So here we are, right? We've been doing this for weeks and weeks and weeks We've been doing it every week the last little while and in order to meet that June 3rd deadline That's why we need your input tonight And then we have a method that we believe is open meeting law compliant where things you don't think of tonight But you think of when you get home you can mail to the clerk of the council It's Nardo it's and then she will strip out names and she will just forward that information to the body So that we don't know who expressed an opinion about what but we'll have that so whether it's you say on page 35 There's X number thing that needs to be fixed or I don't understand something That's something that you'll be able to email after this But understanding that we will need to turn the document back around fairly quickly in order for us to be able to talk about it again on May 17th, and I love the idea that we could just go ahead and vote to adopt on the 17th But there may be more substantive revisions at that point But we have that option with then the vote to adopt on the 3rd and then remembering that this is of course The rules of procedure for the first council that's different than the interim rules which you all have a copy of in your packet as well and We should be very proud of whatever we adopt on June 3rd But it's also not the be all and all of all rules After that if there's a consideration that people say oh, I didn't really understand that I thought this actually works a different way We're gonna send it off to governance organization and legislation so never fear there will be ways to fix things after this But ad hoc rules of procedure will no longer have to be the group of people who are doing it So that will be exciting so moving back up to the top the five members of the committee being myself Shalini Darcy Mandy Joe and Kathy and so as you can move to the right there You can see that we looked at a lot of other people's stuff And they are very different and understanding that of course many communities have a document that they've added to piecemeal over many decades whereas we're inventing ours from scratch from other people's pieces and from out of our own minds Which is something we're very proud of if you looked at our report. We have yellow highlights and we have blue highlights We also have one set of pink highlights the pink highlights aren't listed here But those are the things that are just being added later Like a table of contents the yellow highlights are things we think are particularly innovative We'll hit on those slides tonight. Those are also highlighted in our actual text report as well as in the rules themselves We were very consistent that way and then blue will be decision points So moving I'm just racing through this because I want to give time for people to give feedback And I think it's fair to say that perhaps not everyone's read every single page of the rules yet I certainly hope most of you had had a chance to at least read the report But we want to make sure we get through the basics because I was told we don't have hours to do this So organized into ten main sections, which I'll seem pretty straightforward until you actually start writing all of them The next slide is as I noted the things we're particularly proud of as things that are highlighted in the text as Being innovative in Amherst or you know, not something we saw that every single other community does and For example, we could according to the rules We've proposed amend those rules with the majority vote But go ahead and do it twice not just one time based on a particular evening Moving on to the next slide under council meetings Remember way back when we said let's not talk after 10 o'clock unless it's something. We're just continuing We thought it would be really great to try putting that back in the rules to see how that goes Obviously everything we write in the rules is then subject to suspending the rules And so we have something that comes up that we think we're all really into the conversation And we beg the president to let us keep talking after 1015. She's allowed to let us do that But this is to give us just as she gave us a timing slide earlier tonight Now looking at the second part of that slide. This is where things for example are extra creative We were thinking about the fact that back when we had town meeting and you didn't have to take minutes You just had to say what happened to the warrant how it got how the motions got changed is There was usually a record made available online the next day eventually I mean that didn't happen in the olden days, but as technology improved and staff figured out a way to do it We had votes available the next day. We were thinking Aspirationally that people ask us what did we vote on the night before minutes aren't going to be available immediately So we thought it would be great to say by close of business the day after the meeting This is perhaps the best time to mention that we didn't ask the clerk of the council what she thought of this idea We are going to do that after we get your feedback tonight on all of the rules and But we didn't ahead of time because we were talking about what it was We thought we wanted what we thought the public wanted because a lot of people are hearing in public that they'd like to see Things sooner and that they don't have to be the detailed minutes that we eventually end up producing But rather a simple record of the votes The other part of that is draft minutes Wow four days after the close of the meeting this obviously Exceeds in terms of making you know, it's better than what the state requires in terms of how soon we do minutes It's obviously also in my I will say in my separate opinion completely Unrealistic for those of us on council committees who are taking minutes ourselves to do Not sure how realistic it is for staff to do but again It was something aspirational we have on there And so we'll look forward to your feedback on that as well as hearing from the clerk of the council herself on how realistic that is Next we have the public dialogue rule a public dialogue We're always trying to think of different ways of engaging people We all see the limitations of public comment the charter requires us to have it We want to provide it, but it's really frustrating to not be able to talk back and forth So we wanted to set up a way of having those and of course the town manager would be the one who decided which staff went to Which thing just as now when you have district meetings You don't just just ask 25 staff members to come to your district meeting but the idea was to have more of an interaction and Also work sessions another way to talk about things for possible later action that are based on specific issues And you might invite particular participants to you might say you know It would be so good to hear from such-and-such representative of a university or of a business hub and They could come in and talk to us and it'd be a way of having more of a conversation Open to the public, but we wouldn't actually take votes there We would have to post them of course because theoretically there would be at least a quorum of us there and We wanted to highlight the rule that has already been developed by our president associated with how we're managing Public comment effectively that we're not just saying speak at the beginning talk about whatever you want And then we'll just like all sit through it and get there It's trying to focus that public comment on certain issues at certain points with working items And then also the it's not on the agenda items at the beginning But this gives the additional public comment session specific to the issue We wanted to make sure that was called out rather than just depending on any given president to do that at any given moment We have council response to Public comments this is really pretty impressive given that we didn't actually rehearse this ahead of times. It's like very intuitive So for questions of facts, so if we have public comment that gets Frustrating in terms of say for example, we've had the preview the PBTA discussion before and It when it was just one way that wasn't really helping because it wasn't on the agenda So the president could then say tell manager Did you have something you wanted to say about that or if we had a representative to a body? Oh, did you want to say something about that and also counselors themselves could ask the president? You know rather than at you know We tend to want to look at the people we know and say hey I want to talk to you more about that is to ask through the president Are my hearing you say this is this what you're looking for because then later in the agenda We may as counselors say I'd like that to be a future agenda item But for right now it's just an ability to ask clarifying questions always subject to the president being willing to look at us Say those things depending on how far along we are the agenda. We may need to just move along This one was a little different and we can have a particular member of the group speak to this When we had town meeting you'll recall that the moderator would decide on questions of order and say That's what I've decided and somebody would say well I'm not sure that was the right decision and he'd say well then don't reelect me next time and so That would be one way of approaching this another way would be using something from Robert's rules associated with Appealing a president's decision on a question of order as you as you'll probably Reflect upon we haven't really had any arguments about questions of order yet But there's always planning ahead and the idea that some people felt it was important to have the ability to appeal The president's decision on a question of order We wanted to be explicit Again the yellow highlighting that the council would review its committee organization each year because we may well decide You know, we invented those committees when we were brand new. Maybe there's something we want to do a little differently squish some together Put some others into a different group We also may want work groups which are which reflects back to our numerous conversations of how do we? compose a committee do we include people from the public on a council committee or not and how Complicated does that get and one way of dealing with some of those concerns would be to say a Particular standing or ad hoc council committee. So one of our committees that's appointed by the president here Could say you know, we really need some more people on this that aren't counselors But we don't want to establish a whole new committee all of its own. That's a combination thing like our energy committee So instead we're gonna ask to establish a work group and we're gonna go ahead and establish work group And they report back to the standing or ad hoc council committee So when I say ask you're really just asking yourselves because you're not actually coming back to the council to ask for permission to Do that you might meet with a group once or twice and say we really invited some experts and You know expert meaning a lot of different things not just one kind of qualification and those work groups would still be subject to open Meaning law they would not be private meanings that were held in back rooms smoke filled or otherwise But they are a way of dealing with getting expertise to the table without having to go through an elaborate process of developing a charge And then having members appointed through interviews, etc. So it's a it's a faster way of perhaps developing what we're looking for in terms of getting additional information Highlighted things continued town committees with counselors named in the charter So we just wanted to call out the fact that you know there are all these different piece parts throughout the charter that show what we actually do a point and Although the president appoints all of our actual committee members like to the finance committee outreach ad hoc rules, etc We wanted to make clear here explicit that the council itself would vote who shows up on joint capital planning And who shows up on budget coordinating group that could be a decision point that you decide. No, that's not true That's actually the president's job But there doesn't seem to be any conflict with the law if we did it this way and this seemed to be The way that people thought it should be done and then when we come to that wonderful liaison discussion again that we discussed At previous meet town council meeting that well what happens? We have had situations in the past of course where the president's been great about polling us and finding out What are our priorities amongst different committees? But rather than putting that burden on the president this has come down to what if it turns out six people want to be The one liaison to such and such thing. Well, you know, maybe we could just draw straws Maybe we could just simplify things rather than having to do a whole polling situation So I'm going to take a breath for more Now we're moving into a place where we feel like you actually have to make some choices So that is not to say that you can't disagree with the things that we put in yellow the things we put in yellow You can still say yeah, I don't know. I don't really like that or please add some more words to it So that people understand it better But we did come up with a few places that are highlighted in this lovely blue color That we simply could not say we all agree on this by consensus We had different opinions on this and so again This is characterized at more length with more words in the actual report But looking at it from the slide standpoint there are several there three of these and so this one is In some ways perhaps the least important of those so it's a nice soft entry into this conversation And what I'm going to do is just hit on these briefly and then suggest that we see how much time we have and how the president Wants to manage the questions and then see how far we want to get with choosing options tonight If there are options that become really obvious to people because they've been thinking about this for days Since they got their packet Friday night Or if they want to think about it more before they give more direction to the rules committee This one for example public courtesy in decorum is something you find very standard in rules of Organization whether they're at town meeting or at any town council and This talks about exactly what it says there Not disturbing or impeding the orderly procedure of the meeting and that you the president or Basically say presiding officer may call a recess or adjourn the meeting Everyone in the group of the five of us thought that was sufficient except me. I Wanted something else. I wanted it to say What I felt was reflected at many years of town meeting service Which was that those present shall not engage in audible den of illustrations of approval or disapproval. I Was voted down by a huge margin four to one But I insisted that it be thrown up there so that people could consider whether or not they thought that was important This is described at more length in the report and I don't want to give the report short shrift But since I've moved to this one I will say that I thought that was important because it was some the reason it was Valuable to me to be able to say it this way is so that just as again I'm reflecting back to years of town meeting service the moderator could say we don't do that We don't do hissing remember. It's not always clapping. Sometimes it's hissing. We haven't had hissing here yet Let's think about what that's going to be like so And rather than if there is hissing or even clapping To not push the presiding officer to necessarily take what I would consider the nuclear option Which is calling a recess or adjourning the meeting but to say gently we don't do that here and moving on Other people actually did not mention anything about hissing because they hadn't experienced it But they liked the clapping part and so they wanted to encourage that and so we just need to think about What works for people because we obviously can't say you can clap but you can't hiss so Figuring out how that works and that's what audible discussion is there Now moving on to the next slide because again, we're going to blow through these and then see what we want to go back to This conversation has obviously come up on several issues so far in terms of what the council committees are authorized to do Before other aside from and in addition to what the town council is empowered to do Again, please look at your report for better wording on this because I you know wordsmith that to death and I'm racing through the slide But the basic idea here is that option two is to say whatever the committee charge says Now the committee charges were developed of course several months ago And haven't been revisited to really look at this as closely as we might otherwise So that would be an opportunity to revisit some of the committee charges and say Do we control it via the committee charge? or We have option one which is that committees are purely advisory and they are not authorized to act before council vote that they develop Recommendations to the council and that the vote of the council is required to implement a policy practice or measure So you might feel differently about different committees charges and that's what makes it complicated But it's trying to come up with a rule that everyone will understand What a committee is empowered to do and what has to come back because I think it's not so much what we decide It's that everyone understands what the rule is so we know moving forward who gets to decide what similarly We were looking to be explicit associated with What happens when you have council committees as we do that we are all members of But you want to be part of the work of another committee that you didn't get assigned to because that happens Obviously, there's not enough room for all of us and all the things that we're interested in so one way to write this is to say that Counselors including the president who are not members of council committees are entitled to participate as sitting out As a member of the public and saying yes, I happen to be an at-large counselor, but I'm speaking here as a member of the public They're not at the table. They're not making motions. They're not putting part of the deliberation. They're not voting Another option however and something that reflects again We looked at a lot of different communities and different communities do things very different ways Some have a long tradition of having the president of their body Being a member of every committee some say they're a mesmer of no committee Some say they have voting rights on other committees. Some say they don't and so we wanted to be explicit about what our Expectation was so that we can develop our own Amherst way of doing this That means that the option here So in it then says the president of the council would be an ex officio member of all council committees That they're not appointed to now that doesn't prevent them from being appointed to one another community would do that We are not offering that as an option We're saying if that president is not on a particular committee as an actual member They are an ex officio member of the committee But without the authority to make motions or to vote and then everybody else who's not the president Who's not on the committee is entitled to participate as members of the public So it's just trying to clarify whose role is what I don't think there's a any of us thought there was a wrong way to do this We just wanted it to be clear on what the options were and you can see that we had split votes So having raced through all of those slides and not reading the youth in many pages of text and Also, you are also provided the interim rules, which were not organized in exactly the same way But did fulfill the basic requirement of the charter I suppose at this point I'd like to turn back to the president and say if you want to run the discussion and figure out if there's anything We want to act on tonight. I do. Thank you First of all, thanks to the committee for again for this amazing amount of work If we could take this in the following order go back to the first slide with yellow on it Okay, and I just if there are any comments you don't feel Please don't feel you need to comment on all of these, but are there any comments from the council on this particular issue? Then moving on I'm sorry Evan My question is why Why voted twice I Don't believe there's anything else the council votes on that requires two Separate votes. There's two readings, but there's literally nothing else that requires two votes. I think so why why? Is there anybody on the committee who would like to address that? I mean, you know this actually when I Worked with Lynn on the slide. She asked the