 Cody this dude has been there from the beginning of an organization that has done one billion in annuity sales in one month Yeah back in April. That's insane. I like a lot of people that I'm sure listen to then maybe you guys I don't know I started off as a glorified telemarketer out of college, right? So hopped into a cubicle got paid 28 grand a year was asked to dial 100 or 150 times a day manually But those early days I like a lot of us There was a lot of hustle a lot of phone calls trying to feel your way in the space of what the what the 8% do differently And then what the 8% need? Right to be a successful long-term a lot more to build the business than where that next lead is coming from I've been surrounded by a lot of people that have always thought extremely short term You know or we're just trained that way by a lot of the companies out there And I feel like our industry's shipped into maybe a little more of a long-term Consultative approach and really it's for that type of individual It doesn't want to just have to sell the same policy every day forever You are listening to the 8% Nation podcast created to help you become a top producer in the insurance industry Enjoy the show Welcome welcome welcome to the 8% Nation podcast Cody. We're here again this time. We have Matt Newman He is a baller baller baller baller in the nudie space. I have heard so many things about you I'm so excited to unpack your story and get to know you Thank you so much for joining us Matt. Yeah, thank you guys appreciate you have me dude We have we have a couple mutual friends But really what we'd like to do is really just kind of unpack your journey a little bit So let me just provide a little bit of framework Cody this dude has been there from the beginning of an organization that has done one billion in In annuity sales in one month. Yeah back in April. That's insane. That's with a B not an M a B He's been there from the beginning. Yeah He's gonna unpack that journey that story and I cannot wait to hear this because I don't think we've had anybody with a Billion type of sales behind their name. No, and he mentioned something earlier was really neat He's he's he said he's been doing this for you know He's been a part of them for 15 years and I'm like dude. What do you start when you're 15? You know and it's the same thing with you Cody man. Come on back and forth two ways You did start in the thing when he was 12. So we're all good. That's right. That's exactly right Well, Matt, so we would love to just kind of you saw us from the beginning, okay? I mean go getting to a billion annuity sales in one month has to be a wild ride of ups and downs Why don't you just kind of unpack your story a little bit for us if you can? Sure, so the firm that I'm with is advisors excel and we're out at the peak of Kansas Can't get any more Midwest and Heartland than where we're at, right? But our firm has about 700 employees underneath our roof and We work with 700 of the top producing independent financial advisors in the United States So our reach is nationwide and the people that we work with our very large asset gatherers So not so much annuities and we can speak to some of the annuity part here annuities are a bread and butter to our firm But our people are doing a lot of direct response marketing and they're gathering assets, right? They're typically selling to a plan and helping people who are retired or looking to retire pre retirees and Again with that direct response marketing They're bringing in those clients and then our firm in here our 700 employees There's a lot of different things that we do but from a from a product vertical standpoint its annuities its life its assets under management It's a broker dealer and it's also Medicare supplements. So we've got five verticals that are underneath here Our firm is technically a wholesaler. So we're gonna make a middleman fee Anytime those 700 advisors place clients business into those products, whatever they might be but So the financial advisor isn't paying us guys, but they are hiring us They do need to use us. So all of our services are catering to the financial advisor It's a little bit about the footprint. We're completely independent not owned by anybody. No private equity. No venture capital We have two independent founders guys are only 43 years old. They launched this when they were 28 So we've been going at it for quite a little while and it was fun back in those early days 2005 and six when just a few of us like I'm sure we've all experienced in the startup days With used cubicles and riding your bike to work and wearing hoodies every day and you know, just kind of that whole that whole That whole run but it's fun It's kind of grown one year at a time to the point where now there's a lot of business that comes through here We can talk about the annuity side, but yeah, we achieved a landmark a couple months ago With those 700 advisors doing business into all those different verticals But in that annuity one which is a primary one inside here just in the month of April alone There was little over one billion dollars of client premium that got submitted in the month. So crazy guys That is incredible. So awesome Dude, I would love to rewind the clock and we want to hear your personal story as much as possible So just to cast a little bit of vision, you know a percent nation's Cody's brand everybody that's listening This probably knows about that or really our goal is to help insurance agents succeed And be a part of the 8% right so once upon a time You're a 23 year old man that was trying to make your way. How did you get into the space? What was the choice because that was back whenever, you know, this whole business wasn't that cool and sexy, you know It's kind of like, you know We all walked past the insurance booths at the recruiting like a lot of people that I'm sure listening Maybe you guys I don't know I started off as a glorified telemarketer out of college, right? So hopped into a cubicle got paid 28 grand a year was asked to dial 100 or 150 times a day