 Ja, kan je het doen? Welkom over te ene Lieke, go ahead. Dank u, Martijn. Dank u, Béa, voor de background tech support. Wel, en welkom alle die in het horen van het presentatie van Lieke en mezelf over het Dutch Acceleration Plan. We konden het de Butterfly Effect 2.0 en het is referent aan de presentatie die we vorig jaar hadden op de OE Global in Milaan, waar we ook over het Acceleration Plan en de Butterfly Effect het was 1.0, want we zijn nu een jaar verder in onze presentatie. We zullen jullie vertellen wat we dit vorig jaar ontdekend hebben. Wie zijn we? Lieke Rensink. Lieke Rensink is een deel van ons project. En hij werkt op serve en ik heb de honor om het project te leren en het project te vertellen in een paar maanden. Dit is een agenda we hebben voor dit meeten. Eerst wil ik jullie meer vertellen wat dit Acceleration Plan is voor die die ons presentatie niet veranderd hebben. Wat hebben we in 2020 ontdekt? I hope we can have some discussions about what do you think about this plan, what are your tips, what do you think we are doing wrong and do you have any suggestions that will be in the end. First about Acceleration Plan. Acceleration Plan is a Dutch collaboration between all universities applied sciences in the Netherlands and also the universities, the research universities in the Netherlands. So a total of about 50 institutions. And also the collaborative IST organization serve where Lieke is working. And our Ministry of Education, Coaching and Science who is financing this whole program. It's a four year program running started beginning of last year and it will end at the end of 2022. So we are almost halfway now. The plan has divided in eight what is called zones, topic areas actually. And each zone has a team. There are members, they all are members from Dutch high education institutions. Institutions could decide to connect to a zone and participate into a zone. And so most of the institutions in the Netherlands are participating in one or more zones. Each zone has also a team captain and what is called the connector. And those are the roles, the team captain and the connector roles of Lieke and myself. Here is a picture about the organization of the zone. So you see the eight zones are those colored zones. The circle. And you see each zone where they are, what they are doing activities for. So for instance zone flexibilisation is working on more flexible forms of offering education. The attack zone is looking into what can attack start-ups mean for adopting ICT and innovating ICT in institutions. And our zone is about digital educational resources. The complete name is towards digital and then open educational resource. And open is between brackets because we are not only talking about open educational resources, we are talking about all digital educational resources en we'll come to that later. Well, there is a program team and the steering group which is more or less in control of the whole program who is guiding and beating the program and you see those little dots, those are the connectors. So this is Lieke. And there is also a support team like communication, marketing, the secretaries to make appointments and organize all kinds of things. And the whole thing is led by a steering group and a program team. And the same program team is the program team which is here. Well, so much about the organization. Our zone towards digital open educational resources they have eight institutions participating in collaboration to our ambition we have set for our zone. And this ambition is this. So we have said, well, when we stop our activity, so at the end of 2022, teachers as students will have the opportunity in learning and teaching processes to easily determine and use their optimal mix of learning materials. So you see, that's our core, core object, the optimal mix of learning materials. So this optimal mix can contain a mixture of open and closed materials, digital and non-digital materials that is dependent on, for instance, what students like, to have the best education possible. So this, that is our ambition. And we have a kind of thinking model to which decide on how can we accomplish this ambition at the end of 2022. And for us, the starting point is education. So actually, our starting point is good education and good education in our view, follow the theory of constructive alignment in which the teaching and learning activities, the form of assessment and the learning outcomes are well aligned. And this is at the start of when you think about learning materials because learning materials affect the bottom two. So the assessments have the effect on the teaching and learning activities or are decided by or are dependent on the teaching and learning activities you as a teacher design and the form of assessment you want. That decides which learning activities or learning materials you will use. And these learning materials can be in a continuum of close to open materials. When we talk about closed materials, on one side of the spectrum, then we talk about all the learning materials which are on a no circumstances free accessible and reusable or adaptable. And in most cases, those are commercial materials being available. And the open materials on the other sides are what is called open education resources. So they are free to access en they have the 5R rights. You can exercise in which conditions are determined by the Creative Commons license. In most cases Creative Commons license which are added to those learning materials. But there is also a range of materials inside. For instance, in our institution for this university of applied sciences we can buy licenses for certain learning materials from commercial vendors. And then for our students and teachers