 Welcome to Out of the Comfort Zone. It is a beautiful Tuesday afternoon and I am your host, Arby Kelly, on ThinkTech on Spectrum OC 16. Now sometimes when you're looking at an important engagement, you ask yourself, what do I wear? And sometimes when you're meeting someone new and you're not quite sure what sort of impression you're making, maybe you end up making a bad one. And one of the reasons why may be what you looked like, what they thought of you, what they assumed about you. Which is why it's so important to know what sort of message your outer appearance is sending. Because that is something you can control. And here today to talk with me about this is Pam Chambers. Thank you for coming back Pam. I'm so excited you're here. Thank you. Me too. Yes. Good. All right. Could you just really quick sum up for our viewers a little bit more of what you do and how you help people? I'm a presentation coach so I help people with their body language, their voice, their words and their image and their comfort and confidence in front of groups of people. So I have a series of classes that I offer and during session two all we talk about is image. It's all about image. All about image. And it seems like it's that way in real life sometimes it's all about image. So could you tell us about some of the common mistakes people make when it comes to their image? Okay. Some common mistakes for men are they wear everything they own in their pockets. So you see a otherwise well-dressed person approaching you on Bishop Street. Everything their phone, their keys, their sandwich, everything they own is in their pockets and it makes them look wide and bulky and it even can create noise. So they need a handsome, elegant bag of some sort that they can put their things in. So it's not to ruin the lines of their suit. Right. Right. Clothes that don't fit properly, big mistake. Clothes that have lost their good condition. They used to be nice. I had a man in a class the other day and I said I know that those pants were once excellent and they have just over time lost their excellence. So you deserve a new pair of pants and he went and got them. And sometimes, again, the fit is wrong so it doesn't look flattering, it looks uncomfortable, tags sticking up, pockets coming out, just those little details that we forgot to take a final look at. I have to tell you sometimes that happens to me when I get off of my motorcycle, I'll walk in and my collar will be all upturned, my pockets will be hanging out and so I have to actually stop and like find a convenient mirror or window and like, yeah, spiff up. Because otherwise I have no idea what I look like. And I think it's interesting you mentioned ill fitting clothes because most people seem to think that when they get something off the rack, it should fit them and that it's just fine as it is. Almost never. Is that the case? So that's why everyone needs in their toolbox the name and address and phone number of a tailor. The stores will tailor your clothes for you but it costs more to do it that way. So there are two or three tailors here in the area that people can use. But almost always the pants aren't the right length or the sleeves aren't the right length. Pet peeve, people who roll their sleeves up and they show us the lining of their sleeves. That's me. All the time. It was hip in the Miami Vice days with what was his name, so cute, forget his name. And he would roll his sleeves up or shove his sleeves up and then flip up his collar. That was a look. It was a great look. But for the board room, we don't want to see the inside of your jacket. So get it tailored. I think that's a little bit of a problem here in Hawaii because it is so hot and most people, one, they don't want to wear suits, but two, if they do, it's like, I'm sweating on the inside of this, oh, it's so hot. So I think that's hot. Well, hot, but does it need to not fit, right? So another thing that comes up a lot is my weight has changed. Either they've lost weight or they've gained weight and they're still wearing the same thing that once did look like it fit and now it's not. It's not. Whether it's too tight or too baggy, it just doesn't suit them anymore. And some people don't want to wear the right size because they don't like the number of that size. So they don't... That to me is crazy. It is. Well, we have our pride, so we were once a size X and now we're not and we still go to that section because we don't want to admit I'm different now. And that doesn't make sense to me for multiple reasons. One because different stores have different sizings. Yes. One because the sizings when they were created were totally arbitrary. Three because the stores just change them whenever they want to. They use vanity sizing. Yes. They'll take it down so you think, oh, I've gotten slimmer. No. The store is manipulating you and playing with your emotions to make you buy more clothes. They also manipulate us by having mirrors that