 to restart theatre starting this Sunday on a two week trial, 60% seating capacity alone in the venue and of course other stipulations. For example, only four persons who are family can be seated beside each other. If not, it's after every two seats, you place someone. Amongst other things, so we have gotten to go ahead, but also it feels very short notice. Because to give us a go ahead two, three days ago for this Sunday, when will you get time to have market that play sell that play reach out. And we're like, um, so am I still in a table or should I move on to a next scene. That's how it really feels. And I've decided you know what, I'm just going to stay in a table and just see how this plays out first. Let this trial move on, let it happen. Because also you don't want to rush into something and and create debt. Theatre is a business, yes it's art, but it's a business. So if I move too fast and I don't have the schools coming because guess what we're doing online learning in Jamaica. For CXC for the exams, the fifth form exams leaving out of high school, they now are doing in person classes. But they feel rushed, they feel stressed, they have been doing online schooling for March, and some schools with online, they weren't getting much lessons because they don't have internet, they're in a poor area. There's so much in that. So for these students now they're on crunch time with exams this month, I think it's middle end of this month. So in a few weeks, and they don't feel ready. Will a school want to still send them to a play when they're trying to cron, an English literature play, when they're trying to crunch maybe eight subjects now in two, three weeks. So as a producer, I have to think of all of that. So am I coming out of this tableau, or am I staying for a while, while I figure out my next move. So that's how we are. Yeah, how was it? Did you have to stay at home? You're not allowed to go out? How serious were the restrictions? When did it start? So if we gradually after time kept having more and more and more restrictions, so we started with work from home. That was it. We started with 10 persons alone in a space to be gathered, and you have to be six feet from each other. Then we went to mask became mandatory from your going in a public setting in a building in a vehicle you had to wear mask. Then we'll move to curfew, 9pm curfew at night, 6pm in the morning you get to come back out. And I remember there was the Easter holiday, we had curfew I think from 2pm, you had to be in. And it depends, for example, I can say I had a complete lockdown in St. Catherine. So St. Catherine had a case and other places in Jamaica, three other places, Bull Bay, and somewhere in St. Mary had a spike in cases, a break out almost happened. So we had a call center, a BPO, that we realized that many persons had COVID-19 and that happened in St. Catherine. So we were on lockdown for two weeks, we could not come out unless we're an essential worker. So we were only able to stay in the parish, then we had it moved into we only had two days to come out of our household, two days to go to supermarket, and we had to come out based on last name, initial. So Emma Walters, I think we went out on a Saturday only. That's where it went to the market, and then we had a time like from 12pm to 4pm if memory serves, that was our time to come out of our house. And then we went back in and we stayed, and that happened for like two weeks. So I remember Bull Bay, for example, they're locked down I think was even more severe. The government literally brought food for them. They could not leave their community at all because they had one of the worst cases. The lady who came from America, I think she came from, let me not say the country because I could be wrong, she came from overseas. And she hopped all over Jamaica knowing she had corona. Went into a funeral and it was a big breaker that was our first case. And that set the country in panic because everybody was, was she around me, was she in my parish, was she in my community? So it was a lot. So, so now we're still on curfew, but we're a little later with curfew like it's 9pm, 11pm depending on midday, weekday. And we sent crafting, for example, now I can go to other parishes, we're there now. We just reopened our border. We just reopened tourism recently. And there are debates about, is that too quick? We are now, our cases are imported and by opening tourism, we are bringing in more cases. But then the reality is, purses need to earn. And tourism is a main money factor for Jamaica. That's the whole island debate going on and whether it is upset because as well with entertainment industry not fully opened, some of us are a little bit. If more cases are coming in, we'll be shutting us down longer. So that that worry is there too, depending on the industry that you're in. So that's what it is like right now in Jamaica. And has it been successful? Is COVID, how strong are the cases? How many infections? All right. So we have 715 confirmed cases so far from all the island, 700. All the island, we have 560 recoveries, which is good. So that's 78.3% recovery. Very good. So we only have 145 cases right now. So we see progress and we're like, let's not move too fast and open the borders, please. Let's not have a second lockdown. But we're doing very good in regards. So if we look at statistics, we are doing good. It's just for Jamaicans to take it seriously, wear their mask, practice social distancing, things like that. So we have to play our part too. And Jamaicans listen to the government they followed? Not quite. Because I've been out and seen social gathering and I'm just like, what? I'll share, recently I was taking a stroll in my community and I saw two kiddies party and I was confused. So what I say to my friends is, corona is a myth. Something is wrong with me. I have something wrong because when I pass and see a kiddies party with a pool. What? So things like that worry me. And as a government, of course, it's so hard to monitor all of that. I think beaches and rivers are open, but with strict stipulations like they close at 4pm. And social distancing as well, 10 persons and monitoring of the beaches have been going on police have been there. That's all they're doing it to ensure that persons are practicing the social distancing that we have implemented as a country. Well, it sounds like a successful strategy as such a low number of cases. Of course, you're in a way an island is a little bit more protected. You don't have like New York City. There are 6 million people taking a subway every day. A million people coming in and out of train stations and New Yorkers are so close, live so close on each other. So everything that makes the city so great and worked against us here. So, but I think New Yorkers also listen well and people are worried how long can that stay. So, so for a theater company in Jamaica, what is how does how does the daily work look like and how is the, how is theater in Jamaica is that part of the community is a part of the fabric of society are you at the center what where does it come in. I would say, there are pros and cons in there so I say we're in the middle. So yes, we are part of the community and yes we're loved, but there is also the debate of some person's main thing, for example, if I say I want to do that person's like, you know, I want to be Dr. lawyer. So there is also that that person that maybe the respect of it as a profession. So we're still building that, but even though that is there there are persons who of course love it and respect it and see the value. That's why I would say we're right in the middle of that. So for theater we rehearse for example when I'm doing my plays I rehearse six weeks for sure I know some persons rehearse eight weeks for sure some persons rehearse three weeks for sure. So it really on standards standards normally six weeks that what that's what we're trained to do. And running your play that's depends on your product so for example my product runs for a month, while some theater company run for