 We're back. We're live. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech, and here we are on Hawaii, the state of clean energy. And we are in Kauai for the Kauai Energy Conference here in the Marriott Hotel in Lihue, and having a wonderful time. We've interviewed many, many people. We did a live show at 12 noon with Mina Morita and Marco Mangelsdorf, our customary bi-weekly show called Mina, Marco, and Me on Monday. One of my favorites. But one of my other favorites is Beth Tokioka. She's the communications manager of KIUC, which is a fabulous energy company here in Kauai, one that the whole world can learn from. Welcome yet again to our show, Beth. Thank you, Jay. It's so nice to have you and Ian back here on Kauai. We just saw you a couple of months ago, and it's great to have you back on Kauai. Thanks for making the trip out to talk about what we're doing over here. We really appreciate it. So we made a movie out of that trip. It was March, I think, for OC16. It played on OC16, which is now known as Spectrum 1012, and it played for a week of seven separate plays. And then we put it on our YouTube channel, where I invigorated it, and it is now available if anybody wants to watch it. Just go to our YouTube channel, which is youtube.com slash thinktecawaii, and you can watch the video of our last trip. Our last trip, we talked to Beth about KIUC, where we went to Hawaii, what is it, Kauai Green Energy? Yes, the Green Energy plant, our biomass plant. And then we went to see the dairy farm, such as it is, and then we went to see the Tesla facility, such as it is, which is really remarkable. And finally we talked to Ben Sullivan and Mayor Carvalho, and they're here today at the Kauai Energy Conference. So let's get a handle on what's going on, because you've been instrumental. KIUC is energy in the island of Kauai, the county of Kauai. So I want you to talk about this program, how it got started, and I know that Ben was intimately involved in that and others, but I'd like to hear from KIUC about its role in organizing the conference. Great, yes. We're very happy to work with the Kauai Economic Development Board to help put on this conference. There's a lot of partners involved, the county of Kauai and many others. It's a great conference. I think we've done three or four of these. They're not done every single year, but I do recall the first one, it was quite a number of years ago, back when we were really struggling as an island to make a dent in renewables. And so there were a lot of challenges at that time. There was a lot of focus on how we were going to do this, and now we fast forward to today. It's still a great conference, but there's so much to celebrate to talk about how much progress we've made in the last eight years or so. And then where the challenges still lie, because there's still some challenges for us, even though we're doing some really good things in renewables in terms of the grid and bringing more solar and hydro and biomass. But we still have a lot of challenges. So it's a great opportunity for, we appreciate KEDB being the convener and all of us supporting to bring everybody together to talk about this stuff and see where we can go. Yeah, well, you know, I get a lot of messages out of, not only what you've said, but what people have said in the course of the conference here today, because we've seen some great keynote speeches, and we heard Bernard Carvalho sing a song, which was very good. He's a great voice actor. He loves his music. But you know, I'm always trying to distinguish one from the other and trying to get a handle on the special personality of one island vis-a-vis another island and one conference vis-a-vis another. So what would you say from your point of view is the special sauce for the Kauai Energy Conference? I think, you know, I did attend the Maui Energy Conference a couple of months ago. I'll be going to Verge this week. I think for Kauai in most of what we do here is we're such a small community and so many of us work together on numerous things, whether it's energy or agriculture or, you know, it could be anything. But we're all very used to working with each other, very tight-knit, and we all kind of know that it's really up to us to make it happen. You know, it's a small community. It's a small business community. We realize we've got to work together cooperatively or we're not going to get very far. We have the experience of actually working together and seeing results. So I think for Kauai, it comes down to you've experienced it today. A lot of talk story, very intimate setting, folks who know the challenge as well and are kind of willing to roll their sleeves up and come up with some solutions. So we really enjoy working together here and the opportunity, especially when we can provide the structure to have, as we did today, you know, in the morning we've got a lot of informational sessions and panels, putting a lot of information out there, question and answer. And then in the afternoon, we're actually working it, you know, on these various topics like electric vehicles, PV for your business. How do we make this happen for more people? How do we make it work faster? And so that's nice to see that happen, that we can really in the afternoon roll up our sleeves and start throwing ideas out there and making it happen. I want to tell you one reaction I've had, I have several reactions because I'm an observer. One reaction I've had is that here in this conference, it's smaller, it's shorter, but because it's shorter and smaller, you get a more a more directed kind of discussion. The discussion is shapeable and it is shaped. And whoever thought these things up, I probably had that in their mind. And so the bottom line on that for me, most important thing is this candor here. People are willing to tell you the good and the bad. They're willing to tell you the details and not just doing self-promotion. And that's kind of different. I like