those learning materials are within the borders of fountains free to use. So you can call it semi open. Or you can publish learning materials maybe only within a certain group of users. For instance, in the Netherlands there is an initiative for medical professions. They have their own repository of open learning materials but those learning materials are only open for those within this community. This is also called a walled garden. So those we call in most cases semi open. And let's see them because now I'm blocked by the this better. To use these learning materials or to access them there is an infrastructure needed. And this infrastructure is both technical so there is a technical infrastructure to use those materials but also organizational infrastructure as research has shown for teachers using digital learning materials for most of them that's rather new and innovative especially when it is open learning materials they need support and they support for instance on ICT methods, on IT methods support on educational methods additional methods when it is open learning materials copyright methods. But there is also needed an accommodating policy that this supporting structure is actually in place and available and guaranteed within an institution. And finally when teachers and students will create their optimal mix of learning materials and principles and those principles can be very personal for instance teachers can ideally say my preference will be for open learning materials because that's what I don't want to have, I don't want my students to pay for learning materials and students can have principles for instance well my preference goes to video learning materials so when they want to have a choice in their optimal mix of learning materials well that's actually the framework the thinking framework we use for all our activities we do in our project so what have we done in 2020 well we have split up ourselves in working groups within our project and these are the topics each of the working groups was working on in this year we had a report for a change process as I said earlier for most teachers working of making the change to work with digital learning materials or making the change to work with open learning materials is actually a change which can have cultural effects which is transition from an old to a new situation and we want to support institutions in making this change so we are working on two kids that the institutions can use to accomplish this change the second working group is working on the stimulating reuse of learning materials and they are focusing on the reuse of open textbooks and what they have done this year is made an overview of all available well if it is cool I don't know but they have looked into the most well known repositories with open textbooks in the English language and they have created the list of about 30 to 40,000 of those textbooks and they want to describe these textbooks in terms that for teachers who are looking for a replacement of their current textbook don't have a list of 20 best fit textbook but only get a list of 2 best fit textbook or 3 best fit textbook so that it is easier for a teacher to decide whether or not this open textbook is a good replacement for the book they are currently using the third is the professionalize working with OER we had a lot of teachers have not sufficient skills to work with OER they have trouble finding the right OER they have trouble determining the quality of OER and they don't know what is to be done with all those licenses we have worked on the workshop and this morning Dike has presented in her presentation together with a colleague of SERV about the workshop which is developed for this topic and next year we will continue or we will follow up on this a fourth is a group which is signaling an agenda setting we had a lot going on on many materials all over the world what we are doing is monitoring all those activities and when we think it is necessary for the touch high education to get connected to that we try to get it on the agenda in institutions of appropriate groups which are for such a topic is available for instance what we have signalled is that a lot of recognition and rewarding using open learning materials is something which is almost not available in institutions we are now trying to put this on the agenda of a national initiative which is done outside our zone which is called recognition and rewards which is working striving towards another way of rewarding the university people and not only publishing sufficient papers and papers is the only way to assess their quality and we try to get on the agenda also the rewarding for sharing open learning materials or more broader for using the learning materials and thereby creating good quality education and working group communication dissemination is thinking about communication both about our zone and disseminating the results we have in our zone and we are closely working together with the communication officer of the plan the last tool I have made is infrastructure and content we want to go deeper into this presentation we start by the activity towards vision we got we have developed a vision with horizon of 2025 and the reason is that well using digital learning materials both poses challenges and also poses opportunities and board members of the high education institutions which are gathered in one of the zones want to take action on this topic so they gave an assignment which is described here and this assignment was given to our zone to develop such a concrete vision we have created a vision document presented to the board members and this vision document is available in any translation very soon well as we speak this translation