 So hi welcome everybody. Welcome to a new episode of what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean every Wednesday at noon Today we have with us Carlos Rohn, who is the vice minister of foreign affairs for North America of Venezuela and I thank you so much for joining us today So So we we want to talk a little bit about what is going on in Venezuela right now, but before going into All this Iran-Venezuela relation and the tanks coming on that we have seen in the news Lately, I wanted to talk a little bit about what is going on here in the United States So all this social explosion that we have seen that took the whole world by surprise because we didn't know that Something like this was going to happen right now We can try to see a little bit of Resemblance of what happened in Venezuela on 2014 and 2017 with the guarimbas The only big difference is that In the country of what's happening here what the guarimbeiro said in Venezuela With a lot of violence was asked for the head of Nicolás Maduro So they were they want their ask asking for a redeem change the country of United States right now where Protesters are just demanding for social justice But all the political class in the US Stood with in solidarity with the guarimbeiros But when people here in the US are demanding for social justice you can see Trump asking the military to come in and repress this Peaceful protest So can you talk a little bit about this? What's your impression? Haven't seen what happened in Venezuela Well, I think that you know To start with the issue at plays that you have group of people that have been excluded for a long time in the United States that have been excluded for reasons of race reasons of the economy and Really there you know somehow they're expressing the frustration I guess What happened in Venezuela in the 1417 and and all these protests that that you mentioned It's the opposite. It's the privileged class for the first time feeling that they've lost those privileges and somehow trying to Aggressively go out on the streets and and regain them from a popular government. So you have so you have a an opposition That you know, it's really asking for enfranchisement or asking to be included or to participate Well, rather was asking to maintain privileges and to maintain a certain part of the population excluded and one key factor that where you see race for example at play is that in the you know, even Exactly three years ago. We're you know and and just a few couple days ago. We commemorate it three years of the death of Orlando Figueiras, which is one of the ones, you know, one of the that's the most impacted Venezuela because this was an Afro-Venezuelan who was on his way to work You know and and he passed by one of these opposition concentrations and and The people saw him and they said, you know, hey, you know, this guy Because of his skin color because of the clothes is wearing he must be chavista He's infiltrated and the mob just went after him and you know beat him up They stabbed him several times and then, you know through gasoline on his body in a little bit of fire This was one of the hate crimes. You know most memorable hate crimes. It wasn't the only one I mean, it was there was over 20 of these in these cases, but this is one we remember Because we you know, we we saw a lot of pictures. There were videos and and and so forth So so this same racism that somehow wants to you know, keep a group of people excluded in the United States You could see it in in Venezuela in in in in those years and now with what I think you see, you know Also is that the same policy in a way of exclusion of putting people down of somehow trying to control People and cost-offering to the other. There's something that you see Translated into foreign policy in the United States. So the same way you press people down and you press them In the United States with a police state now you also have it now Now you also have it in the foreign policy through sanctions You know through these unilateral coercive measures that the United States uses that are they are illegal and they're trying and you know They're trying to keep the Venezuelan or create the most possible suffering onto the Venezuelan people so that they produce the regime change that That Washington is interested in So this is more or less what is happening with gasoline, right? Because We know that gasoline is a very sensitive subject in Venezuela issue in Venezuela, right? So what do you think is a strategy here? The US What is the US trying to do to Venezuela? Well, see in the same way so we talk we usually talk about when we talk about sanctions We talk about the you know things that are most obvious and and they're most Important from our humanitarian standpoints people immediately talk about food and talk about medicine, which are you know, obviously? Priorities now what we don't talk about so much is about other types of measures that also affect seriously affect The you know people's lives and for example one of the targets and one of the main targets in recent times of the US measures has precisely been You know gasoline because with when you target gasoline It's then you stop, you know, that means you use you put brakes on food distribution You use food breaks on the distribution of medicine and you and you generate this the sense of of, you know I don't know the spare between the pop and you know, I'm on the population because you got a thing You know, you you you're forcing people to be on the streets waiting for gasoline lines and some people have to you know to to need to have their Gasling the cars because they need to go to the doctor's treatment. I mean I have a relative for example, you know that he He's my uncle he goes under dialysis treatment and