 I'm Rusty Kamori, and this is Beyond the Lines on Think Tech, Hawaii. I was the head coach of the Punahou School Boys Varsity Tennis Team for 22 years, and we were fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championships. This show is based on my books Beyond the Lines and Beyond the Game, and it's about inspiration, welcoming adversity, and building a superior culture of excellence. My special guest today is the new athletic director at our University of Hawaii. He is Craig Angulus, and today we are going beyond sports. Hey Craig, welcome to Beyond the Lines. Thank you, Rusty. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Craig, I've had a few opportunities now to really talk and meet with you and get to know you, and you're a man of great character, and I really want people to get to know you today, but can I ask you about you, first of all, playing baseball at BYU Utah? What did you like about playing baseball there? Yeah, BYU was a great experience for me. I played there right out of high school. You see the picture up there on the screen there, my freshman year. But BYU had a really good baseball program and rich history, so I went there and playing baseball at BYU. The air is thin up there, the elevation is high, the ball flies out. It's an exciting brand of baseball, but I really enjoyed it. It was a great experience. So what positions did you play? Well, when I first got there out of high school, I was a middle infielder. I played shortstop and second base, but I played third base a little bit. My senior year when we came over to play Hawaii, I was playing first base because the first baseman had previously left the team right before the season started. So I started at first base my senior year. So the fact that I could hit the ball pretty well kept me in the lineup. That was always my strength growing up. I built a batting cage in my backyard and my mom would put the balls through the shoot. And so I was really good at hitting the ball, but probably wasn't as great a fielder as others were. So but that's why I ended up at BYU and why I enjoy baseball so much. Well, so you graduated from BYU. I graduated from Creighton University and you ended up going to Creighton University Law School. And I mean, I love that we have the Creighton connection there. And Craig, I want to ask you, what do you see as the advantages being an athletic director and having a background in law? Yeah, that's a good point. You know, a lot of people, you don't need a law degree to be an athletic director, of course. A lot of people come out from different backgrounds. But the thing I've always thought was an advantage for me is having that legal background and being able to spot, you know, spot issues. I don't know the answers to every illegal question out there. That's why I rely on the general counsel's office at every university to really help guide us through those kind of things. But I do understand the law and I understand issues. And I think that's what helps me a lot as being an athletic director because you're there to keep the, you know, the athletic program on the right track and to know what all the NCAA rules are, to know what the legal issues are, to know what, you know, potential negligence issues or things of that issue, those type of things, those issues, then that's helpful. So I think it just kind of gives you a broader view of the big picture of college athletics. And so it's been a real advantage to me. And not that you necessarily need to have that. I've always said the best degree would be the joint JD MBA, which is a four-year degree every school has that to me. That's the Mac Daddy. That's the one I tell everybody, you know, if you really want to position yourself well for athletics, not just college athletics, pro athletics and other things, the JD MBAs, you know, is the one. But I'm really glad I did get the JD. It really helped me in a lot of ways in my life, helped me move up throughout my career. And, you know, I've been able to draw upon it, you know, in this position at every stop too. So I completely agree. It's a huge advantage to have, you know, to know legal issues, like you said. And Craig, I want to ask you about your family. You have six kids, your wife, Kristen, I had the pleasure of meeting and talking with her. She has such an amazing personality. Can you tell me what's the biggest thing you admire about your wife, Kristen? Well, I think it's by far the fact that she's the most caring individual I've ever met. I mean, you know, she's been the leader of the family. She's been the one with the six kids directing them along the way, and especially as we've moved from one job to the next across the country and back. She's always that constant presence with them, guiding them and also, but also being so giving. She'll give up everything that she has just for other people, for her children, for everybody. And I always have to joke with her like, you got to start thinking about yourself because you're always thinking about other people. Think about yourself once in a while, but she never does. So I think that's quite a gift that she that she's been blessed with. That's that's fantastic for all of us and everybody that knows her. Yeah, I mean, I get that energy from her. She is such an outstanding personality. And and Craig, I want to ask you, when did you first realize that you had a passion to be a leader in college athletics? Well, when I got into college athletics, you know, I didn't know a lot about how things work. I just was interested in playing baseball. But I will say that throughout my career, I learned more about the administrator structure of things. The athletic director BYU is a guy named Glenn Tuckett, who was also the former baseball coach. So I used to spend a lot of time with him because I really respected him quite a bit. And he, you know, he showed me or, you know, just was an example, I guess, more than anything of what it was like to be able to stay in college athletics in a