 This 10th year of Daily Tech News show is made possible by you, thanks to every single one of you listening, including Larry Bailey, Michelle Serju, and Ms. Music Teacher. Coming up on DTNS, a way to use existing internet satellites to replace GPS. Amazon wants to sell you shirts from inside VR. And what the heck is spatial audio anyway? Thank goodness Patrick Norton is here to explain. This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, May the 9th, 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Rebit, I'm Sarah Lane. At the edge of the 314, I'm Patrick Norton. And I'm the show's producer, Roger Chang. If you go far over the edge of the 314, you either get to 618 on one side. What's on the other side though? I don't remember. I'll have to look that up. Yeah, yeah, I don't remember. The abyss. It's probably an abyss, yeah. All right, folks, that's enough about area codes. Let's start with the Quick Hits. Shout out to 707. Apple announced it will bring its Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro apps to iPad OS on May 23rd. Final Cut will require an M1 processor, and Logic will require an A12 bionic or higher, so that'll run on any iPad Apple that currently sells new. Both apps will be available as a subscription. $4.99 per month or $50 per year for each. We'll talk about this a little bit more on the extended show, Good Day Internet, a little bit later. Because who doesn't love a subscription? Microsoft expanded preview access to Microsoft 365 Co-Pilot Assistant. That's the one based on OpenAI's GPT-4 model that helps you do a little coding. They're going from 20 to 600 global customers. Microsoft also rolled out a new semantic index for Co-Pilot, which creates a map of user and company data to improve your search and your responses. Almost everybody who wants a Nintendo Switch appears to already have one. At least that was what the number showed. Nintendo reported that Switch sales fell 22% in its fiscal year to 17.97 million units, although that's in line with its forecast of 18 million. The company also said it didn't see typical growth in sales around the holiday quarter, and also that supply change shortages impacted Switch production until the end of the summer in 2022. And Switch sales are expected to continue to decline. Nintendo expects to sell 15 million Switches this fiscal year. Yeah, so time for a new Nintendo model, maybe? Meta announced an open-source AI research model called ImageBind that combines multiple streams of data. So it's multimodal, text, audio, visual data, temperature, and movement readings. That's an interesting one. All into a single index, which it calls an embedding space. So it's kind of like Dolly or Stable Diffusion or Mid Journey, which all rely on systems that link together text and images during the training stage, and then looks for patterns. Except Meta says ImageBind is the first to use six types of data in a single embedding space. ImageBind comes with an attribution non-commercial share like 4.0 International Creative Commons license. The Financial Times reports that Spotify took down roughly 7% of tracks uploaded by the AI music startup Boomi, affecting tens of thousands of songs. Spotify says that the number of streams was being artificially boosted on these tracks. Didn't say that the action was related to being generated by AI, though. Didn't say it wasn't, but they else. Didn't say it was. So you're saying there's a chance. Leaving that can of worms closed. Amazon will bring the retail to you. Tell us about it, Sarah. All right, so Tuesday Amazon launched Amazon Anywhere, a service that lets developers integrate Amazon shopping into virtual worlds and interactive environments. So basically, you buy physical goods from within an AR or VR or video game experience. The first example of this is a Neantics new AR game called Peridot, not to be confused with the semi-precious gem, Peridot, for iOS and Android. Players who link their Amazon account can buy shirts, pop sockets, and pillows, all with artwork of the creatures from the game. They can also see product details. They can get shipping options and check out purchases, all without leaving the game and the experience. Amazon handles fulfillment and shipping going from there. So this is kind of a new in-game purchase experience, at least as far as I can think of. Nothing like this yet, at least not with Amazon. What do you think, Patrick? Do you love it? I have tremendous difficulties seeing pop socket and not thinking about things that are going directly to landfills and entirely too short a period of time, which I realize is a downer. Well, you could say that about any sort of popular... Okay, but let's say it was a biodegradable pop socket, or better yet, something you want. What do you think of the idea of buying something inside a VR? It's such a... I don't know. I look at this and I think, okay, so shopping built into virtual worlds with the goggles, and I'm going to buy stuff. What was the catalog? I can't think of the name, the one where they would show you the pictures and tell you the story. When I was surfing off the coast of Greece... Jay Peterman? Was that the Jay Peterman? That's the one. It's like the Jay Peterman catalog, but weirder, right? Because it's going to be virtual items that are going to bear little to no result. And I have a couple pieces of clothing I love from the Peterman catalog, but I don't