he has to every you know every two days He needs to you know, go to the hospital and get that just not something you can do at home That's what you need to do at a specialized place and you need transportation for that So imagine what happens to people when you start blocking that and this is purposely done by the United States because they know of you know They they've been doing this for a long time They've been they've been envisioning how to block gasoline in Venezuela First they did it by taking over Sid go or when Sid go our car But the way the the oil business was distributed in Venezuela We produced the crude oil here and it was refined in the refineries in in the United States In Sid go and then it came back as gasoline or we you know There's some refineries here in Venezuela would also process gasoline in a lower amount But they usually imported some components which you go into the mix because it was you know It's cheaper to do that and and and and then you know sell off the crude It's just a way that the business was set up when you take over Sid go and you take that away from from From the equation then you you're blocking the entrance of gasoline and then they started blocking all the companies all that You know all the ships and tankers You know everybody that somehow was responsible for bringing the components of Venezuela so that you could process gasoline So in the meantime, you also accompany this with this with this Campaign telling people you see this is the problem of the socialist government of you because the social government How is it a probably producing company? Country doesn't have gasoline and it's basically because of this blockade So that's why we went into this arrangement with with Iran and you know We've had a relationship with Iran for many years This isn't a new relationship. This isn't something that because now, you know, you see some people trying to make up fantasy stories in their heads and and and you know and try to say oh This is Iran trying to get now into Latin America, you know, like like the bogeymen story but we've had a relationship with Iran since the founding of OPEC and We've gotten closure in you know in the last couple years because there's there's an integration of cooperation and because precisely where the country is trying to Overcome the five these Messages from the United States what we did was a simple purchase purchase gasoline and components so that we could get our refining started here and all of a sudden, you know The media is and you know the State Department is trying to blow the surface of this was something that was illegal And but you know minister has a right like any country to I was gonna ask about that because well also I wanted to say that they're also threatening to to sanction the Captains of those ships and the people that work on those ships that what is Just crazy, but anyway, so I just wanted to talk about the way that this gasoline was purchased So they're trying to criminalize well the US is trying to criminalize the fact that The Venezuela's buying this gasoline with gold. So what is your opinion about this? And can you since we're going to talk about the gold? Can you talk a little bit about the gold that is in right now in England? Well, two things first of all, you know the the payment, you know, we paid we made this purchase in in in currency in dollars Wasn't made a purchasing in gold what the United States? Spokesperson are trying to do though is you know create this idea that Venezuela somehow conducting illegal activities in order to and you know purchase these You know purchase gasoline or whatever they were doing because they need to sell narrative The Venezuela is an outlaw state and that anything the Venezuela does, you know, it's on its legal Law, it's not it's just it just didn't happen, you know, that's not we made a financial transaction like any other country would have made a transaction it wasn't gold. I mean it wasn't it wasn't that a That type of transaction But they're trying to create these rumors, you know and and so that If it was really paid with gold is there a problem with that I mean you have the right as a country to Well, that's a that's that's a very valid question, too I mean again, we're a country making a purchase for another country has it's not illegal. I mean we have a right I mean and you know coming from the United States the country of free trade and you know and and all this promotion. It's actually a An attack on the principle of free trade now you mentioned golden and you know what? We we have you know as part of the blockade because you know It's not only that the US financial system that has blocked us But also, you know, we've been blocked by by some European countries and for example some of the gold we have some more reserves that were Under custody of the Bank of England. Well now they this they the bank, you know, we what we try to do We'll say look we know you block this illegally However in the middle of this pandemic, you know, we need to we need to use our the resources We have so that we can provide for our people so In order to avoid all this and we know you're doing this legally but in order to avoid all this mess We are just asking that you transfer the money to Accounts belonging to the United Nations development program GDP and They would do the purchases necessary for medical equipment and and you know these supplies that we need to You know to cope with COVID-19 We're not, you know, it wasn't going to go to a Venezuelan government account. It wasn't going to be handled Anyway, it was going to go directly to UNDP, UNDP knows what our requirements are and then you know, have a big night They you know, they they they started this They said that they couldn't do it