 Welcome to NewsClick. Lok Sabha elections have been announced and we are right now in Kashmir to talk about the recent developments ahead of general elections 2019. Currently, the state of Jammu and Kashmir is under President's rule. Recently, ECI, Election Commission of India, announced that there will be no simultaneous assembly polls. The decision has disappointed regional political parties who see this as an attempt to disenfranchise people of the state, especially Kashmir. To talk more on this and to talk about the political situation in Kashmir, we are joined by political representatives from different political parties. Let me welcome Tanveer Sadiq, advisor to Omar Abdullah, Suhail Bukhari, PDP spokesperson and media advisor to Mehbooba Mufti, Ghulam Nabi, Malik, State Secretary CPIM. Thanks for joining us. Let me begin with you, Suhail Bukhari. Your party was in alliance, PDP was in alliance with BJP. In five years of Modi rule is coming to an end. How would you describe Centre's policy towards Kashmir and how has it affected the state in general? Well, you know, Narendra Modi coming to power in the centre had happened after a long, long time, given the kind of mandate that he came with and the strength that he had come with. It was a golden opportunity when it comes to Kashmir because in order to resolve the issue of the state of J&K, there has to be a very strong and bold decision making that has to be done. And we were of the opinion that probably this was unprecedented and he had the right ingredients to make it to the statesmanship of taking initiatives that would go a long way in ensuring that the issue of J&K is resolved through dialogue, which is external as well as internal. We are in the state of Pakistan and also engaging the leadership across the board, whether the mainstream offer that matters to separate leadership as well, to try and find consensus on issues that would pave way for the overall resolution. But we now have come to a position where I mean it's for anyone, everyone to see that Narendra Modi has conjured that opportunity. So you think that Modi government has been a failure for the state? When it comes to J&K, yes definitely a failure at the end of the day. Because the initiatives that he could have taken, that the government could have taken, they did not follow through. Hold on to that, Suhail. I would like to move to Tanveer Sadiq. As Suhail said that Modi government has been a failure for the state of J&K. Do you see any credibility left for the regional political parties as they are going to contest elections? Well, when we say credibility, of course the regional parties have credibility. The fact that my friend in the PDP thinks that Modi or BJP haven't been sincere to Kashmir only after they were thrown out of the government. I wish they had realized this long before when they found the government and when National Conference and the Congress supported them unconditionally. But sorry Tanveer, you're digressing from the question that I asked. I'm asking that is there any credibility left of the regional political parties because we have ground reports by musclic local media and international media that suggest that locals in Kashmir are indifferent to elections. And we feel that by and large it's not going to change the situation on the ground that is upspare, that is the day to day killings. What does that mean? Okay, let me not go not very far in the past, but I'll just go in 2014. 2014 saw one of the best elections of J&K when people came out to vote. Probably they didn't vote for us, but they came out and voted. So if things were very good then, of course there has been something wrong ever since 2014 that people have really got dissatisfied from the electoral process. Now there were two, three things and then I'll come to the main point. Two, three thing is that the re-approachment, the reaching out to the people stopped, the dialogue process stopped, the interlocutors, any of those reports that were made, people were not taken into consideration. So of course people were upset. But if you ask me today what people want, the first and foremost thing that people want is an elected government to come into being. Now who they vote is, let's leave it to the people who they vote, but they want an elected government because they have seen what governor rule can do to them. Right now what the governor or the government of India should do is to hold elections, let people decide who they want to vote for. Talking about change, as you said, let me move to Ghulam Nabi Malik. Shah Faisal launched his party yesterday. He was talking about change. You being from CPIM, do you think that in a highly polarized nationalistic and social religious space, what kind of room is left for the left politics now? I think you will allow me to speak in Urdu. Yeah, whatever you say. That's not proper for me. Down to left. In the sense of electoral back. In the sense of electoral back. Our question is about democratic issues and nationalities, along with issues. Basic issues are common. For example, in all countries, we are the people who raised the issue of farmers, women's issues, working class issues. That are very much there. They are here as well. We are going to organize programs in the state. But do you think that there is a place left for the left? There is. There is. Look at our today. Look at Kashmir. In Kashmir, you will find a red choke in the whole country. Red choke. That's red