 This is fads versus trends. Are you a trend setter or a trad? Trad is a real word. It's not but we'll tell you why What's the other one? Friend, fend, fend. Fend and trad. Fend and trad. So you have paddles. They're not fans You also don't get to keep them. We need them for our CLA presentation Okay Next slide. It just says who we are. Sorry. Where's the thing? I lost it Okay, I just want to go in record. I did not authorize the use of that photo She found it on Facebook and it's like a glamour shot Because also we just we have like a minute introduction, so I'm just gonna say I didn't think the screen would be this big I thought our pictures would be really tiny and you wouldn't mock us It's okay Pinterest fail and all right. So why are we guys know all that already and perhaps we're gonna talk about Trends and fads. How many of you guys have heard of a trend? Oh my gosh, we're trending. Maybe we need to back up How many of you guys have heard of a fad? Or a trad. I love that they're using their paddles already That's $1 Bob Barker. So $1 One thing we want to talk about is why it's important to recognize that things are trends and fads We want to show patrons and the community I use patrons at my library. I know some libraries use customers But I'm just gonna say patrons because that's what I'm used to and and we want to show them that we're relevant We know what's going on in their lives. It builds credibility for us And I'm gonna use Pokemon Go as an example for pretty much everything. So if you don't like Pokemon Go I'm really sorry, but that's a trend. It's a fad. Okay It also shows is that we embrace pop culture and we're not antiquated Like we talked earlier the stereotypes about libraries and librarians if we embrace these trends and fads See we mixed up the words a lot. So we just made up our own words. So trends and fads So what's a fad technically technically, okay? Rumor has it it used to mean for a day fad for a day. I have no like Resources or and back that up and back that up with anything other than it spells fad. So for a day According to the dictionary it means short-lived crazed intense widely shared enthusiasm obsessions mania fetishes and fixations. This is a family-oriented program. I don't need you throwing those words around You know what? Um, I get to describe trend which has to be really boring, of course So it's a general direction which something changing progressing Which is not like me Movement longevity all of that fun stuff. So we kind of have an interesting next slide That was right there all the time, but just as an idea like the whole idea of Fends and trads was basically because there's a lot of over maybe I should Get distracted by the shiny object They overlap a lot of things in some ways are fads a lot of things in some ways are trends So we came up with you know, fends and trads. So if you hear that word, that's either It's probably us messing up, but we just decided it is us messing up But we decided to make them real words so that it didn't look like we were messing up That's a good idea in any presentation So a really great analogy that we have is VHS first DVD verse Blu-ray This is a really professionally done PowerPoint presentation. I need you to know that now Nicole should have never let me make it Because she has already regretted it Okay, so VHS how many of you guys your library still carry VHS for checkout That's two more hands three more hands than I thought I was going to get for look There's a fourth over there. They're like yes How many of you guys raise your hand you carry DVDs And how many of you guys carry Blu-rays? Oh my gosh So I think this dispels what you were gonna talk about. I don't think so necessarily because how many raise your hand if you carry DVDs and Blu-rays See so what we kind of want to talk about in Trends and fads is that VHS was a trend for a really long time That's the way you did it. It always remembered where it left off. It was great. You had those little tags It said please be kind and rewind Everything was around you'd get mad at patrons who wouldn't rewind video anybody under 20 by the way. This is not your future Or your past actually good point and then DVDs came along and what you saw was the medium change and that VHS went one way which there's a cool slide about next You got it DVDs went whoop VH went whoo Sound effects are free But what we find is a lot of time libraries were carry both DVD and Blu-ray players because the medium hasn't gone extinct like VHS in a sense has gone extinct people don't carry them anymore I can't find a VHS except for you for who had them. Good job But VHS and Blu-ray exist in a happy medium together. I don't own a Blu-ray player, but you were telling me You do I do own a Blu-ray player fancy But also that if she can't find the Blu-ray on the shelf She just grabs the DVD like she's gonna watch the latest Marvel Civil War whether it's on Blu-ray or DVD And I think that's true of a lot of our patrons Nobody's saying like I can't check out this DVD. It can only be Blu-ray They might say it'd be great if you carry Blu-ray, but they're not mad if they have to get the DVD Well, some of them are mad, but that's a different library issue Um, okay, so that's fads versus trends a big part of it is how do you decide? What is a Fender Fendi seat? We did it already a fad or a trend Money money money is a really really big stumbling block my library Don't stone me does not carry DVD. Oh Whoa We only carry VHS. No We carry no Blu-rays But we carry DVD and the initial investment cost for us to go back and back