because they didn't know again, you know Questioning who the whose authority it is. So now this is going on to trial To see, uh, you know, because we are suing the Bank of England to see, you know, if we could get our Gold back, but again, it's it's the same principle that you know, you There's no regard. There's no concern for the life of people And this is why the the the sanctions and and and this whole policy is criminal because there's no way You know, the people say, oh, but the the there are exceptions There are no exceptions because whatever even if you try to buy things that are supposedly Exempted you have, you know, do you have all this blocking from the, you know, the the financial system Not only the u.s. You can see it, you know, it works in the in the in the British financial system Anything that's connected to you as financial system So these are criminal actions because they punish a whole population In order to promote, you know, this this stabilization and to promote a change of government and that's, you know, that's something we reject That's what we call, you know We denounce it before the international community And that's why we're taking the u.s. To the international criminal court as because these actions are for us Crime against humanity Yeah, so you you were talking about how this sanctions or Actually, you were saying that U.s foreign policy is strangling The venice well with the sanctions that is imposing. So can you talk? I know you have already maybe talk about this a lot But can you explain to maybe new viewers of our show How is exactly how is this affecting In with the corona virus. How is this affecting venice well? Well, like I said the the perverse system of of sanctions is precisely, uh, you know Comes in a way that if you have, um, you know, um First of all, you need you need to find Who uh, per who who is willing to sell you what you need? Because a lot of companies are scared To provide supplies to venezuela because they believe they're going to be, you know, somehow there's going to be repercussions So matter of fact, just to get an idea couple days ago, uh, there's there's a Mexican company, uh, um Which issued a statement, uh saying that, you know, they they, um They were basically taking the bankruptcy the arrangement we had with this with this, uh, uh, Mexican company was that we provided we provided, um Oil in exchange for food and some medical supplies The sanctions and the and you know, and the other measures that you know went against this company again There was no exchange of money. It was, you know, basically oil for food oil for medicine And there was pressure put on this company So much pressure that it took it to bankruptcy and they filed and they and they and they came out with the statement saying You know that they were no longer going to be able to, uh, provide what they were providing for venezuela So, you know, this is a persecution of anybody Which was food not I mean arms or, you know, Was food food and medicine that's that's that's what it was. So again You see When you find a company like that one who's willing to to to sell then, you know, it gets hit with sanctions When you find a company that is, uh, you know And then if you find a company then you have the promise of how you pay because you know, the the banking system is is blocked You don't see, uh, you know, the the resources are are are in the our frozen accounts or they delay too much And and then things end up costing three or four times the cost that they would do You know, uh, they would otherwise Do it and you know, we've asked we've asked the united states to you know to to use the money that's frozen those in those Accounts to buy these items You know, we asked them we came we came in the purchase order. We gave them what, you know, look, this is what we need You know, take, you know, if you say that there's no problem with us buying food and medicine This is what we need. These are the accounts that you have Do the transfer yourself if you want, you know, tell us what company you want us to buy from and we'll do it And what's the answer? Oh, well, we can't do this because uh, and then they start, you know They could they start with that story that, you know My dude was in the present but they recognize why though and they go this, you know myth And all they do and then let me tell you all these people are doing is basically sustaining a bunch of crooks You know what they took over a sit go I said to go ahead a foundation that a lot of our people our viewers in In united states know because the simombolier foundation is the foundation that used to help out a lot of social projects and you know the community projects in the Bronx and and in in uh, in uh, Washington DC Casa in maryland, which is a, you know, for example One point was was was a project that they helped because you know that deals with uh migrants. Um Okay, so so the foundation now it's lost. I like the company's lost So all those programs were lost and all of a sudden, you know, a couple weeks ago They said they published something saying, you know, oh, we're we're now we have five NGOs where we're going to start providing help And money for venezuela. Well, surprise surprise the first NGO on the list is one called venezuela engagement A foundation group and who's listed at you know, who's listed as the board members, you know The guy who's supposed to be the you know, the fake ambassador of white though in canada I mean, how corrupt can you be and how corrupt can the united states government be to promote this and to you know And to support this guy And to support this, you know, this theft of venezuelan, you know of the venezuelan people That is what that's what they're doing the same way they abuse that, you know, they