 HBC Dodgers Radio Dodgers have the dark thanks for joining us for another Engaging episode of unfiltered and uncensored talk with young alumni from historically black colleges and universities joining us tonight Tiff bout to be throwing off the show at midnight Winston For a big big big show tonight. So to kick things off today was the Appeal hearing for Bennett College with the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on colleges A couple of headlines to come out of this meeting one Bennett released a new fundraising total for their staying with Bennett campaign over the I guess the Later part of January and most of February ongoing. They're now at nine point five million dollars So this is the number that they went into the appeal hearings with sacks Which has a week from today to announce their decision on whether Bennett will Be reinstated as a member of the association and get their accreditation back. So Apparently it's not without precedent There have been schools that have had accreditation revoked or there's been one that I've been able to find Which did a similar thing raised a lot of money and got back in and they've been rolling ever since The question will be is is this going to be the situation for Bennett now nine point five million dollars is Nothing nothing to to to shake your head at like that's a serious number especially for that campus But all three of us with our you know, I guess just passing knowledge of accreditation in these kind of reviews Do you think that number is big enough in the eyes of both the accreditation? Review committee and the public which is going to be pressuring for it to be big enough Do you think that this is going to put them over over the top and get them back into sacks? Is once they're going first or am I going no ladies first? um I I hope so And clearly the people that have continued to donate to Bennett Clearly want to see it be enough and or more I'm interested to know if they are still taking in a steady amount of donations and Even after we get to Next week and get a decision from sacks Like I said on the previous podcast Even though they don't have to I want to see a strategic plan Like I want to know like you ask people to invest What does that look like? Well, that's the interesting thing and I and we touched on it previously But let's say they do do they do reveal a strategic plan Or what that the school is building as a re-engineering of Bennett College, right? Let's say they do publicize that What if people don't like it? So and Winston I'll take it I'll kick this to you So what if you as someone who sends people to school you have tried to send people to Bennett in previous years? Um and a lot of North Carolina schools, what if you get a chance to look at this strategic plan and you say Uh, I don't know if that fits for my students. Does that mean that you stop? Even though the school potentially could remain in business Let's say they get the accreditation back and the strategic plan doesn't look like Something that totally redesigns the college. Are you going to say like okay? I'm out because I don't like this plan Um, you know, so, you know, we the dealing with our young people in general and their families We try to be as transparent as we can be about the things that that we're aware of if I you know came across it And it was had concerns for it. I think that I would put it on the table I would definitely not hide it from parents who had, you know concerns that were curious about it I would implore whatever, you know Knowledge I have one if I was able to correspond with somebody There from the school and see what they're trying to say to To us and to others about what it is. I mean I wouldn't I definitely wouldn't hide from it I think in general I would have concerned if they were turned away. I actually feel kind of Confident in the fact that there's been so much of a media storm behind the situation as well I think putting that spotlight on them kind of has everybody On on their best behavior so to speak as far as the accreditation folks taking a look at, you know What the backlash could be if they you know were to refute it and then Bennett's responsibility as far as making sure that they are doing They're into the bargain and having a decent plan in place and knowing that folks are going to be watching them intently seeing What they choose to do or not do so Um, I would definitely not hide from I don't think we would hide from it And we definitely like I said we try to put as much information in front of our parents and students as possible To make the decision to find a best fit for their for their part young person So, you know, I mean I would I would be open and honest as much as I could about the situation and what I knew One of the things that goes wrong with with hbc uses everything comes with a price tag, right? So every time something major happens There's a tendency not to be as transparent as as we probably should be as Because the concern is that if I tell you Okay, let's say our our heating system failed If I told you the the full cost of what it would would it would be to replace that In several of our buildings some people may just say well that we can't do that And they won't give or they won't contribute or It's not something that they they believe in um, and it's way different to talk about Academic redevelopment, um, you know a physical plant all those kind of things that make up a college Versus the thing the one thing that gets everybody excited about giving to an hbc, which is scholarships for students So I wonder if No matter what happens with the accreditation decision Is it Unless they unless they they've positioned supporting Bennett and the future of Bennett around Bringing in more assistance to the campus Is anything they say of value? Um, because you could say we have a totally New outlook on academics We have a totally new outlook on the caliber of student We're going to bring in how we're going to make sure that they can afford the education But is all of that matter unless they do something really really crazy or dramatic and just say hey everybody goes to Bennett is free You know for the first two years, you know what I mean so There is having a totally different outlook and everything you just said but The reality behind all of it like We heard on the first podcast with shine What her and her alumni Posse we're talking about on the second podcast with The president and the alumni the national alumni chapter president and Board member What they were talking about And it was two different things But to be fair it's always two different things from people who are Really really close to the bills and close to the administrative process versus folks who are close to the school It's one thing and that's it Right and we said that before it's one thing for you to be Someone who lives in the house is another one to be paying to mortgage in the utilities And that's where we have to or they not we but They have to they as in the administration and those who Essentially pay the bills have to come to the table to those who just live in the house and craft something That represents both both parties and right now we know is at least you and I know That they ain't necessarily at the same table talking about the same thing And they can't continue like They both want Bennett to to thrive and clearly they want it Bennett to survive, but they need to get on the same page and it needs to Yield something that looks like yeah, we all on the same page over this way right now It