 Welcome back to Y2 for 4 channel and at Brian Sanko 101 on the hashtag Why In The Morning. We are about to delve into a conversation about tivets and academic routes. Okay and definitely recently we've seen the Kenya National Examination Council led by rather the whole docket led by Ezekiel Machogo who is the cabinet secretary. They released the Kenya Secondary of Education examination results but they've not yet rolled out the final list and also the directive on also when are students enrolling but I believe they're going to enroll towards April-May but they also said they'll communicate and the body in charge now is the Kenya Universities and Colleges Central Placement Service that's now in charge of DUNT and they issued out that starting May 17th last year to June 2023. They pointed out that all the 2023 candidates and will definitely get to see the universities that they'll be placed into and also for those that will not maybe have met the minimum grade of entry they'll have an option of joining tivets and I love the fact that on the website of CUSP they've given an outline of how to join so shortly you can visit their CUSP website www.cusps.ac.ke and click on students portal. On the portal you can click login and then just get to fill in your details this will definitely be happening a lot in May or April-May and then also they'll be also filling out a space where students that will be eligible for government scholarships as well all those details will be communicated on CUSP's website Kenya Universities and Colleges Central Placement Service it's going to be mentioned a lot come April-May okay but now we're going to double into conversation about academic alternative routes and I'm being joined live by Brian Kipchumba he's a youth leader at Elgeo Maroket County and also a president student at KTTC Kevin Emampus he's a tivet students association national academic secretary good morning Karibuni Sana thank you thank you all right so just a brief a brief introduction of maybe your background and what you do and also how you become a president at KTTC now yeah my name is Brian Kipchumba Chiriot I'm a student leader at Kipsoin Technical Training and Vocational College it's a vocational college situated in Elgeo Maroket County and I'm also a youth leader in Elgeo Maroket County having come from actually the Kereo Valley that is where I was born and raised I'm also a businessman I'm an entrepreneur we have a business probably it is located in Eldoret Town that is at KVDA Plaza we do branding of jazzy's we do businesses such as logo creating and also branding of actually the capes and that is what I do as a part-time job apart from being a student at the tivet so okay yes Kevin what do you do that I'm Emma Pasckevin the KNAT tivets academic secretary the journey of becoming academic secretary this is something that I started a long time ago because I've been in leadership back in my institution Rifty Valley Rifty Valley Institute of Science and Technology and last year last year in November it was now upgraded to Rifty Valley National Polytechnic currently that is the name under that institution I've served at the Department of Agricultural and Agricultural Mechanical Engineering Department as the academic representative the MP of the department for two consecutive years I was also elected as the KNAT tivets academic secretary while I was having that role as the MP of the department from that institution as I applied and then I was elected and then currently I'm also still a student there and I'm also planning to do another course differently from whatever I did because I did agricultural engineering diploma and now I'm also thinking of pursuing a diploma in computer science as an additional course so that I can get what I wanted but under the leadership roles and outside there I'm also doing my only part Python jobs like business I always engage in business because being an agricultural engineer I'm also venturing under agriculture outside here I'm certainly a farmer but I'm not the one who always get into a farm so that is my part time activities some dealing with farm produce like selling fruits and all sorts of that things that is my part time job okay now we can move away from your individual practices let's get to the conversation at hand for those that did not score a minimum grade that is required by now for you to join a higher learning institution maybe what is the alternative maybe I can start with you Brian yeah now when you talk about actually getting those flying college grades that is going joining to the university and that is the hope of each and every parent I had to see that maybe their children are joining those universities but now on the course of the journey of being in high school and you have attained that grade whatever grade that is the cut mark of C plus that is to join the university now we have these other people who these students who are getting C minors we have the C stand and also the D plus and the distance the president is Excellency Dr. William Samoeh Ruto sometimes back when he was he was the deputy president he brought in these TVETs institution these are TVET institution these provides alternatives to those students who didn't manage to join the universities actually to do courses such as diploma courses we have certificate courses and we have the artisan courses that are provided in this TVETs institution now from there these people are going to in grade to actually upgrade and also maybe join the universities with their interest