 All right. So, five and six. Five is on the initial conversation and goal setting, and my question was about that dialogic interview. Thoughts on that and something else you maybe use? I don't know. I wondered if anybody had to use that before when I did that coaching project with UNL. We were following Jim Knight's protocol, so we did do that. It's hard to not reply back. Has anybody else ever done it? There was a presenter at maybe NDLA just this last spring, and she had to do it for like three minutes is all. Just ask and listen to your partner, and without injecting even three minutes was hard, and this was like, oh my gosh, 15 minutes worth of, but it's good for you or me. Yeah, because you always want to my tendency is to always jump in and try and fix by offering a lot of suggestions. So, to intentionally just keep my mouth shut and have to listen to what they have to share, that is a good practice for me. I always want to relate to them, and you can still do that because you could ask the same questions on your turn or whatever, so then you could kind of make that relate like, well, yeah, like you said, Chris, I like to do this too or whatever when it's my turn, but you're right, it's hard not to just jump in. I think a lot of people like to be listened to, and it's hard to always do that, so like we had talked about in our last chapters last week just about how important that building relationship says, and that's how you're gonna get your door in, or your foot in the door, and so I think this method would be really effective for relationship building, especially with someone you didn't know super well. That's what either Stephanie or Samantha, they had wrote their answers, and one of them said that if you're, especially if you're coming in with someone you don't know, this is a great way to build that relationship, to kind of get to know them. In a way, it kind of reminds me of that whole pause, paraphrase, pause part of cognitive coaching, you know, and it's maybe that pose that question to get even deeper more out of them, them thinking it and being in the moment. I know when I do those coaching conversations, all I have in my hand is my presentation remote that has a timer on it, so that I know what it is, and then nothing else. When I go into the room, that's all I take into the room, so that I'm there and focused in that moment on just them. Nothing else is happening, but that's also something you've got to remind yourself of too, is stay in the moment, stay focused on that, and if your mind starts to want to try and bring it back to listening to what they're saying and not thinking of that paraphrase as they're talking. Right. Anything else on that? What about the goal setting? I like smart goals. There's different acronyms for what smart means. When I do this with teachers, I normally, so it's within the context of teachers working with students as well, helping the students to create smart goals. I like the A instead of attainable to be agreed upon, and then giving feedback on student goals. It allows me, the teacher, one of these things on this rubric of specific, measurable, agreed upon, relevant, timely. One of those things actually gives me, the teacher, the ability to say, yes, I think this is a good goal or maybe provide some deeper feedback. But otherwise, that all looked wonderful. I like that. Agreed upon too. I also like the, I heard that. Basically that template that she has on page 65 as well as something to give to them, because that's almost like, if you have that, they can write on that, Google Doc, whatever. That way they have a copy of it, boom, right there, right in front of them as well, some way, somehow, maybe it's, they fill out in a Google format, Google slide, Google drawing, whatever. Kind of make it your own, make it their own, and then they have something there that they can always look back on to remind themselves, it's hanging in my classroom. And the kids know this is what you're trying to go for as well, so that kids can hold you accountable for it too, rather than just being hidden. Something she talked about, and I think that we often do is set goals, but we don't come back to them. Right. And you know, so, and then in the next one, with giving the feedback and the debrief, bringing it back to the goal. And I think that that's really an important part of goal setting is not only to do it, but to see how you, how you come out with it or to check back in type of a thing. So as part of the pilot, we asked educators to set some goals. I was just going to pull up one of those gold sheets. And I bet I could even pop it into our chat. And then you can see it too, if it's accessible to you, it is. Are there changes that we'd want to make to it? And that's a specific question. I guess I'm just reminding everybody what we've done inside of the pilot more than anything. We asked them to look at those priority things on the rubric, the observation rubric, identify what were priorities, meaning not necessarily what I feel is most important. It could be what you feel is most important, or it could be just the thing you want me to focus feedback on. And then for them to set a goal, this one, it looks like was between first and second semester. You know, I