sugar. Moscow and then here. That is the constitution of Pakistan. That is very much here. Operative. That is history. That is history. That is history. That is history. That is history. That is history. Can I just add there, you know, because you talked about the regional political parties, you know, there has been a concerted effort by Government of India or Delhi time and again to somehow be little or, you know, push the mainstream political parties to the wall. And that is the worst thing any government in Delhi could do. Because at the end of the day, the mainstream are the people who have taken the flag of the country, who have lost, whether it is PDP, National Conference, any political party. We have lost our activists, our carder at the hands of militants and all. In spite of that, if we were the one who come in the forefront for the people. And if Government of India's effort is to push us to the walls, who do they ask to? Because we have never said that we believe in terrorism. We never said that we believe in gun culture. We said we believe in a dialogue process. We believe in the constitution of the country. But in spite of that, this effort in the last four years, time and again to be little or to push us to the wall has been the worst. We have been the worst sufferers. And I would want to add one very important point to this. Look at what happened when there was a possibility of a government coming to form where in PDP, National Conference and Congress could have come together. Just recently, what did happen? The governor, of course, under strict instructions from the Government of India, dissolved the State Assembly. And look at the kind of narrative that was being pushed. On the prime-term television, nobody was questioning the daylight heaths that was carried by the governor at that point in time. All that was being talked about, well, it was done because, you know, it would have meant anti-nationals coming together to form the government. Now, if the main political parties who abide by the constitution go through electoral process, if they are anti-nationals, they are anti-Propakistan, they are not for the constitution. What's left of you? Modi Sahab has acted. The first thing we understood and proved was that he didn't act as Prime Minister, he acted as BJP and RSS. And his agenda. My answer is that his agenda started in 1951, in 1951, at the time of Shyam Prashad Mukherjee, Atto Bihari Bajbhai, Alki Adwani and Din Dayalupadhyay. Now, these three people are fighting against Kashmir. And the same agenda is still going on. The same agenda has been taken over by the government. How it is possible that they will last it? They will never allow Kashmiris to get their general rights. Or else, what do people here want? We all say together that 300-70% should be implemented. And where is the international? Where is Pakistan? That's what's going on in the country. Hold on to that Gulam Nabi. I would like to ask Suhail Bukhari. You said political parties. Mahbubah was recently called pro-Pakistani. You're being called anti-nationals. And when they describe Kashmir in the other states of India, Kashmiris are seen as radicalized youth. What kind of radicalization is going on in Jammu and Kashmir? Well, the only radicalization vis-à-vis Jammu and Kashmir and the youngsters of Kashmiris is happening in the narrative factories of RSS. And of course the prime-time television debates. On ground, what is happening is not radicalization but alienation. And something that anybody who has even a basic understanding of human psyche would agree to. Now there's an attack which happens in Pulwama and you hold almost every Kashmiri responsible for that attack. Without even terming them Pakistanis, you behave and act against them as if they were the real perpetrators. And the Prime Minister keeps silent until the Supreme Court intervenes. That's precisely what I'm saying. Leave aside the contours of Jammu and Kashmir state. You saw what happened in Jammu. Kashmiris were victimized. There was arson. As you're talking about Jammu, let me ask Tanveer Sadiq. While everyone talks about radicalization in Kashmir, they often miss the point that there is another kind of radicalization that has become dominant in the last five years. That is Hindutva radicalization which was very evident recently when the Jammu was under curfew. And what do you want to say about the Hindutva radicalization, the liberal voices in Jammu which are disappearing? See, there are two things. One, when you're talking about radicalization in the valley or the state and the radicalization in the rest of the country. Now the rest of the country, I'll start with that. Let's say there was an agenda of Hindutva. This is a Hindutva agenda where you want to really put one community against the other. Because somehow or the other they would win votes out of it. And this is what precisely the last four and five years, this has been whether it was Babri Majid, whether it was the lynching of Ikhlaq, whether all these episodes or killing of Gauri Lankesh. Across the country, these radicalized people were getting support from registered political parties. So they knew that nobody would touch them and they just had a free hand. Now over the years, the BJP I believe in, I mean this is what I hear or read, is that BJP itself wanted whatever trouble is in Kashmir, helps them electorally in the rest of the country. You kill, you maim, you pellet the citizens or the