is being made and we expect that in a very short time next week maybe this will be available on our website we had a second assignment a study to met the current situation high education he was a chief researcher we worked closely together in both trajectories because of course this vision was built on the results of their study so that this study made clear what the challenges and opportunities were and our vision connected to that ok our vision we have formulated our vision in 11 points of attention in 8 vision statements and 5 building bots for realisation and we also gave a priority for our view and we are working group from our zone we created together this year to create this vision and we used this is a kind of model to categorise all the information because both in the research Ben has done as in our assignment there was a lot of information available and to get an overview about this information we devised this model in which we see actually two dimensions the first dimension is the level which are the three circles we have distinguished between a micro level which is the level of the individual teacher which is the level of the institution and we have the macro level which is the level of the collaborating institutions or serve or maybe the Dutch government for which certain results or certain statements are valid for and we also distinguish between six dimensions six aspects in which you can distinguish when you work and think about learning materials so we think about education strategy and policy culture and human resources development the organisation of technological infrastructure economic and financial issues and legislation and regulations so this was the model both Ben used and we used to map our vision statements on to and the vision statements we created we created three statements on the vision about the vision on learning materials because one of the statements is that each institution will have formulated vision on learning materials derived from the vision on education so the thinking model I presented earlier that your vision on education and the way you want education to be is leading for the way you want to learn you want to use learning materials so that is formulated in these vision statements and it is not only that this vision is formulated but also that it is implemented and known by teachers en the teachers are acting according to those are the three vision statements about vision we also created a vision statement on reward I told you earlier about this recognition and rewards initiative and we think that rewarding teachers for their good education is crucial in their attitude in working with digital learning materials in an innovative and qualitative high way because it is something institutions should define we also think there should be an organizational infrastructure for the things I mentioned earlier to support teachers in their endeavors and also to support students and it is more than only the copyright experts it is also the educational technologies it is also the ICT departments which are part of this organizational infrastructure and also there is a national or institutional technical infrastructure in which this optimal mixture of learning materials can be used and then it will go deeper into this after I have told you about this vision we also think that instead of now that pain by institutions of the learning materials would be a good thing to have for two reasons first which is touch legislation in touch legislation you are not allowed to have students opt out for learning materials so when instead when you offer a way to prescribe learning materials students always should have an alternative in the old case when you have analog books they could buy for the second hand books or go to a library and have books available there or buy from the fellow students who did the same topic last year but for digital learning materials this is harder to have this license alternative requirements in our vision when you pay as an institution for these learning materials the students don't have to buy them so they can use those learning materials but the second is because when you as institutions pay these learning materials the commercial vendors of learning materials publishers will do business with you instead you have a much greater force to accomplish changes for instance then you have a force to create a system of arrangements which can be followed by all institutions in which you have made arrangements with commercial publishers for the lifting of those educational learning materials digital learning materials and also about the used data the data which is used and which are used and are kept at the platforms of these commercial publishers and you can make arrangements about this and you are much stronger when you join forces and when you do that as individual institutions you are more worse as individual teachers so those were the reasons we created those two vision statements and then we also defined five building blocks which we think can be used to come from the current situation or as our Eastern neighbors say the East situation in the year 2025 the soil situation in Germany and every building block addresses one or more vision statements and touches on one or more points of attention and here are those building blocks so you see for instance that this vision and organization touches on three vision statements and so all those dependabilities are made visible and you also see that every vision statement is at least by one building block is touched by at least one building block and our priorities we have given to the board members is that first work on this national set of agreements and this technical infrastructure work on an