 Welcome everybody back to Segal Talks here at the Martin E. Segal Theatre Center and my name is Frank Henchker and it's week 18 of our talks with theater artists from New York, the U.S. But mostly from all around the world to get an update how this moment of the time of Corona is experienced by artists as human beings as in their everyday life and their days but also what consequences it has for their artistic work. And also of course for their thinking and how they use this time and what is going through your mind when we had Eugenio Barba on our talk he reminded us that the time before you shoot an arrow the time of incubation, Susanne Kennedy said at the time this is the important time not when you already is launching so in case there is a time after Corona now is the time where everybody is thinking or what we are doing what's essential was not an artist always have been on the right side of social justice on the complex fight for freedom and freedom and liberty and and it is of importance to listen to them but to really listen to them what they say is important and we have to take notice and perhaps we did not listen carefully enough because all the works artists have been presenting about the state of the planet the state of the world as we call it. Our motto is a bit battle breaks dictum new times need new forms of theater definitely we are in a new time on planet Earth at the moment we are inside a catastrophe movie but you're not watching it we are inside and nobody knows what will happen where it ends we have over 4 million infections here in the United States the CDC the Center for Disease Control says it's 10, 13, 15 times more so 40 or 15 million are infected we have 150,000 people who died most probably it's much much more and last week it's been a thousand death every day so numbers are going up as everywhere in the world even China is experiencing a serious outbreaks again and so we are all very very concerned if there is ever a time and art needs to speak if it has something to say perhaps it is now and we all read look at images films poetry recordings we know what we are missing and theater is a form of live art of the community at the center and at the moment we do not have it so what is changing what has already changed what will be changing a big big question with us today we have a significant worker in the vineyard of theater performance and especially dance someone from the great country of Indonesia Indonesia which is a country all should pay more attention to in Asia and not only because it has the largest Indonesian population at largest Muslim population in the world with 17 almost 18,000 islands 5,000, 6,000 inhabited but also how they are able to combine contemporary modern post-modern post-traumatic work with significant traditional art we already had Ria from the paper moon company and with us and so today we have with us a helly minority and it's a great pleasure to have you with us helly where are you what time is it I'm in Yogyakarta or we call it Jogja shortened and it's 11 it's a 11 hours difference so it's 12 hours difference so it's like 11 o'clock now close to close to close to midnight yeah it's about an hour flight away from Jakarta if you go in a car if I understood right with all the traffic is going to take 10-14 hours but these are two two significant cities of course in Indonesia let me tell you a little bit about helly she's Jakarta born and she works as an independent dance scholar and curator and she is rethinking radical strategies to connect theory and practice and it is important for us to know what our Asian colleagues are doing how they are influencing our work how they have been influenced by you know the theory that comes out of the Western world but now they are adapting and creating something new she's interested in histiographies of choreography as a discursive practice vis-à-vis the electric knowledge of the human body nature connection and her ongoing equatorial project is jizak tabi exchange if I say that right wandering contemporary Asian performance and she holds a PhD from Indonesia actually in Georgia if I understand right that's where you got it no from the Hampton University in London in London and and she is setting up right now Ling Ling Karani and choreography yeah the collaborative research platform focus to expand the critical notions tell us a little bit about the situation in the moment in Indonesia what is happening can you hear me the last week we yeah I can't hear you can you hear me yeah so tell us a little bit about the situation in Indonesia and what is happening so in yeah in terms of the pandemic in regards to the pandemic it's been in in the last seven days or yeah a week over a week we we we've been seeing again like increased cases nationwide and I think it now is like almost 100,000 you know affected infected and I think our national rate that toll is is like 5% or something but I think Georgia because it's small compared to Jakarta Jakarta is 14 million people while in Georgia is not even half million like so for Indonesian it's it's dim small maybe not not compared to Europe so it's in Jakarta is I would say we're faring much better than than all those big cities because we are small and the culture is slow we so we were attuned to to being slow anyway so when you know when in March we would like we have to quarantine ourselves. I think it's compared to my friends in Jakarta because I am Jakarta and I mean I spent most of my time most of my whole life in Jakarta. It's a different you know it's a different take on emotionally and psychologically. So yeah. Now in Georgia we have like 500 almost like almost 587 I think positive but with recovery rate higher than the national national ones because I've been watching it like every other day and the local government is kind of like open relatively open because they they put the figures like every day at four o'clock and then they also created this website so I could I can actually check within my neighborhood like how many people you know positive or what they call it they have this several categories like