three months six months, or theater season is normally unboxing date opens. And that's where most plays happen during that time. I tend to do March, because I my my company's aiming for six the exams which are in June. So I try and do man in March to be closer to the exam period where kids need that refresher first off the play before stepping in that exam. We have about, well, I was about to say we about how many playhouses we have but no yesterday I'm hearing that there are few playhouses that are closing. I heard about three playhouses in two days and I was like, wow, they will be because of Corona. I haven't really researched. I haven't asked us yet because I know that it's, it's a, it's a hard time. So how many tell us some names of the theater and how many roughly how many theater companies or theater buildings. So let's go to the buildings we have the word theater, which is downtown that is under construction at the moment one of our longest theater it's one of our biggest theater as well. We have the little theater which hosts our national pantomime. We have the little little theater which is right beside that we have Edna Manley college has their own theater. Then you went to study. Right. University of the West Indies, which is a college has a Philip Sherlock Center as well that's the next day of very nice lighting there. So that's for Cargill Avenue to theaters are there and that in that vicinity so that's what I'm at 76. Unix is now closed, and someone just opened one the Johnny place that there's a small theater holding like 140. So we have about seven spaces so far normally persons use school auditoriums or just any auditoriums out there as well if you want a bigger space. And especially when you're going across Allen because all of this listed is actually in Kingston. Montego Bay has one theater which is very small and I remember the name right now, Fairfield Theater that's the name. One of our theaters are in Kingston, because Kingston is a center of entertainment and life and all of that. That's where we go for all of that. But once we go out of town, persons normally use school auditoriums or you find a venue that you can erect a stage on if there is not one and carry a light sometimes going to be outside theater. Once you move out of town. Yeah. This is quite, quite amazing. So, in this time of Corona, did you, did you rethink what am I'm doing. Is there a way where you say what is essential. Are you rethinking the form of theater what you what you will be doing. Is there an influence by this time or do you think it's going to it's an interruption but it will we will continue what we did before. Definitely, I we, I had to rethink a lot of things, not just me we had that discussion, even a keeper was a part of that discussion we're having on Kingston creative. What I will hold that explain that there are nonprofit group, nonprofit artistic group and they had a discussion last, what was it me about theater post Corona. Are we going to be the same are we evolving what do we think so for before I go to that first day I'll say as an entrepreneur as a creative entrepreneur first I had to rethink. I was thinking a lot of things, but I'm still observing and seen especially with my clients being school students, I have to see what's happening in that industry. What's their way forward for me to adjust my product to assist them as well because that comes from the Ministry of Education. I have no say there that's the government. I love about what I have to say for me personally what was great during Corona. I was a part of a US Embassy entrepreneur female entrepreneur program called all program Academy for women entrepreneurs. Corona literally came during that time when I was doing that doing that program, doing my business plan all over revamping what I have looking at my services and I'm like, Okay, this is a good period to do this right now what is our way forward. In Jamaica at this moment we're looking at virtual theater. So Jamaica didn't we haven't really been doing that a lot. If at all to be honest, I'm going in my mind to see who was doing it before and nobody's popping up. So now with Corona we're looking at, hmm, are we going to stay right here and not earn for maybe a year or months or are we going to look at virtual online theater. And that's been a discussion that we have been having one person move in that space already and there's something on Father's Day. I know for example a comedian who is also a theater practitioner, he has moved his comedy shows online and it seems to be working very well. I will also be having discussion of TV that's where I was looking still looking at if this continues, I would bring my shows to TV for students to watch because what Ministry of Education was doing back in March and April, they were looking at learning from home and he looked at TV program so they created a lot of TV shows for students at home preparing for CXC preparing for sixth grade exam which is called PEP. And we just look at stuff I said, hmm, if we're continuing this, let me do this, I believe TV will fit my product better than online. Because then I'm competing with all the tempests and to kill a mockingbird shows on YouTube. Why come and watch me when I can go on YouTube and watch that free. So then we started to talk about TV, we also started to look at talk about radio. Are we going to beef up radio dramas at this moment and get our products out through that avenue. So that's the discussion we've been having in Jamaica just as a set of practitioners, how are we surviving during this time, and also what the methods we're using to survive. Will there be, will those methods be used even more post COVID-19. And is the government support for you, how is it organized in Jamaica, the theater. Oh boy, you just touched something, you just touched something right there. Oh Lord. We're still trying to foster that government support. And there are many, many reasons for that, for example, theater we still don't have an association. We start, we stop, we start, we stop, we start, we stop. We don't have that bridge between industry and government. Yes, there are other other arts, how arts forms have their associations. So the government did in March, April, I think it was in April, they did a care package where they assisted financially. Tourism were unemployed, this, that, that, that, but the entertainment industry, we didn't have a package for ourselves. There was a package, I can't remember what the title was, but for that package, anybody who didn't fit the other criteria could apply. And that was us. And that was the lowest money there was. We just fell in that we just fell in the Jamaican who maybe was always unemployed. So it was tourism, businesses who lost money or had to close doors could apply for that, as long as they pay their taxes, et cetera, et cetera. So if you're not paying your taxes, you're not going to be in that. But then employment, unemployment was a part of that if you're with a company who is, who is no longer in operation. But at the end of the day, most theater persons being freelancers, not being full and fully employed fell in the category of the least money. So that was, that also was a debate in our industry is the government supporting us. Are we going to get some support at the end of the day? Here we are waiting. Hey. So that is still there. I'm still hoping that they would. But I guess that's where they opened up a little bit earlier for us in July now to say, hey, we can't assist the way we want to assist. But here is a green light to go. And you have health insurance through as a health insurance for artists as that in the US, artists don't have that. So how is that in Jamaica? No, we don't have specific to artists. It would be that as a company, I would not reach out when I have full time employees, they get health insurance for them. But I have to be honest, I've never had the health insurance as an artist. That form a company that means something that I would have to do for me. So we're still developing as a country when it comes on to