open model both to stimulate using open educational resources but also to have a good alternative which can be used next to commercial learning materials for instance when you don't have don't come to certain agreements and then use the open model as an alternative and the third is that we think each institution should prioritize working on this organizational infrastructure and especially in the current case where we are almost completely going online well the expectations are that we want to make sure sufficient sections will be available so that we can come out of this current situation and then will everything go back to normal and when everything is back to normal what current users or what current experiences with online education will actually go blended but when they go blended the task for the organizational infrastructure to support those teachers will be much larger so we think that it is wise that institutions already invest in expanding their organizational infrastructure for when this crisis is over and now I will give the floor to Lieke over de infrastructuur en content oké, dank u Robert ik zal wat meer over wat we hebben gedaan in de infrastructuur en content group de group consists of five members from several higher education institutions and together we try to achieve this goal where teachers can find, create, edit and share various forms of content in an open setting or closed with a group and we focus on open educational resources but also semi open and commercial content so it's the whole range it's actually one on one with the vision Robert already mentioned to realize this in de infrastructuur in 2020 we had a preparation year we call it so we first needed to obtain better insight into the exact needs of lecturers we want to jointly create and edit and share their learning materials we focus on teachers working together with other teachers in their own fields so really the professional communities really as the center of successful working on OER so collaboration with like minded peers and this is our starting point and we had four main activities in 2020 and the first was we conducted a requirement study and the goal was to really get a supported set of requirements and methods for the infrastructure and in order to gain that insight we conducted the requirement study among 26 professional communities communities of lecturers and we did this in a network we had a network strategy so we had a little group and they all knew some communities we were building a community in this network we invest in that network because they are going to be the users so we want to connect them now to this project and the work we are doing we identified a clear need from both the technical infrastructure and I will tell you a little bit more about that later but not only the technical infrastructure also the organizational services around the infrastructure were really important a second part was a content so we did a desk research into available and relevant content and repositories open and commercial content and now we are developing a strategy to link the content to the commercial content but also a strategy for semi open content to the infrastructure we conducted several technical explorations they are still going on right now around collaboration tools and collaboration on specific content types and it is all preparation for the innovation we want to do next year last is professionalization of the library staff by library staff we are mapping current skills of the staff we are looking for gaps how we can support them the activities in the workgroup the infrastructure and content are a joint effort and the zone the collaborative organization in Dutch education we collaborate we want to make sure all the national initiatives go in the same direction we want to make sure that everything is connected in recent years surf has developed an infrastructure and finding open educational resources and this infrastructure will be made available from 2021 as a service for Dutch education the focus of surf has been open but because of the work together with also the zone it is getting more and more a combination of materials that is what we are focusing on now but the starting point is the existing infrastructure of surf as it is but also from third parties what are we going to do in the next years 2021 we want to invest in innovation we want to encourage the use of the infrastructure we are going to invest in support and another enter please we also focus on four activities we want to further develop the existing infrastructure can you still hear me yes I heard a weird noise we want to invest in in the infrastructure for instance a dashboard for communities on top of the functionalities that already exist for example editing video open text books, making, publishing collaborating on documents but also issues of copyright quality marks and version management we are also looking at the commercial market what are possible solutions that we can link to the infrastructure as is we want to conduct more technical explorations in the activity around content we want to unlock the third party sources of commercial and open content via the infrastructure that already exists in the third activity we want to invest in a support desk we want to offer assistance with the implementation and the use of the infrastructure and content we want to accelerate adoption and also coordinate the knowledge there are a lot of different groups working on this and we want to make it a network together and provide an adoption team for support and supporting materials and to accelerate the adoption we want to offer a package of instruments for institutions to get started and you can think of instruments to set it