and also upgrade to be people who are very successful in life and we have actually example people who have really have really taken that journey from certificate courses upgrading to diploma courses which will take you another three years and also joining the university to be people who are also having degrees to be the same as equal to those people who got a C plus and joined the university directly so I believe that we are given an option of the TVETs that is the way to go and is actually more competent and more skill based to my perspective right do you feel like a TVET is an option to and maybe also maybe we can get to have a grasp of what a TVET is do you feel like it's an option for those that have lost hope and then what do you mean by lost hope because I don't believe you can lose academic hope because now that life is not all about just academia you can fail academically and excel in life but you know we've made it a narrative that if we did not pass KCC you are nothing in life but also some someone's kind of soda I believe that you know these TVETs have come into they've come in in the nick of time to help those that in other words have said again lost hope meaning that you'll still be able to pursue your favorite course and advance like you said you'll not only are you just pursuing what you're pursuing you also have a vision of pursuing another course do you agree that it's it's it's it's it has coming at the right time when you know students that do not meet that plasma course C plus and above will they'll now will have options yeah my brother Brian I can say that we can't say that maybe people have lost hope or people we have those people who everyone has ambitions of getting somewhere and we always love being at a higher level of education now the higher level of education even the TVETs nowadays are under the same because the higher level of education are the university and colleges and the TVET sector so because all of these institutions are together so whatever we can say is that TVETs can't be an option for someone but TVETs is where dreams come into reality why can't they not be an option they can't be an option because we can only say that at the university they put a limit that for you to enter university you must score this one but for the TVETs whatever they did they say that because you did your phone for because I can tell you that TVETs take even those people who sat for class H exams and then they never go to high school right they still enroll them because we have arts and courses artisan courses yeah and that is the favorite part about that yeah the arts and courses the same same person who never went to high school and then he started from artisan he can still get to a degree why because he has to go to all that process until the time that he'll get up to that degree he wanted a dream will come through when you commit yourself on it yeah there is nothing lost at any time because you always believe that dreams are there but what makes it real is your ambitions and your commitment right and the commitment only comes out when you say that indeed I wanted this thing will I get help from someone so that he can advise me on how to get on that point because most of our youth nowadays miss a part of being taught that you are targeting this one like for myself I can use myself as an example when I did my case CSE I was targeting to get a C plus and above and what did you get but it was so unfortunate I missed only two points to get that C plus and so you got a C I had a C player you know 44 points so now you can't see you couldn't enroll for a diploma at a higher learning institution yeah so I enrolled for a diploma but it was so unfortunate that the same same thing it was almost putting me into depression because I really cried why me why miss these two points to go to for a degree course and then my cousins some of them were talking that right now you could have been doing maybe a certain course at the university what were you planning to pursue by that time I was planning to pursue abhi I had the three courses in mind I was to do law and then I had nothing and then engineering so those were the courses that I had so you enrolled at a tivet I enrolled at a tivet and now you're pursuing diploma in agricultural engineering contrary to your dreams and aspirations how does it make you feel oh it's not contrary it's not contrary because it's still under engineering all right yeah so I'm still happy because I still manage to do engineering yeah let me come back to you Brian he's given his experience what he wanted to pursue at a higher learning institution and he missed by two points for you initially what were dreams and ambitions before you enrolled at a tivet yeah but also by the way it's possible to get a C plus and above and still enroll at a tivet that is very true yeah yeah no for my take actually when I was in high school doing my sitting for my phone for my ambition was to actually join the same university nobody's wish is normally to get to fail most of us we hope and we dream that we achieved the greatest grades that are provided there joining a university my dream was to pursue actually a civil engineering course I was more interested in architectural designs that is what I normally do for my talent I normally paint I normally draw hearts so I was really driven to actually take a course that is more to the line of my my dream actually so what I got I got a C stand I got a C stand and from there C stand what does that mean I got a C stand