 Welcome to Think Tech Hawaii, time for responsible change. And we're gonna talk a little bit about hopefully some bright spots that we can hope for in 2023, if there are any. I know that the political leaders have made that a challenge for us, but I think we have a panel that is well up to the task. We have Tina Patterson who's actually coming to us from Calcutta, India today, if I understand correctly. Mediator, arbitrator, business consultant and master of many trades. Retired Judge Sandra Sims, author, working on her second book, who we're still waiting for the novels to start coming out, move over John Grisham. And Ben Davis, professor emeritus from the University of Toledo School of Law, dissing professor at Washington Lee School of Law and still on the move, who knows what may be next. So welcome aboard, we've lost some incredible music legends in the last couple of weeks. One of my personal favorites, Jeff Beck, just an amazing, amazing, amazing guitar musician who moved it from DR birds and rock over into the symphonic. David Crosby, a solo artist as well as one of the founders of the birds and Crosby stills, Nash and Young. But we're gonna reach back to kind of a theme from another long ago musical artist, Dusty Springfield, whose big hit was called Wishing and Helping. Sandra, you wanna start us off? What are you wishing and hoping for for 2023? Well, what am I wishing and hoping that we do better, that we can do better as a society, do better as a world. We've got a lot of issues to address on so many levels and while there is sometimes that tendency to kind of think, oh, it looks so bad, but actually I think we're kind of heading the right direction in some areas. I'm a little concerned, I'm not a little bit very concerned about the gun violence that seems to have kicked off the year. And that, I don't know, I'm not sure what to say about that other than how tragic it is and what is, I'm not sure how to characterize that. On the other hand, I think politically, we're actually gonna come out okay in the issue. Sanity is going to prevail. Yeah, I mean, it's gonna emerge and prevail and that should merge first, but. It does, we know where it's not emerging. Right, it's gonna emerge first and then prevail. I don't know. It's good. Okay, Tina, some thoughts, wishes and hopes for 2023? Wow, Chuck, that's the timing of this question is most auspicious. We just started the Lunar New Year, so I'm sorry, Year of the Rabbit, most intended to be a lucky year for most. What am I wishing and hoping for? What I'm hoping for is that people's requests to be treated with dignity and respect will resonate to our leaders, whether that's federal, state, local, or public servants. We are seeing time and time again that people are not responding in a very positive way when they feel that they haven't been heard and that their wishes or desires or needs are not addressed. Thinking about 2024, I'm hoping that this year will give us opportunity to find solid political candidates for the 2024 election cycle. I'm also hoping and wishing that our leaders, whether that's local leaders or leaders at higher levels, think about the legacy that they're leaving behind for our young people and consider how they want to shape that narrative. Right now, it literally looks like a dust storm and it's not the dust storm of Dorothy coming back to Kansas. It's the dust storm of us just going, staying in a cyclone of, I'd say conflict and we can't stay here. It's not working well. It's not working well. It's literally destroying us, the very fabric of who we are and putting the basic needs of people in challenge. So I'll rest there for now on my wishing and hoping, but yeah, I'm hoping that the seeds that we plant now will result in some beautiful flowers and not the weeds that I've been seeing lately. From your mouth. Brother Ben, what's on your mind? Well, you know, with the passing of David Crosby, Crosby Santos, a national young, has no longer lost one of its main members. I remember when Santos used to sing those wonderful solos as part of them back in the day. This was a joke. I don't know if anybody caught it, but it was a joke about this guy in Congress, this guy named Santos, who they've been a million memes put about him right now. Okay. This is Crosby Santos, Crosby Santos and Nash and Young. Yeah, I got you. So with the loss of Crosby, that was an effort. Okay. Put a little humor in it. We got it. We got it. Okay. It took a minute, but I got it. All right. It's low level humor. I'm sorry, folks, but I always work it. You know, hope for the best, but I always sort of plan for the worst, you know. That way, if something good happens, I can live with that, you know. And the way, you know, it was interesting that you started with David Crosby because I went to the 30th concert at Woodstock in 1999. And there were two concerts. There was the Woodstock Rip-Off concert, if I can call it that, which was at some particular place, I guess. It was a real disaster. There was actually a movie about it. Then there