ain't there how specific do you think that their plan should be Winston? Because a lot of times when you see a school put out a strategic plan you will see notes like um, we want to improve the average sat score of of our first year first time income and freshman by 20 points 30 points and we want um our attention rate to increase by 15 percent over the next five years They don't really provide details about how they're going to get there They just say these are the the areas of focus that we're going to have over the next five to 10 years With Bennett because it's such a a unique situation Do you think that people are going to look for more detail? Or are they going to look for signals in the broad things that Bennett may present to say This is what we're going to do to be a different kind of school You know, I think I think in in this scenario. It's kind of got to be detailed I mean I'm my hope would be that we use some of that $9 million to to pay somebody to really put together a valid plan And I and that means sourcing, you know Hopefully to me would be sourcing at home first any alumni who are in the position to do that Or maybe I've experienced in that realm and then even just on a larger scale from the hbcu landscape on seeking And and paying for the assistance needed in order to put together a really good plan Looking at some of those other schools who maybe have, you know Come out of the darkness in certain situations and those who are thriving, you know down the street from them And really putting together something that's going to be detailed. That's going to say this is what we're doing You know in recruitment This is how we're going to You know go against the the things that would happen before and try to You know go away from the things that we were struggling with prior to and not again in the same scenario not hiding from The issues that they've had and you know the test point that's going to require them to You know get closer on one accord and do what's necessary in order to do that But you know if you're if we're as serious as we As we put our wallets up to be and preventing them from going away Then it has to be that drastic in you know putting forth the effort and and doing things differently than maybe they were Done before you know in order to see you know to hopefully not have an issue of losing You know being in this situation again and having to lose one of our schools Like it's going to require them to be drastic and put together a detail plan behind how they're going to change recruitment How they're going to you know add programs that maybe they don't have before how they're going to go against the grain and push the envelope You know in order to get young ladies to come uh to bend it And so I think people are going to call for more detail and more transparency But the moment you get detail like that is the moment and this is as you said people are going to criticize it Because it was already happening before they had a plan Where you had your your graduate saying here's what you ought to do So it almost seems like there's a foundation for If you say anything other than what I suggest is you do i'm not backing it And I don't believe in it. So I wonder what is going to be the process of getting Some of the uh, the the younger graduates on board to support whatever it is they put out so And and as in as as hbcu alumni We are perfectly within our rights as individual people to hold our own opinions But what I aspire to do as an alum Even if I do disagree with what my administration is doing That shouldn't Determine me from being my best alumni or best alumna self I aspire to yeah, if I disagree with what my current administration is doing Cool, I may not show up to an event, but I'm a cut of check I'm gonna send a donation Because at the end of the day That administration is going to change over But don't you think that that that helps to Support an agenda that you don't care for I'll give you a perfect example Let's say how it says we want to be 40 white by 2025. Are you co-signing that with a check? My checks in that instance Will be cut directly to the Howard university alumni club of detraits on endowment in detroit is 90 something percent black But you but you see what i'm saying that that's how a lot of people get hung up because they hear these rumors about Oh, the president is stealing what usually is in the case Or oh, I don't like you know how they treated my cousin when she worked there You know and that's only but people also don't realize how much how much control they have over what it is that they can Do if you get 30 people who may or may not feel how you feel But they got money to put with whatever emotion that they have Go and start your own scholarship give directly to the students until you feel like giving to your alma mater I don't care How you feel I don't know our literal students in the balance either you're going to give to your university or your college So that they can do what they need to do with that money or you need to give it to a student or a student organization It really is that simple. Why don't you just give it to another hbcu? Or that too or you and cf or tmcf whoever But just being mad and ain't doing nothing behind it. That don't make sense I don't know. I think my my approach is because i'm not happy with the administration in my school and my approach is to do Is to still give But not give to my full capacity. Um, because that way i'm still uh, well You know, because let me tell you something Before my before I got my current pastor. Oh lord people people gradually stop giving as much And then once we got a new pastor Oh the giving came back Yes, it did people speak with their money people speak with their money. I mean and that's a that's that is an effective communication tool It is one that the board looks at like if okay, your alumni giving is down So that either means one you're not talking to them or two that if you are talking to them They don't like what you have to say with you, right? So, you know that that that's effective. So I don't think it's It's totally irresponsible to talk with your money. Everybody else does that. I mean we see White schools do that all the time All the time if they if they if their alumni get really mad at the president They'll call the senator. They'll call the governor. They'll call a whole bunch of people and say look if you don't fix this If you want to stand for it, we're not going to stand for it, which means I'm not doing business with you I'm not giving money to that school. I'm not doing a whole bunch of stuff Especially with athletics Coaches fire when boosters say we're tired of this. We're not giving any more money. No, absolutely. Absolutely. So I I'm I'm okay with money talking. I mean it's just I agree with you that we tend to be more We we live more much more on the edge with that Because you could make the difference in people being upset between You know 10 15 20 students being able to come back to school the following semester So, I mean it is a delicate balance and it's going to be interesting to see in a week's time How long sacks is going to take to make this announcement? Are they going to take it down to the wire? Or is it going to be something sudden that just says you in or out? So and either way No, go ahead. I'm sorry. I think it's delicate. I think like I said, I think you got this spotlight I think that may be why consider taking this to the final hour Because they're looking to see everything that goes on leading up to this this