abuse people In united states and you know, they abuse african-american communities abuse latino communities the same way they're trying to abuse the venezuelan As a nation and what they want whether after is them dismantling the whole, you know, venezuelan republic and Establishing a new a new colonial project in venezuela where they could take back all the resources and Carlos I wanted to ask another question. It's about about the gasoline situation in venezuela. So we've heard some people criticize in the fact that, uh, venezuela is privatizing the oil industry and The sale of gasoline In venezuela. Can you give us a little bit more context? Well, there's not it's not really a privatization in the sense that there's the I mean the there is going to Still be public um You know Public sale of or by the state company, I should say Of gasoline what what we're doing is what we're adding another A group of of uh providers that are going to be, you know, from from the private sector again, I think we have to see this as um as part of the you know measures that have to be taken because of the blockade and because of the you know The sanctions of the u.s. I mean you've seen all how you know the gasoline Production and it's been persecuted by the u.s. But you know cutting off You know the the necessary components for for gasoline refinement. So The and and also by cutting off the ships and you know, even today, you know Forest ships were were that that were having working in the oil industry in venezuela for sanction And there's you know more than 50 other ships that I mean thank you as well So so this is part of a war against us and we found that you know, this is this president found that this is a Another aspect that that could help. Uh, you know having private Enterprise bring the gasoline over to venezuela and and and be part of the suppliers I don't think we we got to see as Our privatization was such privatization the way, you know The policies that that that took place in in line america and even minnesota in the 1990s and 1980s, you know was the complete loss of the public sector the you know complete handover handover of of these Of these strategic resources and that's not what's going on here We're we're you know expanding a sector and and that's all you know, we're doing again The the purpose is within the context that we have of aggressions How can we provide more options and more possibilities for advance on people and are the these uh companies Could be subject to sanctions of the u.s. Sanctions this prior companies I I you know, I can't say Uh It's up to treasury to decide what you know, what how they they They deal with them and so forth Um, what we've seen is that you know, pretty much everybody is it's open to these legal illegal measures from the u.s So I wouldn't be surprised that they they try to sabotage. I mean they already did today With those sanctions. I mean they're trying to sabotage Uh, the oil business in general Because you know, they they know that this is if you sabotage Anything that has to do with oil production and oil exports. You're cutting off, you know, Venezuela's main Lifeline as the main source of income and it's what provides for You know what later pays for food and medicine and all the other things So, you know, it's it's a key sector of Venezuelan economy that they need to to knock down so that uh, they could create that that suffering that you know that um, they mentioned, I mean the As far back as a couple years ago, you know, you had a You know the former ambassador william brownfield I'll describe how you know He there was there was a need to attack the oil sector so you could really prolong the suffering as well And then and then that will bring you the regime change the economy. So it's part of the tactic, you know, it's part of the strategy so We we've seen a lot of the Strategy that comes from the state department and from, you know, the u.s. government fail in multiple ways and times And we know that we have a precedent that don't like to lose can should be we uh, aware should be we uh preoccupated about uh, what's going to happen in these uh Next month before us presidential elections. What is your uh perspective there? Well, well, we we're in a difficult position for the following reasons if if these are might believe if if you see that um If you see the way things are going down in the united states where you have now, you know massive riots in different country in different cities around the country at the same time you have, you know, you've You've reached over a hundred thousand uh of deaths due to kovat 19 and no real signs that you know, the that the curve is actually, uh, uh, you know, uh Uh coming down but but you know the you could actually have serious uh concerns that it might spread more than there already is And then you have other, you know, the economic problems that have that are stemming out of the you know, uh mishandling of of the kovat 19 crisis You know, you you've reached 40 million people unemployed that weren't before the crisis um Then you see that trump needs enemies and needs distraction So that he could guarantee or that he could find a way to rally his supporters in in um, you know in in in november So one other thing is is is probably what what's going on now with the protests, you know presenting yourself as the law and order uh president and and you know trying to uh Uh give this image that you know everybody all these people are our laws instead of you know Recognizing that these people have really, you know a claim to justice and then and that's what's going on So but but you know you you build those confrontations and he's trying to rally up his his base So trying to rally up those that you know that that somehow uh Want