purchase our catalogue is Huge so it's a stumbling block for us So that money is as we've learned the root of all evil and the root of me not getting a Blu-ray collection and Then and the other thing you want to think about when you're deciding if you want to kind of latch on to a Trend or a fad is your community needs Pokemon go is so crazy at our library and our library has two gyms and five poke stops and whatever I don't know and I could tell just by the way that the community is acting that it's something that's important to them And that is a really good way to guide you if you want to kind of latch on to something I kind of also look at it like I don't know if you remember those old like workout movies from like the 80s Where they had someone in the middle that or someone that was low-impact so they would do like and then someone was like regular Impact and then someone was like crazy like high-impact that kind of reminds me of how you can React to a fad or a trend you can do low-impact things that we do at our library for something like Pokemon go where we just Want to latch on to something at the moment is just post something on social media that you have a Gym or that you put a lore down or whatever. I'm sorry. I'm really gonna use Pokemon go for every example My husband plays it my seven-year-old plays it. It's around I like the low-impact high-impact. I almost got Cheryl up here to show us demonstrate Cheryl She's a trainer. I'm really good. Anyways 24-hour fitness. Yeah, she does work at 24-hour. She'll get you a discount group rate What's the next slide? Let me see if that was my money slide. Oh Yeah, yeah, there you go. That's my life Okay, so we're gonna get into the interactive fun part of this the great part is they put us on after lunch Which means you're tired and you're full of bad choices that you may be made at lunch You're half asleep, and you were like, oh, I guess I'll come back to the conference Because they're paying me to come here. So we are actually going to present We need help one of three We were supposed to have a panel of librarians. You can look at all these chairs It is just us two they all left. They saw what we were doing and They were like that's a fad. I gotta go Okay, so the first the way we're gonna start is raise your paddle green if you think wait wait wait no wait How many of you have the magical panel that is both green on both sides and red on both sides? I Didn't mess up on any Wait, why he works for me that doesn't count That is terrible. That is a fad. What you guys have is a trend the right paddle How is there just one there should be a double-sided green So red yes, oh double-sided green you agree with everything on the trend side red is for fad Green is for trend We're gonna see what you guys think So the first kind of yes ma'am The first kind of one we're gonna talk about our maker spaces fab labs hack spaces tinkering is that a trend? Which is green and then same time everybody put up your red ones if you're a fad Okay, so Are we just all right? So just if you have a red look see what I'm just picking you when you're coming up here If you have a red paddle come up you do you I'm looking and we need two people with a green paddle Two people with a green sucker with a green paddle come on. Oh, yeah, you guys put all your paddles down All of a sudden it's not a thing they can do I'm gonna have to use descriptors tall guy Right I come down Anissa is that okay? Just come down. I promise you even put on your resume that you were on a panel at future libraries This is helping you Yes, yes endorsed by 24 out of our fitness trainer Cheryl Lee Come up come up. Okay. So why don't we start are those mics live? They are live. So we're gonna go down the row Tell us if it's your name very professional Trend or fad or fend and why you maybe think so in only like 10 seconds because we only have a 30-minute presentation Trend is green go Anissa Because DIY has been around for a very long time already and we're just now embracing it. So I think it's already a trend And I'm Anissa Backwards, that's fine. Yeah, I said trend. I'm Kevin and I think because there's a lot of potential for growth in Hacker spaces and maker spaces My name is Amanda and I guess I I fall somewhere on the fence on that But I guess I I think that for coding we are seeing a lot of uses of shared spaces for coding more so than anything else is how we've Embraced it more so at our library system. So I think that's coding. Yeah I think coding is something that doesn't really require school or the money that people invest in It's most likely a lot of future positions and jobs. So yeah, I think it'll continue. Thank you for your input Also, because you guys did not get up. We're keeping you here the whole presentation Your attendance at this program has allowed us to keep you hostage. Don't leave. Also, there's camera smile Nicole, what do you think about maker movie? So for me the maker movement is more of a trend It's one of the main things about trans as longevity. It's been around for a really long time The first maker fair was in 2006. That was 10 years ago. I know I see lots of oh my gosh Yes, 10 years ago and Sometimes I feel like people think that it has peaked and it's kind of coming down but in 2014 over 250,000 people went to both the Bay Area one and the San Francisco one and over 50% of them were actually with children So kids are growing up with the maker movement from the time that they're, you know in preschool and younger It's also ingrained in our schools in Morgan Hill. How many of you guys