decision Yeah We're going to take a quick break. Uh when we come right back I kind of want to continue the Bennett conversation with one of the big advocates and uh his being in the news lately Justy small let this is that just after dark. We'll be right back That just after dark. We're back. Uh continuing the conversation about Bennett college In their effort to rejoin uh sacks and be fully accredited and what it's going to take in the level of transparency they're going to have to have with the supporting public Which is funny because as a private school With so much support from across the country in a lot of ways they may have to function administratively like a public school They may have to be a lot more transparent and a lot more open with the decisions that they make in terms of how they're going to survive Uh, but one of the interesting things about uh Bennett is that One of the biggest celebrities that came out in support Probably one of two big celebrities that came out in support of the school The first one was Jamal Bryant Is he a celebrity? Yeah, he's a celebrity. Well, no, he is no national really you hating but he is a celebrity. I'm not hating I just wouldn't classify him as a celebrity. You don't like him. Um, no, I didn't say that so, uh one of them was Jamal Bryant the other one was justy small let and he He apparently be lying So, I mean if this if this bears all the way out to be true Now here's the question I have jesse. He got attorneys writing form He got a public relations firm writing form if you telling the truth Why does anybody got a why does anybody else got to got to write for you or talk for you because he's traumatized What do you mean? Nope Nope, there's so there's so many stories. There's There's just there's a lot of layers to this story. There's so many things to unpack and try to Upheal. I don't even I don't even know where you start. I don't even know where you start I'll tell you what it's not the two night who went to the police and said he paid us. Here's the proof I got the receipts for the rope. I got the receipts for the klois bleach The hat wasn't a maga hat. It was a regular red hat that I got from finish line all this That It's over It's over It's over so The question I have is that so jesse because of this whole thing we've been it Could have been should have been on his way to being a legit hbcu advocate And the celebrity kind of universe, right? Because when he threw on that shirt, it was like, oh, you know Jesse from from empires is standing with Bennett. That's so cool And it could have been one of those things like it could have introduced the conversation With tmcf or uncf to say, oh, okay. This brother clearly has an interest in black colleges Let's see if he can help us You know with some benefit concerts or tap in his circle for fundraising or helping us to to make introductions to corporations He may have been working with You know what? Let me tell you something If Ralph Northam We're gonna talk about that next An apology tour If jamal Bryant can keep a church Wow for years. Why do you keep dragging jamal Bryant? No, no, no, no Let me finish If he could do all those things and then stop Even if jesse is lion made this up and paid for it He deserves forgiveness Uh, I mean biblically Biblically And grace do you forgive him? I don't want to believe that he would even make something up like this. He lied to robert robert man Let my mama tell it. My mama said he was she was giving him looks like man. You better not be gasping this story I didn't see it. I didn't see it if you was she was like you were giving it He was giving her all kind of mama looks like negro if you are you better not be lying You can't lie to robin robert's You can't why she's too much of a professional And not only that she's beloved. So now you to made her stick her neck out to tell to help you tell your story Yeah, and you out of there a lot So he really looked legit like if this is if this is what it what it seems like it is that he made this up He needs one of those claire huckstable dragons Absolutely He needed to make out like elven like he needs he needs all bad If it's true, I'm a hundred percent in the green somebody gotta elven him On national television, these would be on like bet somebody got to like somebody Some some influential wise black woman needs to literally dress him down in front of the nation It's definitely it might have to be claire huckstable shout out to howard. Um, she might have to drag him Y'all are so annoying. I'm just saying like look because This is more than him losing his credibility. This was somebody who again jumped out there to support a black college Just out of nowhere I mean, I don't I'm not even sure I've heard some stories about what was the what were the connections between some of the Bennett graduates, you know, some of the bells knew somebody who knew somebody and they knew him They get him a shirt. He puts it on. He puts it on that That that made a big difference to have somebody like that in the campaign That was a picture that was widely circulated It probably got a lot of people who didn't go to hbc used to think oh if he's talking about it Maybe I should be invested in this And now you're lying. Oh, so you we're we're we're one. We don't have we're one advocate down legit No, no, we're we are not one advocate down because we legit Don't have any perfect hbc you advocates. We got strange bedfellows all of us. That's fine I don't believe we should be talking about jesse in this manner like that No, I think we should I I do think we should like you you stand informant. That's cool And and again, I do want to emphasize the story is not yet been told in its entirety He hasn't admitted to anything the police haven't conclusively said the case is closed. He was lying. Yep So and the police be lying is Chicago. Please do be lying. That's right But I think that what you have here Right, but are you then saying the two Nigerians alive? Oh man Uh, so yeah to the point about the uh, we can't afford to be losing no advocates We can't I mean, you know like lost an advocate. I know what I'm saying. I'm saying in general I'm not saying we have I'm not saying we have I'm not saying that personally I'm saying in general We can't afford to be taking them out from people who who are advocating on the behalf of hbcu Especially in the celebrity in the public realm the way that That that just he was in this instance like we can't it cannot be afforded to take those Here's another reason why when when this happens to different black celebrities A lot of times they will look back to the black community like help bring me back And some of the ways is your playing clubs and you know, majority black cities starting to work your way back around the circuit Another part of that circuit is hbcu's So I I don't think it would be a far stretch to say like yo at some point He's going to somebody's going to bring him on campus to tell his story And then another and then another and then another and you know, as I said, we're going to get into the Ralph northern conversation And I don't I to your point to I don't think Jesse is irredeemable I think that this is one of those situation is if I was running PR forum I'd say you need to you need to go hit an island for like six months We don't need to see you. We don't need to hear from you and the next time we do hear from you Your comment is I f this up Yeah, and I need to work my way back Because you brother were literally coming out saying I'm the gay two pot you lied to Robin Roberts