the theater and the structures that we need to put in place. We're still developing, we're still learning, we're still having that conversation to put things in place so that artists are comfortable. Akiba, as a question for you, I think you grew up in Jamaica and then you went to the US, you know, work here in the theater, you're so deeply involved in the Boston area. When you think about the Jamaican theater, what comes to your mind? Pantamine, laughter, and language. I migrated to the United States at nine. So that's a very tender age where you're starting to get a sense of self in the world as a child. One of the great benefits for me is that when I left Jamaica, the culture was just saturated. The arts were everywhere. There was very, very prominent, very live music. In the Caribbean, and you'll see this also in South and Central America, the arts, at least one in my memory, you know, and now I have to keep reminding myself I'm 30 years removed from Jamaica. So I'm probably more American than I am Jamaican today. So a lot of my memory is a child's memory, but the arts weren't separate from, they were not in categories. It was one and it was a way of seeing, being, and knowing who you are. A question of access. Just so many things that I experienced in the United States as an artist. We didn't really have that. The arts in Jamaica, theater in Jamaica, reggae, dance, all of it, the national dance, everything. It was as prominent as the sun, the sea, and the sand. And so I left Jamaica at nine with the dream of becoming an actor and, you know, going on to Hollywood and I used to beg my parents to move to LA, move from Boston. I've lived in Boston my entire time in the United States and I used to beg them, let's go to LA. That's where I can be an actor. And all of that dreaming really comes from watching Leone Forbes and Dr. Barbara Grudon and Oliver Samuels and so many of our legends who I just never, I just kept them with me, they're like tattooed into my being. One thing to understand also about Jamaican arts, whether you're talking about theater or you're talking about dance or you're talking about music, the arts holds this epistemic memory and history for us. So there's just a lot of learning. If you see, in 2018, I was in Jamaica, I went to see a production called Romy and Julie, which is an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet. It was done by a company called Jambis and Jambis is one of the lead, it's actually the leading theater company, repertory company in Jamaica. They work out of center stage in Kingston. I think that's on Cargill of Evanay. No, Dominica, that's correct. They're in what's called the corporate area in New Kingston. And just to kind of translate some of this for us in the States. New Kingston would be kind of like a midtown, you know, somewhere between downtown and the financial district, you know, so it's where the middle class and the upper middle class reside and play. If you have a theater in that area, you're pretty, pretty prominent. So I went to see, but what this company does is they premiere their plays in Kingston, and then they tore the plays around the island. So where I saw the, so that what they'll do is they have two companies. They have a company in Kingston and they have the touring company and the show is running in Repertory. So I saw it in one of the parishes outside of St. Andrew. Is the parish Clarendon? Gosh, I feel bad. I should know that. Yes, I was in Clarendon and saw it and there was about, it was in a park and it was, I felt like there were 3000 people there. It was packed. And then it went all through the night. But what I loved, I know Romeo and Juliet very well, it was this adaptation. I'm watching it. I'm thinking with something like this work in Boston, do we have the audience, etc, etc. What I loved about the production was how much that production was not, how Jamaican it was, it was their story. It was adapted to the culture and the geography of that land. And to be honest, I looked at, and it was a lot of family was late in the night, but it was a lot of families. And as I looked at the children in the audience, I thought, what are they going to remember from tonight and how much of this story are they going to feel is not theirs. And the challenge, the difference in being in the US and the transition is entering into a world where you're told that certain stories are not yours. And it's interesting because evan a talks about doing the tempest and doing to kill a mockingbird and if you look into the history of Jamaican theater, you can go and back save 50 years 4050 years. You will see that storytelling is there is a continuum without borders of stories. These are the European stories, these are the white stories being put on by black actors, these are the Jamaican that doesn't exist, at least in my experience. Theater is theater acting is acting storytelling is storytelling and they find a way to, to fit the form to speak to the needs and the well being of the audience. And for me as a person who identifies as black in the United States, it is, it's refreshing to look into Jamaica to look into Jamaica now to look into Caribbean countries. Now to look into African countries at this time. To see how the art is, is being made and how the art is speaking to the people, because in the United States is black people we're told our place. We are told, what is our story. How we should tell our stories, who we should tell our stories to we, we are pinned in, we're pinned in like animals here. So when we, myself and my business partners go to Jamaica, or go to St. Lucia or Tobago, or if we're in West Africa, we feel so free. We can watch Shakespeare and not feel like it's not ours, or that we're watching it through the lens that we are told to watch it through. It's so different. So that's where our, our connections with these motherlands begin for us this wanting to attain a freedom that our brothers and sisters in the Caribbean, and in Africa, and the continent have that we don't always have we have prominence and position here in the United States we many Frank you know that the theaters the nonprofit theaters just turned over and its leadership and we have many people of color and positions of leadership and and prominence and and access and and those people are doing, doing the job and they're doing an excellent job, and they are making a way. And they're making their way and their challenge but they're forging forward. But it's still in a box it's still we're still pinned in here. We're still told how we have to be. And I look at a place like Jamaica or particularly the English speaking Caribbean which is, you know, colonized at one point, we were colonized by the Portuguese and Spanish, but then we the fourth of July, we talk about fourth of July. We were then colonized by the British so that's why we're, we're English speaking Caribbean, but you would think that in areas like that that are just so based on manners and structure and parochial being that the arts would also be as pending and it's not. Probably penned in, in its business structure, which there are so many opportunities for growth and what I love about these communities is how interested they are in learning certain business practices that may. And not just as you say in community communications practices that can just enlarge their, their, their coast. And to move away from this us and them I don't like the us and us in the themming of people. But what we're interested in is, is, is one of the beauties of Corona is this kind of melding and mushing of borders. Yeah, we see the borders close here and there. But people keep on trampling over that we're trampling over it right now on the internet. We are, you know, their pigeons flying from here to Jamaica to send messages there'll be no borders where we're we are interrogating this notion of borders. And we are in a, in a time where we're told to stay inside, close the borders, protect ourselves. We have the privilege of this interrogation right now. And that is, I hate to use the word bridging