know where Morgan Hill is? Oh Thank you Better it's a suburb of San Jose about 10 15 miles south of San Jose It's got a small community feel in that small town small town of 40,000 people and that small town We have one STEM school one STEAM school one music and math academy and one engineering academy and they're all public schools So this is the trend. This is something that you're seeing in schools that they're learning about Maker spaces and steam and all that stuff when they're really young. So that's what I think it's a trend. I Think it's more of a fad only because Space is at a premium Like I would love to have the mix at my library. The mix is the size of my library So it's kind of hard when you work at a smaller library and you're like, I don't really have a space I think more as well that some of the things within the maker movement Like I think we are moving towards DIY hands-on projects I don't think patrons necessarily want to come and just listen to a lecture I think they want to get their hands a little dirty. They want to sew something They want to paint something they want you to Literally read their tarot cards for each individual person who comes to a program and they want that hands-on experience Whereas sometimes I've seen patrons fall asleep in a book talk and I'm like, oh, maybe that's a mess I also think that within the maker space. We have a lot of fads. I think things like 3d printing was like Everyone's got to get a 3d printer and then we have no idea how to use a 3d printer So one sucker librarian has to learn how to use the 3d printer. You are laughing if it's you And so you're kind of stuck and then when you leave that library is kind of like, uh, what are we gonna do? Put it in the closet And it's got like cost and like ventilation like poisoned three people something like that I also think about Drones are really cool. Like I'm starting a drone club. I don't think drones are gonna have I'm starting a drone club I'm gonna give like 10 year olds a drone and see what happens. Are you providing the drone? I am providing the drones, but it's the it's the same kind of thing You're catching on to something really quickly where I don't know if drones in their current form will be around in 10 years so I think parts of what's in the maker movement, maybe coding or 3d printing Some people are really successful and some aren't because we aren't always content experts on what's in our maker movement But it's like the thing that you have to have now to be cool Yeah, yes. All right. What's our next one push the button? Should we make them sit down? No, they're really great. You guys are wonderful. I'm Seeds to fill if somebody would like to come up think about that. No, we're not giving them a choice Oh, we should have got candy. Okay. So our next bad versus trend is app gaming Anybody here play a game on their app? Oh Come on. That's a lie. You are all liars. Is anybody here playing a game on their app right now? Right here. She's on an iPad playing Candy Crush That's terrible. Um So Okay, so put up your paddle Red is if you think it is a fad green is if you think app gaming is a trend Huh to see there's like three four. Hey you in the front row What you doing Johnny you want to come up? I'm gonna come up. No, he looks scared. What are panelists say? Oh That's why we don't have nice things Okay, well, there's only three of you that have red and a perna. Do you want to come up and a perna? Oh, come on. It was red. It was red. It was red. Get up here shyest librarians ever Okay, how about this? How about you three tell us why you're ruining our presentation? It is a trend Whatever you feel like Anything is a discussion. This is where we ridicule you after you say yours. I think it's financially Beneficial, and I think that people see that so I think that you can make money I think yeah, it's a trend because it's games of just moving into the new medium Or the new technology Yeah, I think it's a trend just because people are gonna continue to generate new games and create new apps and People have idle time and like to distract themselves with their phones as we know so I don't think that's changing It's the less mad at Starbucks now when I don't get my drink. I'm like, that's fine. I got another level to go It's true. And so I kind of I feel that the Idea of app gaming is a trend, but the specific games are fads You know what I mean? Like I feel you know, especially Pokemon go. Sorry. It's in my life right now There are over I wrote down I there's this place where you can go on the web that tells you how many people are downloading it in real time and in 25 seconds, what was it over? 2000 people had downloaded Pokemon go. I mean, it's crazy. It's so many people that are downloading it So that's that's something that we can kind of catch on to I also think that they'll peak At some point there will be something that will replace it It was popular when I was growing up. So it only took 20 more years for it to come back And and the other thing too is there you also have talked about accessibility depends on your community Where I where I live in Morgan Hill? There's a lot, you know, not everybody has a smartphone Not everybody's into the app gaming because they don't have the actual device to do it And but they might have their cousins friends brothers old PlayStation at home that got donated to them or got passed down So in that respect, I feel that console gaming is something that at least in my library We support how many of you guys check out console games at your library raise your hand if you