You had to bend a shirt on the sisters was riled up because you had a shirt on We're down. We're down. That was somebody that could have brokered a lot for hbcu's Like we're not we're not talking about chris paul You know who wore a shirt, you know chris paul didn't go to an hbcu neither did jesse apparently but He was somebody that chris paul wears a shirt To to say i'm wearing an hbcu shirt Jesse was wearing a shirt to say save the school That's a that's a big difference between chris paul wearing a Winston salem jersey And jesse wearing a shirt to say stand with Bennett. You am I making sense with it? That's a big difference. That's a big difference in statement You mad so what are you mad about? I'm mad Why you don't why are you avoiding this conversation? I'm not avoiding especially since you've been you've been trying to replace jesse with with jamal Bryant and drag him and say it I have not I think that you Can appreciate my observance of strategic silence No But what i'm saying is it's it is important at least to address Um, because this is one of the biggest stories in the country right now And it has a very very slight but an existing hbcu ty because he was involved With this campaign so And could have been into the future go ahead wins Now don't be coming around our neighborhood if you not if you have your stuff together We need valid advocates who had to stuff together and we're going to advocate properly on behalf of hbcu We'll have time to be playing for potentially be playing around and playing these games Yeah, I We're not in in your rights if no one is perfect a lot of people make they cuss people out People cheat people do a whole bunch of stuff that can be redeemable, but they don't publicly Stage And then I guess it exploit a situation like this Yeah, it's one thing for you to lie privately and it comes out into public. It's another thing for you to lie publicly And follow police report and call yourself the game two pot and go talk to robin roberts You know, are you most upset that he he lied to robin roberts? I don't I love robin roberts I don't like I can tell I love her. I can tell so she's one of my professional heroes. I don't like that But it's it's more to the point of I think somebody put it best on it, you know the forthcoming episode of the petty ass podcast. We were rooting for you We were rooting for you. I mean tyra said that but No, yeah, you're right. Tyra did say we'll give her the credit But we were talking about jesse on that episode and wait, when was this? It's gonna drop. Don't worry about it. It's gonna drop Because it's on my show Talk about old budget stuff. Um Wow, but you'll hear we were rooting for you and and people were rooting for you And and and I was personally rooting for him because he's somebody that got involved With a campaign to save his school Who consciously he and his brother got involved and say fundraise for a black college not like chris paul Not like a lot of other folks who says yeah hbc was a cool he was part of a campaign to to Keep a school's doors open. That's a big deal to me and it's a big deal to a lot of people And he probably played a role and that actually happening if it happens So to see him go down in flames like this At least in the short term For lion I don't I don't think it's a good. It's certainly not a good look for him And I don't think it's a good look for what could have been for hbc culture And to the fact that you're mad and trying to put his line off on jamal bryant. I'm just confused He's not a celebrity Because I don't consider him a celebrity I think that trivializes the fact that he's a preacher Do you think crevlo dollars a celebrity? Yes, I do. Do you think titty jakes is a celebrity? This sound like another podcast. This one like a whole other podcast I'm just i'm about to run down these preachers who she does think are celebrities But and and and then to find out how jamal falls out of that who by the way is an hbc alum I know I know his whole story. Right. So i'm trying to so so titty jakes. You also agree as a celebrity There there is a There is having a national platform and following And then there's being a celebrity that also has a national platform And following I don't consider jamal bryant a celebrity Even though he's had cameos and movies and tv shows and such I don't consider him a celebrity and you can't make me think that he's a celebrity I don't I don't want to preach your first. Oh, so now we get into the word. Okay. Oh my oh my But I'm just saying I consider him a preacher before I consider him a celebrity Who do you consider to be a celebrity before preacher? Let me think We don't have time for you to think Just as long as you go into service in kentucky. That's all I care about Okay, and we're gonna take out we're gonna take our second break to figure out If we can find tiffany a church home in frankfurt Um, but when we're gonna when we come back, we're gonna talk about uh, ralph northern Uh, launching his apology tour at hbc. That just had to dark. We'll be right back That just had to dark welcome back. Uh, we just wrapped up a conversation about, uh, Bennett college and then uh the fall of of jessica small ed as a potential hbcu advocate And we want to segue into Um, you really mad. I'm gonna see you this open jiff real quick. Um, don't send me no So we want to transition to conversation about uh, what is it the 18th? So in a couple of days I believe virginia union university is going to host in battle governor, uh, virginia governor ralph northern um for I guess a listening and feedback session With the union campus community obviously tied to his New trouble of discovering pictures of somebody in blackface and clansman hoods on his yearbook, um, you know Contemplating moonwalking during a press conference Calling slaves and dentured servants in front of gaol king Um What do you guys think about him coming to union or just just the notion of an hbcu being part of him trying to make it come back You already know how I feel. I don't know how you feel. I know how you feel about your mom brian yikes Wow You already know how I feel because what is it that how our students do? Well, one of the things that Howard students do the best They call the ruckus and they protest. Okay. I would like to see Something like that at union Only because This is lip service. Okay Yeah Like who is surprised When I think about older white people I'm not going to be surprised if a blackface photo surfaces Is their grandfather or maybe their parents Are or are pictured in clans clansman attire Have said something racist have done something racist have done something violent in races I'm not going to be surprised. So to go on the whole talking to her for what You're wasting taxpayer money Is he though? Yes, he is Because it's lip service. So if you want it. So if he just said, okay, I'm sorry for all this confusion I'm not talking about this again. You'd be satisfied with that. No, no, no Whether he says it or not It doesn't matter because it's lip service either way You already did it. You can't take it back. You can't go back in time Nothing that you say is going to matter because people May think how I think it'd be like, yo, this is lip service. You're white You've done things like this in the past. You may have policies that serve Your your brand of racist ideology. So, I mean, what else is there? Are you going to resign? You said you're not resigning you fighting this. Oh, all right. I guess we'll see you That's the next election. I mean And go from there. So going on