 Welcome to Issues and Answers, a production of the Government Information Service. I'm your host, Jacques Henson Compton, and we are again talking about the National Social Protection Policy and a little bit about its legislative framework. My guests today are Deputy Director of Research at the Ministry of Equity, Social Justice and Empowerment, Dr. Uraliz Dele, and Program Officer, Yulampius Frederick, who side-notes was actually my classmate from the St. Mary's College, we're Class of 1999. Welcome to the programme. Thank you very much. So I wanted to speak a little bit, first of all, about what the Social Protection Legislation is. What is its purpose? Well, the Social Protection Legislation is basically an embodiment for, well, the legal framework for all social protection programmes that is being delivered in St. Lucia. We have currently a very fragmented institutional and policy framework. So the main purpose of that is to pull everything together and to have a coordinated approach to have one focal agency as the main implementer. Is it an existing legislation that has been revised? Well, yes. There was an original draft Social Protection Bill that was prepared by a previous consultancy funded by UNICEF in 2016. So the current revision of that Social Protection draft bill is building on that previous document. Okay, and either of you can speak on this. How will the... What have you decided to address specifically with this new legislation? What are the changes that we made to the national social protection policy? Dr. Dile? Well, I must admit that the legislation is pretty much in its embryonic stages right now. We just looked at the gap analysis. So in terms of exactly what is going to come out, we have not reached that area as yet. But as the PS indicated, the contents of the policy. So basically we expect the legislation to speak to all the areas of the policy. Every single aspect. We're just looking at the gaps, what I'm missing, the information that is missing. And so we could have a comprehensive legislation. And do you have any idea of who the vulnerable groups are that the legislation might... I mean, as you said, it's very early in the development. But do you have an idea of who it might... Well, we know the vulnerable groups in St. Lucia, persons who are disabled or persons with disabilities. We have children looking at the entire life cycle approach and persons in St. Lucia from children. It looks at gender issues, particularly women. We're also looking at the homeless as well. We're trying to incorporate that vulnerable group into the revised document. And of course the poor and vulnerable. So the other thing I want to speak on is something that I understand is called the adaptive shock reform. I don't know, Yulam Piers, if you want to speak on this a little bit. Yes, well shock responsive social protection. That is a special form of social protection where by you are adapting your current social protection programmes to be able to both prepare for, mitigate and respond to covariate shocks. And that is shocks that affect large sections of the population, perhaps even an entire region. So we have things like hurricanes, natural disasters, or even the recent COVID-19 pandemic. So has COVID-19 affected your work in any way? Of course, COVID-19 has changed, well not so much now, but in last year and year before we operated from home. And it was difficult and also challenging for the persons that we represent, the vulnerable groups who come in to us. A lot of our we were reforming and doing our papry certification. And this is a survey that we are doing with our vulnerable people. And we could not go to their homes, we had to be doing that recertification via the phone and so on. There are certain things that you want to see and verify for yourself, but we could not have done that because our interviews were done via the telephone and this is a very important exercise for the ministry because these are the people we represent and we do not want them to be on public assistance all their lives. So we have to recertify and put them through a process of graduation and so on. I'm sure P.S. spoke about earlier. She did speak about that on our last programme discussing the social protection policy. And she mentioned that she doesn't want, well obviously the government does not want everyone to be on the programme forever. We cannot afford it and there are new people we have to onboard and if we have people there all the time and it doesn't speak well for our country, we have to make people productive and in terms of their dignity, people feel better knowing that they can provide for themselves and their families. So if you provide the avenues for them to do that, you'll find that they appreciate whatever it is that they earn better. But specifically, how has COVID-19 affected those same vulnerable groups that you're meant to help? For example, the homeless as you said, the disabled. Well, we have a social assistance programme, a public assistance programme where we give cash transfers to persons and with inflation and the high prices, the amount that we give them obviously is going to bring homeless groceries and food for the family. So I think that is the major issue we have now, groceries. Well, I must say that COVID-19 really turned the spotlight on the Ministry of Equity and Social Justice because this is the only government agency that has the mandate of providing public assistance by under the Public Assistance Act, so you could well imagine that our workload really increased as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic because we now had to introduce vertical and horizontal expansion of our current programmes, vertical expansion in that we increase the amount of the benefit that we gave to our beneficiaries and horizontal expansion in that we brought in a thousand more clients because they were impacted by the effects of COVID, perhaps temporary job loss and different things like that. We also had to spearhead the rollout of the income support programme for non-NIC contributors. We had to spearhead the rollout of the Electricity Assistance programme. We also recently did a second version of the income support programme targeting