 Well, we're back with the breakfast and our focus is on the Nigerian democratic system as we celebrate democracy day 23 years after what are we looking at exactly? We have Nika Ghoule who's a public affairs analyst who joins the conversation Nika Ghoule. It's good to have you join us this morning All right then now and a bit of it we talk about you know the tenet of democracy Some people say it includes the freedom of assembly association property right freedom of religion speech inclusiveness Equity citizenship consent of the governed Voting rights freedom from unwarranted governmental deprivation of rights to live and liberty and minority Right, I mean the list is almost endless, but I'd like to share your thoughts. How would you describe the Nigerian democratic process system? Thank you very much for the question. I would describe Nigeria's democratic system as a journey and the latest leg of the journey started 23 years ago in 1999 and Progress has been made on the journey up to this moment We are not where we want to be or where we should be but the journey is on and Next year 2023 is going to be very significant in terms of my story It will be a poco because we will have an opportunity to elect a new set of leaders at all levels as part of this journey and I will say that what I am seeing In the Nigerian Populous now is very hard for me I think the sing song on many people's lives now is the PVC and the PVC to me even though Is the P is permanent permanent water skirt? I was I will replace that P with people and power Because that is where our power lies as a people to be part of the democratic process So I see the democratic process to be in full tires So you have the executives the legislative legislative and the judicial answer government But the fourth tire is the people arm of government and for a long time In this democratic journey that fourth tire has been quiet has been docile has been silent But now there is a momentum a wake-up call sort of of that fourth tire, which is the people Coming into the democratic space and I will say Nigeria would be the better for it But but just before we get to the people you already understand that you know Politics actually takes place within the framework. So we're talking about the federal presidential system and a system where you have You know the legislative arm of government. You also have the judiciary and the executive. I like you to you know Go through this now. How would you describe 23 years after and now? How would you describe? You know the executive arm of government. This is the framework. So you have the executive You have the judiciary and you have the legislature. How would you describe? I would analyze the executive arm of government in this way We we have had President of Baxan Joe, Yara Dua, Jonathan Buhari, we have had four Executive presidents in Nigeria since we started this leg of our democratic journey And I will say that the executive arm of government have got a Fade mark In my own assessment and the reason why I give them fame is that the person who started the executive leg of the relay race president Lucia of Baxan Joe I personally think we're unlucky to have him as the first person to begin that relay race because president of Baxan Joe Regardless of what people think or whatever good he would have delivered he damaged our democracy ab initio because democracy tries on setting pillars The first pillar is the rule of law The second pillar is the independence of the legislative and judicial arm of government and of course the fourth pillar is the the application of the auto office and the Constitution in the man in the management of the affairs of states and President of Baxan Joe fade on this count of them It was on the president of Baxan Joe's eight years That the supreme court the highest court in the land We make a judicial pronouncement and then the attorney general Interprets that judgment He has so ever where he wants it and goes ahead to implement it So it was like the attorney general had the the final say in judicial pronouncement that damaged the judiciary It was on the president of Baxan Joe's government that the Legislative arm of government was suppressed was made to become an appendage of the presidency you see Those who fashions the presidential system of government that we are operating now the United States They knew that the executive arm of government is handed humongous powers And when you hand the executive such powers you need the legislative and the judicial arms of government to act as checks as Modulations to those powers. I mean I tell people that this is akin to handing a driver a powerful car With the control of the accelerator But then you give someone else the control of the brake pedal So that when this driver is pushing the accelerator too hard and the car is heading into the bush or Into an accident the person controlling the brake pedder Slams on the brake pedder to slow down the car and give the driver control This is the way it happens that the executive team have the accelerator the judiciary and the Legislature have the Break pedder but what president of us and you did which has been copied by successive presidents to date is that He first and foremost Disabled that brake pedder it made that brake pedder to be irrelevant the brake pedder to be ineffective That brake pedder to just become like his era boys And then he carried on with the official state And that is where we have found ourselves now so President of us and you didn't rule with the rule of law It was only him who we use three or four members of a state legislature and impeach a governor In pitch a governor regardless of the court cases that we're standing against such an action It was presidential but Andrew who we sent soldiers to go and and murder people in Odeon and and it's as it happened in Zakibiam without any judicial process so that Leg of that journey we started with president of us and Joe has affected the executive arm of governments till today and From president of us and Joe we got to president. Yara Dua president Yara Dua Was different because he actually started on a very sound footing He was trying to reverse some of the damage that president of us and you had caused to the executive arm of government Unfortunately, president Yara Dua was in poor health and he couldn't just see those reforms He started on to fruition and he passed away Onto the stage came president Jonathan President Jonathan in my own ranking is somebody who was not prepared for the office for president I think he got there by accident He had these humongous