same question Yeah, and I think it's something we could go back and look at what we did see many towns do is require a supermajority To change the rules and we didn't we wanted to make it a simple majority, but I think not make it Let's just change them whenever we want to so many Mandy came up with I think it was the twice But it's that is certainly something we could revisit. Yeah May I also mention That many nonprofits require that if you're going to change the bylaws It has to be brought up at one meeting and voted on it the next any further comment on that Moving on to the next slide This is the one on meeting rules and it's the issue of the 10 o'clock and the other issue is The votes taken and also the minutes and let me just say that I've already informed the chair that after tonight's meeting the Committee needs to provide the entire set of rules to the town clerk for her review and also Generate from within the committee any questions? They feel need to go to legal counsel or legal the town attorney And I'm sure that that the town clerk would do the same so this is The neither of these is necessarily those but the town clerk has already stated It's not they're not clear that they can make the first or second bullet under availability Happen although they understand the desire. Yes Steve. Yeah, so minutes aren't minutes until the council approves them So are we literally talking about the draft minutes from? four days earlier, so that's could be completely You know not the correct minutes, so I would have a big Problem with that going on under the website because it becomes fact once it's on the website Okay So if I mean, I'm sorry if I could clarify on that so minutes actually are minutes from the moment they're written down So public records request means that those minutes that were scribbled down Tonight by the minutes taker are the minutes until they're replaced with final minutes and so You're right. They could be incorrect They might not be a full picture, but minutes are in fact minutes And so you you bring up a good point about what level of Action have those minutes had taken but the I believe the desire was to put up draft minutes within four days As opposed to saying we don't show the minutes to anybody until we're really close to them being final Which has been our traditional practice where we wait until we're really sure they're quite right as opposed to saying Draft is good enough because draft is in fact something we have to hand over of a public records request is made Andy I'm sorry. You wanted to ask a follow-up question. Is that MGL? I mean the scribble notes are minutes Yes, thank you Andy Okay, so I have a couple of comments one about each of the major points there one is on the 10 p.m. That's worth our considering But it needs to be considered along with a proposed rule about a suggested order For agenda because I think if we're going to apply that rule then the president needs to have the discretion at the onset of the meeting to decide what absolutely has to be decided that night and be able to Order the agenda so that the items that are absolutely essential will be heard Before 10 p.m. So that was one point the other point that I wanted to get back to is Actually concerned about The draft minutes should be made available by the close of business days four days after the meeting I think that that is very specific and can become very burdensome and affect the business of the town in ways that we can't predict just having I think we've all had experience in producing minutes and We've all known that it what it takes I'll give just one faint example, and that is if we meet the night before a Major election We're really asking the clerk to make the minutes that important that they have to be decided They have to be made available within four days. I think that's something that we ought to be very cautious about Putting that severe restriction in place without some additional language that allows for Flexibility and in a real Substantial manner are there other comments on yes Dorothy. I Understand that sometimes minutes may be required even draft scribbled minutes, but We're dealing with so much paper that I Find it even tonight's meeting where we we were told these are the items and then know this shouldn't be there And there was all this changing back and forth I would prefer to have the finalized minutes within a week Rather than have draft minutes, and then we have to make sure that we know whether it's the draft ones or the real ones But and it would be quite an accomplishment to do that in a week, but I think that the public Understands that if you get the final set of minutes in a week that should be okay Other other comments here, we're not voting on these tonight Evan so so There's two separate things here one is record of votes That's I think what the public is normally interested in And those can be pretty quick and so I think that's fine I don't know about the next day because perhaps there's really important things that need to be done the next day I think asking our clerk of the council who is also our town clerk And who is under a lot of work to produce draft minutes within four business days is an unreasonable request of our town clerk So I would I would prefer to see that bullet point Dropped, but I think that providing a record of votes is much easier and quicker And it's what most people are looking for In the first place and that can be turned around quickly So I like that first bullet point maybe two days after the meeting then one to provide a little bit of flexibility But I think that that second point is is an unreasonable burden on our clerk Are there other comments on this particular area? Moving on to the next I'm actually given the very innovative nature of these and going to suggest that you We we give feedback, but that we kind of contain how long we might talk about these Are there particular comments? I didn't mean to cut off dialogue completely Sarah So just on the though The work sessions, you know, obviously we've had such a you know tight agenda with things We have to get done with deadlines But I will say that the idea of the the work sessions has come up a lot of times since we've been Elected and I'm thrilled about it like if we actually get the time to be able to do that I think it would be really productive Okay, other comments on this Evan I'm going to talk for almost every slide I Like the idea of the work sessions the public dialogue and not completely clear how that differentiates from a District meeting other than it'd be the full council and so it seems a bit duplicative of that Or hearing in which oftentimes there is some interaction My only caution would be at some point I'm going to lose track of the different types of meetings that we have between forums and hearings and the regular Special meetings and now public dialogues and work sessions And I think to some extent if you can accomplish some of these things within the context of an existing structure It might just be simpler for Everyone okay Other other comments about this. I'm sorry shall any we are planning to have a definitions section To define each of these just okay Are there other comments? Okay, moving on This one is the one that we've already put into Practice and Unless there's feedback about it. I Will say that in general I've received positive feedback from the public about our change in our practice anything else on that moving on public participation This opens up an issue of dialogue Comments, I think we'll have to reconsider the 10 p.m. I mean in other words, I think that this could You know either we hold fast to the public comment. It's not a dialogue or we have a public dialogue Yeah, every You know meeting but I right that's my main concern. Thank you listen Follow-up and and I wouldn't say this has nothing to do with dialogue This is not what we talked about what we talked about was And what I specifically thought I said and I will try and say again a different way if a member of the public brings up a Topic that the president thinks the town manager was planning to talk about later that night or so happens The president's already talked to the town manager about and is an ongoing issue And once that to be able to be brought up like there's an issue with XYZ And oh by the way the bridge is going to be done or something like that that they could do that then it could also be that You as a counselor would ask the president. I don't really understand what they're talking about Could I ask them a clarifying question about what that public comments really trying to get at? But it's not you asking them and it's not going back and forth It's going through the president as a moderator there just to make sure we understood what was happening Kathy Steve I think if you I know I realize the draft rules is a long document This is in the context with the sentence that we've been using that we're not going to be interacting We're just going to be taking public comments But it's trying to enable us to not stay dead silent if it's there's a simple I didn't even understand what you just said could you say a bit more or answer it? So a couple several towns put this in while saying we're not going to enter into a discussion here So it's it's just a yeah, okay any other comments on this one moving on to the next Yep, Steve. So Evan and I are gonna Alternate talking about every so this is already a Robert's rules of order. So why have it here? The at the point we adopt these Robert rules of order only becomes a fallback. Am I correct on that? This is a fault I'm gonna let Mandy Jeff speak to this. Yes We have a clause that says here are our rules if we were silent on anything In these clarification would be Robert's rules so we we can modify Robert's rules within our rules But this is a statement of Robert's rules. Go ahead. So this essentially repeats Robert's rules There was some confusion within the rules committee itself whether this was actually allowed So we thought if there was confusion within the rules committee whether you would be able to Appeal a decision of the chair because of in some sense past practice at town meeting where it wasn't allowed That stating it specifically in the rules might be helpful Steve so I'm a fan of not repeating things that are referenced elsewhere. Okay All right moving on. I'm sorry, Alyssa. Sorry. I just want to clarify that so the reality is if we say You can't appeal the president's decision You can't turn to Robert's rules and say oh, but I think you can I mean if our rules say you can't Then you can't if our rules say you if our rules are silent Then you could go to Robert's rules So that's why we put it in there because rather it was it was say no was one option or it was remain silent In which case you would be able to go to Robert's rules or go ahead and just say we're not gonna say no We're saying actually Robert's rules is the thing that we would look at for this one singular circumstance Steve so if we're gonna have Robert's rules be the umbrella I think that we either all need to be familiar with what exactly it says or we need someone one of us A parlin parliamentarian who can answer these but otherwise we shouldn't be Adopting something that we don't think that we will understand. Okay Any other comments on this one? I don't I would like to encourage the counselors to give feedback to the clerk of the council Yes, because I don't understand how to rewrite that to suit both you and some of the other people on the Rules Committee to Make that clear so I Encourage all of you to give feedback to the clerk. Are there any other comments on this one moving on to the next? Okay Committees and council committees and town committees May I bet just point out that on 10 to F? The Charter already requires that The counselors are appointed a year at a time. I believe Okay Yes, Evan. This is more of a clarifying question. I Read organization and interpreted it as every year we go. Do we need GOL? Do we need OCA? It's you're not talking about membership. You're talking about the actual standing committees. We have that's correct Okay, any comments on this moving on? This is where the council Count committees includes annually the council show vote To point council members to the following committees based on interest after initial poll to ascertain preferences I thought I understood this Could somebody yes, so the clarifying point here is that this isn't these aren't president appointments That's what's different. So most of the things that we do as council committees are presidential appointments She's done a poll to find out what we want to do. These are not These are the other multi-member bodies No We're not calling these these are the two committees that are named up on this slide I got we got a legal opinion that in this case the president isn't the appointing authority So we the council are so we've provided a way that the council could Reach that I mean if there were only two people for two slots. It becomes pretty easy, right? Thank you. I Do understand that Yes, Evan George Evan So I have a Question and a comment So it calls out these two, but what's not on the slide But is in the draft rules is then it says the president appoints Participatory budgeting and I was curious why these two are town council, but participatory budgeting was not The the main reason was the participatory budget is a commission and it will go out of Existence so we were creating standing rules so Mandy can speak more to this so the I believe the legal opinion that we received on participatory budgeting was that The president was still the appointing authority there because of the wording specifically in the charter for JCPC and BCG The wording was Representatives of town council and our town attorney interpreted that to mean a town council appointment The wording in the charter for participatory budgeting is shall be a town council member And so she interpreted the town attorney interpreted that wording to not be a town council appointment But to be a presidential appointment and so this this attempt at rule 10.7 or the draft was an attempt to be consistent with the town attorneys Interpretation and and sort of legal opinion that she gave us the other thing that also by the way Made that appointment Different is the actual charge indicated that the person representing the council needed to be from the finance committee So it got juggled around a little bit and that's part of what would should be reviewed every year Any further questions on this one? Yes, so just to give an option because we didn't give options on everything because we just thought this was a good idea Is that you could alternatively say nothing and leave it to be confusing every year as to who does what? Or you could also go ahead and say actually we'll just let the president do this one, too There's nothing forbidding us from letting from saying the president would do it But we can't assume the president will do it unless we address it one way or the other So if you all feel strongly that the president should do JCPC and BCG then that would be the recommendation to us And we'd write that down so it's no longer a point of confusion Okay, this year that we voted on these As a council after I did a poll Okay liaisons any questions there? Yes So I guess my one concern about just drawing straws without having any other Attribute that is considered is that there are a few committees that have a natural link to a standing committee of the council or other committee of the council and It may be particularly beneficial Or in fact, maybe a bad idea we can consider it either way, but it should be considered is to have somebody Who's in who provides that natural link? And I guess I will give it as Example some of the things that are within the community resources committee if you have liaison Assignments to for example the planning board or the transportation advisory committee There could be strong reasons why it should be somebody Who is going to be on the council committee that is pursuing the same? set of issues and That we want to establish That link or we may deliberately not want to establish but to set up a rule that Doesn't allow that discussion concerns me Okay, any other comments on that? Yes, Alyssa, maybe it's not clear because of the slide or maybe it's just not clear in the actual rules But we never intended that it would just be completely random We expected there would be a conversation here at council as to who would trade off for what but When push came to shove if there were too many people we would draw straws So it isn't that we would all just show up and say six of us wanted throw it in the straw There would actually have to be some discussion Which is really time-consuming and annoying for a lot of people But that was the plan is that there would actually be discussion And then if nobody could decide the point of decision would not be the president making the decision It would be a method of drawing straws So what you say is not something we were preventing from happening We just this was the last thing that would happen after that perhaps it needs more clarification Steve yeah, so I would say that or something like that that after discussion Candidates who are still interested And there's a you know something like that right so that we know that there's discussion Also, I think a big part of the president's job is to curate to make sure that no council members are on two any committees or on two few committees, and so if we're so And I don't have a problem with either of these but it will then it's incumbent on the president to sort of figure out an Order of appointments like this if this one's by election then in a way this one needs to be I don't know filled first and then ones that are by appointment by the president can be filled in afterwards Okay, Dorothy To follow what Andy said I do think that Some committee members would naturally want to be liaisons to other town committees Perhaps the committee chair have some role if there are two people on that committee who want to be the liaison Then maybe the chair of that committee Would have some input I will also note that I did not include furthering our discussion on selection of council liaisons tonight Because we would be here till one o'clock So that disperses with one of my comments later on next slide Okay I'm going to suggest that we not do this as an official vote, but maybe a straw vote And are there any particular comments on this one? Yes, Evan Dorothy, I believe that 6.2 is clear enough It says Unless it disturbs or impedes the orderly process. I do not like option two because I think it is unnaturally repressing the public Sarah I totally would agree with Dorothy except for over 10 years on on town meeting where I loved when people applauded and said yay, but then there would be things where there were Votes that were contentious and if a say a motion carried or a vote one there could be a lot of like really inappropriate like Cheering that would make another side feel horrible and I will never forget the first time I was in a room and a decision was made and there was loud Hissing it's a shock to the system. And again, we haven't gotten that yet I don't want to get it. And I think sometimes to avoid the negative things it does help just to say We don't do that and I'm only saying that from personal experience Evan So I think option two is actually closer to what we have in our interim rules now Um, and I think that I strongly prefer option two For all the reasons that Sarah said when we passed the school's SOI it felt really good to be applauded But if you were in the audience and you were opposed to that that probably felt really bad And so most votes have two sides and so it's great to feel applause But there's always people who's who are on the other side of it. And I think that It's it's not repressive of of the public I think it's just being courteous to the fact that there's always two sides to this Is there yes pat I want to channel Jim Pistrain Um, when we had sixth graders presenting at town meeting He refused to have us applaud and I kind of went up to him and I said why later And what he said was this is a serious body And they are being serious and presenting Important ideas to a group of people so that applause or laughter and everything was not Um warranted And I realized when we had the third graders for crocker farm, you know, we were all applaud everybody was applauding And I wondered about that then too because they were presenting A request they wanted something from the council So it it's very two-sided Okay Ready for a straw vote even more comment george Would Rather than a those present shall not could it be the presiding officers shall request That those president not engage would then make any difference The pres I'm sorry you were saying just instead of those present shall not engage You could have simply something a little less Saying