 Welcome, everyone, my name is Michael Gazz, I'm based in Turkey, I'm also a member of Turkey. We do have a few more. We do have a few more. President, one aspect of close to follow the climate science and policy is the anxiety that brings the question of climate. And we can see people who are not following those. Today we are going to start to talk about these issues related to mental health. We have four panelists to help us with this conversation. I would like to introduce you to our presenters. They are not included. Combert is an administrative assistant in the NOMA organization. She has also seen them. We have a lot of work in NGO in Germany. And René Litzmann is a psychologist. René is also regularly in Shibuya and produces research for a range of institutions. So thank you so much for being here today on this panel. We have been through difficult times. There is a lot of anxiety. And that is what the pandemic added. We have had mechanisms to survive. And in this panel we are going to be talking about what is the most new in science and in discovery. And also how can we continue with the information that we have in the future? I have a warm-up question. I can start by answering mine. There is a piece of music that raises your courage. Mine is not very well known. Bob Dylan's song. Let me walk in your footsteps. I am a huge fan of... I actually have a wind-up record player. When I get sick of my endless Zoom calls I go... I have a set of music. I put Louis Armstrong in my record. Good choice. George, I think we just got a preview of you on Desert Island. I have been preparing for it for years. I can tell. You have got it down. Gosh, you know, for me it is... I turn to Kirtan actually. And I really love putting on like Deva Primal or some Krishna Das. It brings some wind to my sails. Oh, boy, you're diving right into the differences between us in a very interesting way. All right, you can... I am grateful for the music and the whole genre of bands that have followed in those steps. And what I love about it is the true improvisational nature of the way that they are produced. And there are some jam in the middle of the song, but often the jam between the songs. And now as a participant in listening to music, it has taken a long. Where are we going with this? Where is it going to pick up? It's going to be a fascinating way to listen to music. Talking about differences, in those moments, I make music, I guess. So when I get out my ukulele or my guitar or when I have a piano nearby, I do that. And that softens everything in me. And I start relaxing. This thing that you usually cramp so much. I realize how much there was on my face and so on. That's one thing. But that's what I do. And besides that, I love my friends. And beyond that, I love playing in the pop rock band. And I love listening to them. And I see that sometimes when I listen to their songs, and sometimes I move them when I think of it. And I remember what they were thinking about. And I think it's quite a new, something that is existing only in a moment always, inherently. So yeah. Very well said, very well said. This is your tolerance mechanism. But let's start with you, Kou. Let's start with you, Kou. Because you're also supporting that side of things. So what is your role as a scientist? As for the right concern? What are some of the tools in our... Yeah, thanks for that question. I guess it makes sense for me to feel the question like that. As a scientist, I have a question. I mean, obviously science has been a key issue to climate change. Over 30 years ago, climate scientists have been working in the forefront of our minds. And obviously, in the past 30 years, we've been moving actually from questions like, is climate change happening to our humans' closeness? Yes. Now, to me and my backyard, you know, in my neighborhood. And so science is obviously a big part of the picture. But recently, as I've been kind of thinking about it, something that we're going to talk about today, I realize that it's just a piece of the puzzle, it's just a piece of the puzzle. It's just a piece of the puzzle that we're working with. And the youth movement has really taken up the issues of science, and the immediate good science. And they've had something really, really important in our conversation. And that is kind of the human aspect of it. Sometimes, the science can be very logical. It can be kind of a thinking approach to the problem. But what I find with the youth movement and with other approaches solving our climate challenges, is that it brings us into the global world. It brings us into kind of, you know, needing to work in solidarity with one another. And I believe so. And I guess it was the Secretary General of the UN talking about the response to COVID. He was saying we need solidarity. And I thought, we need that. We need that. We need that. We need solidarity. We need the science. So we need to be working empathetically together on this issue. And realizing that we kind of all need to go together if we're going to get as far as we can. So, you know, and it's an interesting thing to think about because, you know, often there's a little bit of a, you know, the science, you know, kind of, there's a little bit of a connection between folks who are not actively working hard on climate and those who are. Almost a sense of science that, you know, almost a sense of science that if only in the science you would know how challenging, you know, how important it is to act. But you have to look at the research. Some of the people who are not actively working on climate solutions is not. They're ignorant of the issue. In fact, some of them were very well understood on the slide. It's more that people matter to you about the value of a place in the community. And they have their own interests that they can put on the table. And so, you know, I think it's important for us to be compassionate and understanding and to be working not kind of in an antagonistic way, but how do we bring it together together by a part of this that actually are solving a long-term perspective of success? And I think we need to focus on