to see, you know Order established by force kind of thing. That's a home But then at the international level you see him, you know, it's spiking uh disputes Now this whole confrontation has with china It's ridiculous, you know, but but it's increasing every day You know and you know first, you know, you take it out on the on the world health organization and say oh The world health organization is helping out china. So, you know, you know, take away the funding And then you and now, you know getting into china's internal affairs by you know, uh getting into issues related with hong kong and and and and other uh aspects So you you see how you know, it's the shaping of the external Uh foe kind of thing Uh before the elections and and you have china on on the big front on a big playing field But then you also have other colors like iran And venezuela there too And so that's what I think I think is something that we we have to be a tension will be concerned because you you never know What actions? What irrational actions? Uh, the white house is willing to take in order to Uh, you know, uh, uh create a rally of support or you know, show the an image that you know, he's getting He's getting things done or he's doing something Because this this rhetoric against venezuela that you know, we're trying to flood the united states with cocaine And that's why we're a threat. They come on. I mean, this is not even serious But but but it but it's the kind of thing you use to rally support and become you know, the national hero Because oh you're protecting venezuela, you know, are you protecting the united states from from from venezuelan cocaine and come on, you know We have to be we have to be careful And I think we we have to keep our eyes open and so do you In the united states because you're the taxpayers and you're the people that are going to put the lives up if there's a You know, if there's a A war, uh, I think, you know, we we have to uh We all have to be careful And and in situation And color for what is color for what is the distraction against, you know from from the problems and legal aggression And so it's an attempt to you know, take hold of national resources. All these things come on So I think we we have to keep our eyes out and we have to keep denouncing all these attempts to You know against venezuelan uh stability because They're being used as you know election props Talking about elections. There was a moment when we thought that when bernie sanders was in the race for the democratic, uh nomination we thought that all this policy aggressive policy towards venezuela was part of this electoral strategy To get rid of uh Of bernie sanders, uh, like this new market market hit them Towards, uh, you know, this candidate. So we thought that maybe that was driving the you know, the the like making venezuela, uh Domestic electoral campaign, but uh, since he's out of the race right now, uh, can you see a difference in the and the I don't know the u.s Policy towards venezuela. Is this something that you haven't noticed any difference or What's going on there? Well, I think yeah, I I agree on that and for one for part of the time, uh, you know, the There was a the use of venezuela um as a anti socialist Well part of the anti socialist rhetoric saying, you know, uh, yeah, venezuela is uh, uh, you know Shows a failure of socialism and you needed to do that in order to um Play it off against bernie sanders. I don't think that's really gone away. I think and you know, I think um somehow it remains in the in the Discourse in the official discourse anything that's anti left anti socialism Anti progressivism, you know, it is is still there. Um, you know, as a matter of fact Because it just just now, you know, the the idea of of president trump trying to um Call or classify antifa as a As a terrorist organization Shows this because at the end of the day, you know, it's anti fascism And it's not really an organization as such as as far as i'm concerned But actually, you know movement or said ideas, uh, and it's and it's ideas against fascism And a lot of the people then, you know, support him, you know, identify with some of the ideas of fashion was something very dangerous and and and It's out there and I think, you know, uh, he used that, uh, to to, um He he uses anti left rhetoric, uh, whenever he needs to to create an an enemy And the enemy can be, you know, uh In general terms, it could be a terrorist. They could be, uh, uh drug trafficker like, you know, like, uh, the case maduro could be somebody on the left, you know, like the way the way the this administration has used these, um, this, uh labels is is is to create enemies to create enemies that would post them as the law and the law and order and the savior and, you know, the righteousness and then then the ones that the the defend, uh, us values traditional values against this strange other people And in the strange other people and this criminal other people, you know, they throw everybody in the same sack And they throw, you know, they throw the protesters and they throw, uh, president maduro It means is it's the idea of creating an enemy Uh, what no what that is exactly that's what they need now. So I think I think he's gonna he needs to create that enemy Um, now, you know, you see you see he's doing it, uh in you know, when you have a, um You have an internal situation where you have, uh, you know, the the greatest humanitarian crisis in the story in The last hundred years was, you know, over a hundred thousand deaths from COVID-19 You have over 40 million people unemployed. You have, uh, you know, all these all these problems, uh, that he's facing Uh, he needs to put you know, into An external enemy So you see the way he's been, you know, launching his tax against