you know like patient in observation and people in you know being observed because they were like exposed to certain things or waiting for tests. Usually the government is doing a good job is it some sense. National one. I think in the beginning it was like kind of like in denial. I think our ministry minister of health. He he said something unwise if not stupid like you know in the beginning it's like you know they he said that no I think we will be fine you know like in February. So it's a it's kind of like late. I mean we were not ready. Also like we although by February like you know you could see like some some yeah big cases after Wuhan but and for for a while I think is for weeks I think is they try to figure out so it's like so so so much confusion from their side is kind of like frustrating for us to really you know to really follow but I think I would say that there is this yeah it's just like the dynamic of Indonesian society I think and I think it's much it's much tense and much how would they say it in Jakarta because it's it's the center of politics in Jakarta is always prone to political feud and you know arguments and everything but I'm just lucky I think I yeah to have moved to to Jogja I think it's a it's a different space for me. Where were you when it all started? Was there a severe lockdown right away? Believe you me because I travel from December to early March and my itinerary was crazy so I was first I went to Singapore for the night for the talk and then I went to Reykjavik in Iceland for a month and that's where that's what we heard because you know the news was like 30th of December and I you know we all heard about it but didn't really think that it would be like yeah I was alarmed because I knew that my itinerary you know was kind of like crazy and after that I had to go to the Philippines in one of the island to do this project and that's where you start getting intense because I was in Rojas City actually a small city in Visayas region, in I think 40 minutes by flying, 40 minutes flying from Manila and just three days or one day before we opened the platform. My friend said oh really this you know there's a tree they they found these three Chinese they hospitalized these three Chinese person and they were tested but then before the test came out I mean they released the patient and it's only like you know the next city so it's only one hour drive. So then when after releasing the patient they they discovered that they were actually positive so then the police you know try to find yeah try to locate them so it was a bit like then my friend the Filipino artist was was like stressed about it and I was like okay then towards the in the middle of this for me is you know it's clear that it's bigger than it could be yeah a big a big danger for us so I I just read what I could hold you know hold on and then I just you know I just went to the pharmacy and then I bought some vitamin C because I think there's no other things that you could do you know apart from you know returning to your body and then paying attention to your body because yeah that's that's what I did in Rojas because after that I had to go to Yokohama for another meeting and that's two days after I arrived in Yokohama yeah no I arrived two days after the you know the cruise do you remember the cruise that discovered the patient like you know and I was like why this this this corona thing following me like you know Rojas city and in Yokohama and it's so close I mean you know I mean I stayed pretty close to the hardware and I could listen I could hear like you know the silence of ambulance like every now and then you know with people with medics medical team with that suit so yeah it's a yeah it's it's kind of like following me until until I arrived in my next destination and then then my friend called me that you know the first positive cases you know in Indonesia happened and believe you me three of I knew these people because it's a colleagues and friends actually it's a mother and two two daughters and the mother was my colleague in Indonesian dance festival so it's a yeah it's kind of like strange and weird and yeah alarming experience yeah so it's a real yeah so real that's the words yeah so I know I think we are from the paper moon company said there was some kind of a lockdown people were asked to stay at home did you do that too and what what what were you thinking about what was on your mind I think I did for a good for three weeks I mean I just I just did my shopping like once a week normally I you know I I did I did my shopping like once in once every three days or something so that three that three weeks between I think I think late of March until whole you know middle of April we yeah I I kind of like you know stay at home but then again Ramadan came anyway and in Ramadan people slow down in a way you know so it's a it's kind of like you know forum forum month we we kind of like you know absurd either you know you're Muslim or not it's the at least here and then and then I think I think I think exactly in 803 I I kind of like you know broke that you know said staying at home I remember we I met my friends like on the three of them and then we watch film at home so it's a yeah slowly slowly try to to meet people again but in small numbers and only yeah the closest one hmm so how's the situation at the moment for performing artists are spaces open do people rehearse so it's so funny I think during this quarantine it's kind of like everyone in that for example they did a lot of like video you know screening either home home home production and not and most of them I think took place in Instagram and I think even the government kind of like encourage that I think they they commissioned 40 dancer young dancers to make to create like five minute you know like pieces and then they kind of like I stream in in you know in in YouTube and I think for the few weeks it was like a bit too much because everybody was doing it and I was kind of like I don't know this elude yeah I find I found it very strange and I found I resisted to to accept that as you