a whole tour to talk about race, I guess or Apologizing or wanting the black people to be on your team again or some semblance of being on your team is pointless Interesting. So you I tell you that you would not attend such an event if you were a student on the campus Look, you would download the best of jesse smollett and listen to it in your room Oh my I would be there, but I would be with uh A sign students causing a rush Shout out to hues Right Yes Yeah Also, you align with hues on this. No, no, Winston. What do you so? What do you think Winston about? About northern trying to use hbc use As the I think the jump off point for welcome. Please take me back pandering He's trying to pander to an audience I rather you open your checkbook up then you try to come up here and have a talk with You know people who kind of especially in the south man or well already well aware of What your position your true position is and I'm sure to this point your policies and other things, you know readily align with Sad perspective. I must rather you open up a checkbook then try to come do a Speaking engagement tour. I don't really know the value or benefit for HBCUs in general for him to do Said to her other than maybe you bring a little bit of news group and publicity Of small amount towards the the school. I don't really see how it benefits HBCUs to have him Doing that and that is what scares the mess out of me about the situation now so far It hasn't happened yet, but I'm old enough to remember and I'm saying this sarcastically When it was what 2017 and we found out what late summer that betsey devos was coming to bethune cookman And all of a sudden you had the alumni association. You had the local NAACP. Everybody is denouncing bethune cookman for allowing this lady on campus now what people didn't realize is that Typically when a when a federal official particularly a secretary is coming to the school It's not necessarily that you wrote and begged them to come that could be possible, but they get a lot of requests If they're coming to your school is because somebody from the white house picked up the phone and said Hello, hbc president Betsy devos is going to be your commencement speaker this fall period the end What day is it and what's the nearest airport and do y'all have car service? That's it That is it. I tell the story all the time um morgan had a commencement speaker during the 50th anniversary of brown versus board of education Really good brother used to be my boss the ceo of of bge bonamore gas and electric calvin butler morgan gets that call eric holder is going to be your commencement speaker and You know the the president morgan said well, we already got a speaker and I think the next word is where I don't think you heard me Eric holder is going to be your commencement speaker So the the the the issue that this causes is you're now trying to use the commencement speech as a relationship builder with a local businessman and the white house has just told you get information so What are you going to do more? What did morgan do? We had two commencement speakers One of the longest driest commencement in morgan history But we had two commences now not not because of them because their speeches were good, but it was two of them. That's long Yeah, I'm thinking this is one of those situations where the governor picked up the phone and said or somebody his proxy called and said The governor will be at vigenian union next thursday And and it's interesting because union is private. So it's not that they had to pick up the phone It's not that they had to say yes But what is your life as an institution like if you say no You know, I don't expect the institution to say no Say yes But there are consequences. I don't think I don't think you I don't think you say yes But I'm interested to hear why you think you say yes Because or at least the way that I've heard my president described I should clarify and say howard describe what our political responsibilities or Why he has to make some of the decisions that he has to make is related to how how We were chartered And the certain responsibilities that come with that so explaining to the general public or the howard public that well Betsy DeVos is an ex-officio member of our board of trustees actually Every secretary of of education is a is a member and like explaining that Yo, sometimes things are gonna happen. I have to do what I have to do. That's in the best interest of This university y'all are going to do whatever it is y'all are going to do and that's fine too I think this is what I mean by The university should say yes Because whether the university says yes or no Students are always going to have their own prerogative and their own feelings whether it meshes with what the university is doing Or it doesn't that but that's but that's okay But I think that there are certain times where you have to say no And it almost may mean you have to say if you're going to fire me then do what you will Because it and I think I do agree with that I think race is one of those is one of those times that anything where it's there's a there's a prospect of racism race Or racialized topics you gotta you gotta say then if you're gonna fire me then fire me Um, because it can't be one of those things if donald trump is taught us nothing else You don't walk away from your base And the last thing the last thing that you want is to be right in the eyes of the governor to be right in the eyes Of legislature to be right in the eyes of corporate people and get on your campus and your students and faculty hate you Because guess who guess who you live with You live with us. It's just it's just like the sentiment happy wife happy life You can make everybody in the world happy if your wife ain't happy Your life will be miserable Because you live with her Or at least you're supposed to live with her So That that's one of those situations like and this might be in that in that bag like If they bring that man to campus No matter how contrite he wants to be no matter how apologetic he is I don't know about unions protest culture Me either. I know occasionally you see it bubble up and they say we're not having it. We're mad. Um But I don't I don't know if it'll it'll be able to cook in a situation. I don't know if it'll be a Howard situation But if I just want to see a little a little something if they're dna If their dna is anything like most hbc's you are going to see a little something and the thing about it is every camera Enrichment is going to be there And that's good too. And the problem is I'll thank you sometimes it's not even just the students Sometimes it's activists that come on the campus It's uh, you know, if you ask Walter kimbrough about that at dillard when they had david duke in a debate He will tell you that wasn't dillard students doing it It was students from other schools that were climbing fences and getting maced and all this other kind of stuff So That's the that's the prospect yet you bring and so you're wondering as the president or as a board of trustees really Is is this what you want? Is this what you really want to do because if you make people On-campus mad at you You can't dictate how long they stay mad at you You can't dictate what they will do to exact revenge on you That's now there are there are two ways this could go Nobody says nothing nor them doesn't say anything stupid He's back on the path of redemption Everybody forgets that this happened He could protest um or the union students could protest and other people could protest