 I'm going to record now. So, Vetin, please take it away. Yeah, sure. Thanks, Mike. Hope you see my screen, right? I just want to make sure everybody can clean and neat. OK. Perfect. OK, let's start and don't spend that much time because I have a nice demo to go through. So thank you. Thank you, everyone, for joining. A bit of a background what I will be doing today. I'll be showing an application that is focused on clinical trial in the pharma industry. That's actually based on Hyperledger Fabric. In particular, Hyperledger, there are multiple projects there. But the solution I'm showing right now is focused and based on Fabric. And actually, the tool and the platform that I'll be showing is actually the one that itself is based on Fabric using blockchain to manage some important parts. I'll focus on that as well of the process. But in particular, we will be going. I will give you some background about the application itself, like the platform itself and Sennofi as a company and the team behind. Then we will go through a particular use case for pharma industry. In particular, the clinical trial, as I explained. And we will do a demo. And at the end, I will leave some time for questions. So we are a small group. Don't hesitate to interrupt me if something is not clear, by the way. So yeah, let's start. So Sennofi, we are actually, let me just go to the next slide, small startup company almost two years now. We've been focused entirely in the first year on building a software as a service for Hyperledge Fabric that is actually consortia that I will demonstrate in a while. And we also do projects in different industry. And pharma is one of our focus areas. And yeah, we are a small team. We are professionals from Canada. And our background is actually coming out of enterprise application development and technology development for a decade now. We are friends there that know each other for a long time. And we've been working on real enterprise products and projects. I won't mention companies, but one of the big enterprise application vendors. In the world. So let's go next. We've been through a couple of projects. And why we decided to go with consortia is actually because of the multiple projects we've been on. Most of the time, unfortunately, we had to spend actually on building the network, talking about consensus mechanisms, and dealing, of course, with the challenges of onboarding organization on the same network. So we had to do most of those things manually. And that ends up taking around 70% of our time, which translates into cost to a project. This is how we came up with the idea, let's try to automate those things. We're not the only one, of course, out there doing that. But we wanted to have something that automates those manual steps. So we avoid manual errors. That actually happens all the time if you try to replicate the same network, for example, in different stages of your development. And of course, the other very, very important thing for us was to be able to deploy those networks across clouds. Of course, that is not specific to health care, right? But it is essential for any use case out there. So when we're talking about distributed ledger technology and blockchain in general, it's about, of course, in the context of permission blockchains. I'm not talking about public blockchains here. So I forgot to mention that it's entirely on the permission private side of it. Very essential part is actually how you govern your consortium because there is a constant. There is a policy who can do what, who can invoke a particular chain code. It's really a complex process behind. That is extremely different compared to what we have right now based on a client server architecture. So yeah, that's how we ended up with consortium. Again, cross cloud deployments, one of the most important thing for us and, of course, automation of deployment of applications. So how it works in general. So first of all, we know that the companies that form a consortium, they will be probably business partners. And those companies, they usually have their own vendors in terms of infrastructure and tools and even applications. So some of them may be using Oracle, some of them Azure or Microsoft Dynamics or whatnot. So there is a variety of applications and actually infrastructures every company use. So usually they even don't go with just a single vendor, of course. We will see or we see a lot of mix, mix in meaning given not just on the application side, but also mix on the cloud side. So when we form those consortia actually, we have to be clear that we cannot expect that all of them, all of the partners on the same network will be running their nodes on the same provider, cloud provider. Some of them will have a contract with their own cloud provider. It might not be one of the big guys out there, like AWS Azure or other clouds. It could be some proprietary vendor they work with or even on-premise. Many of those companies have their own data centers still. And we have to expect that there will be those cross-cloud deployments. And to organize your infrastructure is one thing, but then to manage all of that across your business partners, to manage your consortium across business partners is becoming a challenge. So after you actually deploy your nodes and deploy once you have your nodes and define your organizations, you move to the next step to deploy your applications. So those applications we know in Fabric, there is a concept of having that purely decentralized. So everyone is actually responsible to deploy. There is a process behind, of course, to deploy their own applications on the network, on their own infrastructure. And of course, the last but I think one of the most challenging part is actually how to govern those networks across different partners. And this is where actually we have a solution for. So let's now talk about pharma. So all the things I said so far, there are problems that are there across any solution or any industry. So let's take in particular a typical use case for pharma. So I took kind of three companies here or three entities