manually, right and Back then was working for a firm that did the same thing. We were an annuity wholesaler But in the space we can be called an IMO or an FMO an independent marketing organization or field marketing organization and got in making a lot of dials and talking to a lot of insurance Agents and starting to get a pulse like we all did first couple years out of school of what that world really feels like What it is that the hundred percent out there do differently and the 92 and the eight, right? Who succeeds why they succeed what sort of services and value they're looking for out of partners and Did that for a couple of years work my way up the ranks a little bit got to know some people like everybody that makes it I think in the 8% hustles might puts the time in continues to do what it what needs to be done and Put me in a position just a couple years out of school to win this firm advisors Excel launch to be fortunate To be the first guy in the door and did the same thing right the same startup stories So we got in there and hustled continued to work with financial advisors and the difference in our firm here compared to a lot of other ones Out there Cody and Landon are we have taken an approach where we are working with in your language with that 8% So our firm today works with the most successful ones and shows them how to pour fuel on that fire right speaks into them with marketing and sales language product leadership tech Organizational help really takes a full consultative approach that 8% continues to build the business with them But those early days back to your question Landon like a lot of us. It was a lot of hustle a lot of phone calls Trying to feel your way in the space of what the what the 8% do differently and then what the 8% need Right to be a successful long-term. Well, what what in your opinion is that? What are the 8% do differently in your opinion? I mean you're no one knows better new man I don't know about that. I think there's a lot of people that I would love to learn from and know better than me But what do they do differently? I would say first and foremost they they view themselves as business owners Yep, as much as they do salespeople big right and so we see a big differentiation on People that are good at sales and don't get me wrong sales has a place and there's a lot of very successful sales people out there but in that world it's still a lot of one sale at a time maybe a Hunter versus a farmer mentality right always picking one sale off at a time or the lowest hanging fruit And then on to the next one right and so a lot of Perspectives or pit sheets or illustrations or brochures as opposed to really saying what I want this thing to look like 36 months from now. Wow, what am I really chasing towards 60 months from now? And that it's a business owner mentality, right? Yeah, it's making sure that people see where they're going and they can build into that instead of just one sale at Time so a little bit more of a long-term vision. We see that as I see that is probably one of the one of the first differentiation points You know that less of a policy peddler and more of a hey, I want to build something special here, you know Yes, sir. That's awesome. There's something long term. Yeah Maybe recurring revenue having some thoughts around culture having some thoughts around staffing and award charts Yeah, right a lot more to build in the business than where that next lead is coming from I see I see a shift in our industry a little bit to where not only is it getting a little younger You know with a lot of guys like us, but but it's also It's also shifting to people that are that are thinking like I feel like In the journey I've been in it's been a lot of I've been surrounded by a lot of people that have always thought extremely short term You know or we're just trained that way by a lot of the companies out there And I feel like our industry shift into a little more of a long-term Consultative approach where they are becoming a business owner. They are building a team They're you know, it's it's a just a different approach that They don't I mean really it's for that type of individual that doesn't want to just have to sell the same policy every day forever, you know, you know, yeah, Cody, I love your perspective because at the At the end of the day like if we are gonna rely on the companies or the carriers to train us Nothing against there are great partners. Yeah, I'm not sitting here speaking ill against them But what do they want you to do? They want you to sell more policies. Yeah, right? Every everybody has their own motives of where they're coming from, right? So it takes an individual to think a little bit bigger than that And I think a holistically about what they need to be building in their practice and not just in their own practice But thinking holistically about what that client needs, right? Do you want to be one person that sells one policy that lands in one drawer of that person in the rolodex of 30? Right. Oh, yeah, what was that guy's name and I'm trying to find them on my iPhone Right as opposed to the person that sold them their plan the person that takes care of them Yeah, right There's a very big difference between somebody that that takes care of a retirement plan or a financial plan Compared to a product or a prospectus So yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly well and one of the we're you know We're fortunate enough to be able to work with advisors excel on some Medicare Project yeah, and you know, I know you guys are rolling out a Medicare sort of arm That's relatively new and what I'm learning in the industry Is really the Medicare if you can serve the Medicare client and help them people work with the people that educate them and be that person that? Helps them navigate their Medicare policy Well, you pretty much have first whack at the other stuff the annuity business the retirement planning etc Is that what you guys have seen too? Well, I can't I don't want to speak out of line to the Medicare division that we've launched in