know. Part of me is like, this is exciting. All I need to do is get something that actually looks like me to try clothes on, or I don't know. I remember, I mean, you guys remember when people said the internet was going to change everything? Like buying dog food was going to be a radically new experience because it was interneted and then you basically like click two times and dog food showed up at your house. I'm trying to get excited about this, but it's, you know, Amazon, Amazon, another platform. It seems to me the internet did change everything, and I do get excited that I can order dog food so easily. I mean, I don't know. Some people, I will back away from that question because it's a two hour drag on debate about the internet versus Sarah, you were going to say, well, so I was going to say, okay, so you made play Neantics new air game paradox. You might love some of the stuff that's within the game. You might say, you know, I want yes, this t-shirt for myself. Great. Maybe you don't. But I was just less than two weeks ago that we mentioned on the show that Amazon had also partnered with Pinterest. So it's like looking at a Pinterest board, something that is available on Amazon, you click it, you go right to the Amazon page and you go ahead and buy. It sounds to me like Amazon is saying, all right, well, everybody knows what they can get if they go to amazon.com or variety of apps. But what about integrating things that you might eventually buy on Amazon or you might not eventually buy at all because you don't know it's on Amazon and let's incorporate ourselves into these fun experiences and see what we get. No, that's a really good point. The strategy of Amazon seems to increasingly be we're getting about as many people as we can to amazon.com. Let's figure out how to be where they are if we're going to pick up new customers. And so the Pinterest thing is a great example of that. This is a great example of it. And this is only as good as it is welcome. If you're playing a game and this is being pushed in front of you, you're like, no, I don't want to buy your stupid t-shirt. It's going to be annoying. But I can imagine back when I was playing Warcraft a lot, if this there was something like this in the game that's like, hey, would you like a figure print of Bob X? I'd be excited to be like, oh, yeah, no, let me let me grab that while I'm thinking about it. And another swag and stuff. If it's done right, I think it could be very welcome because a lot of times people like, you know, take my money. I want the stuff for the thing I love. Maybe it's as the father of an 11 year old that has a really intense relationship to Minecraft. The last thing I want is Amazon and they're giving him opportunities to buy, you know, t-shirts and stuff. On the flip side, you know, when you describe it like that, it does sound super compelling. I'm a super man. I want something super cool from my favorite game. But I also just, you know, it's nice that they're doing this. But it seems like there's a lot of opportunities they could have in places outside of the, I just feel like there's just not a huge VR audience. And there's a whole lot of other places they can integrate this in. Well, and this is a mobile game is their first example, I think, which is emblematic of that. VR is sort of like, hey, and also down the road, right? I should be thinking Pokemon Go and it's, yeah. This is their trial before they move to VR. Also remember, I don't know, let's say like 10 years ago at CES, all the companies we're talking about, here's how we're going to add a layer on top of your favorite show. So if you see your favorite actress pouring milk from this particular brand, you can go at, yeah, milk is a dumb example, but like you can. Clothing, it was a good one. Clothing, yeah, or, you know, a car or whatever, even to like learn more about it. Yeah, I don't know. It would launch the purchasing app and pause the program. Sure, yeah. And I mean, that is not an immersive experience. So I wonder if the AR experience will fare better because even though I understand that advertisers would love to have something beyond product placement that you might see with your naked eye within a show, something like this might actually make more sense. Yeah, if you're like on the train and you're looking at that ad for the, and you're like, man, I really like that shirt and the augmented reality is like, hey, you can buy it right now. Like that's, that could be a compelling situation for salespeople and even for some customers. Yeah. Who gets the 30% from Apple or Amazon? Amazon say, what's that 30% there? That's why they're doing this. That's how you win. I want to give a thanks to KV87 on our subreddit for submitting this press release from the Ohio State University about an algorithm that you can use the signals from multiple low Earth orbit satellites to determine location. So basically it's GPS, but without needing dedicated GPS satellites. The paper about the research was presented at the IEEE ION position location and navigation symposium in Monterey, California. Tom, what, yeah, what, what was going on there? This reminds me of how we were talking earlier this year about using Wi-Fi signals to track people to do motion detection. This is doing it in the world to figure out where you are. So the scientists monitored signals from eight satellites across Starlink, OneWeb, Orbcom