that is actually around 42 points C plane a C plane it is a C plane a C stand and a C plane is somehow the same so getting a C plane was actually very sad to me but I took it very positive what were you expecting to get I was expecting a B plus and above but from that I decided to accept what I got do you believe something might have happened because of heart stories of 90 percent of students who got dressed that they were not expecting they always advocated they should have their results marked they should have some certain subjects checked probably something went wrong with the school and the marking do you believe something of that sort could have happened that's what you scored from that point with the situation at the moment I was facing some background the situations that actually made me attain that great at the moment all right so you fully accepted it I fully accepted it at that moment when I was almost doing my my exams I lost my dad so I believe those are among the challenges that I got to get that grid I was actually depressed and the rest I'm sorry for that but here you are yeah all right so you wanted to pursue if you were to get a C plus and above you wanted to pursue civil engineering as well yeah but uh so I decided after getting that grid I decided to do something the same so I decided to enroll to activate that is a keeps on technical training and vocational college and you're pursuing I'm pursuing a diploma in building technology right actually related related to whatever yeah do you believe that you will climb up the ladder slowly and even get to a place where you'll do a degree even though it will take you more time exactly that is actually where I'm heading to right after completing my diploma that is actually next year I'll be enrolling for higher education again uh joining uh the tivit again for another course then upgrading to do my degree at the nearest university uh so within time it's only a matter of time actually yeah and commitment that you're going to achieve what you want yeah so it's about sacrifice all right judging from your stories and how you guys are boldly and confidently speaking you're speaking from a place of yes it could have been this is not what I wanted but here's here's an option and then uh a tivit is now tivits are now here and maybe for parents who doesn't understand what tivits are all about and now that you guys have that background and that's where you come from maybe you can start by telling us what do tivits do and how are they helping students who did not also attain that minimum grade entry to join higher learning institutions in the name of universities and the rest okay and the tivits they offer a variety of courses they have a wide range of courses they offer everything that the university offer so tivits in full tivits are technical in full the word tv tv e t for somebody who's watching in full technical vocational training is is to technical vocational technical and vocational training centers yeah centers i believe it's technical vocational education training no no no not education not education training the e is for actually the same uh when we talk about tivit we're talking about the technical training education and uh it's more based on actually the skills we are talking about how you're going to be competent in the society that is skill based actually courses when you talk about maybe courses like tailoring that is handmade actually it involves using your hands majority of the courses right uh so that is what tivits do uh from the artisan courses that is you can do an artisan in maybe plumbing that will involve you using your hands to actually unaliving and that is where we're heading to right when you look to a countries like uh maybe australia we're importing we're exporting actually labor for courses that are handmade that are majorly provided in our tivits when you talk about things like driving they are provided there the same as actually structural mastery we talk about uh megatronics engineering it's actually among the best courses that are offered in our country megatronics engineering it's actually a combination of electrical and actually uh ict right so when you combine those two courses you'll be more competent and more skills with more skills you can also get self-employed so that is what actually this tivit actually adding to it is about self-employment immediately you'll note it for a white collar job when you're out of the tivit you engage yourself in the activity on the course that you've learned from my friend uh you're done agriculture yeah from there you said it's agricultural engineering agricultural engineering so apart from the engineering part of it monitoring you have already the skills to start your own business do small-scale farming like he's doing selling those fruits yeah that is the way that this country is writing to the white collar jobs are no longer there right so that is all the options we have right as you wait for these white collar jobs people can engage in small business as you with your degree maybe as a teacher you'll find yourself engaging in agricultural activities you'll find yourself engaging in maybe you'll require people to do electrical right maybe you're constructing your own house so those are some of the things that these tivits provide right more skill and more competent right and it's more hands-on it's like exactly you are using your talent more and also thank uh the part where the cbc has come in i think it's also playing in handy very in terms of