here because I Know enough to be dangerous. Okay, but what I can say is with a newly launched division here We've found that plenty of the financial advisors that we were already coaching and building on the other product lines Already had Medicare supplement inside of their practice. It was already a piece of what they were doing And I think it's a matter of which piece comes first because because what we're starting to find is That there are plenty of ways that you can open the door with Medicare supplements, right? You guys know this as well as I do probably better than I do just tremendous door opener Yeah, right and then at that point in time you can sell them a policy for a few hundred bucks or If you're good at what you do you can then dovetail that into a bigger conversation, right? How does this then affect your total? Income your total expenses your total liabilities. There's a lot better ways in sales language to say that Yes, but in in practice, that's what it would look like and that's what we're finding are the people that are through here Are using it within their office whether it's the the main entrepreneur the main advisor in the office Or maybe they have a staff of three or four or some of the big ones 15 or 20 in that office And somebody in there is using this of the door opener that didn't roll it into more holistic planning We can help you with that one thing but here is something that we offer all of our clients Would you be open to taking a look at that look at that? Yeah, for sure I mean, I know we work we've worked with some of your agents with before we even worked with advisors excel And they were telling me that they were like falling into four hundred thousand dollar nudie, you know Projects just because they were just Anybody listening all you gotta do is sign up with us. You just fall in. That's what he literally said He's like yes. Well, I will practice scratch that for compliance. He said He said I had a million dollar goal for 2020 and I hit it in three months His way told me like it's I know what I was doing But I knew enough to know to be dangerous and I felt confident start to bring up the conversation Wouldn't you know like I was able to serve because it did such a good job on what they're needing right now Then there was an open door for that conversation. So yes, sir There's one other thing as you say that Landon and it goes back to the question that you asked before as well about what the 8% do a little bit differently or might do that separate themselves out and what I've found is maybe it's I would guess It's probably the person that you're speaking to but I find it across all the offices that I coach in here Is it they are very eager to learn what other people on that 8% are doing? Yeah, right? Yeah And I think that's that's just a trait that we can talk about across success principles in any line of work that you are I've got three young boys right my boys right now are 10 7 and 3 and in some way shape or form some of the conversations that I have with my boys are You are the people you surround yourself with right? We all know that you're the average of the five people you spend the most time around We try to take that exact same principle move it into this financial field where if you are gathering Let's say in that in that world that you just said they're Landon So I want to be a million-dollar producer Okay, we would say that if you're not there The quickest way to get there is to surround yourself with as many million-dollar producers as possible learn with them Be shoulder-to-shoulder with them network with them and then take all that stuff that they're doing and then be smart Enough as a business owner to go back into your office and decide what you want to steal what you want to pirate Right and take it tweak it make it your own But you know there's very few original ideas out there. We've all stolen everything from everybody else Right, so go and find the people that are where you want to be take the stuff from them And we've tried to really foster that community That's that's been one of our secret secrets to our success inside advisors excel is setting up a huge network Mastermind collective type of environment where people learn from other successful people and then when they're asked to pay back into the model It's a bit of a badge of honor because they've learned throughout that system So yeah, exactly right to what you were saying Landon, but yeah, that's I mean, that's obviously the core of our brand, right? Totally, that's what that's my favorite part of a percent nation is the networking events I mean the speakers are fantastic and hopefully, you know, we see some people from advisors excel there But really it's just getting around people and I know one taught me better than you We're from Springfield, Missouri a little small town and I had always heard that all the business books talk about that But I saw it in action I started hanging out with with Cody's network and then now we're hitting here on a podcast with dudes that are doing Numbers of billions, you know, I mean and there's just something that comes along with the mindset of just hanging around that individual That just kind of it's like to me it ignites the competition It's like it really I'm like motivated by that not because I want to beat them But because I want to like I want people that I can sprint with you know There's not a lot of people that are out there that we can get shoulder to shoulder and run, you know So I appreciate you saying you said it. Well, it's not just the tactics It's not just the resources that you're gonna go steal and and use back in your office. It's it really is Recalculating remanufacturing the mindset. Yeah, right of what is possible You're sitting next to somebody at that event and maybe in a Joking way, but kind of not you're thinking to yourself that person did what yeah, like how is that possible? Like they've got nothing that I don't have so all I got to do is figure out how to put a couple of these pieces of the puzzle together And I got this