know because people start talking that this might be a new normal I was like what is normal what is new normal it's it's not normal I mean we're performing arts we should not be to me it's like why we why why rushing you know why rushing to to to change because it's too soon and it's too early you know I think my my response my personal response was to slow down slow down and really take time to so I mean I did a lot of like gardening or reading and you know things that I couldn't do while I was so busy with you know with work so yeah I think now it's kind of like calm down and now we we they start doing you know festival but but online but recorded I mean just before this I mean I watched this why young you know shadow puppet live stream from the university that I'm teaching because it's at the end of semester and it's kind of like tradition for them to do some you know performance like performance and now they did this live but then again the technology is not up to it because you you could see the delays it's not like you know so yeah I think people here start embracing this as a new form but to me is I I need more time for example you know the the job to be that I did so it's basically we do like the way we do is to to to connect to cities in in the region meaning that what you created right yeah but it's actually one city it actually the festival itself goes from city to city normally companies no yeah yeah but we it depends so we started with questions for example like this is the second edition the second edition we like to we like to connect Rojas city it is Visayas Island actually it it it it was Rojas was not the first option it was Negros, Negros province in in in the Philippines and Naha in Okinawa so we we like to look up and close about these two cities in terms of like performance practices and because there there are some similarities but not quite for example like both are like islands like you know and archipelago thing and both both have this historical historical connection with American imperialism like Rojas city and Visayas archipelago and Naha so I mean there are some issues like political and cultural issue that seems seems to be like connect them then we start with questions and then we start meeting the artists and curators and you know and in in in Rojas city we collaborated with an arts collective called Green Papaya it's actually visual arts collective but one of the members is dancer and choreographer so it's you know and then so we kind of like program with them and then in Naha we collaborate with Masashi Nomura is a curator used to be based in Naha but now lives in Nagano then so it's like in January it took place in Rojas and the Naha should have should have been in in August and of August early September and now it's that yeah that was fun yeah it's cancelled and so I mean go ahead yeah so it's a in the beginning we're thinking to resort to this online online platform in October but then again we were like hang on you know like at that time it's also the practicality is because of the funding the main funder said you have to do it like you know at the latest by October but when they considered and then they said okay you can actually stretch it until next year we decided to take time so I mean we still hope that we can do the big thing like you know life as we plan some sometimes next year but in the in the meantime we managed to we're planning to launch the archive of Rojas because the idea is to connect this Rojas and Naha so I mean we will launch the archive of Rojas maybe by December and also the idea is it's not only festival in terms of like performing arts I mean performances but more like the artists the artistic practice of the artists you know in the region so we kind of like also we've been following some artists process making work so for example I don't know if you know you die Hamisato from Tokyo yeah I mean he's been following us he's been following these platforms in the first one in Jogja two years ago and now he did the follow-up of this he did some residency and research residency in Bangkok and he kind of like shared it in Rojas his research and then he just performed the next stage is an audio play I think two weeks ago in the other format Germany a Sea of Islands festival and then he's thinking to develop to something you know with the feasible I don't know what he's working on now but we kind of like follow him and also the other artists yeah so it's more like process based than product based yeah yeah so tell us a bit about the contemporary scene in Indonesia and this emerging Asian network of theater companies festivals platforms do you think something new is emerging there something that is different from European or American initiatives is there a specific Asian theory and practice combination we should know about I think is I think we look I think I think we're looking for different connection to to just of course you know we intimate I think by we I think we it's in theater it's it's happening more happening more than in dance because in dance we're not really we haven't really done our homework when it comes to theorizing it like you know or philosophizing it like you know and connecting it to the global the global discourse but in terms of theater I mean you know the connection has been always there from art to breath and to unique barba and you know and but then again I think the present generation they try to to connect also by looking at Indonesia beyond beyond Java you know like I think I think theater garasi and Johnette who help you know our connection connection they they they they they try to do address some issue like drama 2g for example they have this this group now like study group to talk about about drama 2g but then again localizing it and in terms of localizing it not only focusing on Java but also other islands because I think the communities in Indonesia is huge like really huge I teach them by I teach them by calling them congregation like church congregation instead of because that's so big like you know like and it's very rooted like you know communities