something to the effect that the presiding officer the president whatever shall request that those present not engage No difference Okay Okay, shall any I was just going to say that We can have serious discussions and And while we're having the discussion we can be serious But at the same time we can be allowed to celebrate when we all agree on certain things But I also hear that they may be some people who don't always agree And and that's why there is discretion if the if if the president feels that this is going to be discriminatory or I I think it's sort of created that we do a lot of hard work And I think it's okay to sometimes be able to laugh and do Um to cheer and say yeah good job So All right any other comments sarah Could could I just say that is this something that we could revisit again as the council has more experience in it Depending on how the vote goes In order to pass the rules we need to have a rule stated At this point it needs to either be one or the other Okay Kathy I just would make if it were not in here and then we decided we needed it We could always add it back in right, you know, so it wouldn't be that If two months from now or six months from now we said boy, we need this All right, yes Andy just real quick if you were going to boston and When appearing before the house of representatives Would what would you expect as the decorum in the house of representatives and Um We are a body that on a local level is equivalent and um Just under that circumstance I would feel that the cheering and cheering is problematic All right, um, i'm going to straw vote all those in favor of option one That is to leave it as it is The rule is sufficient And option two no I want to be clear option. I don't think people were clear option one is the way it's stated in above in 6.2 point d option two adds The additional statement The those present shall not engage in audible demonstrations or of approval or disapproval Okay, thank you option one there are I'm going to get that one and by rec by record three four five six um And option two Six one two three four five any abstentions Okay, we've advised you um moving on Moving on Thank you Moving on okay This is the issue of what the council will vote on versus committees um, I think the obvious example here is the And I I don't mean to When okoh when I'm sorry Please do I will give two examples um Of of and two that we've seen the first one as lin was trying to figure out would be an okah practice on how the okah committee is going to Use their process to get to the recommendations they make to the council for who to appoint to say planning board Would that practice that they're using to get to that recommendation that they make Be subject to a vote at the council level before they implement the practice The second example is the governance committee that has has a practice of what clarity consistency and action ability means and how They will look at something in front of them and determine and declare whether they are clear consistent and actionable And whether that practice and those definitions that That the gl will use need to come before the council before those definitions can be used While they're looking at those references in both of those options in both of those examples if those Those practices of either okah and or of okah and gl If you want those practices to be voted on always and any other practices by the council You would take option one if you believe those types of practices should be Clear in terms of whether the council needs to see them before they are adopted and put into practice by the committee But believe that those that should be determined per charge instead of a universal overarching Desire Overarching rule you would pick option two Which would mean maybe if you think the okah practice or say the gl practice is so important The council needs to see it before it's put into practice You'd put it in the charge if you think it might not be as important And maybe the council doesn't need to see it you'd put in the charge that they can adopt that practice on their own And so that would be option two Okay other comments Yes, dorthy. I find option two very confusing And open to a lot of interpretation and option one I believe this as can a committee make policy without it coming before the town council And I believe that it should not so I would say I would support option one Because I think that we do need to Have a chance to vote on policy Okay Yes, evan I think you know where I'll fall on this but So I actually think that option one leaves more open to interpretation Because it isn't just policy. It also says practice or measure and those two things Are undefined and so I'm not quite sure What that means but to some extent it subjects Any internal working of a committee to a vote by the council if the council says no, no That's a practice. We have to vote on it and I think that I think that works Against our committees. I think if we wanted to build the council as a sustaining and resilient institution We need a strong committee structure That we allowed to do their work and I think that option one has The problem of one weakening that committee structure by subjecting their internal workings to a vote and two Eats up even more of our time here at the full council because we have to debate All of those practices. I think policy makes sense. I think practice or measure are really concerning to me Sarah and just from a From a practical standpoint I I agree with what evan's saying and I think that I would need just more of a definition Mostly because I think that we need to know what that means because A committee could think that it's it's just going along doing what it needs to be doing But then without like some kind of a defining um More of a definition of what you're Considering as a policy I think you do then get keep getting tripped up and oh wait Do we need to stop like is this a policy or a practice and then we'd continually be asking Steve yeah, I'm in favor of number two because for the reason stated by heaven Other comments on this. Um, the only comment I would make is then I think we should also take a close look at our charges When we wrote the charge for crc when we were looking at it We actually went through wordsmithing a lot to say Referred from the council recommendation back with the council vote went through each of the action And many towns have a much stronger sentence that said committee shall take no action that would bind the council and and so You know really checking a type look and when is something actually binding the council and I would say you know Consistency a format for writing up a charge doesn't bind us. It's just you know going through and saying what goes here and there but some Practices could bind the council. So let's go back and look at what because we wrote charges at different times. Yeah Yeah, I Just want to add I'm sharing feedback We got dashi and I got in our district meeting where unanimously every single person attending that day was in favor of the council making Deciding or wording on policies and and I think Clarifying policies that bind us So that we're not we're allowing committees to function efficiently But also the major policies as a council. We're making those decisions. Okay Other comments Darcy, I I would just um agree with uh, shalini and kathy I've said this before but and we did find numerous towns That followed this policy of making sure that the council committees Are not empowered to To make policy They are required to come back to the council with recommendations for adoption of whatever And these different um policies and practices that we are making right now We're making because the council is just starting We're coming up with procedures that we're going to be using in perpetuity And they're extremely important to the public here in amherst Shalini shalini and I heard that from our constituents loud and clear when they Heard this issue. They were shocked to hear that we were considering um Coming up with a policy that did not go in that direction That their representatives might not have the opportunity to vote on Issues of townwide import So I think we really need to think about this Because this Is very important to the future of amherst Pat Just about everything we do Is important to the town of amherst and I say that with all sincerity Um, I never realized how serious this job was until I started doing it Um, to me, there's a real difference between policies Um, and the process of coming to a decision about what our charge is going to look like Or I heard bandy joe say we as a committee decided what clear actionable and consistent would look like So and we were applying our definitions to that work. I know that oka is trying to create a process And that's not a policy It is not a policy and what I've heard over and over again from that committee is If it doesn't work We will come back and we will change it and I guess where I have some Trust or faith is if it's not working, they're not going to hold on to it It is not policy and I think that we need to clarify that Yes, sarah Just very briefly. I've said this before and I really want to say it again. So Oka does have a practice when we bring you that practice and those names We fully expect that this council can vote yes or no on a practice and yes or no on names Oka never intended that whatever they started to do would be something that would Find the council or would not be Discussed and accepted by the council Okay Yes, sarah. I mean, I'm sorry, alissa I think that to some to some degree this is the place where again sending your comments into the clerk would be really helpful So that we kind of digested another way because again Definitions right we already have definitions at the front of the rules Those aren't on your slides because those are in the rules document But in terms of a policy we don't have a definition of that and in terms of binding policy We don't have a definition of what binding is one person might argue That an oka practice is binding. I would argue as a member of oka It's not binding an oka practice is not binding What is binding is whether or not you vote to as a council to appoint those people to the committee But the practice we use to get to the point of recommending those is not binding So I think you just have to decide Where that is and so that's why I lean toward the putting it in the charge Which totally means revisiting our charges as to how to talk about it specifically associated with each set of tasks So that gel could be looked at one way An appointment process could be looked at another way a finance process could be looked at another way That's why I was trying to address it within the charges rather than trying to make a blanket rule as to what does binding policy mean Do people want to vote on this tonight or would I think it might be best if we forward our thoughts to the committee through the town clerk Okay Moving on to the next one This is the uh one about councils include the issue of ex officio I will point out that there is a part in the charter that somewhat um Is up against option one and that there is a responsibility of the president with regard to Facilitating committees. I don't have the exact words perhaps mandy gel or someone else can find them but it Makes the difference just slightly for a president and it does counselors Evan She's saying it says overseas overseas. Thank you. Thank you So i'm gonna just just to clarify it says the president appoints and shall oversee committees So right we don't have a working definition of what oversee means. So does that mean the president? Ex officio would be permissive in that the president could come in when there's a discussion and sit Right in the same way the rest of us are sitting Oversea implies more make things make sure things are going along So this several towns wrote this in I think to enable that not to be a permanent member of every committee Which allowed a president to come in and out and in many of those towns the president was also on a committee So it wasn't precluding committee membership, but it It defined this but not voting, you know, so they the president could come in Question. Yes, Dorothy I think that option two is better in that practice in terms of we've been working on committees and The president has sat at the meetings, but not as a member But we have often asked the president for clarification, which was allowed us to go forward with their business So I the the restrictions In number two said not to make motions or vote But certainly it has been to at least the committee's. I'm on to our great benefit to have her as a resource there Other comments Steve So this is nothing about the current president of the current members of the council But to me option one is cleaner. So I'm I like the idea of strong committees and I like the ideas of committees being Able to work quasi autonomously And I think if the president is an ex officio, this is a big decision If the president is ex officio member of each committee Council, I'm sorry each council committee That sets a certain tone for the work that the committees are doing So in other words, so that's um I prefer that the committees can act somewhat autonomously the president's more than welcome to attend But any other council can attend, but I prefer number one Other comments man joe So I've tried to refrain from all of this because I'm a member of roles. So I get all my say in that but um I wanted to elaborate on I I was in the I prefer option one category on this one. Um, and I wanted to mention A consideration that everyone should make that potentially option two Gives the president um additional Powers that the rest of the counselors don't have and the charter itself essentially implies that other than Running meetings and having the appointment authority the president Is equal to the rest of us and allowing the president to do more than essentially oversee committees To be able to be as an ex officio member and comment and participate in the discussion and the deliberations Even if they can't make motions and vote Gives that person Now and in the future Some additional Power if you will that other counselors that aren't members of those committees won't have Whereas option one doesn't preclude the overseeing which could be helping a committee run efficiently But not participating in those deliberations during that committee meeting Whereas option two would allow the president to participate in the deliberations Other comments. I just want to do one background. We originally wrote it that we could all be ex officio and no no and And there were a couple towns that allowed members to come and and be part of the discussion And since we're we start out at five if two came were suddenly a quorum and it it became practically Something that would not work Andy This discussion has been very helpful And it makes me realize that I probably don't like either option as worded But I think we're actually close because I think if we actually if we had the committee come back with some rewording of option To so that it says something that Actually tracks the Charter more closely. It's like the president shall oversee committees as Specified in the charter Um and then goes on to the second that we may actually be in a place where It distinguishes that the president does have a somewhat different role, but it ties it very directly back to the charter Dorothy I think that's a good recommendation and I do Agree Mandy joe that participating in deliberation is not what I was referring to So it sounds to me like at this point except for additional feedback We're suggesting that perhaps the committee go back and tweak option two Okay, I'm not saying that Okay Then I my sense is that some people would like people to tweak option two But then come back to the group for the whole decision and not vote on this at this point I'm sorry, we can go ahead and vote but Right now the people that are leaning towards two Are wanting to tweak it Okay, why don't we do a straw straw vote straw vote? Okay all those in favor of one All those in favor of two All those abstaining Thank you Okay We are finished with this discussion. This is open to public and are there any other general comments? Huh We we as committee members didn't really get to see everyone on each of those so could we That vote move too quick. Okay. I'm sorry all those in favor of option one All of those in favor of option two And abstain any other comments Yes, Alyssa Anyone who wanted option two tweaked to talk about what oversee See referencing the charter won't help us at all when the word is just oversee It doesn't say anything other than oversee. So if you have some wording for that, that'd be great Okay I also recommend that these were straw votes not binding votes and we will be back in two weeks with this again We did list this as public comment. Is there anybody in the audience who would like to comment on this item? Okay, saying none. We're going to take a break five minutes And we will be back at Nine no eight 15 845 845 wish for thinking then can we please also encourage people to give us comments on the whole document if they Yes, please provide and read the entire document We're going to reconvene uh the um First of all, I would like each individual counselor to complete their review of the um proposed rules of procedure and have their comments to Margaret By close of business on thursday if you are not able to make that please let her know this thursday she will then provide them in Not identifying you back to The committee on by close of business friday and they meet next tuesday at When does rules meet We meet tomorrow and then we'll meet the following Tuesday And so we can some of the things that have been raised tonight. We can start working on okay. Thank you And and just if you looked at the last slide We had suggested and I think it might be a good idea that that second meeting which will be the last time we meet before We bring it back might be Done as a joint meeting with the council so anyone who actually wanted to come to that meeting Okay, so what we're saying is that the meeting that is on the 14th Yeah, we will post as a committee of the whole Yeah, that's what was suggested on this slide so that if people wanted to come because that'll be the revised draft That you'll see again on may 20th And then it has to be voted on on june 3rd But so athena would you just make note that we would post a committee of the whole on For the rules of procedure meeting on the 14th, and I believe you made it 30 in the morning Okay and I will say that I did sit in with you last week. I found that very useful and I was trying not to tell you what to do Woo Okay, moving on That I will also mention that the town count the clerk of the council will be reviewing these herself To see if there's anything that flies in the face of Good procedure and also any questions that the committee has Need to be developed and provided to the clerk of the council So that they can be advanced to the town attorney or decided by her. Okay Okay, we're moving on to short term rental local option. Mr. Bachman Thank you. So in your packet is a memo Concerning short term rental law the community impact fee Uh just to summarize it in December of last year the governor signed into law a new law that applied the Hotel motel room tax to short term rentals and when we say short term rentals most people know that as air bnb vrbo things like that uh in in that That addition that tax applies to all To the air bnb or short term rentals and is to any town that has adopted that tax and the town of amherst had already adopted that tax in addition The town Communities may charge an additional three percent community impact fee And that is what is before you for consideration tonight not to vote But to refer to the appropriate committee for you for them to discuss it in more detail Um Part of my goal has been to expand Sources of revenue for the town This would do that We have we don't know exactly how much this would project would add to the town's revenue We don't anticipate it being a large number though because it applies to a subset of all the air bnb taxes Rentals so I didn't want to get into a lot of detail about it tonight other than to say to Present it to you and have you refer it and have it be on an agenda for a committee that will then have a more detailed conversation about it Are there questions from the council? Yes So as you mentioned, this would apply to a very narrow subset I know you don't know How how many there are Do you have any like there could theoretically be none Do you have any inclination generally? um I think it's uh Probably in five digits, but not guaranteed Meaning over ten thousand dollars, but not significantly above that um pat According to this 35 of the impact fees would go for affordable housing Is there any way of using since we're talking about about