and Iridium. So if you're like, wait, I thought I've heard of them doing this before. Others have done it, including folks at the Ohio State University, but they've done it with one type of satellite like Starlink. This was across multiple. So you can use different kinds of signals. They would analyze changes in the signal frequency and the Doppler effect. So that thing that tells you whether a signal is moving away or closer. And then they trained a tracking algorithm and developed a beacon estimation framework. So without having to know what was in the signals, they weren't eavesdropping on what was in the data signals. They were just testing the frequency, testing the Doppler. The algorithm could estimate where the satellites were and then determine where the receiver was. And they were able to locate a stationary receiver in three dimensions within 5.8 meters. Wow. I mean, 5.8 meters is not bad for just, you know, doing some navigation. Like it's not precision stuff, but good enough for customer use. And big advantage to this, right, is you don't need to set it up. There's more of these satellites going up every day to create these situations. You're not interfering with them in any way. You're not violating data privacy. You're just using the fact that they're bouncing off your machine and this is less blockable and stronger and more comprehensively in coverage than GPS. Because it can go through buildings. It's a wild concept. Now we can finally know exactly where you go if you go to one of the malls. Yeah, you could use GPS to find the FYE or the Forever 21 or whatever it is you're looking for in the mall. Thank goodness then. Patrick, I know this reminded you of Loran. Yeah, I was laughing because I was like, it's like the return of the revenge of Loran, which is a navigational tool pretty much up until GPS started getting more common, more affordable back in the 90s. But it had this very simple, very similar idea. I'm a navigation geek and it's always fascinating to figure out better ways to locate yourself on the surface of the planet. I get excited. But yeah, it is really similar. And when I had that thought and typed in, it's also interesting that there's actually any number of organizations working to bring a next generation version of Loran back to navigational systems as an alternative to GPS. So it's something go horrendously wrong with the GPS system or a war breakout and superpowers shut down their satellite access jamming. If I'm understanding this correctly, really, if this is something that we could all take advantage of, well, many people could take advantage of depending on where you are in the world. It's really just a matter of, I don't know, a cool app being able to either let you know or run in the background to make sure that you're connected to something without you needing to think that much harder about it. I'm assuming the receiver could be pretty easy. I wonder if it even could work off of typical modems data from receiving a 5G signal because most of these are 5G signals that are coming out of Starlink. And yeah, then you just need the algorithm running, which if it can run on device, you're golden. Askelly brings up a really good question. It requires up-to-date location information, but that was the genius as I understood it, is that they were using beacon estimation to figure out where the satellites were because unlike GPS, these are flying around the air. They're not necessarily meant to stay in position. So the algorithm was able to figure out where the satellite is to therefore figure out the location if I'm getting that right, which is kind of the key with this. Two One Web, four Starlink, one Iridium, next and one Orbcom were used in the study. So they didn't even have to be from the same satellite system. And like I said, more of these going up all the time, they're going all around the world. So this will be an interesting one to see if it turns into an actual usable product, but I kind of hope it does. If you've got thoughts on this, folks, join the conversation in our Discord. You can join that by linking your Patreon account. Just become a patron at patreon.com slash D T N S. Yesterday, I was looking around on YouTube and I saw a music video I liked that had been re-uploaded. So it was the same music video, but with spatial audio. Pretty much every new pair of headphones that you look at these days, Sony's new MDR MV1s, Realme's Air 5 Pro earbuds, promise incredible spatial audio. So I get it. It's modern surround sound. It's gonna put the audio in space around me. But haven't we had that since the mid 20th century? Patrick Norton is here to help us understand Patrick. Let's start out with what is spatial audio? Okay, so I'll say this, the stated goal of spatial audio is to be in the room with the music, to envelop you in the music, to be like you are at a show or in the room with the band being created or you're at the event with the concert going on around you. It's a really nice speaker engineer. I got to meet him once. Siegfried Linkwitz. He did a whole paper called The Magic and Two-Channel Sound Reproduction, what we call the Phantom Center Channel. You have a left speaker and a right speaker and it seems like the singer is dead center in front of you. That's the Phantom Center. Wikipedia calls it a psychoacoustic phenomenon when the same sound arrives at both ears at the same time with the