that will be part of a network. And the typical case for a trial, I simplify it, overly simplify, of course, the use case just to make it more understandable. There is a lot of detail behind the scene and business processes running. But let's make it simple so that we all understand. So I have Nova that is a pharma company. And that pharma company perform trials. So they have a drug. They want to put it on test. And depending on the country where they do the trials, they have, of course, different regulations. In US, there will be one set of regulations. In Asia, there will be a third one. China, whatnot. So every country could have their own regulator and their own internal rules on how those trials should be performed. Of course, we have cross-international trials that you have to manage. But let's for our use case focus on a particular trial that goes in US. And of course, in US, you have FDA as a regulator for those trials. Now, the thing is that the trial process itself may be performed in one or multiple hospitals sites. It may not be a hospital at all. The patient or whoever is the part of the trial may even not be at the hospital all the time. They may go home and whatnot. But there are tons of regulations how you do that. So safety and public health is a very important thing. And every government wants to make sure that those trials are safe for people. So there is one particular thing that FDA requires. For example, if something goes wrong during a trial, for example, a patient goes or develops a serious condition. It could be something very simple, like developing a car or it could be a more serious thing like a heart attack, for example. Those things could happen during a trial, of course. And that's why usually when those events happen, then everyone that's involved on the trial, that means the site, let's simplify, take it as a hospital. And the pharma company and FDA, they want to actually be aware when such thing happens to a point that there is a regulation, for example, that requires that all of those cases are reported to FDA within 24 hours. Now, what is the problem? The problem, of course, is in the processing of those cases. We're talking here about three business entities. In reality, they're more than that. As I explained, I'm simplifying the use case. But there are more entities involved into that. And what they want to know is or what they want to do is when the case happens or the condition develops at the site, the first thing that they file a report. So describe all the conditions, everything that happens. So they send that to the pharma company, which is the NOVA in our case. So they will have to actually take a look at the file. They will assign an investigator that will go through the data, decide if that needs to be reported to FDA or not. And then once this is done, that information either goes to FDA or just stays within, between the pharma and the NOVA and the site. So the thing is that during exchanging of the information, there is a lot of manual process behind the scenes. So there could be information exchanged over the phone or information exchanged through faxes, a particular agent working or investigator working on a particular case. So they always could miss a very important information or will need follow-ups. We will need to verify with the site and the hospital. Confusions may happen. So it's very tricky and very time-consuming and, of course, costly process. It's just because it's very, very hard to verify that the information that's been received from the site then processed at the pharma company and then transmitted to FDA is actually consistent. And verifiable. So you don't trust that information to start with. So that's why double checks, cross checks needs to happen. Many of those things are done on paper or through faxes or through phone calls. So, of course, those partners, they have their own internal systems. So I just spoke about the problem. So they have their own internal systems. Of course, the problem is that it's extremely expensive to connect those systems. So we know how, especially for those of you who worked on enterprise projects, we know how hard it is to connect the systems. I'm not just even talking about connecting different business partners systems. So we have those techniques to do it, actually. I'm not saying we cannot do it without DOT. Of course, we do. So we have web APIs that's being called here and there, connecting, talking to systems. There are different concepts of exchanging data, of course. But it's very hard, actually, to guarantee the consistency of the data or to trace after the data. So what we want to do, and of course, there is a delay. So you take information from one of your partners. You don't know how old that information is. You don't know the quality of the information. And then you don't have it real time, actually. So it could take days until something comes to you and it might be too late. So this is where DOT comes into place and blockchain, in particular, where we can actually exchange data real time. And as you know, that happens through the consensus and the signature that's put on each transaction by each business entity that participates in the transaction. So that's how, actually, whenever something important happens and that's been recorded, transacted on the ledger, then everyone involved will actually get to know what is the current status. We'll see the information that is real time and the information that's important to make a decision or to investigate. And of course, there is no need to audit it, right? So it's already signed. So everyone knows that the data that they have on the ledger is already trusted. So let's take the demo right now. So I will use consortia, but behind the scene, that's Hyperledger Fabric again, just to mention that in case we have time. Just to mention that in case I missed, I think I already did. But anyway, so we will use three accounts on consortia. We have the infrastructure that runs on a cloud provider. But remember, some of them are on digital ocean. Some of them, I think, FDA is on Azure, if I'm