make us look thinner. That got me for so many years. Yeah. I finally figured it out. Yeah. Well, you can tell because it's kind of rippled. It's not a true reflection. So the minute you see that, you should say, okay, they're flattering me. It ends up. Yeah. I always have to test it now by like putting my hand out like this and then like turning it sideways and trying to see if I notice any perspective difference because otherwise it will fool me. I've gotten jackets like that before where I'm like, oh my gosh, I put on this jacket, looked in this mirror and I lost 10 pounds. And then I get home and all the pounds came back and I don't know what happened. So those dark mirrors. Another flaw is when a man or a woman, when they're wearing pleated pants. So do we all know what that means? I don't. Okay. It's where the, I wish I had pleats in my pants, but it's where the pant has a fold or two that make a gather almost. And those need to be lying flat. Sometimes the manufacturer was cheap with the amount of material they used. So they open. So these are called depleted pants. Depleted. So the pleats need to be deep enough to really lie flat. That's something to check on. It also seems that I think we need to go back to your early point about the tailor because a lot of our audience is going to be like, oh, tailor, sure, yeah, whatever. And they're not going to actually do it. No, stop. Go back and find a tailor. That's actually, some of my clients, we talk about image too and whenever we start talking about outer appearance, I say, you need to find a tailor. That is your homework for this week. Find a tailor. And not your mom, I mean, some moms are great seamstresses. Don't get me wrong. But when you can see the stitches, you know, you're being cheap with yourself, yeah. And when I first started out finding a tailor, I felt like so nervous, like what if they ruined my clothes? What if they don't speak English? What if we have a horrible mistake? But it was actually easy and it was worth it. And then my biggest concern was, OK, is spending an extra $20 or $40 fixing this outfit worth it? Is that cost effective? If you're going to wear it many times, it's completely cost effective. Just think of it this way. Every time you wear a $300 suit, every time you wear it, the price per wearing goes down. So now if you had a dress like an evening gown that you wore twice, that's an expensive garment. 150 times each. Right, 150 times each. But if you wore that vest multiple times because it's in good condition, fits well, and was of good quality, then pennies per day. I'm going to tell that to my husband the next time he complains about my wardrobe. Honey, pennies per day. It's worth it. Don't put your wallet in your back pocket. Now, I know people are going to be groaning about this, but when you have a relatively thick wallet in your back pocket, it's going to wear holes in the corners of the wallet. So your back pocket is going to have four faded spots from your wallet. And not only that, as you're saying that, I can see the image of my dad's jeans in my head. And there's that square for his wallet and nothing else. I think that's so funny. It's quite adorable in some cases. And if you're in an important job interview, you're having dinner at some elegant place, going on a first date, trying to win the bid over somebody else, these are the times that those details matter. They really do. It is in the details, which, speaking of, there are a lot of details that you're wearing today. You've got lovely earrings, accessories, jewelry, and your hat. Thank you. Tell us a little bit more about what made you choose these and how they fit your image. Well, there is an image tip for women called the power of three. And this is not applicable for men in Hawaii. Men can do aloha, shirt, pants, and that's it. But women, we still are not really equal in all ways, in some ways, many ways, but not always. And so one thing we have to work harder on is our image. So when I look at you, I see the power of three, shirt, vest, pants. Now, I also see noticeable jewelry. We don't want to go beyond seven. So one, one, two, three, four, five is what I see. And that's fine. Six, the boots. Oh, let's switch to camera so you can see. I'm wearing knee-high boots here to help on my motorcycle. Right. But for me, I was wearing a belt. I took it off so I could get my mic under here, but a belt, this, this, this hat. So I have three things happening here. And I've noticed, Pam, every time I meet you, you're wearing a hat. Yes. Now, I do have hair. Some people wonder. I was wondering. Yeah, do you have hair? Yes, I have hair. I have hair. But some people worry that maybe I've lost my hair. No, it's just something that I do. And to prove it off, and I will take off my hat before I start speaking, or perhaps in the middle of something. I remember you doing that now. I wondered why you went from no hat to hat. Interesting. If I think I'm not going to have