ten thousand dollars? Maybe That all of that money all of the three percent impact could go to housing and the housing trust So that would be that would be a decision for the council For 35 percent goes to affordable housing or public infrastructure. So it's one or the other Um, anyway, so that would be a decision for the council to review Dorothy, did you have a question? No, I got the answer Okay I have one comment that kind of accompanies this And I leave it to the town manager to make a recommendation as to how we proceed, but It has been brought to my attention by one of my constituents that Some of the rules that perhaps apply to short-term rentals Don't seem to apply to air bnbs and vrbo's and this past week or two We've had one very serious violation in amherst where 200 people showed up at somebody's air bnb At four o'clock in the morning now the police did handle it But I want to make sure that along with this we also look at You know what kinds of ways and regulations are we putting on these short-term rentals? Yes, so in response to that So There are rules in the town for party registration If you plan on having a party the town has a process in place that you can register your party And if there's a complaint that the police send a courtesy message to the host of the party to allow them to clear out If you don't register, then they come in and sort of shut it down quickly That's been very popular with a lot of students. I don't know this particular circumstance that you're referring to And whether it's a short-term rental or a regular rental or a Homeowner the same rules would apply It was an air bnb rental Okay, thank you. Any other comments? Yes I had a quick question following up on what pat said So I know that the frequently asked questions thing that's attached here says the balance will be general fund revenue But I believe you indicated that we could choose to call it something else Now we are very loathe to do that as a community generally speaking To say we know we adopted a thing and we're going to spend it on x We we see mayors and neighboring communities who get a lot of press for saying that is how they're going to spend their money But that you know from an accounting standpoint, you don't really do it that way but we could I just wanted to clarify that although that statement says that and although you Stated that in your memo as a recommendation that that's not in fact a hard and fast Ruled in that it does count as general fund revenue, but we as a council could say yes We know it's general fund revenue, but we want you to consider That rough amount that we are predicting to be dedicated toward this other thing even though we can't technically account for it Is that something we can do as a council to give that guidance? to do that even though you're not allowed under You know dor to to do it that way Okay, so we can give that guidance great and then the other question I just had was about timing to make sure we don't miss out on If we decide to do it that we don't miss any opportunity on the money And at this point the deadline for this year is may 31st The deadline for the tax to go to the community impact fee to go into effect on july 1 is may 31st The following deadline. I think it's august 31st for the october 1st Quarter so you can do it quarterly. Okay. Thank you. Obviously. We'd want to do it as soon as we can Thank you Are there any other comments from the council This is something we've listed for public comment. Is there a public comment? I understand that some people may see this as simple extension of Existing revenues that come as a consequence of having hotels motels, whatever in the town But actually it's a unique source of revenue because the short-term rentals Have a different role in communities The evidence is that short-term rentals drive up The cost of housing And make housing less available in a community Thus While obviously for the individual Homeowner, they may be helpful Create a source of income For the town as a whole It has a different impact And since it has a different impact One thing to consider Is whether to take The part of the fee that comes to the town And use it to address that problem And one way of doing so As has been discussed is to Dedicate the funds to the housing trust So that we can make the money available For developing additional affordable housing So when things are referred to committee, I would ask that you consider that Again, as I said, there is evidence in fact that As you increase the number of short-term rentals in a community The rental rates go up The cost of Purchasing homes goes up And so this is an important thing for us to consider Thank you Thank you for your comment, John. Would you make sure you register in the thing there? Thank you Are there any other public comments on this? Okay There's a motion In this case to refer the short-term rental local option To the finance committee and the community resource committee. Do I hear a motion? Pat? Thank you second Sarah, thank you. Any further conversation? All those in favor Okay, it's unanimous to refer Lynn Yes, I just I have a question but I can ask it in finance if One of the buildings downtown that's the multiple apartment buildings Started during the summer doing air bmbs because they didn't have tenants do they get reclassified, you know What I don't understand quite is how do you know when it's an air bmb? I can see it when it's Single so it's something I can raise in finance, but it actually came up with one of the buildings. That's not been built yet That that On on weather During the summer months it would start be, you know being 30 days to weeks kinds of rentals Paul So I'm not super familiar with that But I think there's some thresholds of the law about how many weeks you can rent before the law starts to apply to you and then also It's it's up to the Property owner to file the taxes So we don't go collect the money this department of revenue collects the money, but it's it's more of a self reporting type thing It's 14 days Before you have to declare taxes Are there any other questions or comments? All right moving on We are now moving on to the action items We didn't vote on that excuse me We did we voted. Yeah, thank you Okay action items. The next one is the town council's policy regarding control and regulation of the public way and We have slides on this that we looked at last week And We also put this aside as public comment So mandi joe, this is from gol Is there anything further from gol since last week? There is not we Didn't hear many comments from last week and we discussed that at our gol meeting last week and decided not to Do anything with that lack of comments really and so the proposal is the same as it was last week Okay, any further comments from the council Is there any public comment on this issue? All right, then the motion is to approve the policy regarding control And regulation of the public ways as recommended by governance organization legislation committee on april 22nd 2019 Do I hear a motion? I so moved dorothy second raven evan ross Any further comments? Yes, elissa. I have a question in terms of process that I think joe I think mandi joe is probably going to guess what i'm going to say Which is that wow, this is a town council policy Awesome, where's it going to go and how are we going to know it exists? And so that's that's not just a rhetorical question It's not a question we can perhaps answer tonight But it's something that rules was thinking about and how are we even going to keep track of the fact That we even have a policy so that's something for Council to figure out Maybe would it be appropriate to ask that gel tell us that in future as we develop policies? Where do they live? How do we know they exist? How does the public know they exist etc? Would you like to comment on that mandio? So We could put it on a website It could go on the gel one, but I think it would more appropriately go on the sidebar of the town council one And and as gel chair, I can certainly ask the The town manager to do that and he can assign it to the appropriate person to do it But um, the gel has been putting its own policies on the gel website So so the the web administrators have been very forthcoming in putting up things that Have been requested to be put up. So that's what I would say I'd personally recommend at this time is that if we adopted it go on the town council website Um, there's a sidebar that it can easily go on and be referenced to and then I know rules was going to come up with a Report at some point that would indicate a whole bunch of things that maybe gel could discuss and this was going to be on that report so It can certainly go on something gel will look into later It seems to me it would also go up where people look to apply for public way permits the The actual Recommendations are fairly clear as to who deals with what and there is a requirement that the town manager Provide reports for all of his actions on a summary basis Any further questions on this? Motion has been made in seconded All those in favor That's unanimous. Thank you The next one is the speed limit As a request to adopt mass general law chapter 90 sections 17c and 18b This is something that has been brought before the council at least twice Once in our own discussions and once by a public comment And so what we've done is provided the various sections of the law in your packet And with the idea that this would be referred to crc and the transportation advisory committee Are there comments? Yes, mandi joe Someone explain the rationale for it going to finance I didn't say finance did I Never mind then I heard finance instead of tack. Thanks Any further comments? Okay, then the motion is To refer the request to adopt mass general law Chapter 90 section 17c and 18b to the crc and the tack George is made the motion. Do I have a second? Mandy joe seconded any Any all those any further comments? We also put this on the thing for public comment. Is there any public comment? Okay, seeing none all those in any further convert comment from the call from the council Okay, all those in favor george now's the time Okay, that's unanimous All right The next item I'll get to it There are three committees who have now Discussed and voted on the issue of who should which committee should begin the process of identifying and nominating members to fill the three resident finance committee slots on the finance committee So I'm going to ask each of those committees to report out And because there's been no Incenses We will have a discussion and bring it to the council for a vote So rules of procedure elissa I can't say pass can I So rules had this discussion two members of rules are also members of outreach communications and appointments And we had this conversation before where I pointed out that it was an awkward place to be in Because I had different opinions depending on the situation So rules voted to Allow for finance committee to do this themselves is what it came down to if I'm remembering the rules come and this was weeks ago it was four four in one of state Okay Okay finance committee andy To the report. Yeah. Yeah when we Considered this we were five to zero to have finance Both prepared the interview Questions and then either had the chair or the Person designated by the chair do the interviews and then come up with a recommendation. So our vote was five to zero Okay And then okah sarah So We we was kind of straightforward for us We voted unanimously that we we would keep this responsibility And just for it most of it was consistency so that in the rest of our process You'll see that we take the stance that a committee member should not be Picking a committee chair should not be picking its own member so that's mostly the reason Why we felt that way and anybody else can jump in if you think that I'm getting that wrong or you would like to add something Okay Further conversation Man did you I'll just point out There's all those options. And then there's also the option that the town the council president Be the appointing authority as would be the case if we didn't adopt any other rules Shallow me I think this was already mentioned in one of our discussions that I just wanted to reiterate one of the reasons why we think finance committee Person should be appointing because like other Planning board and so forth they can have their person in the Appointment whereas in finance committee. We cannot have another counselor From finance committee be part of the appointment process. Okay Any further question any further comments at this time? Alyssa two pieces associated with that one is although that is certainly true that that was the way we initially Engaged in planning board and zba. In fact neither one of them has been able to participate in the Interviews because they are up for Reappointment and so they are not in fact engaged in the interview process And so it's not different than planning board and zba although we asked them for their opinion on questions Much like finance committee is asking itself for its opinion on questions And the other aspect that I want to Follow up on that mani jome pointed out is that the council president doesn't appoint any other members of the public to anything So while yes, that's an option. It would be very different than anything else It's not impossible, but it's just There are no other situations under which the council president appoints members of the public So that would be one way out of it. It would just then be one way of figuring out There would have to be a further process developed to figure out How the president would find out who those applicants were Mani jome In fact, the council president does appoint appoint members of the public currently to the bylaw review committee And if the council would establish any council committee that has members of the public on it other than finance The council president would be the appointing authority under the charter Are there other comments? dorsi I find that it's very difficult the fact that We have committees competing against each other That's what it feels like That the that the finance committee, I guess came up with this idea that they Could do this particular appointment when it's You know the natural job of the oka committee. I feel like oka is Definitely, you know capable of doing All the appointment work that we have and that we should have faith that it can do a good job I have faith that it can and that We you know our process is that we are going to get advice from the different From you know, we got advice from the planning board from the zba about What should our criteria be and what should our process be and That is exactly what we would do with the finance committee and You know that jim pistrang was the person who did the interviewing for the finance committee in the past And He did a fine job coming up You know, he doesn't necessarily have expertise in finance and he came up with the committee So I don't think it's necessary To have the finance committee be involved in this appointment process Because oka can do a Good job on its own other further comments ever so it still strikes me as odd to have any committee pick its own members And the the rationale I keep hearing is Finance committee is different And finance committee requires a level of expertise that apparently only members of the finance committee can assess And it's not necessarily an argument that I've been persuaded by We have worked on oka to figure out planning board in zba, which will be coming to you in our next meeting We are currently in the process of Making recommendations and interviewing for rank choice voting commission For participatory budgeting commission, which is closely tied to the finance committee And it seems to me that the most logical and simplest solution to the question of who appoints Resident members to finance would be with the committee that is appointing Resident members to the other committees And so it seems weird that we would extract that role from oka For the reason simply being finance is different Dorothy, I mean Kathy I'll answer to anything but Everything about this finance committee Is different including we're appointing people that don't have a vote Which is a very odd structure And the hope Is that it would be a compatible group that's enhancing and enriching the group we currently have We could as a council decide We don't it says may have non-resident You know, this is kind of an experiment where we get people who will come to this intense a set of meetings and Be a we want to be full participants and hit the ground running So that was one of the reasons we were looking at From prior experience that I've had sort of in non the nonprofit world or foundations sending For example, we never sent a human resource director in to do interviews for these kinds of positions because we wanted someone who Would just do follow-up questions around this to make sure we got a working body So it was it was this thinking of that it's got to be a really compatible group because it already is a very odd Structure that's been set up George you had comment My only comment on this is that there is no other committee of the council And I I want to stress the words council That has resident members. So it's not like It's not like CRC or anybody else who has resident members And so it seemed natural That if they have resident members at least the committee that is going to have those resident members of the council follow the ocho process and appoint those members Uh, excuse me and bring the appoint bring the recommendation of the appointing those members to the council no committee appoints members Andy And just following up on a couple of things that were said without going back and repeating any of them is a matter of time I think that We did recognize that This is an option To have this process at all of non Voting resident members the Finance committee discussion was very much along the lines of Let's try and make this work. How can we make this work best? and When we had the discussion it was within the context of Making sure that there was a selection procedure that would um make that would enable us to Increase the opportunity to the greatest extent possible that the composition of People who are appointed Would really make this experiment be the grand success that we want it to be It is a very peculiar arrangement that was created by the charter But i'm intrigued by it and I think that that's Probably where the committee was that we we were intrigued by it and we want to make it happen we want to make it work and That was the basis of our recommendation um, sarah So I I just Again, I do this consistency thing Is that when outreach communications and appointments is doing its comprehensive report back to A body that they're referring names to one of the things that will be shown is The health of the entire um Committee so how that's balanced. So I just want to say that that is something that um It's something that oka actually looks at is how how was the healthy body sort of working together In other words, you will balance your fellow counselors In your appointments with the non with the resident appointments Good luck. Yeah I don't think that it was intended But when I hear oh, we want a compatible group I worry that there's going to be a limit of ideas um That is going to what? We'll make people compatible. I think That i'm concerned about that I'm also concerned That finance Still feels itself is different the residents who are going to be on that committee may not have a vote But if you're working well with them, they're going to be collaborating with you and influence the decisions you make That's critical to acknowledge that every resident that we ask On ad hoc or a subcommittee Now we're talking about that all over the board in rules and procedures the possibility of residents that makes us the same And those residents won't necessarily have votes Maybe they will it will be the committees that are set and I really think that Finance has overstepped Are there any further comments? Mandija So I came in thinking I'd go one way and now I don't know which way I'm gonna go um I keep thinking what's What is the council's goal for these appointments and which committee? Would be best situated to meet that goal and i'm not even sure what our goal is to be able to make a decision As to which committee would be best situated Is the goal, you know and and maybe it hasn't been articulated what what residents What you know not types of residents, but is the goal to have residents that are Already financially savvy that already, you know participate in a lot of stuff Is one goal could be to start bringing people into a council body as potentially Council candidates later on You know, there's a lot of different things We as a council could seek in these appointments and I'm not sure I can Make a decision as to who's the better