was a thing called A Day in the Garden, which was actually organized at the location at Woodstock. And I went to that and there was Richie Havens and there was Arlo Guthrie and Arlo Guthrie's kids. There was David Crosby and his love child kids who he'd sort of come back to. There was Melanie and her kid, right? And so it was like 30 years later, what would you expect would happen? And it's like, well, those kids of those cool people were cool kids too, you know? And they were doing interesting music, right? Okay. And one of the things that really got me is that David Crosby, I guess it was the last song or something, he sang Ohio, OHIO, you know, about the- Poor dad in Ohio, right? Yeah, poor dad in Ohio, right? And it resonated, those incredibly 30 years later, it resonated. And the last thing he said as he went off stage was, that's why I came here, you know? As he's going on stage, it was to sing that song and then bring that energy. And so when I'm doing sort of planning for the worst vision for this year, I'm looking at, you know, that's why I came here now to do, to do, to act, to try to do what we can, to make that hopeful reality occur, even notwithstanding all the different backlashes and things like that. And I don't know, just a feeling that I got recently was like, that's what I need to be doing is like, you know, just like the guitar riff of Ohio, it just starts this thing going that, you know, to try to do in the modest things that we can do in our places and notwithstanding, you know, substantial forces that are out there that are retrograde, you know? I mean, that, yeah. So what is the line that somebody said, when did black people say we were gonna give up? You know? So we, you know, we just keep moving forward on trying to move things in the way that they should be and just trying to find places where we can help on those things. You know, I just saw a thing that happened in Memphis, I guess, where this guy, they're five police officers who beat up this black kid. This black guy, 29, he killed him. They're all black. You know, there's a problem with that, man. There's a problem that that's not what we were about back in the 60s when we talked about integration, that you would integrate in a way that you would be oppressive to people, right? So it was like, you're integrating the way to be something better. And so it's like, okay, we've got to find a way to be better. We got the Asian American community out in the West Coast going through all that stuff about all those killings. It's like, that's not the way, no, anyone in that community wants it to be. We got to find a way to make that kind of thing not happen, you know? And I don't know what the answers are, but what I'm just trying to say is the activism is the thing that really, I think of this year is being the most, a particularly important thing so that that, you know, hopeful activism, I think of is gonna, you know, that's the way I kind of think of it. I can plan for the worst, but that doesn't mean I have to sit around. My congressman here, Bob Bruce was one of those five who were blocking the appointment of McCarthy, right? I mean, this dude was, I mean, really right there, you know, and I'm like, wow, look at this, this is what I got here. Okay, well, we got to deal with him, you know? And not to say that the other 100 or so we're gonna be great, but it was just interesting to have your congressman being one of those guys considered out in the wing of the wing of the Republican party, right? You know, it was like, wow. I look at the people around me here in Charlottesville, they're not that kind of people, you know? I mean, the people I know, all kinds, they're not that out there, you know? There's a space there that's got to be, you know, main manifest, I guess. Got to be occupied. Yeah, yep, yep, we're getting there. We're in a way though, you know, with the, I don't want to, not that, you know, congress means everything to everybody. It's sometimes it's just tiring to kind of listen to what goes on there because it feels like it's just going nowhere while the rest of us are trying to get life done here. But it's, you know, with seeing that so-called Republican majority is so very, very slim and so fragile and so unlikely to really get much accomplished is almost like a positive thing because it's gonna push the needle on some things that will need to get done, that they won't have the luxury of being able to stall everything, I guess. And sometimes I think about that, that may be hopeful. But I don't know, I don't know if you've been, I just, yeah, I think that in our, while we fixate on Washington, when we fixate on, you know, those issues, things are taking place in our communities. The folks are still, like you say, still pushing, still working to get things done. That's still taking place everywhere. We just, our legislature just went into session this term and the last couple of days and I'm working on this women's prison project and we yesterday was the state of the judiciary. And we now have