china now, for example, you know Now the he, you know before he was almost near a trade agreement now Now that's not even that's not a question and all of a sudden, you know, you're playing china for the For the pandemic and then you get out of the world health organization and you know All this attack against china and now the chinese communist party, you know So they bring back that communism monster again The chinese communist party this the chinese communist party this and now all of a sudden, you know, they're they're getting into china's internal affairs by, you know messing with uh With the issues going on in hong kong and and you know So he finds outside enemies in china and but also in, you know, in ron Like he did at the beginning of the year. I mean, it wasn't it wasn't that long ago and you know, the attack against Uh, so general solimani and and you know the things that are happening against iran and now he's doing against venezuela You know, uh, uh as well, you know So I think and and the thing is that venezuela is is something that that gets him votes in florida And when he has well, you know, when you reach a point that because of the pandemic You have people over 65 percent not agreeing with the way What trump has handled it and and you know the party from his support base Then he's trying to find another way to rally up support and he thinks that with you know The stronger he gets against venezuela the more support he's going to get from the you know anti-cuban anti-venezuelan political base he has so I think You know, I think that the the venezuela which is still going to be part of the race I think this still going to be part of the rhetoric, you know the anti Trump rhetoric that he's going to use is he is that external enemy that's always there, you know And so and he has many faces it could either be the face of a terrorist or the face of a drug trafficker Or the face of a communist is is that boogeyman? Just to scare people into voting for trump and that's you know, that's the whole point Do you think this because at first, uh, you know, uh, it was off the table that Maduro could be part of new elections, etc We saw a little abram say that Even even admit that the fear was that madura could win the election So he couldn't be part of them. So we we saw that right but right now with this transitional new proposal Which they're Like basically saying that my little could participate in the elections. Uh, can you see this like How can you interpret interpret this? I mean, how do you? Is it because it's not, uh, too much as a pressure to have, uh, florida What's what's your What's your I think I think it's just a I mean, I think it's just an issue. They don't know how to just I'll explain how to just finally just let it go. So, I mean, basically what but they're not really, uh, I mean Yes, you know, the abrams has said well, you know, technically he could run But then, you know, you see pompeo saying, you know, maduro will never be president again You know kind of think so, you know, they really have no interest in that happening And and I think, you know, this is part of the the, you know, the mixed messages for a little bit of the mess between, uh, u.s. Uh agencies, uh, you know, the not not getting the whole story together Uh, you know, even within the same department, um, I am convinced that they don't want that There's no room in their plans for president maduro to run and and to try to be, uh Uh, uh president again within that framework. I mean, they they said very clearly that they want him out and again And it's easy to understand because they they they feel in in their in their reading of venezuelan reality They feel that by taking him away you You know, just mantle The unity chavismo and they want to they want to see that, you know, they want to do the same way that They saw it done in other places in in, um In land america before I think, you know, um, this is this is uh, this is a farce. I mean another thing we should waste time Uh thinking that there's anything going to come out of of that transition plan I think that uh, that that's what we need to do is call it out for what it is, you know It's it's uh, it's an anti maduro. It's a capitalization Sort of plan and then when and then you have to add it up to the other policies and you You know see the bigger picture you have an indictment against him You have a military operation against him. You have this, you know, this transition where he needs to go This is the destruction of chavismo and if you have any doubts about this if you have any doubts Just look at the contract that was signed between one way though and the mercenaries that try to Uh invade venezuela where there's you know, there are clauses and there you know, there's, uh, um There's room within that that that contract For the persecution of of chavismo of presi maludo and other high officials. I mean the idea here Um, uh was was basically to reenact what you know, the jacada method, you know and come out and then destroy All the what's what's left in in in venezuela There's there's a new person in the picture apparently somebody that has ties with the With the venezuelan government or something like they're trying The media or uh the state department. They're trying to tie the a relation between This silver cup for a guy with the venezuelan government Do you know, uh, can you explain a little bit more about this? because uh, one and you know, one of the crazy ideas was uh, they they they're trying in a way to try to you know get rid of by those Participation on his fault. There's you know, trying to cover them up basically the operation, you know, they they're coming up with these things to go you know, uh The old style knew about the operation. So, you know, they've