powers, but he didn't even know how to use them I I mean at the end of the day president Jonathan as it was alleged and as evidence showed Was not in control of a face of state Nick Agoulet Nick Agoulet, I mean for the want of time because we're just moving very fast and you know how it can be but Quickly, I like you. I mean there has been for the executive because we're talking about a system Where the Nigerian politics of parades in the framework and if we're looking at the Nigerian democratic system Then we can talk about you know the executive the legislature the judiciary and the people in all of this The question would be where is the people you have mentioned the shortfalls of the executive arm of government during the 1999 Administration democratic government where you had the president of Lushabin Abbas and you're where is the people? I mean, where do you count the people? How how do you also have because you said it's in strata? So you have the you know the executive the legislature and the judiciary and the masses the people Where we're there when all of this was going on but away from that quickly. Can you tell us how you would rate the? Judicial the judiciary and the legislative arm of government, which is a framework where a democratic system thrives Thank you very much for that question before I answer your question I would like to answer your question that the people have been absent majority of the people who go to vote are those who we most likely say their votes The people who we most likely not said their votes have been absent in this process And this is why we are calling on them now that if you are sitting in your fine house In your posh estate in your fine office, and you don't have your voters card You are deceiving yourself that you can do well when that area is not doing well It is better. You step forward now get your voters card with registration ending in the next 16 days So that you can come into the process You cannot allow the orchids the area boys the okada riders to be elected leaders for you And then you will not be on WhatsApp and social media complaining for the next four years Now coming to the Legislative but this person's an I gerians. I mean everyone is exercising the right So also, I mean just a cotton Having a PVC does not translate into votes. You know, you can have a PVC does not mean that You have casted your vote or You're going to cast your vote. We are very correct. So this thing is in stages Stage one now is that we are campaigning for these people to go and get their PVC's Because if you don't have your PVC, you cannot step out to vote And you will notice that from the first of July after the close of the voters register The messages will not begin to be targeted at those who have PVC's that in February March next year You must come out and make your voices heard Otherwise, we're going to get another set of bad leaders that we are going to complain and suffer with for the next four years So now the the the target the focus is on get that PVC And then from there we're going to be talking about how to use it Now coming to The the legislative arm of government the legislative arm of government picking off from where President Obama's and Joe started us off started us on in 1999 Have been in the pockets of the executives. What are the executives at the federal state or local government? You will see that for every president and governor since President Obama's and Joe The first thing they want to do is they want to Install the leader of the legislative So that once they do that have been given powers in the constitution to remove a sitting executive Who is recalcitrant who is not delivering good governance and the Legislative arm of government in Nigeria at all levels have been muted. They have not exercised their powers The the the executives routinely ignore them and any attempt sometimes for the legislative and more government to even Exorcise their constitutional powers You see big and age from the executive arm of government like locking up the Houses of assembly or the National Assembly beating up register chasing them all over the place and these are the kind of things that must up You know when we come to the judicial arm of government this arm of government Which is said to be the last hope of the common man used to be very good But with time and especially with what has happened in this democratic dispensation coming forward This arm of government have also joined the executive and the judicial arms to be very corrupt The you see strange judgments now being given by the judicial arm of government Because they have discovered probably that they were being left out of the party and they want to join the party So judgments in Nigeria now are seeming to be for the highest bidder because you cannot understand some of the judgments that this Judicial arm of government is given but in all of this The people are the ones that hold the power. You see the Constitution is very critical the Constitution provides the people the power to recall that is Pitch the legislative arm of government So if an executive arm of government is holding the legislature whole stage the people Must put pressure on that legislature to do their job and if they don't want to do their job Then the people should touch the recall process of the legislators I can assure you that this current national assembly that we have that seems to be like puppets if there is a recall proceeding in 109 senatorial districts in 360 federal constituencies to recall these members of national assembly who have refused to do their job I can assure you that something dramatic will happen in that national assembly And the same holds true for the state So again, we're talking about the people the people need to understand their rights The people need to know that they have the power and we shouldn't you'll be on the sideline complaining winging and whining But we should actually step into the political process take our rifle a seat and drive this process forward But let's get to this one. It's been 23 years. I mean after on uninterrupted Democratic process and some people are still saying that it is no longer nascent But constantly we hear the president and you know the elites the ruling class saying It's a nascent democracy. We're gradually getting there. At what point do we say that hey, we're ripe for this Now we're not agree that our democracy is nascent after 23 years. You mean the American democracy that is 200 years 23 years is 10% of that So we we wish you by now have developed this demo See to a point where it will be