horrible hat hair, then yes, I might take it off. Just to show that I don't need to be hidden. I don't need to be protected. I can take it off. But I want that first impression to be part of my branding, which includes that Pam Chambers always has a hat. I have 37 hats. I used to have more, but I moved into a smaller space. So you had to downsize your hat collection? Yeah. Only 37 hats, Pam. You're slipping. Some of them don't get out much. Some get out a lot. Like this one gets out a lot. So how did you decide on the hat? Oh, it wasn't a decision. It was something I just started to do, and I liked it. I just have a feeling that when I have something on my head, I'm more stable. I'm not going to blow away or lose my mind or something like that. It's just a thing that I have. But you have a very well-defined brand, very well. So what we mean by brand is that if I saw someone a block away, I would know that's so-and-so. So it's a habitual way of dressing that might have to do with color, shape, style. Always there's always some interesting jewelry. It could be something that is happening with the hair always. But we all should develop a brand so that people see that and know who we are, and they know what they can expect from us. That's actually crucial when you're meeting new people. As you know, Pam, I do struggle remembering people, which is something following your tips has helped me with. But I found it so much easier to remember someone when just by looking at them, they're memorable. For example, one woman that I had in my class, she didn't know she had a brand. But her brand was hair sleeked back in a low chignon, which is a low bun, a very lady-like sleeveless dress with a scoop collar, a wide belt, and a full skirt, and flats. She always dressed that way. And I don't know why she did. She doesn't even know why she did. But you could spot her a mile away. We knew who she was. And when it comes to doing business, that's crucial. Because you meet so many faces who do so many things with so many names, all these people. Your brain actually deletes most of them because they just don't stand out. There was a man in my rotary club a while ago. He passed away, unfortunately. But he was known for a seersucker suit. He always wore, you know what seersucker is? It's a very lightweight, tropical fabric that men would wear with a Panama hat, possibly a bow tie. And it was striped, vertical stripes, and cotton. And it had kind of a pebbly surface to it. A real summer suit is what it was. And he always wore that. If not a whole suit, at least the jacket was seersucker. We knew him. I mean, everyone knew who he was. And I think that's so important. Most people, they're just trying to blend in. They're not wanting to stand out. But it's so crucial for your business, for your brand, for your sanity that you stand out. And we'll be back in just a minute to talk about why. See you then. I'm Ethan Allen, host on Think Tech Hawaii of Pacific Partnerships in Education. Every other Tuesday afternoon at 3 PM, I hope you'll join us as we explore the value, the accomplishments, and the challenges of education here in the Pacific Islands. Truth is, I'm impressed. I haven't been asked such intelligent questions in a long time. Thanks. When I was growing up, I was among the one in six American kids who struggle with hunger. But with the power of breakfast, the kids in your neighborhood can think big and be more. Go to hungarees.org to make breakfast happen for kids in your neighborhood. Welcome back to Out of the Comfort Zone with Think Tech Hawaii. I'm your host, RB Kelly. And I'm here with special guest, Pam Chambers. Thank you, Pam, for joining us. So over the break, we got a little distracted. And we were talking about why some people want to stand out and why some people are a little afraid of standing out. Pam, could you explain your opinion on this? It could be familial upbringing. It could be culture. It could be they stood out and got punished somehow for it. What does it take to stand out? Self-esteem, confidence, not caring a lot about what people might say or think about you, standing out for being chosen. Why would we hide? We're afraid we're not worthy of standing out. We think more might. Or maybe it's not safe. It's not safe. More might be expected of us if we were to stand out. I think it takes practice. I know it did for me. Practice. Oh, I used to be so shy. I didn't want to stand out. So I would hide behind my hair and dress like everyone else. And then I got a job that required me to stand up and stand out. And I slowly made my way to that. So maybe a good tip would be, once a week, a man wears a long-sleeved shirt to work with the sleeves rolled up. He's going to stand out on that day. And someone will say, are you going on a job interview? And he can say, no, I just felt like wearing this shirt that my wife gave me. He can do that. So once a week, you could try something that is out of your comfort zone