it turns into a fiasco um I or you got a third option, I think Where it could be like talladega when they were getting ready to go playing the inaugural parade And It could be a situation where people are mad and then it dies down So i'm not really sure Where union falls on that spectrum I don't anticipate it'll be able to cook in a situation where it's just it's gonna get rowdy. I don't think it's that Or a tech or a texas southern situation, you know where people are just We getting ready to perform It might it might be somewhere in the middle I hope they get i hope they get charles oakley and ben wallace and every Charles oakley gonna be sitting there staring at him But it's it's interesting now here's the other thing is the politics of it No, don't forget nor them as a democrat All right, so they in a really tough place. This isn't devos whereas a conservative coming to campus Well, john corny coming to texas southern whereas a republican senator coming to campus. This is a this is a democrat Who black folks don't really hope I really hope he didn't say he contemplated getting shoe polish to look like michael jackson of all celebrities though If you could maybe use shoe polish to the to mimic Pete from michael jackson bro was your that was what you came with he was going to the jackson five. Look, that's what it was Man jackson five michael jackson wasn't even that shoe polish dark I don't I mean there that's the political bend to this because these are democrats So you're wondering if okay. Well The richman democrats are going to kind of co-sign this because if you notice you haven't really seen a lot of backlash about this Or at least I haven't y'all tell me what hbc twitter is saying because it's like are we really surprised? In and it's virginia. Are we really right? Yeah, no And it almost you can almost say it doesn't even matter what party affiliation when you when it comes to the delicate nature of south Yeah, the south politics, you know It is it is what it is, you know racism with a smile I mean the students the students boo people if they don't politically agree with them. I mean that still happens Yes, that is. Yeah. Yeah, and it's still embarrassing. I mean like we just say at texas. They do it florida. They do it. Um I'm trying to think of uh, louisiana I mean there are places that students will act a fool if they don't they don't agree with your political your political views Right. Um, I don't think richman is immune from that and I don't think that they're above it either. It's not That ain't hampton You know, I mean and I think at this point hampton students may act a fool if it was to come to that campus Yeah, and when I say act a fool, I don't mean they're not in there, right? The students should protest it They don't like a speaker. They should protest. They should they should go off Can somebody remind me that they protest the george hw bush? That I don't know. Um I think they spoke out against it. I don't think they They just said to me they showed up against that fool though when it was them nuts and bolts and the macaroni and cheese They said something about that So this is gonna This is gonna be interesting when Ralph northern comes because I don't know how many hbc's he's scheduled to appear at The only one I've seen so far is union um, I do think it's a bold move on his part to go into A black part of richman And say I want to talk to y'all directly You know, so I commend him for you know doing that. Um But it'll be interesting it'll be interesting to see how these students how these students work with it Because there's a lot of kids from the dnv there. I don't know how they'll they'll Side with that. I don't know how the detroiters will do. It's only 80. Y'all probably there Winston was the count of people at virgin union No, that's probably I mean, we tried to get a few we went we toured there in 2014 We tried to get something in there. We didn't get any but I'll say probably maybe like eight or nine from Ben Wallace Swag alone probably Ben Wallace brought some people down there from Detroit. That's cool Um, all right, let's take one more quick break and when we come back we're going to talk about the growing number of instances and Struggles that students are having with residence halls and and building issues on campus. This is Dodgers after dark. We'll be right back Dodgers after dark welcome back This is the final segment. We just wrapped up conversation about benning college and his chances for a read In statement to the southern associates of the colleges and schools and we talked about Ralph northern coming to virginia union as part of his political reclamation efforts and Learned that tiffani would rather drag jamal brine than jesse smollett. So Then we wind up tonight's conversation with the rash of stories coming out about students being impacted by residence hall issues. So There are a number of campuses across the country And it's not necessarily just all Delapidated dorms or dorms of falling apart. Some of them are housing issues with space Some of them are issues with you know heating some of the issues were mold I don't want to get into calling the number of the schools. It's it's been quite a few It is interesting because you would imagine that a lot of these issues are tied to Buildings first and foremost there that are just super old on campus Particularly at your private institutions where they don't have a lot of capital budget To renovate and build new dorms on a regular basis And anytime where you have You know hundreds of students in a dorm messing it up trashing it up year after year after year There's only so much cleaning. There's only so much chlorox. There's only so much you know Stuff that you can there's only so much you can do To keep it presentable year after year after year just regular wear of a facility But it's starting to come to a head and it has been for a few years But this is the first year that I can remember at least in the last decade Where you had Students not only going off, but they're all going off at the same time All over the country and they're talking about there's not because we have social media like that now But we've had social media since the early 2000s. It plays a role It plays a role It does but we've had social media since the early 2000s and this is the Now we're almost 20 years in of Excuse me social media being a being a part of our lives our daily lives and you see Dozens of campuses talking about the housing So okay, yeah Social media has been a thing since the early 2000s But we have what three generations in play Right now in terms of in and around college This latest generation Is a little different Meaning what more I have to complain different I mean, but that's okay. I again, I don't have a problem with students complaining I'm all for it. I think what students should be is more Um aware and nuanced about what they're complaining about Because oftentimes what you're complaining about Is a direct result of the school not charging you as much as they could or should to make it better for you That's true as well. Now you you could You could have a better meal plan If you don't like the food do you got that money? Do you have it because right now you're you're roughly eating Let's say roughly between seven and eleven dollars per plate Breakfast lunch and dinner Some some combination of costs like that if you want to bump that up to 15 20 25 dollars a plate Then you You could be living good You could have steak and lobster But do you want to pay for steak and lobster every