 Welcome once again to the breakfast on PLOS TV Africa. Final conversation this morning is of course with the new Inspector General of Police and is directive to suspend the tinted glass permits for vehicles across Nigeria. This morning we are speaking with Femi Larsen, a public affairs analyst. Good morning. Thanks for joining us sir. Good morning. Good morning. Good to see you. All right. Good to hear from you. I said this a couple of days ago, it's like clockwork for every new Inspector General of Police, either banning tinted permits or banning roadblocks or withdrawing policemen from VIPs across the country. It happens with every new IG, but it doesn't seem like a lot changes. So what's your reaction to this new order? Is it going to be in any way different from the last one? I would not even want to call this a new order. We can only say, you can best describe this as a repeat of an existing manuscript that has actually been permanently placed on the table of every Inspector General of Police that has been positioned in Nigeria. I now recall that for a very long time before now, every Inspector General of Police that has been positioned and withdrew police ugly from politicians and VIPs, they all withdrew spy number plates and they all banned the usage of tinted glasses. So I think this is about a new order. But why we have continued to have successive leadership of the police coming to re-treat this position is because the police as an institution have continued to fail in enforcing the laws as a law enforcement organization. I can tell you that the IG should be more worried about the conduct of policemen in the police force rather than the use of tinted glasses, spy number plates and the line. But I can tell you for free this morning that if you drive a well-tinted, very dark vehicle across any checkpoint today, there are 10 days that you will receive more salute, there are no questioning from policemen who have been deployed on the road because of the culture of bread taking and inefficiency. So I think the IGP should be more interested in maintaining discipline and training in the police force rather than the repeat of this order by the juniors of the area. Alright so Mr. Lawson, to the bone of contention here regarding the IGP order to ban or suspend the issuance of tinted glasses permits, how have tinted glasses been abused in Nigeria? Or how does it in any way inhibit the work of law enforcement officers? This is what the IGP said as his reason for banning them. That's the fact, you understand that many people have used the cover provided by this tinted glasses to perpetrate crime, order of crime, to beat security checks over the time. But the question is, efficient security is not guaranteed by our well-converged perpetrators or not. Security is more of intelligence, is more information gathering. It's not just about being able to unravel actions that are taking place in that spot or that tinted glasses. But I think the police should be more interested in intelligence gathering and how we can curb crimes in the form of criminality in this country by working with the citizens, by gathering information from the citizens and by doing standard spitting practices, rather than limiting our focus on tinted glasses and the police point of our place. Do you think there's ever going to be an answer to a problem that you mentioned? You said the IGF police should be more focused on the attitude of the police towards their work and bribery and corruption and some of all of that. Do you believe that there would ever be a time when that is, you know, fixed? Well, the truth is that until not only the police have an institution, but the government itself is ready to reform what is called the policing system in Nigeria. You see, all these five big, good approach and shortcut attempts will lead us to no way. They will lead us to no way in finding solutions to the myriad of insecurities that are confronting us as a nation today. So it requires more than, you know, this, what I've described, as far as we get approached by the police or other security agencies to tackle the question of institutions in the land. It's a systemic issue. It's an institutional issue. And it is not what one man decrees, you know, or how that can solve. That is the reality. So now the IGP statement and orders is for immediate clampdown on those who have tinted permits. It says anyone who has tinted permits, who has tinted glasses on their cars, should be arrested. But this is a law or an order he just gave a deal to ago. Don't you think that it should have been time to, you know, sensitize Nigerians? Because I don't think it's everyone who's aware about this. Don't you think they should have given time, you know, notified Nigerians, given them time to change their glasses, instead of ordering them to be immediately arrested? Because, you know, this will definitely breed the corruption we're talking about, you know, stopping them at police checkpoints. That is why I described this as a far as we get approach. Let me tell you one thing for free. The police are not going to arrest a good number of people for using tinted glasses. Tinted glasses, people without money. As I speak to you, there are a lot of people who have been using these tinted glasses even without police service. Where, even when the law enforcement will be killed, you know, and the various police formations try to capture barbecues to, you know, to get these tinted glasses, I mean, of vehicles that have come with tinted glasses that we're going to