 So we had the Planet Computer's headquarters. And who are you? I'm Martin Riddiford. I'm the original designer of the Scion Series 5 and actually all the other Scions before it and after it. So this was a fantastic ground-breaking design which sort of set the precedent for trying to combine laptop functions in a handheld device. Which year was that? 1999. Who was it before then actually? 98 I would say. 98, was that one? And there was some even before? Yeah, Series 3. The Series 3 was about 92 or 91. 92, 91? Yeah. And that was the kind of architecture before this. It was called SIBO. And that was a sort of ground-breaking clam shell put it in your pocket type product. That was before the web? More or less, yeah. So what happened? Why are everybody just doing iPhones and stuff? Why is this not the standard? This is what's happening right now. Because here with the Gemini PDA, it could potentially become the next big thing, right? And it's already taking like this thousands and thousands of people very happy with this. Exactly, yeah. So this form factor, at the time we did this, it was a very popular form factor. And we optimized the design of this. So it was just about OK to fit in your pocket. And in those days, fitting in your pocket, mobile devices were quite big. So this was actually quite groundbreaking in terms of what you could fit in your pocket, so the power you could fit into your pocket. But in these days, people wore jackets. And the kind of pocket you were putting it into is an inside jacket pocket. As time moves on, people don't wear suits and things to work, they dress down. And so those pockets disappear. So to a certain extent, things that fit in your pocket or you carry around with you got smaller and smaller. So we got involved in a lot of mobile phone design. Mobile phones got to a point where the maximum dimension on the width was 50 millimeters. And they got thinner and thinner and thinner. And then the curve that they used to have on the front to hold to head got flattened out. So they got squished down into this kind of Mars bar shapely called them. But then the iPhone came along and they rewrote those rules. Obviously, there'd been touch screen devices beforehand. But the iPhone came along and said, well, actually, if you restrict the width to 50 mil, you can't see much on the display. Let's make it a bit bigger. So they started making products bigger and everyone followed suit. And now you can fit a sort of almost a seven inch screen into your pocket. And the bigger the screen, obviously, the more information you can see. What's the inches on this one? That's probably about a six inch screen. Six inch back there, right? Probably maybe five inch. Five and a half inches. And now we have six inch on this one right here. There's six inches on that. But I'm thinking, you know, this is no problem. This should be a whole market of getting as big as you can fit it in a pocket. And it's such an important thing to have a keyboard. It's not a piece of cake to make a nice keyboard, right? No, luckily we've done two or three keyboards before this one. And the engineering manager at Sion and I went out to the Far East to try and find a manufacturer for this keyboard. And we came back and the NRE for the keyboard was incredibly expensive. So the amount of money you had to spend up front to get someone to do your custom keyboard was hundreds of thousands of dollars. So we decided, well, let's design our own. So basically this whole product was made in the UK, designed and made in the UK. The whole keyboard was done in the UK. So we had a factory in North London making these. And we made this in a very different way to the way that keyboards are normally made. So this was made as many keys as possible the same. We used a pick and place machine to stitch these into the keyboard. And then at the end of the line, we laser etched the graphics onto the keys so that we could create any type of keyboard, any kind of language keyboard that we wanted. So that was a unique way of doing it. Normally the legend on the key is pre-but onto the key. And then it has to be put in the right place. We basically made it. You could put the keys in any order you like. And then you put the legend on afterwards. So we took that knowledge and know-how into this project. The trouble is that factories in China have their own ways of doing things. And they didn't do things these ways. So we had to educate them a little bit in terms of how we wanted to do it. But we still haven't got to the position where we've got the flexibility that we'd like. But going forward, if the numbers of these units grow, then we can get much more flexibility in the future. Nice. So I've been loving using the Jimmy PAs on my main phone for the last six, nine months. Yeah. You too? You too? Bizarrely, I'm a creative person. But I draw a lot. So my method of expression is drawing and model making. So I don't actually spend a lot of time doing words. Jim is your main words, man. But I tend to, as I say, just. You don't use it either. But I tend to. So I'm basically pictures and model making. So for me, I use it occasionally. But it's not a main tool for me, if you like. So I don't want to get any secrets about future projects or anything like that. But I think it's so awesome and perfect. But I could fit even 20% bigger or something, an even bigger display. And how about display that could go in the back or something? Is this something that's impossible? It's a possibility. But obviously, all of these things weigh. And LCDs have really come down in terms of thickness. And so they're the weight. And there's obviously flexible LCDs as well, and plastic LCD. So as that technology moves forwards, potentially we can pack more into that lid and put a display on either side, potentially. But it's a technology thing. We have to wait for that technology to be out there. And as we discovered when we sourced this display, we went around. This was 20 years ago. We went around the factory that we were making this display. And it's acres in. Was it sharp or something like that? This was Hitachi. No, actually, it was sharp, yeah. In Japan, yeah. It was originally it, actually, and then went to sharp. So the lines are enormous. And it's basically got glass coming in one end and finished displays coming out the other. If you want to do anything different, you can't. Because basically they have this line, which is going 24 hours a day. And you've just basically got to do something which fits into that line. So we're in the same position here. We're basically taking the best display that we can that'll fit this kind of device, a sort of letterbox display. And we're not Apple. We can't go and commission our own display. We'd love to. And if this genre takes off, who knows? The next one, we might be able to commission our own display because the numbers will be bigger. Big numbers will be so fantastic. Right now, it's already kind of cool numbers. It's pretty great. It's working. Like there's thousands of very happy people. It's amazing. You can do all this with just