a woman's court went into session, what was it, yesterday or the day before yesterday? It's for a session. Recognizing that many women defendants, and this is not all, but you know, that a key issue with many women defendants who are criminal defendants, are used to victims of some sort of abuse or trauma themselves and women who are incarcerated. Generally, I mean, there's some exceptions, but generally gonna have been abused or traumatized themselves. Many of them are parents themselves. And so this notion that you must continue to incarcerate them is both well, both poorly for the rest of society as well. So just seeing that kind of effort take place that's just saying, okay, we recognize that this is an issue that we can address by looking at this population that's in our criminal justice system. And let's say, wait a minute, they don't necessarily have to be there. There's some underlying issues that we as a society can't address, and we should. So stuff like that is like, yes, I feel that. That's like, that's true. That is, you know, I know, Ben, when you're teaching, you're probably getting the same. When I was doing a class in criminal justice, Shamanana, I often said, we have all these great books about what the theories of why people commit crime and all of that, we spend a lot of time studying that. But there's just a couple of things. It's race, trauma, and you know, that's kind of where it comes from when you're gonna have criminal conduct. It's, you can always kind of pull it back to those issues. So, yeah. Well, I think it's, you know, just that record that, you know, you've made me feel so good from just telling me about that woman's court by this idea of a recognition, a recognition of something and trying to make something that speaks to that for recognition, that is not just sort of, you know, ignoring. It's like, you see something, and we're gonna try to do something about it. And, you know, it may work, it may not. But the point is, it's like trying to do something. I think there's a lot of that. I think there's a lot of that in this country. I've been reading things about people, even, you know, so-called Republicans, like, hey, can we just leave here, please? Instead of all the cinema, can we actually do the job of public administration that needs to be done? That kind of stuff without all the game playing on all the stuff, you know, that we've been living with for a long time. You know, I like to call it the Elon Musk crazy. You know what I mean? It's like, we don't need to be crazy. We don't need the Elon Musk. We just need to kind of make it work kind of thing. And just make it work for everybody, you know? Well, I'm glad I made you, I was able to make people. But our Chief Justice here, Chief Justice Reptile Ma, he's amazing, I should, you know, kind of Google him and look up some stuff he's doing. He's quite innovative in so many areas. I am, I know Chuck knows as well, we're very, very impressed with the stuff and the things that, you know, he's putting forth. And he was, you know, and I don't mean to make it, it's not all politics, but he was, you know, appointed when we had a Republican governor. Yeah, Chief Justice. And she is the one leading the push on getting the women's court. She's retired now, but she's pushing for the women. She said, because this is, she's got time to do this now. That was important to her then. And now it's what we can work on. Yeah. It's just a, that's a, at least that's, I feel good about that. Yeah, it's wonderful. It's wonderful that just the sensitivity, you know, it reminds you of like these veteran courts when they, a lot of veterans are getting in trouble. It turns out, well, you know, it turns out there's like a unity that has a certain set of issue that maybe needs to be addressed in a little different way. In a different way, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was, that was uplifting, you know, to hear him and to, well, I've seen him work. So I know what that's, you know, feel good. So there's things, that's a, that's a hopeful thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Let's see. And you folks are bringing out some themes that really need to be front and center. Again, they haven't been for a few years, but they need to be. And that's the people of conscience and character are not only speaking up and standing up. They're listening. They're paying attention. And they're paying attention to people who have endured undeserved trauma. And they're looking at their situations with respect and understanding to whether they're homeless, whether they're women, whether they're domestic violence or sex trafficking victims, or whatever it is they may have been subjected to. Lack of healthcare, inappropriate healthcare, abusive employment treatment. We're beginning to recognize that these patterns are the ones that are at a causative heart of behaviors that we can no longer afford to ignore or tolerate. Exactly. And we have to disconnect these people by respect and understanding from the