 Aloha. I'm Marsha Joyner and this is Cannabis Chronicle, a 10,000 year audit. We really look at all of the things that are derived from that plant. Cannabis is a weed. It just grows. But what has happened in the last 10,000 years is that we have learned, the culture has learned that cannabis can be medicine, cannabis can be building materials, it can be religion, cannabis and food, cannabis and medicine, cannabis and dear old. So today we are going to talk to Harry Gorman, Director of Community Relations at the Maui Grown Therapies Dispensary in Kula, Maui. What a lovely, beautiful place. Thank you very much. It's so nice to have you. Have me as a guest on your show today, Marsha. Well, you know, of course, we are upset about the Governor vetoing Bill 290, especially since it came to him with strong support from the Senate and the House. But their rationales from the Attorney General's office read like they had not been in touch with the last 20 years of all of the bills and resolutions that have gone in to getting us where we are. So tell me, what do you think? Tell us, especially because, well, let me say this, by vetoing the bill, what it does, it puts an undue burden on people that do not live on an island that has a dispensary. And yet the state issues the card to anybody that the doctor approves they will issue the card regardless of their zip code. So that means that if you live in Molokai and you work on Maui, as most people do, and you commute, but if you're taking medicine and the cannabis medicine, let's say three times a day, once in the morning, once at noon, and once when you go home. Let's assume that that's your regimen. However, you're going to get on the plane, commute to Maui, go to work. Now, according to the rules, you would have to go back to Molokai, take your medicine and then go back to work. And then go back. If according to the rules of this bill or the veto of the bill. So tell me, you have patients on Molokai and Lanai as well as Maui. Tell us how that impacts that. Yeah, certainly we do. About 2% of our patients do live on Molokai or Lanai, and they do come and visit us often. I think this is just another example of laws that were written for the continental United States that are applied to a situation in the Hawaiian Islands where really it's inappropriate for the island. So as an island state, we do not have the same luxury that people in California and Nevada or elsewhere have to go from city to city and drive interstate just because of the geography of the island. So unfortunately, our Attorney General's office have, I think, interpreted federal statutes that outlaw, you know, carrying schedule one substance aboard an airplane. However, they may not be aware that the FAA regulations actually do make provisions for the carriage of marijuana aboard a civil aircraft if it's part of a state program. So actual federal regulations are in place to approve this. So that's the first thing. And I agree with you, Marsha, perhaps our Attorney General's office didn't understand or read the law in its entirety. And then in addition to that, here on the island of Maui, if you're going to fly to Lanai or Molokai, you'll be flying on a commuter airline. And those commuter airlines leave from a very small satellite airport connected to the main Kauleway Airport. And you don't go through TSA inspection on those flights. So it's not like anybody's going through your personal goods looking for something that you have. But even if they did that, it's my understanding from the TSA themselves that they are not looking for cannabis products. Unless, of course, they find something very unusual, like somebody carrying a very large amount with them. And even if that happens, all they do is refer that over to the local Maui Police Department. And if somebody has a 329 card, it's completely legal for them to have possession of cannabis in the state of Hawaii. So it seems to me like it was an unnecessary veto that the laws are in place to protect patients who travel within the state. And I think it's almost discriminatory in the sense that we're an island state. And, you know, it's not unusual for folks in Hawaii to go to another island for a long weekend or whatnot to go visit friends and families. And certainly, people who are using cannabis medically should have legal rights aboard an airplane for that kind of a reason, especially when it's nonsensical, in my opinion. And especially since there's what nine dispensaries statewide. So it stands to reason that if you live on Lenai, Nihihau, Molokai, there's no, there's just no way to get there except by an airplane. That's correct. Or by boat, of course, we have some folks that, you know, will use boats in between Molokai, Lenai, and Maui. Having said that, you know, I was at a meeting that was put on by the federal attorney's office a few months ago. And this issue of inner island transport came up for discussion. And one of the one of the State Department of Transportation persons who was at this meeting, she stood up and she says, but it's