and, you know, sees a common and cliche, you know, we're bridging, we're big bridging. I think we're talking to each other. We have to. We need you ever name, and people in Jamaica and people in Haiti, we need to hear from the people in Trinidad and to get we need to know how you're surviving, because they are crushing our bones in this country. And we need to know how you're surviving, you need to know how we're surviving, because we're surviving, we're surviving. Yeah, we're surviving, we're thriving. I don't know if I've moved to how far away from the question that you asked in my expressions here, Frank. But that's the connection with a need to reach out and to know just like you have done Frank, how are people doing, how are people doing, how are they surviving and that one us wanting is black people to know about where, where we are in this world. And what was the experience for you as a, you say black woman as a Caribbean within the black community and the woman or end in America how was your how was your experience in the world of theater in the US. Well, I found myself. And the term that ever may use is the tableau tableau is a very active moment and active scene. And yeah, I resonate with the tableau. I resonate with the tableau. It's like a child in a, in a, in a grade school production in Tableau who can't keep her eyes still. So everything's frozen but I'm like, you know, looking around. Yes, yes, I can see that. Yeah, yeah, I know I'm watching your blog, but what's next. So that's happening, right. Yeah. All right, that's good. That's happening. So how is it for me I'm going to answer as honestly as possible, please. So I am finding myself in a seat of privilege. I'm in Boston, in Massachusetts, one of the more liberal states in the United States. We have a lot of liberties here. We have a lot of privilege here. We have challenges. We are not without challenges. We have challenges. We are also employed at a very culturally responsible institution. At arts Emerson, we are committed to making theater for all, we are committed to putting the world on stage. We are interrogating our history. And within the industry as, as, as people we are questioning ourselves with standing and facing racism. We are an anti racist, anti white supremacist institution. And we know that even being in that position, like that's a tableau, a very difficult tableau to hold at any given time. The leadership that the colleges is led by an African American man, Lee Pelton, the institution is led arts Emerson is led by both an African American man David House and Caucasian American David Dower. And we are facing ourselves and we're facing each other and we're working in the continuum. So for me, I am very privileged and lucky to be where I am. I'm at arts Emerson in Boston in Massachusetts in northeast America on the Atlantic Ocean. I have clouds. I could send you some rain. We have rain, you know, and you know rain is a blessing. So there is, I was shocked at the beginning of the outbreak we left work on March 11. We have been quarantined since March 11. And we would have weekly team meetings at arts Emerson, and in addition to weekly staff phone calls just to see each other's faces. And the first month we just kept saying myself and my colleagues, Susan and Kevin we just kept saying. Wow, we are, we were feeling it but we were feeling it at least I was feeling it in the position of, we have a job. Right, our job is our leadership the leadership of our theater is fighting to keep us all whole. They're not looking at where they can cut and where they can lay off people and where they they've asked us. They have done everything in their power and they are doing everything in their power to keep us whole to keep us whole. So for me as a black person. Sometimes I haven't fallen under that narrative of suffering, but I'm not unaware of that suffering. I'm not unaware of the fact that there are my other colleagues who are not in the position that I'm in. And that that that gives me just a moment to pause, just to hold that. I kept saying to my colleague Kevin Becerra, you know, I felt bad in the first few weeks. So I'm not feeling any pain, because as a black person. We have survived so many apocalypse. You probably heard this from other theater makers who identify as black people in these talks. We have survived so many apocalypses. We're practiced in the art of surviving and moving on from apocalypses. The apocalypse of the middle passage, the apocalypse of being placed and misplaced and replaced on plantations, apartheids, the apartheids across the black world, whether you're dealing with Jim Crowism, or you're dealing with apartheid in South Africa or any any levels of separation and breaking of our bones. It was a part of me that's just like I feel bad that I can't feel this pain because I'm callous when it comes to suffering. There's a lot of calluses I don't feel this. So that was, that's, that's how I was doing for a while. I started reaching out to, to, to Jamaica and to some of our other Caribbean colleagues and hearing and then listening to your series Frank which has been very helpful, very grounding. Very grounding. Then, on top of all of this. I've been concerned about our narrative. On top of all of this where I've started a brand new company inside of this apocalypse. In the last apocalypse was which was the, the crash, the financial systems crashing in oh eight. That's signaled the kind of the decline of our last company up your mighty race. So that company started to, to really struggle, because a lot of the commitments to us as a nonprofit. The first to go with financial commitments so during that apocalypse, I wasn't in this position. And so I know in this apocalypse I'm in this position and I'm like, can't believe I'm here. I'm not suffering this time. I am not suffering I have food to eat close to where, and my dwelling places are intact. Wow. So, what are you going to do next, start a new theater. I said, um, before the, the coven, we, myself and my colleagues, Natasha McNaught and Maggeline F. We were envisioning a production, a theater production company that would create large scale works that would tour. And then this happened and we looked at each other like, okay, that idea is dead. We're not going to be no one's going to pass any mind, every, you know, this is over. And then we looked up again at each other and we said, but what about the stories, what about the narratives, what are they going to say about us. We're going to emerge as a culture as a people outside of after COVID, when everybody is back and whole. And so we said, we're going to keep going we're going to launch a company in the middle of a pandemic where no one can travel and it's going to be international. So, where do we start. And we decided. So, I'm going to speak a little Jamaican here to walk chalk line. Evan is smiling walk chalk line right. My mom always taught me, she said, you know, you need to walk the chalk line, which means she would say port the poor man's children walk the chalk line by themselves the rich man's children walking again. And what that means is she was a poor woman. So she couldn't bail me out the rich man's children can do what they want because he can bail them out so they can be in gangs but you will walk singular you will walk a chocolate. And we've decided that our chocolate is the story and the narrative. And so we're going to hold on to that line. And we're going to walk through this pandemic, and we're going to build our vehicle, our theater, and we are going to make connections. And we're going to hold on to this, this yearning this need to find stories that reflect us as we see ourselves, not in opposition to any other groups, any other cultures. But as we see ourselves, where we're opening our eyes, where we're healing where we're feeling. What is our story. How do we see ourselves. What do we call ourselves. What is ours. What part of Shakespeare is ours or part of this one is ours or part of that one is ours. Who are who are our playwrights. You had the great Woody King