same intensity. It appears to originate from a point in the center of the two speakers. So as we start learning about how people hear, it's really cool. This idea, it takes advantage of humans being binaural. We have two ears and the time difference between the sound hitting your left ear and your right ear, your inner ear, the pin eye, some frequency stuff goes in there. They allow your brain to realize there's a panther or something up in the trees above me and to my right. To localize sound, rage, elevation, azimuth, I feel like I'm talking to like Roger talking about it, some sort of targeting system for rockets. If you want to nerd out really hard on this, start with a Wikipedia entry on head-related transfer functions because it's kind of fascinating. It's us hearing and locating sounds in spaces is a really complicated thing. So Atmos takes psychoacoustics and tricking your ears to the next level, way beyond stereo speakers. There's also Sony 360 Reality Audio and DTSX, but Atmos is really the biggest name in the game. Atmos has been around since 2012 and it creates really immersive audio effects in theaters. Part of that is additional speakers above the listener that are firing down, but the really big deal about spatial audio or, you know, I should say not spatial audio, but in this case, Dolby Atmos is that it's based on sound objects. So instead of a train going from the left to the center, to the right speaker as it crosses the screen in front of you, they could put you under a bridge and have the train go over you at an angle. The audio engineer, you know, creates the train sound object and uses an app to move it around the room that a lot of math happens. And you sit in the theater and you hear the train moving above and around you as if you're, say, hiding under a bridge, right? The meteor shower and the opening gravity you've ever seen in that movie, netback, you know, it's all around you and they're moving back and forth and it's utterly terrifying. It's really slick. So is sitting in a concert hall or for some artists crafting songs around these same kind of sound objects. I want the ride symbol to float around the listener's head or the bass drop to change locations on every third bar of music. There's all sorts of things this opens up with how you play around with music. Well, you hear all the time about new gadgets, especially high-end gadgets being, you know, Dolby Atmos supported. And I think a lot of people go, oh, that's good. But it depends on what you're looking to experience, right? Oh my goodness. So a thousand years ago when I still had hair and lived in New York City, one of the first products I tested was a 3D sound spacializer. And they're like, it's some music. It's like you're in the music. And I'm like, eh, it just makes the music seem kind of wider. And they're like, no, no, no, it's 3D. I'm like, no, it's really not. You know, spatial audio experiments or products or effects, they've been around for at least a couple of decades, right? Just by my own personal use and it certainly predates me. The thing is like the ease of streaming audio and Apple's dumping a lot of time and treasure into the launch of spatial audio or bringing Dolby Atmos to Apple Music has made it a much bigger deal. For example, Thailand, Amazon music, we're both doing spatial audio before Apple. No, you weren't aware? Nobody? Anybody? Yeah. So, yeah, it's also because Apple, right, is a much bigger company, not that Amazon, but people still don't realize Amazon music exists. And I'm not even going to go down that particular rabbit hole. But blatant foreshadowing here, spatial audio is very, very different if you're using headphones versus using surround sound speakers or a sound bar. One of them is much more impressive than the other. So how's that different from Atmos then? So, you know, so when you look, I found it really frustrating, right? Because Dolby Atmos music, you go to the web page, it's music like never before. There's a lot of breathy language around this stuff. So there's a Marvin Gaye demo. What's going on is a song, Dolby Music, or excuse me Dolby.com slash music. So you play the stereo version, right? And it's they have this little sort of bouncy music graphic and the little bit. It's very small and kind of contained. And then the Atmos version kicks in. You know, there's music and there's music and Dolby Atmos. Is it more spatial? A little bit. What it really is in this particular case is a completely different mix. It isn't thinned out. The low end isn't, you know, turned down. You can actually hear James. It goes from like, I can't hear James Jamerson playing bass on one of the most important songs in modern music to, oh, yeah, there's James doing his thing. Oh, and I can finally hear the congas. I can hear the whole track. That's not really spatial audio. That's kind of a sad trick for Dolby. At its best, you can create an environment where you actually feel like you're standing in the middle of the band or like I was saying before, you're in a concert hall feeling all of these, you know, instruments in the concert hall moving around you. You know, Sony 360 reality audio is so immersive. It's real. It plays the same type of games in their demo, albeit with a custom track. It's, you know, this kind of digital track they created with even more visual cues to space in the video. So they're trying to... I'm going to notice