process. But the question is this. The idea is that, as only opened another window of opportunity for the rank and file of the police, to extort other Nigerians, you know, who are far to the use of tinted glasses. I can tell you that nobody will be prosecuted for this deal going by the accusers of oppression of Nigerian police. The blame on these roadblocks across the Islamic, is going to become a war for you now, to travel between Lagos and the South East. Why you have to come across tens of numbers of, you know, of checkpoints? Because you have to pay price in all these checkpoints because you do not have a tinted glass on your vehicle without police service. So it's just another function of opening a window of bribe for people because police have not demonstrated any student's message in France, you know, to prosecute people who are violating this so-called order. I must also remember, as often the IG order, police order are not laws. People can only be prosecuted on the basis of laws that are existing in our paper. It is not enough. Anybody can just re-compine people and order. But we must look at how we can put every of these aspirations of orders of the police, or of prejudices into a law so that people can listen to the violating existing law, not violating IG's order. That is the truth. Oh well, I think this is a good point that you just moved into now. So what it means is that you cannot really be arrested for having tinted glasses because there's no actual law against it. You can't be charged, you know, for that. But can your vehicle be impounded? The vehicle, if a lot of times it has a challenge in court, not only against the police, it's not against neurotic people or other IG's. So it requires not of the court. So it will see the mobile phone. You understand? For the citizens, we are not in a banana republic. We are one person because we have, you know, gone or haven't said, you know, to a government institution cannot decree order, make decree that, you know, get the citizens property impounded. If you are going to be impounding vehicles, are you willing to approach the court to get an order of the magistrate or the icon whatever, or whatever, to impound these vehicles? Look at what has become of vehicles that have been impounded by police positions across the country to the past. They are all here roasting, roasting because no other either by, you know, marketing the world that was given if I thought anyone was given stupidly property. And policemen don't, you know, option is all of them are ridiculous, right? Some get to roasting the police formations without being able to, with owners being able to recover it. So we must continue to impart on the needs of our institutions to oppress by law, not by the wishes or aspirations of the leader, be it the governor, the president, the secretary of police, manager, director or whoever, we must oppress this country under law, not under the wishes or feelings of the individual. Okay, so back to the matter, the IGP is saying he's ordering the suspension of, you know, tinted glasses permits and saying Nigerians should not do this for security reasons. But you mentioned also that there should be a focus on intelligence, because when we try to look at the other side of the coin, there's actually benefits to using tinted glasses, you know, it makes your car cool, protects the upholstery, just prevents you from, you know, getting exposed to direct sunlight and all of that. So should the F, should the focus now not be on intelligence gathering and not just, you know, saying tinted permits are suspended and... Yeah, that is what security should be about. Security should not be about the number of guns or ammunition. You know, if the situation should be determined by the number of mines, you know, military mines or fire arms that a country, you know, can procure or force it, I think Nigerians should be one of the most secured countries today. This is a country where you can hardly work on any street, without being one policeman, one soldier or whoever, carry rifles, they want to go to cycles. But today we live in one of the most insecure, you know, societies in the world. Only yesterday, there was a report, you know, equating leaders to Damascus as one of the most unsafe places to live on head. And I think many leaders are going to have enough number of policemen. Is there about top a street that gets to a leader today that you don't find the presence of the police? But the question is that, we have been investing little or nothing in intelligence gathering, which is key to nipping crime in the boss. In this case, we're always waiting for crime to be perpetrated. But before you find out, will this man running off and out? No. What are we doing to ensure that these crimes are not perpetrated? And that is the work ethic of intelligence gathering. Are we able to nip these criminals before they strike? That is the essence of intelligence gathering. And I think our institutions must begin to invest more in intelligence gathering and cooperation with the 50B. You understand? In order to address our disability challenges, I can assure you that no number of amateurs, girls or whatever this country can procure can solve this problem if we don't begin to invest in the mental capacity, in the intelligence capacity of our spiritual prejudice. It is not like going around with girls and amateurs. All right. So from what you've said, does it mean that Nigerians should resist any questioning or harassment with regards to tinted glasses? Simply because