members of this region. It automatically helps BJP to sell that in the rest of the country. I'll just finish this point. Now imagine a boy being tied up to a jeep, a person who goes out and votes. Instead of ensuring that the officer who did that would have been behind the bars, the rest of the country rose up and said and awarded that person. Now tell me where in the world would this happen? You digressed a little. I was asking you that radicalization or to say that close affinity of people in Jammu to BJP and right-wing voices. Do you think that is going to affect Kashmir? Because we saw that affected Kashmir recently in the Aftermarthapulwama attack. I want you to talk about that. I don't want to start a to-do match but I'm telling you time and again ever since 2014. And this is precisely I'm repeating. I didn't want to say this but ever since PDP and BJP government came into being. The division has been at the worst end. I mean people started talking let's bring Jammu and Kashmir together. But it has boomed and it has gone opposite to what everybody thought. I mean the tallest leader of my friend's political party, Mushti Mohammad said when he formed the government with the BJP he said I want to bring Jammu and Kashmir together so that they come closer together. But that has not been the case. It has gone even worse than what it was earlier. The fact that the Hindutva voices in Jammu for the first time in 70 years took out a rally with weapons and swords in their hands in Dorda and Jammu itself meant that they had the backing of BJP and unfortunately the government that And that means a dangerous situation. Dangerous situation and unfortunately the Prime Minister, the Chief Minister was from the PDP then. I wish it was stopped then because if you had stopped it then Mr. Hillbukhari wants to make a point here. I see basically what the pattern of PDP, Mushti Mohammad said said or for that matter did essentially while they formed the coalition with BJP essentially based on this root cause that there are fault lines between these two divisions that ought to be ensured that they do not erupt in a volcanic situation and essentially till the government was there it was ensured that such a thing does not happen because I would want to quote an example. Before Pulwama attack do you even realize that there was an attack on the Amarnath Yatra the pilgrims would come from Gujarat they were attacked but did we see that kind of backlash in Jammu or for that matter elsewhere in the country? No, the reason was that the BJP as a political party remained engaged in the state through that alliance in the state. Let me go to Gulam Nabi Malik. Left politics, the immediate enemy of left politics has always been RSS right wing voices gaining ground in Jammu. What do you think of that? This is today's topic as I said earlier. It is since 1951. Since then basically this is the second matter that I would not like to go into detail. But the basis of the conflict and the reason for the regional conflict like Jammu started to think on one side and Kashmir on the other Kashmir's anti-Jammu was not there. Kashmir's Agarate was also there. Anti-Jammu was also not there. But Jammu's anti-Kashmir was there. That is what was created from that. This is what Mahol was fighting for. And the way Mahol was captured, from the side of Hindutva and Kuwait, after 2014, the way it was supported by the state, the state was also talking about the rally. They were not saying anything. They were not saying anything. They were just saying that they are going to take the US out of the country. They were taking the RSS out of the country. That is the reality. Since then our state has been polarized. Hindutva and Kuwait are being given the role of the state. Hindutva Jammu, Bode, Lada and Muslim Kashmir. And what is happening in the country? The politics of the RSS can be fought. Only the people of Jammu and Kuwait are fighting. If the regional issues are democratic, they are also going to be addressed. Let me ask a question which is very important right now. The disenchantment of the youth in Kashmir. As you said, alienation. Do you think that down of political activities, banning of Jamaat in a Muslim majority state and not having a place to protest and dissent, don't you think it's going to further alienate? See, I'll tell you two or three things. First we were told that this is an economic problem. Because youngsters don't have jobs and they don't have money. So they take up arms. Now when you had people like Rafi Bart or the people, or those MBA passed out. Mananwani and then people like Rafi Bart who was a professor in the university. Now this changed the whole narrative. What Government of India made us to believe that it is all about economic doldrums and occasional packages. This was proved all false. The fact is that Kashmir is a political issue. Unfortunately the Government of India never understood that. They never thought that you know let's reach out to the youngsters and talk to them what exactly is their problem. They were never made to believe that they have a right to dissent. They have a right to protest. They have a right to talk. I mean let's agree there have been stone pelting across the country. I'm not for once condoning that. The fact is that there have been instances in the country but you have never used such force against them. Pellets. I mean where in the country have you seen 10,000, 15,000 young boys and girls being pellet