 And first up, the agenda is to approve the agenda. We have an addition to the agenda. We'll just put after the FEMA updates, which is a special event permit for American Crafted Spirits Inc. So we'll put that in there after the FEMA update piece. Special event permit for American Crafted Spirits. Inc. American Crafted Spirits Inc. Which is through Babes Fire. They're doing it through Babes Fire. They're doing it through V&A. Third thing, oh. Move the agenda as amended. Second. Okay, all in favor? Aye. Aye. And public comment, inquiries, or anything that's not on the agenda for this evening that anybody would like to comment or bring out. That was your time. Everybody's here for the agenda? Doug, you know I have anything? It's not yet. No? It's working on it. We gave it two weeks. Come on. It's on the agenda. All right, so we'll move on. Move on. Our one appointment this evening is for the rec committee. So that's our 615 appointment. Is there anybody that's going to be here? Do you want to wait until 615? I'm ready whenever. I don't know if anybody else is going to be here. I'm not sure. Shane said he was going to try to come. Detry will not be here. Do you want to wait 10 minutes and see? Yeah. Because we can motor through the other two and we can swing back. All right. That'll bring us to the central Vermont Council on Aging. Do you want to discuss the motion to authorize payment of $650? So that's outlined in your packet that they had submitted their letter to the town and via email and they received a confirmation, a read receipt, which is in your packet. So they believed that their letter was received. They got a read receipt. Makes sense. They assumed it got taken care of. And the service committee and Paul can tell me if I'm wrong. Service committee and Kelly issued a letter. You know, as they do reminders to people if they haven't received their information. And I spoke to the lady, Mary, and she said, Dries, she said, I don't recall seeing the letter. It doesn't mean it didn't come. Could have gone to someone else. She said the other thing is, even if we'd gotten the letter, I'm not sure I would have done anything about it because I received this read receipt. I received a confirmation from the town of Bethel that they got it. So she said, I'm not even sure, you know, with everything the meeting would have pursued it. So she obviously, as she and her executive director wrote you a very nice letter. So they're asking that, that we would, that the slide board would still authorize, you know, give them the $650 and, you know, they're obviously not profit and use it and have Bethel residents and I, so she sent a very nice letter. If you choose to do that, we'll just, you know, figure it out. We'll take it out of the budget and somewhere else to pay them. But that's up to you. Paul knows more about the process because he shares that. Yeah, just brief you with me. We send out letters to the usual group that we receive requests from every year. It's a pretty standard group that's been on the list for quite a while. And if we don't receive the material, I can give you copies of the letter that we send out. Okay, because we have a couple here that Shelley, I don't know if that was possible. So if we don't hear from them by probably the beginning of the third week of November, then we send out a reminder letter. You know, we need to have your material by the first of December because we meet the first week of December to discuss the appropriations. So that last, this is last year we're talking about. We're not talking about what's going on now, we're talking about last year. There were three that didn't submit any information. One was capstone. They sent a letter saying they were not going to have a request that year because they were reorganizing and they weren't going to submit a request. American Red Cross and the World to the Aging Council on Aging also didn't send the material. So we sent letters to them. Kelly sent out letters, reminder letters. And we still didn't hear anything back from them in time. So we went through the process of the committee and reviewed just like we always do. And since they hadn't, we hadn't received any of the material. And when the material comes in, it's put in a binder right away. It's a binder that Kelly has at the desk that everything goes right in there. She and I look at that on a regular basis and see who's there, who's not there and whatnot. So for whatever reason, that material didn't get to the committee. The only thing that we want to make sure in the future is that they notice that they had sent it to the town clerk. And the letter, in the letter, they're asked to send it to the town office via email or snail mail or fax. So maybe somehow in that transition it got shuffled and never got to the committee. The change over between clerks, right? Well, Jean Byrne was the one who received it according to the read. I wasn't sure she was still there. I don't know that. Because they have the same email address. So I think it might have been a transitional either or someone was new or because that's a new, that she just took on that email address. Yeah. So I don't know what to tell you. I'm not sure about for whatever reason it didn't come into the committee. Yeah. So it didn't get into the appropriation so it didn't get voted on by the town. Didn't that town meet with the employer for this year? Yes. So this is not this. And that was in our current budget that we voted on at 10 or 18 days. 20 or 18, actually. 24. Yeah. Do you know just from doing this for so long, they obviously have residents, special residents, because you guys wouldn't give them money if they didn't sit. No, we probably would have put it right through as a level funded item because they do, a letter that she wrote explains the service that they do to the Bethel residents. I think it's just a procedural thing that we're talking about here. It's not so much a 650 boxes, not going to do anything. And I think too on our eyes, it's obviously something internal here and then, you know, she admitted that they probably wouldn't have thought twice about it. So definitely something on our eyes too. It's just a procedural precedent. It is. I know it's tough to do. So what I would want to do is abstain from voting or refusing myself from the voting part. If there is a decision to be made here, because I think I'm too close to the other process. And I feel like it might be a little bit of a conflict. I think though, I think it's too late because you discussed it. You could vote against it. You know, I think that I'm not sure that you can abstain now. I can abstain. Right. Maybe that's it. Or something like that. But I get what you're saying. You're right. It's procedural and you don't want to set a precedent. I understand. And that's why it's here, because I was going to check for that one. I was like, no, no. You can go to the board. So they really are asking for it within this budget here. How about the budget board? No. Right. It just wasn't approved as part of the appropriation of the time. Quite that far, but that's all. That's your difference. It's such an odd one, because there is a whole process through which they should go through and be finding out about it now, well beyond that process. It feels a little odd. Well, I think they wouldn't have paid it known because we don't normally pay appropriations until further into the year, because I don't tend to issue appropriations until we've received a couple of, you know, some tax money because we're not going to lend out what we don't have. So they don't think they really realized until later in the year, partly through the year, that they didn't take it in. And I think this is one of those situations where we have as much blame on, you know, on the office side that somebody obviously dropped the ball. You didn't know what they were reading or meant to send it to someone else. Oh yeah, so it's tough. I hate to penalize an organization that benefits the residents. Sometimes too, it seems like we get letters from some of the agencies and it's more, we question whether it's an invoice or whether it's a request for the next year. Right. So we probably need to clean up that procedure a little bit. Yeah, I agree. I guess my question would really be for you, Teresa, like, do you feel like we have 650? You know, I'm sure we can take it out of something that we'll just, we'll overspend the line and we'll underspend something else. I mean, that's really it. I'll just look for some place else that we can cut it out of. That's always the goal anyways is to understand. So theoretically, it wasn't voted on. So how can we give it to them? Well, it's any sort of invoice. You still have the authority to, you know, manage the bills and the