rooted because we don't have like professional companies like you know but then again it is more like communities but community of collectives but then again yeah so I think that kind that there is this has been a sense of how to say it, consolidating in terms of like how to connect and how to discuss and then how to do how to do other practices yeah I think exciting times for theater now in Indonesia but I think it would be maybe it's about planting seed like now I don't know maybe they're back to D word I mean because I'm kind of like outside yeah not really insider although now in Rojas you know we look at of a specific specific history of theater in Negros Island because yeah tell us a bit what is history on that oh gosh I think Negros Island is it was they have this there was this time in 1986 so one year after no I think in 1985 there's a small town it's called Escalante in Negros Island and if you know the Negros Island I think there are two Asian American artists you know researching about this and Zoe and Emily they were part of our platform as well I mean if you can give you some link later and it's Negros Island is known for it's sugar as a sugar land it's a sugar plantation and we just which is has a lot of baggages from the colonial era because it's a it's a you know it's the landlord and the the landlord and the passion relationship that is always been tense and it's so in 85 there was this massacre of a patient farmers in Escalante and I think at a time 20 people instantly dead but then again more victims you know yeah how to say more victims in the in the coming days and it was only one year before Marcos fell from from the power and this starting from 1986 I mean they have this grassroots the grassroots farmer's it's called theater of railroad which means like and they do this they've been doing this reenactment of this particular incident tragedy every year every every year until 2016-2007 even 2018 but last year it was then you know the politics the the present politic I don't know if you followed you know Philippines politics they they try to they try to intervene this this tradition so it's yeah it's it's so it's this kind of like theater as movement as political movement is really rooted there and but also then we reflect on on a bigger how to say a bigger movement from the Philippines which dated back in 80s then it's yeah actually it's they they have a big influence in in Indonesia in Singapore and in in Indonesia and perhaps also in in Thailand really so during the last platform we asked artists to do some research about it and then to present these findings yeah so it was quite a special moment for us do you feel it is a moment in the Asian region instead of looking to Europe say we want to be in France or Berlin or in Rome or to go to New York do you feel it's a region in the moment is is connecting to itself it's discovering itself and is experimenting with forms without necessarily looking to the outside world but to more towards towards its own tradition and new forms of of experimentation I think I think because I think I think the legacy the connection the Euro-American influence is there always and the connection I think in the in the 80s at least in Southeast Asia the connection already started like you know or even much earlier like maybe in the 70s but then again I think what what's so different is the distribution the distribution of the work like because I think starting maybe I think in 2002 for example Singapore opened this explanation like big art center like you know in following the likes of Lincoln Center I mean and then really the intention is to be the center of of Southeast Asia which I think I would argue that Indonesia already did it in 68 with the same vision but it was a different time and also the Philippines also did one year even one year before like you know the center of Philippine arts like they they built this really beautiful center but then again there's a new momentum you know the the last of four or five years when when maybe you heard like you know in Guangzhou they they built this Asian cultural theater like you know really big and then in Taiwan they have even like they built two already and they're still building one another one so and then so all this sprouting new centers across Asia then they need production and this also this new I don't know awareness consciousness that you know we need to really know we don't know anything much about about you know about each other we know more about about from Singapore for example and why is that so then we kind of like you know if you said that kind of like changing our practice and maybe our travels and our priorities and maybe also the desire to to to get to be to get in depth with it you know across the region instead of like jumping across the water like you know straight away so yeah I think that kind of momentum not so much about yeah of course I mean along the way the aesthetic you know questions the aesthetic exploration came along but it's more more about you know there but recognizing that there are a lot of localities and also the awareness of not looking not really thinking are just international terms so there is no such like Japanese theater but you know but more like who are the person and what is what is the history and is that anyone writing the history because you know that's more interesting than than yeah than only looking as a as a national block as as before. So in a way you look at the region as an archipelago so there's lots of islands that are connected and not just belonging to one nation but to one cultural or artistic sphere. Yeah because the question of Asianness has been there like in dance I felt it like you know in the 20 you know since like early 2000 like 2002 we start asking about this Asianness and the impossibility of of of this term because you know once you travel to Europe or you know outside Asia you are first of all I mean you are recognized or identified and an Asian artist and but for us what that's supposed to mean because we don't even one English even English the way that the language that