not mistaken. But they run on different cloud providers. Those are actually machines that we already bootstrapped for the sake of the demo. So I have three accounts in consortia. Every one of those accounts represent a different entity that is Novo. So the hospital, I named it Boston General Hospital. That's the site. And then I have the FDA. That's going to have the FDA account. So far, I have set up in a way that Novo and the hospital already deployed an application, a Hyperledger application, where the hospital can record a case for a particular patient, create a case, shortly editing, providing the symptoms. For example, cough, whatnot. And then Novo will assign an investigator who's going to take a look at the file and decide what to do with it. So that's already in place. And let me show you what's behind. I try not to go that technical, actually, so you don't get confused. It's kind of Hyperledger fabric specific, most of those things. But in general, this is actually the technology that's running the application. And I will show the application after. So assuming that we have that, what I will demonstrate is how actually FDA will come onto the network where the hospital and Novo are already are. We'll deploy the chain code or the smart contract. We'll deploy their own application, and they will start seeing the data real time. So what I have so far, let's start from the application because that's going to be the easiest thing for you to understand. So what I have deployed already is, let me see, the Boston. OK. So that is actually the consortium management dashboard. And I have my applications. So see, I have my chain codes or smart contracts. That's my trial chain code. And I have my web application that's running on that particular machine. So I will request it. So you can take a look at it. And how it looks like. OK. So of course, how Boston is going to use it. It's a question of integration and implementation. Some of the hospitals, they already do use mobile devices or maybe tablets. So it's easier to enter the information. That's just a web interface. But those things are actually, you guys can easily convert it into a real web application. Mobile application, for example. So they can easily enter the data at the time they meet the patient. So the whole point here is how fast we share information with our business partners. So here, what I can do as a hospital, I already recorded a case actually here. It's a very simple UI. Have in mind that is the very stripped down application for the use case. But what we can do here is actually to enter the patient name. Here, usually, those patients are already very likely, depending on what software is used as the hospital, already deployed or, how to say, already created in their own internal systems. Again, the thing is that DOT is not a solution for keeping master data for your patients. So this is where we do expect to have integration with the system that the hospital is using right now. So we actually can pull information about the patient master records. So we can actually link that transaction to a particular patient on the ledger. So I will come up with a name. Usually here, you will get a name. Let's put my name here. And then I'll do I have a fever. I hope I don't. Here is the site. Actually, that's just an example where the same application could be used by multiple hospitals. So that not all of them have to actually take care of the setting up their own application instance and all that. So there could be like one application that handles multiple hospitals to reduce the cost. So I can actually record the case. And while that's done, let me just put the other. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I was too fast. So as you see, this is where my second case was recorded about me having the fever and with the date and status. So let's now take a look at the application that FDA is running. Sorry, NOVA. So let me take the application URL. And as you see, they see already the case that I've just reported. So this is where they can actually investigate, like trigger the process of investigating the case. So they will assign someone who will actually take a look at the case and I'll just refresh my UI here. They will assign someone who will take a look at the symptoms, take a look at the patient. Actually having in mind that my name is something that might be very confidential. In terms of what age I am, like date of birth and all of those things, there is a regulation how much information you exchange about your patient with your business partners. And in my case, I do share a name, but you could actually easily filter out those details when you actually show that to FDA, for example. FDA may not, sorry, they will need to know the details. Whereas pharma companies as such, they're not that much interested where that person lives exactly, address and whatnot. They just want to focus on the deciding and adjudicating if that case needs to be reported to FDA or not. So we keep our identity of our patient anonymous. So this is what they have right now. So of course, what I want to show right now is FDA point of view. So let's assume those guys are already kind of solving the problem they're having so they can record cases. They can see the data real time. All of that, of course, recorded on the ledger. So they have a proof. When that's being done, transactions being done, there is a consensus and endorsement done by the peers of both organizations. So they know the data is in good standing and good quality. So FDA comes into picture. So the whole problem about it is how FDA will onboard the existing network. And if you take a look at it, I would just show you side by side with NOVA and I would just show you the topology of the network. So those channels here are actually, that's actually the ledger. You know, hyper ledger fabric allows you to run multiple ledgers or blockchains. So you can actually use some concepts to manage properly the data that you're sharing with your business partner and keep it anonymous or isolated in their own silos. So this is the trial, which