that would give you practice at standing out. What do you think of that? I think that's brilliant. Because my strategy, when I got out of high school and I wanted to stand out, I went out and I buzzed all my hair off. So it was very effective, a small town. Everybody knew me. Everybody had an opinion. Most people suddenly thought I was a lesbian, including my future husband. So it was very effective as a strategy for standing out. But I know a lot of people heard that story and they just got hives. That is the scariest thing you can think of. So I think it's smart to just take that one step of that, that little thing you can do each week to be different. It could be that you wear a jacket once. It could be you wear an exceptional pair of shoes. Once a week, do something different. And see what it's like. See if you can live through it. You're probably not going to be killed for being different or being exceptional. You'll get some looks. You might get some talking behind your back a little bit. So here's your choice. You stand out or you hide? Yeah, if you stand out, you get to be the one who gets the first opportunities. You get to be the one who makes the first choices. If you hide, nobody sees you. You die alone. It's only a slight exaggeration there, I think. Circulating through space alone. Let's talk about some transformations that I've seen. I'd like to hear that. Okay, well, in one of my classes, the first day of class, there are only 10 people. So we can do this in an evening. Everyone stands up one at a time and we, the rest of the people, write three adjectives that we would use to describe that person and what we imagine their job might be. So what are three adjectives that you would use and what do you think they do for a living? So, and then they have to read those words out loud in front of the class and they can't show any reaction. They just read the words and then there's time later for them to react. So one woman, two people wrote that she works in a plant store, like a nursery. Interesting. Two people, based on what she was wearing in her demeanor. And guess what she is? She is the lead, the principal financial planner for a large company. Not what you would expect. It was a complete mismatch. Completely disconnect. So she was wearing, you may wanna know what was she wearing that would make people think this. It was a denim, loose-fitting jumper. Do you know what a jumper is? It's a- Like overalls? Kind of, well, less overall-y than that. It was something you put on a rear head with a long sleeve kind of thing and it looked like something you would wear in the garden. It was great if you're in the garden, but she's a financial advisor. So she did not like that one bit and she changed. And now, oh my goodness, you should see her now. You should have seen her a week later. I mean, she just really went for it. She started to wear makeup after people thought she looked a little plain. Plain. That's a hard thing to hear. Plain. Would you wanna be three adjectives? Plain. So plain, nursery. Another woman got, what was her role? Stockroom supervisor. She was also the owner of her company. It was an appraisal, real estate appraisal company. So she changed and then guess what? Her husband didn't like it that she changed. He didn't like it. He didn't want her standing out. He didn't want her getting, ooh, you must be the CEO. He didn't want that. So she backpedaled a bit and watered it down a lot. I feel we both have strong opinions about our significant others choosing the way we look. She must have had a good reason. That's all I can say. That's very diplomatic to say. Thank you. I know my husband, when we first met, like I said, he totally thought I was a lesbian. And when we met, I had like a buzz cut. Like it was this long all over my head. So I could kind of see why he thought that. I saw that photo with the sunglasses. With the sunglasses, yeah. Anyway, moving on. Yeah. One guy was a banker, didn't look like a banker. He was a banker, didn't look like a banker. Why? Because his clothes were not of the quality that we expect from someone who manages and handles large amounts of money. He needed to upgrade and he did. And so it sounds like this information might be hard at first for people to hear, but it's something they need to hear. Well, they don't come to my class without being, and this is a level two class. So they don't come without knowing they're gonna get feedback that they want, that they want, they want this kind of feedback. They don't want the results, even though the feedback sometimes hurts. That's right. Now, do I go up to someone I don't even know and say, you know what, no, of course not. I used to give unsolicited feedback when I thought I was helping, but people don't like that. So I don't do that. If someone asks what do you think of this, then I'll say something nice and something constructive and then something nice again. Oh my gosh. The Oreo sandwich. The Oreo, the