there's no actual law that is made available to prosecute them or prosecute Nigerians for using tinted glasses. What should be the response of a Nigerian who is accosted by the police at a checkpoint for having tinted glasses? My first advice is that we can base on our experience and if you look at the issues of major police that are going to do with human rights violations and police brutality, I would encourage Nigerians wherever they come across police, whether at checkpoints or wherever to always listen and respond to their questions. What I'm opposed to is anybody telling bright other any guys to anybody other any guys are wanting to enforce the police order on tinted glasses. I also want to encourage the police organization to do more in legitimizing some of these orders where they get more crazy and not in the military room. And when these are done this must be brought to the cautiousness of the citizens as much as possible. We must understand that this you are in position today because of the citizens. You are responsible for the citizens and you should also yourself have lost over the citizens because where you are paying your salaries and wages after fear. Yep, Mr. Lawson. I think I would not say citizens should be dead yet but because it was a civil citizen was a civil and almost followed due process. Yeah, so what would you say Yeah, so what would you say is this due process? If you're driving, for example if you're driving in a friend's car tomorrow or your car sometime today and you know you're stopped by the police and questioned about tinted glasses what would your response be? Before this time after an order has been given after the deal that order was given I can tell you for free that people were seen at the various police command no finding application for the use of tinted permit you understand that if you go to the little police command in the KJIA you can find this after almost every hour people find it in a request. Most of the vehicles that are brought into this country today particularly the sport utility vehicles group up with factory fitted tinted glasses. So by implication are you saying if I purchase a car that is brought into Nigeria today with factory fitted in a tinted glassy will I have to stop using the car because of the police order? So no so there was a window given for people to who have to use their vehicles and that when the property is done and the deal process is laid like I did that promise that people they should go and apply you know for the use of this glassy but it cannot be treat people from moving you know with the country's right of movement it's a culturally guaranteed right because you think there are not any vehicles in tinted glasses I don't think that's the advantage I didn't have the advantage of of the construction rights of the people. All right Femi Larson thank you very much for your time this morning thanks for you know on bundling this conversation for us. Thank you. Good morning to you once again. You know and you know I personally never even thought about it that way you know it's no it's not law you know there's no actual law. Just like the Twitter ban it was just a declaration. You know so anybody can wake up tomorrow morning and say no more pepe in your stew. That's what that's it's pretty much similar yes I understand you know the security implications for you know these pronouncements by the IGP. So police will come check your stew. Yeah so they might wake up anybody it's pretty much the same with anybody waking up to say you know oh you know pepper is no longer good for Nigerians so you know use only tomato so it makes stew and then it automatically doesn't become law you can't be arrested for that because there's no law with which you be charged. But you know that most times when you when you listen to all real statements from press releases from the police you hear the IGP has ordered the state commanders ordered ordered ordered there was actually no law but you know the kind of country you live in just like he said that he would have given so much advice but when he takes into consideration the human rights violations by the Nigerian police force what really can you say at the point of altercation they can pull out a gun and just shoot you dead this is Nigeria. That's why I had to ask the question what should be the response of a Nigerian when your axe questions concerning your comply to do what exactly now to take the tinting off because but at that point he said it already this is just an avenue for all really it opens up an avenue for police officers to extort Nigerians because when you see when the police officers see some of the tinted glass I mean just like I mentioned no time was given they didn't say Nigerians are given the next 30 days 60 days to make sure that they get permits or if it's possible to change the glass you know nothing the statement from the IGP says immediate clamp down so if I have a tinted glass what do I do I shouldn't drive I should take an Uber or what do I do so it's just it's just like he says opens up an avenue for the police to begin to extort Nigeria best case scenario can you actually be taken to court can you actually be charged with thank god Justin Justin's trek is over so maybe but that's it here on the breakfast join us and contribute your quarter on Facebook and Instagram you can also comment in the comment section of our YouTube channel at plus TV Africa everywhere my name is Anita Felix thank you for joining us this morning and I am Osaugi Ogbonga see you at nine