solidarity and really how we need to work together to kind of hold up that. So maybe that's where I stop, but now I hope you get to, you know, what you think about our tendency to ignore what you think about our tendency to ignore what you think about our tendency to ignore the science that you talked about in your book. Why are we, why are our brains, why are we ignored? And how can we change for indeed in the next seven years since your book came out? It's been seven years since your book came out. Maybe based on some of the latest happenings. I really liked what you were saying. I'm drawing out these ideas of approaches based on the social and the cultural as well as the kind of the data-driven science. I mean, we need the science, but I guess the point which I don't have my book on, I think, still pops very strongly is for the, actually, people's primary source of information as per social well, and you can say that they're scientific facts. But there's also social facts, and I think the primary reasons why climate change, well, climate change is inherently hard to explain. We are actually very good at ignoring things as we try adding all the things that we're challenging to create a sense of internal conflict. And what brings them into play is that they become important for social identity. So it's something that's possible and important for our social identity. If there presents to us a simple fact that the classic case of this is a life long on and off cigarette smoke. If you're an addict, hopefully not at the moment, so you don't know how to ignore the danger about the dangers of smoking. If you want to ignore it, we may have other friends who smoke. And so we can do that very well with another group of friends who seek to avoid it. And I think it's very important to mention that there is a wider sense of belonging and identity. And I think one of the reasons why I think climate change feels so uncomfortable to us is if it has a negative or serving or changing social matters. And if it has some negative solutions for negative and positive and something we can engage with, lion and positive, and evolving. Sensing our sense of identity, I'll come back to that. But the first thing for us in terms of dealing with it is to recognize that it's an interesting culture to deal with you about is my observation of potential scientists that they often come up with certain challenges of dealing with this emotionally. But many of the ways they've had and I've sat through these long presentations with scientists, but they've been the most important and challenging material with this extraordinary degree of distance where it's presented as very divine abstract terms, native graphs about exploring what it feels like or the importance. I think professional science has a distance in culture. And also I know very well the scientists when they speak they're often very reluctant to talk about how they feel about generalization. I know but many often do. So I think we need to recognize that we have a tendency to distance. We have a tendency to say this isn't now, this isn't here, this is something that we don't know. And we still see the nature of a way to put a set-fire in check. They have a tendency to distance. And again, this is changing and we still have to talk about this. They're still disturbing to me how there are large sections of the population really don't talk about or engage with this here. That means they don't talk about what's out there in the social sphere. It doesn't have a social identity. Therefore it becomes again, this trying to get down or end up in my car or death. So I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I guess the solution to that is engaging with that and accepting it to the social sphere. So saying this is something that we can talk about. This is a solution. Share your friends, family, and I will also include it in the culture of this. If it's something that anyone can have, it's something that we can talk about. Indeed, I think the original solution to doing behaviors is about talking about the community, especially the people who talk about them and have friends, maybe. And I guess if I kind of like put a whole lot of ideas and I guess if I kind of like put a whole lot of stuff out on the table, I guess I'd like to say and I'd like to invite the other people on the panel to share your own experience dealing with it. My own way of dealing with it is actually through the sense of joy in the social aspects of my work. So I love to do my work and I love my work. I feel empowered and excited but my act of being in this sense of purpose in my life and act of what gives me a drive to keep going with something like that. Again, it's that positive social narrative of coming together and the sense of joy and the sense of joy and the sense of joy and the sense of hope. Again, I welcome you all to share your things on this but the last thought I'd leave you with is this specific for we have a responsibility to change time for how we present ourselves to be outside the world. So I mean, you know, it's about the postage of a world where we are the postage of like we are the face of this issue for most people and so if we present a face of despair or despair to be outside world or sadness or whatever it is whatever they say is correct or I don't want to be part of it and we are the face of a world with positivity and pride and excitement people say, yeah, I want to be with them but I want to be part of it and it's that lesson of how we project ourselves to be outside the world. Renee, you have a new project actually which launched in 2020 and you have a project that was launched. What George was talking about do you mind speaking about that? Sure, thank you. Thanks for having me. There's so much to respond to what's been shared already that built on what co-kicked us off with and what George has built on which is just picking up on a responsibility to be an exchange agent to be exceptionally intentional in the way we appear and I'm completely in alignment with George that the most powerful thing we can do is to speak and to get involved