like the thing about the smart goal is how it breaks it down. I agree. You know, and sometimes both setting is difficult for teachers because they want to accomplish the world or it's something too minute, you know, whatever this, if you kind of go through this, so if we could do a combo of laying this out with that, maybe. Nick, can you share just for a second, because my chrome is spinning and my safari won't open. I'm going to share a screen, just so I can see it and remind myself what that looked like. You probably have to give, can you do it or not? You can, Molly. You can now. Okay, good. Sorry about that. But Peg, this was pulled directly from what you did. I think you guys at ESU 10 had a two pager. And then for our workshop that we did as part of the pilot, I turned it into a one pager. And so again, identifying what those priority look for is were and then blended learning goal. I just added a note that maybe we need a smart rubric and as part of the goal setting procedure, remind folks that we want smart goals. But I still like that second question. What support would you like to accomplish your goal? I personally did use those when then engaging my educators and follow up conversations. I think we got them shared with all our ESU contacts too, if I remember correctly. At least that was the instructions, whether or not people did it. I don't know. So what does Catlin Tucker use when she's setting up goals? Is she using something like you guys did with that rubric? Because that really gave ideas about, I think there were 10 different possible goals people could work on. Or is this just out of the blue? She's sitting down with people and trying to give them some ideas in terms of what they might want to try. You know, sometimes that rubric felt overwhelming to me, but I also felt like it directed people to kind of hone in on something they wanted to work on. So I don't know if we want to lose that either. I just wonder, you know, how do we actually get people to move in their goal setting if they don't even know how to how to move? I wondered that too, Rhonda. I did when I was reading. I mean, you're asking them to set a goal. And in that initial conversation, I'm just supposed to listen. And so now, I mean, that is, I guess, when I read it, I guess I'm assuming that these educators know what blended learning is, right? And if I'm talking to somebody who doesn't, then I guess that means that we needed to have some more conversation before setting a goal. Go ahead. I think this goal setting piece is after that initial conversation, you're getting that conversation to know you now we're going to go into goals. Where do you want to go? And, and I think, Rhonda, those 10 that we came up with, was that of a list of, aren't there like 30 total or something like that in that entire On that original Highlander document, I think there were like 40 or 50 different look for, you know, kind of trying to narrow it down to those 10 that we felt were most important. So I think it takes it from really overwhelming for the teacher. We kind of focused it on here are the things we really want to look for. Once they get those, then we can go and look at some others. I'm my guess is Catlin probably doesn't have something like that. And that's just to get on mine. It's maybe just Catlin's come in, done her first thing. And then they said, Oh, I want to work on station rotation. Right. And there could be a focus of the whole school like this year, we're going to focus on station rotation. And so you know, your goals are going to pertain to something like that. But like Rhonda said, so the other part, before we did the goal setting, we asked them to look at those 10, 10 different things and do a quick self assessment. Right. And so they did a self assessment ahead of them setting their own goals. And as part of that pilot, we I think I think I know I've had my folks do that self assessment a few different times. And I think we've incorporated into our pilot experiences a couple times as well. Right. I think too, you need something to drive what that goal would look like, knowing on what professional development they had, or if you did the self assessment, or maybe I'm having that rubric or sorry, those 10 something if they didn't, or just a whole school focus of this is what, you know, we're going to try or something. So then another good thing of the goal too is if they say, Oh, now, I'm really focusing on this, this time you come in and observe me. Well, what happened with your original goal, you can kind of bring it back to that. How have you done with this? That way keeps them a little more focused rather than, you know, squirrel, you know, going after the next thing that they maybe see in reading in a blog or seeing somebody else doing that's not there. Oh, I want to try that. You know, that's that shiny new thing that they want to go and do. I want to bit Moji classroom. Yeah. I want to bit Moji. Yeah, I was just glancing ahead. And I haven't read the whole look yet. Some of you have. She does have a blended core teaching rubric in chapter eight. So not not saying that she necessarily uses it, but it would be something that to look at. She also has the Highlander priority practices in chapter