compliment sandwich, yes. I'm not sure if I wanna ask you for your feedback since we're live on television. Oh no. What? Do you wanna? I'd love to hear your feedback. You have a panicked expression. I won't put you on the spot. No, I'm willing to do this. Okay, I like the power of three. I like the way your sleeves are rolled up. I like the accessories. To me, your jacket looks a tad tight. I agree with you. I've been meaning to go back to the tailor, but it's such a hassle, such a hassle. I need to take my own advice, darn it. Well, it just looks a tad uncomfortable, is what I'm feeling. But you may like it that way, the way it fits. And I love the whole gestalt of RV Kelly. Well, thank you. That was not nearly as painful as I was expecting, my goodness, and neither will it be for you. So, definitely get feedback on your outer appearance, but not feedback from just anyone. Go to someone who's sense you trust. Look at the people around you who do what you do or who do what you want to do. No, I'm not talking Spider-Man, Batman, Boba Fett. I'm talking actual professions. Don't go dressed as a superhero to work, but get that feedback. Yeah, and as far as shopping, some people say I can't afford high quality. Well, do you know, you don't know, but I'll tell you, whoops, sorry, 15 of the clothes in my closet are from Goodwill. And you would never know that those were the Goodwill clothes because they're super good quality, so. I remember you telling me that and I was like, no way. Yeah, way, way, way, way, way, way. So yes, you have to have patience and you have to know what you're looking for, but there are some really good finds at Goodwill Salvation Army, any of the consignment stores, and you pay just a fraction. And you can get creative. You can really find what you like, you can build that personal style. Some of my favorite, more casual clothes now, but some of my favorite things have always come from those little, little tucked away stores that are unique, they're different. Yeah, they're old, but that doesn't mean they're out of date or useless, they're cool, they're interesting. And when you buy from Goodwill, or the Salvation Army, you provide jobs for people who otherwise might not have one because they sort the clothes, they clean the clothes, they mark them, they hang them, they restock them. It's good all the way around. It's a good thing. Yeah, and so you not only get the clothes you like for the price you like at a price where you can definitely afford to tailor them, but you also get to help people and make a positive change. Right, right, right. So we've only got like four or five minutes left. Okay. So give us a little bit of your take on how different personalities should kind of develop their brand, how you can find your personal style. Oh, how can you find your personal, okay. So look at what makes you resonate. So look at what you notice and what you say, wow. Oh, I wish I could pull that off. Look at what makes you do a double take. And notice what it is that made you do that second look and ask, could I picture myself in that? Could I imagine doing that? Maybe not the whole thing, but maybe one of the things there. Interesting. If you're told that you're intimidating, some people are told that they're intimidating, they need to wear softer colors, softer fabrics and softer shapes. If they're perceived as weak and not powerful, they need to wear power colors like what you're wearing that are crisper, have structure and shape and mean business. So it sounds like you're not saying, oh, these are the blanket rules for who you are and what you do. It sounds like it's find what you love and then tweak it here and there to either move up on the intimidation spectrum or down on the intimidation spectrum. Yes. And the color and the style and the shape will all affect that intimidation or approachability factor. That makes sense. I have a black cardigan. I got from my mom that I've never, ever worn just because every time I put it on, I'm like, oh, I look so nice. And that's not a comfortable look for me. That's not how I want to come across. I want to be. You don't want to look like your mom. I love my mom to death, but we have such different styles. Of course. Anyway. So I hope viewers that you have gotten a little bit better an idea of exactly what you want people to think of you, of what you want them to think of your outer appearance because it matters. People make up their minds for you based on what you look like and how you act. So you need to make sure they're coming up with the right conclusion. Now, if you want to learn more about Pam and her presentation classes, Pam, how can they find you? Pamchambers.com. That was easy. Yes. Pamchambers.com. So viewers, I would absolutely encourage you to go visit. She's got a book there. She's got lots of different resources. So please go take a visit. Pamchambers.com. That's it for this week and I'll see you next Tuesday on Out of the Comfort Zone.