check out console games Okay, okay, so like in my library. We have a the Santa Clara County Library We have checked out game console games for oh my gosh five six seven years long time We still have GameCube games to check out. That's how long that's like getting a VHS And so I feel that it really depends on your community if you're talking about app gaming versus console gaming That's I so I think like I feel like the actual games are more fads But the app gaming more people are gonna get smartphones more apps are gonna come out more people are gonna be using them So that's more on the trend wavelengths 62% of smartphone owners when they get their new iPhone 7 the first week the number one thing they download is an app game That's before they do their linkedin profile their Facebook They put a mobile game on their phone to distract them. It's Pokemon go. It's probably not Pokemon go It's whatever is like after Pokemon go But here's the funny part about this. I think that app gaming is a trend for the first year Digital app game sales. That's in-game sales revenue that they make through marketing or in-game purchases will out sell console gaming's and PC gaming's so not together, but app games will sell more than PC games this year And app gaming will sell more than console gaming this year and you didn't share that with me But I'm not supposed to tell you my point. I can't change your point of view But here's here's the good part about it So this is where friends and trads come in because you're kind of like should I should I not should I and you Have to make these big decisions for your library Should I should I not do I get Blu-ray? Do I offer video games? The idea is is that video games as a whole is up These guys aren't eating their market. This isn't VHS and DVD where one will take over the other This is both together gaming as a whole is up a phenomenal percentage Did you know here's a fun fact that there is I love telling these That there is oh It's not large That's okay. I got you looking I want to say something okay We were talking before I can't even read your handwriting, so we were talking before I was talking to Roslyn Somebody that works in my library. We were talking about how many people not only how many people are doing gaming But how many people are watching people do gaming like I didn't realize not only is there The gamers, but then there's like what was it again? What was it what's this week? What's this weekend? League of Legends championship like there are all these people that are watching people Arlene is watching someone play More people watch e-sports worldwide Then Americans watch sporting events or worldwide audiences watch a sporting event So that's how popular digital gaming is. Here's the fun fact 29% of gamers are under 18 years old But a larger percentage of that are over 50 years old So the gaming community is getting older and it's bringing in the younger generation So I think that they're here to stay there's 71 million worldwide viewers for e-sports and that's console PC gaming So it's increasing. So maybe one of the things you have to decide is do I maybe take back? Hey, I should offer video games at my library Should I not is there a market for it and recognizing trends and fads maybe since gaming is increasing You should think about spending a billion dollars on games and then and if you don't want it This is kind of where that low-impact mid-impact high-impact thing comes in Maybe you don't have the money to make a collection But maybe you have some money where you can do some programming it costs a lot less to buy some gaming supplies And do gaming programs and that's an expense that you make one time and you can use it over and over and over again Cool gaming. All right, push the button. Where are we going next? Oh? We forgot this one. Oh, yeah, that's a really good one once again people should not really let me make the PowerPoint about the internet memes Those are really funny. This is of no help to actually remembering the presentation at all Okay All right streaming is um who thinks that I Like they all laugh because they get it to the conclusion at the same time and they laugh together Um is Streaming content music video anything a trend green or a fad red? We need to like when we do this at CLA look at this one That's a trad There isn't a See is there a single one single be that person be that red? It's okay around someone No, I'm just kidding. So much is waving it. So I think they're Friends use it. This is an area where Angela I pretty much agree that it's trending It's trotting. Oh, yeah, do you how many do you services do you stream in your personal life, Nicole? Zero I spend a hundred and twenty dollars a month for direct TV I spend fourteen dollars for a Netflix and Hulu account and I stream free music on Pandora And I spend the rest on video games That's why the industry is growing In the thing with streaming is I feel like before it used to be Not great content, but now you're getting original content You're getting oranges the new black you're getting all these things that are only available through Netflix or Amazon Prime Just the content that is available with streaming has increased in quality and What oh push the button. No, it's that one. Yeah, there you go. Okay. All right. Oh, yeah, here There you go. You got it. Um, I also think that streaming is an area Let's be honest with ourselves. We're libraries suck at it. Okay. Yeah, that's what I was going to say But like really nicely for them Um libraries aren't on the cutting edge and maybe that's