eight. Yeah, she references Highlander and then Jim Knight quite a bit throughout the book. That's nice, because that's kind of what we're familiar with. Exactly. Exactly. Right. I'm going to throw something in the chat. It's nothing fancy at all. But it's just a Google doc that I have used for, you know, with teachers when they're doing smart goals. If anyone just save you five minutes of time, if you're having people fill out smart stuff, feel free to use it. It's nothing, nothing fancy, but will it make us smarter? No, probably not. I like it. It's pretty too. I like pretty. I don't do pretty well. And it's good. Thanks. And this is one we use specifically for coding training. So feel free to, you know, alter it, but at least give Matt to go by. I like that. Thanks for sharing, Stephanie. Thanks, Steph. All right. On to coaching the initial observation and debrief. So we've done our goal setting. And now you're going in to observe and the debrief. I don't know what the questions were, but you may have thoughts. How might the partnership principles help coaches avoid resistance in their work with teachers? How could you as a coach employ the partnership principles in this early stage of coaching to put your teachers at ease? She was just really transparent with the teacher and also with the students, you know, because she described how this partnership was going to be long term. So she also visited with the students ahead of time, because they are always curious, who is this person, what do they want? And then she used that as a learning opportunity to talk about, Hey, just like in sports, that you continue to have someone help you improve and grow. And that's something we do the rest of our lives. And so I thought that was a great way to introduce a coach into the classroom. And then she did the same thing just with the teacher, where she would continue to be clear about what are we going to do? Here's the documentation I'm going to use to put notes in. And then, you know, when they were doing their debrief, she gave the teacher time to clarify if something was missing. So there was nothing hidden about it was just very open. And I liked how she said she wouldn't take notes during that conversation either. She did that afterwards. And also, those are just some nice tricks for any kind of coaching that I thought that would really be helpful. It doesn't just have to be in technology, but other types of coaching to to be really clear about what our role was and communicate with students. I think they're kind of forgotten. And I like that part about not taking notes while you're talking, I thought about that initial interview, how, you know, you're really intent on listening and something I need to be better at. And then when she followed up with not doing that following up afterwards, I think that that's a great habit or practice to get into, even, you know, if you had a phone conversation or something like that, but afterwards to sit down and kind of process that out by writing your thoughts and stuff down then is a good idea. I liked that too. That's a great point. I agree. Any kind of conversation time to reflect. Right, right. As I think about the observations that I've done, I mean, we use that Google form and it poked it into Google Doc with Autocrat and it was shared then automatically to the teachers. But so I feel like I was fairly good. I'm talking personally. And so collectively, we were fairly good at getting some some feedback into a Google Doc. But I personally wasn't good at engaging folks in the debrief conversation. There just wasn't time built into it. I was trying to observe eight, 10 different teachers in the span of a day, and then didn't have dedicated time to be able to engage folks with that debrief. I mean, yes, the Google Doc was there and folks are invited to reply to comments and at times people did. So that's a good opportunity. But man, I'd love to do a better job of having an actual conversation with somebody where you can revisit the goal in relation to the observation. Absolutely. I had that problem too. We would have time for just very like two or three minutes of just some verbal debrief. And it wasn't like this at all, where the teacher really was involved in it, like you said. And I had the rubric in my hand, it was the paper one and would I said, I'll send you this later, but I just needed time to kind of, you know, get my thoughts together before I filled it out electronically, and you'll get it and I'll send you some comments. But that's not doing it justice, I don't think. I had one school they were black scheduling and I don't know if that helped or not. But maybe it's because I saw fewer teachers in a day, because they were on the block. But when the gal helped me set up the schedule, we actually scheduled in debrief time. And that made such a difference because the schools that it wasn't scheduled in, it was like, I'll catch you and I like, oh, I got to run to practice. And I got it, you know, so we, that was a huge learning thing for me is if it was scheduled in, it made a difference. And I think the first time I had already sent off whether they had had time to look at what we had wrote, we just kind of did that, you know, how'd you think the