is that's how I named the channel. And the NOVA, that's on the right, they have the one peer. That's part of the trial channel that endorses the transaction on the trial channel. And on the left, we have Boston with one peer that is a part of the same channel. That's how actually they endorse and see, have the same view on the transaction that happened on that ledger. Now, just give me a sec. So how actually, how easy it is to make FDA part of that network? In reality, it's extremely hard. So it's not like it's impossible, not at all. You just go on the hyper ledger fabric documentation website, you follow all steps and you end up getting there. The problem is that it usually takes a lot of time. And reason for that is because it's very easy to make a mistake. And one simple mistake you make, you may make it early in the process and then nothing works and good luck repeating it again and again. So this is where we kick in and actually how to make the process. So I'll show you now FDA. That's, again, a different account on consortia. I already have bootstrapped a peer that belongs to FDA. So that peer runs on their own infrastructure. And as you see, it's just a peer. It doesn't have any ledger on it. So usually what FDA will do, they will pick up their infrastructure or a cloud provider. They will bootstrap their own peer. And of course, they will join the ledger. So the trial channel, the trial ledger. So they can start seeing the transactions that already flow between the hospital, the Boston hospital and NOVA, how they do that. So this is where we have a so-called channel updates or that is our network governance process. And this process actually enables you easily to take an organization and make it part of an existing ledger, or in other words, join organization on the network. So what I would do, first, I will have actually to, because there is a policy behind. It's a permission network, right? Not everyone can join it and start looking into the transactions that have been recorded there or see data on the ledger. They'll have to ask for permission. So permission, how we do it, it's purely actually automates whatever is available already there. There is nothing proprietary here. You can do it without consortia, as I mentioned. It's just much, much easier to automate the process behind the scene. And actually, all the governance process that I'm showing right now, it is implemented on top on Hyperledger Fabric itself. This is a very important point and a design decision on our side is because we want to keep that open in a way that multiple vendors like consortia and cloud providers can actually enable such process between them. Of course, there will be companies that they will use Azure blockchain as a service or AWS Hyperledger Fabric as a service or whatnot. So at the end of the day, they must have an easy way to actually govern their networks, even though they run on different cloud providers. And how you do that, right? Easily. So there should be a way of doing it in a very controlled way. And you cannot expect that you will have a well-experienced Fabric developer to do that for every consortium out there. So let's show you. So the first thing that FDA will actually request one of the organization, in my case, I will do it with Nova to actually make them part of the ledger. So for that reason, I will type in the name of the ledger. So I will have actually to provide the account ID of the processor. And in my case, as I mentioned, that's going to be Nova. So I'll just switch to Nova. So I will take my account token. That thing I will usually share with FDA over email or many any secure channel. So in my case, I'm just doing it on one machine. I'll just copy paste. But usually that's nothing more than it's not encrypted or vital information. It is just a base 64 encoded. Let me just show that to you. Encoded message about what is the name of the vendor, which is consortium in my case. And that's the unique identifier of the Nova account. That's it. So nothing secure about it. So I will choose the MSP or the membership service provider. In my case, of course, I have just one. There might be cases where I'm managing multiple membership or multiple organizations. That's why the drop down. And all I have to do is actually essentially what I'm saying here, I want to join the ledger trial, name trial, and I want that account to process my request. So all I have to do is just create. At that point of time, I will just flip back to the other to Nova. At that point of time, actually what I'm doing right now is just FDA. I'm just creating a joint request on the ledger. That's actually a transaction that happens on Hyperledger Fabric itself. So I have the request ID. So here the system will actually automatically attach the certificates of FDA. Those are the public certificates, like the self-signed certificate, the authority certificates. So actually the network will be able, based on those certificates, to drive the permissions correctly. So I don't have to actually attach that menu. What happens automatically. So once I have the request ID, I can send that to Nova. And I'll say, hey, guys, I have created the joint request to join your ledger. And please decide or approve my request and then go through the process. So what Nova will do, it will just take the channel joint request ID and it will create the channel change transaction. So have in mind that is something that is being created. So this means we have a joint request, an organization that wants to join a consortium between Nova network. That's already running and governed between Nova and Boston General Hospital. So in order for that request to go through, there is a policy in Fabric, which is the default one. That requires that majority of the participants on the network to agree on that request. So what they will do, they will have actually to create the request to change it, to update the ledger, to give permissions to FDA to see the data. And every one of the participants will have to sign the request. So what I've just did is actually to create the transaction. That is actually