so less of the way we communicate and message but more with the relationship and the interaction and the commitment whether you're a scientist or a communicator or a student activist or a member that if you are actually seeking to be driving change that we now have a remit to allow ourselves to stand ourselves up so that we can actually move forward to be able to be effective and invite more people to this conversation and I'm not saying that it's almost like this it's a high level it's a more difficult challenge how do you how do you navigate circumstances that raise our high standards of high participation of climate change that changes the temperature of the planet in a way that is regulated how do we regulate that how do we maintain that in regulation that we are not taking our anxiety and our fear and so that without intention I heard Rosemary Randall say a few years ago the one that started Harvard Conversation I talked about the hot dad that our emotional relationships can be like a hot dad that's like I have difficulty tolerating what I see it's difficult to share and give and so that makes sense but it affects our efforts so this project that you mentioned that you mentioned inside out is an experiment that was founded by the Care Foundation to see if we can change the practices that George has referred to tools and tools and and references that people, especially activists can use and the essence of this project is how to guide and levelize what I'm talking about is how to guide how to motivate people how to motivate people they don't care enough they don't want to care how to inspire and hopeful how to inspire how to be inspired how to be inspired how to educate whether it's smoking or diet or diet people have to have big changes and how the clinics can support those changes and say I'm here with you we're a couple I have empathy with you I'm afraid but I also have hope how do you feel and what this means in the behavior is that you want to hear more more questions you want to know more as an expert or scientist but what happens is that a lot of people know a lot we have a lot of information that we're saving and it's a lot to save and so we want to figure out how to share what we know rather than what we know not the opposite of mindful approach to give a talk so what's really exciting I have a very exciting moment we're in right now which is I can never tell you that this happened and we're starting to realize that we're reaching this point so we're recognizing that there's no difference between the content and the emotion that's like 10, 15, 20 years ago that's like 10, 15, 20 years ago I'm looking at all my books in neuroscience in in learning how we process information it's never neutral it's always affected and so how can we accept that and think about it we tell people how hard it is we tell people how hard it is and how hard it is and that's not the right question the question is how do we do it we don't do it in a way that our responses keep us on in that window of tolerance and what you mentioned you're feeling like you're not alone you're feeling like you're part of something bigger you're not alone and it's really important to normalize the experiences we have and normalize them it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense to be scared it doesn't make sense to be optimistic but you know what we're in a human moment we're in a moment of existential existential that's what I'm telling you it's a change to the existential level so it's clear but it's also a community but it's also a opportunity for us to keep going in a way that's possible in a way that we didn't think it was possible with ourselves and our own experience with our colleagues with our community with our community thank you thank you and now I'm going to ask Luisa whether you have the opportunity to talk about your poetry and better on the ground do you have time to think that in depth and how do you deal with the frustration of the people in the building about it yeah thank you so much Thank you so much and I'm very moved by your words. And, obviously, talking now as a young Jewish person, and obviously, a very young Jewish person, it didn't change to be the accent of climate activism, essentially, because I looked at my life, I couldn't bear the idea that I would have to live with that catastrophe, and I just, like, and I couldn't bear the idea that my entire life was going to have to face the climate catastrophe. I'm 54 years old, so for me, to think five years ahead is like an entire life. And also, I felt it wasn't fair, I felt it was a lot. I know that one as a climate activist at some point you don't have to realize that this is always happening at any time in a very, very easy spot where it's not happening. So, obviously, Fridays make sense, because on Fridays we behave like we're in a crisis, in a sense. And usually, we're in a crisis at a time, and that is a very, very difficult situation to navigate. And I think, you know, I do believe that it has something to do with age as well. And I think about the impossibleness of the good way in which we think about the good ways and the good ways and the bad ways. And we don't have to think about the 21st century in the century, in the 21st century, in relation to the 20th century, we're just here, and we have to do the best that we can do, we don't have barriers. And we have to accept that. I feel, I think, why many people are interested, obviously, that there's a lot of time for them to do me at least, but the things that help them more can connect to this, I don't understand. And so, I don't care what you say, I don't care, but I decided that I'm going to make a difference. I'm going to make a difference if I do something or if I don't do something. It's something very important that you don't have to be different. That you keep quiet is also going to make a difference. So, what's easier is doing all this. So, and that is, and that again, that can support the crisis. So, you don't have to think about yourself as a young person when you decide that you are important, that you can make a difference, that