recommending authority Since the whole council is the one that's appointing it without knowing what the goal of Having the residents on the committee is I know as a charter commissioner We had when we put this provision into the charter a certain idea of why we wanted residents Potentially on it and wanted to call it out, but now that i'm on the council I'm not sure that's the right Goal anymore and if the goal might be to sort of bring people into the council's operations Not necessarily for financial expertise that might need to Be supplemented by whatever the councillors don't have but for a way to introduce them to the council work And to create maybe a pool of talent to maybe run for office later Maybe oka is the better recommending authority than The finance committee if the goal is to figure out in true form What the finance committee really needs and what talent they're missing Whatever that talent however you describe it is maybe Someone from finance doing that interview Is the right thing and so i'm not sure where I stand right now because I don't know What we as a council want to see in these appointments? What did you as a charter commission envision? We envisioned the possibility to need financial expertise because there might not be a single person on the council That has that expertise, but that's not necessarily what This council or any future council might actually need I know from my own Uh experience on the finance committee and other finance committees that I've been on Over the years, uh, I always look for other finance committee members that bring expertise That the present committee does not have Investment expertise, actuarial expertise any number of things that Among the five of us we don't have I'm not looking necessarily to groom anybody for future council Positions any more than anybody else is on any other committee so George and it seems that that oka is perfectly capable of taking these into consideration as we do for zoning and planning we Talk to the relevant chairs and we get a clear sense of what they're looking for and that's one of the criteria we use And so again, I don't see why Oka can't continue to be the recommending body and let me repeat again and again again that we only recommend You are the ones who appoint Further conversation Shalini by the time you wreck By the time you recommend Is it then open to everybody because of the open meeting whatever requirements and then it makes it awkward for the people who've been Recommended to say no, actually we don't want them Or no, am I did I get that wrong? When you make the recommendations Then at that point does does it become open that these are the people who are being recommended? And then it becomes really awkward for us because now you're the whole reason we have this whole setup is to Preserve the privacy of people and have a wider pool, you know Have people feel comfortable with the process and this makes it even more awkward The point at which The it is known who is Being recommended is the point at which Oka Forwards a memo to the council There is another point at which Oka Before in their process and that is the point at which the person doing the interviewing Recommends to the other members of Oka and they have to do that in a memo form Who they are nominating and Oka is just about finished getting ready to finish up with that on planning and And zoning can as my my initial understanding was that Finance was going to essentially adopt the process that Oka is using except replacing So that's the situation you just described would happen Regardless, it's just Would it happen in this committee or this committee, but there'd be no differentiation if the process is the same, right? Are there further conversation about this? all right, so if if it's It can stay there's two options Okay, one is option is there's no change it remains with Oka The second option is to amend the Oka's charge to exempt appointments for non-voting members of the finance committee Who would like to place a motion? Which one? to amend to amend the Oka charge To exempt appointees of non-voting members of the finance committee Is there a second? Kathy Any further conversation? All right all those in favor of the motion The finance committee Using the Oka process to come forward to the council with the recommendations For the three people to select be selected for Resident members of the finance committee and the council will then confirm They'll use the Oka process Oka is not involved, but they'll use the Oka process Yes Alyssa so again just clarifying so that means that The names of the people that whoever does the process whether it's Oka doing the process or the finance committee doing the process Will be made public at a meeting of either of those bodies and then Again when it comes to the full council. So as was stated before it's just parallel. It's just a different body that does it Any further questions Okay, again the motion that's on the floor is To amend the Oka's charge to exempt appointments of non-voting members of finance committee All those in favor Okay, all those opposed And abstain Okay, did you Okay, all those in favor All those in favor Kathy all those We need to All those in favor Four Okay, all right Um, moving on We're moving on to the calendar and we have a slide for this So we've been asked to look once again at the issue of the fact that on november 4th We have a council meeting And the day that is the night before an election on tuesday november 5th And in the process of looking at this i chose to enlarge the calendar The circles represent the dates we presently have meetings on I would note that because this came up in the past october 8th is yom kippur and I also did not even want to deal with the issue of whether or not we were going to cancel a summer meeting or So so right now we have meetings on october 7th october 21st November 4th and november 18th And the two the two numbers that are on mondays and red The one in october is vet is uh columbus day Indigenous peoples day, excuse me and the one on the 11th is veterans day And so the Question facing the council is do we change this count calendar? Right now. This is the way the calendar stands Is their discussion Alyssa so i'm putting in my plug again for the fact that we have not traditionally for the last several years Met when it's an elected that's either the town meeting or the select board has not met on the night before an election Now those were more typically spring elections, although it did affect fall town meeting is when is we would also take it into account It is also absolutely a fact that the october and november calendars are really complicated Because of thanksgiving because of the holidays because of jewish holidays showing up in there as well And then when the 11th is on a monday, then that just throws it all out a whack And so everyone likes to know that town council meetings previously select board meetings previously town meetings are on mondays That's just a thing that everybody knows so changing that as a problem On the other hand if we start saying that it's typical that we're going to meet the first week in november On that monday night, that's always going to be before an election Whether it's a state and federal election or whether it's a local election because now all our elections are in the fall We don't have that spring situation anymore And even when we're not running there are other bodies that are potentially going to be so for example this year We're not running but other elected bodies in town are running And we just have found that people are typically working on campaigns and they find that an inconvenient night to meet It's also awkward So it's awkward from that standpoint, but your alternatives are really limited when the 11th is also a holiday And then you've got thanksgiving in there. So that means you either have to pick like a back-to-back date like october 28th So that you have two meetings in a row And then have a gap until the 18th or you have to pick a different day of the week I'm not saying any of these solutions are good But I'm also saying I would not like to establish a precedent that we meet the night before an election comment Dorothy I don't think that we should meet the night before an election I think the town has things to do on that day And I think that we're an elected body, which means that we are interested in participating in government I just don't think that we should meet the night before an election Are there other comments in Andy Joe? So I I'm going to take potentially a minority view. I don't See a hardship with meeting the night before an election Election campaigns go on for more than the night before an election And I know it's a popular night for doing stuff because the election day is the next day, but I think we as a town council need to Think about our own business and how we can most efficiently and effectively get our business done and especially looking at this calendar We all have experienced meeting two council meetings week in a row And that is a hardship not only on us to get stuff done But also on our own staff to be able to get the agendas and the packets and everything ready So the 28th is not a very good Option Because it would be two weeks in a row that would put a lot of pressure before an election on the clerk of the council I would like to know before we go forward with the fourth What I haven't heard is the one concern I would have is our clerk of the council happens to be the town clerk Does the town clerk need to be doing election prep? Then for that the night before the election such that an actual meeting would be harmful to Getting that done because that would change my consideration because I think that's more important than Inconveniencing us in participating for four hours In some phone banking and stuff We don't have the town clerk Here, but we do have mr. Bachman and we have someone else So I think It's true that usually the election day is a very Arduous day for the clerk's office everyone in the clerk's office. It starts early in the morning You know 6 a.m. Or earlier than that the day before they're doing a lot of preparation to get material to all the voting locations Okay Yeah, I would agree and it's not just that prep they have to do but also we tend to meet very late And I would feel terrible about keeping the clerk here Until potentially 11 12 o'clock as it happens for them to have to do the election the next day I also think that it impacts maybe Public aspect too a lot of the public might be involved in things and it would be I I wouldn't want to Schedule anything important on that night because the public might be involved elsewhere But I'm also hesitant to ever schedule a meeting where we say we are not allowed to discuss anything important at this future meeting so But I also recognize this calendar is Kathy um, I I have a question as I look at the These weeks all lined up The first question would be do we have a sense of the flow of work? Would it be possible to have just one meeting in november on the 18th? So rather than doing two in a row and just being really What? So that that would be my you know looking at what things are likely to come up in september and october and Load up on the 18th So that that's one question and then I know we're like regularly on mondays But this is always going to be a problem not just this year But in future years this first monday, you know, except in the rare occasions that the first Monday is the first or you know or something so Would a variation that we were meeting on the 6th on a wednesday or a thursday because of that Throw everything off. So I had those two, you know, what are our options? I mean elissa talked about running two meetings in a row in october So we'd have three in october So I had the could we meet just once in november or could we Make an exception and have an alternative night because november is just different All right. So one option is to yes, shallony I'm not in favor of changing the day just because we have our other Work scheduled ahead of time. So I don't want to change it to a wednesday see It gets really ugly to change the day of the week because all the other Boards and committees they often work around our schedule. That seemed like the the least good of right George well, there's a danger if we don't meet every other monday We you know, people might realize that we're not absolutely necessary to the Existence of good governance and survival of the town So we could try and experiment in that one month and just only meet Once and see what what happens maybe Pardon my french, but maybe all hell will break loose, but I think things will probably be okay. So Right Is there any other comment pat I can't follow that really well, but um, I like the idea of meeting only on the 18th and november But I would encourage us to meet on the 21st and 28th of october So we would meet on the 7th the 21st the 28th No, that's the 7th is fine. Yom Kippur does not start until the next day So the question was whether we met three times in october So your suggestion would be Just the 18th not the 4th Yes, my suggestion is that we plan to meet just on the 18th of november But we reserve the option of meeting an additional meeting on the 28th if Pressing business requires it 28th of october. Yes All right, so let me try this In the interest of moving on the first one is to mend the town council Uh 2019 regular meeting calendar adopted december 10th 2018 town council meeting to remove the november 4th meeting date Do I hear a motion? I'll move that Mandy joe made the motion second George seconded all those in favor That's unanimous And then the second motion is to amend the town council 2019 regular meeting calendar Adopted at the december 10th 2018 town council meeting to add a tentative meeting date of october 28th 2019 Is there a motion if needed? Okay, andy made the motion second george Any further discussion? All those in favor All right moving on The next two items on our budget on our budget next two items actually pertain to our budget When we did the regional school assessment agreement, we actually needed to Amend how we did our motions and so these essentially are substitute motions, okay The first one is to amend the 2020 the april 22nd 2019 town council vote on motion number two under item 7b regional assessment formula By adding the italicized language So that the motion reads That the town vote to amend section Six of the emmerced pelham regional school district agreement by adding subsection j As follows for fiscal year 2020 only the alternative operating budget assessment shall be calculated As 30 of a five-year average Of minimum contributions with the remainder Of the assessment allocated to the member towns in accordance with the per people method Found in section 6e of the emmerced pelham regional school district agreement The five-year average of minimum contribution will include the five most recent years Is there a motion? Second Dorothy Any further conversation discussion? All those in favor Yeah so This was provided for us. I know that I'm we're technically amen every year we amend the regional agreement assessment method We actually technically amend the regional agreement Mr. Steinberg like the answer so that they rewrite it the short answer is yes um, and that is it's just the technicality of what we're doing because the The Agreement has five-year rolling average Of enrollment as the method And so each year that we're doing anything other than that method Or just Going with the statutory method We are in fact amending the agreement for that year So this is consistent with What the requirement is Okay Is there any further question or comment? Thank you for that clarifying question and that explanation Okay, all those in favor Andy can you vote since you went to go for the first one? Yes, okay. All right. It's unanimous. Thank you And then to the second motion is to refer the regional school assessment formula to the finance committee Is there a motion? I'm trying to figure out why we're doing this Okay, I'm following the motion sheet. It was in anticipation of potentialities in other mediums happening In fact, there was a good turnout on all right strike that motion moving on We already did the Section e2 was the same for the same just cautious Matter we're going to the fiscal year audit and pat. This is you I recommend to the council that you accept the Audit as presented by our auditors auditors melons and heath. They made two recommendations to us They wanted us to increase or decrease the amount of time it took to get minutes posted And they also had Two points that in 2020 and 2021 there are going to be some changes and that the Finance committee the finance groups Sonia and everyone should be looking at those Now and preparing for them even though they're in 2020 and 2021 So and the town agreed to that the auditor also said that financially Amherst is doing well It's been it's been conservatively run in a certain way and that's been beneficial so I'm Asking the council to the motion is The motion is to accept the findings To accept the findings of the Fy 18 audit as recommended by the audit committee. Yes, thank you The motion has been made. Is there a second? I will I will say yeah any further conversations or questions Kathy I just have a question um on the timeliness of the minutes they weren't we they weren't Say if this is true were they we reviewing our own practice or the practice Of the time before the previous practice. Okay, thanks Okay, are there other questions All those in favor Opposed Okay, we're done with that We're moving on to appointments and the first one is the ecac appointments And oca Now I kind of feel like you've seen one oca process you've seen them all but I'm going to give you so we have slides Yes, we do So as we promised we're going we're giving you a narrative of our process to recommend Appointees to multi member bodies appointed by the town manager. I think we can there we go I'm going to read this stuff to you and you're going then you're going to look at the decision tree And then you can ask any questions you would like to be answered by anyone from oca So application and interviews so the way it starts out is that applicants They are looking around on the website and they submit a completed community activity form The town manager selects desired candidates and refers to the town council and simultaneously files with the town clerk The name of each recommended appointee the town manager desires to appoint as a member of a multi member body Oca requests that the town manager also sent oca a brief narrative of why they selected the recommended appointee And a description of the selection process What recognizes this is at the discretion of the town manager Next slide Okay, so at a post to public meeting oca reviews the recommended appointees Oca discusses and votes on the recommended appointees at this point Oca may recommend that the town council approve a recommended appointee Recommend the town council reject a recommended appointee sending the recommendation back to the town manager Recommend the town council take no action on a recommended appointee Allowing appointment to be effective after 30 days of the filing with the town clerk Additionally, you could request more information from the town manager to answer questions or concerns about the recommended appointee of the applicant pool Next slide so oca then Sends a report to the town council with their recommendations on the recommended appointees the town council reviews Discusses and votes on the recommended appointees at this point in the process the town council may Approve the recommended appointee reject a recommended appointee sending the recommendation back to the town manager Or refer the recommended appointee back to oca for further deliberation And this is an absolutely gorgeous decision tree done by evan It's really hard to read but you do have it in your packet, right? It's in the packet And it should basically just kind of visually Show you exactly what I just said narratively, but oca's open to any Questions about this process And Yeah, so Sure, so you got and you know back in the old days you'd have lots of pieces of paper and instead you have lots of separate electronic documents, right? And so there are the slides that we just went over which are Based on the report that we wrote which is the thing you see on letterhead And then also the two pages of narrative that ends with that So you have separate documents in the packet tonight But I wanted to make sure we drew your attention to the fact because we've talked before about making sure we report out on Votes which was on the letterhead document. That's our committee report It says that we voted four to one with one member against to adopt the decision tree and narrative that's In your package and because the vote against would prefer public disclosure of all candidate