our fault of not yelling enough But we everyone in this room had a green or a greeny red, right? But we all know it's an issue It's not something we're doing very well, but that we know is a thing that has to happen So I want to ask the three people on our panel Um I really forgot my question Were you going to ask what? No, I wasn't going to ask that. How do you guys think that libraries can get into this streaming business? I think it's definite challenge because lots of people still have access issues to even having that kind of functionality at home Some people can't even you know still turn on the computer So I think that's going to be a real downside to it And then of course coming up against your administration about buying streaming services SFPL already has hoopla, which is really popular, but I think yeah, it's important to provide more ease of access You need an email address to sign up for hoopla accounts and people don't have email addresses even so just Making it easier for the patron Um, berkeley also has hoopla So we've followed and bought a product that's trying to compete with netflix or amazon prime and stuff But I think part of it is also getting the message out to our patrons that this is even something that they are also getting with their library card You know your library card gets you any museums and all the things that we can tell them so a lot of things Well, no, are you okay? Well, I was going to say hoopla. We that's very nice. I have 10 minutes I think she gave us more time. She's really nice. Um I think the thing with hoopla is we're trying to compete with netflix, right? And this is a really valid point that i'm sure nicole is trying to make before I stepped on her toes is We have indy flicks. I don't like anything on indy flicks hoopla is great, but like I want to watch Zootopia which just came out on netflix and i'm not using hoopla to do that So I have to supplement. I stream all of my digital content on my xbox Right now currently hoopla doesn't have an app although they're working on it So that's the number one way i stream is either through a smart tv or through my digital device And what the library has available doesn't make it easy for me unless I want to sit like in my bed with an ipad two inches from my face Well, I think we have to make a we have to have a discussion and make a decision Do we really need to compete with netflix? Are we ever going to be able to compete with netflix? Should we focus on more specialized things that we can do at santa claire county library? We have something called magichi tv. I don't know if anybody's heard of that anybody heard that Oh, okay, so wait one person. Oh, she probably works with you. They're from the county Okay So that's really cool because you can stream live performances from orchestras and symphonies from all over the world I see mouths dropping We have that Library cards are free What And it's only three thousand dollars. Look at them all not. This is the most important part that they've learned from this entire thing So I don't know if our investment should be more in those specialty things that the library can offer things that they can't Get anywhere else and we just say, you know netflix. We're not going to be able to compete with seven dollars a month Or however, it's like eight ninety nine ninety nine a month in the bottom. I mean, we're not going to be able to compete with that We just let netflix have their thing and we'll have other things and I think and What I like about hoopla though Is the graphic novels and the comic books that are on hoopla it is a great Way to stream those which is also something that we don't necessarily Have great access to it also has a wonderful music collection So while we think of hoopla as maybe the netflix for the library I think you're right. We need to come to that middle ground of this is important What other streaming services can we support so that we're something that's like an amalgam of streaming But we all understand that streaming is Or it's something we're gonna have to use a third party like overdrive or someone else is going to make the investment to Do the streaming and then we just latch on to that Next slide Oh, man, are we gonna have enough time for this one? I don't think I have time Would you give me like a seven minute six and a half five? It's five You haven't even reached five. This is actually like our q&a So here we go, uh red is you don't have it green is you do have it This is gonna be fast rapid fire. You guys got this ready This is for your library system Not personal not personal you cool kids with snapchat How many of your library systems have snapchat green yet? Oh, there's a few greens. How many of you guys have facebook? How many of you guys have google plus? No, look at them all like really quickly flip How many of you guys have a tumblr account? Tumblr is awesome twitter twitter reddit Instagram That one's the best Wait Pinterest Oh, that's a mixed bag LinkedIn Certainly after today everyone's getting a linkedin account with a very professional photograph Yeah of your library with like three instagram filters to make it look appealing So the question is and we've already asked it a bunch today How do you evaluate the right social media for you and everyone's like, how do I do it? What do I do? I think the answer has already kind of been said Focus on what works for you and your community I have a tumblr account, but I use it for my teen group So that's cool. Adults don't have to get to it. It's this totally separate medium and the teens run it for me