we communicate is not our language you know like so it's it's yeah we start realizing the impossibility of using that kind of term. Yeah. Since you said since the early 2000 that the question of the Asian is what what did you discover what did you find out about the work in the region and what it's in your synchrocies what what is the I can only I mean maybe in general like you know like you enter you survive the intercultural practices in the 90s because not only because intercultural practices in the 90s among Asian you know like you know you have you watch this kind of kind of what like King Lear by by on Kang sang and you know and yeah or Daniel Young or you know all this you know artist and now and now what you know like because and then you realize that maybe we still adopt the old you know the the same methods and the same approach that this Euro-American directors approaching Asia from previous decades so then you know then I think the process the thinking process of of realizing it realizing that as a moment and then then then also realizing that it's it has to be something with travel and encounter you can't just like imagine you can't you can't you can't imagine you know yeah we know it but the thing is before 2000 traveling across the region is so expensive I mean I remember thinking in early 90s when I was a student and I was working in a production company at that time traveling to traveling to from Jakarta to Hanoi the flight ticket is the same from Jakarta to Germany so you know it's impossible for us to to to afford that so it didn't the traveling across region internally inside the region it didn't happen until the budget airline kick in it is like early 2000 so that's that's I think that's how how it happened how it unfolded and then we we could you know we could start traveling even I mean to my ship I mean I haven't been to I mean Southeast Asia 10 countries plus Timor-Leste and I haven't been in all I think there are three countries that are still need to visit when you curate a theater agent theater agent dance site specific ensemble work what what do you look for what is of interest to you in that work what you see I think it's of course the how they say I've been working with Pat Mini to this choreographer from Chennai the last three years and I think because it different it's different in every context of course like you know because but the thing is I look for how to say artistic integrity of course I mean and a desire to a criticality I think a desire but also a criticality toward one one's practice and that that is based and informed by a by a reading a reading of you know because some kind of reading about the the the scene and the format itself so it's not like making word making word like you know but but okay I have I have something to say because you know the scene is like this and I think I still can say something about this you know like a map about what's going on in with the form and then say something about this but of course it it is but of course I work with a very young emerging choreographers and you you know the approach is a bit different it's more about I don't know it's more about I don't like facilitating the word facilitating more it's more about being being being a comfort zone being comfort zone with them you know like as as someone to comfort someone that they can comforts and talk about their work and it's it's long it's a long process because of the education and everything do you think this time we are going through now the time of confinement that also you know all Asian countries go through some of them doing quite remarkably well actually compared to the world of perhaps, especially to the US where we are suffering under a leadership where we feel it is not giving appropriate responses and actually you know willfully neglecting to protect its people but do you think this time of corona something will change will that within that network which you are trying to create do you feel something is changing is there a different atmosphere of their thoughts coming out whether they are theoretical aesthetically or creatively is there something you detect that is happening now I mean changes are happening now we are in the middle of it so it's a no I'm observing now for example like Taiwan Taiwan I think is the best country to handle this in Asia and they they they never closed theater they I mean theater still open until and you know but they they change everything like you know like like only 30% of capacity can be filled and then everybody has to be so it gets a totally different procedure what I heard but isn't that amazing that you know they managed to stay open like you know until until now and I don't know I think the Taipei festival will kick off very soon and maybe they will also do you know like so it's a it's just like after so much travel like I mean reflecting on my own travel the last five six years it's crazy and now it stopped and you know and because these four five years we know all these spots like you know okay every February you would like to try to go to Yokohama called Chippa yeah and then now starting from 2016 or something you would like to go to be in Taipei every August or something you know you have the schedule and then then we have Australia who start being active again you know the last around the same time so you know with all this dynamic and all sudden you know everything stopped and and it won't be the same because these these places these events like festivals it was so international because of us coming you know because of us visiting because it's not only because it's all practitioners and professionals and then they would do like artists lab and whatnot like you know so it's so I don't know now that if I still hope that I mean in my heart of heart I know I believe this is it will pass and we just to how do you say it some of us are to overreacting to you know to toward this and that's why is is we will kind of like we're operating from our fear and our panic what is the next thing give us an example what do you mean for example I mean anecdotal I mean my