specifically the bus drivers and liquor licensed COVID holders. So, Ministry of Equity, we became a very, very bustling place of activity, rolling out those different programmes just to be able to reach out to groups of persons who were not necessarily vulnerable prior to COVID-19 but became vulnerable because of the exigencies of the pandemic. We also saw an increase in the request for food items. Almost every day you had persons coming in to request. Just give me some food and some, especially mothers with little children, milk and pampers and so on. So, our Ministry, we had food packages prepared. We had 400 food packages prepared that we distributed to the vulnerable persons. We also did food boxes where we had an arrangement of the local farmers where we didn't give people rice and so on but we gave them provision and chicken and dashi, niam and so on, vegetables. I think that was, I mean, we had them to eat very healthy. And we also had the Hot Meals programme. We had the Hot Meals programme where we went, I think every Sunday, during the lockdown, we went around giving cooked meal to persons who could not help themselves. And I think that's where we reached the largest number of persons because we had thousands of people during that time period. We also assisted by providing hygiene care packages to our vulnerable groups. We used to protect themselves and their families while, even on the lockdown and while, you know, in their normal day-to-day activities. So, some of these activities were sponsored by the government and some in collaboration with donor agencies. And I think the Chamber of Commerce came together to assist with the food boxes. We had the Korean government and so on, the whole food programme. So, UNICEF. So, we were able to, you know, put some packages together to present to those vulnerable people and they really appreciated it. And not forgetting our children's homes. Yes. They were also able to benefit St. Lucie's home, Cornerstone. We were able to present them with some of those hygiene care packages as well. Yes, we gave the homes. And are some of those programmes that you mentioned, like the Hot Meal programme, are those still ongoing or are they finished for now? For now, they are finished. We just finished the income support for legal licence owners and the Ministers operators, the ribbon owners. So, these are projects. We call them programmes where they are projects. They have a start and a finish time. But they keep coming on. We are doing the flow bundle now. We're rolling out the flow bundle where we're giving a package to vulnerable people again for the course of only 20 EC dollars. And they get internet and Wi-Fi and so on. Internet Wi-Fi and cable, sorry. They get 10 local channels, including religious channels, for only 20 dollars. So the government is going to provide that bundle to 5,000 households around the island. Yes. And the coming week, next week, I think the 100 persons will receive the bundle. So that is ongoing. That's quite interesting. So how can one apply or where can they get information for programmes? For the flow. Okay. So the bundle is being operated in the various constituencies by the councils, so persons can go to the office to apply. But within our ministry, we also will be providing, still identifying, 400 households. Households with children especially, who will be returning to school and who need that type of connectivity for them to do their school work and research. But they can go to the constituencies, to their parliamentary rep offices and just apply through there. Now I want to speak specifically on, there's a disability component of the social protection policy from what I understand. Can either of you speak specifically to that? Any one of us. Okay. Well, our Honourable Minister, Minister Joachim Henry, felt inspired by the work of an agency within the region by the name of Mustard Seed Communities. They have established a residential home for persons with disabilities long-term and chronic disabilities that really do not receive support from their own family, from their own relatives. So they have built this community and it's actually established by the Roman Catholic Church. So it's run by a group of persons and they have specialised care for those individuals. So recently Dr Dile and the Minister did a study tour to Jamaica, which is the headquarters of that organisation and they returned to St Lucia to see how can something to that effect be implemented on Ireland. And currently we have begun having consultations with both faith-based organisations and disability sector NGOs, such as the St Lucia Blind Welfare Association and also the National Council for Persons with Disabilities. And we are basically discussing the establishment of a similar establishment. You know how can we put it together and you know we're trying to embrace the concept of inclusion, including those groups so that their voice would be in the entire process. Nothing for them without them. So this is where we are at right now in that process. You did mention consultation with stakeholders. I want to know what sort of information came out, came about as a result of those consultations. And as well I also understand that the Caribbean Development Bank and the CDB conducted a sort of situational analysis of persons with disabilities in St Lucia. Can you also speak about what has come about as a result of that analysis? But I want you to speak on that after the break because we're due for our break. So as soon as we come back, I will pose the question to you again. You're watching Issues and Answers, a production of the Government Information Service. Please stay tuned. We'll be back in a moment. Pamela, I noticed that you built your retaining wall on my property. You'll have to give me my land back or compensate me for that. My contractor isn't dumb. I trust that he will not build anything on your property. Where is your proof? Let's go to court. This situation does not require you to go to court. Looks like we have to go through mediation here. Mediation is a way people resolve conflicts like this. Someone, a third party, comes to speak to both parties. This person is called the mediator. The mediator is impartial. He or she