so it just starts to maybe reframe your reality or what's possible out there Yeah, you talked a lot about We we we seem to have a lot in common without even realizing it because a lot of the stuff. You've already said like mindset goals Thinking bigger, you know building a business, you know heaven and staff like all the stuff You've said like we talk a lot about you know Like we have think big out in huge letters by the front door, you know something you said a few minutes ago Say there's a new agent out there That is getting into some of these spaces that's that's really struggling They're like I'm on my own, you know, how can I really get to wherever actually own a business versus just being a rep, you know What kind of mindset or tips or advice would you give to that individual as they're watching right now because we probably got a lot of those type of individuals, you know Newer been in a few years, you know, but haven't been it. They're not extremely experienced yet my answer here for that that person will be different than Five years down the road or once they've built traction There's got to be some sort of model out there that they can find momentum in stealing what other people who are successful have done Right at the beginning. I'm a firm believer that it truly is Without this sounding too crass or crude but a paint-by-number approach We've got to go find somebody and emulate what they're doing. Yeah, right That could be emulating them from a marketing standpoint. How are they getting need and need with people or Emulating them from what's being said in that client interaction or what sort of Presentation is being shown, but we have to be able to emulate it because in that stage. We don't know what we don't know Right. There's no idea for us to know if we're doing this right or if we're doing it wrong There's no sounding board. There's no resource that I can go to right. I believe that that's I Firmly believe that's the answer when you're getting to your first couple stratosphere is a success the first couple levels on the pyramid and It may end up being Absorbing what you can from one or two people within a network or a mentorship or something at one of your events And then moving on to another one and another one because you don't always want to stay stale with the same thing all the time But eventually Eventually down the road that that answer changes because you've built your model Like you can own it. This is mine. This is how I market This is what my marketing plan looks like This is how we present to clients in a first meeting in a second meeting in the plan that we put in front of them Right. This is how we have due diligence in the products that we recommend And then you can steal things from other people and bring it into your model You don't have to change who you are when you bring it into your model But it's different at the beginning at the beginning there has to be a model that you can trust in Right. So going and finding somebody would be would be my suggestion in that position Well, since you guys are only working with the top echelon Of individuals and kind of like it's all like we you choose to work with those individuals How would you expect? How would you recommend? That new agent to go find that person without because there's a lot of snake oil, man There's a lot of people that you shouldn't be trusting and there's a lot of people that are complete waste of time and Posturing something that they are completely not and I put it on Facebook. It must be true Cody I did a billion dollars in sales last month, you know, I put it on face I was hoping we weren't gonna get on here and you guys weren't like hopping out of Ferrari and you know Off the private jet landing strip or something. Yes. Yes. No, I still want the jet I don't really care for the Ferrari. I do still want the jet at some point, you know But but I won't jump off just to do a podcast or do a podcast on it, you know, I don't think But I'm sorry There's a lot of smoke and mirrors there's a lot of like Posturing going on with someone that just wants to recruit and get in getting we I'm sure you get it a lot people want to get in our Backpacks and I'm sick of that and we want to not allow we don't want to encourage our agents to jump in someone else's You know just really just kind of take advantage like get taken advantage of for their hustle So what's a question that you feel like they should be asking their mentor or what's a Yeah, yeah, I think I know we're going with that Planet so I would be leery of anybody recruiting me if I'm being honest, you know because I think there's a lot of situations that you see where It is more this is probably too too crude of language But like it is a bit of a pyramid scheme where that the whole organization is built more on making money off of other people Versus servicing and taking care of clients Right. There's a gentleman who is getting ready to join our firm to become one of our clients And he's coming out of a model like that and it is definitely Needing to shift his mindset on what success looks like on what you can control so to go back I I would I would just be a bit leery Any time somebody is recruiting me if I can take the offensive though if I can see somebody else that I would like to emulate And I can find a way to work for free or I can find a way to partner up with them In a way that's non-intrusive to them Right and we can typically tell by how the people are structured and what sort of organization They're with if we dig in just a little bit, you know, what sort of value they can bring now I'm biased. I'm biased here because I work with independent advisors. I work with entrepreneurs So that's not to say that there are not there are Plenty of incredible people out there with the Merrill's and the Morgan's and the Northwestern's of the world Sure, right, but those aren't the people that we work with people we work with are the independence So if I see an independent that has hung their shingle that is successful It might have a couple people on staff that I