And I used to like I used to print flyers for people to take Now all they do is take their phone out and take a picture So, you know, and that's something that I just Observations I make while working the reference. How many of you guys still work the reference desk? You can make so I like to people watch so, you know, it's kind of, you know, it's weird But I'm always looking to see, you know, what they're they're always taking pictures of flyers these days So you can learn a lot just from looking at the kids and it's mostly kids and teens Young adults and what they're doing and what's cool Well, here's a fun stack stats stacks of stats Um, so when social media first came out We're like, we can't get this because like older people won't know how to use a computer It's going to be terrible. They'll never get on social media Pew research, which is awesome People 65 and older social media has tripled for them So in 2005 only 2% of people over 65 were on social media in 2010 that went to 10% 2016 the number is currently 35% of people on social media are older than 65 So we're now moving to that social media. It's definitely a trend I can't ask you if it's a trend or a fad because It's a trend you have to have social media in your library But it's which ones do you choose and for me it's about staff and money And it's about your community about knowing what they're using to find out their information Um, everybody's always saying Facebook is old. Don't use Facebook. I use Facebook all the time people are always on Facebook Facebook is still the number one social media app in the world So if you have to pick one, but you guys all have facebook's ready, so yeah Um, this nice lady gave us like a five and she's like venturing on the one You push that button hurry. Let's get to the end of this. Oh my god. This is my favorite Uh once again never have me on a panel Um, is this even going the right way Cheryl? She's not paying attention to me. This is a Curve a marketing curve a meme apocalypse curve bell curve So basically your library doesn't have facebook. You're right here. Oh my god. I gotta catch them are Are Your library has facebook All right, your pippa You have a bunch of different social media and you post content on a regular basis and you have active users You get to be cat meme So When you look at the meme popular the meme Pocalypse bell most libraries sad to tell you Are in the middle You who are here you are probably over here But your library is over here And your goal and part of what futures tries to do is get you to take little baby steps this way How can I bring innovative and ideas to the other side? How can I introduce my library to them? Those are the innovators the middle is the adopters and the end are the laggers you know your system collection program development staffing social media How many of you guys let's let's see if anyone's honest in the crowd. How many of you guys are laggers? She raised her hand because she's nice Okay, how many of you guys are like the adopters you're kind of like in the middle Yeah, no be honest if you're late and you don't have a panel. Yeah, there you go How many of you guys are innovators? You think your library is doing amazing stuff that other people aren't doing and you're a trend setter and rock in the world Shouldn't have put rock in the world She's like no no as a system we have to agree No, don't Don't come back So what we try and do is libraries is a lot of us for financial reasons for staffing reasons We're in the middle and that's kind of where we live based on that. We don't have a cool Entire story floor. Thank you san francisco public for the mix But maybe we have a little tiny room where we shoved a 3d printer in a librarian and we're trying to do cool stuff So Oh, oh look references. I was sorry. No, that's okay. No, no. We only have like 30 seconds. She's gonna get mad at me. Um That was my thought you ruined it. I was so poignant Okay, so it allows you to keep up with your community Just because something is a fad does not mean it's a bad idea Just because pokemon go is going to crash and burn horribly doesn't mean you shouldn't have a cool It is going to burn. Um, just like necko at sumay just like candy crush before it Cat librarians like a thing. Um, it connects you to pop culture. It's what people are talking about We just spent five seconds this morning saying we're shushing librarians This gets us and gets people thinking about libraries in different ways. That's my mantra Think about the library in a different way. We don't just have books We have other cool stuff going on and how do we bring it to people? Um, the bell curve proactive Reactive as librarians. We want to be proactive Even if sometimes it doesn't work out instead of being reactive and then regretting our life choices like what I had for lunch It was good. It was okay. Okay. So after now that we're almost done Good because she's like getting angry. Okay. I'm gonna say one thing in closing Put up your paddle green if you're gonna go to your work and try a fad Just do it. Everyone do green I think that's um, that's Pure pressure. I it doesn't matter. We win. We win. Thank you a round of applause for our hostages I'm so so sorry if you have a paddle Everyone pass your paddle to the right if you're on this side pass it to the right my super awesome friend, andy He's a library assistant And this is heart this way this is like story time all over again Awesome. Thanks guys. We need those back. See us at cla if you want. I'm just stepping all over. Look at all this stuff I have up here