victims? Where have you seen a young girl, 6-year-old or 7-year-old Aisha? Her eyes are locked. I mean come on you have to somehow or the other reach out to the youngsters which unfortunately hasn't happened all this. I have a point to make and this is a direct to Suhail Bukhari. You regional political parties they talk about democracy. Do you think that democracy can coexist with operation all out? And since operation all out I will just read out the figures to you. Under governance model of Narendra Modi militancy related incidents increased by 176%. That is from 222 in 2014 to 614 in 2018 and that is happening under operation all out. I think you know as my dear friend was referring to the bottom line remains that Kashmir essentially is a political problem. The operation of security forces against armed militances and vice versa has been on for last 30 years. That has neither solved the problem for either of the parties. It has not helped the state to ensure that the issue is taken care of. It has not helped those who are seeking political resolution who are seeking resolution of the problem through gun. It has not helped their cause either. We need to understand one very critical lesson from what has happened in last one and a half months. The Pulwama incident has taught us one very critical thing that maybe we should now at least understand that the trigger for a nuclear war in whole of South Asia is probably lying in some youngster from Pulwama or any other part of the country. That had almost brought her to the brink. I would like to add one more thing. As far as operation all out is concerned, this incident happened even before 2014 but still there is a huge difference. From 2014, when Kashmir's question, as they rightly said, is a political issue, it is a social issue and we need to address it. But it has not been understood. It has been understood by military and security. It has been understood by army and military. Forty-five thousand troops who were sent during Panchat Poles are still present here, adding to the existing number of troops that are here in Kashmir. I did now. Even more people are going to be brought here. But this matter has been made. Kashmiri has to be brought here. And until this situation continues, there will be no future for democracy in our Kashmir. At a very important point, unless and until there are policies or things like operation all out, we cannot say that there is democracy in Kashmir. Turning to Pulwama attack that we have been talking, there are two dimensions to Pulwama attack. One is internal and another is external dimension. While the entire India was talking about external dimension, that was Jayashree Muhammad linked to Pakistan, we all missed that. We were so busy in talking about external, we all missed the internal dimension to it. The internal dimension was a 19-year-old boy hailing from Pulwama, weaponizing himself. And that is happening after 15 years, which happened in 2000 in Badami Baga. I'll come to the point. I know where you're going with this. But the fact is that this is what we've been crying ever since this BJP government came into being in Delhi. All the advances that the successive government had done reached out to the youngsters, there was very less radicalization then. But suddenly the trigger where youngsters would take up arms, I mean, for once I don't agree, it's a great step when the army chief or anybody from the daily establishment says that we killed 300 militants. The fact that why did those 300 young boys become militants, that is the core point of it. Why did they were not militants a few years back? They suddenly became militants. What happened? And we have seen the stories of everybody who is becoming a militant, even for that matter, Adil Ahmed Dar, that 19-year-old boy. Imagine a young boy becoming a militant. I'll not go that far. I'll go about this assistant professor. He became a militant on Thursday. Friday he was a militant. Saturday he went to a place. Sunday he was killed. Within three days he was killed. Look at the lifespan of these militants. They're not well-trained, but the ideology, the mindset that has become, we need to reach out to that. Mr. Hel Bukhari, don't you think that demilitarization is the first thing we should be done in Kashmir? Demilitarization has been one of the core points of Agent of PDP particularly. Whether it be the Self-Documentary itself or for that matter the Agent of Alliance, which was the written commitment between BJP and PDP, it very categorically talked about the fact that there has to be demilitarization in the areas wherever there's gradual improvement in the security scenario. You cannot straight away order, for example, let's be very practical about things. If you're talking about areas like Pulwama and Pulgam where there are militants present, nobody can actually ask the security forces to withdraw immediately. Troops have been increased in the last five years. If the situation is not right, of course there will be more security presence. I want Gulab Nabi Malik to make a quick point on this. Demilitarization in Kashmir. As far as I've said before, to establish a Jammuhri environment, we have to follow the guns. How? From where did it start? From the militants' guns, how? From the security forces' guns? Right now, when we talk about the State, the State has also made a responsibility, because it's a responsible answer. First of all, we have to start with them. And as far as