can see out there marketing whether it's digitally or over the radio or TV or whatever It is I would then step into taking the offensive approach of going and trying to position myself next to them and finding if there's a way That I can learn from them So it might just be more about the tactic of how I would approach instead of sitting back and hearing somebody else's sales pitch About why I need to be working with them. Yeah, and that puts you in control I mean really like, you know, I never thought of it like that. Honestly until he said that No, that's yeah, that's that's very unique as opposed to taking the best deal that comes your way Go ahead and make the best deal make it. There's no I mean you you've got what it takes go make it There's plenty of people out there that you know all three of us everybody who's listening to this thing could go find people That's the next level up on whatever that success ladder looks like it could be an income thing or it could be an assets Gathered thing that could be a lifestyle balance thing or it could be a Secession plan thing there are people that always are where we want to go. So let's go get them There's nothing inside of us, you know That we can't that we don't already have to go make that happen I just need to know a few tricks of the trade or a few tactics on how they got there. That's it I mean, that's how uh, that's that's how Russell Brunson got started in in what he's doing He spoke at 10x2 and he was like, you know, if you want to sell Vegetable oil online, you know or whatever, right? I think he was talking about he talks about something else You know in his in his little keynote speech. He's like dude go find someone who's doing it Study them even by their product, you know, so you know all the details and then Mimic the model that's working, you know, and you've literally said a lot of the exact same stuff And we've done it here, you know, we hired a YouTube coach. We've hired up hired business coaches You know, I pay to go to events and masterminds and stuff because I like you and a lot of other agents out You know, I want to learn and and it always pays off. You always I always get a return when I do stuff like that Yeah, I mean and I feel also feel like to if you if you're around the right people Wisdom just like falls off these people and you can just like I'll be like some people I respect that have been doing it for a while I'll just get listening and like they're just casually like talking about how they hire somebody. I'm like, you know Totally changes the way I approach recruiting or you know or something, you know, I'm saying so that like pause Can I buy you one more drink and you can slow down and say that again? Exactly. Exactly. Yes So what what sort of um, you know, what okay? So you you I guess I take you found that individual mimic them and so walk me through Sort of okay your first five years in the business then what I mean how because you obviously didn't start doing I Find that I can hit a certain level and then maybe kind of hit a glass ceiling How did you kind of get past that initial success? Okay six-figure earner plus plus then to become a whole on on the next level Because that's a different mindset. Sure. I would agree. It goes. I'm a I'm a pretty Organizational driven person. I'm a fairly detailed person. I can think through org charts and job descriptions and Job responsibilities fairly clearly. It's just a strength of mine. I've always had and it was building into a team So I was a solo entrepreneur for our first four years here doing everything for everybody okay, and It's while our company was getting off the ground and it's while we were trying to find our way and That entire time then it became how do I get my first person in here with me? The very first person because I can only put so many hours in right. We've all been there Yeah, only so many hours. I can put in only so much work that I can do So what does that look like when that person comes in and most of the time? It's pretty sloppy Right when that first person comes in it's not going to be clean. You can't expect it to be clean Right, but we if we can have open communication and we can have respect of the person we brought in We'll figure this out. Yeah, and so I'll hire for the the person I'll hire for somebody that I can trust and I I'll hire for somebody It's got a strong work ethic The job description itself like the skills the proficient skills I'm not overly worried about if I can trust them if I know they're gonna work hard. They're the right person Let's bring them in we'll figure this out and from there Then it was taking whatever my lowest revenue generating activities were and getting them onto another plate Yeah, right to free up, you know to free up whatever those higher producing activities are and then Literally doing that for the first Three people that I hired onto my team. So here inside the office. I've got we've got a huddle of 10 So I've got nine that I'm I'm blessed to lead every day And that's how the first three or four were hired it continued to be what skill sets Can we bring into the team and where can we all continue to ratchet up our our highest revenue producing activities? But it's going to be sloppy. I mean, you don't know what you're doing So as long as you can trust the people and have communication you You'll figure it out. So what was the what was the first job description you hired? Was it like an assistant office assistant or what? Yeah, our term inside here is a relationship manager. So what it was is everything reactive So it was phone calls emails Anything that was coming in that needed an immediate response from us our clients are the financial advisors So it's when the financial advisors need something right or there was a company that that Issued a policy wrong or screwed up a commission or they needed an illustration or whatever it is And and those things would always take a lot of time or I would hang up a telephone call And there was a lot of follow-up items that needed to happen after that the action item