 Aloha, and welcome to Talk Story with John Waihei. We are so glad to have you all today because I think this is going to be a very special show. And it's special because it is so current with what is happening in our world. And I have with as our special guest this afternoon, Robert Riley, Ambassador Robert Riley, who is the Director of Management Operations at the East West Senate. And so welcome, Bob. We're really pleased that you could be here. For the sake of our audience, tell us a little bit about yourself. I know that prior to coming to the East West Center that you spent a lot of time with the State Department, the United States State Department. Yeah, tell us a little bit about your career and the rest of it. Absolutely. Thank you very much for having me on the show, Governor. It's a pleasure being here. I actually spent about 40 years overseas internationally with the U.S. government, starting off in the Peace Corps as a Peace Corps volunteer, then I was Peace Corps staff. And then after that, subsequently, I entered the U.S. Foreign Service with the Department of State and spent 28 years in the Foreign Service in a variety of posts around the world, starting in Africa, went through Europe, through Iraq and Pakistan, and then Southeast Asia, did it quite a long time in Southeast Asia. So I've kind of been around the world with the Foreign Service. As the governor mentioned, I ended up as the U.S. Ambassador of the Federation of the States of Micronesia, which is not too far from here in the light. But you spent time in terms of our show today, you spent time in Pakistan, right? That is correct, yes. Got to know what America was doing there, essentially. Yeah, I mean, I was working at the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad in Pakistan, and we had a number of missions there. One chief mission, though, was to support the International Security Assistance Forces, or ISAF, in Afghanistan. So ISAF was the Coalition Force responsible for training Afghan military and police. And there are a number of reasons why we need to help them with that from Pakistan. It was actually a pretty complex operation. So this is an area of the world which you have some familiarity. That's right, yes. We're not just sitting here discussing something in theory. I mean, you've actually been in that area. You've been, you know, at least dealing with the issues, if not all of the characters involved. Now, why would the East, why is the East West Center involved with Afghanistan? Well, you know, the East West Center is actively engaged in assisting, well, East West Center students and scholars come from all over the Indo-Pacific area, which includes Afghanistan. So we do have students and scholars from Afghanistan. And some of them are currently caught behind the lines in Afghanistan under the Taliban. So when you say caught behind the lines, you mean these are people that find themselves that are not popular. I don't know how to say it, but the Taliban- Yes, they're at risk. They're at risk. In fact, I would say they're at high risk because the East West Center is affiliated with US government in some ways. They get appropriate money from the US government. So the Taliban considers students and scholars who are part of the East West Center as adversaries because they're affiliated with the United States. Well, and also, I just, anything seems like the Taliban seems to be against anything dealing with any kind of Western education or Western thought. Yeah, it's, the Taliban has quite a long list of folks they're not terribly keen about, don't really like. Obviously, US affiliated is a major one, probably Western in general, but in particular, US affiliated. There are some ethnic groups in Afghanistan, as are in particular, for example, that the Taliban suppressed when they were empowered before and we assume they will probably do the same this time, although their lip service says otherwise, they're saying that they won't do that. But the history in Pakistan is that they, with the Taliban, they do that with the ethnic groups, minority ethnic groups in Afghanistan. In fact, since we're heading in that direction, tell us a little bit about what you know about the Taliban. I mean, who are these people that seem to be jubilantly taking over the country again? And as far as I know, there were the bad people that we went over to among other things to stop. Well, the Taliban are predominantly Pashtun and the Pashtun is an ethnic group from the Eastern and Southern parts of Afghanistan and also Northwestern Pakistan. So, and they cover a lot of Afghanistan close to a half, I would say, in territory. And also probably maybe a fourth of Pakistan. So they have a substantial amount of territory in that area. And they are very, as everybody knows, they tend to be quite militant about Islamic religion and are suppressed in their previous roles in leadership there, suppressed pretty significantly those who did not go along with the Sharia law. So there are others in Afghanistan who are not of that persuasion. They don't believe that they may be Muslims, but they are not for the strict variety of Muslim religion that the Taliban insist on. Now, there's quite a bit, the Taliban tend to be quite mobile. So there was