you are important in this, that this can be very liberating, but it can also be very scary at the same time. We live in a time when they say, you know, you can do whatever you want, and you grow up in some way or the other. And they tell you that, you know, in a context a little bit of a privilege, but they say, young people out there in the world, out there in the world, they see what's there, they send the young people to travel, after school and everything, but nobody tells them that they don't care. And at this moment, it's a big change about it that way. And I'm trying to think about it in a way that we care more about in the context of the world. And I felt, we heard so much about, you know, getting out of this, acknowledging this, acknowledging us in this, without being buried by the, by the people in what might happen and what might not happen, what might not happen. And also, I think we should avoid it into three aspects, which I think are very important. One is, we talk so much about natural science, you know, we often say, we have to talk about science, you know, you talked about science solidarity, which I find, you know, the solidarity of science that I think is very beautiful, but I also think you have to understand that science is not just natural science, it's social science as well. And we're not just about it, we're learning so much about it, you know, about molecules and stuff like that, but the people don't know what this means for society, they don't know what it means for society, how to maintain humanity in this, and in solidarity. And that is often, when we teach people about the paradigm, and when we teach people about the paradigm, when we talk about the climatic crisis, they talk about the things that we care about the least, because that starts with the human connection, and that for me is something that I've tried to mainstream, which I try to make more famous in my work, which I try to understand how we come to this as a society. Secondly, and the most important conversation about the climate crisis starting with us and our feelings, in Madrid at the climate conference at the climate conference in Madrid, and Johan Rockstrom was giving a talk at the summer assembly, and he said a lot of things, he said a lot of things, he said a lot of things and he said a lot of things incredible and all the things that I've read. You know what I'm saying? I remember his talk, his presentation, and I said, hello, I'm a father, and I'm a son, and then, you know, it's clear, it's all out there, what do you think about it? And I feel that we're teaching ourselves and to think about the climate crisis in that way, starting from here, and we wish what we hope, what we feel, and I think finding those spaces, creating those spaces where these kinds of spaces can be, and those things can be, that is, as part of the climate movement, very much too rare, and it's actually, this is a lesson, so that's coming in a way from the corona pandemic, is that given that we have the planet to the state it is, every moment in history and the moment in the future will be sort of, you know, a crisis, so if we are human, it's who we are in crisis, and who we are, what we are, what we are as humans, the way we behave in a crisis. This is understanding this knowledge, I try to think about it, I also want to know, who am I in this pandemic? Who am I in this pandemic? What do I do in this pandemic? Mind game to play, but it's a question about, it's a question about, it's an answer, it's an extension of one's own. What are we, how can we extend our humanity in a crisis? We said it was difficult in this, and when I talk, when I take a lot of presentations these two years, I always say, this is going to be difficult, this is going to be difficult. I never imagined that a small virus that was going to infect the whole world and that I wanted a pandemic, I never imagined that, but now it's the easy way as understanding humanity and understanding humanity and who we are in a crisis. It's a really helpful mechanism to, that was deep, and it touched me. But I'm sorry, can I just add one more thing, because I feel that you used the three of you mentioned, and I feel that is, for me, it defines all of my words, the idea that maybe it's the idea that maybe we will just mess up hugely and things are just going to be bad. What life, what time will we live at? And I want to look back at this time and look forward for everything we had and everything we had lost to any and everything we had to do in solidarity and love and kindness, and in solidarity and in love and in being there for each other. And understanding or acknowledging that maybe it just doesn't work our way. I feel that allows us and ideally drives us to a point that becomes as important as that we fight. Can I just respond a little bit, because I just value your perspective so much and I think you put a nice, fine point on so many of the things that we've started to talk about here. I just wanted to pick up on your point about the challenge and the opportunity that the coronavirus is going to bring in front of us, right? I mean, there's so many people who are devastated by this and just the way the entire globe has had to change our way of interacting with one another. I mean, it's just so fundamental to be disruptive. But it's also out of finding and I don't have small children running around my house, so I don't bear that stress in my job, so I don't also have that financial stress so many carry. But I also, for the first time in over 30 years, have not gotten an answer in a year. I haven't climbed, I worked on climate, I took my entire life. I know a year before this, I think I've done 100,000 miles and I haven't had to face it, from my greenhouse gas like carbon footprint, for sure. But it's also the way the rest of me, in terms of threatening myself, which is part of the message we're going to talk about here, grounding myself in a different way in the world. And, you know, I found that because we're all community and we're all interacting with each other, I found, especially with my colleagues who I interact with very