up local roll out the infrastructure and help from the adoption team within your institution this is all now in plans we are hoping to do this and the goal is in 2020 we have 30 higher education institutions implemented the infrastructure successfully within the institutions in the Netherlands we want to have a higher education both serve and acceleration plan are focused on higher education but also MBO can use the infrastructure and PEO and PEO have their own in the Netherlands Robert, maybe you can you are muted Robert still muted the primary secondary education they have their own infrastructure which is maintained by Kennisnet and for instance part of this infrastructure for the open educational resources is Wikivice the vocational education MBO in the Netherlands they are supported by Kennisnet and supported by serve I think they will use both they actually use Wikivice but they also in my opinion will make use of the infrastructure of serve but they currently have their own acceleration plan so a year after we started in 2019 they have started in the beginning of this year with their own acceleration plan for education innovation with RCT we are in contact with each other but currently we have no joint activities yet because they have used this year to start up and had a lot of difficulties starting up because when they wanted to really start everything was locked down Liga, are you ready with your presentation? Ok, then I will go to the second part of this workshop and this is actually a question to you as audience you have heard what we are doing do you have any suggestions do you think watch out for pitfalls do you have maybe experience on some of these topics and how did you do this in your context so this actually I want to give to the participants stop sharing the resource maybe a good start is to go into the chat window Joost Goudkomenig asked a nice remark which might be a good point of discussion with this great initiative not be real success when students and professionals start to use it in high education in universe of applied sciences the connection connecting professionals with education is going on a lot I myself for instance and connected to a project 3 jaar, over de nursing, er zijn er al 17 high institutions, high education students offering a nursing program. En in nursing, well, a lot of the teachers are working part-time, as a teacher and part-time working in practice, so there is automatically, these professionals are already collaborating with the teachers. I don't know how this is in the research universities, I think the connection between institutions and the professionals in the field is not that close, but maybe, correct me if I'm wrong, and maybe that is also dependent on the field. In for instance, management science topics, which will be larger than, for instance, in mathematics, I guess, but I think you have a good point, and I don't know, it is a good point to take it into our plans, how can we connect professionals to these areas. Infrastructure, for instance, in its part of lifelong development programs. So yes, that's a good suggestion, thank you, Joost. Yes, you're right, I see your comment, Joost, at the nursing, I thought this is great for professionals as well, and they actually are using it. What we tried to accomplish last year, which was not made easy because of this COVID, but they will do what we are aiming at in the follow-up of this project, is to connect professionals to the community of practice also, and reach out to those professionals. And you already have connections with the VNVN, it is the cooperation of nursing professionals, which has, I think, 200,000 members in the members. Can I send your question back at you, what are you finding difficult? Is it not confusing in the platform includes, now I see two things. Can I send your question, what are you finding difficult? What I find difficult is the complexity of the field, as I tried to see in this ordinary model, there are so many aspects you have to take care of, and which is on so many levels, which are very interconnected with each other, where forces are playing, which are hard to get the grip on. I think that is, I find that the most difficult, and how to unravel this complexity into manageable pieces so that you actually can make steps forward. Considering open learning materials, I think the adoption of it is, although we are working on it for 15 years, it is still not at the level, maybe it is still not mainstream. And I know my teacher in OER, Fred Mulder, who unfortunately passed away two years ago, he said when we started with VQIWISE in 2009, we did what, that was a programme of five years, he said, well, at least you need 20 years to also have this cultural change, and that openness is, well, is more or less into the, is more a natural way to think than as something apart. I think he's right. And in the last years, I also did some research about reusing OERs, and how is it done. And we found out, for instance, that teachers in computer science are much more willing to reuse resources. And when I asked them for that, they said, well, that's something we are used to naturally, because when we are programming, we also look for resources, we don't program from scratch, we are reusing pieces of code and mix them together to programs. En we do the same for learning materials, and that was, for instance, compared to nurses, that was our nursing educators, there was this amount of reusing on a much lower level when we measured that. En the BAB put it in the paper somewhere in the coming days, this paper will be published over practice, so keep this platform, keep your eyes on the platform. On the note of, you know, the nursing project, Mathilde Smith asked, are