list, right? So it's all the reactive stuff. So really then I could stay Like probably a lot of people here is as face to face as close to our clients as possible whether that's in person Or over the phone or whatever that looks like just as much face time as I can get is where Typically most people in this industry make their highest income So how can I stay as face to face as most often then the first the first hire though to answer directly landed was Reactive services. So getting it as and I actually believe that was the first two hires So it was all the reactive stuff trying to get it off as much as possible right on The other part about that is there are some people. Sorry real quick. There are some people that love that stuff That's what I found and again. I'm still relatively young, but now I was really I mean I was 27 28 years old at that time and The thought had never occurred to me in my ignorant world back then that some people actually like doing that stuff Yeah, you know what I mean? I mean they would come in and they would be smiling ear to ear And there would be as we're figuring this out There would be some times that they would be on the phone In a sales situation almost in tears You know what I mean and I'm sitting here thinking like what it like You can't have that conversation with somebody, but you'll go and run these excel spreadsheets for the next half hour Right where I want to pull my hair out, but we're all wired different so we can find those people then everybody's happy We're all smiling. That's exactly right. That's good. Um, do you mind can I ask you another question? I'm like, yeah, man. Um, I'm learning more. I don't care if we even release this I've got a ton of value already So okay, so talk me a little bit about what you know about marketing You you can't do a billion dollars in sales in one month without getting into marketing I'd love to for you to unpack a little bit about your guys's as much as you can. That's not proprietary. Just stay as high level as you want Uh, what's your marketing? Like not specifically media spin, but but how do you approach what's your marketing sort of mantra if you will Sure So, uh, I feel like I need to preface this and an answer to try to give you you and your listeners as much Value as possible because our marketing mantra our firm if you think of it as us as a large consulting agency Um, our marketing approach to go find our clients who are the financial advisors is different Right, so you know some of that is digital A lot of that is referral about half of our business or half of our new clients now come by way of referral Which I think is a byproduct of client experience. Yeah And retention rate is very high So if you've got more coming in the front door and very leaving the very few leaving out the back door You're typically going to have good success But I don't know if that model would probably or that answer would give you the most value that because the success that that billion dollars that month Um, and for the and for the year it's seven or eight billion a year that we're seeing in just the annuity vertical that's coming into our office Um, that is a byproduct of the financial advisors out there doing marketing into their marketplace Right, that's a little bit more probably of most of the people that you're listening to and what I would say is there is Pretty much every piece of marketing that these financial advisors are doing in their local communities around the united states Um has branding as a secondary piece to it Right. We're not looking to brand. We're not looking to throw. I don't know how much money I had a conversation uh today before I got on this podcast with you was somebody somebody out of denver They're being positioned by somebody to go do a bunch of youtube clips and then to get them promoted Uh through facebook and there's nothing wrong with the strategy If that's right for your business, but for most people There's no way this financial advisor I was visiting with should go drop $3,000 or $4,000 a month to brand on youtube Come on. Yeah, I mean so what we need is we need direct call to action. Yeah We we need uh direct response marketing So I need to send out a mail piece with an enticing enough offer to get them to respond Either for what it is that i'm offering or to show up at an event Right, but I need direct response same thing if i'm going to do Facebook ads I need direct response into something Right, if i'm going to do radio shows radio commercials television college courses Whatever it is that you want to do to get in front of that audience. I need direct response Right, and then I guess the the other piece that immediately pops to my mind in that answer Landon is direct response within the second thing is not just one thing Yeah, when we first start like you're proud if I'm getting off the ground and I'm going to go find somebody to emulate and learn with We probably learn one model Yeah, we probably learn one way that's our most effective way But we start to see an evolution of people they go from salespeople into business owners when we start to run a marketing plan Which is multi funneled. I'm now I've got two ways And three ways and four ways that I'm strategically driving people into my office. Yeah, exactly I'm exactly we're a digital marketing agency But I would never tell somebody that they should only do digital marketing Like it's called a marketing mix for a reason direct mail works tv works in its own way if you want to drive phone calls in Digital marketing funnel works as well, but it's not well It's not one secret sauce is the magic lead that's going to be able to lay down leads It's a lot of different things, you know, I can't I can't Agree with you more man and to hear that from a guy That's already been there done that is is really encouraging. So thanks for unpacking that a little bit Yeah, it is. What's the what what do you think is the biggest difference between the Million dollar Anuity producer And the 10 million dollar annuity producer consistent appointments Getting