a lot of cross border flow between the tribal districts in Pakistan, which is where most of the Pashtun are located in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And that actually was where a lot of the Taliban were protected before they just took over recently. Well, you know, it's amazing, but in addition to being able to cross the border from Pakistan, I heard that the Taliban also have a large number of foreign volunteers, people who are just committed to most of the most radical forms of the Islamic tradition. So you sort of have a combination of both of these types. I would say that there are some fellow travelers, maybe that's perhaps the way to put it. The Taliban themselves are basically Pashtun, but they do have other radical elements that ride with them. Previously it was the Al-Qaeda. The Taliban insist now they do no longer support Al-Qaeda. They insist that very strongly. We shall see how that turns out as they consolidate their rule there in Afghanistan. So that continues to be the case. But they do attempt to show a more moderate side than they had previously. Again, it's hard to say whether this is lip service or if in reality they will be a more moderate force than they were when they were ruling previously. Which brings us to, I guess, today and the crisis. And so over the course of the number of years, I'm assuming have been in touch with people and scholars from Afghanistan. And how, where and how, how does all of this fit together? I mean, how do we, do we have any idea of who we, without naming any individuals, do we know somewhat how many people are from the East West Center, might be in Afghanistan, might need our help? And what can we do about it? We don't, I don't wanna give any specifics on this, but we do know some, yes, absolutely. So you know that, you know in fact, that there were people there that were in danger so far. And in fact, we are actively engaged in assisting some of those East West Center students in color. The scholars caught behind Taliban line. So we're working with them now and trying to help them in their current situation. Again, I can't give too many specifics on what we're doing because the Taliban is scouring the internet for information about people they consider adversaries in Afghanistan. So I do need to be careful about any details, but I think that will be, you will see a lot more once this is all over, you'll be hearing more about what we have been doing with some of these students and scholars. Well, when you say we, I'm assuming that you are, there are other institutions. Absolutely, oh yeah, I'm not working alone. We have a whole team here at the East West Center that's working this very hard. It's a really tough job. We're working 24 seven basically. We're in Afghanistan, Afghanistan day is our night. So a lot of the activity is happening late at night. People are up late at night working with these folks. And in addition to that, in addition to our great team here at the East West Center, we're coordinating with a number of US governments and non-US government agencies. There's a lot of people working this issue. Well, it's an amazing, whole amazing network of folks. We're actually doing an incredible job with the evacuation, quite honestly. It's in terribly difficult and complicated, complex situation. Well, you know, just for, what is the situation? I mean, did the United, what is the United States? Are we just like walking away? I mean, what is it like on the ground there? Before we get to any... Yeah, well, okay. You know, I guess the best way to put it is certainly outside the gates. It's pandemonium. I mean, the Kabul airport is basically an island surrounded by the Taliban. So it's an island of US forces and coalition forces. And it's from that island that that evacuation is occurring. So it's quite, it's a very tenuous situation, very difficult. So this is an island in the center of a country that is controlled essentially, or in the center of a city that's controlled by the Taliban. And that's the airport. Now, are the regular flights going in and out or? Yeah, so we've been watching this over the last week or so, a week to 10 days. And it's been quite irregular, especially at the beginning. At the beginning, there were not many flights and they had a lot of logistical problems. For example, at the transit points, in particular Qatar, where a lot of these folks are going to transfer to other countries, they are processed in Qatar or one of these other transit points that they've since developed. And I think there's one in Madrid, there's one in Paris, there are others around. But they were getting overloaded. And so they couldn't bring any more people in. But now, you've probably heard this in the news. The US government has asked the US commercial air carriers to help relieve that bottleneck of Afghan refugees at the transit points. And this in turn has allowed more people to be evacuated from Kabul. So the situation in Kabul is better. There are more people being taken out by plane. Okay, we got a break coming up right now and we'll be right back. And I want to start bringing this conversation more directly into what East West Center is doing. So we'll be right back. Thank you. Aloha, my name is Mark Shklov. I am