militancy is concerned, we are not for militancy. For example, if someone is taking that gun, and you're listening to a professor, I mean an idle boy, he's dead. That's the way to die. That's not the way to live. We also want the way to live for them. That's the only way for both of them to live. That is a political process, a democratic process. And they won't get that gun. They will have to leave it there, and leave it here too. Look, I'll just add to this. You say that we are being demilitarized here, why are the militants here, why are the youngsters here? But the Government of India doesn't understand that when we talk about democracy here, when we talk about the Jammu-Kashmir, there is no democracy. You keep the governor here, who makes constitutional amendments. He has no moral right to do that. Why would he do something? I mean he gives, he tells himself that he is the chief minister, he's not. For he is a nominated person by the president of India. It is the elected government, whether it is from any political party. They have not only encroached, they have not only encroached, they have done so much damage to the democratic structure in Jammu and Kashmir, that's why people are getting dissatisfied here. I want to make a quick point. I think you know very well, all the states in our country, in every state, although it is not 370, but the government is there, they do what they want, but despite being 370, they have never given the assembly the right, which was their right. Until 1996, after the assembly, the 8th or 9th resolution was passed, and no one even saw it. The assembly was unanimous, there were many people there. Everyone passed unanimously, no one even saw it. After that, the agenda, I don't know if they have the right or not, what was it, what was it? We had the right, we had the right. We had the right, but where did it go? This is the catcher, and this is the governor's case. The governor is even bigger than the vice-president. The leaders here, that's being implemented here. There are no democratic institutions here. There are no institutions here. There are no institutions here. There are no institutions here. At every level, they have been disrupted. At every level. Aruhe Bukhari to you, achieving the political space of the regional political parties. What do you want to say about that? Look, there is no need to encroach the space of a regional party. Because you will not decide whose space it belongs to, nor will the National Party decide nor will the regional party decide. When elections take place, how do you know that the National Party will get more mandate? Or it is possible that the regional party will get more mandate? So who has the space, they don't talk about it. Let's talk about the constitutional structure. Let's talk about the structures that are supposed to be in place and to be executed in the way that the constitution is provided for them. That is where there has been an onslaught recently. Look, they said that Agenda of Alliance, we all know that RSS and BJP have a swan agenda that the special status of Jammu and Kashmir has to be finished. They have to abolish Article 370. When Agenda of Alliance was made, a written comment was taken that you will not even talk about Article 370 until the status quo is maintained. And until the government is there, they have not said anything on the record. And as soon as the government fell, they felt that they got a chance. So the designs of Delhi, to hurt the special status of Jammu and Kashmir, they started saying through the nominated governor. My friend has already mentioned how a nominated governor represents the government of the state which is supposed to be representative of the popular government. When it comes to the constitutional matters, where the constitutional amendments are to be made. So the same Agenda, we say that it is a sinister design that you continue the governor's rule, try to implement the Agenda of Delhi and RSS unhindered and do not let the regional political parties, the popular governments come in this direction. The reason is that there have not been simultaneous elections. Despite the fact that all political parties said that we know that there are security issues, there is a problem of reinforcement. Then we asked, tell me brother, that you have made panchayat and UBL elections, its requirement was far more. When there was no problem at that time, then what is the problem today? So Tanveer Sardik, do you also see this not holding simultaneous assembly election as a sinister design by the GOI? Of course, we have been saying this from the day one. We were the ones who were saying, we were the ones who sent the letter to the election commission that you have no reasons because under Supreme Court law you have to have election within six months. And then there are people who say, how will the simultaneous election be? Please understand, over the, in the past, because Jomu and Kashmir have six years, which is ten years, which is duration, and parliament is five years. So of course, it never becomes simultaneous. But because this was the first time that it had come together, they had security forces, they had everything with them. But because there was a sinister design, because they had a nominated governor who is trying, who is helping to somehow weaken the constitution of Jomu and Kashmir. These three years, three important things happened. And I am sorry, I am not putting fingers. GST happened. That