illegal to transport this on an airplane. And I pointed out the obvious state that, you know, the entire medical cannabis program in Hawaii is illegal, if you're only going to look at federal law, but we do have the right as a state to establish our own health care laws. And the state of Hawaii in the year 2000 said medical use of cannabis is legal and approved. And there is a program that's well regulated to oversee the use of cannabis medically in the state. So I don't understand how the state government kind of picks and chooses the laws that it that it thinks it should follow. On the one hand, they recognize federal supremacy, but on the other hand, they don't. So it's a little confusing for those of us, you know, in the electorate. If you look at the Supremacy Clause, and okay, let me get it right now. Amendment 10 of the US Constitution says the state has to give the feds the right to supremacy. It is not ordained. And that's correct. No. And then in 2006, I believe it was, that the Supreme Court affirmed that and said that the states have a right to create their own medical uses. And in fact, we use that because that was Gonzalez versus Oregon, and about medical aid in dying. And the Supreme Court said, yes, the state has the right to create its own medical uses. And that was the Supreme Court. Now, needless to say, yep, that's true. Needless to say that whatever our Attorney General's office has not looked at this, we have 20, 20 years now, 19 years. Well, let's make it 20 of all of these regulations and bills that have passed through the legislature. And apparently they haven't read them. Apparently they don't know apparently, even though Hawaii was the first state in the nation to change the name for marijuana cannabis, because marijuana is derogatory. Absolutely. It has racist roots. We don't use it. We don't use that term in our business, either, for those reasons. For that reason, the state changed it. And yet, our governor's office doesn't seem to know that the lieutenant, the Attorney General's office didn't seem to know that. And obviously the newspapers still call it pot and all the other salacious. Yes. Yes. And, and you know, if you read the rules about air travel, and they say that you can have alcohol, but packaged, because you can't take it on the plane. So it has to be packaged oxycodone, you can take on the plane. And that's a schedule to, and that kills people. Alcohol, right, does all kind of crazy things to you. But that's allowed. But cannabis, nobody's died of medical cannabis. Nobody has automobile accidents with medical cannabis. And yet, they don't want that on the airplane. Now that makes no sense. None. There's a lot that doesn't make sense. But as I said, the actual FAA regulations themselves say that, that it is legal to transport marijuana cannabis on a federal civil aircraft, if it's part of the state cannabis program, which we have here in Hawaii. So it isn't even in conflict with the federal regulation. So it's hard for me to understand the argument being made by the E. G administration. The fact that he just passed it off to the new Attorney General, and she is new. That's why I said, I don't think she's read all the history of this. I just apparently not. I mean, you know, the regulation that I'm speaking about is in the federal regulations part 91.19 under aeronautics. Right. Space. And here's the quote, carriage of narcotic drugs, marijuana, and depressant or stimulant drugs or substances, except as provided in blood, not allowed, blah, blah, blah. And then it says paragraph A of this section does not apply to any carriage of narcotic drugs, marijuana or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances authorized by or under any federal or state statute or by any federal or state agency. So in this case, we do have a state statute 329 that legalizes the medical use of cannabis in the state of Hawaii. In addition to that, it's under the regulation of a state agency, the Department of Health. So we are perfectly covered by this regulation by the FAA, yet Hawaii refuses to acknowledge this. And there are other states that have islands that do allow carriage of cannabis to those islands. And that's Massachusetts and Alaska. So it's not, it's not like this is unprecedented elsewhere. Now, there's one sentence that you read. And that is about depressants. Yeah. Okay. Now, the one number one recreational item in that list, that is a nervous system depressant is alcohol. Not only do they allow you to carry it, but they serve it, they serve it aboard planes. Yes, I know, I know. And, and you know what that does to the brain? And absolutely. And you know, I don't think any cannabis patient intends to use cannabis while they're in the air, correct? So I don't know, I don't think so. What the fear of what the issue is here. It's very difficult to understand particularly given the strong support in the house in the Yes. Again, I'm back to the attorney general. Because if you read and I'm sure you did, the rationale for the veto, it made no sense, because it was