even nurturing the tivitas more so by the time you're finishing with your high school you already know what you're best at with using your hands there's so many abbreviations there's tiveter this ttc kttc now in there now you're still stuck on defining uh tvert technical vocation education training like there's so many definitions i just really like to hear like which is the clearest one i've had a chance to also interact with someone who uh they were doing a transfer there they're a teacher at a k at a ttc i believe or a kttc you will tell me but you can go ahead and tell us maybe um for a person who wants to enroll to maybe where you guys are maybe what is the criteria they use for enrollment and maybe what is like the minimum for uh for for example your course agricultural engineering for a person who's called a d plus or maybe a d minus and below are they also eligible for that and is it possible to also get a scholarship if you want yes it's possible to get a scholarship for any course in the tivet but uh for my case the the course that i'm doing diploma in agricultural engineering diploma is taken from a c minus and above or c minus and above but we have certificate the certificate the certificate part of it it's not known as a certificate but it's known as a agricultural mechanics so that is a certificate part of it it's agricultural mechanics what what happens in certificate is totally different from what happens in a diploma in a diploma it's only slightly slightly different because uh slightly difference in terms of in terms of uh practicals because i but we are doing the same units but now the slight difference comes under practicals okay the certificate bit of it is measuring on practical 70 percent under the national examination council the the next exams that we have been doing for the diploma they are only doing 30 percent so they are 70 percent paperwork so most of them these are just maybe giving a design of something and then uh giving a plan of a farm something of that sort giving a directive on how a machine is supposed to be operated and all sorts of that but uh the certificate bit of it is a person who can get into the field and even the same same machine that we call a tractor he can repair do everything he is also like a mechanic right yeah at the same time but they have a grasp of both the theory part and the practical part yes yes all right um uh brian maybe in terms of in terms of uh before we get to the funding model you know sometimes when you are in these tivets institutions uh the transition between a certificate to diploma and then you've said for you you'd love to even go for a degree you're spending a lot of time don't you think you the age is also going up yeah with the age age is a factor but now actually education has no limit 20 years i love that education has no limit has no limit with your age you're in 50s you can still enroll to a tivet do a computer application in packages right maybe do a computer do computer applications yeah now that we do online actually we're digitizing everything right those are actually hate people that uh maybe didn't get access to these technologies now they end they can enroll to these tivets and do a three month course yeah of maybe computer application packages get to know what is all about icd and get a certificate and get a certificate and be able to work right and be able to and i think that's the best part of tivets now because uh i can imagine for a person who is studying law they are going to go for six years or even more if they fail at some point and you guys had mentioned uh that that i don't know if it's a disadvantage or maybe that's maybe the downside of it uh your exams in tivets are conducted by neck and uh maybe the chances and opportunities you're given to recede and redo an exam if you don't attain the minimum grade for a pass or credit and maybe excellent i don't know because i've not been to a tivet uh maybe it's like maybe twice but uh as compared to higher learning institutions like universities you can fail thrice write a letter and do again and yes but for you guys you may say my chances really too and when you fail like that's it yeah that is very true and uh it's so sad uh that uh we the students actually you're losing your time maybe three years of doing your papers you have a referral you get a referral yeah so what is the next step you do another year a retake of that paper you fail again well there's a difference between a recede and a retake yeah i just know for supplementary right and then we have they have a special exam hey okay for us doing neck i'm seeing it's an advantage oh you think it's an advantage it's an advantage the only thing that i was uh thinking that they are not taking a series is a bit of uh receding the exam twice only you know giving someone a limit but twice is a good twice is a good is a good chance twice is a good chance but you you need to understand that uh we have some people immediately after you are done with your course you get out and then you when you are not able to manage to pass that exam while you are in school and then now you are out the chances of you passing that exam are very minimal yeah you know they need to understand that this person is outside there hustling looking for money and everything sorting out himself but now you are giving him only two chances to come back in fact it's only a few institutions the ones who which are friendly that can allow you maybe at your one month to that paper you can come back and talk to your