there OE practitioners, sorry, in with clinical programs. I don't know. I don't know if that is the case, because I don't know what the clinical program is. En just before Yoast commented, is it not confusing when the platforms includes also both closed and commercial materials at the same time. Of course, I think that will certainly be confused when you have one point of access to all these kinds of learning materials, and, well, it is, we have to think about them, how to make this confusion less. Can you react from that? No, yeah, we don't really have ideas about that yet. It's about when you go to the search engine and you're searching, you get the materials, but some also are semi open. That's also confusing that you cannot reach those materials either. We're looking into it also on a technical level, but that's really in two years time we will be there and not yet. We have a team of people who are, how do you say it, who help us, like the network to make it better, so they will start using it and then we will find out what will work and what won't work. Right, Eric Worth said on the model earlier of effective teaching in regards to the continuum of closed to open materials. Have you mapped out where various types of materials may fall. I am thinking about public domain materials free online that are copyrighted content license differently such as those with non derivative. I know you mentioned that material purchased by a library would be towards the middle. We have not made that mapping. I don't think if it will be really, really felt for students, it is, it is not an issue at all because students, they use everything they, they, they find on the internet, and which is available for them, and they don't look at any licenses and also teachers, Although they are aware of license, even if they are aware of licenses, the research I talked about a bit earlier, found out that that only one third of the teachers who are aware of license actually act accordingly. And there is no difference if they are reusing the learning materials without adaptations, they are not looking at any license at all. In most cases, in many cases, open access only without the aim to change the materials or to adapt the materials is sufficient for situations. So, so therefore, I don't know if the, if it will be very worthwhile to make this mapping because in each context for each individual that could be different. Of course, not for the things like public domain or, et cetera, which are always on the most right part, the only part of the spectrum. And for all the things in the middle, people use it, if they, if they can, and if they are allowed to, and if they are not allowed for certain types of use, like adapting, they should be geared to materials which are, which they are allowed to adapt. En daar, de library, can have, can be a huge support to help those teachers and to find it out. That's how I feel about it. Practically, you offer the materials based on content, for instance, and then it has a price which is closed or open, but it's the content that matters. Some links have been shared in a by Robert en Lieke in the chat. I saw a question from Bea. Yeah, nice, nice question, Bea. Well, when you share your materials, when you're working for the TU Delft, I think when you create your materials for the TU Delft, the TU Delft is the owner of the materials. So when you change employment, go to Leiden, you are still, you have your intellectual property, right? And so you can maybe recreate those running materials and then you use it in Leiden. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't mean to actually, I didn't mean to actually open that kind of forums. No, I was more thinking in terms of, you're absolutely right. So if I create something for when I'm working for Delft and copyright stays with Delft, but I would still have moral authorship over moral rights over the materials. So I could still use the materials that I created, as I'm thinking, right? So my question was more towards, correct me if I'm wrong, because maybe I'm getting this completely wrong. But so if at the moment I have access to surf, for example, because I am employed by one of the higher education institutions in the country. But if I stop employment, and it has happened in some of the projects when we lose one of the student assistants, for example, that was a postgraduate working in one of our projects and they created something and then they stop. They're not with the university anymore and they go somewhere else. It's like we, this person pretty much loses access to surf unless they go to a higher education institution in the Netherlands where maybe they can actually, you know, but they would be creating a new space in surf and not. See what I mean, what I'm getting at is this idea of continuity. I think you have a good point and then maybe that's, but that's something maybe also surf. I don't know if surf is thinking about this, that surf is something from collaborative is owned by the institutions, the collaboration of all the higher education institutions in the Netherlands. En, but, but, but then you are only thinking about the regular education so the education you receive as a student between 18 and 24 years for instance. But, but the same institutions are also after alumni, the same institutions also offer programs for professional development in life on learning trajectories. En maybe, maybe surf should also consider to support those, those people who were once in an institution, but left this institution because they were ready, and still have their services also made available for them. Dat will change also their business model, I think, because currently the services, some of the services are free and fall