was economic onslaught on our autonomy. Then food security bill happened. And the third, third biggest mistake that the PDP president did was when she resigned as the chief minister. I wish she had written that I hereby seek dissolution of the assembly of Jomu and Kashmir because if that had happened, you would not have had a governor here doing an onslaught on the constitution. Both the friends are like mature politicians. They have an eye on the history of the state. So I don't think it would even be required for me to say what happened to the special states of the state who brazenly trampled upon it, who literally sold it off for power of generations. It's very important to understand that when there is a central law, it is for the state legislature to decide whether to implement it or not and that would be decided on what kind of good or bad it brings to the state. This is, these are not the first laws that have been brought into or extended into the state based on the ratification of the state legislature. We have had certain laws being ratified and brought extended earlier also. Now tell me for God's sake if there is a food security act which helps a commoner, a poor person to get food security at nominal rates. How does it help? Of course it helps. It's for the people of this state. You want them to star and No, no, no. We had our own act. Let's talk. We had our own act. And the last question he didn't answer. The resignation of Mabuva Mufti and not seeking dissolution of the assembly. I think it's absolutely clear that even then the two political parties at the regional level wanted to come forward, come together and form the government. We saw governor behaving the way he did. So when it comes to what happens to the assembly that has been No, no, no. You know the constitution very well. That's not it. I should I'll make a quick point. Yes, yes, yes. Just look at his government. We are out of it. But what has happened so far? History tells us. But one thing I would like to say is that no government here has given him a chance to take a lot of work. But whenever he wanted to take a lot of work he didn't have a chance to take a lot of work. This is the matter of alienation. The way today's policies have been implemented in these five years. Those people who were not with the elite militancy were also pushed towards that. Our communal development of our state as you were talking about radicalization of the government and then in the Bengalis and in the U.P. and everywhere our children were pushed to this year. I myself am not afraid of any of them. I am not afraid of anyone. I am not afraid of anyone. I am not afraid of anyone. I am not afraid of anyone. I am not afraid of anyone. I am not afraid of anyone. I am really I'm not afraid of any of them. hello The recent developments have brought it pose the normalization of the sentiment of wanting Kashmir and not wanting Kashmiris. The recent developments have suggesting that there should be a boycott of Kashmiris and until the Supreme Court of the country intervened, we did not see the Prime Minister utter a single word. We were happy at that time. When people like them, like here in Lucknow, in Lucknow, they were beating and beating the children, but some people were standing there. And there, the people of our Addwa, the people of our D.Y.F. They were standing in front of our Addwa. They were confident. They invited the traders here. And they opened their shops there. They have a chance like that. I mean, that is the point. I think this was the biggest division we got to know. That was with this incident. The Hindutva, those forces were given free hand. I mean, like I said, it's all about electoral politics. The more you beat Kashmiris, the more you somehow harass Kashmiris. It translates into vote for Hindutva groups. But having that said, when you said the Prime Minister of India, when you say he's not a Prime Minister of the BJP, unfortunately, he proved himself to be the Prime Minister of the BJP and not the country. He should have stood up and said, look here, the Kashmiris are a part of us. It's not only about the land, it's about the people living there. And in New Zealand. New Zealand, I mean, look at, look at how the Prime Minister came out and hugged the people. I mean, this is what this is the leadership. And the statement she made that this is not New Zealand. And this is us. I mean, it's an attack on us. I wish the Prime Minister had said this on the very first day. I don't think Kashmiris would have been harassed. But another very important thing is that there are people like my friend just now said, especially the sick people from Sikh community who opened up, who welcomed Kashmiris everywhere. And this is, I mean, and the retaliation here was or the response from the people of Kashmir was that all the hotels were opened up, the Dabas were opened up, restaurants were open and welcomed Sikh community people and people from Hindu community who helped them. I mean, there are good people across the country. Unfortunately, the time is wrong at the moment. The Prime Minister was wrong. The party was wrong. But we have hope that things will improve from here. Everybody wants to make a quick point. Yeah, I only wanted to, you know, add to what already has been said by Tanveer. Is that it's, you know, created this division. I wouldn't say it is created, it's just brought it to the fore in the limelight. And it already existed. Exactly. And the most