friends in school so that you can join them revise with them but not all institutions because some of the institution they always say that no the only thing that you're waiting for from you you come during that day that you have that paper so that you can sit for your paper and then you go back because you are no longer student yeah it's only a few friendly institutions right so if if you are to maybe have a voice in a panel on on matter stewards and some of the things that should be shaken and maybe given a first lift would advocate to how many chances three times or even more i can advocate for five chances oh my goodness five is more it's more five is extremely more you know why two in fact two is already too much but three three is good actually the most learning institutions even in the in the law in the law community at least if you fail the bat i believe it's thrice or twice that's it because two times is enough to hold the book read bra unless you machine don't know your course but now the three ones the third one the accounting the first exam that you did that one is amounting to three times you understand that you sat for the first time and then now you are given two chances out of that so now they are counting those are three chances that you have been already given so that's why i'm talking on five or four why because after the first one the first one you are set direct to the paper you are fresh you have never done that exam but you are now doing it for the first time yeah and then the three the three remaining out here are the ones for you to do a chance another chance so that you can conclude and then again then finally graduate right okay that's interesting i was part of a panel at some point last year about one and they talked of exam modules are the exam modules favorable in terms of the sittings yeah the exam modules i think they're very competent they're very good and uh that is what actually our tiff is do and uh when you do for example module one then you do for another module two you get maybe a retake on your module one maybe you got a fail you have a chance how many are they in total the modules when you're doing a diploma course that is a level six we have levels so maybe can enlighten that when you're doing maybe level six that is equated to a diploma course right when you're doing level five that is a certificate course when you are doing a level four that is an artisan course so that is how it's it goes from like high low yeah lowest yeah so you can do level four level five then you're great to level six now let's say for example uh in a diploma course that is the level six when you get a retake or a fail uh in a certain paper maybe in your module one yeah you have several papers that you have uh you're doing at the same time so when you get maybe a fail in one of the papers you have a chance during module two to do that paper again again as you continue doing your module two so you get if you get another pass you still continue the same right you fail during your module three you have the same chance to do a retake of module one right so it's helping right yeah it's really really really helping now before we go to the funding model uh i was speaking to a friend of mine who was telling me he's he's actually a teacher uh story ttc k ttc you know i'm confused please you can enlighten because you're from ak ttc and i know one that's at gigiri so i'm really confused and then i also want to think it was at your go house and then i was sent at gpo so i don't know there's a place they've talked about at ttc tv tc tvetta i'm confused please enlighten me let me start by talking about uh teacher the ttc ttc that is the teacher's training college right uh let me say for example you've done and you've gotten assistant you can enroll in a ttc that is the teacher's training college and pursue a p1 course that is the primary teachers all right uh they go to this ttc and do that p1 course within two years they're done and they're ready to go to the field our primary teaching yeah that's a diploma that is a diploma right uh when you talk about uh ktvc yes the ktvc the ktvc it even sounded like a tv station yeah like uh in my case is keep so in technical training and vocational that's the ktvc it's a tvc actually technical vocational college college that is where now we enroll for these technical skills right you can do these technical skills of artisan you do plumbing you do electrical installation that is now it's more handsome yeah it's more still they offer diplomas and they offer diplomas and the same all right yeah so after that uh you can enroll to uh kenya teachers training that is ktti our kenya training teachers institute yeah uh let me say for example i'm done with my diploma right that is next year i can enroll in a ktti and become a teacher in a tivet that is where the teachers from tivets come from right the ktti you can upgrade from your diploma you do like it's like a higher diploma actually oh a higher diploma it's almost a mature step it's a mature step now you're competent to teach those in tivets all right same to those in you're doing degree you're more competent to teach the tivets all right but so the job group is totally different and maybe they also have like a higher salary yeah they have a higher salary oh i get it now i see what my friend was talking about continue continue yeah i'm writing on so that is uh from my understanding from those three perspectives and we have the tivets now maybe mfusa because he's a secretary yeah he