different role. And then, of course, when I went to law school and I got out of law school, I was I was working in a law firm in Los Angeles. And I really felt, you know, the need to combine my legal interests with my athletics interests, because I just didn't see myself in life without being involved in athletics to some degree. But I enjoyed my legal aspect, too. I thought, how can I combine the two? And so I reached out to Glenn Tuckett and others and said, hey, you know, you got any advice for me as relates to going forward. With this, and one individual suggested I contact the NCAA, the National Colleges Athletic Association National Office. At that time, it was in Kansas City, because they said there was a lot of they hired a lot of people with legal backgrounds. And I thought, great, I didn't even know about that organization, really. But I reached out, found out there was a job in there. I applied for the job, cold. I didn't know anybody. I went out there, got offered the position. And it was a position where I interpreted all the rules and regulations of the of the of the of the membership. So there's probably 10 to 15 of us that were like these rules experts as it relates to NCAA rules to counsel everyone in the membership as to what the rules were. And so that's that's where I really, you know, cemented my future in college athletics to make that move. And once I made that move, then I was ingrained in college athletics. I had the tag of the NCAA in front of my jersey, which allowed me, you know, some credibility out there in the membership. And then I've been able to move around since. So that was that was really the catalyst to getting me into college athletics. Well, I love hearing those those background stories, you know, about how it all kind of evolved. And Craig, I want to ask you, I mean, you've had multiple meetings with President David Lassner. You've had multiple meetings with our former athletic director, David Matlin. What kind of culture do you want to build at the University of Hawaii? Well, yeah, they've been great. I mean, David Lassner is just a wonderful human being. And I'm so glad that he was he chose me to be the athletic director. I can't say enough good things about him. And of course, David Matlin has been great in the transition. Those things don't always happen because a lot of times, you know, the outgoing athletic director doesn't want to be involved with with the past his past institution, the incoming director sometimes doesn't want to be involved with the outgoing person. But this has been a great relationship where we've been able to bond together and he's helped me with the transition. And, you know, as he said, the cover is not bare. I mean, it is it is in really good shape. Financially, he's in good shape. Great coaches, student athletes, our teams are doing fairly, you know, very well, some some better than others. And so it's really in a good spot. And so, you know, when you come in, it's not like, you know, I have all the answers and we're going to do this and this. I don't see I don't see that. I see continuing on and making it better. And I know David would even agree that we, you know, we'll just continue to take steps to be better and better. So, so, you know, I want to make sure that we kind of, you know, first of all, we're people and I'm about people. I want to treat people very well. Our staff, our student athletes, our coaches. So I want to make sure there's this culture of kindness, you know, that we are going to treat people really well. We're not going to bully people around. We're not going to walk on eggshells when we come to work. But we're going to enjoy what we do. This is this is a great opportunity to be here. Represent the state's institution, but I also want to be results oriented. You know, this we're in the we're in the business of competition. Coaches know it. I mean, they have a lot on their plate as far as obeying all the NCAA rules and making sure their students are these graduate and flourish, balancing their budgets. But they also know that the name of the game is competition and they do have to win in their particular sport. So they bite that off when they accept the coaching position and they know. And, you know, the staff has to be there to support the student athlete culture. So I want to be results oriented for all of us, including student athletes. I really think it, you know, this culture of student athlete success, everything needs to to evolve around student athlete success. The way we fund it, the facilities we have, our academic advising, you know, the budgetary process, everything goes to student athlete success. We can't have success other in other ways without having student athlete success. So so I think, you know, that culture is everything centers around student athlete success. And and so therefore we're going to be kind to everybody. We're going to treat them right the right way. We're going to be results oriented. We're going to be relentless in our pursuits. We're not going to be stagnant and just show up to work every day. We're going to have goals and purposes that all, you know, help with this enterprise moving forward and being successful. And I think we can do that. I think they're well on their way. But I think, you know, you can never be totally complacent where you're at. We still continue to have to move forward. There's things we can do to move it forward. But we're going to be we're going to be results oriented. We're going to make sure these student athletes graduate. We're going to make sure these student athletes have are able to transition into the regular life in a graduate school or that first job. You know, everything's going to be result or goal or oriented with student athletes success. But, you know, we've got to have certain elements to it, you know, kindness. We need to be relentless, treat people well, goal oriented, come up with strategies. So there's, you know, I really think it's in a good position where