a transaction that will be recorded on the ledger. But before I'm even able to submit it to the ledger to give permissions to FDA, every organization on the network will have to sign it. And because I'm with Nova account, as you see, I'm only able to sign it with Nova. Because I'm the one who's actually Nova account is managing Nova organization. I cannot sign it with Boston because Boston organization is managed by a different account. And actually all the certificates, all the private keys, all the access to those keys and then to be able to sign is governed by Boston. So I cannot sign it on behalf of Boston. So I will trigger meanwhile the sign, the signature of the transaction from FDA point of view from sorry, Nova point of view. Let me just move that around. And I will go to, what is that? The Boston, okay. So as you see, Boston automatically got a channel change request which is assigned to him to approve. So they will have the same view of it, okay. So they will see the same transaction. Again, all of the information you're seeing there is driven and powered by hyper ledger fabric. So it's a blockchain driven approach here. And they already see that the Nova is actually in the process of signing. It takes time because it's a scheduled process that happens behind the scenes. So Nova is actually already signing the transaction, okay. So what they can do is actually take a look at the transaction, make sure that they're happy with what they see that they're giving FDA a permission to actually join the network which is actually the trial channel as you see up there, okay. So this is actually the detail, kind of a technical detail on the transaction itself. So they can actually see who's joining, what is the policy, the new policy and all that. So what they can do is actually to trigger the signature process, okay. So I will just sign on the, with the Boston account or Boston organization. And I will go back to my Nova view, okay. So as you see my channel change request is already processing. And I've seen that Boston is actually currently signing it. So once I have the full signatures received, okay. Then I'll be able to deploy the change and actually join FDA on the channel. So as you see, I now have the required signatures to change the policy and the topology of my trial channel so that I can include FDA, okay. So I will trigger the deployment process, okay. And once that deployment is triggered, I will actually have to wait a bit. So once the deployment's finished, then you will see that FDA, so let me flip back to FDA, okay. So FDA will actually see that their change channel, their ledger join request, it's approved and it's deployed. So at that point of time, as you saw throughout the process, FDA has no visibility on who's on the ledger. They will have to trust the network they're joining or they have to know the network they're joining and let the participants on the network to drive the process of adding them on the ledger. So if I click here on the channels, you now see that FDA is part of my trial channel, okay. So I do have my note and all I have to do is actually to join my peer, my FDA peer on the trial channel, okay. Once I join the peer on the trial channel, what I can do is actually to deploy my own web application, it's already prebuilt by the way, so that's why it looks easy, but in general there is a particular implementation of that web application as that's being deployed. So where I am, oh yeah, let's see if my peer joined the channel. Yes, my peer joined the channel. So that means at that point now, FDA is having the ledger. So this means they are able to see all the information that's there, all the transactions that's been done so far. So let's take a look at the application. Application is actually a simple Docker container. It's just a web exposing the blockchain or the ledger transaction through web APIs. So as you see, it's just working with the trial channel. And I will just deploy my application. I'll give it a couple of seconds to finish. And that's my endpoint. So the other thing that I'm just realizing that we are missing is actually the smart contract itself, right? So I already have the smart contract here, which is the trial CC, but I believe I haven't installed that on my peer. So I will have to install, because that's the smart contract that's gonna return the information from the ledger to me. So what I will do, I will create a version V1 and I'm sorry, I have to take the branch of the, not the branch, yeah, the branch is developed. Okay, so I will have to, that's actually a chain code has been deployed from Git repository, by the way. So that's where the smart contract is. So at the peer, so my peer is bootstrap. So I'll just trigger the installment of my chain code on the peer. So actually when I run my web application can take the information through the smart contract from the ledger that I just joined, okay? So yeah, let's see how the, if the application is live, it will take time of course for the chain smart contract to get deployed. But yeah, let's see what the status is, what I've just done. Oh yeah, it's already deployed, okay. So all I have to do is just to request my web application. Let me see, oh yeah, perfect, it's been deployed. Okay, now you will see it's pinning and the reason because if it's pinning is because the smart contract on the peer, the FDA peer is not yet up. It may take a minute to actually bring up the smart contract, the life on the peer. So that's why it's pinning. Just, we'll need to give it some time. And yeah, so let's go back to our view. So remember that the two applications here, FDA, sorry Nova and the hospital, they have the same view, right? On the same ledger, on the trial chain code. So they can see the information there. So just do expect that after I get my smart contract up and running on FDA, I'll be able to see the same application, the very same information. Yeah, finally it's up. Okay, so as you see, that's my FDA view, okay. And I can see actually all the transactions that being recorded so far. And let's say that there is a new case coming