names and public interviews Or at least disclosure of all candidate names because again, we're talking about tan manager appointments to oca And then that being a separate issue from these actual names that were given to us by the town manager Which you all saw which was on the memo of april 22nd, which is again in your packet as well And those names oca voted five to zero to bring forward So The two items before us one is the oca process and the other one is actually the vote to confirm the town manager's appointees to The energy and climate action committee appointments Mandy joe I have a question about I guess You could put up the second slide is what it was on I believe um The recognition Nishin in the the slide says that oca recognizes that the provision of A brief narrative is that the discretion of the town manager um seems Odd to me Um because our charter allows us To ask for any specific information on any matter within our jurisdiction that we want So I don't quite understand why we would Kind of give that up and say well, we kind of want it But it's really his discretion to give to us when it's not if we actually Want it and it's within our jurisdiction. So could you talk about why It says it's his discretion Sarah So with the town manager appointments The town manager actually does because He's executive. He does actually have The right to and in his initial report Give us the information that he feels Is enough for us to make a decision So You everybody has seen the the memo that was submitted um and Yes, we could absolutely ask for Different things we didn't because I don't believe that we can actually like go right ahead and simply tell the town manager What we'd like to see in his report Alyssa just following up on that our interpretation We weren't on the charter commission But our interpretation of that provision Was such that it didn't apply to this because the charter says the town manager makes the appointments and we confirm So we can ask all day long But we didn't feel like it was the kind of thing that we were able to compel based on the way the charter Was written whereas we might be able to compel on a finance issue that we're looking for more information about This felt like it was very tight in the charter in terms of the town manager gets to do this and All we really are faced with is the decision of is it enough that we feel like We can recommend to the town council that they do something and we could ask all day long for additional information But it didn't feel like the same kind of compelling information Yes, you then did okha feel like it got enough information to be able to make an adequate recommendation to the council on whether to confirm or not So I think you you saw on our minority report. Um that um Yeah, it's interesting to see and and this that format of a report is something that that okha is also going to follow So, um, I will say that we did sort of feel a little bit like our job was only to say here are the names Do you think seeing these names that these people could do? The right job and that's how okha looked at what our role was In that process and of course we're open to if people, you know Think that that our role would be different. We're completely open to Suggestions or different ideas or opinions Evan you seem different common So, uh, so two things. I think one some of this was done In deference to the town manager recognizing these are his appointments. Um, and so We're making requests of him, but Not demanding information necessarily, but to your question of do we feel like we got enough information? You probably saw my facial expression and the reason for that is, uh Yes In the end, but no initially and I'll explain that. Um, so What we got from the town manager as you saw was sort of what these What his uh, his recommended appointees qualifications were and we felt like that was sufficient Where we had a lot of discussion in the committee was on demographic information and process and we weren't sure You know, we recognized it's the goal of the town and of the council To increase representation on committees and we didn't necessarily see that demographic information there We had a long discussion in the committee with the town manager present And he gave us some explanation as to Why he didn't provide some detailed Information that he can speak to if so asked But with the uh follow-up that he would provide sort of a broader report which we saw as part of his town manager report So I think that as I think that if you take those two documents together Then the answer is yes Dorothy I think that all the caf should be made public and that we should all see them Um, I know that we don't necessarily discuss them and this isn't a public forum Though there's an alternative method that said that we could um have Interview more than the number of of candidates for an office But I just I just feel that there's there's not enough transparency in this system And there's been a lot of mistrust that has built up over the years that has been reported to me Uh about the appointing process. So Um, I'm just recommending that we all see the caf's and that they may that they be made public Dorothy Darcy, I'm sorry. Um, yeah, I think that um, I was the minority vote on the issue of the process And I'm very interested to hear, um, Mandy joe's opinion that um that we May have more power Over the appointment process than we have been acting like in oka um I feel like we have the responsibility to confirm So in order to confirm we need to have information from the town manager and uh, I think that It's interesting to hear that you think We have the power to ask for that because That wasn't the majority opinion in the oka committee Um, I in the last week had the opportunity to talk to one of the city counselors in Northampton, which I mentioned to the oka committee this morning and he You know, uh told me that that in northampton, um, they Assumed that cafs are public records that they are, um Published to When they are when they are, uh, the Person in the public makes the application they go Uh, automatically to the full city council and to the public Uh, in other words, there there's a link on the website. So they're accessible to anyone Um, and they have a fully public process so, um I it's it's I am having a hard time struggling with, uh Why we are so different from northampton in the way they deal with this and how open and transparent they are and how, um much the public is able to Um see what's going on behind the scenes Which I would I would like to see here Other further comments Andy Yeah, I find this very difficult because in the situation that was just described from northampton Um, there's no information about who in northampton chose not to apply because They didn't want the fact of their application to be public And on the other hand, we don't really have information and amused about whether Um, we had people who did apply Who would not have applied had it become public So that whichever way you flip the question we're sort of, um Lacking a piece of information And, um, I would hope that we could find some way to, um Improve our knowledge In order to make What I think is a very important decision One possibility That's that's in our control is, um Something of surveying the people who have applied for positions and amused And how they feel about the process and if they would have done acted differently had the process been different Um, I'm actually like to follow up on Andy's comment that Um, one of the ongoing challenges that people have brought up is whether or not It is in fact true That people would not submit their names um In the form of a calf if they knew that the calf was going to become public And although we have some anecdotal Evidence that people would not have allowed their name to go forward Uh, what I would like to see us do it is at some point certain perhaps Right around July 1 when we've completed a round of appointments We actually do such a survey not just to find out whether people would Uh, allow how they would feel about the calf becoming public, but how do they feel about the process in general? Uh, how did they you know, we we say we want to evaluate this process and Uh, my You know the researcher in me wants to say okay, there's ways to do that And it can be done through an anonymous questionnaire and it can be done through Um, taking those responses and it can be done in a way that we look at both Whether they were committed appointments of the council or they were confirmations of the council for manager appointees So um as we move forward with this, I would like to keep in mind that idea that we Seek feedback about our appointment process including That very Niggling question of whether or not people would have applied if They knew their calf was going to be made public Just following following up on what you just said about research I would very much encourage that but also look at is there existing research that has already been done whether this affects Especially particular communities if they feel more inhibited and because that's the flaw of the survey Is that the very people who probably are not going to apply and Want to be anonymous may not be the ones who are answering the surveys And I think as we look at the town manager's Report and he where he has summarized Uh, the calves received to date. We already see we don't do very well in attracting diverse Applicants in any number of measures. So um We have a problem to start and the question is are we Enhancing the problem or exacerbating the problem and at whose benefit? I Just want to do some clarifying on some of my earlier questions. Um, I do think The process of looking at the confirmations is separate than the process for Appointing and being recommending for us being the appointing authority. Um, so I was asking because the information you need Or want might be different Because looking at confirming The way I look at it as a counselor is Are the people that the manager is putting forward competent qualified? Are they diverse enough given a pool and all of that not Could could the manager have picked someone would I have picked someone different? Because that's not necessarily my job to do that And so that's why I was asking did you feel you got enough information? I don't want us as a council to give up our ability to seek information if we believe we need it to be able to make those Decisions on the confirmation level or even on the appointment level, which is why I asked that follow-up question And if the committee believes it got the information it needed I just hesitate for us as a council to cede that authority that we have in the charter Immediately when the manager pushes back so Yes So, you know, we we did look at what we had and and we did recommend to you I will say as someone who has been doing interviews and who I did not sleep at all last night I was up all night long actually working on just a draft of what my Memo would be to oka and then to the entire town council because I felt that there was More information that I would feel compelled to give to the entire town council in order for them to feel More informed and I'm not sure if that means I I think that You know that the town manager didn't give us enough. I still feel like the the way we interpreted the role I think we did I think that we still stand by that and I still think that we as oka think that that was Our job and that's how we handled it, but I definitely was compelled to to give oka and to give you guys a lot of information George Speaking as a member of oka and to man his question I felt we had more than enough information to make an adequate judgment I think it's and I also believe personally that we have no business seeing the cafs for town manager appointments We should not be looking over his shoulder in that regard So I felt that what we got was an adequate I think it's a very important question about diversity But that's kind of and trying to reach underrepresented communities But I don't think that's the question when we're looking at specific appointments. That's a long term Issue that's going to take some time for us to work out and resolve But I hope the council will make a distinction between town council appointments and town manager appointments And I do not believe that For town manager appointments the cafs should be something that we should be looking at Okay So I think I I would echo what both George and manager said the information that we need is different Because our roles are different and so I do want to just say It was said before that it's the responsibility of the council to confirm town manager appointments Which it is not The charter says the appointments become effective after 30 days Uh, unless The council Votes to approve or reject. There's no requirement that we this is we're not the senate confirming the ag right There's no requirement. We could do nothing We're chose we're choosing in this instance to positively affirm to say we're not going to wait for the 30 days We're going to approve But we don't have a response necessarily a responsibility We are choosing to do so and I think that that part of the charter makes very clear that our role in this is very light That these are town manager appointments and we only necessarily need to act if we feel like These are great people. We got a we don't want to wait 30 days We want them to be in there now or if we look at them and go Paul, what were you thinking? We're not going to do this and we reject them. But other than that, I would back up with georgia. We shouldn't be Exceeding our authority because our our fingerprint on this is intended to be very light Are there further comments? Yes You know as we were writing the charge for ecac one of the things we were looking at the diversity of and I know we've touched upon it, but One of the communities that I was looking for is businesses and I was curious if They were applicants that reflected the business community because in the list that I'm looking at I know we have a renter Evan and But what I'm not seeing is a business community person represented So I don't know if they never applied or we're not good enough or I don't so at this point You're moving to questions specifically about the appointments Yes And and that might be the I mean in the future like would we be getting that sort of not naming people But would we be getting that sort of information like what was a pool of candidates in terms of diversity? Specifically not just demographics, but I guess That does fit into demographics. I don't know The question I think is in part going to be Whether or not the CAF It differentiates in a way that we get that information For renters for business people etc I mean you could be a professor at the university and list that as your profession, but In fact, you might have a serious business on the side But they were interviewed right so they would know at some point If it was a relevant issue It's part of the alicia see charge to have People represented right and from different communities Alyssa so so just I know there's a lot of different pieces of electronic paper here, but The town just as sarah indicated would happen with the appointments that we bring forward that are town council appointments We're planning for a zba ring choice voting participatory budgeting. We'll be talking about What needs so to speak those people met right in just the way you're talking about so I would refer you back to the town managers ECAC memo of the 22nd and if you're saying his memo doesn't cover that Then that would be a question I believed that his memo did track enough with you know as an oka member That what he wrote about each of those individual people that he did end up appointing tracked enough perhaps maybe are you saying that because The very specific thing you asked for didn't track with any of these individual people Would you like then whether it's his memo or oka's memo to say Yes, we asked for this specific thing and this specific thing is not available to us because that no one applied But I'm not sure how you phrase that other than these profiles you've given of each of these people Guess as part of the process if The information that's provided by the town manager would include the the different Would that be a demographic or would that be experience or Occupations of the different people like so many people from broad sectors like of education applied or business applied or Certain communities applied. I don't know just to get it. It seems to me that We can ask the town manager when relevant that Um And known that he pointed out if candidates and he'd be sensitive to candidates Or committees to having representation from the business community That Is about as all we can do Unless we you know that completely revamped the CAF and I think that goes back to At some point let's evaluate this Dorothy if all the CAFs were public Knowledge Then if we looked and saw that some area you know each individual was underrepresented We could in fact seek out and encourage somebody else to apply But if we don't know what the CAFs are we don't know who's applied And so we don't know what the pool is that the decisions are being made from Okay, george We have a list of names in front of us And I assume you've read them And you can form your own judgments for ecac We are in an awkward position in that right now with planning zoning ecac We're appointing entire groups of people As opposed to the normal process where hopefully it'll be one or two at a time And then I think it would be a natural thing You have a candidate in front of you and we are looking for a particular Demographic or diversity and we're not seeing it We could go back to whatever the right to Paul or whoever it is And say we're not satisfied. We're but here you've got an entire group of people so You can read it and make your decisions But I think we're also somewhat complicated by the fact we're doing so many at once And I hope over the time some of these questions can be addressed But right now I don't see how you could address them I are you going to address I'd reject one person from this group because it doesn't fit some preconceived demographic notion If I don't see how you could you could do it, I guess, but I don't see the logic of it So at this point I think the process is a good one I think we've been given more than enough information But it's in front of you. You can read it and make your own judgment Darcy and I would just add to Shawnee that Jesse Selman is a partner at a downtown business Thank you. And there is one other renter in addition to Evan Yes Andy when Robbie Robbie Kumar the renter Also think that we need to recognize that the charter Provides that there's a resident advisory committee and that we need to make sure we understand the role of the resident advisory committee And not put ourselves in the position of redoing A responsibility that was assigned in the charter to another group I'd like to place the Read the motion and see if somebody's prepared to make that motion And it's to confirm under the Amherst home rule charter section 211 b The town managers appointees to the energy and climate action committee as provided in his April April 22nd 2019 memo to the town council and is recommended by the outreach communications and appointments committee. Is there a motion? Dorothy is there a second Darcy And Dorothy's going to second it for me. So I'm out of that one. Thank you I've done it at least three times tonight. Sorry. I'm really really Apologize. All right. There's been a motion made and seconded. Let me just mention that the People that are being voted on in terms of the recommendation are Laura Draker Draker, I guess it is Andra Rose Jesse Selman Dwayne Breger Darcy Dumont Nikki Robb Steve Roof Ashwin Ravik Kumar and Evan Ross Is there any question or further comment? All those in favor All those opposed All those abstaining Let the record show that Evan Ross abstained All right, and then I have a request of the town manager and that is That either you or your designee Pull the people that we have just voted in for this committee and schedule the first meeting Okay, thank you The next agenda item is we will be receiving Town council appointee recommendations from OCA For the planning board the zoning board of appeals the rank chose choice voting commission And participatory budgeting commission Section 2.9 c of the charter clearly specifies That the town council shall appoint all members of the planning board and zoning board of appeals For staggered three-year terms Likewise section 10.10 specifies that the council shall create a rank choice voting commission And section 10.11 specifies that the town council Shall create a participatory budget commission Based upon these sections of the charter when the outreach communications and appointment committee advances Their recommendation for each of these appointments all All