junior on about two weeks ago. That talk alone is lesson, because Woody King said it when he said, you know, it was about reflecting back to our people who we were and how theater makes us feel. It makes us feel about ourselves so we decided that pandemic or no pandemic, we still got feelings and we're going to talk about it on the stage. I'm well, I'm skilled, nourished, and I'm ready to, to feed, to serve, and we, and we are Natasha, Magalie, my partners, even a we are ready and we want it we want it we want to know each other. So this is such a great platform that you have here Frank that we can, we can say this and talk to each other. Yeah, actually, I love where you're going I wanted to add something about a discussion happening in Jamaica and you were part of it. A key bar when we're doing the Kingston creative talk that one of the conversations we're having is what's happening to live theater. And I realized that there was some anxiety with theater practitioners, what's happening to live theater because live theater is also our lives. So we look at the art and what we want to do we love being with the audience we love being on stage is nourishes our soul. And there was anxiety persons like, are we saying post COVID is it's more virtual it's less it's less live. So when I keep I was speaking that that came back to me or identity in the space what we identify with as a home in the space and live theater is very important for us. And of course we had to read the discussion we have to look at it and say that's just our fear. And someone said it best I can't remember his name fully which is my lecture of my past lecture which is very bad. He said theater was there before us. Yes, theater will be there. Michael record. Michael record when Mr records said it, I said yes sir, you said it the best and anyone listening right now with that anxiety in your soul wondering what's going to happen. Theatre was there before us. Theatre will be there after us. We're just having a pause right now with us and sometimes we need to look at why we need to pause whether as a country whether as an artist whether as an individual find your why in the pause. Why is I need to really look at certain things business wise, we're growing, I need to be growing in certain ways how can I grow what's the help I need to do my past is also spiritual stuff. There are many healing things I have been doing during Corona looking at how I need to honor me better and how that's leaking into the company as an entrepreneur. I don't have certain issues I need to work through and think that that's not going to affect the company simply put, I'm a workaholic sometimes I don't sleep, and I get very miserable. That's going to affect how I communicate to the stuff simple things like that. So in this pause find your why in your company, and it's kind of for me what I had to work through with Corona. This is weird but I'll be honest. I'll be honest with you failure issues. This is why I felt as if I failed my staff, which is completely rational. It's a pandemic. But I had to work through that. Here it is that you were to do shows and to earn a salary. I hired you for this period, we've been working and it's on my part now. That was hard for me. I almost went in depression because of that. I had to heal through that because I take that very personally why I've worked with persons already who have done shady business. And when I started archivy on the reason why I started archivy was to increase money in my industry increase employment, because we have what I call industry migration. We have persons who study theater, but when you leave school you can't find a job so you go to a next industry because you got to survive. So when I became an entrepreneur, I'm like, hmm, I want to ensure that persons earn. That's what I'm about. And you know, that's something I'm very proud about. I'm about that. You're going to earn less. And then Corona comes and I'm like, oh, okay, all shows are canceled. I can't. Wow. I can't pay. Wow. And that hit me very, very hard to work through that. It took me like a few weeks, but I worked through and I felt better. I mean, I have to say, we got that cast, they're so loving, they're so amazing. Even today I was telling them about the talk and they were like, yeah, they're so amazing. But just to carry it back, during this pause, just figure out what you need to work through. Whether it is that you're growing your company, or you're doing individual work, or you're doing artistic work. Now is that time to look at how can I strengthen my skill because instead of Akiba, I'm skilled. Okay, I'm a director. In this period, how can I keep growing that skill? That's all we have to be looking at. Okay, I'm an actress. In this period, how can I be better? What are my weaknesses as an actor? Oh, I don't listen enough. My nuances. Oh, my beats. You take the time, no one be like, okay, let me look at the script, the tempest. Let me look at beats during this time then. You know, that was my last production. Let me look at that. So now is the time for us to grow. So when the doors are open for theatre and we all as a world can start to be on that stage again, our skills are so sharp. Yeah, you're ready for action. So that's what I want persons to think about. Evernay, as you speak, you make me realize one thing. We're not in the time of famine. For the majority, there are very few countries that are experiencing a famine. We will be fed. We will have food. There are, you know, there's food. There are people who may not have access directly, but there's food. If you put your head out your window and say, I'm hungry, I got to eat and eat breakfast this morning. I am hungry. You're going to get food. You need food, you need proteins, carbohydrates, fats and fiber. You're going to get that. You're going to get some shelter. There's shelter out there. There are opportunities, especially right now. People don't want people on the street. So even if you've got to come outside of your comfort zone and be uncomfortable for a little while, you will have shelter and there's tons of clothes. I have bags of clothes. So we have food clothes and shelter. And you just by you saying now is the time in the pause. And a lot of one of the challenges that that I've had is in the United States is feeling that not having the pause, not taking the beat, not taking the moment, not staying still in the tableau and the teacher said, stay still in the tableau. Don't move your eyes. We're just moving. We're moving to this movement. We're moving to that. We're moving to. You got food clothes and shelter right now while the world is sick. The world has a thermometer under her tongue. We are all sick. Practice your beats. Do some tongue twisters. If you're a producer, find a way to find yourself. Look at your skills. When I heard you speaking about that and skills and what do we practice at any stage? What do we hold on to? What do we perfect? What do we practice? I don't like the word perfect. I thought, well, people got to eat. And then the thought was, ain't nobody hungry? We're not in the time of famine. To my knowledge, maybe there are famines. Insensitive to places in the world where there are famines. Sub-Saharan Africa, perhaps, still is the only place. Lots of heads changed for the good in the world. There are famines happening there and just sending the right level of awareness and positivity to those areas in the world. But in Boston, we don't have a famine. In Kingston, we don't have a famine. We can be fed. In New York, we can be fed. Look around. It's about being aware of what is available to you at this time. Can you start anything? Can you start a business in the time of a pandemic? Can you write a play? Can you choose to view? Can you afford to freeze in the tableau? Well, some people can't. But look at what is available to us. At the beginning of the pandemic, I started, the minute this thing hit, I went to my old friend, Arto, grabbed the theater in its double, and read the first 10 pages, which is where he talks about the plague showing