the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program. Being a lawyer has many aspects and I try to cover them every time I do a program of law across the sea. Not everything has to do with law or being a lawyer per se. Some of it has to do with the people you meet, the things you see, the places you visit. And that's what I try to combine in Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Thank you for watching. Aloha. Welcome back to Talk Story with John Waihei. Aloha again. And we and our guest this afternoon, Ambassador Robert Riley, who is the director of management operations at the East West Center. And he is describing for us the East West Center's involvement in a very large and very current operation, which is to doing its best to get people who are not wanted in Afghanistan back here where they might be safe, or at least back to someplace that's safe. So Bob, we were talking about the fact that there is this network of people that are involved in all of this. And you were describing what it was like on the ground in Kabul at an airport. So why don't you continue with that description? But just to give a little bit more kind of flavor to what's happening on the ground. You know, I'm sure a lot of you folks have seen the airport, the pictures of the airport, lots of people outside. It's quite, as you've probably heard, it's quite difficult to enter the airport right now, or since the beginning really. Even for those who are non-U.S. citizens but have visas, and there are a fair number of those. They're having enormous difficulty getting in. Some are getting, I would say, probably the majority who go there do get in, but some are not getting. And it's a very kind of inconsistent sort of process. So that's been difficult to deal with. There are also lots of bottlenecks around Kabul. Bottlenecks getting in the airport. You know, as you've probably heard, there are checkpoints, the Taliban checkpoints, or everywhere, you know, there's just one after the other. The, of course, at the entrance, there's a bottleneck because there are people trying to, a lot of people trying to get in through these gates at the same time. And some of them really are not eligible to be evacuated. We're looking at people who are at high risk from the Taliban, because it's been particular. Can you give us a broader explanation of what who's eligible and who's not? There are some people who have been working directly with the US government. They are getting special immigrant visas or SIVs. They are probably the highest priority for Americans to be evacuated. So I mean, I'm assuming the first priority would be US citizens, right? Well, of course, yes. US citizens, NATO citizens and green card holders, are there the first priority? And that's a given. They, in fact, when it comes to US citizens, we have a, the US government has a legal obligation to get all those US citizens out. So that's something they have to do, and it is the number one priority. But in terms of the Afghan folks, which are the folks we're working with, these center folks are all Afghani. The at-risk folks are those who are affiliated with the United States, or United States entities, such as us. Then of course, the non-post-tune ethnic groups are at higher risk. Women, especially those who promote human rights are at high risk. And other human rights defenders of NGOs are at high risk. And finally, journalists are at high risk. So anyway, the gates are open and closed at randomly. You never know when they're gonna open, when they're gonna close. Yesterday, they were closed for the entire day. And then why was that? That was because they were prioritizing, just as you said, US citizens, NATO citizens, and green card holders. So no Afghani has got in yesterday, or very, very few. Now, we think that's gonna change today, but we're not really sure. We're working on a couple of cases here. We'll see how that works. But- So how do you communicate? Now, first of all, with the authorities. The people who are in charge, to let them know that I'm assuming that there is some kind of communication with people who are affiliated with the East West Senate. But what about just the people in charge of the effort? Yeah, let me kind of, I can't give you all the details because I don't even know all the details. But there really is a whole amazing network of government and non-government folks who are doing an incredible job with this evacuation. We are, we initially started with the US government. We provided, we had to provide letters saying that they would support these folks. But we were also working with private entities, some of whom we don't know who they're working for, I'll be honest. And they're doing an amazing job. Well, so the point being that this just didn't start like two days ago. I mean, in order to have been working with some of these people, you must have started earlier. We've been working since a week ago yesterday. We've been working on this. So it's been, and it's been 24 seven since it started. So tell us about these amazing organizations. Yeah, I mean, so, well, I can't say a lot because I don't know much, but we have people that we're going to, we're saying, okay, we're concerned about this particular person, can you help? And then