we can kind of look at it and say, where how where do we want to go and then design a plan to get there and move forward? So I think we're in a good position, but I do think there's there's room to grow and improve. I love hearing that, Craig. And Craig, when we're growing up, you and I have been part of teams and sports or business and we look and we watch to see what the leader or coach or coach does that is good, what they do that might be bad. And so we learn what to do and what not to do when we become a leader. You're right. What are some things you feel the greatest leaders do? Well, I think they they have the support of their team. You know, you can always say you can win the battle, but lose the war. If you lose the if you lose control of your team, then that's where it all starts falling apart. I refer to the Hunger Games sometimes and Woody Harrelson's talking to the to the actress and saying, if you want to win, you better make them love you. And I know that sounds a little trite in leadership or whatever, but I do think there's elements that make total sense. If you want to win, you want to be successful, you got to make them, you know, respect you, love you, moving the same direction, whatever you want to move, whatever you want to tag to that. But you've got to have the support of your team and saying, come on, we're moving forward. So that that entails, you know, being able to get their input. I like that a culture of of collaboration, where everyone feels like they're part of the team, that they feel they can speak up, that they can contribute. You know, hopefully it's it's unanimous as we go forward, is it united? But if you know, if it's not always, and that certainly happens, you know, then then whoever's in a position of responsibility, probably me at that point would make a decision and we would go forward and everyone would get on board. So, you know, I really think there's that alignment that really needs to take place if a leader can align everybody into a common goal or purpose, that's how things get done. Let's say, all right, let's go. You know, it's different than like I kind of like it into like, I don't know, the biblical shepherds and sheep herders, you know, the sheep herders are behind just kind of pushing them around, pushing them from behind the sheep kind of go their own direction and they're kind of keeping them together. And then, you know, I think the sheep herders more of that like, hey, come on, let's go, you know, and they and they lead them to the goal or to the end goal. So, I do think that alignment is very important and if leaders can put everybody in the right positions. We talked about the energy bus book that talks about putting people on the right seats on the bus, you know, and moving forward. I think that's that's important. So, yeah, I think you're exactly right though. You can learn a lot and we all have from what leaders have done really well. Like I'm never or I'm definitely going to do that or things that they haven't done very well, like I'm never going to do that. And I've been that way, too. I've been a number two guy, probably to eight different athletic directors throughout my career. Some of them were interim, some selected me, some didn't select me, you know, but I've been a number two to eight ADs at six different schools. And then I've been a number one for about almost 10 years and now I'm getting the opportunity to do it again. So I've learned from all of these other experiences of what I think are successful and what things I definitely want to stay away. So I definitely have an idea after 30 years in college athletics of which direction I think things are going to go and where success is going to come from. But if I had to narrow it down, it's to the one element that leaders need to be able to do and that is built to align everybody together. And you can certainly see that here, you know, you've got to have, you know, you've got to have your staff aligned with you, your coaches aligned with you, your student athletes aligned with you, your donors aligned with you, your alumni aligned with you, your legislature aligned with you, the governor aligned, you know, the president of the university. If we can all align ourselves in the common goal for the state's institution, the state's, you know, division one institution here at the University of Hawaii, I think we can do some great things. And I think there's a lot of alignment already going on, but I want to make sure we keep that and even align ourselves even closer and make sure we're all, you know, it's not about us, not about me. It's about us representing the University of Hawaii and the state of Hawaii going the same direction. So I think we're well on our way there, but that's what I would suggest is a leader that I'd like to make sure that we continue to do and get better at doing that. Craig, I completely agree with you. And I want to put everybody in your shoes to really, you know, see themselves as a leader now, because you've been, like you said, you've been, you have a lot of experience being in athletics. Now, what are some of the biggest challenges you face as an athletic director? And what you might see is maybe some different challenges being in Hawaii as an athletic director. Well, I think the challenges here or any place in college athletics, you know, comes down to how to have, how to create the best student-athlete experience. And that takes resources. And so resources are probably the number one thing facing college athletics at this point. That's why you see all this realignment and whatnot. It's done for one reason. It's done for increased resources. And that's why, you know, we're all doing that. And so I think the race, the chase for resources, chase for revenue is real. We've got to be good at that. And that's probably the biggest challenge facing college athletics is everything kind of, kind of, you know, is derived from that area for student-athlete success for, you know, all sorts of