up in Marseille. And interestingly, that whole boat, the ship showing up in Marseille and being turned away, all of that happened. As I was reading it, it was happening in Jamaica. They were turning away the cruise ships with all these Jamaicans who wanted to return home because the borders were closed. I go back and I'm reading through Arto, and you know, you can't just read Arto one time. You've got to read over and over because he's dense. And the moment where he talks about, just going back to what you said, Ebene, about theater before and theater after us, there's a moment in there where the cruise ship that is infected with the plague or believed to be infected with the plague is looking for a new port and the minister, the ombudsman of the old port is, you know, kind of taking some heat for sending the ship away. And then news comes that that ship, the new port accepted the ship, and the plague broke out, and he gets this, and then all pandemonium breaks out, but his port, he had denied the ship from coming in. And he then gets this moment of praise and a lot of conversation around. And Arto says, it is at that moment that the theater begins. You know, it is, it is at that moment that the theater begins in the middle of the morass, essentially, the pandemonium in the middle of the mess and the plumbering marketplace in the middle of the confusion, the tabloid for it is at that moment that the theater begins. And so what is the theater that is beginning now. What do you think, what is it what I think. I throw that to my sister first. What is the beginning now for you in Jamaica. Like I said, we're talking about virtual. I think, honestly, it's going to be new things growing. I'm going to start thinking out of the box. How can I do things different in this space and what is different. So I may not have specific. What is going to be, because I think each person is going to each personal groups are going to burst different things in this space right now that's what I think. And so we'll talk about evolution of theater, the growth of theater. If we look at birth takes stillness as we would say a pause, I mean, whether it's chaos, whatever to create something. And that's what I think is going to happen, whether it's virtual, whatever it is our whole new art form. But let it come forth. No, it's a time for me, Frank and for my colleagues, Natasha and Magalie and for my colleagues at Arts Emerson. The entire team. The theater that begins for us now is a theater of a theater of justice. It is a theater of reparations, reconciliation. It is a theater of sincerity. I don't want to say true. Say sincerity. Every move is a sincere move a sincere action. It is a theater of claiming and forming and writing a new story. And we have an opportunity. I've heard this in the talks and I am going to echo it. We have an opportunity right now to decide. And when I say we I say the we of mankind. What the story is going from here on in moving forward. Frank when when I reached out to you to suggest some speakers for the talk, you were very specific. You said, just make sure it's not male heavy. You're a man. That is the theater of sincerity. That is the theater of the story that you do you intentionally said that it could be women or it could be a male and woman I don't want to talk to male heavy. Because that's that's the theater before the crash. That is not the theater of repair. The theater of repair says that we we pay attention to who's in the room. Who's talking. And that you you you said I don't want to talk to male heavy. Make sure it's not male heavy. Get a, you know, normally, a talk like this would have the, the, the, the people with the highest level of visibility. And so the way the world was before this crash. It's because there was no one to say, make sure it's not this. So that's the theater of now that's the saying, you're not just saying we're diverse and we're going to represent all the voices and just get me get me the hottest people out of Jamaica get me the hottest people out of you said, you were specific. So that's, that's the theater. That's, that's the moment where the theater begins. This is the moment where the theater begins when when when people who have access can be intentional about increasing access for people who don't. That's the theater of now to make sure that all our stories are heard. I hope it's also a theater of empathy that we move forward in the world with empathy, or as we're going to keep on repeating and repeating and repeating. And just it'll be a rehearsal. That's it. Just a rehearsal. Yeah, yeah, it's, it is clear that things have to change and I think perhaps they already have changed. They haven't fully seen it yet. And in Frederic who joined us on Wednesday, who said, you know, mankind was shocked when it found out that the earth is not at the center of that. We actually flying around the sun that were shocked when Darwin said, you know, we are connected to the animals, the monkeys. And we say the climate change will kill us. You know, we have to see that we are part of a system. We have to listen to everyone, the plants, the animals, but also to us, we are no longer ourselves at the center. There are lots of actors. She called that's why she likes science. In theater, there are lots of actors have to pay attention. They might even invisible, not even through a microscope, you can see a virus. And I think that that awareness somehow has has to be reflected, but it's, you know, easily is that you guys both also do do things and produce things and what inspires you when you look at contemporary theater work or performance work. Where do you get inspiration or ideas? Well, for me, I kind of always looking for medicine. So we have commissioned our first piece called the bar girl of Jamaica, and to work that we're developing it's not slated to premiere until 2022. So I mean, as a person in the diaspora is a person who understands just some of the history around the island of Jamaica, and how it impacted the world in general there were moments there are points in the story that I said, Oh, yeah, that's good. That's good. That's remedy. That's not it. That's good. Yeah. So I think you can work with that. I just keep looking for, I feel like I keep looking for ingredients. Like a her woman a bush woman, I'm looking for, for medicine things to draw to draw some kind of tea with or some kind of thing you can post it. I don't know I'm gonna say the word properly but the point is, I'm looking for medicine so when I look at contemporary I, in my generation X or being, I'm looking for something that can heal the open wounds of people who were impacted by the transatlantic slave trade. So I'm looking for things like that. That's what I'm looking for. No matter what who's writing it. If I think I can use that to heal these open wounds, then I'm going to try to make it sound on it and make it get to the people. That's what I'm looking for medicine in the language in the form. Connections to the past and visions and understanding of the now. Yeah, look for medicine. That's everything. I can't count that but I got even deeper. If it's me and especially if I'm writing. I want to say me and me outside of the company and a personal note. I like to look at ways how persons don't give other people choices. I always say we want to have choice but we want to take away choice. I like to let people see those aspects of themself on a stage. To me, I am not like that. And then they see the action and go that feels familiar. I felt like I did that last. I didn't realize I did that. That's the kind of theater I like. I call it the in your face kind of vibes. That's what I call it. And that's what I like to write about and see on a space. That's how we are oppressing each other in our society on an everyday basis. Whether it is race, sexual oppression, whatever it is in every way. And that's what I like to do. I like that. That's what I, and I think for me that's when it comes to my spirit when it comes to my soul. I want to say to show persons how spiritually unaligned they are. Just walking as unaligned people, just oppressing, taking away persons choice, taking away their voice, taking themselves away from them. That's the cruelest thing you can do to an individual. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's quite something. So, Akiba, for you, when, where did you study theater or what did you get your education from? And how was that experience for you in the US? I started studying theater at the Strand Theater in Dorchester, a 1400 seat vaudeville theater, a roadhouse where the, the, the Tyler Perry, David E. Talbert plays would come through, as well as the boys choir of Harlem, and Grover Washington Jr. And at one time it was the Boston stop for Cab Calloway and Duke Ellington. So I started studying theater there as a practitioner and then I went and received some academic training at the University of Massachusetts at Boston, where I was, I was in a very privileged class. We had a gentleman named Lou Roberts who taught me directing and Lou Roberts was from the, that era of New York, working with, you know, in the 50s and the 60s with, with all the greats that doesn't come to the tongue, but it's on my mind right now. And so, for example, Lou, Lou was so severe, man, we had to wear a uniform to class. Wow. A uniform to directing. You know, if you were accepted in his advanced directing class, he had, he had some severe rules about him. And me from Jamaica, I loved it, growing up wearing uniforms all the time. I was like, yeah, I'm going to be serious about this. So from there, so I worked with some, I definitely wasn't a great class at UMass. In that era, there was Diana Almeida and Ron Nash and just some incredible master, master theater makers. And then, from there, I started up, you might erase actually started up you might erase as a Tasha and I started it at UMass as a directed study. And again, it was credit for it and then the community loved it and then we decided to grow the company. And around 2007. I decided that I wanted more training. And I went to La Mama, where I trained in the director symposium with Ellen Stewart and Andre Sherbonne, Yoshi Aida, just some incredible Petar Todorov, some incredible practitioners Eastern European, some folks from the Peterbrook company. And then I went back in 09 and trained with Daniel Banks and the power. I just want to just lift up Daniel Banks for a moment. But Daniel taught us Daniel Daniel open his session by saying, if you are going to do work that impacts young people. You must be close to them. You must listen to what they listen to. You must know what they know you must eat what they eat. You must know hip hop. And it was so he he did a whole session on on hip hop drama, but positioning it outside of the recording industry, and more as a way of life, and a way of life that if we were going to be theater makers and we were going to be pedagogues of the form and we were going to be teaching artists we're going to save the world and all this that we had to come at it. From a very very position. You had to let the form teach you you had to let the people teach you. So the lessons learned from Daniel and Daniel and I remain friends over the years. It took all of that kind of really, you know, stringent academic, you must, you must do this, you must do that. And then it applied it in a way that I think is more, more sincere and more useful, or just as useful. I don't like hierarchy and anything like hierarchy so. Okay, so that's that. And then so you know so my training comes from so the kind of academies or institutions would be the strand theater, you mass Boston, under the leadership of Lou Roberts, may he rest in peace, and, and then la mama under the leadership of the great Ellen Stewart my mama, may she rest in peace I spent a lot of time with mama if you if you've ever been around Ellen Stewart you spent a lot of time with her because she she is the epitome of a sincere being. She was a gift to this world. So that is, that is my training and then my training is every day. You know, so I'm about to do some training in Jamaica, we see what happens. What are you going to do in Jamaica. So we're, we're actually starting with a series. So when we're, we're going to be developing bar girl in Jamaica we're going to do a residency at the University of the West Indies in 2021, 2021, and then linking that residency to a couple theaters in the United States. And then we are more immediately, we're launching a series on August 16, called 10 weeks in Jamaica, a theater conversations from Jamaica to the world. And there we're going to be speaking with practitioners from the legend, the legendary founders, the people who are linked to the legendary little theater movement, the little theater movement just to translate a little bit is similar to the regional theater movement. The little theater movement would be an agilist to the arena stage in the United States. And with it, just to kind of positioning. Very different, but just given my American listeners some, some perspective here. But it was a very intentional movement that was. The little little theater movement, which is a little little theater would movement would be similar to what happened with the off Broadway off off Broadway transition there. And Jamaica's history with theater dates back to the 16th century, where it was the history of the gentrified the plantocracy, the plantocracy, people from Great Britain, the governance, etc. And then, interestingly enough in 1911 George Bernard Shaw visited the country and made statements to the press about, you know, how oppressive the theater scene was in Jamaica and how it, in order to decolonize the country, you needed three things needed an orchestra, and you need a narrative of the people and you needed to proper infrastructure, and he really honed in on narrative of the people which is, you need the play to be about Jamaicans, you need the stories to be about Jamaica. And so, at that 43 years later, the ward theater came online and the ward theater is an opera house of a little bit under 1000 seats, and it was gifted to the country after a big earthquake of great earthquake of 09. And so it is the seminal theater of the country and Shaw visits in 11 and he criticizes the your centricism of the theater scene in Jamaica, and then the ward theater opens and then about 20 or 30 years later the little theater has been opened and you see what they call a racialization or a transition of the narrative of theater in Jamaica. So we, many of those legends are still alive, they're in there, they're octogenarians and they're almost centurions. And what we're looking to do is to start the conversation with these legends, and then we would go on to the playwrights, and then when we go on to the producers and the actors. And people like evanay the next generation leaders so you get to hear more from evanay, and we'll talk to the audience and we'll talk to us. So we're all on how around right you're going to do it on Sundays. Yes, Sunday, 3pm, 3pm. Yeah, what's the start entry. What's the start day. August 16, and it will wrap up on October 18 so it's 10 week we're going to spend, we can't some of us can't physically travel to Jamaica. But we're going to take you there for 10 years. Fantastic. Maybe you make a great book out of it was the interviews and and and I want to plug a great book that already exists by white class Bennett and Hazel Bennett. It's called the Jamaican stage, Jamaican theater. So if you want to know I would say open this great book first. Okay, incredible. Well, but these interviews will be significant and I'm so so happy that you're doing it you know your archive, the presence you archive the history, and it will make an enormous contribution and raise awareness and it's such a great, great place that Jamaica been there and also has a lot to learn I mean a lot still. It's a big contribution I know that the lesbian gay lesbian LGBT community is having a hard time. Yeah, for historical reason but it's good that theater helps with imagination and you can imagine a different present a different future and theater is one of the few things that that really can can be doing that as always and we should talk much longer and again thank you for coming on also on the short notice and and so what advice and you gave already so much but still as a final question both of you. What's the advice for young theater maker what's the advice for our audience. What's the meaning of this time how should we use it. If you have an idea. Okay, for me, going back to honor honor the pause. What's your lesson during this pause this time when you feel as if you can move as you want to also listen during this time. And also, I have to speak to my entrepreneurs because I always love to find ways this is the moment where you pull apart your company. So I call it pull apart and deep find out what is missing, what is needed, and start planning or to put everything together so when Corona has passed. You are strong and ready for action. Yeah. Yeah, I like what you said why the pause right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I say take evidence advice. 