they find somebody in Afghanistan who is, who then helps? Someday, I've been assured, someday their story will be shared, will be told and we'll know a lot more about it. But right now, we don't know very much. It's actually- So we got, you've got an angel network, essentially. I said, you're essentially tapped into an angel network, a network of- Exactly correct. An angel network. People who you would describe, at least I would describe as angels, you know? Yes, it is exactly that. And it's just, they're doing a fantastic job. I mean, it's just amazing. What about people that are, I mean, you've had a great State Department career. I mean, is there any kind of like little network where you call somebody that you worked with and said, hey, Victoria, I got, you know, I need some help in Kabul and they call somebody and is there anything like that? I did know a couple of people at the embassy in Kabul, but they have left. The actual, the numbers of people left at the embassy when it was evacuated was pretty small. And I didn't know any of those folks. However, since then they brought in other consular officers to help with this huge and long as effort. But I am not aware that there are any of my acquaintances in that group, I don't know that. So unfortunately, I don't have any contacts there in the embassy. But, you know, the foreign service is huge. It's huge. There are some like 10 or 15,000 people in the foreign service. So, you know, it's, I do, I did know a few people at the Kabul embassy, but they were evacuated early. So I was not able to. But they might know somebody and everybody, who knows who's the angel out there and who might come through. Yes, and again, I think a lot of these cases, they don't want to be known right now for a variety of different reasons. And I, Absolutely. And so, you know, I want to, I'm respecting that they're concerned about that. And I don't want to, I really don't want to talk much about it. So tell us, I mean, the involvement of the East West Center is because our, I'll use this phrase, our people are at risk. People who have been part of the East West Center family are there at risk. And you've been working on it for about a week now. I know that it's difficult to share specific information, but tell us if you can, to the extent you can, a little bit about excessive, about your successes in the past week. And maybe some of what you hope might happen in the days to come. Hey, I, yes, I can say that in a very general terms, we've had, we have had some successes. And, you know, it's, it's because of the efforts of many different people, including the angel network you mentioned. A lot of people here at the East West Center have been working very hard. We have a whole team here that has been working this issue for more than a week. And it's been, it's been grueling. It really has, but we have had some successes. So it's, it's worth it. We have got much more to do and we don't have much time. So it's going to be, it's going to continue to be quite grueling until the very end. I can see that now. But that's, that's, it's a, it's such a worthwhile cause. And I guess the East West Center is taking the stance of not no one left behind, you know? I mean, we're going to go after everybody. We're doing everything we can to get the part of our family. And so every, for every single person we know of in Afghanistan, yes. Well, you know, it's, it's amazing because for a lot of people, the East West Center may be seen as some kind of stodgy research institution. But what you're talking about is an institution that actually has the ability to help those that are part of the family or put, you know? Absolutely. I mean, the amount of concern that has been expressed by every member of the East West Center, we're getting an incredible amount of support on this. And, you know, it's, it's really tremendous. I think, you know, I think that the East West Center has been just tremendous in its support of these efforts and I think, honestly, I think the East West Center will be proud of the results when it's all over. Well, that's fantastic. And I'm sure that when you say East West Center, we're also talking about that network of alumni that you have out there. That at some point. That angel network though, the angel network has many more clients than us. They're dealing with many, many different organizations and they're doing it very well. So that, they are the stars in the effort. Are we, are we? Well, you know, I wanna first of all congratulate you and congratulate your team for the work that you're doing and to tell you that it's heartwarming to know that there are people out there who are willing to put it all on the line so that somebody else, in this case, a member of our family can have a better situation than where they are. So first of all, thank you very much. And for the listeners out there, I hope you get a sense of what, first of all, the East West Center is about in a special way, in addition to all of the academic things that it does. It does have a network that on time to time, may be well used. So congratulations, Bob. Thank you very much and good luck. And our prayers are with you and with all the people who are involved. Thank you very much. Aloha. Thank you. Aloha.