things. Now, being out here 2,500 miles away from the continent, that makes it even more difficult because we've got to get recruits to come out here. We've got to get coaches to come out here. We've got to fund all that and get people out here this way. So it's definitely got its unique challenges. But I will also say, as far as the location of being in Hawaii, yeah, I've been at a lot of different places professionally. I mean, I've been from, you know, LA to Omaha to Kansas City to Indiana to Miami to Tampa to Philly to New York City. I mean, I've pretty much crisscrossed this country. And there's, you know, there's good people everywhere you go, absolutely. There's challenges everywhere you go to. And there's different cultures, different kind of things that are pervasive to that particular locale. And so certainly I think Hawaii though is probably more unique than any place on the continent. And so I think you have my own opinion and I've been told this is got to find a way to integrate into the culture here and embrace the culture and be able to win over the people to let them know that you care about them and you're here to work with them and how can we all work together this alignment issue to try to get better and do what's best for the University of Hawaii, for the athletic program, for the state itself. And so I think this is a little bit more tricky and intricate than maybe other places I've lived, maybe New York, Miami, Philly. They all have their different, you know, elements to it. And I think because I've lived in all these different areas, I'm poised to be able to integrate here and understand and make the right moves more so than not to make it successful. So I do, I'm drawing upon those experiences in Miami, Philly, New York to really help integrate myself here. But I think it's doable. I think the people have been very kind to me and I think if we all work together, they'll accept me as part of the group and we'll all work together for the common good. Well, Craig, I think you're definitely well on your way right now because, you know, I can attest you have such great positive energy and you really care about improving the teams wherever you go. I mean, that's really what you wanna do and you have a track record of really making those improvements. And Craig, I wanna ask you about my books. You have both of my books and I wanna know what are some things that stood out to you in it? Well, there's a couple of things I noted when I was reading through them this past week. You know, I do love your theme about developing superior culture of excellence. I think that's outstanding because that's what we're after and that's what we're after here in the athletic department. But there's a couple of things that struck me like in chapter four, where you're talking about the constant thirst for growth and you're talking about how, you know, one thing built upon another when you were playing baseball in high school and we moved over to soccer and eventually to tennis and of course ended up at Creighton University and how things build upon itself as you try to seek out to be better at everything. I'd liked your analogy at Creighton University where everybody doesn't need to be coached the same way. And I've often thought about that analogy with the Wizard of Oz where you think about that, a 10 man needed one thing, the scarecrow needed something else and the lion needed something else and as a good coach or a good leader, I think you're able, you've got to be able to understand what motivates people because a lot of times, you know, in coaching for example, maybe old school coaching, if you just yell and scream at them enough, they, you think that that's going to motivate them but that may motivate one person but that may cause the next person to shrink and it might cause the next person to quit, you know? So you've got to understand what motivates your people and be able to deliver that. That's what a good leader is. That's what parenting is about. I mean, I've got six children. That's what parenting is about, is understanding your people and be able to deliver what is needed to motivate them at the right time. So that one, that stood out to me. And then of course, chapter seven, I liked the section in there where it talks about everyone or making everyone better, you know, and working together. And I kind of liken it unto when I was like to say, you know, team goals first, individual goals second. So as we're making everyone better, if we all unite together, that's what's necessary. And like I said, team goals first, individual goals second. And that, you know, if your individual goal is the same as a team goal, great. But a lot of times it's not. I think of the example, when I was at the University of Miami, there was a great player called Warren Sapp who went on to play in the NFL. And then he also went on to, you know, he's in the hall of fame, I think, at the NFL level, I believe. But they brought him in to be a tight end because he wanted to be a tight end in college. They brought him in. They said, yeah, sure, you'll be a tight end. After the first day of practice, they put him down a nose tackle. He was not happy about that at all. But it turned out to be a great move. But, you know, it's like, hey, I know your individual goal is to be a tight end, but for team purposes, we're gonna put you at nose tackle. And he turned out to be an all-American and a great, you know, player and help the team, of course. So yeah, those are the two of the areas that I really, two things that really spoke to me when I was looking through your book during the week. No, I love hearing those things. And Warren Sapp, I mean, I can't even imagine him being a tight end. I mean, as a nose tackle, I mean, he was legendary. I mean, he was a force. And Craig, I know just from our interactions with each other that you strive for that superior culture of excellence. You strive for that superior discipline details. You have these high standards. What expectations do you have for the people that will be working with you? Well, I want them to be able to get behind me and to work together to make adjustments when necessary and to move forward. I always say, you know, if there's a saying on my desk at home, if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always get. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got. And I've added onto that stanza by saying if what you've gotten has been good, it should continue. If what you've gotten has not been good, we need to revamp it and improve it. So I'm kind of taking that mantra here. So my hope is the staff will, you know, will I'll be able to learn from them. They'll be able to learn from me. We'll be able to come up with goals collectively and move it forward. I hope, you know, people, sometimes they don't like change though. Sometimes it, you know, they resist that a little bit. I'm hoping that's not the case. I've been, like I said, I've been through change many, many times. This is my eighth institution plus the NCAA been involved with a lot of different athletic directors, a lot of different person. I've seen most everything there is to see in college athletics as it relates to personnel. So I'm hoping though that I can utilize those experiences and get people together, moving in the right direction and even motivate them maybe to do things they haven't done in the past maybe even be better than they've been in the past. I mean, that's my goal is we all rise together. You know, all both rise together as the tide rises, of course. And I'm hoping that's the case here. Yeah, no, I hope so too. And Craig, for me as a coach, I wanted to build teams with an identity of excellence and character. What are your thoughts? Well, absolutely. I mean, the two things I think whether it be coaching or whether it be an athletic director, you need his talent and character. I mean, talent, you know, you need great players who have the talent experience to do it. And then you have, you need great character. And really that's the blue chip athlete or the blue chip employee. Now, sometimes we don't have as much talent as we want but we're really good at character. Other people are really talented but their character is a little low. So, you know, we're always a sliding scale. That's the way people are. We've got, you know, we don't all have it all. So, talent and character are really, I think, what I'm after, I think what coaches are after to try to find those two qualities. Now, a lot of things stem and flow down through those categories. But I kind of liken them to talent and character of the two that I strive to marry. And if you can align them, you know, together then you've got a great employee, you've got a great athlete. And that's what I think we're trying to do here. Find talent and character and build upon that. Whether it be our teams or student athletes, that's who wins championships, you know, that's who does very well here. So, it's got to be both though. Can't just be one or the other. We've seen that. We've got to have both and look at there. I think we've got a lot of good people doing that already. So, we'll just have to see how we flow in the future. I totally agree there. And Craig, you know, for me as a coach, I would train the mindset of my team to really welcome adversity and look forward to challenges. What are your thoughts about the importance of mindset? Yeah, I think that's important, so important. And they've got to be open to that. They've got to be open. If they're open to getting better and open to learning new things and doing things and we're going to be really, really good. If they're close to that, like, I'm not interested, that's not for me. I'm not going to embrace this. Then that's where we've got to find a way to make some adjustments. But I'm hoping that they'll be open to that and we'll work together. I have no doubt about that. Yeah, well, all high achievers are always open to being better. That's why they become even greater. And Craig, I want to ask you one more thing before we wrap up. How do you define success? Well, like I said, I really think success is driven by results, result being result-oriented. But again, I think on a day-to-day basis, it's just getting better every day. Just giving a great effort and being better every day. As I've said before, you can't always control the outcome, but you can't control your effort. So I think success can be measured by a sustained effort every day. And hopefully that leads to results down the road. Doesn't always mean it will, but that's the goal. Activity breeds proactivity. So I just think success is defined by just being better every day through a relentless effort throughout the process and eventually we'll get to the results. But you just can't take days off. You just can't shut it down. You've got to be anxiously engaged in a good cause, moving things forward on a day-to-day basis. To me, that's success. I completely agree with you, Craig. You and I agree on a whole lot of stuff. And Craig, you are a man of great character. You are a fantastic leader. I mean, I hope all of Hawaii supports you to really help the University of Hawaii. And I really want to thank you for taking time to be on the show today. Well, thank you very much, Rusty. It's been a pleasure. And hopefully we'll have opportunities to do this more in the future. Look forward to continue working with you. Definitely. Thanks, Craig. And thank you for watching Beyond the Lines on Think Tech Hawaii. For more information, please visit rustycomory.com and my books are available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. I hope that Craig and I will inspire you to create your own superior culture of excellence and to find your greatness and help others find theirs. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please click the like and subscribe button on YouTube. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Check out our website, thinktechawaii.com. Mahalo.