money of the town. So is there an option to hold off on making a decision to see where our budget, like we're going to be running a deficit? Well, yeah, I mean, we wouldn't know until probably April or so. And I know we're getting a lot of break. We had a lot of breakdowns in last week or so at the town garage. But so, I mean, we could wait for that to be something that you want to apply that to you guys. I mean, I know it's well within our power to select board to grant this, but I also always like to stick to the formality of the things, which is, you know, this is a piece that is voted on by the town voters on town meeting day. So I asked going ahead and, you know, this might be the right thing to do. It could end up setting the precedence that, you know, at any time the board could just spend away on whatever it might be. I guess my recommendation would be to not grant the 650 in this current budget here. But, you know, there could be the option of having someone on town meeting day this year ask for maybe WPB to get pushing the timing budget. And it could cut it off, set that. Yeah, sure. Anyone could stand up. Anyone of you could stand up as residents and say, this is what happened. Or you could ask someone, you know, to do it. Yeah, I think it would feel better going that round. I don't want to undercut them, especially if they're benefiting our own residents, but it is a really tricky line of precedent. It is, and I feel bad, because if it was a mistake that was made, you know, that the office had a hand in, then why punish them for something else is difficult. I also get that too, but that's certainly a really easy way to take care of it is to just have someone stand up at town meeting and then they would have to wait, but they would get it in the end. Right, they would get it. It would be a year late, you know, to go through that way. Yeah, lots of them. I can go either way. I mean, if it was in there, I'm sure it would pass. I'm sure. Even though they didn't actually vote on it, I feel confident that they would have voted in favor of it if that money had been there. Again, we're talking about $650. I don't know if that's going to make them right then. So... I think they're like us. They probably run on a... Yeah. I don't know. They're not probably. I'm sure they don't have money to draw from. So you could kind of throw back the voters. Is there anybody that would like to move forward with the motion to go ahead with the $650 now or wait until the town meeting day? I think it works. So here in no motion, we'll... At this point, we won't grant a request for it other than... Okay. Instructions. Maybe either we can have a representation... Okay, I can let her have it. At the meeting, or they could be at the meeting and stand up and... Yeah. We can discuss why it may not have been put in there. Okay. This would be a way of going forward. We should. I think we should send them a letter. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'll call. I'm sure Mary will come to your top team. And I think that's the best. I may not say that. I'm sure the voters would have voted it in. But, you know, at some point, they would say that if you started doing that, the select board could just start showing money to different groups of people, you know. So, I think that's good. Any further discussion on that? Okay, they're all set now, Ellie? Yeah. Okay. Thank you for having us tonight. I want to start off by reminding the select board of the March 7, 2017 town meeting. In a minute, I want to remind the select board that court is turned to explain because the committee has made a five-year plan for improvement and that the first stage was the neutral house and then the second stage was the building of a skateboard park with that costing 81,000 and he went over the proposed plan. And the voters voted yes, 145 to 26 on that. And so I know that in the last couple of years we have been working with you because of your concerns about the cost of the skateboard park and everything and a more feasible line of more tone down a little bit, which we have been doing and getting it moved before the DRV and getting it sized at a reasonable size. And so as of the new year 2020, we have gotten two proposals from the contractor Michael Parker and the first one was a building apart for 55,000 and asking the town for help with materials, equipment, and any kind of work. And when Theresa came to our committee meeting at the first of January and then looked it over and said what we had in equipment or what we could do in kind and that a lot of this items that Mr. Parker needed we didn't have or couldn't do. So I requested Mr. Parker to give us another proposal which he did and you have that proposal I believe in your packet for 75,000 dollars. Lastly, I have been working in the fall to work on the Torant Foundation. We did the Torant Foundation came in October to the site visit and though we couldn't make their deadline of the first of November to have all the information to really apply, they said we could do their next cycle and that cycle is coming up in March. And so last week I worked on doing all the paperwork and getting work because Rebecca Stella is working with me and getting all the facts and figures for that. Also last week I met with Owen of the base bar. He's really on board with helping us. He wants to help us find ways to do the whole master plan so he's on board to even helping us not through this year but an additional thing. We have through those things that we have started planning. Also I talked personally to Mr. Parker last Friday morning and I got, so our proposal is that he has put 75,000. I got his timeline that he will start at the end of June and be finished by the middle of September. The funds that we have raised through our voters voting and the concert dinner and a little back-react and things like that, it comes to 50,288. So our balance is 17,712 to be able to do the project for 75,000. And these are the, we're going to be doing a raffle through the spring and summer to have a drawing at Ford Festival. We have a concert dance scheduled for April 24. Both there is a very popular one of our magicians and they have agreed to do it. We've already contacted them and they're on board to help us with this fundraiser on the 24th. We would like to ask to do a coin drop on July 11 and I put together what Rebecca said that we needed for our proposed budget. I put it together. She has looked at it and said it is good. So we have all the things ready, almost ready to go before our meeting in March and Rebecca says we're in good shape to do that for the Tarant Foundation. Is this how much you're asking for from the Tarant Foundation? Is this the Tarant Foundation? The difference is 17,700. So that's how you're asking for the Tarant Foundation? Well, we're not sure. We're not sure yet. But it depends on if you agree to go up and let us go forward with the $75,000. At least from my work with the Tarant Foundation they'll tell you what they're going to give you. They tell us what we want and we'll tell you what we'll give you. Then you come up with matching funds. You have to do fundraisers. We're in a position where we want to show them what we're doing. Now I know that Shane has some ideas. About a year ago, we were still very hopeful that we would have additional funds. Then a few years gone by now. So far today we haven't seen any significant change in funding. We didn't want the project to be held up and lose another filled season with this contractor. So whatever we need to do to lock in with them for this summit is what I think we should be doing. We've got a pretty good part designed for about $75,000. That's going to be pretty awesome. If we had to pair it back a little bit so that we can still build it for the $55,000 that we have, that's a third business that Mike is working on right now. So that it would, I'll show you some pics. It would peel off a few of the features on one of the sides. Just to say, you know, I didn't give them the original, you know. So they don't, but it requires a little explanation. So in the top picture, imagine that the front edge is flat. So you'll have a mini jump box and a quarter with this other front piece would be flat and would have slabs and ledges and benches and grime stuff. That makes sense to you guys. I don't have a sense for my career. If that's going to be enough to drop, you know, the $20,000 or so that we're short to do that. What it does do, though, is instead of, originally we'd pitched a phase one build with this footprint with an 80 by 100 and then a phase two build which is roughly 40 by 100. The two phases together are in the left column showing the features and benefits. On the right column, if we paired down the design, we