written by someone, I think, who a had not fully understood the rules of the state of Hawaii. Or just, or just plain, I don't want to do this. And maybe the governor just doesn't want, because he was pussyfooting around with this for a long time. Well, it's interesting, because, you know, the state of Hawaii was the first of all states to legalize medical use of cannabis in 2000, we were the first state that had the law passed by legislative mandate, every other state was by voter mandate. So the voters got together, they got the required number of signatures in order to have it become a law. Here in Hawaii, we do not have voter mandate, we just have legislative mandates. So I think it speaks volumes to the compassion of our legislative leadership that they they passed this law in 2000. And Hawaii was one of the pioneers in the legalization of medical use of cannabis. So this is a little in contradiction with the history of the state. I agree with you on that, Marcia. Well, and you know, by the, this isn't talked about, but I'm sensitive to it, by declaring that this whole thing is illegal. That means that any of the disabled people who are now being protected under the ADA rules by the state declaring that that just takes all the protection away from them. Any disabled person that is taking medical cannabis, because of her ruling, that just just takes the protection that the ADA gives them, because the ADA is very clear about that. But for the state to declare it, and it hurts everybody. Listen, we need to take a break. And when we come back, let's talk some more. We've got 60 seconds. I'll be right back. Thank you. Aloha. My name is Wendy Lowe. And I want you to join me as we take our health back. On my show, all we do is talk about things in everyday life in Hawaii or abroad. I have guests on board that would just talk about different aspects of health in every in every way, whether it's medical health, nutritional health, diabetic health, you name it, we'll talk about it, even financial health, we'll even have some of the Miss Hawaii's on board and all the different topics that I feel will make your health and your lifestyle a lot better. So come join me. I welcome you to take your health back. Mahalo. Aloha, I'm Winston Welch, host of Out and About. It's a show that we have every other Monday on Think Back Live here. We explore a variety of topics that are really interesting. We have organizations, events, and the people who fuel them in our city, state, country, and world. We've got some amazing guests on here like all the shows at Think Tech. So if you want to catch up on stuff, tune into my show every other Monday and other shows here on Think Back Live. It's a great place to learn about stuff, to be informed. And if you have some ideas, come on my show. Let's talk about it. See you later. And Aloha. Aloha. I'm Marcia Joyner, and we're back. And we're talking today with my new best friend, Terry Gorman, who is the director of community relations at the Maui Grown Therapy's dispensary in beautiful Kula Maui. Actually, our dispensary is located in Kahului, but I'm calling from beautiful Kula Maui. How far is the dispensary from where you are? Maui's so big. It is. It's about a 25 minute drive. We say down the hill, but from the slopes of Kaliakala into Central Maui, about 25, 30 minute drive. It's not bad at all. And it's the most beautiful commute on the world. It is. It is. And it's hard to think that Maui is so much larger than Oahu. And for anybody that doesn't know about the state, the oldest inhabited islands are at the very top, which is Nihihau, Kauai, Lanai, and each one gets a little bit bigger. And after Kauai is Honolulu. And then it gets a little bit bigger, Maui, and of course, Molokai, but it's not quite as big, but it's huge. And then of course, the Big Island, which is really big. Hawaii Island. Right. You know, we, we say Maui is the Goldilocks Island because it's just right. But I got to remember that the Goldilocks. Yes. Yes. And for anybody else that doesn't know the word Lahaina is hot. I got to tell you my Lahaina story, which has nothing to do with cannabis. Okay. Okay. Now, you know the word horny. And we understand when people say so and so is horny. Now, the story goes that, you know, when they picked up sailors and Boston, and they had to come all the way down the coast of America, South America, and around Cape Horn. And then back up and these the first landfall was Maui. And they say that the young ladies would talk about the sailors that came from around the horn as horny. Because, because they came, because they came from around the horn. And those were got it. Yeah. So that's where the word horny came from. And we understand that they were learning something new every day. They were out of their minds, crazy being at sea all their time. And there was no Panama Canal. The only way to get there was to go all the way around. Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yes, that's true. And then I'm sure once they got to Maui said this is paradise. This is what you say Goldilocks. This is perfect. This is the Goldilocks Island. It's just right. Not too small, not too crowded, not too hot, not too cold. It's just right. Yes. Right. So listen, now, part of this issue with cannabis, let's get back to cannabis. If you get this, the to the card, okay, now, so we've got the card, and we live on Molokai, with lots of land, not much water, but land. And it says that I can grow 10 plants. I don't know how to grow 10 plants. Where do I grow? How do I grow them? How do I harvest them? What? And I know that they don't give you any directions. Where do I get the seeds? How does that? How does all of that happen? Tell me, because I have no idea. Well, in fact, I think that's what led to the medical dispensary law, the passage of the medical law in 2015 was exactly that since 2000, medical cannabis patients did have the right to grow. Actually, at that time, it was up to eight plants at their growth site. So their growth site could be their own residents, or they could have a growth site that was tended by what's called a caretaker, caregiver. So your caregiver might live across the street or up the road, but they could, they could grow the plants on your behalf. And, you know, it worked for some folks. But I think when a lot of the research came out on the ability of CBD or cannabidiol, whole plant extract, to help children manage epileptic seizures, many of the parents had no idea because you're not going to give a child, you know, a cannabis joint, or you're not going to put the flower in a pipe and give it to a child to smoke. So the parents really would have to get into the process of extracting only the cannabidiol from the plants that were being grown at Tetra at Tetra. Now, having said that, there probably are a few folks who have that ability, but the vast majority of people do not. And I think that was one of the reasons that led to the cannabis dispensary law. Now, if you look at the Department of Health statistics for medical cannabis patients in the state of Hawaii, you'll see that the vast majority of folks who use cannabis medically are well over the age of 55. Some of those folks can grow their own plants. And, you know, they know how to cure them and use them and store them at Tetra at Tetra. But I'll tell you at Maui Grown Therapy, one of our oldest patients is 96 years old. He has no interest in growing plants. He has no interest in smoking cannabis. He only uses non-smokable forms of cannabis. And for that reason, dispensaries have become very popular with folks. In addition to that, everything we sell is required by law to be lab tested and quality assured. So any patient purchasing products from a licensed dispensary can, you know, feel good about the fact that there's no pesticide or herbicide residue. There's no heavy metal. There's no natural contaminants, microtoxins, etc. in that plant. And perhaps for folks that are young and healthy, that's not going to bother them. But for folks who are ill and have compromised immune systems, they don't want to be putting those kinds of things in their bodies. So another reason why dispensaries are so important for patients who are using cannabis medically. And of course, if you're living on an island where you don't have a dispensary, and technically the law does not allow you to transport those products back to where you live, you really don't have many choices. Well, I was my question about that is, you don't know what's in the soil, so you don't know what you're getting in the plant. So that's correct. Especially if you're growing in farmers sugar or pineapple land where a lot of chemicals, pesticides and herbicides were used in the cultivation of those products. That stuff doesn't just magically go away. And the other thing folks need to understand is that the cannabis plant, whether it be cannabis for in a very high THC cannabis or very, very low THC hemp, it's a very powerful phytoremediator. So that's a very fancy word of saying it's very effective at pulling toxins out of the soil. And in fact, it's one of the first plants that gets planted after like after Chernobyl where there's a radioactive accident hemp is one of the first things that gets planted there because it's so effective at pulling toxins out of the soil. So again, you know, you don't know, unless you're having your products tested, how clean they aren't. Well, so but now that that brings up another thing, you have to bring your plants from Maui to the lab on or who have them tested. Is that correct? That's correct. We do not have a lab on Maui. And so we are required to transport samples to the certified labs within the state. And currently, there's only one lab that's fully certified in that lab is located in Honolulu. We expect we expect and hope to see other sort of other labs be fully certified for testing. But right now, there's only one that certified to test all products. Wow. So honestly, this just really, we have to, well, I plan to keep going with this. And because we've got to go back to the legislature, I don't know