two friends in Jakarta is my ex-housemates and I think they they live in a flat and then so they they they once two of them went to this big stadium like biggest stadium in Jakarta and then they have a big you know park and there was like nobody and then they cycled they cycled and there's nobody and then the guards like from afar spot them and rush came rushing to them and then like saying oh you have to wear masks and you have to walk like you know certain distance and they were like it's only two of us like and then we've been like we've been like neighbors and then we we've been walking already in this close distance anyway for like you know the last 20 minutes or something so that kind of reaction is you know to me is like instead of like yeah returning to your body because I think that's what you have and that's what you can rely on instead of like you know I mean it's so funny in in Jogja the first weeks people all rush to buy vitamin C of course and herbs like ginger and kakurma and turmeric in you know it's it's sold out like very quickly because it's also our habit to do so and yeah I mean I kind like it but not not if it's coming from panic you know it's coming from yeah from from calmness like you know from yeah from a place knowing that yeah I know my body I know myself and yeah it's moving slowly yeah do you feel something changed in you your view of the field your view of performance of dance of choreography of curating are you going to do act differently do you feel there's something that will be different or do you think we just wait this time out and then we reconnect to creating this archipelagos this Asian networks of theater performance and dance I think this online you know this digital format platform has been has been always there like for like sometimes now but we never really think think it as a language I mean some people some artists already use it you know as a language so it's a but but maybe there's a lot of possibility in that I think there's a lot of how to say examples about it but I don't want to cling only into this as the as the new reality I don't in my heart of heart I don't believe it but of course it has a function it has it has a place it has a place in our conversation and it has a place in performances as well but it's not it's not like you know it's not it's not the only one while I feel that people now it's the shifting is too fast like okay I jump into this and then cling into this because this is the future so this is like that what frustrates me is like that you know the new belief that this is the future of performance but yeah I'm still I find myself resisting to that idea because I think it's too soon so that festival that was postponed you're working on you are not at the moment not thinking to present in a different way you hope it will open spaces will be available and with modifications of audience numbers more or less will be able to continue original plans no because our platform is intimate and small anyway so I imagine it will be easy because we created this platform precisely to respond all the big things that happening in the region because I've been into most of these big things and I think it is you know it is important to but to me it's like it can only serve you know system for purposes like you know like because it tends also to be market oriented and in many contexts certainly in my context I mean you know performing arts there's no market for performing arts in Jakarta there's there's no that kind of dynamic like you know maybe in the region only Singapore can say that and the rest of us are not is still still fairly community based and of course we so the market that we serve is it's outside our own context so it's always this negotiation and you know when you go back home and then you know it's you know you go back to your practice so I think this kind of like conversation is missing in this big you know big platform that's why we created this because I think if we really need to know if you really want to know the region you know what is the issue what is the context we can't you know we have to be there and we have to start small we have to and we have to we have to be intimate and safe space because just like you know and maybe only focus on one or two things like you know like like in the Philippines for example there's one or two issues and that's it you know so it's a yeah it's a it's a I think I still think it's possible because it's a if we keep it like considerably yeah keep it as is yeah so perhaps this model of what you say of the small things of the small spaces could be a model also for you know for artists you know in other countries so tell us a bit about the platform what is the ideas what's the vision what's the manifesto headlines you know what do you what is important for for that what you created already before but as you say maybe this will work well in Corona time what is the vision of it I think it's a process is more important than product so you know and then understanding the localities the local context in regards to the you know it's very also it's very also important then you know then then the bigger one because it started by thinking about oh who are the Asian artists that you know are known abroad and in the first edition back into 2018 we came up with two names like Pichet Klong Chiang and Padmini Chitul because both of them both of them would you know have been produced by big you know theatres like all over the world like you know Padmini was produced by Shobuna and Shesha Waltz as early as 2001 for example and they so they they have a present international presence but somehow we know that this market this international market failed to see their body of work you know Pichet Klong Chiang only is known by its collaboration with Jerome Bell mainly but Pichet has produced has created more much more than that you know and then there is a trajectory in what he created and also Padmini so we kind of like deficit it is I mean in the first edition the first edition because because our smallness we pick only that solo and even like we went to