into a certain package, which, which are offered for all institutions for the for one one price. And some of the services, you are extra services from surf and you have to pay this for institutions use them. But, but how about services offer them for people and keeping them open for people who are not all already, I think there's a good question and I don't know is surfing surfing thinking about all these kinds of things. Needs to connect. Sorry, I have a hearing issues, I'm sorry. Difficulties, yeah. Just give her a sec. Yeah, we cannot hear you yet. Yes, I'm back. Yeah, there you are. Sorry. I missed the question. I'm sorry. I'm my, my, my. The question was serve. Is her thinking about expanding their services to, for instance, people who are once working at the at the universal or universal cloud sciences, or study students studying there and had access to the services, but expanding the services to people who are not anymore in this field. I think we have to discuss this with each other because also also. I think it's important also for the community focus, when you work together and what was the discussion earlier on, when you, when you work in a community. It's not only people within the higher education institutions. So they also needs access to the systems. So yeah, I can imagine that there will be different kinds of access to, to the infrastructure. I think we need to discuss this more because my colleagues from from surf, they know know more about this, but I don't think it's on the road map yet. But we'll take it into account, yes. Discussions in surf. And I think Ben added a good comment on this. And it's both has to do with, you know, the copyright of whatever comes in, let's say, and accessibility and showing what goes out more or less. Yeah, but, but the question of payout goes further than just the resources, but also to services around those resources, as I understand, understood well. For instance, search portals, or community portals or so. And that's right, but we can also mentioned when we think about broadening communities, community of practice with professions in the field and these professions who also have access to services, which are used by this community. And that is, that's, that's a way of thinking. I don't know if service already thinking about it. I think maybe from another zone, where they are talking about more flexible, Paul learning path for students, they are, they are researching now for, for different scenarios, where one of the scenarios students working in the field, en also learning part, partly in the field, because he or she is working and, and in some times going back to the institution and take some some courses and then go back to the to the field and take that as a path to eventually come to a degree. En dat, in those kinds, this is the same students in the meantime when they are not connected to an institution should have access to services also and not only to resources. En I think it is not, not, not fair to say, well, publish everything openly because then you don't have this thing because everything open in many cases, that is not possible. En in many cases, there are absolutely fine, close learning materials, which are very, which are hard to, to, to find. I don't know the English words replace, replace with open resource because of the, for instance, the platforms needed to play this content. But I, I think, missiles fokussing high education, fine, the same time can we try not to exclude other types of education I absolutely supported Bayer, and I think I know that on the field of learning materials, and I see yon matter thôi is also present here in de audience, Jan Bart van Kennisnet, en we werken bijna samen op deze infrastructuur. En dus er is eigenlijk, en voor het eind, de nursing-community is opgepareerd in de leutend-mutale, en er zijn meer communities in in high education using requires to share the learning materials so this is try, I absolutely agree with you and actually Ben and me did some research a couple of years ago for focus on the area of technical vocational education training and there we noticed the same thing that this area technical education training is largely underserved by the open community, we noticed that and we also made note of that and so the focus of the whole open community should maybe be less on higher education solely and I think the expansion of focus from the open education global to K-12 education is a good way to go far and to go there to the road but maybe it should be done more and more done more research into those areas will open and not only focus your research on openness in higher education but now I'm deferring from the topic we are discussing now. We have plenty of time to do that so it's valuable. Maybe if you want to go back to the topic that you showed in your presentation to the discussion on. You mean the last slide of. Yeah, yeah, or do you feel like you've discussed, you know. I feel as there are no other suggestions or tips or pitfalls. We've got a lot of suggestions and things important to work to take with us in the management crisis. So, yes, I'm happy with it. Right. How can we help further, Bea? Goed question, maybe we can. Maybe we can, when appropriate, we can contact you for support or when we think something can be useful, I see. We can nodding also. We had over a beer, and I think I'm saying yes, let's do that. Over beer, yes, of course. Over beer, some bites. Yes. Gino will provide the catering. Okay. Thank you then for presenting some of the in the chat, you shared a couple of links do share them in your underneath your abstract on the connect platform as well. I'll put it in the chat here. You are okay with closing or is there anything else you want.