would have some flat skate terrain along with the ramp terrain. So we've got almost all of the same features that we would have had in the giant park kind of crammed into a smaller footprint. So as far as ability level and versatility and diversity of terrain, we're getting most of what we would have had with the two phases of the build in a reduced financial footprint and the same phase one footprint. So to me, if we need to pitch a reduced scale, we can do that just if only for the sake of walking into Michael's calendar for the summer. And it seems reasonable that, you know, would you guys hold us back if we raised more funds before we break ground and tell us we couldn't build the rest of phase one as we originally intended? Or would you say, yeah, you know, go for it. Well, the original phase one. So if we get approval for a paired down version, we know we can build that this summer. If we get approval for this and know that we have the ability to build more, if we get more funding before we break ground, that seems like a reasonable copy out to throw onto this. The goal being, let's not use another goal this season. Hoping we get funds. It'd be fantastic if we get funds. But to me, I think we can be grateful for what we have and enjoy what we have and not have it hold up the progress yet again. If you need just a curiosity, so if you did the $55,000 build now and say the money didn't come in right away, is that something that just, I don't know, another year or so, could you add more to that one? The intent was for this to be scalable. But the goal was to have phase one be kind of randy, tricky to build stuff and then phase two to be the flatter to build stuff. But there's nothing saying that a second phase couldn't be a mix of both again. Like if you took like a hundred foot strip of the skate park, you could move the jump box section anywhere you needed to. You could move the next thing with the spine and the minis anywhere you needed to. And you could move the skate plaza in eight foot or 12 foot chunks anywhere you needed to. So we can add layers to this to build up to the 5,000 square feet that were allowed to build. Funding permitted. Thank you. And my opinion is different because I really feel that we should build for the 75,000. I have been in contact with Mr. Parker today. He, we have, we have, we got in 2016 a lot of different proposals from him so that he could make the Tony Hawk, right? That court would apply for the Tony Hawk. Mr. Parker on his own time did those proposals. We never paid for them. We never, I acknowledge, really, you know, thanked him for, I think maybe we thanked him. So basically we diverted and I'm not sure why we diverted but we paid $3,000 to Spon Ranch to give us a design that was not feasible and that did not meet our needs. So for us to be keeping asking Mr. Parker to keep coming up with different proposals, he is not being paid for his time for all these different proposals. And that is why I think that we should accept the 75,000 one and go for that. So the current income that we have on here, the 60,000 in trees, is that what we actually have? Yeah, we have 157 to 8,832. Does that include the money that spent on design? Yeah, it's on on and on expenses. Yeah, Spon Ranch is only $3,000. So as you were talking in your correspondence with earlier about the in-kind part of it in the town? Yeah, so the first proposal Well, not much, apparently because the first proposal was that we received, Mr. Parker obviously didn't know which note fall to hit. He didn't know what we had for equipment. So he was looking for tracks, skid skier and things that we didn't have to, we don't own them, so we can't use them. So I wrote an email back to the committee and Shayna just said look, we don't own tracks. This is what we have and this is, you know, really helps. So we were going to take care of this way on the ditching and I spoke to Alan and said, you know, can you do the excavating of the 24 by 80 and you know, at least get the initial that taken care of and they said and Alan said yes because I talked about the project and what we could do and he said yes and Mr. Parker knocked $1,000 off his price if the town did that piece. But some of the work was we just you know, we don't own the equipment we needed so in-kind part was you know, we said we would do what we could do, obviously this way on the ditching and then maybe in the original excavation but we can find donations for raw materials like stone, crushed ledge and some other fill that will definitely help us a lot you know, I think he said the stone came at like $9,000 so if we could, you know, talk to a quarry you could donate some small few trucks of stone you know, that will put us in a really good place within spitting distance of the goal. But assuming for a moment access to any resources as it kind of looks today you know, what do we want to do and move forward this year? So I think that obviously I'm not sure what was the was my understanding from what I heard was that we were going to do some trucking and that sort of thing, move fill, I don't know what else the in-kind was supposed to be just some labor and I was told we weren't giving them materials and so obviously I said no to that and then the equipment you know, we just didn't have it and so I said we couldn't rent it because that wouldn't be in kind either so originally you said $20,000 in kind but it's not working out that way alright, exactly well, Mr. Parker is concerned enough about that water situation you suggested that we put in the catch basin and hook it up to the system and Al and on-site over there we've had some issue out there but also part of the water project is we're going to come down to the electric and it's my understanding that there is quite a there was used to be a ditch that's gotten filled in over time that would help that used to divert that water because we want it gone because we're going to be re-locating the swing set and doing some stuff over there ourselves so we also want to do it so I'm going to take a peek at that and we'll see what we can do we're going to put in a $7,000 catch basin either I can't deal with that this year so I don't have the money so it's unfortunate that the in-kind at least it's just not working out you know I know we've discussed it before just for clarity's sake so the rec department has a certain amount of money in their capital in their capital loan budget but their whole master plan a certain amount of that is allotted to the skate park exactly 57 that we've been talking about the remainder of that money is the responsibility of the rec department no it was your responsibility to try to remember all of it so we have the authority to say yes you can or no you can't we have additional funds towards this yep you're the only ones who can I can't spend capital fund the only you can the rec committee is just like every other committee they're an advisory committee to report so hypothetically let's say we approve the idea of the $75,000 version today but they're not able to approve the funds at some point they may come back and say here's how much we got yep what kind of soil is that there gravel, clay they need a base layer like 12 inches of stone I don't know how do you ground the soil that's there with me was that clay I couldn't tell you well if he gets clay he's going to have to do a lot more on his state work to set you a thing there because you can't build on top of clay because in the winter it'll be all topped up well you mean the ground there I don't think it's clay because the swing sense has been and I Kara would catch him and I went down with a certain pole thing to just see how far above the swing sense and we didn't come we didn't get any clay whatever doing that why is the water sink there it's because of the runoff but if it's not clay it's all going to the soil water standard usually is clay well I can't see putting 75,000 into concrete and have it all spewed up in another winter that's part of the the water system I've been in construction long enough and the foot doesn't get you out of clay my other point is I would like to see a performance bond on this too a what? a performance bond on this one I think he stated something about that and his he wasn't going to be building a performance bond right, yeah the amount of bond would be added to the contract okay how does that work yeah that's what I wondered how much it was going to cost smaller companies more money he is asking for like three stages of payment so if it's not laying he gets all the cash yeah and I have no idea what about you Doug, have you ever dug anything over there in the right area no, not steep it's what they need to go and check for clay you have to go down at least well it depends on the