this on my speakers, though, or on my headphones. Yeah, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm wearing nice Sony monitor headphones now. You know, these, these, they're great for me. I don't know how music could sound better. You know, it is, do you have to get a bunch of new devices to... Well, I think the, first of all, the headphones are probably the least part of it. Like if you have a good set of quality headphones, if they've done a good job with this spatial audio mix, they're going to do the best job with it. I was funny because I started playing Apple music back and forth with Spotify, which is not spatial audio. You know, Taylor Swift, Bob Marley's Could You Be Loved, Aha Take On Me, Snoop Dogg's Gin and Juice really stood out. The Atmos version sounded like they turned down the bass and Snoop's Vogel sounded recessed, which is the exact opposite of what I want from a Snoop Dogg track. 100%. Yeah. Right. It was really weird. Like Miley Cyrus' lyrics and flowers in the stereo version, it was a very, you know, intimate kind of thing. And again, it sounded more spaced out, sure. But it also sounded like the vocals were recessed and I had lost the sense of intimacy in the track. It's kind of peculiar, right? Because there's also a process. You have to listen to Dolby Atmos on your iPhone or your iPad, you know, you have to go into settings and tap music and choose automatic, always on or off for Dolby Atmos. And then, you know, you don't need necessarily special headphones to do this. I will say it's going to sound a lot better on sort of external speakers, whether it's a surround sound system or some type of like a home pod, right? It uses five tweeters and a four inch woofer. So it's blasting sounds in all directions around you. The Sonos' new Era 300 is a big bet on spatial audio. And again, left center, right channels, and then up firing tweeters along with a pair of woofers, the much more affordable Amazon Echo Studio. It's got a front facing 30 millimeter tweeters, three two inch mids and a 5.3 inch woofer. So I think for a lot of people it's going to be much more impressive in a home theater or out of a dedicated speaker like that than it will be out of a set of headphones. Headphones, you can tweak a mix so it sounds bigger or wider or not so much in your head on headphones. But generally speaking, if there's a driver here and a driver there, one for your left and right ears, they really aren't going to put sound above you or below you or behind you. So, you know, if you get external hardware that takes advantage of the room with the space around you, I think it gets much more interesting. Well, all the spatial audio talk has made me hungry. Tom, you might like this next story then. US burger joint Wendy's, if you're not familiar with Wendy's home of the square burger patty, announced that starting in June, it will automate its drive through service, at least at one location at one of its restaurants in Columbus, Ohio. It's very near its headquarters. Using a chatbot powered by Google that's trained to understand what people say when they order. Wendy says the goal is to make ordering easier and faster and also that it's been working with Google in areas like data analytics and machine learning and cloud tools since back in 2021. Does anybody have any issues? We're going through the drive through and talking to a chatbot. If the chatbot is well trained on what you might want. If you don't know it's a chatbot, you won't have an issue, which is I think why none of these stories tell you which Wendy's in Columbus it is because they don't want you to know. They want to see if this is going to pass off. That's right. Because it's got very sophisticated listening, large language model listening. It can hear over your kids screaming in the music. It's supposed to be able to tell when you go like, give me a milkshake. Wait, no, I actually don't want a milkshake. I want to dye a Coke. It's supposed to be able to keep track of that stuff. It knows when you say milkshake, you mean frosty. They say it'll work. It'll sound like a person and you'll never know it's a chatbot. Very curious how good this thing can be. These language models are good enough that it's plausible at least. I always laugh because I think everybody's had that experience where there was a busted speaker or a busted microphone at a drive through. Presumably, they're going to do some pretty serious upgrades to the microphones. Certainly the speaker better work. When you think about what's going on at a lot of drive throughs, I don't know how it is where you guys are right now, but around here, there's one particular restaurant chain. They make fried chicken. They have biscuits I love. I've given up on them within a 25-mile circle of St. Louis because they don't hire enough people. They can't retain people. You can't get in and out less than two or three days. If putting chat GPT in there means they can have two people actually paying attention to the cooking, I would be curious to see if it works. That is a good point. They did make a point of saying, we're not replacing people with this. What we're doing is taking the people who would normally operate this and putting them on cooking your food and delivering the food to you at the window. I'll be curious. They want to speed up. Chatbots on typing, which is, I think, much simpler than listening to spoken