worrying part of it all. See, RSS has always been there. Their anti-Muslim stance has been there. But what has been special this time around is that it seemed to have an outright support from the state. And as Tanveer mentioned, I'll also second that thought that this has a lot to do with the electoral politics because Narendra Modi-led government was cornered on issues of corruption, on issues of development, on issues of economy. They had nothing to show to the public. And therefore all that, this facade was created. The more you beat a Kashmiri, the stronger your chances of electoral victory in the mainland India. My last question to all of you that Article 370 has triggered anxieties in Kashmir among the people who think that if the Article 370 is abolished, what will happen to the state? How, as political parties, you are thinking to protect it? Assembly elections are not there. There is no chief minister currently. The state is under President's rule. I want you to talk about that. It has been a full-fledged plan, conspiracy cooked up in Delhi by people in RSS and in Nagpur. This has been all along their program. But what is important is that if you do that, you open the whole instrument of accession thing. Are my friends in the BGP ready to daily open that book again? Because if you open that, you are essentially opening the accession of Jammu and Kashmir towards Delhi. If you are ready for that, by all means. I mean, then let's have a referendum. There will be nobody there left to take the flag of the country. I mean, there are people. Like I said, we mainstream political parties have been here telling the people, look here, we are better here. Things will pass. There will be better tomorrow because the country as in itself is a good country. Some people do not reflect the sentiment of the people of the country. Of course, that has got a huge dent with what has happened in the last four, five years. But we are trying our best. But if you fiddle with the special status of Jammu and Kashmir, you are straight away, you know, you are playing with fire. You won't have anybody here. Look, till now, it was 370. Like Tanveer Sahib said, he is right in saying this. That 370 cannot be removed from the constitution. Because there is no such condition. But to increase the insecurity and feeling here, so that more and more people here, they should be pushed to war. This is a challenge here. But the second thing I would like to say is that with regards to this, these Aryans, BGP and Hindus, want to kill all the countries. They want to be experimented here for the people of Petra. We are fighting for Kashmir. What about Jammu? I just want to... It's already been said that constitutionally not possible. We would fight it to turn nail. You know, it would be over our dead bodies. But one simple sentence that I do want to put on record is that no Article 370, Jammu and Kashmir, ceases to be part of it. That's it. Very important point you made, Suhail. I want to ask you, in Jammu, Dogras and Kashmiri Pandits have come together and have found natural affinity towards BGP. How you see that, Kashmiri Pandits? I do not have data available to me to make a conclusion like the one that you are drawing. But when it comes to politics and electoral politics, we are in democracy. Individuals, communities are free to choose the parties or the individuals that they want to... I would not hold it against anybody if they want to associate or affiliate with BGP. Three decades of long battle, do you see any end to it? See, we've had... I would not say only three decades. I would rather want to put it on record and all of us know that it dates back even further. We've had miserable times. All of us have been affected directly or indirectly. We've lost people, we've lost our happiness. We've lost honour in all these decades. But having said that, because we are Kashmiris, we just cannot afford to be hopeless. We have to be... You want to make a point on that? I agree to what Suhail is saying. Normally, across the world, if you have an incident of a gunfire somewhere, the whole community in the neighbourhood is taken for counselling. And then they are somehow brought together and then there are people who counsel them. Unfortunately, people are in depression. Let's agree to the fact that there are lots of people who have lost their loved ones. People who have... I've read it in a report that the highest rate of depression is in Kashmir Valley and that's obvious because so much has happened. But I believe that there is a lot of hope. And if you don't have hope, I think that is the day that Kashmirite will die. Kashmirite is hope. And I believe the day will is not far when all of us together will be talking here and in peaceful atmosphere and things will become back to normal. Gulam Nabi, you want to make a point on that? Three decades of long battle, do you see any end to it? Yes, of course. As far as our Kashmir is concerned, all the villages are from Khabristan. That's why people are living in Khabristan and Shaheel Mazab is also named after them. They exist. They exist. But in spite of that, the people who take all these things, with this experience, who they want, the people who want to be alive, and the people who are with us, and the people who are with us, they will help us to move forward. And they are with us, they are with us. We are going to take them forward. And everyone is ready to go with Kashmir. Thank you for joining us.