infiltrated it or or you know, now they're trying You know some some obscure business man and say who who by the way is not, you know, was not Uh A chavista was not from other group was actually he he has a history He's been investigated before for precisely anti government actions, you know, like uh, subversive actions So but this and then they're trying to find some time to confuse people inside And especially to confuse international community. What they needed to do is is uh, you know, somehow Convinced the international community that why though had nothing to do with this that this was actually a plot, you know by Maduro himself and Because they need, you know, they they made them They made these people, you know, support a man who, you know, in a year has has has no results His popularity has, you know, gone down even further He has no leadership And actually he's driving and actually the only thing he's able to achieve Is the most number of scandals of, you know, corruption scandals without being government You know, he must that must be a record that that that that he has So so, you know, so they're trying to somehow, you know, wash his face and and and you know, and and and show that It is and blame somehow blame this back to to Maduro with this But but you know, I again, this is not uh, this is not gonna work I think the venison of people know Understand what's what's going on and I think a lot of people outside as well despite that, you know, the loads of Misinformation, I think people can understand Because they've seen this in history before then, you know, what what they're after is control of Minnesota resources and they know who's on what side So, uh, Carlos, I wanted to ask you another question about, uh, the situation of the pandemic in Venezuela recently there was, uh A report, uh about, uh, it says the says the venezuela unofficial data is absurd Referring to the number of cases and death in venezuela. It's a report by human rights watch and John Hopkins. What can you say about this? Well, first of all, human rights watch has always had an agenda against venezuela. So, I mean, I I of the top I Have serious doubts about anything that's written by them You know, they there's a revolving door between human rights watch and the state department and a lot of people that have You know have have worked there have have been part of the policy against venezuela for many years and and you know on the one side They they you know, uh, try to portray this as a human rights violator, but on the other side when they are real, uh, rights violated by opposition Groups and all these things, you know They they they are blind to that so I I don't trust, uh, of the top, you know What would they say but then but but you know, you don't have to take my word for it And then there's a very simple thing, you know, uh They if we had a crisis if we had a real COVID-19 Crisis the size of the one Peru, Ecuador, brazil There's no way you could hide it because you know, it's not something you could you could, uh Cover up because you have a lot of people you'll have a lot of people dying a lot of people getting Sick and and and there's a There's definitely a strain on the health system that that is visible So, you know, you wouldn't be able to to to to hide this if it was otherwise But I think I think that brings us to something else though Um, why is it so hard for people to understand that, you know, after years of saying or Or listening to the fact that you know the or to the narrative to reports That venezuela's health system is completely collapsed How isn't that venezuela's coping so well with COVID-19 is from the people understand So that's because what we've been seeing in the first place Is that yes, we've had problems in our health system, but it never came to a collapse And it's one of the things that we've you know, we've defended for for many years You know, they were portraying this as a completely lost, you know as a completely lost kind of Health care system and we said no, you know, like we were saying, you know, that's not true This is being exaggerated. This is taking out of context So but but the people that have read all these reports from your right watch and from other people that have all these years You know in their heads. There's a system that that that was destroyed Actually, we have a very strong system that we you know, that we built thanks to the humans You know with the cooperation with Cuba that we were able to you know, build the local The local community doctors for preventive medicine and we have a strong infrastructure of You know centers that people can go to at least for for the beginning of treatments or for preventive medicine So this is this important that there's something You know this the system having struggling against the sanctions against all these limitations against you know, the the the violence that you know during the during the the protests in 2014 2017 Were allowed these places were attacked, but it's been resisting and it's still there and and you know And it gets the it gets the attention Of the of the government. That's why he hasn't he hasn't really collapsed Is this middle? Now you took the measures like really uh early And the like you had the experience of another country So you took the the effective measures, right? Of course, you have a combination I mean you have a system that didn't didn't completely collapse the way it was being portrayed Despite all the suffering that has undergone And then you have measures that we're taking consciousness that you know of what was coming of what was coming We saw what happened in China and then we saw what happened in europe And then we saw and then we started, you know Thinking well, how do we prevent this to criminal