Jogja and Jogja is vibrant in terms of arts you know collectives and da da da but then again we knew that when it comes to fame news for performing contemporary performing arts we don't have it so these artists have you know have to be patient to work with you know sometimes in impromptu fame news to present their work you know so it's a so that's also another experience for the artists you know themselves like Padmini said this is nice actually because normally I only come and perform and engage in panel discussion and go home but here you know she created such a program that she could meet other artists as well visiting artists who who presented their processes and she could meet local artists more and more time and because for example it was I really insist that you know there were only two small things like per day so there was enough time for people to really enjoy everything and not rushing and I think that this kind of rhythm you can't find it if you go to Yokohama in February because you always have to be on the move you know and then it's always in rush so it's a yeah it's but it can only happen in small city that's why we only go to small city and moving away from capitals and moving away from this yeah the usual art centers like Yokohama is small but because it's already like has one to big things we don't go there you know and so it's a yeah no so this is a quite a significant contribution and concept to say we don't go to the big cities we also finding out also in the US they don't fully work to support the artists long term or ensemble work because of economic conditions and to say we focus on small works and we also focus on the community artistic community but also the community of the place of the location where you are Jean-Luc Nancy the philosopher who was with us from France he said he didn't like sometimes theater it felt it's like a tourism you know you go you watch your home from the spectators where skiing doesn't really produce knowledge and but also from the performers who come in and then they fly back even the same night when the performance is over to go to the next place meanwhile to spend real time like to get to know a country or a place you know that that is something and many people we talk to also in seagull talks you know whether it is Virginia Barba in small places whether it is in Ravenna the company of from Italy of Marco Martinelli whether it's work done by Stacy Klein or others who say yeah in small communities it does work we are located there we are respected we can create conditions we do not have to serve the marketplace and they have a long life so this is perhaps a model and also you know in small groups it works like Peter Schumann and the Bretton puppet like models that have been there and perhaps with the corona virus what you dreamed up even before you know might be a way to think also to diversify and democratize the arts and to do so how are the audiences do the audience and do they come and see it do they connect to the work or do you have to build up and slowly educate how do you how do you it's easy it's easy because I think the arts the arts community is kind of like big in comparison to the city size and there's a lot of like this is like university city so there's a lot of students but the thing is I think visual art also performing arts community is is big here and vibrant but then again visual arts are more in terms of events and practices are more pronounced like you know there's a lot of ladies residencies and you have Vienna and you have a job which is like a kind of like art fair and but could it yeah with a difference that's that's how I would describe so but when it comes to performing arts it's not it's not on part to that so it's easy and it's easy for doctor when it comes to audience but in Rojas for example we found the audience is students not even student in college but you know high school students although they because it's small I mean but that's also refreshing for us because you know they they they they learn about the theater their own theater history because of course they were like encountered you know they they encountered they have their own experience but to have a deeper context for them is something so it's a yeah it's it's different and now how would be we are very curious I mean I've been only there once for research and Akane my co-curator before we decided on Naha she knew nothing about Naha she was like oh my goodness I didn't know anything I don't know anything about this and then so the last year I mean she start you know visiting Naha much more often and then we just we are just discovering Naha so it's yeah I just I still don't want to give it to give it up and then you know because nothing nothing can replace you know like I think another colleague trying to do that is another platform is called Karakawa I think is also Japanese and Southeast Asia because that's also the thing the last four six years Southeast Asia became the became the I don't know destination for for arts in Taiwan and arts in Korea Japan has been always here like through the Japan Foundation so we yeah they did you know the presence is here but you know it's because of the Olympic they set up that in 2014 special funding to connect Japan and Southeast Asia so this is like all of a sudden the last six years we were like oh my goodness we were in the you know in the at the center of conversation but what does it mean for us that kind of moment yeah no so this is really important for us to know that something serious is happening that perhaps instead of normal way that these kind of tourism comes and the group of Indonesia comes and plays La Mama on a sling festival that's no longer existing anyway but but just maybe to say go there and also spend time in some of the towns and regions where you present the work for create the work for and to also get to know a country and the context of of the work and your idea of the small or humble however one would say festivals with small productions and small cities I guess also was probably outside and some of the site specific work what you