100 100% take evidence advice she's she's incredible. And the audience I'm going to say make noise. I need the audience to make a lot of noise, because we theater makers, we are here to amplify your voices. And so we need to hear from you, make noise. Oh, for forget Frank, thank you so much for this I've been watching also your talks with us different persons. And I've been learning so much about theater across the world. I know we've been doing this for Corona but my God I'm learning about structures in countries was going on with their government. Whoa, this is so amazing so thank you for this platform this is questions you're having are so meaningful. Let me tell you. Thank you thank you that that does mean a lot to us and your work is of significance both of you and we care about you and we are behind you and this all the expressions of mankind the utterings that you know to make the noise as I keep I said you know you have a drum, use your drum and use it and dance and be part as the Buddhist say in a joyful participation in the sorrows of life. And I think this is what theater does we are on the site of life. And, and I think we more needed. And what you both are talking about it's very inspiring, I found it's significant and also a tone that the message we normally do not hear so really really thank you both for taking the time. This week comes to a close and next week again we will continue our journey around the globe on the world and you will be the first to hear it I barely just learned it today because we finally come from the next one today we're going to hear from On Monday, Karishma, Buggani and on motor and sit up and on Bali, they will talk about how to perhaps find a way to combine African history American ideas of music and theater and melodrama or musical with storytelling and how they can do it as place both of you said how do we tell our own stories how do we sing. Our own songs and we don't do karaoke, which is never as good at the original, sometimes, very few but sometimes, but sing your own song and on Tuesday we have Emily money and Greg Hill a boast from the indigenous community in Canada. So we're going to hear from them Emily is a great writer player director about how they're doing a Canadian native American indigenous women having a hard time. Still many of them are disappearing there's violence and and also so much hasn't been addressed of the indigenous people of the country who were here. You said Peter was before us. They were before this era came and perhaps the first pipes they smoked around this was the very beginning of American theater and the ceremonies and the dances the sun dances. And it's been overlooked is a significant part of it. Wednesday we go to Japan, Satoko Ishihara young writer very idiosyncratic authentic writer like I work very much as kind of a post post feminism. Writing performance he also she performs her solo performance of strong women. She's a hard time also in Japan we like her very much and others but she also is pushing boundaries she's just transgressions I think it's of importance Nigel Smith that runs the great fleece theater in New York City and how he is going through that he took over from Jim Simpson it was the husband of Johnny Weaver he took over theater that it was not a traditional black theater is a black director. And how does he navigate the world all of a sudden he is in charge of things, and he has to deal with things he has maybe not so much to do is what everybody looks at him as a leader but he's also quiet. And so what's what does that mean and what is he trying to make sense out of this time of Corona and then we have Friday, Jean Globe by Italy he's originally from Belgium a refugee from the camps from World War two and he came to America and had his first great works actually at La Mama with Alan Stewart he wrote the most significant anti Vietnam play America who raw and many other things. It's a successful writer who now moved upstate where you're created shantiga a farm and things one of the things we also have to think about is meditation is, you know, changing ourselves and who's trying to see the world. And so what it is not just through our minds, perhaps to get closer to but also he's quite theater maker is working on the book of the dead and might be even more significant now than before is are we going to hear from someone who spent a lifetime in theater in the lifetime, thinking about it so it will be I think it will be again an interesting week. And thanks to our listeners for staying with us we went a little bit over time but I saw it will need and I keep I really had significant things to say and it's important that they know that people care that people think this is important what you do with a knock knock at the wallet and Bogart said, you know, say, hey, how are you doing in Jamaica, and before you know being in that's important for us for you but also for our listeners and there's something in there but we would even they and I keep us that I will be of significance for you to change your life in an authentic way. We have as both of you said we have to change ourselves and use this pause. The why who are we going to become from as both our guests said today so it is significant it's actually all about us and thanks to how round for hosting us how run from taking on a key bus 10 day journey today. I'm in theater and they living history of it. It's a great company out of Emerson and for everybody who is wondering what significant role education plays, how universities can influence how can connect young artists scholars. I keep a story and if only here you have the proof it's about transferring knowledge and then performing the knowledge and then what do you do with the knowledge and to be taught that you have to do something with it it's not good enough. Because if it would be the librarians would be the smartest people in the world and make the most money, because they have all the books but now you have to do something with an even so most librarians I know are super super smart people and they know and do a lot so it's just a symbolic I said that again thank you all for listening. Thanks to my single teams and young and Andy and how around see Travis and we J. And both of you thank you for coming on our program and have a great force of July do wear a mask. And it does help. This is what we know at the moment things are getting ugly in the States and we have still a very low percentage of only a couple of 123% of people who had this herd immunity would be 70% and that would be devastating they have the number of cases connected to it so let's try to be careful on the safe side and and prepare as both of them said let's prepare what I call TAC the time after Corona so here we go as the great senior Barbara said it was on the program the moment when you shoot an arrow is not the significant moment before and you concentrate you think about your aim. That's the moment and so we are in one of those so thank you all and see you soon. Bye bye.