medicine? We started taking the first measures the quarantine was establishing myself before we detected our first case So they did and and now and there's tracing and there's I saw them You know the last look we we've seen a spike in the last couple days of numbers But those numbers are coming from people that are returning to Minnesota That is probably the only country in the world right now where people are returning to the country in order to You know to be safe from COVID-19 And you know and then we've had thousands of people and you know in in in throughout You know south america trying to come back and we've been able to receive some of them and and and a lot of people have you know They've come back have been Have had the seeds or carriers So what we you know, we're we're doing quarantines and we're doing the treatment and we're treating them here You know once they they arrive back home But and and it's under control, but you know the number of of you know national Conceding is very low So we're working on that And and and again, you know, it's it's it's one of the few countries that has seen this This influx of people wanting to be here to deal with it with the You know to to get better here Hello, this is our quarantine Okay, so we're almost done here, but I just wanted to ask you a last question right now So, uh, it's about the dialogue. We know that right now there is a national table for national dialogue in venezuela that has two oppositions So it's the opposition on moderate opposition whereas claude fermín, which is like the more most famous person in venezuela And there is the other position with the radical position the one that is Guaidó is a leader of this opposition and where they're not there's not really an interest in in Negotiating anything else than maduro getting out of office, right like a change of government. So Why if this opposition Moderate opposition is the majority of venezuelans It's in the I mean we can see the poll like that the majority of venezuelans do want A negotiation do want a peaceful Dialogue and they want to resolve things like this. They don't want Tensions they are not they don't want an invasion. So why are why are you Doing this negotiations with that radical opposition Why are they on the table? You know, I see the they are definitely a part of society used to being with obviously and uh, and you know, and they they were part of You know the group that was elected to the national assembly and They became You know, there was a rotation of different parties until you know, they this this was the time that they you know It corresponded for them to to have the leadership and then when that's when the the strongest Disruptive type of uh Engagement began, you know when when they started being very extreme and in closing down uh to dialogue We we're trying to you know We're trying to dialogue with every sector society because that that's our responsibility as a government That's that president maduro. You know, he he as president has to dialogue with all sectors of society The problem is that that this particular sector is the one that is most influenced by the united states and is the one that That is not has not been allowed Um to to sit down on the table and to come to some agreement and it's it's because they're not independent it's because they depend on you know the the The criteria and you know the influence and you know all the support they get from united states And they're the ones disrupting the the process That's what we say that you know if if the united states, you know, and they offer the plan, you know a few weeks ago, you know Between and between indictment offering, you know 15 million dollars for president maduro's head and then and offering a measure operation that this had to happen, you know consider a considerate plan for transition where again, you know, it was the same thing Mother world out, you know because and and politically you can understand this because politically they they see That maduro is a figure that you know that uh, who's leadership? uh Unites uh Chevy is more as a political force. So of course they're after him Of course, you know because they they want to break down the leadership so they could you know, they could find ways of Of pulling the movement um Apart but but that's that's that's something that you see when you're looking for a minute from outside But not from from inside and and you know You don't see that when when the attacks are stronger, you know People rally up together and to defend the the process because this isn't the project of one man It's the project of a whole population We have to dialogue with them because they're part of society and we are offering, you know to dialogue But it's their position has been hard, you know hard line And there's their position that has been guided by the United States as to not allow Uh dialogue to go on that's why when we said it's not president maduro You know, like they say who has to step us and step aside and and for venezuela to move forward Is the united states that has to step aside So that we can dialogue so that they can sit down at the table They can you know, they can go to elections. They can get elected again if they win and so forth And then we can move forward So they're you know, they're the ones being uh, uh black and it's united states is pushing, you know to black them as uh As a negotiating partner. Thank you so much. God bless for your time. Uh, it was a pleasure having you here I wish I had more time to ask more questions But anyways, so thank you. I'll take me back and I'll come back and we will do it again Thank you so much. Thank you all for Watching uh an episode of what the f is going on online in america every once they add new Bye Thank you