makes sure that communication between both parties is effective and efficient. So the mediator is a judge? No. The mediator is not a judge. Mediators, unlike judges, do not decide cases or impose settlements. Let me get a mediator to handle this retaining wall and that kitchen. Kitchen? Yes. Your kitchen also falls on my land. Let me call the mediator. Welcome back to Issues and Answers, a production of the Government Information Service. I'm Jacques Inston Compton. I'm here with Deputy Director of Research at the Ministry of Equity, Social Justice and Empowerment, as well as Dr... you released the lair? Sorry about that. And Policy and Program Officer, Mr Eulampia Frederick. So before we went on the break, I did ask Mr Frederick a question. I specifically wanted to know about the work of the Caribbean Development Bank or the CDB and their situational analysis of persons with disabilities in St. Lucia. What came about as a result of that analysis? What have you learned? Thank you. Well, yes, the Caribbean Development Bank did sanction disability assessments within borrowing member countries. And St. Lucia was included among the four target countries for that assessment. It started in 2019 and unfortunately COVID kind of put a halt on that. But basically there was a survey instrument administered to get a feel of the number of persons on island with disabilities. And there was a sample population of roughly 4,300 persons island wide. And from that, projections were able to be made. They also noted Senator Morris from Jamaica. He prepared a report and a disability ranking for the different islands. St. Lucia actually ranked 5 in that and they were taking a look at various aspects of infrastructure in place for persons with disabilities, access to concessions and other allowances. A number of different indicators is included in that report. I don't remember too much of the details of the top of my head, but St. Lucia was ranked fair. Number 5 was a ranking of fair in its performance. And there was also 5 out of 10. And St. Lucia likewise there was an examination of the various policy instruments that we have in place from both a gender lens and a disability lens. And again ranks were given for actions taken whether there was some action taken, no action taken at all or excellent action. And you know it was really interesting to know that St. Lucia has no gender policy and likewise St. Lucia has no disability policy. So that is these things are going to become priority even with the whole reform process. And I guess even in looking at your faith-based organizations and the disability sector NGOs that we are currently engaged with in trying to establish a home for persons with disabilities, I know some of these issues are going to come up as well. But I think the information from there, I think they also had focus group meetings with persons with disabilities. So you're able to get first hand information from the persons themselves who the report is speaking to and I think that from the core of information that of that report from CDB. And I also wanted to speak on the stakeholder consultations that you have had. Just speak very briefly on that maybe what you've learned. I wouldn't call them stakeholder consultations but we've realized that in those countries it's really the church that does that kind of humanitarian work when it comes to persons with disabilities, with the elderly and so on. If you look at the Merion Home in St. Lucia and St. Lucia's home and some of the homes, Villa St. Joseph in Denry and so on, you'll realize is the Catholic Church that's really, you know, handling operating those areas. So we decided that and also in Jamaica as Mr. Frederick said, the Catholic community is really a Catholic based community that speaks to the spirituality of individuals and so on. Because they believe that even the most critical or severe disability that person has some sensory skills that can be improved and so on. So when the minister and I returned, we decided that we're going to have meetings with religious groups and as Mr. Frederick said, the council for persons of and for disabilities, we also had the Blind Welfare Association. We've had one meeting. Our next meeting is on Monday, Tuesday, next week. What dates? Tuesday would be the 23rd. Yes, so we had a healthy discussion on what we should do, where we should go and I think minister is very concerned about the abandoned persons with disabilities and persons with chronic disabilities because what we've noticed is that if you are chronically disabled, they just have you laid on a bed all day every day and no rehabilitative activities and so on for these persons. So he's really concerned about those persons in particular. And so we're holding, we're still in his embryonic stages. So we're holding discussions as to where we go, what can the church do or what can civil society do to assist those persons, especially if they're chronically disabled. And there are a lot of parents who do not want their disabled children and they are being abused and so on and we need to care for those persons who cannot speak for themselves. Do we have a high prevalence of abuse of the disabled community? Well again, our research is very poor and limited in that area but when you go to the communities, you would hear instances of those things happening. You see them on the streets, even some of our homeless people on the streets, you see how they are being treated and so on and just feeding somebody doesn't mean that you're taking care of them. They need more than just food, clothing and shelter. They need the love and the care and so on and their attention. And psychosocial support is that also something that you are thinking about? For the parents also and we know that taking care of a person with disabilities is very expensive and so we have to think of ways that we can support those parents. We have a child disability grant that our ministry gives two persons well not everybody but it's the number is limited to about 312 persons that we support every month until the children get to age 21. But then we have so many on the waiting list that we cannot support. And this is as far as it goes in terms of assisting persons with