can say something on this okay the tivets are we have the tivets and the tiveta the one that you are talking about yes but there are so many words in there i'm not some sound but you guys let's you talk about it because you don't and then the other thing we have kati yes the kati yes the kati this is a body the national body right that is under the tivets principles oh this is the body that is leading that is standing for the tivets presidents right not presidents principles all the principles of this is like a vice chancellor for a university yeah yeah now that is it you know we call them principles under the tivets yeah and the colleges you work at a college and you talk about principles i thought it's a high school now i see no no no we call them principles uh at our level right and then the tivets are the tivets are this is a body like teacher service commission on the other side we have teacher service commission for the other teachers primary teachers high school teachers but for the tivets we have tiveta right that is the body that is that has been given a mandate to enroll teachers to the tivet institutions right and it's in charge of the tivet institutions that is the tiveta right and the tivets are this is now the student association yeah it is a student association that is championing for the rights and the welfare of the students in the whole tivets across the country so there's so many bodies in there yeah we have many bodies when when you're not keen you can actually i think you i need to just write down a list he totally different from ktvc it's not a tv station anymore tiveta and tivets and kttc by the way yeah if you are learning yeah continue commenting yeah this is a very interesting part now let's talk about stories of funding i remember last year i was in an x space on socials and to summer i think he's one of the advocates of fair education i think he's from the university of Nairobi i remember when they rolled out stories uh funding it started also with story in a cbc kwanzaa kassimao they were able to help students who come from needy homes but the question was what is the criterion they're going to use to fund students and also how they're going to identify that this is a needy student who needs funding and in the intro i read to you about a story about a scholarship who are eligible for scholarships and how can they go about it um when you compare that with high learning institutions as well for high learning institutions universities they have help right yes they are eligible for the loans but they will pay them anyways later on i don't know what's happening for tivets and then uh what is the complaint from you guys that you would like to put across in terms of the funding model because i believe for any tivet definitely you're funding yourself yeah it definitely funding yourself you can go now uh let me talk about this funding model uh in the previous uh past that is uh that's last year uh before the launching of this new funding model our fee payment was actually 56 for 20 uh that is what was cutted for that's for what that is the entire fee the entire fee for and here for a whole year if you're pursuing a course for all year you're pursuing maybe a diploma course let me use a diploma course you're supposed to pay 56 for 20 and uh after the new funding model uh actually it was raised to 67 189 and what was included in there that raised it uh actually there was increase in terms of uh actually some other small departments because the fees is broken down to other small departments now there was increase in actually allocation from the government and that's where the problem was at the moment and uh now the categorization came in place we had scholarships and we had these loans that have been given in our tivets now uh let me see use for example it's been categorizing to actually four we have the vulnerable who these are the people maybe other students maybe actually don't have anything totally maybe say uh they have a guardian they don't have parents that is it so that student is eligible for 80 scholarship and it's also given alone by the government through help at 20 percent so these accounts to actually 100 percent of full scholarship because the government pays for 80 percent and uh is given alone for 20 percent so actually the parent or the guardian that is taking care of the student or the student himself he will only work for those rent and maybe the food stuff so actually everything is scattered across in short accommodation yeah so we have this another person who is actually less vulnerable uh maybe from my take is actually maybe that with maybe with the parents or with only a single parent the government pays 70 percent of scholarship and gives him a loan of 30 percent that amounts to 100 percent so the same applies to him you love him or her he has to just work on the rent and on the food stuff now we have this less needy we have needy and also the less needy now let me go for the needy the needy is given a 50 percent scholarship by the government and is given uh actually a loan through help of uh actually 30 percent so what he the parent has to pay is only 20 percent that's amount to 13 000 around 13 000 there that is the only thing the parent is supposed to pay that is in the pivot now we have this the last category of the less needy this may be apparent to a student who maybe has both parents they are well off with a high name good income so the government is giving him uh him or her 32 percent of scholarship and a loan of 48 