what else we can do to see that this comes up again. And maybe maybe by that time, the lieutenant I meant the Attorney General will have figured out and will have read everything that has gone before. So I'm counting on you from Maui to keep this alive to keep this going. You know, well, we will certainly. But you know, I really have to do a shout out to some of our leaders in the legislative legislature. John Mizuno and Senator Rosbaker representative John Mizuno and Senator Rosbaker have been tireless champions of cannabis patients ever since the beginning of this. They tried to shepherd HB 290 through that got it through both the Senate and the House. I got that bill passed. There was a lot of testimony in favor of it. And as I said, I don't fully understand the legal argument made by the AG's office, but perhaps and let's hope that, you know, a year of more education and possibly some advisement coming from outside of the state may change their perspective on this. Well, yes, and I think that we need to look at it legally so that they do understand that by making this declaration, what it does to disabled people and how that affects the law and her comment was wrong. And how it affects individuals. And how is it that one department in the state now the governor of Hawaii and like any other governor in all of the United States has the most power. He has 18 agencies in his office. 18. All of those departments. And yet we have one department agriculture, who is trying to create a hemp industry. And then we have the health department who is trying to kill it. And then we have the AG's office who has no idea what's going on. And all of this is in the governor's office. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, the other thing that's very unique about Hawaii is we are the only island state out of the 50 states. We do have the territory of Puerto Rico. But Puerto Rico has two very small neighbor islands. It's nothing like the Hawaiian Island. And so, you know, I think oftentimes the assumption is well Hawaii's politically part of the United States of America. Therefore, we are required to be under American law. But if you look at American law, it's written for a continent, it does not apply to the United States. Many of the laws that were written for a continent do not apply to an island state. And, you know, I think not just state of Hawaii has to acknowledge that and change that. But federal government should do so as well. You know, now last this time last year, there was a bill passed for veterans. And it specifically says Hawaii and Alaska, due to the geography that the veterans now have certain rights that mainland veterans do not. And it spells out in the beginning of the bill, Hawaii and Alaska due to geography. Alaska has many, many offshore islands as well. And so if that part of the government and Cully and Honabusa was part of that bill, but if that part of the government could understand the geography and our own state understand the geography. And again, I'm equally confused by the veto of this bill as you are, Marcia. So as I said, I'm hoping we can spend this next year educating the AG's office and, you know, about the FAA regulations and the legal provisions there are existing in the law for the carriage of cannabis above a board civil aircraft provided as part of a state program. And certainly ours is a state program. It was one of the first programs out of all 50 states. Yes. And I'm really concerned that somebody on Molokai, oil and I says, let's sue, because this, according to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, this is state sponsored discrimination. And, you know, if somebody sues because this is an undue burden and the bells out in public accommodations, an undue burden on the state. And that's what this is an undue burden. Or people with you and the other provision in the Hawaii Medical Cannabis Dispensary Law is for cannabis patient to identify a caregiver who has the right to go into dispensary and purchase on that patient's behalf. And we have a number of caregivers who do shop at Marigrone therapies, either for end of life care or somebody who's bedridden due to advanced stage of cancer and whatnot. And so, you know, often we will get family members coming into shop on behalf of that patient. Now if this patient is living on Molokai, the caregiver has no choice but to, quote unquote, break the law to be able to bring those products to that person on the island who's suffering. And as I stated earlier, a lot of times people that are very ill or older want nothing to do with smoking cannabis. So the idea of, you know, growing your own for your own personal use is not a one size fits all for every situation. Well, Terry, we are just about out of time. So let's continue. We'll talk more and keep up the good work. We're counting on you over there. And thank you, Marcia. Thank you. We'll get you over here sometime too. You can come visit us on our Goldilocks Island. I'd love to do the Goldilocks Island. Thank you so much. And we'll see you next time.