words, are all over the map. It ranges from, wow, this is pretty impressive. What's called Turing to, no, I don't want a purple delete expletive. I want a, it's amazing when they go wrong. Those are trained on everything. This has the advantage of being only trained. You're not going to be able to talk to it about global thermonuclear war. It's just Wendy's stuff. What is the square root of? That's where I think these large language models are shining when you limit what they need to do. This is a very nicely limited set. I can't remember the last time I went through a drive-thru. I don't know. It wasn't that long ago. I probably wanted some chicken McNuggets, but I've always gotten the impression where sometimes you do get somebody across the speaker where you're like, you know, I think they're having a kind of fun time handling the drive-thru section of this restaurant right now. More often, you kind of go, they're busy. They're just trying to take the order, but they're at work. The large language model vary between a happy drive-thru and bored drive-thru worker. Yeah, depending on, you know, maybe I come in and say, I want the board. But yeah, it's like if the employees who are working there anyway can be, you know, taken off the stuff that they don't really like doing, for example, interacting with a customer over speaker, still got to see somebody over at the counter, you know, the window when you actually drive up. Although who knows what that's going to look like in another few years. But yeah, this would not bother me. If I knew, oh, okay, I'm talking to AI right now, wouldn't bother me. As long as I got my order. Yeah, that's all I care about too. All right, let's check out the mailbag. Let's do it. This one comes in from Josh Grisdale, who wrote in with his experience of getting attention from the media. Josh runs a site on accessibility in Japan and in advance of the Olympics and Paralympics, after his first interview, he said he was flooded with interview requests from other outlets who saw the first one. Josh wrote, as someone who feels they need that feels they have a message about an issue, you have a hard time saying no. I felt the message was more important than myself. And if someone is interested in listening and passing it on to a larger audience, I need to say yes. Maybe if I say no, I'll have passed on the opportunity to make life easier for a future traveler with a disability. Now you might say, well, is this referencing something that we talked about recently? Yeah, actually Josh is wondering if father of AI, Jeffrey Hinton, who has since said he's concerned about the future of the technology is showing up in the news so much for the same reason. As Josh puts it, it's a topic that he is an expert in and he has an opinion on and feels it's something bigger than him. So it needs to be said even when he's tired of all those interviews. Yeah, that makes sense. That's a good possibility of why he's taking so many of these interviews is that same feeling of, I feel it's important to get the word out there. Maybe it is altruistic like that. Also regarding the imager apocalypse, Sean from New Zealand wrote in, rest in peace to my imager gift of Tom slowly turning his head towards the camera, imitating stock footage of a wolf. I asked him, I was like, you know, if it's active on imager, they won't get rid of it. Do you have the link? And that's when he's like, yeah, I can't find the link anywhere. So if anyone has the imager link of me slowly turning my head toward the camera like a wolf, please let me and Sean know so we can keep that from being deleted. Thank you in advance. Also, thanks to Patrick Norton for being with us talking about spatial audio and all the things. Let folks know where they can keep up with all that you do. Well, for the immediate future, I'm still at Patrick Norton on the twitters. And of course, I am at avxcel.com, search for A-V-E-X-C-E-L on your favorite pod catcher. If you want to hear Robert Herron and I talk about home theater and audio gear and content and stuff. I know everybody does. So do check them out there. Also, thanks for our brand new boss, misplaced geek. Just started packing us on Patreon. Might I suggest you are not misplaced at all, misplaced geek. You're in the exact right place. You are. You are no longer misplaced. That's right. Yeah. Thank you, misplaced geek. You know, if you're like, man, I wish I could be like, misplaced geek, but money's a little tight right now. Did you know you can now join our Patreon for free? This is brand new as of today. Just scroll down, pass the paid options at patreon.com slash dtns. Find the little box that says free and you'll get monthly updates. You'll get Roger's column and you'll get the Friday extended show, a good day internet. That's patreon.com slash dtns. Those of you who are full patrons, stick around for the extended show, good day internet. We're going to talk a little more about logic and final cut coming to iPad, particularly the fact that is a subscription from Apple. But just a reminder, if you're not listening or watching live, we do the show live and you can catch it live Monday through Friday at 4pm Eastern 20 hundred UTC and you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live. We are back tomorrow. Gab and about Google IO would none other than Shannon Morris. Don't miss it. 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