lesson went, you know, this and that type of thing. But it's hard, but once it was scheduled in there, I couldn't believe the difference of the relationship, the progress of the teacher, everything because of that debrief time. Yeah, we scheduled ours into we would do like a day of actually observe, you know, doing observations. And then the next day we would schedule the debrief. So then we could kind of look over everything and look at the rubric and all that kind of stuff first. And it was very helpful. Although after reading this book, I realize I think I probably talked way too much and should have been listening a little bit more. I don't, I think the debrief could have been even more effective if I would have been better at what I was trying to accomplish. Yeah, a lot of the times when I went out to observe their planning periods where I met with them in the morning, and the classes that they taught were in the afternoon, and I would have to see two people during the same period. You know, so you're you're jammed up there and don't have the time for that. And yeah, would that have helped? Oh, yeah, I think it would have. But those that I was able to observe, and then go talk to, where their planning periods were later, made a little bit of a difference too. One practice that Rhonda and I implemented was take going in doing that classroom observation. Rhonda hand wrote hers and then she transcribed them and sent them out and I use notability. And just email directly from my iPad, what I had captured, then we scheduled a zoom session with those teachers afterwards, because you're right, their schedules didn't accommodate what what we could do. And that seemed to work okay, to have that zoom session. But granted, these are teachers who know us. And we have that existing relationship with them. Was that an expectation from the administrator Chris or was that just offered and did people what percentage of individuals wanted to have that feedback conversation with that was not an option. They had to do that with us. We even we even set it up with one of the secondary principles that when we did the debrief with that teacher, he came down and watched her class. While we took her to another location just went over some things. And then we discovered two of the teachers, the second in the second semester, they had the one was doing a study hall and this it was his prep. So we after we did the observation, we debriefed with him and then he went in and watched her study hall. And she went into his classroom, and we were able to debrief with her. So you just have to be creative at times. Sure. Yeah, I think the debris and she talked about the importance of that. And I think that that's kind of when you bring it back to the goal and those kind of things. And so having that time for debrief is really, really important. No, I think back to communicating with the students on it a little bit, too, is them being comfortable, especially the younger kids, if you're going in that k three, four ish area, somebody new in the room. Oh, I was that, you know, so that it's almost like it's another person in there. It's like, it's just notice again. You know, it's, it's kind of funny when I was up, oh, Otis, you're blended today. Yep. You know, the kids even knew me by first name. It's, you know, they get so comfortable to be there. You need they need that comfort, comfortability with the teachers with the observer, whoever it is that may only be in the building, like us, once every three weeks, four weeks, whatever it might be. Um, on that on page 71, I, I really liked that the note catcher that she used, or a form of that, something like that because, well, first of all, it's linear. And that's how I think, but I like where you put your notes right beside it. And you could change that up and put the questions in to whatever you wanted them to be. But I even just liked the, you know, talk about gives talking points afterwards for the debrief, you know, how's the layout, the composition of the class, all those kind of things. So I really liked that note catcher. And I thought, Oh, I want to download that and, and do something similar to that. I got, I got to jump in another meeting. I must have been out of the loop because all of a sudden I'm hearing note catcher all the time and hadn't heard that term. Oh, I don't know if that's what she used, but that's what Susan just said today. And I'm like, I just heard that a few days ago, too. Like, I like it. Yeah, that one too kind of gets because I can't remember where I heard it. But it's the not only the writing of the notes, but then the drawing, you know, almost sketch note ish, yeah, things as well with it, kind of getting some of that so you can, you know, drawing those things out and have some of that piece there. Well, and even if I, and like I said, you could change it up, but email it to them beforehand and say, this is what I'm going to be based on our, your goal and our conversation, you know, the pre interview or whatever. This is what I'm going to be looking for. This is what I'm going to use to take the notes and I'll share it with you afterwards. So then once again, you know, completely transparent and their comfort level is there too. So anything else?