violence, from the guns, from the revenge, from the mediciveness. That unfortunately too many people in leadership still embody and exemplify by their behavior. Yeah. So we have to shift that. Control of the narrative needs to come back to the people. The people of conscience and character. That's it. That's absolutely it. Like I said, we just, oh, Tina, you're getting ready to say something on that point. I'll be really quick. Chuck, I'm glad you mentioned talking about trafficking. January is human trafficking awareness month. And that's one thing that I'm really happy to see is that there's more collaboration among agencies, the grassroots agencies, as well as the law enforcement, as well as those organizations that are doing monitoring and tracking. And they're saying, look, this is a global issue and it's not just child trafficking, it's sex workers, it's migrant farmers that have been put into spaces that under any circumstances are not livable. And what do we do about it? If you see something, say something. And here are some resources. It's just heartwarming. I know in Sondra, you can relate to this. Not more than 20 years ago, this was something that you couldn't get people to talk about, you know, that human trafficking is not happening in like, or in that other space. And just to see this collaborative effort I think is one of those moments where you go, it's finally happening. Is it perfect? No, but it's a start and it's better than it has been in the past, I believe. And people are listening. You're listening and taking action. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that made me think, Tina, of an idea which was that, you know, we're seeing a lot of predatory behaviors being revealed, okay, that behaviors that we had sort of gotten accustomed to or somehow. And then maybe that's one of the things that came out of the pandemic, you know, was like watching. I mean, I've heard that people, for example, with regards to their work are disinvesting as compared to what they used to do because they realized something's going wrong here that this is not giving me the satisfaction that it's supposed to. There's something going on that's not right, you know? And the kind of things that you're talking about with regards to there's something going on here that's not right with regards to this human tracking this person here, this person on the street, you know? You know, and what we can do about it, what we'll be willing to do. And actually, I think the state and local and federal government get involved too. They have the resources, you know, they could put to it if they wanted to. You know, I think that there's people recognizing there's a lot of predatory stuff goes on. A lot of predators in a broad definition of predators taking advantage of people that it's, you know, for whatever weird reasons they're built that way. But that does not mean that that has to be the way we have to be in this, at least in this society, I think. And in this world too, you know? Yeah, yeah. Jean, I'm glad you brought up the trafficking too. I was at one of our Swaptis meetings on Tuesday and we had a representative from the Missing Children's Program here in, and she was actually trafficked some years back, kidnapped and trafficked. And, you know, she was like a normal person. She went out on a date because she'd been divorced and got to know this guy next thing, you know? He's like, okay, pulls her into a, well, I don't need to go into her whole life thing, but the point of it is that once she got out, she kind of dedicated her whole life. She's been doing this now for 12 years to address the issue of trafficking and educating and informing people. And that's, and she shares some things. When you talk about the international aspects of it, she said, they work with, she says they work with from the police department to Interpol. That's the range of enforcement that her office is engaged with and trying to find children and addressing this issue. That was, and I hadn't even thought about, you mentioned that, Tina, about the worldwide effect of it. And that's, I hadn't thought about that. You know, you see what's happening in your community, but you realize those connections are international. That's who she was, that's who she's worked with. And it's, they're making a lot of profit, they're making, I mean, it's, like you said, it's still a lot to be done, but there's, at least there's a recognition. 20 years ago, we would have just thought, nah, it's not happening. 