frequently, that the line between our work lives and our home lives, I love when someone jumps on their lap and says, I don't know how they're all this in, and all of a sudden, my colleagues are not just people I work with on issues, they are human as a way. And, you know, we're in a relationship, we're so helpful in a way that we can interact with each other. So I kind of find that it's the idea to be true, I think, of working together. And I think, you know, all of us have had a reduction of around 7% of greenhouse gas emissions during this time. This is not the way we'll choose to solve our problem. We would have had more, we would have had more, we would have had more, we would have had more, but I think it was the ability for us to kind of imagine where we had to continue to do it, because we don't have to go back to making the same old way. You know, now that we're here, we're not just going to work together, we're going to work together. We're going to work together in the context of IPCC. We are challenged because not everyone has the same level of technological ability in the development of developing countries or all of them. We're challenged. And we're not going to get too close to the IPCC. You know, it's not just the people who come to the IPCC, it's not just the people who come to the conversation, which is a huge responsibility. So I just want to say, you know, one of the opportunities that's been given to us, I hope we're able to continue to do that in our future. Well, I think it's... I'm going to quickly follow up on a few points if I can, but I'm just going to give you an opportunity. I know, but I'm here. And following all of us, I wanted to say just think about it's okay to feel scared. And Luis, you were talking about this too. I think I just want to say I think there's a lot of wider evidence to say that the first step towards overcoming or certainly coping with any kind of emotional challenges is to make it clear to us. And to have it there in the head of your face. To say, this is hard. This is scary. This is difficult. Maybe we have lost a lot. And this is hard. So I feel about it together. Together we can form a community of care together. We can form a community of care together. I think from what you're saying, I think from what you're saying, I think from what you're saying, I think from what you're saying, I think COVID has a huge name. We can be strong. I think COVID has changed a lot the public perspectives about solidarity and collective solidarity. And I wanted to say that I wanted to say this because the communication is very positive in the last few years. I think it's going to be fine. We're smart. We have immense capacity to talk about it. I don't want to talk about how good it is that everything is going to be very positive. Because I don't think it's going to be fine. We know it's not going to be fine. Because inside there's going to be very different. And I know that mess is not going to work. What are you going to say? We're smart. We know that this is going to be difficult. What you're going to say? This is difficult. This is painful. But we're going to do the right thing. And we've tried this in many places. We've tried different methods of testing in control groups in Asia, in the North of Africa. Canada is probably one of the most divided places on Earth. I helped coordinate a project in Alberta, in Canada. And in each place, this has started a conversation and some work on how they can go through this crisis. And that's the key. Thank you very much for this answer. We're getting to the end of our panel. We're going to do a round of redamphages. Quickly. Feel free to enter. Based on what you're saying, it's okay to feel scared, but it's also important to regulate how we're going to do this to respond to the people. One of the things that is around 1.5 is the discussion around 1.5. It's possible, it's not possible. We've already overcome that. Why are we so obsessed with this? Because we're so obsessed with this. We can only focus on doing the best we can and make sure that we can have the best recovery possible. Why are we so obsessed with this? There's a lot to say, I would just point out again that I'm representing a lot of land. Through the psychological lens, we want to do more work. We already know work. How do we get fixated on it? And do we want to be talking about what are we getting attached to and fixing on that? The complicated nuance that we're working on. Aspects of reality. So when we see an attention that has to be a clue that hopefully makes it serious. Like what is actually going on here? Why are we so fixated on this? And usually what we'll find is that we want to be able to do something that gives us stability and certainty. And then we all know on this conversation this kind of stability. And this conversation is something that has been pretty elusive. It's important for me to re-squadrate the term so that there's compassion and empathy. And if you want to clarify that this is very intense and look at how we really want to take on the market. How can we change that to a conversation and then to a question that doesn't move in a direction that feels like it's articulated which is actually going to take us to a whole different altitude and how we're relating. One thing I'll just say about 1.5 is the genesis for 1.5 is that some of the most vulnerable countries in the world were seeing in the climate transition. Two degrees is not low enough for us. We're already at that. So we've got to be sure of it at one point. When you start talking about 1.5 you're telling me you're telling me that and all of a sudden this distant problem is right in the lab. And it's time. And I think that is essentially the most powerful thing about taking it and look at the kind of scientific piece of what goes into 1.5. It is now. Here for us, it was a pleasure to be here to work with these four panelists. It's quite interesting. It's been an interesting conversation. I wish everyone health and courage in this country. I wish everyone good health and good health. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.