thousands of people. And maybe just a few years ago, you needed millions. Otherwise, you couldn't do anything. Indeed. That's quite interesting. Yes. So there's these niche manufacturers who are happy to make in smaller volumes. And we've been working with one of them. There's a very patient with us. Obviously, we all want those volumes to go up. And the more publicity we get for this kind of device, and the more, as you say, people say they like using it, the more we'll get out there. So I mean, I'm really impressed with the, you know, basically, I'm spending the whole day looking forward to my next email. Because I really want to just type. I want to just, it's so cool to be able to, when I chat, to not just write short messages, but just write something significant. Or even try to do work with it. And also, I mean, I don't know about you, but when I compose an email, I get the first thing down. And then you basically say, well, actually, I don't. That's not quite what I want to say. I want to cut and paste it around a bit and change it. So I want to spend a little bit of time editing it. To do that on a phone or something is a complete pain. You just can't do it. Whereas, so you end up sending gibberish when you're using a phone. When you're using a device like this, you can properly say what you want to say. So have you shown this to Theresa May or something? I'm joking, a little bit. But we have these Americans, and especially Apple, everybody's following, following, and they're all doing their thing, which is nothing special. Every year is the same thing. It's just a notch now, even a bigger notch. Oh yeah, yeah, I think. It's not very interesting. It's not great for productivity. People are just consuming content, and they're like small chatting, like emoji. It's the emoji culture. So this is the way maybe to potentially move the market towards productivity, and all these smartphones seem more productive. I'm old enough to have seen the computer world move from productivity tools in the workplace. Obviously, there was an offshoot of gaining, but productivity tools in the workplace. And then as soon as the iPhone comes along, essentially, those productivity tools have been left behind, and it's all kind of instant messaging, and instant stuff, and viewing content. The notion of using a device for productivity is sort of gone by the by. So that's what's interesting about this. This is for people who want to do something a little bit better and do work. Yeah, yeah, who are working in the technology business. I'm just guessing here. But I think Apple has reduced global productivity by trillions of dollars, and all that has transferred into Apple's bank accounts. They've been selling a lot of things. That's a nice conspiracy theory. Super overpriced phones. They cost $200 to make. They sell them for $1,000, which is ridiculous. They do cost a bit more than $2,000. Half the price of an iPhone is much better than an iPhone. Yeah, I agree. Well, we need the rest of the world to catch up. So it's very exciting that you're doing this partnership, this working computers all doing all this stuff. Yeah, yeah, no, it's fantastic. I guess it's also fun to just walk around. Anybody in the street, you just show it, and people are like, what? Yeah, yeah. It's a story to tell right there. But interestingly, there's not a struggle. But essentially, the marketing is quite interesting. Because on the one hand, the first story that people want to say is, whoa, look, here's a device 20 years ago, and you've introduced this device again. But actually, the discussion we've been having is that actually, this is a device for the future. So this is all about carrying everything you need with you at all times, and having a whole bunch of different ways of using it. So you're either using it as I am here in my hands. I can take a photograph, just like you can obviously with a smartphone. But I can also use it on the desk, and I can start touch typing. So again, that's not something you can do particularly well with an iPhone. And the screen's facing me, and so I can watch content if I want to, because the screen's facing me. And then I can interface on the outside now and take and receive calls and get messages and things, just without having to open the product. So you've been involved in the new version, the Cosmo, doing the whole new design. Yeah, so there's been quite a lot of discussion here about the balance of these components on the outside. So I'm coming from a kind of purist background. I want this to be really restrained and simple and just have the features that you need to make it work. There are others that want to almost have a whole screen on the outside here. But that's going to be heavy. It's going to be expensive. That could be potentially another version in the future maybe. It can be, but you've still got to have a camera and you've got to have the earpieces and things like that. So we're trying to get the ultimate balance in products here. So we've been working at having a minimal interface, but there's enough information there for you to get notifications and to send and receive phone calls and to pick a number off a list, et cetera. If the hinge starts to flip and all that, it becomes complicated, right? If you want to have a hinge that can flip on itself or go behind. Yeah, there's something we've discovered with these products, and that is the binary nature of it's either closed or open and the fact that it's sprung in both directions means that it's really easy to open it up and you know what angle it's coming to. If this is more like a laptop, you have to sort of prise it open and then you have to set it at the angle. And it's slightly different, and because this wants to shut, it shuts really easily, whereas with a laptop, I would have to fold it shut. So we like this kind of immediacy of the two positions. And when you use it as a sort of pseudo tablet, the angle has got to be flatter anyway because of the touchscreen than most laptops go to. And when you use it on a desk, it's got to be flatter as well because it's closer to you. So to imagine that it's got a screen which is basically going to this angle is sort of missing the point because in your hands that just doesn't work. Would you say it's 80% the speed of a full-size laptop to type on it or 90%? I think on the original scion some tests were done. And people were getting up to that sort of speed with not too much difficulty. I'm totally used to mine. Yeah, you just have to get used to it. The muscle memory is the same. So all the keys are in the right place. It just works. Yeah, exactly. It's great. So that's totally awesome that something different's happening in the smartphone industry. And thanks so much for doing that, for making it happen. Even though people have been waiting for a while now, finally it happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not thanks to Apple. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it's kind of off people's radar, but hopefully we can get it onto people's radar and start building a crusade.