disability. So we really hoping that we can go beyond just having assistance for children but expanding it to persons in St. Lucia with disability. How can one apply for the child disability? Yes. Well it's a grant and the child has to be well I think it's from moderate to severe have a moderate to severe disability and the doctor. There is an assessment that is done by a doctor but right now we have reached the limit and we have a lot of people on the waiting list, over 100 persons, parents with children who are waiting to come in and our funds are limited and this is why we really trying to do something else. We hoping that the policy and the legislation can guide us in terms of how we either increase the number and move beyond just children. And you've mentioned as well that you're looking to provide support to the parents of persons with disabilities. Is that just parents with caregivers in general? Caregivers, yes. And in some countries they are provided with shadows. These are persons who come to assist them. There are WhatsApp groups and so on that is formed for persons, parents or caregivers for persons with disabilities and you have power, house meetings, you have different the sessions are not based on one particular topic but you recognize, you do a needs analysis, so you recognize the areas that they are weak in. Some children with disabilities have special feeding needs, feeding tubes and so on, so maybe one session might just be on how do you feed those children, how do you care for them, or just normal psychosocial support, encouraging the caregivers and so on. So it's a range of topics that will be addressed but we hoping to have all of them in groups and organize using media, maybe even through GIS have those power house sessions for them. As you mentioned us actually, either of you can speak to this question. Do you have any sensitization campaigns? Not yet, as I said we're still in the planning. This is one area. A lot of the religious leaders have agreed to go take communion to some of those persons to sing to them, have prayer sessions with them also and this is one of the areas they have identified that and I think there is a special day that the Catholic Church takes all those disabled people to church and they feed them and have a special mass for them also. So we hoping we could make a big event out of that. I think it's coming in November? Yes. Later this year. So the churches will be going out to the communities, provide some form of counseling, a lot of the religious leaders are counselors themselves and I'm counseling for the caregivers, have little prayer sessions little motivational talks with them and you know sometimes just the fact that somebody visits your home and shows that somebody or she cares, it helps a lot. It brings some comfort to you. I'm sure. We're very close to the end of the program. So is there anything else that both of you want to address before we go off air? Well I could say that another great suggestion that came out of our initial consultations with the faith based groups and the disability sector and NGOs was how do we forge a partnership with mustard seed communities. You know at the moment mustard seed communities is not really able to establish a franchise establishment in St. Lucia because they recently established in Africa and some other Latin America countries. So at the moment what was suggested was that our St. Lucia caregivers could go over to Jamaica and to get some type of training some kind of internship to learn and to observe and to understand the special care that is needed and so return to the island with that specialized skill set and applied here. Also they were welcome, they agreed to the idea of visiting St. Lucia, visiting our plant and seeing our operations, making any suggestions, taking a look and analyzing our systems to give suggestions as to how we can also improve. And another point I wanted to raise going back to the legislative reform is that we want to have the establishment of a social information system and also a technical committee. Now that technical committee would provide the guidance and the advice and the support needed so that we could basically tie loose ends between social protection programs and that there would be better synergy between the different programs. So these are some of the next steps for those different interventions that we are looking at. And we have a few seconds left. For me Mr. Federico and I are actually doing a course on social protection and for persons with disabilities for university in Germany and actually the final product is a formulation of a policy for persons with disabilities for me the sore point is that we do not have a registry of persons with disabilities and I'm hoping that we have a national registry where we know all the persons with some form of disability in St. Lucia so that we can better care for them. Coming out of the CDB report I think they estimated about 20,000 persons in St. Lucia with some form of disability. I have not done any research but I rather suspect that there may be more because I don't think they looked at the elderly and persons new amputees and so on. So a huge area, there was a huge gap so on every day by day we have all these accidents and so on taking place. So we're hoping that we can put that policy together by September, October that's our final assignment that we'll be working on together. The university has agreed for us to produce that document together given the size and so on of St. Lucia. So something good is coming out of it and I'm hoping that persons with disabilities will be better off next year around this time. We'll at least have more information on them and make them a priority among our vulnerable people in St. Lucia. Well that's good to know and I'm sure a lot of persons in vulnerable groups are waiting with bated breath for this to be rolled out. So I want to thank you very much Mr. Frederick, Dr. Delay for coming on the program and I hope you come again when there are more developments with the framework and the upcoming policy. Thank you. You're watching Issues and Answers a production of the government's information service. Thank you for watching. We'll be back on another day.