thriving It will be delivering Prosperity to Nigeria's it will be delivering good governance to Nigeria's but we have not got to that point yet We are still at the point where People are coming into political office not with the intention of serving the people of Giving good governance for the people. We're more like a business where they're coming in to make money That money legitimately, but no make that money by looting the treasury But bringing me grant looting schemes like few subsidy foreign exchange subsidy electricity subsidy those kind of schemes were trillions of Naira of Nigeria's money is Being looted and unaccounted for so that is where we are that 23 years now 23 years is a long long time 23 years is a quarter of a person who will leave a hundred years And you cannot say a quarter of a lifetime of a person should be thrown away and we're still calling it nascent We're calling it nascent because we haven't done what we needed to do now All that has happened in the past is gone is history What is left for us now is for the future? How are we going to correct this? How are we going to build our democracy and make it strong? Why are we going to build strong institutions so that we are no longer looking at strong individuals? Nobody should be looking at We should be looking at the the police we should be looking at the Head care systems we should be looking at the military Institution we should be looking at the judicial institutions. We should be looking at those institutions Align those institutions to do their work For instance, you have cases like a crime has been committed and then you hear president Audrey the the chief of defense staff and the service chiefs or the inspector general police to go and do a Bnc that should not be Once something happens the institution that are responsible for that. They should just get on with their work They don't have to be acting as Senior special assistance to the president They should they should not be acting as if they are an appendage of the presidency. Okay. They are an institution Yes, well, so so the entire essence of democracy day seemed to be hinged on the 1993 Naldi and all the elections and Basically, do you think that we have lent any lessons? And what does that really mean that Prior to this time you remember that you know May 29 has always been a democracy day for Nigerians But of course, it's been moved by the president 2018, you know to June the 12th, and it feels like it's hinged on that election that happened in 1993 Free fair and credible elections. What are your thoughts? I will answer this in two halves on the positive side. I will say yes We have planned our lessons because for 23 years now. We have kept the military in the barracks And we have had civilians to pretend over their face of Nigeria And we have had transition From Ubersa new to Yardua to Jonathan to we have had four transitions And we have even had the transition of the sitting president to His opponent So on that count, I will say that yes, we have learned lessons but then on the Content of free fair and credible elections I will say that we have not learned much lessons from from that one Because the first two or three electoral cycles in Nigeria were all a sham in fact president Yardua When he was elected in 2007, he he confirmed that he knows that the process that brought him into office Was a sham and he he promised that he was going to embark on electoral reforms You know, so on that basis we have not been having credibility in our elections but I have very firm faith in the 2022 electoral law I think the 2022 electoral law with Mechanisms like the electronic transmission of results is going to be very key in strengthening The independent national electoral commission And making our elections to be very difficult to rig You know, and that is what is going to engender confidence in Nigeria's especially the elite class The educated Working-class ones who have switched off from the electoral process leaving only those who go to say their votes to be part of the process Eat we engender confidence in them and bring them to the ballot I'm just quickly just in just in one minute the quality of candidates will be different Niko Goulet, I mean I'm being prompted to move away That's because we have to go with exhaust at a time right here on this one But just a quick one because we're talking about the Nigerian democratic system And we're also celebrating democracy on interrupt at 23 years and where we are right now Now a big question has always been if you look at all the african country that seem to be you know, cool Counter cool activities thriving and then you ask what's going on. Nigeria's big brother of africa And people who have constantly said how democracy has nothing to write him about Do you think that you know having the worst form of democracy and having you know, a military rule is something that we should consider Military rule should never be considered at all Because I personally believe that the military Are a huge cost of the problems that we face in Nigeria today Because the first thing the military doing they come into office to suspend the constitution And any country that is not being wrong with the rule of law is not going to make progress And the other thing is that these schools are happening Sway in Africa because the politicians are giving the soldiers the reason for that And that is why in Nigeria, we need to be careful There's the politicians need to deliver good governor so that they can continue to keep the military in the barracks Thank you so much. Niko Goulet We have to let you go. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts You have raised very strong and resilient points right here this morning as Nigerians actually celebrate 23 years of civil rule We look forward to sharing more of your thoughts And the costs of the show Thank you very much. Mr. I hope you have your vote as card. I have mine. Why not? I will show you at the next program That's okay. Many thanks for being part of this year. I mean the conversation right here It's important that you get your pvcs because I mean elections are not won by What of martin twits they're won by numbers and so go out there get your pvc And be sure to go out and cast your vote for your favorite candidate That's the size of a conversation this morning when we return it will be time for us to look at another You know major concern. We're looking at the AKT state elections and you know the debate that just happened Looking at these candidates and the capacity competence matching that with your switch stay with us