night? The answer is no Um, nobody wants that flattening package. No I mean and the issue is you you want to be able to go to basketball games And a lot of students say well, why do we got to pay these fees? I don't even go to all the basketball games Because the truth of the matter is like if you didn't do it that way One you wouldn't have a team two you wouldn't have a gym Three you wouldn't have a marching band And four you would have to pay cash money every time you walked in and wanted to go to a game Uh-huh Do you want it that way? Do you want an hbc that doesn't have a marching band? Let me tell y'all what happened to me last week All right So I had a tour High school kids that came in they asked for the world. I did my best They went on the tour Wait, Winston, did I tell you tell you just privately? Uh, I don't know if you told me the whole story. You told me some of it. Okay They go on the tour. These are juniors and a few sophomores They went to go see a dorm They also went to the cab first of all they asked for free lunch And of course, I don't believe in free lunch Only because oh really Where's our lunch account? Let me clarify. I believe in free digest lunch. You're damn right. I do. Okay Let me tell you why I don't believe in free lunch on my campus Because eventually that's going to come back on the students who already paid their fee Or it's going to come out of my budget and I ain't with that at all So No, ain't no free lunch. It's a dollars per person. Thank you very much Now on the dorm situation The the tour organizer came back to me and she was like Yeah, we didn't really like the dorms The the girls don't like the idea of sharing a bathroom with 40 plus other people and it's just it's not that's not it And this is a woman who has A master's degree. So in my head, I'm like, it's completely normal For someone at some point in their collegiate experience to share A bathroom with at least either two other people right three other people or the floor floor of people Right, right. So in my head, I'm like, how are you having a problem with this? And how are you not explained to them that this is actually normal unless she went To get all her degrees from an online program. It didn't have a true collegiate social experience Because that's the only thing that I could think of because you're faulting us essentially for Having a communal living lifestyle for these students And it's normal. She told them that college is going to be like grown-ish Probably And I was like, you know what? Nah, you tried it And she put it in the email because if she had said this in person I would have taught But you know what you have to walk a fine line with that issue because I agree with you that that's part of the college life but I wonder if we are A little too hard because it was I guess hard on us and so we we expect that it should be hard on every generation that follows Now that is with the context of it's not easy as we're talking about now for a college to just renovate or knock down And put back up a dorm That can accommodate students in that way Um, but I think I do think that you have to you have to be conscious I'm not saying you change your mind or change your delivery, but I do think you had to be conscious of saying well, I had it hard and you should too I think I think the delivery where it was I think I think the delivery though is valid and saying that it can be considered because to your point that you were just saying earlier about You know making sure that the young people understand the full scope of what's going on I think for a lot of them they have been brought up in a generation in the time where Whatever wherever they want they've been able to get you know If it's been just from If you have electronics and other things that they're access and having just in general more access than we had You know and that's growing up that they do believe that they're Old certain things and they should get certain things out of situation and it's them being able to Hey, I need you to fully understand what that means when you get what you're asking for I need you to do that and also think it's good for them to be informed in general and bring forth You know some ideas or questions about why there's curfew. Why you know the dorms are in whatever condition they are I think that there's validity for them learning how to advocate and speak up for themselves But also understanding like you said the full scope of what that means when you're when you make those requests And when you make those demands or what have you that you understand how you know how that falls back on you as well So In my first year at Howard, I had a private bathroom and I enjoyed it because I was scared of A communal bathroom shout out to rosy that really what'd you say shout out to rosy the bully in the administration Anyways, I was scared of a floor bathroom Absolutely terrified, but by the time I got to my final senior year I was like forget it. I got my lifestyle wipes. I got my disposable wipes. I got my own tissue. I'm good and then After that first semester when I got tired of actually buying my own tissue. I was just like I'm gonna just use this one plot and I'm gonna be alright. I'm gonna make do But that that's part of becoming adult. I mean, but at the same time I think I've always had this theory about residence life on hbc campuses and it's this I came out of school in 03 In the four years I was at morgan I was nine. I knew it right um In the four years I was at morgan. I knew people who If we were to go to the calf or the refactor as we call it in morgan um They would they would look at the food and some of us are like, oh man, this food is terrible And these brothers would be like, I don't know what you talking about. This food is excellent This food is excellent. And then and you're wondering like man, you country bumping like what is What are you are you smoking? I think people be gassing it when they say calf food is bad. No, here's what here's what Here's what the deal is There were some people even in the early 2000s That were still coming from houses and communities Where they may not have eaten more than once a day That's right And they may not have and when they ate it ate at high school or whatever it was free lunch So they're now in a situation where I what do you mean? I can get as much as I want of different kinds of stuff That's number one. No doubt when you're talking about when you're talking about um a dorm living experience Do you got brothers that I knew of that were walking through streets like I hope I don't get jumped today I hope I hope don't don't nobody get killed on my block today And what do you mean? I'm living in a dorm with four people. Cool. Ain't no gunshots outside. All right It's fine. It's nothing To quote my my my guys from california. It's nothing I mean, so That I think was part of the hbc residential experience for generations And you're just now getting to a part a point where you have students from Black middle-class homes or lower middle-class homes Where the hbc on campus residential experience is a step down from where they're coming Yeah, and I think that that that is starting to that is starting to yield a lot of this anxiety We're out of the generation where a lot of people were Staying on campus was a step up from where you came from In terms of space in terms of quality of food in terms of safety in terms of uh, you know, just the vibe of where you live Right now you're getting you're getting to the point like I have I have central