area that you're at the summer years we had to go down we hit it at 10 feet yeah so you never dug over there no I haven't I haven't so I don't know either I don't know well one would think that if you start the project that you'd exploratory dig over there to see what there is you'll run into something major than you'd haul construction at your place well if the rover was going to do the original digging I could have do that also they're going to be digging out the swing set so they would be digging in the soil I can ask them to dig test holes I can ask the rover to dig a test hole so I guess my position has changed since the beginning build it or don't build it just here to manage the financial things the recreation committee partnered with the voters are the ones that decided the plan over there but we've continued to have this you know a budget that we think we're going to get to with the design and then the budget falls through because of Tony Hawk money or other money we thought to come again and we've been doing this for four years now of you know last time we were here in May it was pretty much we need to even move forward and put it on the shelf and it almost seems to me again we're coming back forward with let's you know we only have $58,000 but we want to do the $75,000 of the work in hopes that we're going to get some fundraising you know I guess the way I see it is we either build what we have in the funds or we don't build it at all if we want to build what we have in the funds then there's an opportunity to do more in the future with other voter money things that's appropriated then that's fine but you know I would pretty now stand behind adding any extra money to it unless it was gone through the voters with it that's my opinion the one in your packet is the $75,000 I don't remember if you got the $55,000 after I remember when it came first but there is, as Shane refers to there was a $55,000 version I gave it $75,000 that was the most recent one we have so the concern is that with the $55,000 we don't have the equivalent right the $55,000 was if they was if the town was going to do you know all that kind work that they asked for but we don't want to track this year or so so there was things we can't do because we don't own it and the selects wouldn't know that time so I don't know I don't think we're talking about his first bid anymore we're talking about a third bid the one he's working on he's not working on it right now he wants to go with the two proposals he's not working with them I got an email yeah yeah yeah so so apparently $55,000 we can't do unfortunately the town doesn't own that we can't give the $20,000 in time because we couldn't give it in the way that he needed because we don't own it so then he came back with this new proposal which was okay if I'm going to do everything it's $75,000 and when I spoke down and went through it and asked him what he could do they got dropped to $74,000 but it sounds like from what Shane said if you don't approve the $75,000 you can build just as he's saying scale down with that money and then able to as he's saying if during construction they do come up with this money before he starts in June then you know then something built for how much $55,000 $55,000 that we could add on to down the road or even maybe during the time yeah yeah so the only if we can't start until June we would fence off that construction area so people coming to use the pool and everything would still be access to the pool, swings and all that we would just fence him somewhere in between a script down phase one and a complete phase one we'd be building two thirds and three quarters of the bells and whistles stuff on the feet by 100 feet side and if we have additional funds then we finish to the phase one we intended in the first place we intended to get those countered build it this summer Jason, Chris what is the performance budget because I couldn't really hear on in that case usually it's like it's like workmanship guaranteed so that might, usually they're typically a year so basically it's saying that they're taking out insurance so that if they build it within a year there's some kind of workmanship issue with with the skate park then the insurance would cover it to fix it or whatnot where it is right now there would be nothing so it's kind of as is built once it's built then you take ownership of it on the last day that's built and then something happens the next spring or next summer with it then you're stuck with what it is I'm finally moving forward with what we have in the budget and if you can fundraise extra whatever between now and when you're building over there then you can make it a little you can get a little closer to that goal we have there but I would say again I guess and everybody has their own opinion on this board but my opinion is that these committees are put together for a reason and that's really to in this case you're tasked with the master plan of the recreation area and the skate park is one piece of that master plan and it may have been labeled plan two of the whole master plan but you guys are in charge of managing that plan you're in charge of making sure that the money that allotted to the plan is being done correctly that's not being over budgeted or anything like that but at the same time you want to see something move forward so that's either like we talked about in May that's either let's move forward with what we have in the budget if it makes sense and if you can fundraise more then that's fine or let's put it on the shelf and let's move whatever whatever's on that because there is money in the fund to do more and it just seems like we've got to the skate park everything has come to a halt over there I know we did the trails but there's something else that could be getting done there that's my opinion is there more? yes so I've just been getting a little bit like you said it's been going on a long time so I'd like to see something happen as well but I'm just wondering when you said that there might be I might be hearing this wrong but additional funds someplace or something else don't we have an improvement fund in the town like could any of that be used or like if something comes up like this is a really good point about the clay you know so maybe you wanted to take a look at the performance fund if that's going to cost money or just to close a gap or something is any additional money like in our town's budget like in an improvement fund available for the second thing we have different funds in town but they're either like capital improvement funds which go for like buildings or highway infrastructure fund we wouldn't have anything else over there other than the rec committee fund so right now what we're talking about there's $57,000 that changed in that fund that's just for the state park but the total fund balance might be double that so there's another $45,000 $50,000 that's sitting in the recreation fund that gets appropriated each year that's supposed to be going towards the other items on that or any other park maintenance like we had to replace the pool pump and that was like less than $5,000 and the challenge with this has been there's been a certain amount of money that's been appropriated through the taxpayers which is around $50,000 and then there's different forms of some grants some in kind donations and fund raises things like that have added to that money and this park has gone from you know at one point I think the original one at least it was on the board it was around $8,000 and at one point we had to kind of say whoa wait a minute we'll get too big here because remember there were some potentials with some big grants and we had to kind of say even if Tony Hawk himself walked in here and gave us a million dollars we're only going to build a certain size so we've been from like here to here and we're kind of back to here again but I think everybody wants to see something move forward we also want to build something that is going to be usable I mean we don't want to just spend $50,000 because nobody's going to use it because it doesn't work but at this point I think we need to either move forward or shelf up and move another piece of the rec plan forward yes I got two questions what about liability and why did Randolph get rid of the escape park so I don't know why Randolph got rid of it there's Joe liability is covered through VLCT we have insurance for that and there's definitely signage that goes there about skating at their own risk but if somebody falls and breaks their arm we're not going to be liable for it and I don't know why Randolph got rid of it I don't know I didn't know they had it they had just some jumps but it wasn't a real escape park it was no idea on the Randolph