that. Maybe it's part of the Neighbor Island style or maybe it's part of the Kauai Island style. Could be. I mean, we all kind of know each other. We know, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing really to hide here. And, and like I say, we work together in so many different situations, you know, that that we're all friends for the most part. We're all working towards the same things. And so, and it's nice to have a conference like this on Kauai. As you mentioned, it's, it's one day. So it's manageable. Business people are busy, you know, and they can't necessarily take a lot of time. They can't take two or three days. Flying to Oahu or to another island for a conference is expensive. And it takes a lot of time. And so people on Kauai, I think, appreciate the opportunity to plug in. They can take a day and plug in and really dig into this stuff. And, and they want to do that. It's just that it's kind of prohibitive if you've got to get on the plane and go to another island and all that. So we're really pleased with the turnout today. And we know this conversation will continue into the future. And we're really thankful that we've got folks who are willing to come to the table and actually talk about it and do the work. Many folks came from Oahu and for that matter other islands. And I was impressed with that because the idea is if you come from another island, you feel you can get something out of it and pay for the airfare and put in the time. And I think I think it was clear that they were getting something out of it because there's there's a whole bunch of things happening in Kauai that are instructive. And as you mentioned before, this has got to be another key word. Write this down. It's going to be on the final exam. It's action. The magic recipe, among other things, is that Kauai has found out how to move to action. You said a few years ago there was not much going on. And now look today, there's a lot going on. And somebody has figured out how to make that happen without any fuss. Well, sometimes a fuss or must mean, but, but mostly it got there. It is there now. And it's not only there, but there's a culture around action in Kauai. What is that? Is that the water? Could be, I think. It's, it's again, small town, you know, it's, it's, you can't, you can't do or not do much without somebody calling you on it. So we, we all do a good job of holding each other accountable and celebrating, celebrating the accomplishments. And I think on Kauai, what we've done really, be able to do really well is, well, first of all, we're blessed with a lot of resources when it comes to energy, particularly when we went to see the Tesla plant while you were here, we're blessed with open space, open land, a lot of agricultural land that's not being used. And so we have land owners who are willing to work with us to put up these facilities that take, you know, 50 acres or maybe more to put that back into production, not necessarily sugarcane anymore, but it's making a positive contribution to the island. So we've learned on Kauai, I think, to use our assets to the best of our abilities. And, you know, as we've had much success here, we're up to about 42, 43% renewables now, whereas 2008 we were at only 9% some hydro. We're now at more than 40. It gets that incrementally harder to move the needle a lot more quickly. But you know, we're looking at more solar projects, some more hydro projects, and it all takes a big partnership. And we all have to be able to work together, look each other in the eye, be productive, be positive, be straight with each other, like you said, and, and figure out how it's all going to work for all of us. You know, I can't help but think of the, the old Kauai, which was all about sugarcane. And everybody on the island was somehow connected with sugar, working on the plantation or for the plantation or somehow connected. And now there, there are, do I have this right? No plantations. No plantations. And so Kauai is in the process of redefining itself, I would say. And it struck me while I was listening to David Bissell this morning, that, that redefining itself somehow, KIUC and renewable energy in Kauai is at the center of redefining what Kauai is. There's no sugar. So what is it? And it's not, you know, to me, there was a period of time when everything was all about real estate and attracting people to buy condos and all that. But now that's not really so much the case. There's more free thought here. There's thought about sustainability and agriculture and being a better place for more people and all that. And so I think that energy is at the center of that. And I'm going to give you one minute to think about what I said. We can take a break. We come back and you react to what I said. Agree or disagree? That's best Tokyo. We'll be right back. Going to the game and it's gonna be great early arriving for a little tailgate. I usually drink but won't be drinking today because I'm the designated driver and that's okay. It's nice to be the guy that keeps his friends in line keeps him from drinking too much so we can have a great time. A little responsibility can go a long way because it's all about having fun on game day. And we have best Tokyo she's the communications manager of my favorite my favorite co-op if you will the K.I.U.C. here in Kauai. So I was saying you know about redefining and my my proposition to you is that Kauai is redefining itself and energy because it gives so much energy gives things to people. It enables people. It's a big enabler and you enable the energy. So tell me how much or how little you agree or disagree. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I think you know as you mentioned I think all the islands and Kauai for sure were dealt a big blow when the plantations all went under so much agricultural land available for use but not the critical mass of farmers to make that happen and to keep that green space green and to keep that agricultural land in production. And we never want Kauai to lose that. So how do you manage that pressure for a land owner. You know for for Grove Farm Gay and Robinson all these landowners who have cost. They don't want to develop their land but you have to reimagine it and I think that K.I.U.C. is helping to do this to put some of these lands back into productive use. Certainly there's plenty of agricultural land left for agriculture and want to make sure that that sector is stimulated as well. But what we've been able to do and what we're seeing I think all over the country now is that renewables are becoming so much more affordable. You know there was a time where everybody mid like 2005 or around that time everybody wanted to do renewables. It was the right thing to do for the environment but boy at what cost. You know can we afford to do it. And if or do we have to sacrifice cost for doing the right thing. We're finding now through some of our larger solar projects especially is that you don't have to. I mean renewables can be affordable. And so the more that we can provide clean power keep the cost down. That helps to stimulate all kinds of other activity on the island. It helps our families with their budgets. They can have some reliability on what their electric what their electric cost is going to be. You know having the co-op just in and of itself is such a blessing for our island that are that our customers our members our owners of the utility. It's a civic laboratory and a success at that. I had some conversation today with your director your vice chair of ten Bruggen gate. Jan ten Bruggen gate used to be a reporter for the Honolulu Advertiser. Now he's been chair of K.I.U.C. and now vice chair of K.I.U.C. and he's so dedicated. He reported on tech so he knows a lot about tech and energy. And he to me I hadn't well aside from Ben Sullivan I haven't met a lot of people who have been directors of K.I.U.C. but I have to say it's very impressive to talk to them. Can you comment on the board what kind of people they are and how they conduct themselves. Sure we are so fortunate to have a board elected by our members so they are accountable. We've got a great board of people who are so knowledgeable and they work hard at it. You know this is not a fluff job for them. They take it very seriously. Jan has been on the board for a number of years now and as you mentioned he's a former environmental reporter for the Honolulu Advertiser and very very knowledgeable. Each one of our we have a former judge. We have a former banker. We have such a diverse skill set on our board and they are very very focused on the goals and the strategic plan that we have which is at this point getting to 70% renewable by the year 2030 and we're pretty sure we can do that. And so yeah the board and the nice thing about that is the board again is accountable to the membership. So you know we have a means and an obligation to stay in touch with our members to make sure that what we're doing makes sense for us as an island community and then and then also we don't have a profit motive here we're a non-profit. So we try not to anything that we might charge our members over what it takes to run the utility we'll go back to them eventually in patronage capital which is a great thing as well. It's really interesting what's happened. I mean in the country in general and to some extent in the state of Hawaii state government people are dissociated. They have lost confidence in government. They don't feel that government is them or they are government that is some other party you know which they don't really think much about and don't care much about but somehow don't you think Beth in Kauai Kauai has avoided that that that evolution and that you have really two things that work well. You have the county government which seems to me to be working pretty well and then you have KIUC which is like a modern form if you will of democracy of successful democracy because people really feel they're invested they feel they're connected and and through that organization they can express themselves they can make achievement they can feel they're part of a larger organization and they're you know they're they're actively supporting that organization and they feel that the organization is supporting them that's what they get out of this. That's true I mean it's a really good observation here on Kauai I think with county government you know we're so accessible here I used to work for the mayor's office for many many years and so it's it it always felt like no matter what was happening at the county state or federal level everyone looked to the mayor to fix it but that's the that's the dynamic of a small community and it helps people to stay connected like we do with KIUC now through our member elected board they're accessible throughout the community our mayor is out there all the time not that we don't have frustrations and that people don't sometimes get frustrated with what county government is doing or even what KIUC is doing but I think people don't feel disconnect they don't feel disenfranchised because we are close enough that we can have that conversation. I might not always agree but we can be in that conversation and we can all listen to each other and you know and it's great for us too because we get that feedback on the ground we don't know everything all the time we don't always know the best way to get things done so to be able to have that really close feedback from the people that we serve is helpful for everybody I think. I think you're making history here Beth I hope you realize that you're in you're in the center of a historical process that will be appreciated for years and years as some special phenomenon happened not only in Hawaii but in Kauai right here. It's it's really quite amazing I started with KIUC back in November and so I'm relatively new here but especially with the opening of our Tesla plant in March