percent so there's an increase in loan as you go to as you trigger down to that uh actually that uh program of funding but now where the problem comes in is where now the categorization is actually how the government are placing this uh student to these eligible uh scholarships and there's eligible loan through help so that is where actually the government need to create a very good criteria to say that uh the students are feel feel that uh they're actually more engage on the same and uh they're achieving their dreams and getting those fundings in a very genuine and in a very open way uh yes you you can sound off on that as yes uh if i can add something we can't say that the government has already gotten maybe a good criteria of uh offering this funding new funding model because uh let me ask a question and this question goes is way because uh how can you tell a person who is less vulnerable and and the person who is totally vulnerable yes and i think that was an argument from just posting their details yes and yet you're not on the ground or even sending an application yes sending an application of them is you are you an eddy parson fill this form blah blah blah yeah like you i love the way you mentioned a guardian and but also a guardian could even be your father is a guardian yeah that is true you know yeah but so i think they should also be clear on the approach yes yes pursuing that and what do you think can be done to make that part clear the only thing that i can i think it can be done so that we can get exactly the less vulnerable people it's only getting on the on the ground that is the only way because we can't lie ourselves that it will be possible for us to do applications and then we get the less vulnerable from that you can get let me take an example uh maybe let's assume uh the son to the to our president today applies for the funding for the for the support from the government after applying and maybe let's us we have so many people who have the same names after applying and then another person applies this the documents are very clear and they are the same and then the same same person let's assume that the same person writes there that they also say that they are less vulnerable and then they write their documents they say that they have maybe they only have they have parents but they don't have anything you know they are trying to tell us that they will be getting a less vulnerable people from the measure of the wealth that they have because maybe you can say that your parent is doing a bcd and after filling all those details you know now that one can't be exact because we have people a farmer who is a millionaire you i can say that my dad is a farmer but he's a millionaire already that is i'm not a less i'm not totally less privileged person because my dad is a millionaire it means he's able i'm at the first class level and then we have a farmer at the same field who has nothing now these are two different people and they have a child who wants to enroll yeah all of them for that scholarship but we just have three minutes to go because we are out of town you mentioned a needy less needy like and vulnerable so how maybe if you are to just explain kidogo who is a needy student and who's a vulnerable student that needs this support if they were to go for the eligibility part now from my understanding uh when you are applying for these scholarships there are some documents you need to attach that is uh let me say for example vulnerable you don't have both parents you attach the two debt certificates uh to the documents that is how they will identify in a simpler way uh to the that uh actually is not a somehow less uh less vulnerable uh he'll attach that single debt certificate for example debt certificate yeah okay so now when you trigger down now that is where the problems comes in to identify a person who is less needy and needy uh that is where the government needs to reinforce and need to actually come up with mechanism of easy identifications uh actually through actually ground and there's a marcona ground yeah how can they do that they'll be visiting like every household i'm at they gather like a group of students and families and i think uh through the members of parliament right that is the mp's where how they distribute their bursaries right it involves public participation in the ground we have chiefs and the sub chiefs the village actually know the exact students how their family is so that is how we can actually see that that funding and see about people that are lying because also in bursaries there's been a lot of fraud in that there's people who were sold to bursaries others they bribed others i have even schooled bursaries but they did not need bursaries yes right which is not a good thing uh maybe uh we we have to exit we have like three minutes to go so i'd like you maybe to encourage students also those that are watching you and those that also start for kcc last year and maybe they did not score that minimum grade entry of c plus and above what is the best side of joining a tivet and then you can also point to us what are some of the misconceptions that the ideologies and what people talk about the nays let me just say the naysayers and what they think you know uh who you know tivet there's always the brow her around that so you can first uh so i'll start by saying that uh adjani of a thousand miles begins with a single step right no matter how small you are no matter the grade that you've gotten uh let me use for example those that have