materials that were made available to the full OCA committee To make their recommendation will be made available to all members of the town council However, it would be very clear the same rules regarding debate deliberation, etc apply to To that applied to OCA also imply to the entire town council In regard to this and consistent with our town attorney's advice Let me remind you that CAFs at present are not public records And they are not subject to disclosure Since CAFs will be distributed counselors for town council appointees. I am communicating this process The counselors will receive the CAFs independently from any other documents And the CAFs are not public documents They shall not be discussed deliberated photograph duplicated or in any way shared with anyone else Except for the party to whom they are intended And CAFs may have private information redacted prior to the counselors receiving them And that the process will apply only to CAFs for town council appointees Questions. Yes, Alyssa How can I put this nicely? I have no idea what you're talking about Are you proposing that you have decided this as president or that this is a subject for discussion because OCA has never had Had was not aware that you were planning to do this tonight. So I'm just trying to understand What this means I am proposing that we are doing this You're leaving it up to discussion or you're announcing welcome to discuss it I'm always one up for discussion. And I always seem to have an opinion. Um As I sort of Indicated in our previous discussion I believe we as a town council under the charter have the right to seek this information Whether or not it be a public document because we are the appointing authority for those boards And committees or for two of them. We share appointment authority. Um, and through personally through a lot of discussion with others and a lot of thought on my own I feel like it I'm I know I'm not on OCA. So I'm not part of making the recommendations, but I'm having a hard time reconciling my Duty as an appointing authority to be able to make that appointment with full knowledge and full um belief and say This is who I believe not who's confirming but that these are the right people to choose Without knowing I'm not sure how I could do that without knowing who has applied Um, it's it's that simple if I don't know who's it's different than the confirmation process where I can look at names with some summaries and say those That looks logical and I don't need to know who wasn't chosen because I'm not appointing I'm just saying Here's who someone else wants to appoint and yeah, that looks good um, but I am one of 13 that's an appointing authority and I don't know how I can say these are the right people if I don't know who Is on the other side of that and so I think we have every right under the charter to seek that information as counselors and I think in Doing our due diligence as counselors and a full counsel appointing authority We need that information that doesn't mean I believe it should be public to the public um, if the public has a problem with who we put forth In full vote and who we would appoint their Confirming option is to oust us from office. That's that's the Confirmation if they don't like who we're putting on those boards That's how they do it. Just like if we don't like who Paul's putting on the boards We either say no to that. Well, they say no to it by getting rid of us um The second guessing Is is is something that if we recognize that we shouldn't be second guessing who's not chosen from the manager There's there's a similar one and I probably will not be popular for saying that in a public meeting, but there's a similar If we're not You can look at who we're appointing and see whether they're qualified But we as the appointing authority should have the ability to know Everyone who applied other comments George then i'm trying to understand what the role of my committee is It sounds like we should just distribute the caps to the entire body And let you make your choice That's not what we asked for what what are you asking us to do you're asked We're asking what you're planning to do which is to give us a recommendation from oka And at the time you give us that recommendation We see All of the information that you had available to us Alyssa So I'm sure you know what my opinion is on this but i'm going to go I want to go with two parts of it one is I appreciate even though I had no idea what you were talking about when you first started speaking I appreciate The detail at which you described that and maybe I would ask that you repeat that before we make a final vote Because I want to make it super clear to all the other counselors who haven't had this conversation Over and over again at oka like we've had you haven't had to be exposed to it That since those are personnel documents You cannot say at a future meeting, but what about bob? I know bob applied You can't say that because that's a personnel document and you've now outed a personnel document and that would be bad The other part I just want to clarify is that I would ask that we alter the way that's that I think I heard that phrased again hearing it for the first time That I don't want oka to provide you that information I want town staff to provide you that information Directly just as they did to us so that we're not involved in passing personnel records along Just as you've asked that individuals are not person passing personnel records along So you'll get so right if this passes tonight There's nothing stopping the council from getting that information tomorrow In the cafs depending on if you decide something needs to be redacted But the actual and then the actual memo from oka Will remain as we intended it to remain and it won't have anything attached In terms of those individual caps those caps will just be something that as you said we knew about Before we wrote the memo we won't attach them to the memo, but those two things don't have to go together in time They should in fact not go together. Thank you Sarah So just as someone who's been working on this process for a really long time I also believe that if if this is what the council would like to do Then I would also like feedback in the amount of material that you require From us like what what we're reporting back to you because it's a right now It's a ginormous amount of information which then could maybe become completely redundant if You then are seeing all the cafs So in my mind if we change the process in this way, then I would want to discuss how Oka adapts To that exchange of information just as a clarification All that's asked for is that The council received the same documents you received Caffes A list And I and there's no other documents So Resumes whatever There's no other documents. So you don't need to be you wouldn't require a report You the report is separate You just separate this Oka will still do their process And you will still you having interviewed these people will still advance a memo to oka Oka at the same time will have seen caps and a list, right? No caps, all right At the so when you make your recommendation You will advance as a committee to the council your recommendation and separately The town staff will advance to the committee the same material you received I understand that and I guess again with the consistency. I think that we've said a lot about trusting like the initial Authority that is vetting or going through or doing that Legwork so I guess I would also I mean have heard like we would trust the you know resident advisory committee I would just really want to be The issue is not trust And that's the unfortunate word that keeps getting used The issue is these are council appointments When we do the manager appointments, we are confirming These are council appointments It's not that we don't trust you It's that we have to answer to our constituents as well We think you're actually doing a great job And thank god somebody's willing to do it Mandy joe can I add one more thing the Documents are not the only thing that can go into this decision And that's why I personally believe I need okos recommendation too Right is because someone is interviewing as far as I know nearly every applicant If not every applicant the everyone that you can get in touch with as my understanding there are some that don't respond um and that to me is an extremely important part of figuring out who to recommend and We need oka for that We definitely you know, so there's certain things you can't get from an application But but seeing those applications will I believe not sitting on that committee will help me Be more confident in the council appointment that but but it's not the only information I can take into consideration Alyssa I want to back us up in the process a little bit So I know your eyes all glaze over when I talk about how it was when I was the previous appointing authority, but It was not oka's decision It was not the council's decision It was not the president's decision to stop distributing cafs To the appointing authority that was a staff decision that was made Before oka even existed before the council existed So oka was never trying to keep that information from the other councilors We were simply Given what had happened where we were no longer getting that information as used to be immediately distributed to all appointing authorities um We were trying to work with what we had And so I just want to be clear to the public that we are following through as best we can Balancing all the issues we had given the information we had But we did not make a choke point on the cafs and so That's not that wasn't an oka decision the oak the decision was What to do with what we were getting which at that point at it was only very recently that we ourselves Actually got the cafs of the people who had applied So I appreciate everybody taking all of this into account because all of this material is still an unfolding scenario Just to however it was the public's decision to separate the legislative and the and the administration process Which is what the charter does When you were getting all of the cafs you were sharing administration or management with the town manager I would argue we were a separate appointing authority and that's why we were getting them not because we were part of the executive But we can have a difference of opinion on that Steve So is Amherst the only Of the 351 cities and towns that does this this way because As far as I know, it's typically a no or not. Okay. No mayoral appointment or elected by the It's either a town manager mayoral or elected at large are the most but I don't think there's a one way that others do it, but it's A lot it's what one of the things you said Two weeks ago some places. These are elected positions But they're often debated positions because they're very particularly for planning and zoning the regulatory entities. So it's not a It's it's a it's a clear responsibility. So If I may just seems like we're in this weird hybrid where we're calling So like I think of the word appointing authority as being a single person like a chair or a town manager And the when we start to use that for a body of 13 Then that's really where the complication is. So but it is the way the charter reads We are the appointing authority and there's four bodies. We appoint to pat I actually have a question for paul You you chose or the staff chose to stop giving the caps. I guess I'm interested in what your reasoning was The charter came into effect so it came into effect and then We just didn't start doing anything with the caps everything was an on hold Since march 27th because we weren't really able to start appointing at that point when the when the council comes in I look for direction from the council on how you want to handle your appointing authority and I think the the council's been struggling with the appointing authority And I guess we could have sent the caps to all the counselors To start that process, but I was looking for how do you want to handle it? So any any participants anything to your appointing Any any committees to which you appoint those are your caps you're entitled to do with them how you see fit as a council garcy I just have one more question for the town manager Is there an outstanding question to the attorney general about Whether the cafs are public records? That was my understanding to the attorney general Yeah, I thought there was an additional question or a question to the ag Alyssa check me if I'm wrong I think the outstanding question to the attorney general was whether the ochre process was legal So to clarify We were never going to get an opinion from the attorney general as to whether or not the caf Or the ochre process was legal because that's not what the attorney general's office does The town attorney was going to run Our practice months ago that we talked about at length on a conference call Past a contact at the division of open government and say do you see any flags? I don't see based on my years of experience. I'm thinking this works Do you see any problems and that because that was when we were still moving away from having two people on the council Be so that was part of a previous question The outstanding question is there is no outstanding question the attorney general's office The outstanding question is to circle back to the town attorney about the caf fields That's the conversation that there's no question that right now It's a personnel document the question moving forward is do we want to change that? And if we do what parts of it do we want to change and that we will need the town attorney in terms of employee records and personnel records and open and public records as well as So that's going to be the outstanding question And we just haven't circled back on how to alter the caf and we will need the attorney's help to figure that out Based on current hr processes But the town attorney has given us Her opinion or their opinion on our present caps I understand that I I guess I just don't understand how one town can define The caps as public records and the town next door can define them as personnel records What's that about and What It's not can we just define them the way we want to uh, or is there an answer is there like A legal opinion would the attorney general tell us something different should we ask the attorney general is it mr. Bacoma I don't think the the attorney general doesn't give you an opinion like that That's why we go to our town attorney to get the opinion But if different town attorneys have different opinions, what then what do we do? I mean town attorneys can Give you the opinion that you want I think right no not our town attorney, but I do Town attorney, but town attorneys do disagree on interpretation of law. I don't think that's a surprise to anybody and We have a very reputable firm that represents over a hundred communities in the commonwealth And they bring an assessment of our practice based on their experience in all the other communities but May I speak? Then who is the ultimate arbiter of What these records are? I mean, how is there is there a possibility of getting a definitive decision Since towns differ on this The I would go on the definitive opinion of what our town attorney tells us That's how I base my operations Because if I want my town attorney to be on my side If there's a challenge to something if the town attorney says you're doing something wrong I need to change that practice, but the town attorney says this is in compliance with how I interpret the law I don't care what someone in another town said to there and I don't know the question That was posed to the other community or what the what the set of facts are I just know what my set of facts are and I know what our attorney has examined those sets of facts And has made a made an analysis and legal opinion to to me So that's how I would interpret it and that's how I interpret anything for any kind of legal question Alyssa I just want to be really clear that And I think that was you know to let that settle for a minute is really important because that's true for all town attorney opinions Right, there's sometimes been things in the past that the town attorney's written that I've been like I don't think that sounds right But then we ask different questions and we see if we can elicit a different opinion I think where the difference is here is that this is what's true Right now when we do this evaluation process We've been talking about that we have every intention of doing and you aren't ok and you're going to help with it is that We one potential is that we put a disclaimer on the caf that says by the way all this is public In which case if we say that Assuming that that is not in conflict with any other types of personnel Rules and which our town attorney would check But assume we would have them check that but if we said that then in theory then yeah It wouldn't be a personnel record anymore, but we would need right now It is and so that's a future discussion absolutely Dorothy I I believe that we always have the option of doing it in executive session If we interview a certain number more than the space the spots we're trying to fill So if our town attorney says these are personnel records and have to be kept very private Then we could do that process, but if it's a council appointment I feel that the council members need to have the full information in order to do that job well so The issue we are discussing is the issue as follows These are four committees to which the town council appoints the members it's It's a body. It's not an individual And that's based on the charter and outreach communications and appointments is in the process of Doing a process whereby they're interviewing They're having an one individual do the interviews and make a recommendation back to ocha and then ocha In turn will make a recommendation to the council So what we've been discussing is that at the time The council receives ocha's recommendation From ocha separately They would receive from a town employee design a Of the town manager all of the material that they also had provided to ocha to make their decision that's what the issue that we're discussing is and At this point because the CAFs are not subject to disclosure The council then needs to understand What the restrictions are about those? And I repeat you shall not discuss deliberate photograph or duplicate in any way share with anybody Or with other than yourselves Not even among yourselves They're private information. They may have redacted materials from them and the process Will apply only to CAFs for town council appointments Are there other questions about that? Yes, clarifying question When you said all the material that ocha received does that mean that ocha received all of the CAFs? My understanding is that ocha received the CAFs that for those people that they interviewed There may have been CAFs that they did not receive Because the people didn't respond. I will need to have a clarification on that I don't know how many I think Angela sent all the CAFs, but I've really just don't know the answer to that question But there we will then need to also know when there are people that Between the time they submitted a CAF and We got to this point. They've moved out of town. So they're no longer eligible Maybe they couldn't be reached through any number of methods And even then they may have been reached and said, you know, I'm not interested anymore Or the more I've learned about this the more I'm not interested So we would receive all of the CAFs Yeah, yes 105 I feel like when you have a big family your mom calls you by every other name until she gets to yours Sarah John I'm joining Beth Kate Sarah. Yeah um, so Again when you said talking from a researcher's point of view You know, okay, I tried pretty I would say that I understand from looking at somebody else's decisions thinking, hmm I think I want to know everything that was on the table. Um, so For me I personally think I would like to keep this process pure And the way that we set it up. Okay, just from the just from the idea of we set it up We were told we could go with it. I would like to just see where it ends up knowing full well I know this committee is going to say We're going to do it all different the next time and that's we're a team. That's totally cool One thing I would say is that if people do vote To get the CAFs from a researcher point of view someone who's really been looking at this exhaustively and also looking at what I'm going to give everyone as Um, information I would be interested to see if anyone's Deciding process changed considerably And this is just from somebody who's putting the report together from seeing the report And seeing the CAF. So that does that make sense? So if you looked at my report to you And made a decision then you looked at the CAFs I would just be interested as if They Seeing that