piece Joe I'm going to check on that I think somebody got hurtly washed and I know liability wise would be covered under the umbrella and we were covered by that we work with the insurance company to make sure that proper signage because they're the one who's going to be defending us if something happens so we always work with them and we do all the rec sites to make sure that we cross to all of our T's and doctor's eyes so if somebody with kid breaks his arm you got coverage we're not going to pay for it we won't get insurance company will cover it because it's one of those that they're accepting their own liability by being there and I was saying if we work with our insurance company to make sure that that is the case by making sure we have all the proper signage and everything he actually comes and will tell us exactly what we need to post there so that they can deny the claim right yep exactly and as far as randall 5 I think it makes sense to spend within the budget that exists right now because a project of the size is going to have problems there going to be additional items that pop up because there doesn't seem to be any contingency in here so you're right if they want to raise more money so if something does happen grab some more money to deal with their very issues and we've still got some funds and people hold because if we want to be 75 and hope that we can come up with the balance of the funding that's my thought I can't go forward until we find out what kind of soil we got there we've had four years that should have been already settled so I can't support it until I find out what kind of soil is there I think I'm on the side of giving them a go ahead to get Michael Parker locked in for this year because I think if we don't then we really are just shooting ourselves and we're only wasting more than one year on this I'd love to see the rec department do some sort of creative fundraising and Shane I like your idea of you can get a donation of pressure gravel and we've got the quarry nearby I think it's about talking to the right people I'm sure they have pressure gravel if we can get that before you a little extra on the part of our coverings of what we did the other question was crushed ledge when you get it it's like concrete so it's already a super rigid easily sculpted shape before the fore so I think if you guys can get creative and both fundraising but also finding some unique donations like that which takes the legwork finding the right people but yeah, I would totally support that I agree with some names of the people and some gravel pits nearby that can help me on that kind I have to agree with the law I think that I've lived in Doug and played in the dirt around here not to know that if it is clay a food of whatever you put down isn't going to be enough maybe it won't break the first year within two years you want a professional foundation you might have to go down before you come back to town when this thing starts to hump up I would be very concerned to see not one test alone but what is this 80 by 100 it's 20 by 80 20 by 80 so you want at least three or four four or five people I would think that you're going to do some exploratory excavation out there before you get before Parker lands and starts doing any building and if you do run into an issue with clay there then a decision would have to be made at that time either you spend a little more to fix it or you don't and you shut the project down I think that you would just say there's a bunch of clay there we're just going to dig out a foot put stone in there and build on it because we all know that a year or two later it's going to be all cracked and humped up do you know how long we would have before parking Michael Parker in like do I have a month but three weeks like I may have to get test holes done I would think it's inside a month inside a month blocking him and me signing the contract and putting it on discount he's ready to put it on discount again and I'm not sure if that requires a down payment with him or just an agreement to the terms of his proposal and he'd want to sign the contract to do it it seems like the first payment is the 25,000 upon acceptance of the proposal to initiate work so essentially he's asking for a 25,000 so anytime I need to get three or four holes done they're four or five feet deep so I need to talk to the road foreman tomorrow what experience does the road through have in doing the foundation for a skate park no they're just doing they're just saying they just want them to dig some holes to see if they can collect them yeah I don't know anyone who's done any builds over there exactly so I'm first April so I don't have the only one I guess we could get a hold of was the McKernan group who dug the pool who reaped it all that I guess we could get a hold of the McKernan group and ask them what they ran into for soils that doesn't necessarily mean that's going to run the whole length there the pools are different yeah so I don't yeah I didn't know about Orange or whatever they just barely moved the park so skate parks so I'm not sure what is Parker assuming is there he has come and looked at the signs yeah he's come and looked at the signs did he dig holes? no Ray Harvey did some work over there did he? okay good I can call Ray so I think he did the digging on the building there whatever foundation I'm just saying if you're going to spend that kind of money it's a professional foundation not by the town no we're not going to put in the foundation the only thing we were going to do was excavate the 20 by 80 foot print and Parker is doing the concrete and all that and shooting the grades dig some holes and have some contractors come have Jeff Gilman come have Ray come and see what they think yeah but you think Ray is dug over there so I could call Ray and see what he ran into for soil yeah those guys they might come over and do it or look at it yeah but I mean we do if you have to go up to bed they know what they're what they did not it's a good foundation don't start with it and yeah that's fine I don't have a problem with that I just want to figure out so I guess my problem is now I'm not going to get four or five holes dug three weeks before we need to sign him up so I can call Ray and ask him what he ran into well talk to Mr. Parker and tell him what our concern is and tell him we'd like to make sure what we're getting into for soil before we go ahead and see what his viewpoint is on it is it really going to mess him up if we dig and find all clay and whatever can we still lock him in contingent with the addendum that we have to figure out what's going on with the soil first so just make a contingent on that and the other thing is hasn't two rivers nobody's asked about has two rivers have two rivers ever you know sometimes they do soil mapping and stuff I wonder about two rivers I can ask they do I just didn't know sometimes when what they'll do is they do this segment of your town and can kind of look and see what soils you have throughout your town somebody does the thing where I can ask I haven't seen all the land A&R the resources might be another venue yeah I can ask the culture's going to have all the soil samples through the whole street So we can look, I can check those in the next, you know, week to see if somebody knows what's over there. But I think calling Ray, thank you, Ryan, is a good idea, because that's what I'm saying. I don't know anyone who's dug over there. That's why I asked them to eat. He did the utility, I think, to water in the electric. It's perfect. But that's not down in that area of the site, though, is it? Well, yeah, but he dug deep enough across where the test courts are. I think people have a pretty good idea of what's over there for soil. Okay, good. Because he went down pretty deep across there. Okay, I can call Ray. And then as far as what you're saying, the only part of the town that's going to do is a little excavation. Mr. Parker is a contractor. He's going to pour all the, that was all part of his price. The 75,000 was for him to pour the foundation base and all the work. And it's like we're going to sole source it to him a while ago, because he'd been instrumental in the design and all that. So that was some, so that doesn't be a while. Between that and the performance boundaries, there's two issues that we are looking at. If that's what you guys decided to make, that's part of your motion. I would think that, yeah, the performance boundary would probably be somewhere around 5% of the amount. Okay. Give her a cake. Hey, Chris, is this, I haven't seen the picture of the new skate apartment. Is this going to be chain linked in like the pool is and locked at night? No. No, there's no effects. No. There's no effects. So it's all