done the kcc the results have been released recently you've gotten that c plus you've gotten that c standard let it just be that uh a beginning accept what you've gotten that is very priority accept what you've gotten then from there start cultivating that grid to be something bigger and something productive because at the end of time uh it's only a matter of time to be in that docket that you want maybe you want to that degree it's only a matter of time that is what makes the difference getting assistant and enrolling in a tivet uh let me say for example that uh where i come from kipso and technical training and vocational college you need just it's a matter of time you could do that artisan for one year you do that uh certificate for another two years you do that uh diploma for three years and you're good to go and you become more competent and uh for my brothers and sisters especially from where i come from when people talk about ilgi marakwit you talk about banditry you talk about actually a society that is more into violence and uh we have young people who i want to talk to them and i want to tell them that it's possible to come from the carry values a value is actually a value of death but uh recently through the interventions of our leaders and i want to thank actually the leaders of actually the leaders of career valley that is a country where i come from uh from the governor excellency uh wesley roteach uh to the mps uh led by onerable adams kipso and i for the intervention they're making to see that their youths are engaged through bursaries they give them a lot of bursaries a location so that they can see also that uh the youths are going to these tables they become more complete more compliant and more competent in the society so that they can deliver and save the next generation right uh you also tell us before you come in you also tell us maybe um if you are to have a panel or if you are to be in a forum with the cabinet secretary that is zekia macho group what are some of the things that need a first lift in tvets and if you are to raise some two three issues that should be ironed out but you can go first most people think that tvets are for the failures but that that that's not true that's not true tvets is where the dreams come true because tvets is where the dream come true yeah because when we compare tvets and the universities someone who comes from tvet and then let's take an example for someone who started from certificate then to the diploma level and then degree then degree that the masters then master that person is more competent than that person who has done a degree at the university because when they when they go to the ground to the field automatically the one who who started from certificate or diploma right will be taken and then uh maybe to advise my brothers and sisters back there at home you need to understand that you start from where you are in life you need to start from where you are because you can't tell us that you want to you want to do you wanted to do a degree yes but it has happened you are supposed to start from a certificate accept and start from where you want and then reach where you want to because dreams are valid yes and they always come through then back at home i can say that my brothers and sisters back at teso we always believe that if we fight together then we get what we want and let us make sure that our dreams come true and the whole tvets across the country let us fight for our rights and make sure that we are not suppressed right by maybe the administration and whatever so that we can't meet our goals all right it's already 10 a.m it's time for us to exit brian but just mention them you know the way you can list a bcd yes in in 30 seconds before we sign out they think that should be given a first lift in tvets that you've also identified and experience in 30 seconds just that don't explain now i want to tell uh the cs for education that uh actually uh through our leaders we can want to see that uh actually the encouragement of uh bursary allocations that is through the mp's that the government allocates more bursaries especially to the tvets because that is where i want to head to uh secondly i want to say that uh also uh in terms of funding model let us see that we have the clear mechanism in which uh these funding models can be very more competent and very very more clear so that each and every student can get to benefit from these uh actual scholarships and these help application and finally uh i want to say that uh actually we need to thank actually the government uh so far so good they've done a wonderful job in our tvets and they're really improving the tvets in terms of infrastructure in terms of actually those machines those equipments and uh that is the kudos to the government they're doing a wonderful job through the county governments and through the mp's that is where we get all these resources to the our tvets all right all right we are out of time we in fact we are overriding with a minute which is not supposed to be it but thank you both for coming that is kevin imapuis he is a tvet student association national academic secretary and then brian kipchumba he is a youth leader at girl marokwit county and student president ketc i wish you all the best of luck thank you and thank you for coming through and that's where we put our period or our full stop in today's show definitely we'll see you tomorrow for health and entrepreneurship tuesday i'm brian saku have a fantastic monday see you tomorrow