additional information Did that just make you really like kind of flip about what your decision was seeing my report? That's just from a research standpoint Other comments Shallony So I feel that we are really getting along well And I trust everyone in this room But the the processes need to be such that they may be different compositions of people and And it should have enough transparency and you know checks within it that You know if there is a certain group of people that whatever then the process will have those checks in place Okay, Evan so I'm In this seat as an oka member but also trying to think of how I would feel if I was not an oka member And so I can I can certainly understand both sides of this There's two things I wanted to say One is that this council Has an infatuation with the CAFs Having seen them many of them provide very little detail The the the real meat of the information is going to be coming from the interviews Which have been done and which You know have informed the decision The CAFs are variable And so I'm sort of wait. I I don't know where this vote's going to go But I'm sort of waiting for everyone to get the CAFs and then go That's it um And they may and so And I'm fine with that. Um, but what I will say is I don't know what the sense of the full council is Although I have an assumption Um My big concern has always been balancing transparency and privacy and It's it's easy as someone who has had these CAFs now It's so easy until you get them to say we're not going to talk about them We're not going to mention them and then you get them and you go I want to talk about them, right? Because you have them and you want to talk about them with each other And so my one thing would be if if the council's decision is to release the CAFs to every member of the council I you know, and I would respect that decision. I would understand why you would want that But that we really do respect The fact that they are private documents. They are personnel records Because the more people they get their hands on them once it goes from five to 13 You're increasing the chances that it gets out there. Um, and so My main concerns here are protecting privacy and so I cannot reinforce that enough that it's really hard not to talk about it's hard not to tell a secret once you get a secret Right, not that these are secret, but it these are personnel records and it it will be difficult. I think Are there any further comments? I just want to say my biggest secret is my age and yet it's a public document Anyone who looks up the voter rolls finds it out. So I really you know How how many other secrets are we expecting to have people have? Mine I've got a lot I did not originally put this forward as a motion would someone like to make a motion I'm not sure how to word it because you're the one that's got the wording But I guess the the motion is I move that the town manager provide To the town council the same documents that the town manager Or designee provided to the oca committee Regarding appointments to The planning board the zba The participatory budgeting commission and the ranked choice voting commission For these appointments and also for all future appointments at this Is so well no so so it's that I don't know how to word it, but it's not just for this round We don't have to revote this unless we want to remove it. Okay. Is there a second Kathy Okay, andy have a question was it The information provided by the town manager or was it all of the information that was available to the Appointments committee it it was the information provided by the town manager Yes, alissa So I think two things are important to clarify because there have been a couple different phrases Tossed around because it's totally reasonable to assume there might have been something like a list or resumes What none of those things exist It's true that the town manager has reported to us that not Everyone he necessarily interviewed had filled out a caf But perhaps had expressed personal interest So if you were if you were which we are not if you were doing this The town manager you might not end up with an equal number because there may not be a caf for somebody he interviewed Or didn't interview When it comes to the oca process There are no resumes. There are no writing samples. There are no lists. All there are is caf So I'm a little loathe to have it say All materials because I will tell you a different material that was provided to us It was an interview schedule that was provided to the to the designee who's doing the interview I don't think that's an appropriate piece of material to hand out because that's an interview schedule So I just want to be clear that the things we're talking about would be things that Would be decision-making things like a caf or if there were resumes or if there were other things I believe your interview schedule is going to be attached to your recommending document No, it is not. There's no reason the questions that you're going to do I'm not talking about a schedule. I'm talking about a literal schedule Like somebody's coming in on thursday at five o'clock the questions Right, so I just want to be clear that yes absolutely the interview questions So they're already public and they were they were intended to be part of not not an interview schedule I just don't know Since we are sitting on the outside and we haven't heard a report as to exactly what oca has seen That's that's what lin was using So that's the wording I used if it is truly just pronounce of the calf or Email copy of the right that that is literally. I just don't know. We just don't know what all you get Sarah, that's why it's worded that way. I just want to make it clear that we didn't ask We didn't solicit resumes everything that We received were the cafs of the pool and I even say that of people who are still who had applied for From two years ago to now who are still living and who are residents of amherst and still expressed interest That's what our pool is I will say that unsolicited one person did hand me a resume. I have not shared that with Anyone else so there is there's one resume that I myself have seen I know of one resume. I will also say that Since this process began just today. I found out that someone who had applied has now Asked that their name be removed from our applicant list So just keep in mind that you know if you're going to get these there, you know We'll be very forthcoming with what we got I'll also tell you that we don't have the only cafs that we have are the pool for the planning board And the zoning board of appeals. We don't have anything else The recommendation that I had suggested was that Those caps be advanced to us at the time you give us your memo That okah gives the council their memo Okay, so that That would be friendly Okay All right, elissa Is there a way to include I know and I'm looking at mr. Steinberg because I know how much he loves long motions But is there a way to include In our records beyond the minutes the really definite personnel Information that you provide that you made so clear. I mean how The motion doesn't include anything about protecting these as personnel records And so your original explanation did the motion that's on the floor does not say anything about protecting them as personnel records And I I'm really concerned that that remained part of it Or a separate motion Okay, let's just deal with the motion and then go to a separate motion Is there any other question about the motion? Do you want to attempt to read it for us? That the town manager provided to the town council the same documents provided to the OCA can they regarding appointments to planning board zoning board of appeals rank choice voting commission and participatory Budgeting commission at the time okah presents their recommendation to the town council Okay, any further discussion on that yes Yes, I don't see why you can't he they can't just send them out tomorrow because you're not getting our recommendations tomorrow You may as well get them. So that was again that separate thing we talked about what seems like an hour ago That there's nothing stopping I don't think they should go together because that makes it seem like they're part of a package I think that you should just get those cafs as soon as staff is ready to give them to you And the oca recommendation is completely separate from that Okay, fine Any further questions on that one Yes So are you Deleting that last phrase then that was the friendly amendment phrase. I guess we are yes Yes All right, any further questions? All those in favor opposed obscene eight to five Eight to five Okay, eight to five in favor. Okay. Now the next motion is that around the issue of Not disclosing deliberating or otherwise sharing the documents Somebody want to try to craft that motion for me, please? I said Okay, I move that because the The CAFA documents are at present considered not are not considered public documents They shall not be discussed, deliberated, photographed, duplicated or in any way shared with anyone else Except for the party for whom they are intended Second Okay Yes Steve Or what or what are the consequences? So I mean in other words That's a very good question except that You'll have somebody else to answer to Right Yeah, it's I think it's guidance. I think it's the guidelines that we go with and I don't see it as a motion I mean when when okra received it it didn't receive it as a motion It received it as guidelines as guidance As rules I mean the consequences you've destroyed the privacy of the process and you've outed some individuals by talking about their CAF and not others And so it's a drastic consequence. It's important But I understand what you're saying about the fact that we didn't vote to adopt that because it's just a fact It's what personnel records are It's not our interpretation of personnel records. It's what personnel records are Okay, sarah Yeah, just so that it's cleared my understanding from all the talking to the the town attorney that we did and then what we received In relation to a public documents request is that these are to be treated as personnel files and the or what would be that you've broken Open Meeting law and you've you've you've now shared something that someone did not When someone filled out that CAF there was nothing on there that said these things will be made public So you've now given public information that that individual did not Agree at this time to disclose. I'm going to withdraw the motion This person that seconded it Yeah, I won't object to that. Okay Yes, so can the minutes simply reflect that it was stated repeatedly? But that it's in our I think I said at least five or six times I know that there's lots of things we say that don't end up in the minutes, but I think that's an important We'll check the minutes for that one. Is there any other conversation? All right, then we're going to move on. Yes Okay We have committee reports Alyssa, I think we're done with rules of procedure for tonight Yes Yes, what was that deadline again? Thursday Close the business Thursday close of business to Margaret Thank you Outreach communication appointments Sarah Oh my goodness. I think you heard it all. Thank you Uh governance organization legislation Mandy joe none tonight. We'll have a written report next meeting finance committee They will offer none no more tonight than we already did Okay, the only thing I'm going to remind you and I'm you're getting an email at nine o'clock tomorrow morning is that we do need your goals Uh material or let me know that we're not going to get it by may 16th community resources committee steve So we have met twice since the last meeting and my apologies that there's not a written report So the meeting of april 24th was um chaired by Vice chair Dorothy Pam Because I wasn't there and the primary discussion item were the c-pack recommendations And there was a vote of four to zero to support the c-pack recommendations as they were presented So this is um, it's worth noting that There was a meeting that same day regarding something that the basically the five hundred thousand dollar allocation for the Project on north hampton road and it as a reaction to that meeting and to other information A lot of us have been contacted You know regarding that particular recommendation So someone from that meeting has is going to when we meet next time Probably make a motion that we reconsider and give more Chance more discussion on that particular that particular issue Um our last yeah I'm going off the report. I'm sorry. Yeah Yeah, yeah I'm sorry. I'm ad-libbing that part of it, but That's not part of the that's not for discussion at this time. Yeah, I'm sorry, you know what let's can I strike Strike the minutes. Yeah Thank you At our last meeting we discussed the initial Goals and so we went through the list of the town council goals and we discussed that so Yeah, I'm sorry. I went off off ad-libbed a little bit there Okay Pat by law review anything Continuing to work. Thank you And audit committee we're we just did it. Thank you. We have the approval of minutes There's two sets of minutes. I'd like to do it as a consent agenda So the motion would be to approve the minutes to prove the April 22nd town council minutes As presented and to approve the April 23rd town council minutes as presented Is there a motion? So moved second It was Mandy Joe and Pat okay, are there Changes or corrections to the April 22nd minutes Any to the April 23rd minutes Hearing none all those in favor opposed abstain Okay, there's three people abstained brewer Schwartz and Steinberg Okay Um, all right How managers report Four things first off great Cleanup day on saturday. Thank you all for who participated We collected 340 pounds of trash and 100 pounds of recycling We had participation from the rotary club the amherst college football team the amherst high school football team The boy scouts the amherst garden club The counselors and a special shout out to our cpo's jennifer angela and bianna who pulled it all together and did all the planning and We're there that day as well number two the um cup of joe with paul We're going to be talking about budget on friday at kelly's restaurant with sonia aldrich will be the special guest star As you heard earlier and it's in written in my report We have i have contracted with pvta to provide late night bus service from may through September so that will happen and lastly rise the recreational marijuana shop on Meadow street is scheduled they should have their opening Hopefully not before friday friday will be a crazy day But they're hoping to open on saturday or sunday or if not early next week So that will you will see an impact traffic wise probably because of that And any questions of the town manager at this time? I just I just had one on on your report. Um the bridge The bridge up by puffers. You said nearly open art. Do you have any more sense or you're just going to keep us posted? I keep keep you in suspense. I don't know what it's going to open when the state says they're open and the contractor Pulls out and the state says it's done. It will open Uh, I've talked with the president and we will have a ribbon cutting of some sort that the council will be invited to But we don't know when that will happen. They could be finished within the next week or two though And the other I want to just uh do a comment on cleanup day I thought it was a fabulous idea and I said that earlier if we could get The information out earlier to people. Um, I've got two or three residents at the last minute who didn't know about it One actually brought a sled with her was climbing down banks and pulled out many of those pounds So we have some willing people who really want to do this. Um, they just Need somehow to be on on the list of call me Um, I did have an inquiry about station road bridge. I took A response straight out of your memo and if you would just share that with people at this time Sure. So station road bridge. We have contracted to purchase a bridge It should be here within a week or two probably two Then uh, we're going to continue to move forward and installing the bridge Probably it'll be finished in june And we we are still waiting words from the state, but we're basically at this point We can't wait for the state and we will be Installing and hoping that they Approve all the things we've taken all their comments into consideration And believe that it's perfectly legal the way we're doing things Thank you pat. Was there another question? Oh darsie I just had wondered if you could remind us about um What of the latest update with a solar landfill or I know it said no progress, but What what is the timeline? What what how does it stand right now? I don't know that off the top of my head I have to ask deafening So I don't know that off the top of my head. We can find that out for you We'll get back to you with that information. Okay additional information or questions Uh town council comments, uh, let me just mention I mentioned earlier I did not do council liaisons on tonight's agenda. It was already too long I do want to inform you however that After our meeting on april 22nd It was brought to my attention that greenfield savings bank had requested Three bag meters immediately in front of the green of their branch located at 108 north pleasant street This was so that they're not prefer not for profit partners big brothers big sisters Could pick up bibs for the daffodil run and that pickup was during friday april 26th from 10 to 3 My understanding is that this didn't come forward to us because they went through a change in staff and Didn't realize that they had to get it in And because there was no bidding prior to having the request confirmed And we had not yet approved item 7a on our agenda town council policy regarding Control and regulations public ways town comments parking cyber et cetera. I authorized the town manager to approve this request Any objections Okay Anything else that any other councilor comments at this point? future agenda items Not that we don't have enough. Yes dorsi. Um, I would like to see uh in a future agenda item The issue of the petition that was brought by the bid To the select board and then it was referred to the downtown parking working groups that is um Probably a lot of you saw the petition at americinema over the months last year that would um End enforcement after 6 p.m. Of parking fees um I'd like to have a discussion of that and um I pledge to try to find out more about it in the meantime because I know that it was referred to the downtown parking working group But they are focused mainly on availability um of parking so Anyway, I'm interested in putting that on the agenda at some point. We'll ask the town manager to bring that forward alissa I think not tonight We need to have another discussion about how to get things on the agenda because I don't think it should just be one of us Thinks it's a cool idea even though it is a cool idea and so I for example think that we should be asking the town manager to tell us what downtown parking working group is doing with that Not that we should just add it to our agenda as an item for us to discuss But I think asking the town manager to give us a report on what they're doing would be great And then figuring out is it time for us to have a next step But I don't want to just add it to the agenda as a cool thing for us to talk about. Thank you Pat I would like to see a list of future agenda items Coming to us more frequently Okay We do have such a running list and we can provide that to you as part of our packet Okay anything else It's a frightening list Just Just to prepare you any other comments or agenda items I just didn't say that I think that'd be really useful because with the the rules we just talked about today There may be some things that we could see we need to do In this work group by you know, that's something that we it's not just an agenda I didn't something we want to spend 40 minutes talking about You know, just which of these things where we're not ready to vote or make decisions So it'll be helpful to see what the framework is on where there might be space for that Let me when we I let me speak with the Town clerk and see what the best way is to get you that list and so forth. Okay Anything else steve? Well, I was going to give a shout out to bill kason who Is For his work The last standing public comment person our member in the town Really for his work on arts week and I played a small role in that by By working with bill on an architectural tour of downtown which attracted Over 30 people on arany 35 people are ready several of us want to make sure you do it again when we can all come Yeah, no, it was Yeah, no, it was super fun. I learned a lot. Thank you Any other comments? All right hearing none. I am moved to I do a here in motion to adjourn Okay pat gets it and and dorthy dorthy dorthy gets the second one All those in favor