hours of the day and night. This is part to be used. Yes. Well, no, I mean, there's going to be signs there that say, you know, what the park is open until whenever, you know, sunset or, and then that's going to be enforced by the constable. That's right. Yeah. Just like the skating. Yeah. To accepting the proposal with what we learned about the play. I don't know who's best to sort of pursue that with Michael. Well, I can all call Ray Harvey and I'll talk to Ray and then I can just let the committee email the committee and let him know what Ray says is over there. But I think that's going to have to be part of the contract anyways is that because Michael Parker has a soft email price. If he gets in the clay, he's going to stop and be like, okay, what are we doing because his price is his price and he's not going to want to extend over that to deal with it. So I will ask Ray how much he's done over there. And then I can also look and see to Rivers A&R to see if anyone has done any soil sampling over there. If anyone can think of anyone else who is done over there besides Ray Harvey, tell me and I can get a hold of them too. I know, because I don't know about, you know, the swing sets and all that, who doesn't have a lot of knowledge in marijuana. But also too, maybe Carol Ketchum knows I can reach out to Carol. He might. Right? I can talk to Carol. He and I were there and he has this special thing that he puts in the ground and he put it in the ground. He and I did last year. And he, you know, went really deep down. I'll call him and I can call him and I'll call him and Ray just to see maybe, you know, Carol's seen something excavated over there too. That would be very helpful to us. Yeah, I'll call Carol and Ray and we'll look at two Rivers A&R and try to find out what we're doing. And then I'll just email you guys, you know, what I see, what I've found out. So we have two weeks to do all that stuff before we make a motion or do we need to do it? I think, yeah, that's up to you, but you can, obviously you can wait two weeks, that's your choice. I can, or you can make a contingent on what we find out. It's up to you, whatever your comfort level is. But I can get, I can talk to all these people for short and within two weeks. I mean, I can talk to them all week, but you can find out all. So whatever your comfort level is, it's your decision. But Chris is right, I can't get anyone to dig over there right now, so. There's no problem. Get off the road. There's no problem. Yeah. Well, they're tied up right now with weather, by the way. I could ask them. Worst case scenario, we'll send the road through over there. So we'll see what, if we'll get for information there. I guess before I send yay or nay on anything, I'd like to hear more about that. And I'd like to see what you're going to write for a contingency plan. Looks like it'll look like it. Well, I think it's, yeah. Well, hopefully we're going to know now. I mean, that's all you won't need anything. If he runs into it, you know he's going to stop because he's going to want more money. So you could just make a motion to take it with nuts. Two weeks. Two weeks. And until we figure this out. Yeah, Doug, do you have anything epiphany here where you think of someone who's dug over there? You call me. I don't want you. I was just thinking about who put the swing. I don't know what that is anchored to or what they're not. So that's where you, I haven't seen the joint for the part. Yeah. So for the state. So I have no idea where it's going to be. Where it's going to be put. Yeah, I'm right here. It's in the back corner. Here's a plan. Back corner. Yeah. Back corner on the catchings. There is time for you to move to the swing. We're going to move that. I think it's down. You can look at it. So yeah, who thinks of anyone? If we were to cable any more decisions on this till next meeting, do we still have time to do anything with it? Yeah, we just come back to it. I just want to have no, you know, what we're dealing with. So do we want to table it? Do we want to have a motion on the table? Okay. So we'll find out what soil is over there. I'll do it again. I think you can bring it back over there. I think it could dig it. Yeah. I'll talk to these guys too. I'll talk to these guys too as well. I'll talk to Carol and Ray Harvey and everybody just to... So, but just kind of the senses that you want to go with the 55 so they could ask Michael to... Right. Right. Go with the 55 and then that's going to be the fundraise. A little bit more. Okay. Between now and whatever, June or whatever you built them, then that's extra. All right. And I'll talk... And if we run into clay then, you know, what the stretch of the plan would be. Okay. Can you bring it more on the speaker? I think if you have, like, consensus... Can we stay on the next one? He's the word. Sometimes it's motions on the responses, I guess. Any further discussion of the seat, prior to anybody having come up here? Okay. All right. FEMA update. I don't know what to say, but... I know. That's a thing. So let's see. So the... Obviously... So FEMA, I... So we received our money from Federal Highways, so that's good news. That was a bother. No. So we have that money. And I've taken a... We've taken a draw from our line of credit. It's covered, obviously. So we'll take it all back tomorrow. So that'll be good. So Federal Highways, then, it's wrapped up. So that takes care of camping. Then I met with... Last week, I met with the river engineer and Chris Vaughn, the district manager. And the bridge engineer couldn't make it, but we were working on the RFP for the hydraulic study for Pinello Bridge. So they were very helpful and gave me some notes on that. So we're going to... I'll be able to get the hydraulic study out of it. So... Which was very helpful. And Jaron was great about Pinello Bridge. So the thing about this is it's crazy because we know what we want to do at Pinello Bridge. We basically like to just replicate what we have there. So what happens is we have a span of whatever the other bridge was, say it was 60 feet, then we're going to have to get pricing on the 60 foot bridge. The 60... Or whatever the next size of it is that the hydraulic study says. So that's going to require apartments and the whole thing. So that's going to be a price. And as long as we can go to the bigger size and stay outside of the river like we want to, but first I have to prove to them that it's a cheaper alternative than the other, which we know it's going to be because we wouldn't have before. And I asked Jaron one abutment we took out during the installation of the temporary bridge and the permanent bridge. I said, what are we going to do with that abutment? He said we could leave it there. So this is good news. So... So anyway, so we're at the hydraulic studies now and then once we get that back we'll be able to work to either hire our own engineer or put it out either with a construction like a design build or however we're going to do it. But I tried to convince the state again to sell us the existing bridge that was there, but no can do. They won't do it. So we're still looking for a similar design. But so the hydraulic study will hopefully go out by the end of this week or middle of next because they won't. We cannot move forward with the design of the permanent bridge until we have the hydraulic study done. So it's a pain, but anyways, that's where we are at. Moving forward, my plan is still is that we will install the permanent and yellow bridge this summer. And I'm hoping it looks pretty much like it does right now. That's the plan. And the state's on board with that. Even the gentleman who deals with mitigation for FEMA was on board with that. So we'll see how that goes. So that's where that project is. Then I met with Chris Bump again and we met with John from Du Bois and King who's doing the plan for Peabind. So his first plan was to shut down both lanes with traffic. And I was like, no can do. Now it's a 2.8 million dollar water. They'll burn me an effigy on the green. We can't get a good Peabind. So that's enough. So we have changed this so that right where you had Peabind Park at the end of the park before the slide, we're going to have contractors going to make their entrance there and kind of go along the river. So we went through the design and some options with John. Du Bois and King, he's going to make those adjustments and then that will go out to bed. The problem there is that and I'm going to resolve this hopefully Thursday with FEMA, the FEMA, I don't know how they came up with their design. We answered some questions, very few, and they put a price tag of $163,000 on it. And an engineering cost is more like $353,000. So I've sent all that information to our FEMA rep and asked