in, okay. So a new patient comes to Boston with another hospital with a complaint. So let's say that guy, Samuel, and he's having sort of pain, okay, bone pain. And record the case. Okay. So after I do record the case, let's refresh my Nova view, okay. So as you see, I just recorded that case on the ledger. So Nova sees the information right away. And FDA will see the same in real time, okay. So that now I have a trial case, smart contract that's been deployed on three organizations. FDA, Nova and the Boston hospital. And they have the same consistent view across the process of trial. It is a very simple approach here just to showcase the capability of the application. But again, in general, what you will do technically speaking is that you will have integration of those applications within the ecosystem or the application stacks and technologies that run on each partner. For example, you will do an integration in FDA. It may not look exactly the same at all. It could be a mobile application or whatnot or could be integrated and embedded in their own existing applications. And you will actually do every organization will do the same integration and the same implementation on their site. But what is the most important part is that those, the information is actually the very essential information that's needed for those partners or those business entities is recorded on the ledger and indoors by the peers that are part of the network. Okay, so. Thank you very much for the presentation. Yeah, that's, oh, actually. Yeah, sorry, it's just that. Yeah, that's how there is one last slide. It's just about. I figure for the last three minutes, we should probably. Yeah, we should probably. Open up to questions. Exactly, exactly. And we did have a question from Erica that was, she sees the use cases mainly focused on pharmacovigilants reporting ADRs. Is this just an example or are you recording other steps of the trial? Hello, can you repeat the question? Mike, sorry. Yeah, I did chat. Yeah, Erica, you can ask me. Yeah, I was just curious. I know you're using pharmacovigilants as an example for what you're recording with Hyperledger. And I was just wondering if you were, you know, if you're planning to record other steps of the trial or if you're mainly focused on pharmacovigilants because I used to be a, I used to be involved in pharmacovigilants. So I was just curious. Oh, yeah, that's very overly simplified for the demo. Actually, behind the scene, there is a lot of other information and multiple ledgers involved. It's not just one. For the demo, I'm just showing the happy path, one straightforward use case. So when we're talking about what you record on the ledger, there are a couple of dimensions there we'll have to consider. How many ledgers we wanna use and the ledger means purely to achieve pure privacy between two participants on my business network. Right now I'm showing three participants, right? So that's gonna be the regulator, the pharma company and the hospital. But having that in one trial, there might be multiple hospitals that participate. And they don't- Yeah, I understand that. I was just wondering if you're also recording, if you're recording consent, if you're recording the steps of the trial or if you're focused on this. Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah, that's, and there is the trial. How are you recording consent? I'd like to be dove into that more. So the consent, I had a drawing somewhere, but it will take time for me to find it. So the consent is very essential part of the process, right? So this is where someone needs to capture it first. So that's gonna be the organization that drives that comes up with the only one that can do that, right? So there is a policy like, who can endorse the transaction in fabric? So you can actually give the endorsement rights to the organization that captures the concept of the patient. Now, that capturing usually comes with the patient data. That is actually something that you may not necessarily want to keep on the ledger. And the reason is because some of this data is private, right? So you don't want to share it. If you really want to verify though, the data, this is when you record it as a private data collection, that's a capability of fabric. So you actually can have the hash code of the data and everyone can validate, actually verify that the consent is actually based on a valid patient. So you cannot actually fake the system saying, hey, I have a consent for someone and just make it up, right? So it will be a synchronization with existing patient database that you probably already have at the hospital. And then taking that hash and putting it on the ledger so you can actually verify later on for each case who's actually the patient without exposing a single detail on the patient, like address, name, age and all of that. Some of those indicators, of course, could be exposed and those indicators may need or by regulation may need to be exposed only between particular business partners on the network, not all of them. Again, it's a combination of integration using private data collections and different ledgers in fact. Any other additional questions? We have time for one more and then I guess we'll have to wrap up our session today. All right, Spen, thank you very much. For taking the time today to present to our group, just an update for everyone else. If you want to contact Zveten, how could they, how could people reach you best? They can reach me on LinkedIn or just send me an email. I have my email. I think I register on the website. So they, I think the hyperledger, right? The list there. I think there is a list of email list, right? Yeah. I think I already entered my name there. Awesome. Cool. Yeah. So you can find my detail from there. Okay. Awesome. All right. And just for an update for Leah and Si, we are going to have a general meeting next week. No presenters. So it could be more of an open forum and give community updates. But Zveten, thank you very much for the time today and we'll see you all next week. Thank you. Thanks, Zveten. Thank you. Bye. Bye.