in front of enough people there's a there's a quote that's shared inside of our office by One of the very very top financial gathering firms in the country Somebody we work with out of utah that gathers a couple hundred million dollars a year. It's pretty insane And they say almost all business concerns can be solved with more first appointments right It's like how am I How am I going to be able to score on the court if i'm not putting up any shops? You know what I mean? I mean that that's great that You know you and I don't know that you're great on defense It's great that you know when to call a zone or man to man We're not putting up any shots. We can't score any points. Yeah, we're not winning this game You know what I mean? So they got they have to consistently get in front of people Which goes back to that stage one finding somebody to emulate Stage two getting a second and a third funnel, especially this this could be Valuable to your crowd. There's a lot of times when I'll visit with somebody that's joining our firm hiring us as consultants And they have found one way to consistently get in front of people Right. It could be direct mail to have somebody attend a dinner event or it could be digital Where they're responding to get on a webinar right now, right or it could be College courses where they're teaching somebody kind of through the adult continuing ed syllabus We could go through some of those but they have maybe one turnkey way that month by month They're getting people in and they know they need to get into a secondary way And nearly every single time what we're going to coach into them is how to get into If and how to get into client events is where I'm going with this because I'm going to ask them Are there any other ways that you're consistently getting in front of people? And the answer that they're going to give me is yeah referrals So it's fantastic. Cody and Landon. I'm sure you get referrals Because you take care of your people, right? You take care of your people. They like you Of course, they're going to refer a few people into you, but tell me what are you doing strategically To generate those referrals Yeah, what's your activity? I don't know Right. We still take care of people. We get some so even just a multi A multi marketing pronged approach could be as simple as that first way that you find plus strategically Finding ways to educate your clients and ask your clients for referrals There are plenty of people Cody that we work with that gather 10 million dollars a year of clients money and the annuities on top of the other stuff We're doing one marketing funnel very very well And then having some strategic client events where they're educating and cross-selling Right medicare into financial planning financial planning into medicare or into health or into long-term care into whatever it might be Strategic education and cross-sell and referral your guest is your ticket, right setting up some events to where people can Can have agon we have 10 12 15 million dollar year producers that just do those two things if they're doing it well But I gotta be in front of people. Yeah, right on I love the love the love that you said that because that's It's so simple. I mean you could apply that to anything in the insurance industry. Just Consistent activity Consistent appointments every week no matter what you're selling you could apply that to freaking real estate, you know, I mean you're gonna have more success I don't I don't want this to sound like uh, somebody would would hear this and think I don't have the marketing budget to do that or I don't think a lot of what we're doing right now We're gonna we're still in a very different time with kovat, right and plenty of the marketing that's happening right now Is us coaching into people of how to go back into their database? And re approach all those people. Yeah, they were warmed up somewhere down the road You know what I mean? So can we can we get rid of some call reluctance? Pick up the phone with a basic script Reach out to them and ask them how they're doing as human beings ask them Uh a shared message of we're all in this together Here's one thing that I wanted to offer to you that our firm is doing now Is that something that you'd be interested in? Right and there are firms all across the country that have You know file cabinets or databases full of prospects of people that they've met over the the past few years Let's go talk to them It's human beings talking to human beings in an experience like this and let's get the The marketing machine going we just need to be in front of people It's just activity activity activity. It's block and tackle. I always tell people like I'm a marketing guy Not an insurance agent. Cody's the insurance guy And uh, you know, I always tell people the same thing. I'm like, dude It's block and tackle just work the leads get in touch with the leads Like how many times have you called the leads like and then wouldn't you know like they pick it up? And here they are talking to twice the people and all of a sudden they're getting more activity and more referrals And it all sort of leads one thing to the next so Absolutely It doesn't have to be anything. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Yeah, right again. We're human beings talking to human beings So pick up the telephone and ask them how they're doing Give them something that's valuable. So you're not wasting their time five minutes into the call Ask them if they're open to receiving it If not onto the next one, right? We're still connected with somebody and ask them how their day was Yeah, you know, so I again, I might be a little bit biased because we've been over the phone for 15 17 years I don't feel like it's all that difficult but uh activities activity. Let's get out there and get in front of them Yes, so some will some won't so what who's next, right? Yeah Burn it over the years for sure. Well, what's uh, what's some What's some parting words of wisdom that you can leave with our audience that uh, maybe something you haven't said yet Maybe something that that you know, you're like, well, maybe this could be helpful to this individual Um, what's what's some final thoughts is and this has been unbelievable by the way. This has been really good Well, thank you. Thank you Cody. Thank you landed. Um Here's what i'm talking to a lot of people about right now and it's a message that's going across our Our audience and this is something that I feel is a as an evolution out of covet But something that is going to stick long term inside the financial services industry I'm calling it uh mid-tail marketing But what I when I think of mid-tail marketing Here's in the past how a lot of marketing inside of financial services at least a fair number of the offices that we work with go So you do some sort of a marketing campaign, right something with you guys on in the digital space Or something male or radio, whatever it might be, but we're going to do a campaign And we're going to get people that respond and then of those people who respond Some are going to continue to engage then some are going to meet with you And then some are going to end up becoming clients and they're going to fall off But you're always going to have this this uh deteriorating number But we're still trying to hold on to as many of those percentages as we can To have a good closing percentage and turn a good ROI. That's the short tail of marketing That's the very first part of the graph and we're always going to be trying to Improve those numbers And if we're being honest what a lot of people do if they're out there spending money as they go through those percentages They make that stuff happen and then the people that don't become clients 50 people responded to your campaign and three people became clients They take the other 47 they put them on the other end of the tail the long tail Which is my email that hits them once a week or I try to get them with me on my facebook page Or I send them a newsletter whatever it might be. So we have this immediate ROI short term We have this long tail, which is great. Let's build our list Let's get out to stay in front of them all the time But there's got to be something the evolution that's happened here during kovat There's got to be a mid tail in between that short ROI and that long term drip And it's more about what's happening inside of offices days one through 14 Right if if we go out if anybody who's who's listening this goes out and they opt into any of the big financial firms Without mentioning them here, but we all know they are the billion dollar firms the one that you see the ones you see on national tv And you go on to the website right now and you ask for something free from them this free report Or that free white paper They are not going to just send it to you and then say hey if you want something more call us and then put you on an email drip No, you're getting a call from them day one day two day five day seven day ten You're on you're heavy inside of their texting campaign their email campaign They're hot and heavy for the next two weeks, especially if you put in there that you're worth some money Yeah, right. It's the exact same thing in our world. We want ROI Immediately we want to convert we want long we want short term. We want we want the long tail too We want to build the list But a lot of the evolution that we're seeing right now out of covet is what is happening days one through 14 Because there's a lot of people right now that are concerned That do have a real need in this financial space And that do want some answers But life's a little bit crazy and we got to make sure that we stay in front of them So I would just say maybe thinking about About your approach into prospects in the very immediate and the mid and the long term And what sort of tactics and strategies you can put around all of those. That's awesome. That's good. That's awesome Yeah, we automate that for our clients. So we drop all of our Leads into a crm that then fosters that lead gen text email for those 14 days They also get the raw data as well to then make sure that you know They go from lead to hot lead to appointment booked. So all of those that haven't moved to hot lead There's also need to be phone calls made etc But there's those automations that are going and they end up in the email drip as well Landon it's beautiful if you can automate that and get it out of your world even better But let me just add one thing icing on top of that cake Some of the most successful financial advisors that I work with right now are taking staff that they have inside their office Or I'm sure you could outsource this but they are taking people that are doing nothing But phone calls in that exact same situation So if you could layer on top of your drip and your automation What you have of hitting those people with three or four or five phone calls over those first two weeks I would uh, I would Politely suggest to you that we could get a much higher conversion on it too As opposed to asking them to respond to the email. So as much contact as we can have in those first couple weeks Yes, yes, man Maddie new Yeah, that's that's the that's the personal brand and they can follow you on instagram at maddie new In in you in e-u. Yep. M. A. T. T. Y. Any you you can find it on twitter you can find on instagram That's the uh, that's the website domain too maddie new dot com So we'd love to have people check it out and we'd be happy to uh To answer any questions or provide any insight off of this that people might have good man Yeah, thank you so much. There's a lot of big time players that need to hear this message today This is strong. So thank you. So appreciate you man. Thanks for joining us For sure. All right Hey, if you love this podcast, which obviously you dick is gonna bloody land it and I hey We got a video right here for you. It's how to hire and recruit insurance agents with the wolf All right, click on there and we'll see you over there You gotta realize that the typical interview questions out there are like, they're all well known and most people