them to forward it back to whomever came up with the first price to say, okay, and then to go ahead and set the money aside so that we can move forward with the design. So right now that's where we stand. The good news is it shouldn't disturb any of the pavement right there. Maybe it must have undermined a little bit. Jaren has given us a go so far on the permits because we have to be in the water a little bit right there and we'll work on that. It's a lot with something and obviously create like a dam that's going to hurt the water. So that process is getting ready to go out to bid but we need to figure out what FEMA's going to do. And I forwarded all that stuff to Jessica and I'll see Jessica Thursday. So here's our FEMA rep. Hopefully we'll have an answer from them. And then once we get that resolved, the big price difference, then that will go out to bid and Du Bois and King will be there a couple days a week and for somebody like myself or Mo to go over every day, take pictures, that sort of stuff during the project. So if everything works out this summer, we'll do the water project, Peaveyne, Pinello, and some reclamation at places of the pit. So we'll have a busy summer wrapping some stuff up. So I will have more information in two weeks and we'll have all the other projects except for what are we doing for the southwest, northwest? Yeah, whatever that project is. All the other ones have been submitted and they're in for peer review. So, and we already got our money back on the debris project because it was a small one but at least that's going through. So at least right now we've done well in getting all of our projects in. So that was it. And Jessica's been going to make sure that the expenses make sure hers is always a little more because I don't bill out for equipment, they reimburse for equipment. So at least we're finally wrapping that up because I'm going to try to figure out finish up tomorrow some measurements and pictures and then all the field work will be done. So it's been a process, that is for sure. But the good news is at the end of this I'm going to have some procedures and some forms and we're going to, so the next time this happens we're going to have some of the information earlier on that we didn't realize that we needed later. So, we'll do better that way. But so, FEMA's you know wrapping up and definitely I want the bridge to be fine. I don't see any reason that Penelo can't go in and Pee Fine will definitely happen as long as well it'll happen as long as FEMA can come up a couple hundred thousand dollars or they can work out that so to figure that out. So, I think you know it takes, it'll be about a year to get through the process from the minute that it happened until we finally get through it's going to be a year. It's a lot of paperwork in the process. Every single place that you put dirt they want it GPS and you have to measure and they want photos and it's pretty detailed so. Does that affect any property or do you know? No, Pee Fine? No, luckily it's no. We just happened to have a home mess trip. We were very happy because we've been working on easements for all the water project and so far I haven't had one person who may have bought but everybody else has been terrific and we've gotten almost all of our permanent easements and temporary easements for the water line project done so that's been good. Is that going on to bid? Soon, yeah. I think it's going to go out to bid in February and then it will be awarded in March. I think at some point in March I'll come to you guys and ask you to basically let me rubber stamp whatever the engineer, whoever the engineer picks as the contractor because of the process and when it's going to come out and when we have meetings, board meetings we'll have to schedule a board meeting just for that so just because I think it's going to fall between board meetings. So that's on that project and it's all on schedule. Anything else on the FEMA update? Okay, town manager report? Were you going to do the special event? Oh, I'm sorry, yeah. We had this special event permit. So it just says the license is named American Crafted Spirits through business as silo distillery they're out of Windsor they're holding a trivia night at Babes Bar it says silo will have a three foot table for display and tasting of silo spirits the event is Thursday, February 20th from 7 p.m. to 9.30 p.m. this is actually a special event permit so basically I will just tell the town court whether you approve it or disapprove it she signs it and then she has to send it to them and it has to be forwarded to them at least five days prior to the date of the event I think they did that once before when they first opened up they gave silo payment and did a table Yeah, that's it's usually people like this I'm saying if you have alcohol allowed at your if you did it as a forward best sometimes you see a lot of these around that time And who signed that? Actually, believe it or not the town clerk but it's all circle one approved or disapproved it says submit to town submit it to bevel for the location of the special event after action by local control commissioners that she got through the local liquor control and this application we forwarded to the Vermont liquor control board these five days prior to the date of the event so you guys just be making note of the minutes that you approved it or disapproved it, town clerk signs it and she sends it out to liquor control Make a motion and we approve the special event application Okay, I'll give her All right, now town man gets you for it All right So when I had told you that about the Okay, so yeah, so one of the things we used to talk about is Placy's Pit, so I read that Act 250 there's a file about this thing that the town office was to smart Placy's and I read that a couple of sideways ago and I called Bruno and associates because it looks like they had done the original mapping of the pit and I can't seem to locate a copy of the map in the town office so I don't know where it is but I'm just going to ask them obviously for an updated one but the Act 250 permit was very clear about how much you can excavate and then the reclamation and that you have to take the topsoil off that you're using and it has to be there piled and seeded and mulched etc and so we need to solve this mystery because Act 250 permit this is going to expire in another year so we need to figure out are we going to go in and do any all of the reclamation this year we're going to do some this year, some next year so we don't want to buy this and so we need to clear that up the interesting thing about this is the cost of the gravel it's already expensive we're paying $5 a yard plus about 350 a yard to crush it you can only crush on site for two weeks then it says in the Act 250 permit that you can stockpile a little bit at the town garage but it was really meant to go directly from the pit into a project town into a road right then and there so and also it said that you were supposed to put up I think it was 50 so much anyways there was a specific amount that was also supposed to do for places that they could not sell they were not supposed to sell commercially so we didn't do that last year but I'm not sure they want anymore so there's a few issues with that you need to figure out where we stand, how much we've excavated how much have we reclaimed and we have a time frame to get there so we need to figure this out and that's why I want Bruno and associates to go back through the site and make a site visit with myself and say okay here are the parameters here's what you've done and maybe here's what you need to do and here's how you need to fix it and then make the determination is it worth it for us to continue to excavate from this site do you want to ask for an extension on the permit there's costs associated there is it really worth it so I did look because we had someone in the pit for us but it's pretty clear in that 250 language that that is a municipal operation so my concern is that we're going to get in there and we're going to find out that this is a cost and we have to go in and close and we hopefully all the material is there because I'm not sure I certainly know we have an budget to close a pit so I just need to find out what's happening there hopefully it'll be good news and we'll figure that out sooner rather than later and we'll deal with it I met with Gary Slack and Bill Reiner at the town barrage which is very kind of them I was really looking for the parameters of the old dump so that we could move forward with the town barrage so it was very helpful in telling me where everything was the septic system, the leech field so it was great I showed Alan today because Alan wasn't sure either so this will help us figure