create outside the traditional theater spaces so this is a model that can be adopted perhaps also you know in an American landscape where it is also as you would say like the Chakatas you know of the of the world it is so much is in the big cities so much in New York even so Seattle Portland Los Angeles Austin you know are come up but still it's a very big country and there's so many places to be discovered so many places that have their own histories we not everybody takes a notice off and also performance history theater history and dance and music and there's a lot to discover it and perhaps it is a model that in the times of Corona certainly but so after the TAC as we say the time after Corona and that will get a second look to also produce art to live a life for an artist that is connected with the community but it's also a meaningful so what you do there what you are pioneering and what you are trying to connect is of important and it's good for us to to hear about and I hope I will be able soon to come and see some of the work you can prepare for a year in a small place with local artists with artists from other from significant artists but in communities so I think it is really a model of a of a new form for theaters in the form of producing and creating and and connecting and to give meaning to our lives and to also root the people in their communities so this is important we are close to the end of our talk and again I also would like you mentioned Junete so we had Moko Narwati for for for connecting us and to saying you know it is important we hear the voices you know from from your region especially from far away Indonesia and you know also that great traditional arts you have we also of course know more about so thank you what is the advice you would give to curators or choreographers artists or young artists how how should they use that time we are all in at the moment. It's because I just finished. You know, taking part of a course by online course by Pat Mimi. She did this course eight eighth session reflecting on her own artistic practice and it was really nice and some young artists asked the same question and I think she gave a golden answer because she said that yeah, take time. You, this is like this is the moment to take time, you know to to to slow down and to really think. You know what what you're going to do and where you where you're going and then to revisit your practice again to read again and then you know to things that you, you tend to push push aside you know in a normal busy days like you know but here is the moment to do that and yeah, I second a second. Yeah, her advice, I think it's. Don't rush and I don't know maybe it's easy for me to say it is because because I'm on the margin anyway you know in Indonesia we don't have such infrastructure so we know that you know when you are committed to do what you do in the arts and in some ways it's untouched territory and but then again, for example, you can also can be very easily seduced for example in physical arts, although we don't have this infrastructure but then again, you know, the market is dead in in in forms of collectors. We have lots. We have quite amount of Indonesian collectors and then you can easily distract it. You know, going, going all the way there and not really thinking critically about your, your own practice. So I think this is the time. To slow down. Yeah, to Indonesian way as you say and to learn from your, from your cultural artistic experience from your region and to really also take that as serious as a way of living theater is also a way of life theater artists shows theater also as a way of life and in the in the America it's a big provocation one of the biggest provocations today I'm an artist. This is already a provocation user why what why what does that mean and all that so so doing that what is the significance but also then to say yes we actually do slow time we take time we connect to our communities we listen and we engage and create something new so this is important. And tomorrow we will continue our journey around the globe if we have a demon matter from Lebanon to here from Beirut which is at the moment a very, very important but also complicated things in the last months seem really to collapse. There was some way to make things work after this devastating civil wars and you know the killings and politicians and fighting fractions and religious groups so it's a it's a it's a complicated time to hear what how do you make theater their performances and is that the Philippines the Philippines is also very very complicated at the moment. In front of we have a Richard Shackner with us as a closure of that four months experience what we have here and we also will take some time to think what to do how to process all that what we heard. So we will take a small break so it was really important to hear from you was good to see you again. Thank you so much thank you for letting. And I hope it was as inspiring for you and as it was for us and it is important, you know, to be connected and this is something we can do the world got so small we spent so much in our time in our apartments and we looked for windows but on the other side of connect globally was a link of a mail this one click we out with you and hear, hear your thoughts. So all the best for you and I trust and hope that the festival might work out the way it's organized it might have better chances and the Avignon festival because there's this much more complicated for them so thank you all things for hull around again for hosting us a VJC and to the Seattle team and the inside young and I hope you will be able to join us for the last two days. And I think we will be back in September October will see so thank you so much and we listen to you again. Soon I send healthy and to our audience stay safe do wear a mask it really really does make a difference and listen to what a healthy seven see how could that be meaningful in your own life to connect to the people around you and how to create a community to how to take steps and really also how to listen all my best and