 We're talking about leadership especially going into the well we already in the 21st century, but we're in this phase This is the open-source era So in your privileged job to be with a lot of leaders throughout time and different locations, right? What's your take on what has changed when it comes to leadership? I think the issue that's changed is is twofold firstly the stakeholders from which you have pushing against you Used to be you were only concerned with your shareholders, right? But now you have your shareholders. You have your suppliers Okay, you have your employees look at Google having to respond to their employees last week Demanding changes on the arbitration in sexual harassment. So you've now got employees shareholders suppliers customers yeah Customers saying they're not going to buy something or they are going to buy something so that's on the one side the pressures But the range of issues Has also dramatically escalated in the past, you know, you ran your company And you were a leader just on very narrow grounds profits, right now. It's a question of what policies are we for following and If you're talking about leadership at the greatest and highest levels, you're talking about moral questions, right? You're talking about moral questions, and yes, let's say it straight out. You're talking about same-sex issues You're talking about gender equality You're talking about where you stand between left and right and racism you're talking These are major issues that leaders have no question. No doubt now, but to get involved in so the scope now is a lot Broad it's broader and there are more constituents fighting the issue foot with you So in that regard what kind of leadership do we need we need people who are I Think the days of the I think the days of the technocrat leader There is a role for that person usually as a company's coming out of some troubles And you need or at least you need somebody to clean it up But it's a very company to grow and to thrive you need a visionary There was in the C-suite these days there are plenty of other C's The CFO deals with the finance COO deals with the running of the everyday operations CIT deals with the information technology CMR deals with your marketing So there's plenty of other people dealing with the different things, but you have to be the captain of the ship so and Some captains are quiet and thoughtful Satya Nadella at Microsoft is acquired and thoughtful man Some allowed bombastic and Richard Branson was a good example of a loud CEO, but in either case Everybody involved says that's the leader. That's who I'm following