out if we're going to change the sighting we still need to do some soil warings because there's still a couple of issues there but it was very helpful and appreciative that they were, that they did that so the ventrax is VTC was maybe interested and they said they have a lot of cooks in the kitchen up there so I sent that information a while ago I had Kelly post it for sale on VLCT's website and let's see what else we have trying to do some zoning enforcement so the listers were kind enough to give me a couple of files on things that they found that the permits were an issue for a gentleman came in and spoke to him and said oh it wasn't right, a letter and he was like great took care of it right then and there I issued another resident a letter not to the degree of a notice of violation just kind of like hey let's, this is what the issue is in case you weren't aware we need to get this taken care of before we move on to that so we're trying to wrap up any zoning issues that we're aware of right now to do a little enforcement the FYI taxes are normally due on the 15th but that falls on a Saturday and we're closed on the 17th of president this day so taxes will be accepted as on time on February 18 and we'll also be issuing water bills that week so slaving you can always come in on Friday don't have to wait till Saturday no no you can come in on Friday but just so you know I don't want anybody to be upset and say hey you're closed we know but that's the deal I think people have been coming in and paying now anyway they'll be noting paper also explaining that so yeah I mean we have a mail slot in the door so people can pay them but just in case there you go there you go that's it so I think the other things in your packet um just some information provided us that I thought might be of interest to you was there a reason you were in the sovereign immunity? I mean it was fascinating but I'm just curious was it just something that you know CT sent out and you were giving us actually it was something I was reading because we're talking about sovereign immunity and I was reading just reading about it because we had an insurance claim not when remember when we had the hole in front of the town office so there had been an insurance claim there and the people that had made the claim had been denied by an insurance company and so I was just doing a little follow up reading and kind of refreshing my memory on the whole explanation of sovereign immunity so example if someone falls on the sidewalk the sovereign immunity they're not going to be able to sue us they might try to sue the business owner but I also sent you some pictures I know but anyway so that was kind of how it came up and then Chris had sent me some pictures and we talked about it so I thought it might be a nice article for the board to read because it is interesting I'm not all-encompassing either but it is a little bit interesting about how it works so no not a huge impetus not something we need to be graceful that's what it felt like no it was something that Chris had brought up and I had used the term I had used the term and we had sovereign immunity and then I thought well you know what that might be something to have in there for explanation just so you obviously saw that he received some positive comments on the drug board names and you saw the letter I wrote to the Royalton Board etc so are they ready? are they not? so it could be a very busy summer you get all that stuff I couldn't quite tell if that letter was for or against the ordinance that's for I think he stated he was a little disappointed that the cards came out of it because of his own issue but I did delve into that a little bit further with A&R there was a state statute and I wrote to the gentleman up there and said so here's the situation we don't have a bylaw saying that we can do this so they're not necessarily violating our zoning ordinance they're both violating the state law and so who's going to deal with that they were interested in it and they said if anything they would come down and deal with it and I was like perfect so I forwarded some images and things to the gentleman so he was helpful yeah select board minutes for the 27th of January we're having questions below so we're going to move the matters forward move to move the minutes as written all in favor pretty much everything the planning commission had meeting notes in there the town reports have been mailed out to residents they have but I'm not sure they haven't received them yet so just so you know there's three issues right now that I'm aware of one is I made a mistake in the warning about Lincoln's term it was two years not three and I was looking at a prior town report so anyways that's fine the warning you guys end up you actually saw it just correct and we talked about it the other one was is the junk ordinance so not a big deal a non binding referendum so although we know whatever the rovers say if they want it you're going to pass it if they say no you're not so it's fine it just means that the believe it or not the residents don't have the authority to pass the ordinance they have the right to appeal yours and put it down but so basically you'll take what they want you to do for the next meeting you'll take care of that the other thing is we had noticed in the town court I'm looking through it and I realized that the articles are numbered and perfect is 12 and we realize that a piece of 13 is missing in the room but so which is fine we McKelley is going to do is print out article 13 and put a couple per page and just you know traditional wording put it on the chairs and so it's not the end of the world the warning that has been posted around town is accurate and that's all we needed really so other than that I think town court is really good McKelley as usual is a great job and this here featuring was helpful we did some editing for her and stuff so she always manages to find the right pictures and work it out so but I noticed the warning that we signed to make it into the no because I said that that night we were trying to make her schedule worked out but it's fine you have the original as the one that's posted around town for legal of the warning so you're good but other than that I think came out really well gives everybody the information they want so that's I saw that the state the resolutions that they passed was a lot of them time what's that when did they do it it was pretty recent this session so just in January probably as effective they wouldn't have made it the bill number take a look at it they must make it effective as of like July 1st or something because they wouldn't have done it some will go in January 1st because it doesn't make sense that they would have approved it now knowing that people would have been in the minute of doing their warnings and BLCT didn't say anything about it so I wondered if it's going into effect but not a big deal that takes you two minutes at town because we did have Kelly call people who were town age and et cetera to see if they were still to let kind of move ahead a little bit quicker instead of waiting for somebody to volunteer at the last second like I just said we're missing there's 12 and then if you get up here there's a piece of 13 that's missing and I don't remember being like that in the proof but maybe after a while you'll look back one of those things and the school is not in here this year the school is going to be generating their own so I don't know where to see that well that's what they said and then we went to print and they wanted to put their stuff in after we went to print they did that last year too and we waited but this year she was actually printing out they called in a Monday and Pam was like I called you, you said no and it's being printed as we speak so you're on your own folks so next year we'll have to we'll try it get it out but they were clear this year that none of them were going to but then they changed their mind so we'll see in their defense this state is terrible without getting out numbers for them to do their budget oh I'm sure oh are you kidding we were waiting for that we're racing to get the budget ready for March because they won't give any numbers until we were waiting for the last minute to print tax bills this year because I was waiting for the state to give us the education rate I'm like look I didn't want to have to do two but if we got any later we would have issue one for municipal tax and a second one a few weeks later for the school and I was like no no no we don't want to do this it's going to be a nightmare for people that's it so next meeting will be your big budget informational and everything and um anything any other business coming forward I move to adjourn second favorite