the international interest in what we've done on Kauai is just phenomenal we've had so many news organizations come from the mainland and and even internationally to see what we're doing here on Kauai which in in a way seems I don't want to say easy but for us as a small community that's how that's what we do you know we just we see a challenge we we get down we work it out we're blessed with great assets and great leadership in our president and CEO David Bissell you mentioned and our board to see that direction of where we might go with large-scale solar where we might go with pumped storage hydro and having that vision and the and the portitude and the what comes with the cooperative which is being able to borrow capital at a very low cost so we have we have a wonderful wonderful portfolio of assets and I think we have the visionary leadership that's moving it all forward in a great direction for our little community and we're just really blessed and I think you're right I think we are making making history of a sword here now he mentioned in his talk this morning that that you guys were going to do 70% renewable by 2030 which is 15 15 years before the 100% state target of 100% by 2045 and 10 years before the Hawaiian electric target of 100% by 2040 but what struck me is that is that when David talked about reaching 70% by 2030 he actually had a plan he had a sequence of things that he was going to do and he was lining them up right now so there was no abyss out there say in 2020 or 25 it was all accounted for and that if you just follow these steps that are already planned you would you would reach 70% by 2030 I mean is that the way it works that's correct I mean right now we have a strategic plan we have that goal but we also have projects that are on the horizon for us more more battery storage solar one project that we're doing with AES right now that we're moving through the process we're hoping that will be online next year even bigger project than the Tesla another one beyond that and our pumped storage hydro which should bring us to 70% and so you know we have a roadmap and it's a real roadmap we just have to execute on it at this point we have to live so long to to see it materialized we do but but hopefully you know if all goes well and and it there it seems to be all systems go at this point we have a we have a path and so that's very exciting is very exciting you know when hearing it today it just seems so obvious that you know this is the way it works this is what you do but one question I'm left with and I wonder what your thoughts are about it is okay so that's 70% I feel from what I have heard in the past and what I hear now here at this conference I feel that you guys will very likely make exactly what you what you expect to make 70% by by 2030 but my final question here is what happens after 2030 does anybody know I mean or is that just too far into the future to have a handle how do we how do we how do we see that how does koai see that going from 2030 to say 2040 2045 because we still want to get to 100% and so I think we have to leave ourselves some breathing room for what will evolve and so we don't know there may be new technologies or other ways to to do this that are going to be revealed in the next 10 years or so so we have to be so that's the magic of moving quickly but not so quickly that you miss opportunities or that maybe you pay more for it than you might have if you just waited so we've we've been able to balance that very very well up to this point we're going to continue to do that and monitor new technologies new opportunities and and just have the trust that we're going to continue to to ride this train and and one of the other big challenges that we have as does the rest of the state is the transportation sector which hasn't been as easy to make progress on here when it comes to electric vehicles let me say that this this conference has integrated transportation with costs that is integrated transportation with business you get a sort of a triumvirative concerns cost and having business step out and do things maybe that's part of the the action aspect of what you're doing and of course you know it's about transportation which has got to be inextricably intertwined I was very impressed with the intellectual content and the issues raised in these breakout sessions I think you have put all that together and I think that makes it very worthwhile to engage in this discussion it's been a really good conference we had our students involved to which was really great a number of high school students here trying to get them to be thinking about this because ultimately we'll be retiring we won't be around anymore and they're going to have to take up the torch and and these are complex issues and they're very very bright kids great to see them at the table they're probably the ones who are going to get us past that with some new thinking maybe and so we're really pleased that are a bunch of our high school students were here with us today as well we interviewed them and they're really bright and they're they're not shy either and you don't get that country girl kind of thing here they're they're sophisticated players some of the guys to come out it was all girls today that came out which was wonderful but you know we're going to continue to work to to cultivate that next generation of interest in these things and an interest in our island home and how we move it to the next level yeah so in the course of our interview I asked them I said you know you guys realize that you're the you're the way forward that this is going to be your responsibility to think of how we can do this and to execute the plan are you ready for that they all unanimously said yes oh absolutely they said but you know we'll need some help from the older people to I love that those kids are amazing thank you thank you so much Jay we appreciate you having having you here and come back again we will