20 years ago, there was no interface between the US and other agencies. The US did not recognize some of the protocols that were in place, where Interpol was working with foreign countries and saying, oh, you know, we see this pattern and the US said, guys, no, not here. We've got this going on over here. You know, the whole topic of human trafficking started because of a report written in 1999 by a CIA analyst, and it was focused primarily on three cities. And what really made the turn was there was some trafficking occurring in Atlanta and a law enforcement officer said, I don't know what to do about the traffickers. And he ended up using RICO laws to begin the process. And again, you're seeing, just at the federal level, you're seeing at the state level, and I know when I was in Texas, we worked to put legislation in place where the traffickers assets are frozen and they are not allowed to move because they're in jail, but there's also wraparound services for the survivors of trafficking. It's again, huge jump. That made a huge difference and people's a willingness to come forward and to, because they were so frightened, she talked about that. They're just so frightened. You don't know that this person's gonna hurt your family, they're gonna hurt the children, they're gonna, you know, the fear was so powerful that they could not move. Absolutely. And the US at that time had a policy of repatriation. And then there were both NGOs and local groups that you've got to do something different. So now there's visas in place and there's also, depending on what the background is, you can use the violence against women at some of the measures there to support survivors. So again, one of the things to wish and hope for is this conversation regarding trafficking and the impact both globally and locally is something that we look at. There's states like California, I know Texas, migrant farmers are involved and supporting the economy. But where it becomes inhumane is when that person believes that they're going to be paid for their services and never receive that funding or they're held essentially in bondage. Yeah. And they don't get it. That's the other side of it. Yeah. Yeah. There's this, you know, just think about the way the people in the meatbacking industry were treated during the COVID, you know? Yeah. Absolutely. And one of the ironies was that, you know, he said there's a line workers but there was actually the managers were being treated just as bad. You know, it's like, you're all being played. Everybody got the idea. Everybody got played. I'm being played too, you know? Yeah. Everybody got played just for the sake of the chicken wing, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'll do more of that. How the chicken wing, Xander. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I did something with just a little bit more substance to it but I'll go with the chicken wing. Yeah. Good. I mean, I don't mean to be, but it's, that's what we're talking about, you know, it's just, yeah. Well. But those are hopeful things. These are all hopeful things that are occurring in this time, this recognition. And children are interested in learning more about civics, which ties back into knowing which body of the government does what. It's kind of, this is, again, the hope, I'm hoping that the adults will get on the same train as well. And try to learn. And try to learn and understand. You know, learn something before you comment on social media, kind of read the story first before you make your comments. Spread other things. Yeah. Accurate headlines are a wonderful thing. Indeed. You know, it's like, is it what Stephen King saying, if it book is banned at your school, run to the library and get it so you can read it because it must be good. You know, I mean, it's like the flip of the whole sort of, let's close down and close the mind. Like, well, let's keep opening the mind, you know. You always hope for things. I was happy to hear that there's like some pushback in Florida on the African American studies thing. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I was like, are you gonna really do that dog, that dog whistle one more time, folks? I mean, I mean, I know, I think white people are tired of this. He was like, please man, stop pulling my chain. Well, you know, I mean, we all seem like. I was happy to see that. I was kind of concerned. It's like, we're not getting any pushback on this. Like, it's gotta be. Yeah. Like they say on ESPN, come on, man. Come on, man. Yeah. And we're out of time for today. Oh. I wanted to, and we could go on for hours and hours or days and days, but I wanted to thank you all for doing exactly what Joni Mitchell in the original Woodstock song brought home to us and David Crosby reminded us, we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. It's a collective garden. It's a collaborative garden. In communication and in action. And it's our garden for all of us. Thank you for bringing us back there. And thanks to those in the entertainment industry for reminding us, it is where we belong. And they do. Continue your mission, Tina. This was great. Likewise, both of you. Great to have you back together. Take care. Happy Lunar New Year of the rabbit or the cat or whatever. It's a rabbit. Your animal is a cat in Vietnam. Yes, it is. In my house, I got four cats. So it's four cats here, definitely. There you go. Take care. Aloha. Aloha. We'll be back in a couple of weeks. See you, everybody. Much love. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktecawaii.com. Mahalo.