heating I have you know I didn't I didn't I don't I don't eat carry out Like my mom like my mom cooks or I cook. You know what I mean? Like now it's a step down And and when you add that to The notion that some of these buildings which were already 10 or 20 years old too old For people to be in any way are now past the 20 year mark where it was too old And now that 30 and 40 years too old And now that mold and that bad plumbing and that poor ventilation and all that is starting to take a toll So you got you got students who are stepping down in quality of life Facilities that are past the point of no return in terms of being serviceable As a place to house and dumb us out students And it's all coming to a head And so the question I think that the presidents and the boards and the alumni really who are giving back to support this Have to ask themselves is this Do our giving strategies need to change? Um because it's not so much that you're building a new dorm as we've seen with benet and other places You can build a new dorm and you can go into debt But what is our strategy in terms of of capital outlay? What are we doing about these facilities? Because the answer may not be Knock an old one down and put a new one up. That's going to be obsolete in five to ten years. It may be renovate. It may be We don't um We don't have students on campus anymore. Maybe we just outright buy a hotel Or just permanently contract with a hotel Maybe it's something different because you can't have you cannot have Again to go back to the point about the base. You can't have students on campus dis disaffected by Coming down in their quality of life in a facility. You know is past its prime Because that in a in a lot of ways is how you torpedo your retention In a lot of ways is how you torpedo your your students love for the school and how that translates when they get out I don't know now you got some kids that that really embrace it like tiffany I always expected, you know in the conversation we've had That you enjoyed how it's so much That it didn't it didn't bother you No, because look, I didn't want to go home and when I was home for that one semester I don't but you it was the freedom of being on campus and in dc When I was in school. It was like, okay, we had I had a mouse every year my collegiate experience in my room I had a mouse every year I've been in the all campus apartment and three mice ran out when the when the girls was over Yep, listen to me And at no point did I did I say? Morgan Morgan is awful. They are mistreating us because I think in a certain way you knew this is all we have But I don't think it's that foreign for some students to say that it's reasonable It's reasonable, especially when they have friends And they had options to go other places that may have had better housing conditions. Yeah It's not unreasonable that is so I think institutionally we got to look at this a different way Like you can't just keep cramming these students into these dorms You can't keep overbooking the housing having them standing lines to waiting up to get access to a room Excuse me That's below their expectations. And then you say we'll just deal with it. That's the hbc way Like stop crying like we can't we can't do our young people that way because it's like, okay I'm gonna get out of here and I'm never looking back Because you told me when I had a problem with it a legitimate problem with it to stop crying about it right so I don't know Winston. You're the one, you know, you send kids all around and Tiffany You're bringing them into a campus Winston. You send them out to campuses all over the country When you get the kind of feedback about rooms and stuff like that How do you explain it? What is the context that you use in the last minute? We have a show What is the context that you use to give people bigger insight about it's bigger than your room if you do that at all You know, you know, mr. Coffee is always that I'm always big on like like you said I tell the stories about my you know friends and family who you know went through the struggles and dealt with things and talk about You know some of the character building pieces of that element, but I am also You know completely in line with you know, if there's things you really don't Like or really have then you have to advocate for yourself This is also part of your college experience is learning how to advocate if it's not up to what you You know think it should be and there's a reasonable expectation And we talk about you know the things that you're requesting or whatever you're looking to have improved is reasonable expectation Then it's your it's your job to go up and advocate for yourself And for us, you know the program that I work for in midnight golf like our kids We are they're always taught about being you know an advocate from day one about those things and you supposed to You should have met the president. You should have talked to your dorm director You should know who your RA is you should you know be all know all the people you need to know In order to go up the channels that you should in order to have a conversation about something You're displeased with and and that should also be realistic about the issue you have We know it can be some broad scope of we need to have you know, it's not fair that we don't have you know Chef in every floor or whatever But if it's something that's reasonable that you think needs to be improved Looked at or considered then you need to go about the proper channels in order to do so Um, you know and instill that you know, even if it does become a thing Where it's not remedy to you know level that you like if you're able to go to school and get sometimes You know for some of the kids that some of the hbc's that they go to from our program They may not have had a chance to go anywhere else, you know to your point talking about the cast you Met at Morgan they may and they may come from situations where you're like, I'm I'm not going home anyway I'm not come home for Christmas or things given or any of the other stuff So whatever you got is what I'm cool with it whatever the situation is I'm going to navigate and work it because I don't have a whole lot of other options in general to consider at this point and then for those who do have those things and like I said the You know the character building piece and the learning how to advocate and um and fight through those are also valid and relevant um pieces to me as well as a mentor as for me um, I actually have not Have the opportunity to see any of the dorms here So I actually have not uh talked about that with any prospective students that uh, you didn't go on that tour with them Oh And this is why you're about to get thrown off the show exposed. You're supposed to be on the tour You're supposed to be on a tour weren't on the tour Look first of all I can't leave my office I can't leave my office like that. I'm sorry. You know my title. I can't leave my office like that. Goodbye Um, so we're gonna we're gonna conclude this show. Um before she devolves just too much information about her role I'm not We want to thank everybody for listening to digest after dark uh here on hbc digest.com as well as on the serious Uh radio network proud of the pride of howard university's broadcast element series 142 hbcu Um, hopefully we will do this again soon, but midnight winston. Thank you so much brothers as usual tiff You're not thrown off the show this week. We will see about next week. Um, you know what? Until then again, thank you for listening. Peace